Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[TakomaSnark]

27 minutes ago, scriggle said:

I think it was apathy. He didn't want to run the crematorium but was too much of a milquetoast to say so and do something else. Harry was just taking advantage of the situation.

[ML89]

On 10/4/2022 at 11:25 PM, TakomaSnark said:

Criminal Minds was just so phony. From the notion that the BAU is regularly on the ground, guns ablazing to catch a serial killer to the 'so-shallow-it-makes-George-Huang's-diagnoses-seem deep' round robin of perp of the week 'profiles.' The show was never truly interested in 'criminal minds,' just torture porn. 

I would love to know if the producers of Criminal Minds paid off Stephen Cannell because, the few eps of Criminal Minds I've seen, it looks like a really close copy of his UNSUB from the late 80s (which is a better show, frankly).

[Xeliou66]

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oh, good. "Vacancy" with screechy Alice just started on WE.

But the cold open really was suitably creepy and set up well.

Vacancy has probably my favorite cold open in CI history, it was awesomely creepy with the snow forcing the girls into the dumpy roach motel and the scenes inside the motel. It’s too bad the rest of the episode didn’t live up to the opening’s potential, while the search for the killer was good, there was just something about his psyche and motive that didn’t quite add up for me - he was very disturbed but it seemed odd he would viciously kill a random woman just because his mother was murdered, if anything it seems like he would hate men who kill women. It could’ve been an awesome episode but something just didn’t click with it, plus Deakins and Carver were barely in it, and the killer confessed way too easily. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, scriggle said:

I think it was apathy. He didn't want to run the crematorium but was too much of a milquetoast to say so and do something else. Harry was just taking advantage of the situation.

Yeah. And Goren basically surmises as much during the interrogation of Russell when he goes over some of the brochures that Russell had, of other various occupations.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, ML89 said:

I would love to know if the producers of Criminal Minds paid off Stephen Cannell because, the few eps of Criminal Minds I've seen, it looks like a really close copy of his UNSUB from the late 80s (which is a better show, frankly).

OT: UnSub is on DVD - with a bunch of other short-lived and/or SJC pilots that were not picked up. Another example being a series called Broken Badges...

It also features a few episodes of successful SJC shows, including Hunter and Silk Stalkings (the latter of which, BTW, was Cannell's longest-running series (8 seasons)).

Here is the set:

https://smile.amazon.com/Prime-Time-Crime-Stephen-Collection/dp/B003QTDH4S/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=prime+time+crime+the+stephen+j.+cannell+collection&qid=1665379107&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjkzIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=crime+time+on+pr%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-1

Alas, it appears to be out of print; a used copy is about $42. But there are a ton of shows on the set (I have it! Bought it when it first came out!), so it would still be pretty good in terms of value. Scroll down, and you'll see a ton more shows included, including Jeff Goldblum in another police show, Tenspeed and Brownshoe.

[ML89]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

OT: UnSub is on DVD - with a bunch of other short-lived and/or SJC pilots that were not picked up. Another example being a series called Broken Badges...

I bought it when it first came out too! If you're a Cannell fan, it's well worth it.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Alas, it appears to be out of print; a used copy is about $42. But there are a ton of shows on the set (I have it! Bought it when it first came out!), so it would still be pretty good in terms of value. Scroll down, and you'll see a ton more shows included, including Jeff Goldblum in another police show, Tenspeed and Brownshoe.

Oh, we loved Tenspeed and Brownshoe!

[WendyCR72]

"Albatross" from S6 with Maureen Pagolis and her dirty hubby is just ending on WE. And one thing I don't get is just why ol' George was not giving his wife up in terms of the judge being offed, while he was the target.

With all the recording Maureen had going on, he had to know his wife tried to murder him. I'd think he'd want to shout it from the rooftops, to maximize her humiliation, etc.

The only real hole to me in what I think was a good episode otherwise. It was an interesting angle in having Eames admire her so much, only to realize even "heroes/heroines" can take great falls.

