Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Guest]

This topic replaces the old Law & Order: Criminal Intent forum which has been vaulted at the location below:  http://forums.previously.tv/forum/366-law-order-criminal-intent-v/

[WendyCR72]

If anyone is around, I figured I'd break the new digs in. Hi!

[Xeliou66]

So the forums have been reorganized or something? 

[Reality police]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

If anyone is around, I figured I'd break the new digs in. Hi!

Just stopping by. Hey. 

[WendyCR72]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

So the forums have been reorganized or something? 

Yes. This is more like the old TWoP format: Shows with a lot of traffic and/or still airing have full forums. Those no longer in first run and/or with lower traffic have threads. So everything is in one thread now.

17 hours ago, Reality police said:

Just stopping by. Hey. 

Hello!  :-)

[WendyCR72]

MyNetwork is airing S4 right now. And tonight's episodes are "Ex-Stasis" and "Shibboleth". The opening credits for "Ex-Stasis" were just on. I never really paid attention before, but I did tonight. One of the actors was named Ron Orbach, He was the guy Eames interviews after the victim was shot. Since he has the same last name as Jerry Orbach, I looked him up. Come to find out, he is a cousin of his.

So I guess the franchise kept it in the family, too.  :-)

He has also appeared on the Mothership and Law & Order: Trial By Jury, all different characters.

[WendyCR72]

I was looking at some movie reviews at this site, when I saw there was an old joint interview on there with VDO/KE. It's from April 2009, and VDO/KE talk about, among other things, rescuing a girl in the woods in their last episode, which must have been "Family Values" in S8. (They discuss Jeff Goldblum joining the show, so that seems right.)

Nothing earth-shattering but nice. If anyone wants to read it, here.

[WendyCR72]

Don't know the deal with showing repeats lately, but Oxygen skipped over "Betrayed" (S7) in their S7 rotation for no discernible reason, and I also see the WE listings will soon be skipping the last two S10 episodes yet again and is soon cycling back to S1.

I like S1, but it's strange that S10 has not had a complete run (and it is only 8 measly episodes!) in months. And S10 is a great season, too.

[Xeliou66]

Season 10 was the best season of CI since 5, I haven’t seen it in a while but it’s 8 very good episodes. 

It seems like the Ross episodes get shown more than any others, which is too bad because those are the weakest episodes and I don’t like douchebag Ross.

[WendyCR72]

On 1/11/2019 at 11:22 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Season 10 was the best season of CI since 5, I haven’t seen it in a while but it’s 8 very good episodes. 

It seems like the Ross episodes get shown more than any others, which is too bad because those are the weakest episodes and I don’t like douchebag Ross.

I think it helped enormously that S10 had a new EP in Chris Brancato. I didn't know 'til recently that he was involved in the early 2000s NBC show, UC: Undercover, that had strong reviews (but weak ratings and was canceled about a year later).

Saw a YT video when he took over and he seemed really enthusiastic about CI. Maybe Dick Wolf should look outside his trusted regulars more often.

Still wish WE would show all of S10, though.

[WendyCR72]

Have said it before (but it bears being said again), Tom Arnold as an evangelical preacher will never not be the height of irony. ("Brother's Keeper" just ended on WE.)

[wknt3]

On 1/12/2019 at 3:55 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I think it helped enormously that S10 had a new EP in Chris Brancato. I didn't know 'til recently that he was involved in the early 2000s NBC show, UC: Undercover, that had strong reviews (but weak ratings and was canceled about a year later).

Saw a YT video when he took over and he seemed really enthusiastic about CI. Maybe Dick Wolf should look outside his trustd regulars more often.

I'll always be of the opinion that the biggest reason for S10's quality is that they were given a mandate to go back to basics and make the show's core fanbase happy with a good send off and that everything else is secondary. I think that the showrunners get a bad rap for the decisions of the network execs and Dick Wolf. If Brancato was there a couple of seasons earlier it wouldn't have made much difference in the overall level of quality it just would have been bad in a different way.

 

Quote

Still wish WE would show all of S10, though.

Maybe at some point WE's chimps with a dartboard scheduling process will give you your wish. Until then hope springs eternal...

