Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[peacheslatour]

Can I just say how much I hate the Nicole Wallace episodes? I hate her stupid, smug face. I hate her accent, I hate the way she acts like Robert Goren is her personal whipping boy. I just can't stand her.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Can I just say how much I hate the Nicole Wallace episodes? I hate her stupid, smug face. I hate her accent, I hate the way she acts like Robert Goren is her personal whipping boy. I just can't stand her.

Spot on. I HATE the Nicole episodes and I usually skip them when they come on - it was ridiculous how she kept on escaping, and I especially hated how at the end she was killed off offscreen. The whole storyline was stupid. If Nicole had been killed off at the end of Great Barrier I would’ve been okay with the storyline, but dragging it on was stupid. I found Nicole insufferable and annoying and not even a compelling villain. 

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Can I just say how much I hate the Nicole Wallace episodes? I hate her stupid, smug face. I hate her accent, I hate the way she acts like Robert Goren is her personal whipping boy. I just can't stand her.

FRIEND!

My only complaint - when she was finally dealt with - was that it was Declan Gage that did the honors. It should have been Goren and/or Eames.

[Jaded]

Count me in as another who hated Nicole Wallace episodes. I think I posted a mini rant about it awhile back in this thread. Her character was too over the top even for this L&O series. 

[peacheslatour]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

FRIEND!

My only complaint - when she was finally dealt with - was that it was Declan Gage that did the honors. It should have been Goren and/or Eames.

I would love to have seen Eames blast her and she begs Bobby to help her and he just says "No."

[Dirtybubble]

21 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Can I just say how much I hate the Nicole Wallace episodes? I hate her stupid, smug face. I hate her accent, I hate the way she acts like Robert Goren is her personal whipping boy. I just can't stand her.

I liked the Nicole episodes but I just didn't like the way it ended.  To die off screen was so unsatisfying!

Every Sherlock needs a Moriarty!  And it seems like on all the shows, CSI, NCIS, etc. the lead detective always has an arch nemesis that slips thru their fingers so I get it.

 

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

I liked the Nicole episodes but I just didn't like the way it ended.  To die off screen was so unsatisfying!

Every Sherlock needs a Moriarty!  And it seems like on all the shows, CSI, NCIS, etc. the lead detective always has an arch nemesis that slips thru their fingers so I get it.

 

Oh yeah, I get that. I just didn't think she was good enough to be Goren's Big Bad. I wanted a villain with loftier goals than impersonating people and killing for no reason. A true Napoleon of crime, if you will.

[Xeliou66]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

FRIEND!

My only complaint - when she was finally dealt with - was that it was Declan Gage that did the honors. It should have been Goren and/or Eames.

Agreed 100%. Having Nicole killed off offscreen by Gage was a travesty. Such an unsatisfying ending to the Nicole storyline. I disliked the Nicole storyline because of how she kept escaping, it was fucking absurd - she escaped 3 times, at the ends of Anti Thesis, Great Barrier and Grow. Plus there was the time she was caught in A Person Of Interest but then acquitted at an unseen trial that we heard about in Pas De Deux I believe. It was just ridiculous, and I found the Nicole character annoying and not all that compelling. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Plus there was the time she was caught in A Person Of Interest but then acquitted at an unseen trial that we heard about in Pas De Deux I believe.

Actually, I believe the unseen trial was referenced in the S3 premiere, "Undaunted Mettle", that of the arrogant bigamist architect. I thought Nicole's acquittal was also ridiculous, but the explanation of money and high-priced lawyers did make sense, even if nothing else did.

And the show probably thought it was adding "layers" to Nicole in having her, a sociopath/psychopath, suddenly caring about Gwen Chapple in "Grow", even trying to protect her from her scumbag "father", but it rang so false to me, especially since Nicole - or whoever she really is, as Nicole was, if you recall, another stolen identity - killed her own child. Her being so fond of killing people, why didn't she put it to good use for once against Gwen's dad? Nope, just a mess.

I did like seeing what became of Gwen in "Frame" in S7, even if her fate as hinted at in S5, was a sad one with her dying of cancer. But the Nicole angle was worn out.