[Xeliou66]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:00 AM, WendyCR72 said:

"Albatross" from S6 with Maureen Pagolis and her dirty hubby is just ending on WE. And one thing I don't get is just why ol' George was not giving his wife up in terms of the judge being offed, while he was the target.

With all the recording Maureen had going on, he had to know his wife tried to murder him. I'd think he'd want to shout it from the rooftops, to maximize her humiliation, etc.

The only real hole to me in what I think was a good episode otherwise. It was an interesting angle in having Eames admire her so much, only to realize even "heroes/heroines" can take great falls.

That was one of season 6’s better episodes, as I’ve said before season 6 is my least favorite season because of all of the soapy crap and how they started changing Goren particularly and how they changed the whole style of the show, it just didn’t work at all. But Albatross was pretty good, it was an interesting case with a dramatic opening, and I also thought it was interesting how Eames admired Maureen but then that faded as she realized her involvement. George was an epic sleaze, maybe he didn’t want people knowing just how slimy he was and that’s why he didn’t turn on Maureen but it seems like most people had a good idea of it anyway. 

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

George was an epic sleaze, maybe he didn’t want people knowing just how slimy he was and that’s why he didn’t turn on Maureen but it seems like most people had a good idea of it anyway. 

Yeah, as you say, most already knew. Voters that were interviewed, Faith Yancy (the Nancy Grace clone), and almost everyone else. Maybe ol' George just didn't want to lose out on the lavish lifestyle Maureen had provided for the bulk of her career?

It's the only reason I can see for George staying mum.

I, too, liked the opening with the historical reenactment gone wrong. It was different.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I, too, liked the opening with the historical reenactment gone wrong. It was different.

I'll never say no to Bowie.

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'll never say no to Bowie.

Seems all I heard was Freddie in the bit of the song used. But then, Mercury and Bowie's voices did blend!

But the shooter had to be GOOD, timing it so well to the "fake" shooting. (I know, explained as a Special Ops guy, but still!)

[WendyCR72]

God, "Offense" is also another episode filled with awful, self-serving people, including the prosecutor played by Andrew McCarthy. (On now on WE.)

Even the dead victim - who had a crisis of conscience due to her faith - was lying about a criminal incident.

The murdering mom played by Peri Gilpin was wrong, but I can also see how she felt backed against the wall for her son, since Gene the prosecutor was getting off on the media hype vis a vis the football team, as was his witchy wife, and the other players seemed to come from affluence, and the poor kid would take the fall for a lie.

But Falacci yelling at Ross was entertaining, as usual!

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

God, "Offense" is also another episode filled with awful, self-serving people, including the prosecutor played by Andrew McCarthy. (On now on WE.)

Even the dead victim - who had a crisis of conscience due to her faith - was lying about a criminal incident.

The murdering mom played by Peri Gilpin was wrong, but I can also see how she felt backed against the wall for her son, since Gene the prosecutor was getting off on the media hype vis a vis the football team, as was his witchy wife, and the other players seemed to come from affluence, and the poor kid would take the fall for a lie.

But Falacci yelling at Ross was entertaining, as usual!

Yeah Offense had a slew of awful people - the prosecutor and his wife really pissed me off, they were really the ones responsible for the whole thing IMO, he was just using it to advance his career. I didn’t feel much sympathy for the killer but I can see how she was in a tough situation and the victim wasn’t very sympathetic either. I don’t think there was a single sympathetic character in the episode.

I wish Falacci had been kept on - I liked how she was outspoken and would clash with Douchebag Ross some. She added a spark. Wheeler was duller that dirt and did nothing for me. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I wish Falacci had been kept on - I liked how she was outspoken and would clash with Douchebag Ross some. She added a spark. Wheeler was duller that dirt and did nothing for me. 

I loved Falacci! Second only to the great Alex Eames.

[Xeliou66]

6 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I loved Falacci! Second only to the great Alex Eames.