Edited January 16, 2019 by wknt3

[WendyCR72]

On 1/16/2019 at 10:00 AM, wknt3 said:

I'll always be of the opinion that the biggest reason for S10's quality is that they were given a mandate to go back to basics and make the show's core fanbase happy with a good send off and that everything else is secondary. I think that the showrunners get a bad rap for the decisions of the network execs and Dick Wolf. If Brancato was there a couple of seasons earlier it wouldn't have made much difference in the overall level of quality it just would have been bad in a different way.

You're probably right. Still, the fact that he seemed NOT to be a part of Wolf's "stable", so to speak still, IMO, gave the show a shot in the arm I'm not sure that one of his go-tos would have. Yes, it was on the way out either way, but it did seem like Brancato gave it some energy instead of slogging toward the end as S9 painfully did.

 

On 1/16/2019 at 10:00 AM, wknt3 said:

Maybe at some point WE's chimps with a dartboard scheduling process will give you your wish. Until then hope springs eternal...

Well, I mean, God forbid WE does that and takes the focus off of its reality shit. (It seems to have multiplied! Or maybe it's just my very low threshold for absolute garbage.)

[WendyCR72]

I often work in the dead of night and keep repeats on in the background for noise/company and/or to unwind when done. I see both WE and Oxygen will have episodes on: WE will have "Endgame", Oxygen "Frame". I hate when two episodes I like are on at the same time. (First-world problems, I know!)

On the topic of "episodes I like", in terms of the franchise, I see Sundance will also circle around to S1 on Thursday, beginning with "Prescription For Death". Cool!

[Xeliou66]

I’m the opposite regarding those episodes: I loathe both Endgame and Frame!! Both were beyond soapy, having Goren’s bio dad be a murderer on death row was ridiculous, both episodes were nothing more than melodramatic dog shit, Endgame had no real case and Frame was a terrible ending to a storyline that I already disliked. And I hated how they made Rodgers in Frame, giving out info about Goren’s father to Captain Douche, Goren had every right to go bonkers.

[WendyCR72]

Well, I have covered Rodgers extensively regarding her behavior in "Frame". (As you know, I completely agree regarding Rodgers and Ross and agree Bobby had the right to go apeshit.) But I guess I "like" watching Bobby being tortured or something.  :-) Oh, well. But I do stand by my wish that WE would stop half-assing S10 (showing 4 or 5 episodes before going back to the beginning. It was a fine ending with less of that torture and a return to form, and I have no idea why WE keeps skipping its end.

Tomato, tomahto! And, as it happens, I read the schedule wrong. So I can enjoy double the Bobby torture, after all.  :-) 

[Xeliou66]

Agreed about season 10, I liked it a lot and I haven’t seen all of it in a while, I wish they would show it more often. All 8 episodes were solid.

[WendyCR72]

On 1/23/2019 at 1:01 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed about season 10, I liked it a lot and I haven’t seen all of it in a while, I wish they would show it more often. All 8 episodes were solid.

And since it is only 8 episodes, it mystifies me as to why WE skips the last 3 or 4 consistently lately. Oh, well.

[WendyCR72]

So, Oxygen ended S7 and went to...S3. Kind of jarring to go from depressed Bobby and worried Alex back to manic Bobby and snarky Alex.

[Xeliou66]

It’s very weird how they jump around from season to season. It seems to me that they show the later seasons more than earlier seasons, but that may be because I like the earlier seasons much better.

[WendyCR72]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:40 PM, Xeliou66 said:

It’s very weird how they jump around from season to season. It seems to me that they show the later seasons more than earlier seasons, but that may be because I like the earlier seasons much better.

I think it seems that way because - for those that show the series in order - it takes time to cycle through all 10 seasons, so it seems like the earlier seasons are on less. But I think it is about equal. That said WE on Fridays is back to S1.

As for Oxygen (and when it used to be on USA late nights), the jumping around from late to early and back again is weird.

[WendyCR72]

MyNetwork begins S5 tonight with "Grow" and "Diamond Dogs" (featuring future SVU actor Peter Scanavino). One thing that always gets me is how fast the actress that plays Gwen in "Grow"...well, grew between seasons 5 and 7, when she would reappear in "Frame". And it was the same actress (Molly Gottlieb). I did like that they used what her dirtbag father did to her (in trying to kill her) and showed her sad consequences - that she did end up with cancer.

