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I can’t comprehend the point of these extravagant proposals.  This was like an episode of The Bachelor. 

Carlin reminded me of Gypsy Rose Blanchard tonight.  Something so very child-like about her.  I do love her style, though. 

Edited by woodscommaelle
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I'm trying to struggle through this and I'm either reaching Bates overload or Carlin has done me in.  I don't care and feel like yelling just propose already.  

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I can appreciate that Carlin is not as sweet and demure as she was probably raised to be all her life. Good for her. That said, the girl has never met a camera she didn't like. She always knows where it is and is playing to it. At least she is not as rude as Tori can be, but dang if her voice doesn't get annoying.

There's just a fake sincerity to her words that doesn't sit well with me. She inserts herself as the center of attention in every scenario. When Michaela and others have tried on wedding dresses, she jumps up to take mirror selfies with them (complete with duck lips and poses). When Zach graduated from the academy, she stepped in front of everyone to hug him and tell him how proud she was of him angeled perfectly for the camera. She sobbed harder than Callie at Michaela's wedding. In the first episode, she stopped Erin while shopping for Whitney's baby shower to tell Erin how proud she was of how she was about handling at the miscarriages. There was Erin counting out items to make sure they had enough and Carlin was enthusing on overload about how brave Erin is for everything. 

Maybe she really is just enthusiastic and bubbly, but there's a limit to that kind of thing seeming real. Maybe it's the way she wipes at imaginary tears or the way she dominates any conversation. Maybe it is the constant hair flipping that seems more Kardashian than Bates. Or maybe it is her unending look of surprise that would make a normal person's jaw hurt with the face she makes. Whatever it is, Carlin, Tori, and Nathan are my fast forward material. 

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9 hours ago, Absolom said:

I'm trying to struggle through this and I'm either reaching Bates overload or Carlin has done me in.  I don't care and feel like yelling just propose already.  

Me too!  Only I watched the first 5 minutes and then deleted it from my DVR.  It's just too much with the engagement stuff.  I'd rather watch shows about the younger kids' doings than this dribble.   Jeb and the other little boy are just too cute!  Hey, they should start a spin-off called "Too Cute".  Oh yeah, Animal Planet already did that.  Scratch that - no pun intended. LOL.

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I can't tell the brothers-in-law (correct grammar?) apart.  There was a commercial for Josie's wedding and I thought the groom-to-be was who we were watching on the episode with Carlin last night. 

I wonder what would happen if Kelly Jo was not touching Gil while doing their talking heads on the couch.

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32 minutes ago, woodscommaelle said:

I can't tell the brothers-in-law (correct grammar?) apart.  There was a commercial for Josie's wedding and I thought the groom-to-be was who we were watching on the episode with Carlin last night. 

I wonder what would happen if Kelly Jo was not touching Gil while doing their talking heads on the couch.

Seriously...they do seem to have a type. 

 

And, yes, I am beginning to wonder if Kelly Jo and Gil could get through an entire interview without her clinging to him. We know where her daughters get it from now. 

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21 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

I am beginning to wonder if Kelly Jo and Gil could get through an entire interview without her clinging to him. We know where her daughters get it from now. 

I actually believe the producers are asking them to do this.  If you'll notice, ALL of the married and/or engaged couples touch each other when doing the THs.  They also gaze lovingly at the one who is talking.  I think it's all purposeful and the producers want to make it appear that the Bates live in an idyllic world of rainbows and unicorns- a world completely opposite of the Duggars, who rarely show any affection except the BIG KISS at the weddings.  

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The only nice thing I have to say is I'm grateful they didn't drag it out for an hour.

The whole proposal was so staged and disingenuous. I could picture a director off-camera feeding Carlin and Evan their lines and yelling Cut!!! if the lighting wasn't right.

I guess this is just the world we live in today, but shouldn't a moment like that be personal and a true surprise? The cello player looked like he was trying not to laugh at the absurdity of the whole thing.

As far as Carlin, it wouldn't surprise me if she eventually becomes a baby mill like Erin. She's going to experience a lot of highs in a very short time (engagement, wedding, honeymoon) but real life will mellow out eventually. Between her desperate need for attention and her addiction to the constant adrenaline rush, spitting out a kid every year is the only way she'll be able to keep that going.