Falacci was a huge improvement over Wheeler, it’s a shame she was only on for 5 episodes. Wheeler was lifeless. Of the female detectives, Eames is obviously the best, I liked Barek pretty good as well, and Falacci was good. Stevens and Wheeler were both completely dull, as was Bishop. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:25 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Falacci was a huge improvement over Wheeler, it’s a shame she was only on for 5 episodes. Wheeler was lifeless. Of the female detectives, Eames is obviously the best, I liked Barek pretty good as well, and Falacci was good. Stevens and Wheeler were both completely dull, as was Bishop. 

Seems Falacci can be compared to another temp on another Dick Wolf show, Nina on FBI. Some like her better than Maggie, the main female lead, and don't want her to leave once Maggie returns.

Makes me wonder if that will happen or if Nina will just go poof like Falacci.

It was odd that the show had Wheeler find Falacci's forgotten "Princess" coffee mug on her desk. I wonder if that was supposed to lead to anything or not? Oh, well.

[Xeliou66]

Betrayed was just on, I like the episode despite it being predictable, but my god Ross was such a dickhead, even more than normal in this episode, he was such a rude and condescending grade A asshole to Goren/Eames in this episode. Very abrasive with them for no reason, screaming at Goren at one point and he had a total blind spot for Kathy. He should’ve taken a step back from the case, but he was an unprofessional douche as usual. I just really can’t stand Ross.

The episode had a couple of flaws - I was unsure of how Kathy had been able to set up such a complex plot while also dealing with the police at the same time. And I had a hard time believing no autopsy was performed on the judge that was Kathy’s previous husband that she poisoned, maybe Kathy used her connections to say she didn’t want an autopsy but that seemed hard to believe. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

. I just really can’t stand Ross.

I hated him. Dammit, why did Deakins have to go? 

[Xeliou66]

11 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I hated him. Dammit, why did Deakins have to go? 

I think just about all CI fans are united in their hatred of Ross. The guy was such a condescending, demeaning, egotistical ass.

Deakins was sorely missed when he left, and it also pisses me off how Deakins was so underused in many episodes, while Ross got a lot more screen time. And Deakins exit left a bad taste in my mouth, no way Deakins would give in to Adair and his minions so easily, Deakins was a fighter, it was so stupid to have him just quit and go out under a cloud. Why couldn’t they just have Deakins choose to retire on his own and then have a small goodbye scene for him at the end of his last episode? Plus Goren/Eames weren’t even in the squad room when he left, another thing that pissed me off.

[peacheslatour]

Watching Vanishing act -

Random Dumbass "He said he wanted to be buried alive. I told him I could make it look and feel like the real thing but with less danger.

Eames "Well. I guess you were wrong then."

[WendyCR72]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:30 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Betrayed was just on, I like the episode despite it being predictable, but my god Ross was such a dickhead, even more than normal in this episode, he was such a rude and condescending grade A asshole to Goren/Eames in this episode. Very abrasive with them for no reason, screaming at Goren at one point and he had a total blind spot for Kathy. He should’ve taken a step back from the case, but he was an unprofessional douche as usual. I just really can’t stand Ross.

The episode had a couple of flaws - I was unsure of how Kathy had been able to set up such a complex plot while also dealing with the police at the same time. And I had a hard time believing no autopsy was performed on the judge that was Kathy’s previous husband that she poisoned, maybe Kathy used her connections to say she didn’t want an autopsy but that seemed hard to believe. 

And I still do not understand why we were shown Kathy decorating a nursery when she knew there would be no baby.

I do like that G/E's thaw was relatively quick. Still got a chuckle at the scene with Trina, her sex tape, and Eames passing it to Goren, who looked like he was grabbing a dead animal or something. LOL!

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Watching Vanishing act -

Random Dumbass "He said he wanted to be buried alive. I told him I could make it look and feel like the real thing but with less danger.

Eames "Well. I guess you were wrong then."