I do think CI was great with callbacks. I know the Mothership also did it. (Not sure of SVU) It gave the franchise a bit more of a "real" feeling, being able to go back to some cases and events.

[Xeliou66]

I agree about the callbacks and continuity, it’s been great throughout the franchise. There have been crossover appearances of many of the characters and references to them as well, as well as continuity with past cases. I loved how we had the same major and recurring characters throughout the franchise, and yes SVU is decent with continuity, it was cool to see Eames on SVU for example and have her talk about Goren.

[WendyCR72]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree about the callbacks and continuity, it’s been great throughout the franchise. There have been crossover appearances of many of the characters and references to them as well, as well as continuity with past cases. I loved how we had the same major and recurring characters throughout the franchise, and yes SVU is decent with continuity, it was cool to see Eames on SVU for example and have her talk about Goren.

Yeah, I also agree with the background characters popping up. One example was the ballistics expert (?) all the way back in S2 of the Mothership in "Wages of Love", the one where Logan told Cerreta that "she does card tricks, too!", showing up eons later on CI in the Season 4 episode, "The Unblinking Eye", the one where the actor killed his girlfriend for publicity, when she was with G&E, and it was determined the gun used was a prop gun. I thought that was a cool move, especially since CI and, sometimes, even SVU have issues with maintaining the connections to the Mothership and are sometimes disconnected. While I do get why CI had that complaint, in a way, I found it ironic since Rodgers also still played heavily on Original Recipe yet was almost full time on CI, too. (But I realize the issues involved more than that.)

[Xeliou66]

Yes it was cool to see the ballistics expert from the Mothership on CI, Arlene Shrier was her name, she appeared numerous times on the Mothership and she appeared 3 times on CI, she appeared in Crazy and Consumed as well as The Unblinking Eye.

What exactly do you mean when you say issues with maintaining connections to the Mothership? I always thought the franchises were very well connected, although we never got an SVU/CI crossover until Eames on SVU Season 14.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes it was cool to see the ballistics expert from the Mothership on CI, Arlene Shrier was her name, she appeared numerous times on the Mothership and she appeared 3 times on CI, she appeared in Crazy and Consumed as well as The Unblinking Eye.

What exactly do you mean when you say issues with maintaining connections to the Mothership? I always thought the franchises were very well connected, although we never got an SVU/CI crossover until Eames on SVU Season 14.

Actually, aside from the Rodgers connection and the Briscoe visit all the way back in S1, CI often seemed to be on its own island, which just seemed to worsen as the seasons went on. (If I recall, the complaints grew when CI was booted off NBC to USA for its last 4 seasons. A lot was made of a mere Jack McCoy reference in S8!) But then, this part of the franchise I have often seen being referred to as a "cult hit", and for good or bad, it seemed to be the red-headed stepchild of the franchise, even if it managed 10 seasons, which does denote some success. SVU seemed closer tied to the Mothership.

But Dick Wolf was right about one thing: He compared the shows to...soup...and said if Original Recipe was Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup, CI was bouillabaisse. LOL. So maybe the tonal differences were an issue.

[Xeliou66]

Agreed that SVU was more closely tied to the Mothership, but CI had plenty of connections to it as well. Aside from Rodgers, of course we had Logan who was a Mothership character first, we had Briscoe and Green appear in Poison, we had Van Buren appear in Badge, we had Lewin appear in One, Branch in In The Wee Small Hours, Skoda in Crazy and in a deleted scene in Tomorrow, and Olivet in To The Bone.

Plus we had minor characters that crossed over: the aforementioned Arlene Shrier, Danielle Melnick in the one scene in the serious finale, defense attorney Peter Behrens in Suite Sorrow, the judge in Stress Position and Chinoiserie and probably a couple of others. 

There were also some references to other characters: Lewin, Branch and McCoy were referenced multiple times, Deakins talked to Van Buren on the phone in Stress Position, Briscoe was referenced a couple of times by Logan.