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Actually, I believe the unseen trial was referenced in the S3 premiere, "Undaunted Mettle", that of the arrogant bigamist architect. I thought Nicole's acquittal was also ridiculous, but the explanation of money and high-priced lawyers did make sense, even if nothing else did.

And the show probably thought it was adding "layers" to Nicole in having her, a sociopath/psychopath, suddenly caring about Gwen Chapple in "Grow", even trying to protect her from her scumbag "father", but it rang so false to me, especially since Nicole - or whoever she really is, as Nicole was, if you recall, another stolen identity - killed her own child. Her being so fond of killing people, why didn't she put it to good use for once against Gwen's dad? Nope, just a mess.

I did like seeing what became of Gwen in "Frame" in S7, even if her fate as hinted at in S5, was a sad one with her dying of cancer. But the Nicole angle was worn out.

No it was not referenced in the season 3 premiere Undaunted Mettle, I’m certain of that, it was the middle of season 3 when Nicole’s acquittal was mentioned, I’m almost certain it was Pas De Deux. I’ll be sure to watch for that next time those episodes are on, but I know it was mid season 3 and I’m almost 100% certain it was Pas De Deux. 

Grow was a shitfest I agree and I didn’t think it added anything to Nicole or made any sense, the only scenes I liked in that episode were Logan’s scenes, those were good as was his line about Nicole “beauty, brains and a complete psycho - my dream girl”. 

I liked the continuity of seeing what happened with Gwen as well in Frame. 

[WendyCR72]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

No it was not referenced in the season 3 premiere Undaunted Mettle, I’m certain of that, it was the middle of season 3 when Nicole’s acquittal was mentioned, I’m almost certain it was Pas De Deux. I’ll be sure to watch for that next time those episodes are on, but I know it was mid season 3 and I’m almost 100% certain it was Pas De Deux. 

That's cool. In my defense, I try to pay as little attention to Nicole crap as possible.  😛

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

That's cool. In my defense, I try to pay as little attention to Nicole crap as possible.  😛

I looked it up, it was Pas De Deux, I was right. It was weird how they shoehorned that in in an episode that had nothing to do with Nicole. I’m glad I’m not the only one with a strong dislike for the Nicole episodes.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I looked it up, it was Pas De Deux, I was right. It was weird how they shoehorned that in in an episode that had nothing to do with Nicole. I’m glad I’m not the only one with a strong dislike for the Nicole episodes.

I remember "Pas De Deux" mostly because of Bobby pulling Donnie into his arms to dance.  😛 Not to mention the actor that played Donnie, Charles Rocket, killed himself not long after this episode. (He was most known for being fired from SNL in the early '80s for saying "fuck" while on the air. He also played the brother of Bruce Willis' David Addison character on Moonlighting.)

Just goes to show that one never knows what goes on in the minds of others.

[Dirtybubble]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I remember "Pas De Deux" mostly because of Bobby pulling Donnie into his arms to dance. 

Yeah that episode recently aired on WeTV and it was mentioned a bit that Nicole acquitted and it was brought up that Goren shouldn't go after a presumably innocent woman, Margie Timmons, because of how Nicole got off....or something like that.  Yeah it was a stretch to make that comparison.  *shrug*

I like to call that episode the dancing episode.  To hell with Det. Goren dancing with Donnie to make a point but Robert dancing with Margie....*le sigh* 😍  Even if his motives where of a business nature it was still nice to see him flirt a bit.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

I like to call that episode the dancing episode.  To hell with Det. Goren dancing with Donnie to make a point but Robert dancing with Margie....*le sigh* 😍  Even if his motives where of a business nature it was still nice to see him flirt a bit.

Wasn't the first time he danced while on the job, either. In "Jones" in S1, he danced with one of the hostesses at that club where the victim worked, because the woman Bobby interrogated said she would not get paid if she wasn't dancing/working.

[peacheslatour]

On 3/4/2020 at 12:11 AM, WendyCR72 said:

FRIEND!

My only complaint - when she was finally dealt with - was that it was Declan Gage that did the honors. It should have been Goren and/or Eames.

I was watching SVU last night, Beast's Obsession and I remembered how much I couldn't stand William Lewis was like the way I feel about Nicole but at least we got the satisfaction of seeing how he ended up. We got screwed out of that with Nicole being killed off screen.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I was watching SVU last night, Beast's Obsession and I remembered how much I couldn't stand William Lewis was like the way I feel about Nicole but at least we got the satisfaction of seeing how he ended up. We got screwed out of that with Nicole being killed off screen.