I really liked that episode. VDO looked like he was having a blast with it.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And I still do not understand why we were shown Kathy decorating a nursery when she knew there would be no baby.

I do like that G/E's thaw was relatively quick. Still got a chuckle at the scene with Trina, her sex tape, and Eames passing it to Goren, who looked like he was grabbing a dead animal or something. LOL!

I really liked that episode. VDO looked like he was having a blast with it.

Right? Especially when he was playing with the magic props. He seemed like he was really getting a kick out of it. Why they squandered an actor of his caliber with a bunch of boring "personal demons" crap is beyond me.

Edited October 29, 2022 by peacheslatour

[Sigmagirl]

A "Smothered" story problem.

IF Priscilla Van Acker goes to prison for engineering the death of Lois Romney; 

AND Roger Jameson goes to prison for conspiracy;;

THEN: Does Mrs. Burgman get to keep Mr. Lincoln?

[peacheslatour]

5 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

A "Smothered" story problem.

IF Priscilla Van Acker goes to prison for engineering the death of Lois Romney; 

AND Roger Jameson goes to prison for conspiracy;;

THEN: Does Mrs. Burgman get to keep Mr. Lincoln?

Didn't she buy him, fair and square?

[Xeliou66]

On 10/28/2022 at 7:25 PM, WendyCR72 said:

And I still do not understand why we were shown Kathy decorating a nursery when she knew there would be no baby.

I do like that G/E's thaw was relatively quick. Still got a chuckle at the scene with Trina, her sex tape, and Eames passing it to Goren, who looked like he was grabbing a dead animal or something. LOL!

I really liked that episode. VDO looked like he was having a blast with it.

You’re right about the scene in the nursery with Kathy, made no sense. The episode was predictable, it was obvious from the start Kathy was the killer, it was just about piecing it together. I also liked how Goren/Eames got back on track after Goren’s absence. But goddamn, Ross was a total ass. I mean he usually was an ass, but he took it up a notch higher in this one. 

[Sigmagirl]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Didn't she buy him, fair and square?

She bought him in good faith, believing Jameson had the right to sell him, but he did not. The horse belonged to Priscilla. The papers to a racehorse have to be transferred the same way as the registration to a car, and the papers were in Priscilla’s name. Roger would have forged them to get the money.

[WendyCR72]

12 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

A "Smothered" story problem.

IF Priscilla Van Acker goes to prison for engineering the death of Lois Romney; 

AND Roger Jameson goes to prison for conspiracy;;

THEN: Does Mrs. Burgman get to keep Mr. Lincoln?

I got the impression she wasn't about to give Mr. Lincoln back, anyway. But...probably?

On a side note, seems the show is re-gaining its longer former Thursday marathon on WE, beginning this Thursday per listings, running until almost 7:00 p.m., same for the following Thursday, the 10th.

No clue if it is a temporary deal or not as, I think, Criminal Minds had the slot, but I'm guessing ratings must still be good if it is having its marathon come back. *shrug*

[Shadow Lass]

On 10/28/2022 at 7:25 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I really liked that episode. VDO looked like he was having a blast with

Apparently VDO has been messing with magic since he was a teenager, so I'm pretty sure he wa

Edited November 1, 2022 by Shadow Lass

[Shadow Lass]

Watching "Frame" last week and had not noticed before how absolutely jealous Declan is of Goren's close relationship with Eames!

[WendyCR72]

11 minutes ago, Shadow Lass said:

Apparently VDO has been messing with magic since he was a teenager, so I'm pretty sure he wa

You got cut off, but I know about VDO's love of magic. 😎

As I posted before at some point, I recall reading that, if he weren't an actor, he wanted to be a magician. So it's no surprise that he/Bobby was so happy during "Vanishing Act"!

5 minutes ago, Shadow Lass said:

Watching "Frame" last week and had not noticed before how absolutely jealous Declan is of Goren's close relationship with Eames!