I agree that there weren’t as many ties in as SVU but there was still a lot of continuity.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed that SVU was more closely tied to the Mothership, but CI had plenty of connections to it as well. Aside from Rodgers, of course we had Logan who was a Mothership character first, we had Briscoe and Green appear in Poison, we had Van Buren appear in Badge, we had Lewin appear in One, Branch in In The Wee Small Hours, Skoda in Crazy and in a deleted scene in Tomorrow, and Olivet in To The Bone.

Plus we had minor characters that crossed over: the aforementioned Arlene Shrier, Danielle Melnick in the one scene in the serious finale, defense attorney Peter Behrens in Suite Sorrow, the judge in Stress Position and Chinoiserie and probably a couple of others. 

There were also some references to other characters: Lewin, Branch and McCoy were referenced multiple times, Deakins talked to Van Buren on the phone in Stress Position, Briscoe was referenced a couple of times by Logan.

I agree that there weren’t as many ties in as SVU but there was still a lot of continuity.

Hmm. All you listed is true. Maybe because much of the visits and stuff occurred earlier in the show's run, it makes it easier to forget. By the way, as an aside:

Quote

Danielle Melnick in the one scene in the serious finale

That one will forever be odd, because while we know who she was, she was never referenced by name and it was just the one scene about telling Parker Gaffney she needed more evidence...then poof! Makes me wonder if Danielle's role was supposed to be more substantial, but was cut as many loose ends needed tying up in the finale or something.

Aside #2, I wish the original finale ending could have been a DVD extra or something. I saw footage of the original in a commercial online for the show and read that Rene Balcer made a cameo. I know I read it was re-shot for a "quieter" ending with just VDO/KE (the original looked more crowded with people on the street/cars, etc.), which was good in terms of showcasing them. But I'm still a bit curious about the original (Goren exited some tall building rather than Gyson's office, for one thing...).

[Raja]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:36 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Actually, aside from the Rodgers connection and the Briscoe visit all the way back in S1, CI often seemed to be on its own island, which just seemed to worsen as the seasons went on. (If I recall, the complaints grew when CI was booted off NBC to USA for its last 4 seasons. A lot was made of a mere Jack McCoy reference in S8!) But then, this part of the franchise I have often seen being referred to as a "cult hit", and for good or bad, it seemed to be the red-headed stepchild of the franchise, even if it managed 10 seasons, which does denote some success. SVU seemed closer tied to the Mothership.

But Dick Wolf was right about one thing: He compared the shows to...soup...and said if Original Recipe was Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup, CI was bouillabaisse. LOL. So maybe the tonal differences were an issue.

Even if the 1PP headquarters was always in the mix that Criminal Intent often literally was on another island for the case was a nice change of pace. And the show dealt with DA's other than New York County.  You would think that with NBC's business interest with the USA Network  some closer ties could have been maintained. There was the by then Lieutenant Eames appearances on SVU.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

Even if the 1PP headquarters was always in the mix that Criminal Intent often literally was on another island for the case was a nice change of pace. And the show dealt with DA's other than New York County.  You would think that with NBC's business interest with the USA Network  some closer ties could have been maintained. There was the by then Lieutenant Eames appearances on SVU.

Especially since, I believe, NBC Universal was part owner (think it still is?) of USA Network to begin with!

[wknt3]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:43 AM, Raja said:

Even if the 1PP headquarters was always in the mix that Criminal Intent often literally was on another island for the case was a nice change of pace. And the show dealt with DA's other than New York County.  You would think that with NBC's business interest with the USA Network  some closer ties could have been maintained. There was the by then Lieutenant Eames appearances on SVU.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 7:35 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Especially since, I believe, NBC Universal was part owner (think it still is?) of USA Network to begin with!

It probably wasn't a matter of business though except as far as the network interference in the later half of the show's run made things harder to plan and pushed to make it less Law & Ordery and more like other different shows so the suits might not have wanted closer ties. I would imagine that a lot of it is creative, you don't want to contradict something that another series in the franchise is doing, it can be hard to write characters to feel right yet fit in with the different tones of the different series, etc. I really do wish they had found a way to work in a Munch appearance though! I mean he's proven to work in any and all types of show and even if the setup for him showing up felt contrived it would be worth it just to see his reaction to Goren...