True. But this is where I'm torn. While it would have been more satisfying - and true to the entire story - to have Goren and/or Eames take out Nicole once and for all, I also feel too much time was already spent on her, so the off-screen demise made it a faster disposal (even if - again - it was a nobody character in Declan [in the grand scheme of things] that did the honors) and we didn't have to deal with her anymore after that.

[peacheslatour]

Lol! Laughing my ass off at the end of The Good Child, "Egg Cup! Egg Cup!"

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Lol! Laughing my ass off at the end of The Good Child, "Egg Cup! Egg Cup!"

Melissa Leo was great as the mama from hell, though. (Willing to kill Rachel out of some sick jealousy where her dirtbag lover was concerned.) And, of course, we saw John Shea "Mr. EGG CUP!" again in S7 as the rich father of the snot-nosed rich punk perp in "Legacy".

[LucyEth]

Watching "In The Wee Small Hours" good two part episode, like the joining of the forces.  I really liked Det. Barek.  I thought Annabelle Sciorra was good in that role.  She was better than Eames.  Would have liked to see her with Goren on a regular basis.

[Xeliou66]

Watched In The Wee Small Hours today, it’s an outstanding 2 parter, so much to like about this episode. The case was gripping and took nice twists without being overly complicated, it was great seeing the 2 pairs of detectives work together to investigate the case, I really wish they had done that again, and it was nice to see Deakins and Carver get large roles as well.

The Garrett’s were despicable perps, I’m not sure which one of them I hated the most, they were all scum, I loved Eames line at the end about them getting matching jumpsuits for Christmas. 

I also really liked the continuity with Connie from Sound Bodies returning, and I loved the crossover appearance of Branch, it was one of the few times we saw a crossover character on CI (aside from ME Rodgers) and it worked well, I laughed when Branch tore up the original warrant and got one with his signature on it instead, Branch is something of a polarizing character amongst L&O fans but I liked his colorful personality. 

I also liked how the personal stuff didn’t get too soapy and was tied in to the case, it was one of the few times the show worked in a personal subplot well instead of the soapy dreck that started happening in season 6.

The 2 parter was terrific all around, one of the best CI episodes ever.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Xeliou66

[peacheslatour]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Watched In The Wee Small Hours today, it’s an outstanding 2 parter, so much to like about this episode. The case was gripping and took nice twists without being overly complicated, it was great seeing the 2 pairs of detectives work together to investigate the case, I really wish they had done that again, and it was nice to see Deakins and Carver get large roles as well.

The Garrett’s were despicable perps, I’m not sure which one of them I hated the most, they were all scum, I loved Eames line at the end about them getting matching jumpsuits for Christmas. 

I also really liked the continuity with Connie from Sound Bodies returning, and I loved the crossover appearance of Branch, it was one of the few times we saw a crossover character on CI (aside from ME Rodgers) and it worked well, I laughed when Branch tore up the original warrant and got one with his signature on it instead, Branch is something of a polarizing character amongst L&O fans but I liked his colorful personality. 

I also liked how the personal stuff didn’t get too soapy and was tied in to the case, it was one of the few times the show worked in a personal subplot well instead of the soapy dreck that started happening in season 6.

The 2 parter was terrific all around, one of the best CI episodes ever.

I'm watching it right now and most of my hate goes to the old man. What a reprehensible old fuck. And he's a judge! There has to be a special place in hell for evil creeps like that who are in positions of power over the rest of us.

Edited March 14, 2020 by peacheslatour

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching it right now and most of my hate goes to the old mam. What a reprehensible old fuck. And he's a judge! There has to be a special place in hell for evil creeps like that who are in positions of power over the rest of us.

Agreed, Judge Garrett was a lowlife scumbag and a repulsive predator. His wife though was a killer, and his son was a piece of crap as well - they can all rot. I wonder what the prison sentences were for the judge and his wife. I thought the son was fortunate to just get 1-3 years in prison for his role in Tiana’s death, he was fortunate they needed his testimony against his piece of shit dad. Logan seemed to be irritated by his light sentence as well. 