Yeah, as I said, the show liked to straddle the fence with them. For the 'shippers and the non-shippers, what with Declan's observations about Alex caring about Bobby "deeply", knowing him so well, and the little undercover moments they had...

Declan truly was jealous, though, no doubt. Makes me wonder if that is why he tried to make it appear that Eames was gaslighting Goren, so Goren would mistrust her, etc.

[Xeliou66]

Family Values was just on, this is probably my favorite season 8 episode, Goren was really good in it, I know Goren was kind of worn down around this time but this felt like classic Goren, and it was a dark and chilling case, Paul Devildis was a deranged and despicable killer, and I really liked Goren’s final confrontation with him. It was also very creepy how Paul seemed to be attracted to his daughter, what a fucking creep. Even Ross was okay in this episode, he didn’t come off as an asshole in this one, one of the few episodes where he didn’t piss me off.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Family Values was just on, this is probably my favorite season 8 episode, Goren was really good in it, I know Goren was kind of worn down around this time but this felt like classic Goren, and it was a dark and chilling case, Paul Devildis was a deranged and despicable killer, and I really liked Goren’s final confrontation with him. It was also very creepy how Paul seemed to be attracted to his daughter, what a fucking creep. Even Ross was okay in this episode, he didn’t come off as an asshole in this one, one of the few episodes where he didn’t piss me off.

David Harbour really sold the crazy and evil well. Not surprised he has gone on to a great career. I like that one, too.

As I type, "All In", the weird "this is Joey Frost, but we'll call him Josh Snow!" episode is on. Nice to have the late-afternoon marathon back on WE! (I know it starts in the morning, but the afternoon is when I can watch.)

[Xeliou66]

14 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

David Harbour really sold the crazy and evil well. Not surprised he has gone on to a great career. I like that one, too.

As I type, "All In", the weird "this is Joey Frost, but we'll call him Josh Snow!" episode is on. Nice to have the late-afternoon marathon back on WE! (I know it starts in the morning, but the afternoon is when I can watch.)

Paul was one of the most memorable villains on CI, especially from the later years (season 6 and afterwards). He was really deranged and creepy, trying to kill everyone in his life and being attracted to his daughter. There weren’t a lot of memorable villains in CI’s later seasons, Paul was one though. Goren was really good in confronting him at the end. One reason I like Family Values a lot is it was one of the later season episodes that felt like classic CI - solely focused on the case with a twisted villain, no personal soapy drama.

Don’t even get me started on All In and the bizarreness of Joey Frost/Josh Snow. That was so weird it completely took me out of the episode, why didn’t they keep the name the same, even if they had to get a new actor? Made no fucking sense. I really like Cruise to Nowhere but All In was just kind of a mess. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Don’t even get me started on All In and the bizarreness of Joey Frost/Josh Snow. That was so weird it completely took me out of the episode, why didn’t they keep the name the same, even if they had to get a new actor? Made no fucking sense. I really like Cruise to Nowhere but All In was just kind of a mess. 

As I said before, the only logical explanation, to me, is maybe there was some copyright issue with the original writer of the "Cruise To Nowhere" episode, so some things had to be changed.

But, if that were the case, why do it at all? Just make Josh a new perp. *shrug*

[WendyCR72]

Watching S4 on Sundance now, and "In The Dark", a.k.a. the nonexistent Jenny, Rose, Butch the killer mechanic, and the stone baby episode.

And I reiterate: Season 4 was a dark as hell season! No wonder it was the season that forced the groundwork for the change to two teams instead of just G/E, what with VDO's exhaustion and the re-introduction of Mike Logan.

The actor that thought Donald in the tunnel was a demon also played him appropriately nutty enough. (Although the fake body parts looked fake, but that's more than fine with me!)

I'm not an actor, and even I would have gotten burnt out based on some of the material!

[Xeliou66]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Watching S4 on Sundance now, and "In The Dark", a.k.a. the nonexistent Jenny, Rose, Butch the killer mechanic, and the stone baby episode.