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9 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

I actually believe the producers are asking them to do this.  If you'll notice, ALL of the married and/or engaged couples touch each other when doing the THs.  They also gaze lovingly at the one who is talking.  I think it's all purposeful and the producers want to make it appear that the Bates live in an idyllic world of rainbows and unicorns- a world completely opposite of the Duggars, who rarely show any affection except the BIG KISS at the weddings.  

Not sure if it is producer driven or a combo of their religion and their southern heritage. They seem a little too comfortable with it for it to be completely directed. I agree that it is probably encouraged for them to be affectionate and comfortable on the couch. You'll notice that when they mix it up with who is on the couch that there is less of a chemistry. It'll be tough on poor Katie who has always had Josie as an interview partner. I've noticed they have switched around Carlin for her interviews and are letting her do more alone since Tori got married. Maybe because she tends to overtalk everyone else. 

The Duggars are very anti-touch. It's been drilled into them so much that the adult children now seem unsure what to do with a significant other. It's practically a miracle some of them manage to get pregnant. Even the children are not really affectionate. It's strange how removed they all are about things and how unfamiliar they are with each other even personality wise. And don't get me started on side hugs. 

With the Bates family you see a lot more affection. They sit close. You'll see them swatting at each other, hugging, and clamoring to get near one another in greeting. They don't look shocked when Gil or Kelly hug them compared to the younger Duggars and their reaction to Michelle. One of the older children is always holding a younger child (sibling, niece, or nephew) on their hip or on their laps. Even Michaela, who is arguably the most indoctrinated and stiffest of the bunch, hugged Brandon like she was going to jump him during their courtship. I still remember her asinine comment about hugging being okay but they were waiting for engagement to hold hands. WTH? How is that even logical in their screwed up view? 

When Gil and Kelly are featured at IBLP events and the like, they are normally in the same position where he is speaking and she's holding his arm. While it is annoying, she doesn't stare at him quite the same way as Michelle with the dead behind the eyes looks of adoration and baby whisper voice. 

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4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The only nice thing I have to say is I'm grateful they didn't drag it out for an hour.

The whole proposal was so staged and disingenuous. I could picture a director off-camera feeding Carlin and Evan their lines and yelling Cut!!! if the lighting wasn't right.

I guess this is just the world we live in today, but shouldn't a moment like that be personal and a true surprise? The cello player looked like he was trying not to laugh at the absurdity of the whole thing.

As far as Carlin, it wouldn't surprise me if she eventually becomes a baby mill like Erin. She's going to experience a lot of highs in a very short time (engagement, wedding, honeymoon) but real life will mellow out eventually. Between her desperate need for attention and her addiction to the constant adrenaline rush, spitting out a kid every year is the only way she'll be able to keep that going.

She's totally going to be another Erin with the wanting every single one of her siblings to come to the hospital for the birth, photo shoots every week, and treating each chance to be on camera like an audition for her own HGTV/Food Network show. 

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3 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

I can't tell the brothers-in-law (correct grammar?) apart.  There was a commercial for Josie's wedding and I thought the groom-to-be was who we were watching on the episode with Carlin last night. 

I wonder what would happen if Kelly Jo was not touching Gil while doing their talking heads on the couch.

He might get away!

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The actual proposal was sweet and personal, IMO, with the music, poem, and dancing. I like that Evan didn’t make it too complicated (no scavenger hunt), but I will never understand proposing in some random location on what is basically a family trip, instead of somewhere that was meaningful to Carlin and Evan. At least the parents gave them a little space during the actual proposal. 

This season I’ve noticed that Katie is starting to look just like Erin.

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I'm sooo tired of seeing Kelly in a plaid shirt, vest & denim skirt no matter the occasion.  It  looks like she's running to the store or doing chores.  They could do an episode of the girls updating her wardrobe. Evan's mom looked nice in comparison even it was casual.  

Why did they have to have real roses in the bottles?  Thought it was a lot of work but I know they need drama for TV. They could have put silk roses in jars weighted down with decorative stones (helping them to prevent a tipover) thus forgoing having to bring or get water for them. I felt sorry for the cellist, he just seemed so out of place. Someone posted earlier about the Bates being late & why can't they just allow for more time. I thought the same thing when Kelly said something like they only had 1/2 hour to get the decorations set up. Why couldn't they have allowed an hour or more considering they didn't even know where they were setting up & they had to deal with the roses? Sorry Erin, those roses really annoyed me as you can tell.