It’s an outstanding 2 part episode IMO, I really liked the storyline and seeing all of the characters work together.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching it right now and most of my hate goes to the old mam. What a reprehensible old fuck. And he's a judge! There has to be a special place in hell for evil creeps like that who are in positions of power over the rest of us.

Alas, because of money and/or influence, they rarely get what they deserve.

But I have said plenty how much I enjoy this. And I liked the Goren/Eames interplay as far as the letter went. They resolved it maturely, like two adults. Had this occurred in the Warren Leight years, I'm sure there would have been wailing and gnashing of teeth and talk of betrayal, etc.

I know when it originally aired in November sweeps in prime time, it was one two-hour episode. No idea why it was split up, as both parts are almost always shown together.

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Alas, because of money and/or influence, they rarely get what they deserve.

But I have said plenty how much I enjoy this. And I liked the Goren/Eames interplay as far as the letter went. They resolved it maturely, like two adults. Had this occurred in the Warren Leight years, I'm sure there would have been wailing and gnashing of teeth and talk of betrayal, etc.

I know when it originally aired in November sweeps in prime time, it was one two-hour episode. No idea why it was split up, as both parts are almost always shown together.

The Goren/Eames interactions were good as well I thought, I thought it made sense how Eames had initially requested a new partner before warming up to Goren, and it was handled well without any soapy, over the top behavior from either one - very different from the soapy melodrama of seasons 6 and 7. 

I think that In The Wee Small Hours is right at the top of the best CI episodes, it was fantastic all around, excellent plot with great roles for every character.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Goren/Eames interactions were good as well I thought, I thought it made sense how Eames had initially requested a new partner before warming up to Goren, and it was handled well without any soapy, over the top behavior from either one - very different from the soapy melodrama of seasons 6 and 7. 

I think that In The Wee Small Hours is right at the top of the best CI episodes, it was fantastic all around, excellent plot with great roles for every character.

I don't remember which episode it was but a perp yelled out to Eames she would never make captain as long as she was partnered with whackjob Goren. He asks her if she feels that way:

Goren: Is that how you feel?'

Eames: I used to.

Goren: And now?

Eames: It's too late.

No to be cutesy or humorous. Just a fact.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't remember which episode it was but a perp yelled out to Eames she would never make captain as long as she was partnered with whackjob Goren. He asks her if she feels that way:

Goren: Is that how you feel?'

Eames: I used to.

Goren: And now?

Eames: It's too late.

No to be cutesy or humorous. Just a fact.

But I think the question mark to that whole exchange was - too late for what?

As was shown later, she DID almost make captain. Because of her "very strong feelings" for Bobby (the show's own words, not mine, just saying!), she walked away by her own volition. Was it too late because of her association with Bobby? Because she had those "very strong feelings" - whatever they were (defined by each viewer) and couldn't walk away? Because it didn't matter in the grand scheme?

See, this is a PERFECT EXAMPLE as to why I hated Warren Leight's peccadillos, trying to sow discontent/drama where none was needed. Considering all that came after, it was clear that Eames was fiercely loyal to and protective of Goren, so isolated crap like this further made no sense.

 

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

But I think the question mark to that whole exchange was - too late for what?

As was shown later, she DID almost make captain. Because of her "very strong feelings" for Bobby (the show's own words, not mine, just saying!), she walked away by her own volition. Was it too late because of her association with Bobby? Because she had those "very strong feelings" - whatever they were (defined by each viewer) and couldn't walk away? Because it didn't matter in the grand scheme?

See, this is a PERFECT EXAMPLE as to why I hated Warren Leight's peccadillos, trying to sow discontent/drama where none was needed. Considering all that came after, it was clear that Eames was fiercely loyal to and protective of Goren, so isolated crap like this further made no sense.

 

Oh, no doubt. It was just Eames' deadpan, resigned delivery that got me. To me it showed she cared more about  Goren than she did about making captain, which I think your anecdote illustrates as well.