And I reiterate: Season 4 was a dark as hell season! No wonder it was the season that forced the groundwork for the change to two teams instead of just G/E, what with VDO's exhaustion and the re-introduction of Mike Logan.

The actor that thought Donald in the tunnel was a demon also played him appropriately nutty enough. (Although the fake body parts looked fake, but that's more than fine with me!)

I'm not an actor, and even I would have gotten burnt out based on some of the material!

Yep, season 4 was exceptionally dark, a lot of weird and disturbing cases. In the Dark with the stone baby has to be right up at the top of the list of creepy CI episodes.

Season 4 might be my favorite season, I really like the dark nature of the cases for the most part, only thing I didn’t like was how at the start of season 4 Goren was a bit off, feeling sympathy for the perp in Semi-Detached was OOC and even worse was his feeling sympathy for sicko Tagman in Want. I have no idea what was with Goren at the start of the season, but fortunately he got back to being his usual self after those 2 episodes.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Watching S4 on Sundance now, and "In The Dark", a.k.a. the nonexistent Jenny, Rose, Butch the killer mechanic, and the stone baby episode.

"The killer and Mrs. Magoo." Season 4 is truly some of the darkest television since Criminal Minds and they had a huge cast in comparison. As Xeliou says, you can see why it messed with VDO's head. I can't ever watch Magnificat ever again.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

"The killer and Mrs. Magoo." Season 4 is truly some of the darkest television since Criminal Minds and they had a huge cast in comparison. As Xeliou says, you can see why it messed with VDO's head. I can't ever watch Magnificat ever again.

Magnificat is incredibly disturbing, with the children being blown up, and the scumbag controlling father getting away with his role in it. As I’ve said before, I was disappointed Carver didn’t at least try to prosecute him for negligence, given that he knew his wife was dangerous to their children and did nothing and just made things worse.

The other episode that comes to mind as incredibly bleak is No Exit, that episode is almost too bleak and dark, and the sight of the guy trapped in the car as the train approaches is horrifying.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The other episode that comes to mind as incredibly bleak is No Exit, that episode is almost too bleak and dark, and the sight of the guy trapped in the car as the train approaches is horrifying.

Yeah. Of course, we later find out Carmine was a dirtball that lied for his boss under oath, but there are other ways to handle that, not having him killed by a train!

On the other end of the series, I see WE is now in the midst of S9 for today's long marathon. Although it will segue into S10. It airs until 8 tonight! Oddly fitting, since the Mothership starts then on NBC.

[WendyCR72]

WE is so arbitrary in terms of showing scenes or not. "Rispetto" is on now, and this time, the part where Nyle Brite asks the hooker if her father knew she was a whore was shown, when it hadn't been during "normal" hours, but shown late at night when it aired then.

Then again, with the reality trash it shows, that scene really was no worse than half of that stuff. "The Consoler", of course, airs next.

But I notice on the schedule that, after the marathon ends with that, it circles back to S1 next week, so much of S10 will be skipped this time. Weird how sometimes the whole series is cycled through and other times, episodes get skipped. *shrug*

[Xeliou66]

I just watched View From Up Here, I really like this episode, all of the stuff going on at the building made for an interesting backdrop and the case was very good with an interesting cast of suspects. You know that season 4 was dark and weird when this was one of the more “normal” episodes.

Victor was extremely slimy and creepy looking and he was an effective perp, interesting plot with how he set up the disturbed nanny to try to take the fall. Good detective work in figuring out how he went about setting it all up. 

Impressive how Carver instantly knew the Bible passage that the nanny mentioned, we never knew what Carver’s religion was or what his background was but he must’ve had some religious education/experience to know the Bible that well.

I think this is an underrated episode, it may get overlooked because it wasn’t as dark or bizarre as some season 4 episodes but it’s a really good plot that was intricate but it all made clear sense in the end. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Victor was extremely slimy and creepy looking and he was an effective perp, interesting plot with how he set up the disturbed nanny to try to take the fall. Good detective work in figuring out how he went about setting it all up. 