[WendyCR72]

30 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

It probably wasn't a matter of business though except as far as the network interference in the later half of the show's run made things harder to plan and pushed to make it less Law & Ordery and more like other different shows so the suits might not have wanted closer ties. I would imagine that a lot of it is creative, you don't want to contradict something that another series in the franchise is doing, it can be hard to write characters to feel right yet fit in with the different tones of the different series, etc. I really do wish they had found a way to work in a Munch appearance though! I mean he's proven to work in any and all types of show and even if the setup for him showing up felt contrived it would be worth it just to see his reaction to Goren...

Didn't Fin work narcotics before SVU? I know Goren was in narcotics. Sometimes I wonder if Fin handled Munch as well as he did because he knew Goren there or something. (Heck, the franchise could have made them former narc partners before Fin moved on, etc.!)

Still, yeah, I would have liked for Goren and Munch - two oddball detectives in very different ways - to meet. It's been quite a while: I cannot recall if Munch was in the HLOTS episode, "The Subway", which VDO was in, but if he was, he could mention his startling resemblance to the doomed guy. (Even a bit more ironic is, I think the week after, Kathryn Erbe appeared in an episode, too.)

[Raja]

38 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

 

It probably wasn't a matter of business though except as far as the network interference in the later half of the show's run made things harder to plan and pushed to make it less Law & Ordery and more like other different shows so the suits might not have wanted closer ties. I would imagine that a lot of it is creative, you don't want to contradict something that another series in the franchise is doing, it can be hard to write characters to feel right yet fit in with the different tones of the different series, etc. I really do wish they had found a way to work in a Munch appearance though! I mean he's proven to work in any and all types of show and even if the setup for him showing up felt contrived it would be worth it just to see his reaction to Goren...

I don't think the franchise was serialized enough for that to be any concern. Besides killing an officer or ADA or arresting him  I don't see how you can break continuity on contacts as intense as when they did the miniseries of the three, or even  four shows  if you count the Trail By Jury crossovers.

[WendyCR72]

I recall reading somewhere that, originally, there was supposed to be a three-way crossover with the Mothership, SVU, and CI as CI was getting underway. But then 9/11 sadly happened and it was scrapped. (CI was supposed to debut that week but ended up premiering on September 30th.) So I can only assume, if true, there was some sort of terrorist angle involved.

A part of me wishes some sort of crossover such as that was revisited later. I think it could have benefited all shows involved.

[WendyCR72]

So, per listings, the episode with likely the longest ever title in the franchise - "Please Note We Are No Longer Accepting Recommendations from Henry Kissinger" - will be on WE in the next two weeks. What I find odd, besides that massive title, is how - depending on the network/station - they abbreviate it. There seems to be no set short title. :-) Some channels list it as simply "Kissinger" and others, like WE, use "Please Note..." I think it is the only episode with two alternate titles.

What I'd love to know is who thought up that massive mouthful to begin with?!

[Xeliou66]

Yeah that’s an insane title, I have no idea who came up with it, especially since I don’t think Kissinger is even mentioned in the episode. It’s somewhat of a confusing episode as well IMO.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah that’s an insane title, I have no idea who came up with it, especially since I don’t think Kissinger is even mentioned in the episode. It’s somewhat of a confusing episode as well IMO.

Kissinger is mentioned. But it's a blip, so I get why you'd miss it. When Goren and Eames interview Jeannine, the older woman who is friends with the grandmother from hell, G/E mention how it must have been hard on their friendship when Henry was rejected. Jeannine got all defensive, stating they don't use that term, but that Henry and his grandmother were competing with many other influential people and from such things as letters of recommendation from Henry Kissinger, etc.

[WendyCR72]

"Senseless" just ended. Still one hell of a depressing episode. And I realized it is also the end for Falacci. Kind of jarring how that ended so sadly...and then Wheeler comes back with a...I don't want to say "fluffier" episode, as the perp was burnt from a car bomb,...but less intense, I guess? (As an aside, I guess Mo Rocca ended up going to work for CBS! No idea if he still does. There's a switch in career! That said, I recall Rocca more as a regular commentator on VH1's "I Love The '80s/'70s/'90s/'00s" series it did. Those were fun! And Donal Logue - who'd go on to SVU, appeared in them, too.)