Edited March 14, 2020 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

12 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh, no doubt. It was just Eames' deadpan, resigned delivery that got me. To me it showed she cared more about  Goren than she did about making captain, which I think your anecdote illustrates as well.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I do agree. 🙂 I really wish - when they came back in S10 - we found out how and why. And I would have liked to see Bobby's feelings about Alex throwing away a chance to advance. Because I'm sure he would not have liked it, etc. But, as I said, I went with the flow, because the show clearly wanted to almost ignore S9. But there are so many instances where blanks could have been filled in, you know?

And I have been vocal about not liking S9, but I don't think a line about what happened to the other captain, Nichols, and Stevens would have been out of line. Or explaining Carver's absence, for that matter.

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I see what you mean. I do agree. 🙂 I really wish - when they came back in S10 - we found out how and why. And I would have liked to see Bobby's feelings about Alex throwing away a chance to advance. Because I'm sure he would not have liked it, etc. But, as I said, I went with the flow, because the show clearly wanted to almost ignore S9. But there are so many instances where blanks could have been filled in, you know?

And I have been vocal about not liking S9, but I don't think a line about what happened to the other captain, Nichols, and Stevens would have been out of line. Or explaining Carver's absence, for that matter.

Absolutely agree. There was some real shit writing in the later seasons. They left so many questions. And while I kind of liked the low key finale, I would really have liked some answers.

[Xeliou66]

19 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I see what you mean. I do agree. 🙂 I really wish - when they came back in S10 - we found out how and why. And I would have liked to see Bobby's feelings about Alex throwing away a chance to advance. Because I'm sure he would not have liked it, etc. But, as I said, I went with the flow, because the show clearly wanted to almost ignore S9. But there are so many instances where blanks could have been filled in, you know?

And I have been vocal about not liking S9, but I don't think a line about what happened to the other captain, Nichols, and Stevens would have been out of line. Or explaining Carver's absence, for that matter.

I hated how the show rarely explained what happened when characters left - it drove me nuts. Although I’ve always believed that Nichols and Stevens were still at Major Case in season 10, we just weren’t seeing their cases anymore, that makes the most sense to me, it would’ve been nice to know why Zoe Callas left and Joe Hannah came in as captain.

I’ve always assumed that Hannah got Goren back to Major Case because of their prior friendship, I’m not sure where Eames was during that time, but I wish they had made that clear at the start of season 10 as well. 

Not explaning why Carver left was unforgivable, I hated that, Carver was a really good character and I miss him on the later seasons and I would’ve really liked to have known why he left and I hated how they pretty much got rid of the legal stuff in the later season. I always thought Carver might’ve become a judge somewhere, I think he would’ve made an excellent judge. I wish Carver or Deakins had made a cameo in season 10 just to see what they were up to since they were such a big part of the show for 5 years.

And about Eames, SVU did show that she had become a LT of the counter terrorism squad so she did get promoted, I know a lot of people prefer to ignore SVU though but if you count that she did get a promotion eventually.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Not explaning why Carver left was unforgivable, I hated that, Carver was a really good character and I miss him on the later seasons and I would’ve really liked to have known why he left and I hated how they pretty much got rid of the legal stuff in the later season. I always thought Carver might’ve become a judge somewhere, 

I like to he think he made it to the state supreme court. He was such a great character, played by a great actor.

[Xeliou66]

26 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I like to he think he made it to the state supreme court. He was such a great character, played by a great actor.

Agreed, Carver was awesome. I loved his smooth, by the book style. He was underused and underappreciated, as was Deakins. I would like to think that Carver became a judge and that’s why he left his position as an ADA, he would’ve made an excellent judge IMO. I do wish they could’ve gotten Carver and Deakins to make a cameo before the show ended, it would’ve been cool to see what they were up to. 

[WendyCR72]

I didn't like how the Mothership approached it with Robinette, as he turned bitter and self righteous, but maybe Carver switched teams and became a defense lawyer.

Not surprised that Leight ushered out the legal end on CI, as I read - maybe in the SVU thread - that he was never big on the legal stuff. But that's kind of idiotic what with the "Order" part being rendered obsolete.

[Xeliou66]

58 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I didn't like how the Mothership approached it with Robinette, as he turned bitter and self righteous, but maybe Carver switched teams and became a defense lawyer.

Not surprised that Leight ushered out the legal end on CI, as I read - maybe in the SVU thread - that he was never big on the legal stuff. But that's kind of idiotic what with the "Order" part being rendered obsolete.