I agree with Evan that everyone should try lobster when in Maine.  But I wouldn't have wasted a piece of mine on  Carlin considering how she was spazzing out about it. My God, it wasn't a raw oyster but a cooked piece of lobster.  It seems from past episodes the Bates aren't into seafood (except the Walmart brand of frozen fishsticks served with ketchup*) which I  understand.  But it drives me nuts when they make such a childlike showing of their disliking. 

(*No offense to the folks that can only afford to eat fishsticks. I know most seafood isn't cheap.) 

I know we discussed the lighthouse when they got engaged in real time. It is my favorite light house. Years ago I was so happy to find Christmas cards and calendars of it  & this was before the days of finding things easily on the internet.  My dad enjoyed painting as a hobby and painted my husband and I a picture of it. He painted it at a different angle so it's a little different than the usual picture of it & I love it. Like I said before, I will now think of the Bates when I look at my painting. Hopefully that won't last long. 

If I had to choose my favorite Bates or Duggar engagement, it would be Kelton and Josie's. I love the idea of her getting a charm for each place they went, something she can keep & wear forever.(Ben could have done something similar for Jessa (Duggar)for their engagement. IIRC, it was a scavenger hunt of things they had done or places they went together. He could have added a charm to each of the roses she gathered.) I'm going to have to remember the charms idea when Son of Barb is thinking of engagement.  

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I grew up in a coastal Massachusetts town so seafood is in my DNA. I don't get Carlin freaking out about the lobster, because it really doesn't taste fishy or have a strong flavor like crab. IMO, you can never go wrong with anything that's drenched in melted butter. I guess it's all what you're used to, but since fresh lobster's not something that's going to be readily available or affordable in their neck of the woods, why not try something different while you have the chance? 

Regarding Kelly, I think she's self-conscious about her weight gain, and that's why she's burying herself under vests and plaid shirts. 

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I'm thankful for all of you for re-capping these episodes, because like some mentioned, they are getting insufferable. I come here to get the recap and then delete the episode from my DVR. Wedding dress shopping and over the top engagements are all the same. I'll wait to watch until it's an episode that doesn't revolve around a wedding, engagement or courtship. I know I might be waiting a while ;)  

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Erin and her "romantic ideas" make me want to vomit.  It's like she's watched too many Hallmark movies, plus she regurgitates every trite, overdone thing that's marketed as "romantic".  I'm so tired of seeing these cheesy courtship and proposal events, none of which would be happening without the show.  I've always felt like romance can't be manufactured or forced, it happens on its own, and it's often not the things that are hyped as being romantic.  After being married 25 years, if my husband puts gas in my car when it's cold out I'm happy!

Assuming this show ends (which it should, heaven knows), I wonder what effect this will have on the younger girls.  They'll be able to look back and see all these fancy weddings and proposals, but when their turn comes they won't be jetting off to NY for wedding dresses or flying to Maine to get a proposal.  I wonder if they'll be resentful?  

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I've never been to Maine, but if I have the chance to go you better bet I will be having some lobster. But seeing how Carlin was acting in the restaurant with the lobster drove me crazy.  Usually whenever I go to a new location, I'm going to try the food. I would rather try it and find out I don't like it than to think later "I should have tried it." 

Kelly and Gil: I'm glad they let Evan and Carlin go on  a bike ride, but I had to roll my eyes at the way they kept wondering where they were at.  I'm guessing the cameraman and sound man were with them so it's not like if anything happened no one would know about it.

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I flipped past this last night ....three of the girls were doing a TH.

Me: "Oh look....this  must be one of those Teen Moms in the middle, another one is on the right. And Jenna Bush must be interviewing them, because she's there on the left, sitting kinda close. Oh wait, that's not Jenna Bush, must be her twin. But wait. Her twin looks nothing like her and this chick looks just like her. Who is this?"

Then I realized this was the Bateseses show and that's Erin, the piano playing sister.  KellyJo must've had a fling with Dubya. There's no other explanation.

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Best line of the night when Carlin started bike riding... and said it with a big smile... " I feel so free"..

Yes; ma'am. at age 20 - you are able to go on a bike ride with just your so-to-be fiance without your parents being an arm's length away..

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Yes, Kelly and Gil all worried about Evan and Carlin being late (you know like the entire Bates family is in general) it felt less like worrying about two getting lost and more worry that one of theirs might have escaped their cult. Too bad the two didn't take the chance and make a run for it. Think of the freedom you'd both have Evan and Carlin! You'd love the real world Carlin. Lots of dancing, guys to date, and you can do what you want. Not what your controlling parents want.