[WendyCR72]

And I see Oxygen is showing "Purgatory" tonight. How ironic since I posted in the vaulted thread (Just before it was!) about not realizing for YEARS that it was Dean Winters, a.k.a. Cassidy on SVU and "Mayhem" in the Prudential ads - (as an aside, love the new one of Mayhem as a car thief. What? What?! WHAT?!) - playing dirty cop Mike Stoat.  :-)

Lotta franchise cops that seem to have criminal doubles.  :-)

[wknt3]

On 2/1/2019 at 9:04 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Didn't Fin work narcotics before SVU? I know Goren was in narcotics. Sometimes I wonder if Fin handled Munch as well as he did because he knew Goren there or something. (Heck, the franchise could have made them former narc partners before Fin moved on, etc.!)

Yes he was in narcotics right before transferring. The difference between the two units was actually the basis for one of the most memorable Munch & Fin scenes in the series history when Fin pulls a spontaneous undercover operation in "Runaway"

Munch: [to Fin] Your Jew? Your Jew? What if I called you my boy?
Fin Tutuola: I'll be your boy, John! [laughs]
Munch: This is not funny. We're not in Narcotics, you cowboy. Fast and loose doesn't play here.
Fin: Look, we got his cell phone number. We got him.
Munch: And I got a small ventricular rupture pulled out of me with no warning. What's the matter with you?

Oh SVU remember when you did shows that good and we could actually believe fast and loose didn't play in SVU?

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Yes he was in narcotics right before transferring. The difference between the two units was actually the basis for one of the most memorable Munch & Fin scenes in the series history when Fin pulls a spontaneous undercover operation in "Runaway"

Munch: [to Fin] Your Jew? Your Jew? What if I called you my boy?
Fin Tutuola: I'll be your boy, John! [laughs]
Munch: This is not funny. We're not in Narcotics, you cowboy. Fast and loose doesn't play here.
Fin: Look, we got his cell phone number. We got him.
Munch: And I got a small ventricular rupture pulled out of me with no warning. What's the matter with you?

Oh SVU remember when you did shows that good and we could actually believe fast and loose didn't play in SVU?

Ah, yes. That scene was great. To think SVU was once watchable because it was good, and not in a train wreck capacity. But thanks for confirming Fin, like Goren, was in narcotics before transferring to SVU and Major Case, respectively!

[WendyCR72]

WE was showing S2 today (and later years on Thursdays, so it's sort of funky to see early G/E versus late G/E), and two of the episodes, "The Pilgrim" and "Suite Sorrow" still had some great lines from Alex.

Still love the line, "The more I know, the less I sleep!" from "The Pilgrim".

And the whole exchange with the Botox patient in "Suite Sorrow" trying to guess Alex's skin routine still gives me a chuckle. I will say, seeing late/early so close together, the early years allowed for a bit more humor. But I guess the loss of humor also made its way to SVU, so...

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

WE was showing S2 today (and later years on Thursdays, so it's sort of funky to see early G/E versus late G/E), and two of the episodes, "The Pilgrim" and "Suite Sorrow" still had some great lines from Alex.

Still love the line, "The more I know, the less I sleep!" from "The Pilgrim".

And the whole exchange with the Botox patient in "Suite Sorrow" trying to guess Alex's skin routine still gives me a chuckle. I will say, seeing late/early so close together, the early years allowed for a bit more humor. But I guess the loss of humor also made its way to SVU, so...

The early seasons were far superior to the later seasons in every facet, including humor.

Suite Sorrow is arguably the most twisted episode in CI history, but it’s very good, I liked the twist of the dad and the would be son in law having an affair and setting everything up, and interestingly enough I don’t think the 2 characters shared a scene together. I wonder what happened to the would be son in law at the end and what happened to the hotel.

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The early seasons were far superior to the later seasons in every facet, including humor.

Suite Sorrow is arguably the most twisted episode in CI history, but it’s very good, I liked the twist of the dad and the would be son in law having an affair and setting everything up, and interestingly enough I don’t think the 2 characters shared a scene together. I wonder what happened to the would be son in law at the end and what happened to the hotel.