I loathed how the Mothership did Robinette, his character did a total 180, he became, like you said, bitter and self righteous, and he was totally unlike how he was when he was a main character. 

I really wish they had explained Carver’s departure, he was a good character and an important part of the show and the show wasn’t the same when they got rid of the legal stuff. Deakins and Carver were integral parts of the show, both were underappreciated and underused and the show wasn’t the same after they left.

[WendyCR72]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I loathed how the Mothership did Robinette, his character did a total 180, he became, like you said, bitter and self righteous, and he was totally unlike how he was when he was a main character. 

I really wish they had explained Carver’s departure, he was a good character and an important part of the show and the show wasn’t the same when they got rid of the legal stuff. Deakins and Carver were integral parts of the show, both were underappreciated and underused and the show wasn’t the same after they left.

I said this before, but I would have liked Deakins or Carver to return in S10, needing/seeking Goren and Eames' help with some criminal matter. Maybe one of their (now grown) kids were in danger/abducted or something?

I did overall love S10, but this would have made it even better.

[Xeliou66]

26 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I said this before, but I would have liked Deakins or Carver to return in S10, needing/seeking Goren and Eames' help with some criminal matter. Maybe one of their (now grown) kids were in danger/abducted or something?

I did overall love S10, but this would have made it even better.

Yes I would’ve loved for Deakins and or Carver to have made a cameo in season 10, even if it was just to help out with an old case coming back up in the course of a new investigation. It’s too bad they didn’t bring one of them back. Season 10 was really good overall I agree - it felt like classic CI once again. 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I would’ve loved for Deakins and or Carver to have made a cameo in season 10, even if it was just to help out with an old case coming back up in the course of a new investigation. It’s too bad they didn’t bring one of them back. Season 10 was really good overall I agree - it felt like classic CI once again. 

Maybe something with Frank Adair again? We know he managed to smear Deakins, and the show was pretty decent with callbacks... Just spitballing as to why Deakins would return. Carver is even tougher.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe something with Frank Adair again? We know he managed to smear Deakins, and the show was pretty decent with callbacks... Just spitballing as to why Deakins would return. Carver is even tougher.

They could’ve simply had a case or person we hadn’t heard that had been investigated-involved with Deakins/Carver tied to a current case and had Deakins/Carver make a cameo to talk to Goren and Eames about it. It’s really too bad they didn’t do that - I liked how the Mothership brought Rey Curtis back for a cameo in season 20, it’s too bad CI didn’t do that with Deakins and or Carver. 

[WendyCR72]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

They could’ve simply had a case or person we hadn’t heard that had been investigated-involved with Deakins/Carver tied to a current case and had Deakins/Carver make a cameo to talk to Goren and Eames about it. It’s really too bad they didn’t do that - I liked how the Mothership brought Rey Curtis back for a cameo in season 20, it’s too bad CI didn’t do that with Deakins and or Carver. 

Yeah. But maybe the fact that there were only eight episodes didn't allow for any such coordination or whatever. The short season could definitely prohibit any such visits. The Mothership didn't even know S20 was the end (even worse), but at least it got a full season, thus the visit from Rey being easier to set up (most likely?).

[WendyCR72]

"Blind Spot" was on ION last night. And when Ross was giving Alex's address, I noticed it was not the same that was shown in S8. Of course, the show never really went into a lot of personal details, and I would not have blamed Alex for moving after the thing with Jo Gage, but it was never mentioned. So I'm wondering if the viewer was not supposed to remember the different address or if it was intentional.

(Speaking of "Lady's Man", the episode with the second address, I said it before, but it drove me crazy that Alex - who was NOT dumb and a competent detective - never noticed the scent of perfume or things slightly out of place in her home. Oh, well.)

[Dr.OO7]

What made no sense about "Grow" is that Nicole had killed her partner/lover in her previous appearance and was even presumed dead. Shouldn't G&E have arrested her the moment she reappeared?

I didn't dislike Goren, per se, but it often annoyed the hell out of me how he figured out everything about everyone within two seconds after making the most minute observations.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Camille

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, Camille said:

What made no sense about "Grow" is that Nicole had killed her partner/lover in her previous appearance and was even presumed dead. Should G&E have arrested her the moment she reappeared?