The proposal was over the top and I felt bad for the cellist. I felt a little bad for Evan and Carlin, its one thing to propose in a special place or destination. But a light house in Maine? Yeah, that sounds like Carlin. The credit they keep giving to Erin annoys me oh, roses at a proposal! Who would have thought! Lining a path with flowers! Nothing she comes up with is original or unique. Its the same with all the praise she got for matchmaking Evan and Carlin when all she did was see Evan was single and remember she had a single sister at home. Kelly sure was complaining a lot about setting up wasn't she? I admit I laughed at that part. For once she couldn't make one of her kids to make do it. Nope, she had to actually do something. I am surprised that Erin didn't go along just as I'm still surprised she didn't go along when Josie was propose too.

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3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

. The credit they keep giving to Erin annoys me oh, roses at a proposal! Who would have thought! Lining a path with flowers! Nothing she comes up with is original or unique. Its the same with all the praise she got for matchmaking Evan and Carlin when all she did was see Evan was single and remember she had a single sister at home. Kelly sure was complaining a lot about setting up wasn't she? I admit I laughed at that part. For once she couldn't make one of her kids 

So much yes to this entire post. It reminds me of the way the Duggars hype up Jana's decorating skills when all she does is copy the same cookie-cutter farmhouse decor that's been all over Pinterest for the past two years. 

And, yes, roses at a proposal?

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5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

So much yes to this entire post. It reminds me of the way the Duggars hype up Jana's decorating skills when all she does is copy the same cookie-cutter farmhouse decor that's been all over Pinterest for the past two years. 

And, yes, roses at a proposal?

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Love the picture! Its so perfect!

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When Carlin and Evan were doing a TH somewhere in Maine, I swear she looked & sounded like she was medicated! & when the 3 girls were on the couch Josie kept looking at her like WTH, did the other 2 ever speak? I thought it couldn't get any worse than Tori.....it does.

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Personally, I didn't care for the dollar store glass stuck in dirt with a flower in each. I understand what Evan was trying to go for but if you can't execute well, don't execute at all.

I wish Kelly would have shut up and closed her mouth freaking out about two grown adults riding bikes together WITHOUT CHAPERONES....oh my word.

Yes, Carlin, I'm sure this is the most freedom that you have felt your entire life so far....even with a camera posted to your bicycle AND a film crew following you.

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And of course we have yet another moment of Kelly Jo musing about being late with something. At least she didn't insert herself into the bike ride like she did with Kelton and Josie in the jeep thing in Utah where she screamed like a banshee at every rough spot. What ever happened to a proposal being a private thing and coming back to announce it to family? A friend of mine is watching past seasons to catch up. She just saw the episode with Bobby proposing to Tori. Same thing...Gil, Kelly, and Bobby's parents spreading out rose petals and lighting candles in daylight while Kelly Jo breathlessly tells everyone again and again that they are running out of time. 

And can Erin's next project please be to update Kelly Jo's wardrobe? The denim skirts and flannel tops/cotton tops are not flattering at all. She stood out for the wrong reasons on the trip to New York with Josie, Carlin, and Whitney. They all had cute black dresses, including Whitney who went sleeveless, but not Kelly who looked like she was running down to the store for a gallon of milk. I'm all for comfort and not being a slave to fashion. So you know if I notice that she's getting frumpier, it's an issue.  

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On 2/1/2019 at 4:40 PM, RebeccatheWriter said:

My mother and I love seafood. My father's not a fan. But even he has better manners than Carlin when it comes to such things. He would graciously say no thanks or he would take a bite just to see. There would be no theatrics or drama involved. 

Carlin and the others in previous episodes act as though you are asking them to eat poison and they have only seconds to save their lives. My question is where were these dramatics when we have seen them on fishing piers at the ocean trying to catch fish or on the beach trying to catch fish?

I'm still waiting on an honest proposal from these guys..."Dearest....I may never have kissed you, copped a feel, or been alone in a room with you. Our conversations may have been the subject of nightly dinner with your parents. I don't know anything more about you than your favorite Bible verse and that your hair color changes weekly. But all that aside, your father tolerates me and your mother will probably pee her skirt if I don't propose soon. So how about it? Won't you marry me so we can get to know each other and decide together if this was one big mistake? #seasonsoflife #journeytogether #threemonthstoolong #ifnotmehowabouttheother12guysthatlooklikeme"

2

You owe me a new monitor.  Spewed my coffee all over it laughing.  thank you for my morning laugh. 