I would think the hotel was sold, since both parents ended up dead and Julie ended up imprisoned for killing her lowlife father. (As an aside, Hal Linden played him so well!)

As for Kenneth? Well, he was a snake, but I don't think he did anything strictly illegal, so he probably slithered off to find some new wealthy prey.

[WendyCR72]

WE late night is showing "Assassin" along with "Please Note..." and "Reunion". I wonder how much money Joan Jett was paid in "Reunion" for playing dead for 90% of the episode?  🙂 That always did surprise me since I think I caught her guest starring on a Highlander episode or something once, and her acting wasn't all that bad.

"Please Note...", well, we got into that already. And "Assassin", I find boring, but it's nice to see actor Stephen Schnetzer (from soap opera Another World fame) as Bella Khan's hubby.

[Xeliou66]

Reunion was a good episode albeit predictable IMO, I predicted who the killer was early on, as well as the twist about Milo being Jordy’s son.

Please Note was somewhat confusing, not bad but somewhat confusing and slightly cliched, there was one very funny moment when the arrogant snobby mother in law said about her daughter in law “if it was up to her, Henry would eat potato chips and watch Jerry Springer all day”. That line made me laugh out loud.

Assassin was somewhat boring I agree. 

Most of the episodes during this era of CI were incredibly predictable, I was able to guess how it would end most of the time, the show was incredibly mediocre and dull compared to the earlier seasons around this time.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Please Note was somewhat confusing, not bad but somewhat confusing and slightly cliched, there was one very funny moment when the arrogant snobby mother in law said about her daughter in law “if it was up to her, Henry would eat potato chips and watch Jerry Springer all day”. That line made me laugh out loud.

I also remember her snidely telling G/E how Marla was "at the salon, getting her roots dyed". I can see how living with this harpy would make anyone nuts. That said, I do think this episode was somewhat interesting at the end, once Bobby got Marla to lower the gun so she could be apprehended and arrested.

Earlier on, obviously, Bobby had a sliver of sympathy for the crazy women perps, maybe because of his mom. But I liked the change here, when Marla was crying how she thought Bobby was her friend and Bobby said, under his breath after she was taken out, "They had kids, too."

I liked that he didn't get too soft yet again. Maybe because of the scope of the crime (killing in front of kids), but it was a nice change.

[Xeliou66]

I agree that it was nice to see Goren not have sympathy for her. I really didn’t like how Goren had sympathy for Nelda in Semi-Detached, she was a lunatic murderous bitch who drove an unstable man to suicide and murdered a woman all because of her obsession with her ex, she deserved no sympathy, I was very irritated with Goren seeming to care about her. So yeah it was a nice change for Goren not to have sympathy for her.

[WendyCR72]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree that it was nice to see Goren not have sympathy for her. I really didn’t like how Goren had sympathy for Nelda in Semi-Detached, she was a lunatic murderous bitch who drove an unstable man to suicide and murdered a woman all because of her obsession with her ex, she deserved no sympathy, I was very irritated with Goren seeming to care about her. So yeah it was a nice change for Goren not to have sympathy for her.

I think he might have had sympathy early on. But as the dead parents piled up, and more kids were witness to the killings, it seemed to drain from him. Which is good, obviously. I never understood the sympathy for Nelda Carson, either. He knew what she was and he knew he tried to play him and Eames against each other. But that episode was a bit weird to me, anyway, so...yeah.

[Xeliou66]

23 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think he might have had sympathy early on. But as the dead parents piled up, and more kids were witness to the killings, it seemed to drain from him. Which is good, obviously. I never understood the sympathy for Nelda Carson, either. He knew what she was and he knew he tried to play him and Eames against each other. But that episode was a bit weird to me, anyway, so...yeah.

That episode was weird all around I agree. In fact, the start of season 4 was incredibly weird all around, The Posthumous Collection was weird with the victim photographing the dead models and apparently he didn’t know they were murder victims and the killer had a bizarre, abusive family background, Want was another episode with Goren feeling sympathy for a perp, even screaming at Carver about it (I was surprised Deakins didn’t rebuke him for this) and then Great Barrier was another Nicole episode. Season 4 got off to a really weird start.