I've loved Adam Goldberg ever since he was Chandler's crazy roommate on Friends. He is very good at "whackjob".

Quote

Impressive how Carver instantly knew the Bible passage that the nanny mentioned, we never knew what Carver’s religion was or what his background was but he must’ve had some religious education/experience to know the Bible that well.

IIRC, Carver did that a couple of times. Maybe his backstory is that he studied for the priesthood at some time?

I agree, it's one of my favorite episodes.

Edited November 14, 2022 by peacheslatour

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

I've loved Adam Goldberg ever since he was Chandler's crazy roommate on Friends. He is very good at "whackjob".

IIRC, Carver did that a couple of times. Maybe his backstory is that he studied for the priesthood at some time?

I agree, it's one of my favorite episodes.

I don’t recall another episode where Carver quoted from the Bible directly, but it was impressive how he had that knowledge. I wonder if he had a religious upbringing or went to a religious based school? We just never knew anything about Carver, but I kind of like how CI never shoved the personal lives of the characters down our throats, at least not during the first 5 seasons, and even after that it never became the full blown soap opera that SVU is now.

I really like View From Up Here, I like all of the detective work they did to figure out how the disturbed nanny was being set up to take the fall and then putting the camera in the shaft to record Victor coming and going and how they got him to confess at the end. I have no idea what Darla saw in Victor, he was a sleazy looking creep. I wonder if Victor’s wife had any idea what kind of psycho she was married to, or that Victor moved there just to be near Darla again.

[WendyCR72]

I got a kick out of Alex's, "The fancier the building, the bigger the vermin in the walls!" as she, Goren, and Victor watched the tape of Victor slithering through the vents.

Victor was icky, and I suppose Darla being trashed would be the only reason she would have given him the time of day.

As @peacheslatour said, Adam Goldberg was great on Friends as Eddie. Goldberg has made a career playing oddballs and weirdos.

Also remember him from the short-lived ABC series, Relativity, in 1996.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I got a kick out of Alex's, "The fancier the building, the bigger the vermin in the walls!" as she, Goren, and Victor watched the tape of Victor slithering through the vents.

Victor was icky, and I suppose Darla being trashed would be the only reason she would have given him the time of day.

As @peacheslatour said, Adam Goldberg was great on Friends as Eddie. Goldberg has made a career playing oddballs and weirdos.

Also remember him from the short-lived ABC series, Relativity, in 1996.

I liked that Eames line as well, and I also liked her line about how if the guy who hit the body with his boat didn’t submit to a breathalyzer test she would put him somewhere his pull didn’t reach.

Victor was a slimebag inside and out, and I have no idea why Darla had an affair with him. There was an interesting cast of suspects in this episode and it kept the suspense up. One of my favorite episodes from season 4. 

[WendyCR72]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked that Eames line as well, and I also liked her line about how if the guy who hit the body with his boat didn’t submit to a breathalyzer test she would put him somewhere his pull didn’t reach.

Yes! Alex took no crap. I liked that about her.

I do think Adam Goldberg was very good/scary at the end when he kept saying, "I killed your man!" He was clearly psycho.

For her sake, I hope Darla did hightail it to California following that.

"The Unblinking Eye" ended the Tuesday Sundance marathon, and I still get a kick out of the fact that Matt Damon had a voice cameo. As I said prior, one of his first (uncredited!) roles was in the 1988 movie, Mystic Pizza, where VDO played the fiancé of one of the three female leads, so I'd like to think Matt Damon did it as some sort of favor.

But the perp in that was such a cold sleaze, too. Killing his girlfriend to gain more fame is just ice cold. His ex, Kelly, who was accused definitely dodged a bullet by dumping his ass.

[peacheslatour]

The Unblinking eye also had Pablo Schreiber (William Lewis from SVU) as the killer's actor buddy. He played Lewis as a terrifying rapist/murderer and I can never see him without thinking about how much I hated him on SVU.