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I like that the couples spend more than 3 months from courting to marriage.  They do seem to get the chance to know each other better than the Duggar couples do.  And they are able to get a little more physical with each other.  Not much, but some.  But I can’t help but think that they all rush to marriage, and at a very young age, simply to have sex.   It’s the only way they can, and they’ve been programmed to think marriage is the end goal anyway.  It would scare the crap out of me if one of my kids did that.   Not only that, but if I had to help plan and execute every single courtship/engagement for my kids I’d lose it.  Why can’t they just get engaged in private??  I think it’s weird and awkward that the parents are ALWAYS there.  And at this point, with 19 kids, I can’t imagine Kelly and Gil have time for anything other than being a part of these ridiculous public displays.

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Was Josie's dress custom-made? Either someone goofed on the measurements or she put on a few pounds because it seemed ridiculously tight. I'm surprised they didn't factor in a generous seam allowance considering she wasn't going to be able to go back and forth for fittings. It looked like Renee was going to have to hack up the entire bodice to make it work.

Jackson seems like he has a good head on his shoulders. I thought the scene of Gil and Nathan helping him work on his truck was really sweet.

Katie is such a beautiful girl. She looks like a mash-up of Erin and Michael. She seems like a hot ticket as well. I loved the "this is why you don't order cheap dresses from China" jab she made at Kelly regarding the dismal bridesmaid's gown.

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On a positive note, Josie has been much more polite and pleasant through the wedding planning than Tori (apathetic) and Michael (a bit on the nervous/anal side). While I wouldn't go to Renee's, I did like that she walked in at the lead of the girls and spoke directly to Renee to thank her fitting them in that day. When she and Kelton were looking at apartments, she thanked (as did he) the leasing agents. She seemed very practical about wanting something smaller and looking forward to not having so many people around. She was also diplomatic with the "drama" about Katie's potato dress. 

I think Katie is a good example of how I wish Carlin was in terms of personality. She is bolder than say Michael, Erin, and even Alyssa. She and Josie are both opinionated. But she doesn't seem to have the need for all the attention or the need to insert herself into everyone's business. She honestly seems like a pleasant person and is very pretty. While she wasn't happy about the dress and vocalized that, she didn't treat it like it was the end of the world. She also clearly stated that it was Kelly who ordered the dress - not the first time Kelly Jo's online shopping was an issue (flower girl dresses for Tori's wedding?). I'm also glad they did celebrate her birthday. If I remember correctly, Josie and Kelton got married on her actual birthday. 

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42 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

When she and Kelton were looking at apartments, she thanked (as did he) the leasing agents. She seemed very practical about wanting something smaller and looking forward to not having so many people around.

I too, liked that Josie specified that she was looking forward to having less people around and their place being clean. 

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This was not a good advertisement for the NYC dressmaker. 

Josie probably wishes she could move even farther away, like Alyssa. Having only 1 bedroom isn't going to deter her family, and I don't know that Gil/Kelly will help them enforce boundaries or not. There seems to be no boundaries in that circus. I feel so sorry for the ones who don't thrive in chaos. I'd lose my effing mind in a household like that. 

16 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I too, liked that Josie specified that she was looking forward to having less people around and their place being clean. 

CLEAN sure was a big deal to her, wasn't it? Ugh. I can't imagine how nasty their house gets in a short amount of time. 

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I thought I remembered last week that the NYC dressmaker said she had left 1/2" seam around the arms, not sure about anywhere else in the dress, but I would think she would.  I think this was drama manufactured so they could go visit Renee.

I wish we could see more of Katie and had to laugh at the "potato" dress. I am glad she called Kelly Jo out on the dress from China. Trying to go cheap (I was going to say inexpensive, but I think cheap is a better word) is not always the way to go. The other girls dresses were nice, so what happened to Katies?

One thing I notice with all the kids is that they do seem to love each other and get along, not just for the cameras. Isaiah celebrating his actual birthday with Katie.  Nathan and Gil helping Jackson with the truck.
 

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58 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

One thing I notice with all the kids is that they do seem to love each other and get along, not just for the cameras. Isaiah celebrating his actual birthday with Katie.  Nathan and Gil helping Jackson with the truck.