I didn't dislike Goren, per se, but it often annoyed the hell out of me how he figured out everything about everyone within two seconds after making the most minute observations.

The Nicole storyline was downright absurd for so many reasons, and yes it was absurd that Nicole wasn’t immediately arrested in Grow and that she was able to get bail. She escaped 3 times - at the end of Anti Thesis, the end of the Great Barrier and the end of Grow, plus she was acquitted after the events of A Person of Interest. It was beyond ridiculous - I hated the Nicole episodes for many reasons, I found Nicole more annoying than compelling, and her escaping every time made the storyline laughable - and the conclusion of the storyline in Frame was incredibly unsatisfying. 

Regarding Goren, I really liked the character but I didn’t like when they would dumb down the other characters just so Goren could point out something that the rest of them missed. It drove me nuts when Goren would point out stuff on the bodies in the morgue that ME Rodgers had apparently missed, because we all know Rodgers is a thorough and competent ME and it made no sense why she hadn’t noticed the stuff Goren would point out. 

[WendyCR72]

I never minded Goren pointing out stuff with Rodgers because she would put Bobby in his place more often than not. Some of those scenes were great!

As for the rest, well...

Dick Wolf outright said Goren was Sherlock Holmes and Eames was Watson, so considering Holmes was the same way with his discoveries, I'm not surprised it is what Wolf and Company copied. Not to mention Bobby's background, what with his mother a librarian (before her illness) leading to his own love of books and his best investigative tool - his library card - not to mention traveling all over the world while in the service...

Put all of that together, and I can easily buy just why Bobby was as smart as he was.

For good or bad, Sherlock Holmes also got most of the glory, so the formula wasn't anything I didn't expect.

I do like that, in "Blind Spot", Goren basically did lose it without Eames, so it did show his dependence on and appreciation for her. (He was off kilter without her input/presence in S3, too, for that matter.) And he was flawed in "Frame", too. While many do not like the later years as much as the early ones, I do think the later years did help put more tarnish on to Goren's armor and he was less perfect, but that's just my take.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

 not to mention traveling all over the world while in the service...

Something that's bugged me in a couple of episodes. When he's talking to ex service members they've accused him of not understanding what it means to be in the military and he never corrects them by mentioning his own service.

[Dirtybubble]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Something that's bugged me in a couple of episodes. When he's talking to ex service members they've accused him of not understanding what it means to be in the military and he never corrects them by mentioning his own service.

You're talking about the episode with Fran Drescher in it, the Thanksgiving episode.  Yeah I figured he did that on purpose.  Maybe he (Goren) didn't want them to know how much he actually knew....don't show your hand kinda thing.

On a side note I can not see Fran Drescher as anything but the nanny.  Seeing her in this episode was just too weird, I couldn't wrap my brain around it.  Especially with her nasally Long Island accent.

 

[peacheslatour]

I just saw one of my favorite back and forths between Goren and Eames.

Goren: "Are you worrying about what she just said?" (perp said Eames would never make captain cuz Bobby is nuts)

Eames "I used to."

Goren: "And now?"

Eames: Deadpan "It's too late."

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I just saw one of my favorite back and forths between Goren and Eames.

Goren: "Are you worrying about what she just said?" (perp said Eames would never make captain cuz Bobby is nuts)

Eames "I used to."

Goren: "And now?"

Eames: Deadpan "It's too late."

*whispers* I hate that one. So much. Out of character for Alex and just...no.

[WendyCR72]

Decisions, decisions.

"Brother's Keeper" on ION now or "Frame" on WE...

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

*whispers* I hate that one. So much. Out of character for Alex and just...no.

Yeah I hate that interaction as well - it just seemed OOC for Eames and I didn’t like how Goren was disliked by the higher ups, it didn’t make a lot of sense to me. 

31 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Decisions, decisions.

"Brother's Keeper" on ION now or "Frame" on WE...

Don’t care for either episode, both were soapy. I’m watching Frame on WE right now though, it pissed me off how they had Rodgers tell Captain Douchebag about Goren’s father, Goren had every right to lose it because of that. Really disliked the hints at a Rodgers/Ross relationship, I can’t stand Ross.