[TakomaSnark]

Was watching 'Death Roe' again yesterday (have seen it countless times) and there are still some plot points I am not clear on that I hope someone can help with:

1) When Josh gets the phone call about the food poisoning and goes into a rage, is it because the pending bad review will ruin his business or that he believes his father-in-law sabotaged him with bad/tainted fish?

2) Along those lines, the editor tells Goren and Eames that the critic did have food poisoning but doesn't a guest at the dinner later say no, he was the one who had the food poisoning. If there was no food poisoning (which jives with Josh being tricked into believing there was), why did the editor say there was?

3) We know Tommy murdered Josh but I'm still not clear on who killed the critic. Josh had the immediate motive; however, if he did do it, how did he end up dead by Tommy? Are we to assume Josh killed her and then turned to Tommy for refuge, who used that opportunity kill Josh and frame him for murder? Or - going on the theory Josh believed Tommy set him up to fail - did he fly into a rage, go to confront Tommy and meet his end then (with Tommy then stalking and murdering the critic, and rigging the rest to make it look like Josh did it and then fled/took his own life)?

4) Did I miss it being mentioned if the police checked Josh's cell phone records the day he disappeared? It would seem easy to connect who fed him the information about the food poisoning from that detail.

I know the episode ultimately wants us to focus more on G/E trying to discern the exact nature of the toxic relationship between Tommy, Beatrice and Josh (just an obsessive parent or, as it turned out, a predatory rapist of his own daughter) and then using their skills to earn her trust to tell them the truth and produce the evidence so that - rather than tie herself to a life of lording it over her father, she could get justice for her husband and free herself from her father forever.

But I keep feeling like there are holes in the first half that I'm either missing or are unexplained.

Thank you!

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Was watching 'Death Roe' again yesterday (have seen it countless times) and there are still some plot points I am not clear on that I hope someone can help with:

1) When Josh gets the phone call about the food poisoning and goes into a rage, is it because the pending bad review will ruin his business or that he believes his father-in-law sabotaged him with bad/tainted fish?

2) Along those lines, the editor tells Goren and Eames that the critic did have food poisoning but doesn't a guest at the dinner later say no, he was the one who had the food poisoning. If there was no food poisoning (which jives with Josh being tricked into believing there was), why did the editor say there was?

3) We know Tommy murdered Josh but I'm still not clear on who killed the critic. Josh had the immediate motive; however, if he did do it, how did he end up dead by Tommy? Are we to assume Josh killed her and then turned to Tommy for refuge, who used that opportunity kill Josh and frame him for murder? Or - going on the theory Josh believed Tommy set him up to fail - did he fly into a rage, go to confront Tommy and meet his end then (with Tommy then stalking and murdering the critic, and rigging the rest to make it look like Josh did it and then fled/took his own life)?

4) Did I miss it being mentioned if the police checked Josh's cell phone records the day he disappeared? It would seem easy to connect who fed him the information about the food poisoning from that detail.

I know the episode ultimately wants us to focus more on G/E trying to discern the exact nature of the toxic relationship between Tommy, Beatrice and Josh (just an obsessive parent or, as it turned out, a predatory rapist of his own daughter) and then using their skills to earn her trust to tell them the truth and produce the evidence so that - rather than tie herself to a life of lording it over her father, she could get justice for her husband and free herself from her father forever.

But I keep feeling like there are holes in the first half that I'm either missing or are unexplained.

Thank you!

Tommy murdered the critic, just to set Josh up for it, that I know for sure. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode so I don’t know about cell phone records. The critic definitely had food poisoning, I can’t remember a scene where a guest at the dinner said he had it, the murdered critic definitely got sick, I remember ME Rodgers going over her hospital report with Goren/Eames. I don’t know about why Josh got so angry at the start. It’s a very complex episode, but I do like it a lot, Tommy was such an evil villain and it was interesting seeing Goren/Eames get to the bottom of the situation.