I agree. The Bates kids seem to have fairly typical sibling relationships with each other. They seem to get along well and there is light teasing between them. I am sure they have their disagreements. They interact with each other so differently than the Duggar siblings. 

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1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

I thought I remembered last week that the NYC dressmaker said she had left 1/2" seam around the arms, not sure about anywhere else in the dress, but I would think she would.  I think this was drama manufactured so they could go visit Renee.

I wish we could see more of Katie and had to laugh at the "potato" dress. I am glad she called Kelly Jo out on the dress from China. Trying to go cheap (I was going to say inexpensive, but I think cheap is a better word) is not always the way to go. The other girls dresses were nice, so what happened to Katies?

One thing I notice with all the kids is that they do seem to love each other and get along, not just for the cameras. Isaiah celebrating his actual birthday with Katie.  Nathan and Gil helping Jackson with the truck.
 

Yeah.. I thought it was nice that all wanted to help Jackson with his clunker truck.  My heart skipped a beat when it took a few times to turn over - fearful he bought a truck that couldn't start. And its a good thing most of the menfolk are handy with tools and have a time/interest in fixing up an old hooptie. Wonder if he is going to trick it out. 😁

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On 2/9/2019 at 1:50 PM, Lisa418722 said:

I thought I remembered last week that the NYC dressmaker said she had left 1/2" seam around the arms, not sure about anywhere else in the dress, but I would think she would.  I think this was drama manufactured so they could go visit Renee.

That was clearly manufactured drama. The consultant who works for Leanne Marshall, Kourtney, specifically said that there was a 1/2 inch seam allowance in the sleeves. That was the scene where she told Josie she would want to let that out to let Josie dance. Kelly Jo quickly said to hug people. Kelly Jo immediately says Renee can fix that when Josie mentions taking It out a little. Note Josie says it is a little tight but move more easily there than at Renee's shop. 

It is truly bad editing that came off like Renee was criticizing Leanne Marshall's brand and work. Because when she and Josie come out to show the dress his week, Kelly Jo asks about the seam allowance only for Renee to say there is not one. She even deflects to Josie to confirm that she looked. Josie didn't confirm or deny. 

Why would either lie about something easily provable? Maybe it was an ego stroke for Renee who got to sell Tori her dress and all the bridesmaids dresses and was only doing alterations this time?  We got the theme of there being problem with dresses bought elsewhere.  

Katie said her mother bought the potato dress online from China. The others got their own dresses with the instructions as to color and floor length. Why was Kelly Jo buying Katie's? If Katie wasn't comfortable with the decision making, why not have Whitney, Josie, or even Carlin help?  

It seemed like a commercial for Renee the wedding saver. 

Edited by RebeccatheWriter
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22 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I agree. The Bates kids seem to have fairly typical sibling relationships with each other. They seem to get along well and there is light teasing between them. I am sure they have their disagreements. They interact with each other so differently than the Duggar siblings. 

They are so much kinder and generally sweeter people than the Duggars. The Duggars are so much more socially awkward, both with strangers, and siblings.  It’s gotta come from mom and dad, because they too seem more “normal” than Jim Bob and Michelle.

Something I noticed—couldn’t help it, but Josie looks bustier in her talking heads than in her wedding dress, for example.  At first I thought it was the style of the top of her talking head dress, but no...These must’ve been filmed after the wedding. Maybe she’s been eating—not dieting for the wedding dress, or birth control? A padded bra?

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23 minutes ago, zenme said:

They are so much kinder and generally sweeter people than the Duggars. The Duggars are so much more socially awkward, both with strangers, and siblings.  It’s gotta come from mom and dad, because they too seem more “normal” than Jim Bob and Michelle.

Something I noticed—couldn’t help it, but Josie looks bustier in her talking heads than in her wedding dress, for example.  At first I thought it was the style of the top of her talking head dress, but no...These must’ve been filmed after the wedding. Maybe she’s been eating—not dieting for the wedding dress, or birth control? A padded bra?

I noticed that she looked a lot bustier in her wedding dress after Miss Renee altered it. To me, it looked like Miss Renee completely changed how the top of the dress fit. I don’t know much about sewing or fashion, so I don’t know how to explain it well, but it looked much more fitted under Josie’s chest after the alterations. I was wondering if all the talk of lack of seams etc. was to justify Miss Renee taking the top apart and changing it. (I don’t know if that was her idea or Josie’s or Kelly’s). I thought the dress looked much better originally, including with the original lining. 

ETA: I’m referring to how the dress looked during the wedding, not in this episode. 

Edited by EVS · Reason: Clarity
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I liked how the dress looked the first time we saw it. It looked really great and great on Josie. Josie did look like she could easily move around in it. If there was a problem I'm not sure why not have the person who made the dress fix it. I didn't really like Renee trashing the other designer. It definitely came of as mad that she didn't get to make the dress like she did for Tori and Whitney just the bridesmaid dresses. 

So Best Mom in the World Kelly couldn't even order a dress right for Katie? If she's the good mom she claims to be shouldn't she know her daughter's size? This is now their fifth wedding and one vow renewal? It wasn't even that long ago since Tori's wedding.  I never stop loving all of these things Kelly can't do. Its always something she should be able to do if she was really parenting all her kids. 

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I can't blame Kelly for Katie's dress not fitting if she ordered it online.  Sizing from different manufacturer's can vary wildly.  Although if the other dresses were bought locally, it's odd they didn't just buy Katie's.  Things like that almost make me think a potato sack dress was bought deliberately for a story line.

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1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I can't blame Kelly for Katie's dress not fitting if she ordered it online.  Sizing from different manufacturer's can vary wildly.  Although if the other dresses were bought locally, it's odd they didn't just buy Katie's.  Things like that almost make me think a potato sack dress was bought deliberately for a story line.

I think you're right about the Sack Dress being a story line.  I agree about on line sizing being tricky but I thought besides the size,  the color of the Sack Dress was off as well as the style & material.  It didn't match the other bridesmaids.  (I know they each got to pick their own style but they still blended together & the Sack Dress didn't.)  It looked like it was a heavy polyester. Picking a color from an on line swatch is just as tricky as the sizing. I would think it could be altered if it was just the size.  

I'm still confused about Josie's dress.  Did she wear the one she tried on in NY or was another one made? If another one was made, why wasn't it made in a larger size so it could be altered properly? (But after reading the posts, it sounds like it could have been altered properly & they put the NY dress people under the bus.)

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Haven’t watched this season that closely but random thoughts:

The Evan and Carlin engagement was like the Bachelor, where they nervously rode in the limo to the engagement. I don’t get the point. I know a lot of regular couples get engaged on trips, but for people I know in real life – they didn’t 100% know they’d get engaged on the trip, nor did they know what day, etc. I realize it’s not that easy for the fundies bc if you are taking your first and only vacation ever with your gf and you’re bringing her and your parents and the trip is 2 days and engagement hasn’t happened for 1.85 days and you’re leaving in 3 hrs, well you know what happens next . . . . But the way he was saying that it was only fair that she be nervous in the limo bc he was nervous, I was like – damn – screw the family and ask her now, in the limo. Shun the tacky set up her sister and mother came up with it.  So what if it isn’t how she dreams with you “dancing” with her – most people WANT to live in real life, not in the fantasy they came up with at 5 years old.

Evan has kind of grown on me.  He doesn’t seem as loud or shrill as he did when he first appeared and in talking pre engagement with his brothers, he seemed like a planner/thoughtful. Maybe this is how he really is? I can see her tiring of Carlin, like Bobby has tired of Tori.

Carlin – while loud, shrill and not my favorite – is at least always nice to Evan. In contrast – see Tori.  WTF is up with that girl?? She is just downright rude to Bobby and Bobby seems over it.  When Evan comes in and sings his little ditty and presents Carlin with the $29 suitcase, Tori is SCREAMING how it was the best suprirse ever, even in her TH with Bobby.  Bobby looks annoyed and sarcastically says “way to go Evan.”  Reality is Bobby proposed to you not even a year ago, made you the center of attention, whisking you away in front of your whole class, driving you to Ashville or wherever with you asking every 7 seconds for the ring. And now merely one year later, it’s all forgotten and what your sister got 2 seconds ago is better??

To say nothing of her at the ultrasound place screaming about how the baby MUST have hair but he may not bc Bobby was bald. Bobby after a while seemed PISSED.  At one point Bobby even said – I think I was an adorable baby but apparently an adorable baby can’t be bald.  When she screamed the same thing to the receptionist, even tactless Kelly said “TORI! Sorry Bobby we tried to teach her tact” as Bobby said – “it didn’t stick, it wasn’t sticky tact . . . .”

Gotta love fundies. They are SOOOO sure they’ve raised their kids to be Godly that they must constantly obsess about their kids getting it on.  I mean Kelly needed to tell her 23-24 yr old soon to be son in law that the only reason he’s allowed on a bike ride with his soon to be fiancé is bc there are people on the street who can chaperone them? And then when Evan and Carlin are 10 min late, his dad jokingly goes – maybe they ran off and got married?! Uh – your son is 10 min late and you’re really wondering whether he can keep it in his pants???

I guess Apple is now a sponsor? As we were treated to multiple scenes of Gil saying “Siri call Carlin” “Siri call Evan.”

Interesting that Kelton keeps mentioning he wants a small apartment, on budget. He makes good money and seems to have a good head on his shoulders.  Sounds like he’ll treat Josie well – i.e. he’d be ok even in a trailer but he wants her to have what she wants and ultimately he was leaning towards the 2 bed even though it’s bigger that what they sought bc she loved it (though I thought she wanted to avoid sibling sleepovers?! Not gonna happen w a 2 bed Josie) and it’s close to her work. But it also sounds like they’ll live well bc he’s not going to be wasting $$ -- he may be considering 1-2 yrs in a reasonable apt until he has a down payment ready to go.

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1 hour ago, cereality said:

Gotta love fundies. They are SOOOO sure they’ve raised their kids to be Godly that they must constantly obsess about their kids getting it on.  I mean Kelly needed to tell her 23-24 yr old soon to be son in law that the only reason he’s allowed on a bike ride with his soon to be fiancé is bc there are people on the street who can chaperone them? And then when Evan and Carlin are 10 min late, his dad jokingly goes – maybe they ran off and got married?! Uh – your son is 10 min late and you’re really wondering whether he can keep it in his pants???

Hee! I was just thinking if it was Michelle Duggar she would have went on the bike ride with them.

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We all know that Josie will be pregnant sooner rather than later. What's the farce here about it being close to her work and wanting only 1 bedroom? They will need the 2nd bedroom early in their marriage AND she will quit her job as soon as she can. Neither one has stated that their plan is any different. 

Sorry to say, that with the awful white lining in her wedding gown, it looked no different than all the other wedding dresses out there. Too bad Kelly wouldn't let her daughter have the true dress she wanted. It looked stylish and a bit unique.

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22 hours ago, EVS said:

I noticed that she looked a lot bustier in her wedding dress after Miss Renee altered it. To me, it looked like Miss Renee completely changed how the top of the dress fit. I don’t know much about sewing or fashion, so I don’t know how to explain it well, but it looked much more fitted under Josie’s chest after the alterations. I was wondering if all the talk of lack of seams etc. was to justify Miss Renee taking the top apart and changing it. (I don’t know if that was her idea or Josie’s or Kelly’s). I thought the dress looked much better originally, including with the original lining. 

ETA: I’m referring to how the dress looked during the wedding, not in this episode. 

Leanne Marshall's designs are usually flowy and meant for very petite women with small busts. When she was on Project Runway, there was always a petal like look to her work that was whimsical and soft. Granted that was 10 years ago or so, but I remember her having a very soft style. If it had problems, it was always around the bust because she (like most designers) design for very thin and tall models. I remember liking her stuff, but thinking girl didn't know what to do with boobs. Back in the day it was always funny to watch these designers when they were tasked with a real woman rather than a model. They would freak out. 

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I think that the added white underlay emphasized her breasts and midsection, as the dress style was not intended to look that heavy on top. In costumes the nude material on dresses is called illusion fabric and gives the illusion that the dress is sort of floating around the woman rather than being one solid piece of material. Additionally, Josie (or Kelly Jo) wanted the waist taken in on the dress. When you add a heavier looking material to the top and take in the waist so that the skirt doesn't flow as naturally, you're going to look heavier on top. Leaving it as the nude illusion material would have helped to define the shape of her torso and bust without weighing it down. 

Edited by RebeccatheWriter
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I like her designs. Very flowy and feminine.

Regarding sleepovers, it's sad none of these kids can just be up front and say they don't want guests. The two-bedroom apartment would've made more sense. Not only because it's likely Josie will be pregnant soon, but because it's great to have an extra room and closet for storage. Maybe their ultimate goal is to spend as little as possible so they can save for a house, but Josie brought up the sleepover issue so much that I think it was a genuine factor in their decision. 

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