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Justified

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Recently, I rewatched the series pilot as well as the finale.  Both hold up extremely well, and there are a number of callbacks between them.  I miss this show. 

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From the old quotations thread:

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Just started watching justified, but my favorite so far:

Raylan to Boyd - "if you make me pull, I'll put you down"

This summer I listened to the audiobook version of The Hot Kid.  It was performed by Arliss Howard, who did a great job with various voices.  The titular character, a young U.S. marshal, says something quite similar to this line of Raylan's before just about every shooting.  I don't recall the line coming up in the short story that is the basis for Justified, so I wondered if this is a character element they transposed onto Raylan from Carl(os) Webster.  

Another interesting tidbit: the network wanted Justified to run for a 7th season.  From wikipedia:

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The decision to end the show was primarily based on lead actor Timothy Olyphant and series developer Graham Yost. FX network president John Landgraf said that, "They [Yost and Olyphant] felt that the arc of the show and what they had to say would be best served by six seasons instead of seven. Regretfully, I accepted their decision." Yost's comments were "Our biggest concern is running out of story and repeating ourselves. This was a long conversation. There were financial incentives to keep going, but it really felt, in terms of story, that six years felt about right."[23]

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I’m kinda sorta doing a rewatch. Every once in a while I’ll pop in an episode because I need some Raylan and Boyd and then I’ll keep going in order so right now I’m on season 2 and Raylan just handed Loretta that cell phone and....I just want to climb him like a tree.

Winona still drives me nuts. She’s pretty and I’d see why she couldn’t stay away from Raylan because duh but...she left him for Gary I assume while they were still married and she left Gary while they were still married and went straight to Raylan. Figure your shirt out first girl! And the whole money stealing thing later and almost getting Raylan into trouble and endangering his job when he tried so hard to walk away from the shit Arlo was involved in his whole life. Ugh. Dammit Winona. I assume they did it to make her interesting. 

Anyway. Season 2 is awesome. Introduced the Bennett’s and Loretta and somehow Boyd becomes attractive to me. 🙂

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22 hours ago, MissL said:

Anyway. Season 2 is awesome. Introduced the Bennett’s and Loretta and somehow Boyd becomes attractive to me. 🙂

Season 2 IS awesome except for the Winona storyline you mentioned.  For me, Season 4 is more consistent and therefore ranks first, with S2 second. 

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Also, for those who haven't heard, Walton Goggins is starring in a CBS sitcom called The Unicorn.  I have watched the first three episodes and while they have redeeming qualities, the show is still finding its tone.  This review gives a pretty good rundown.

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I just finished season 4 for the first time. I really liked it. I feel like some of my reactions are weird lol. I really wanted them to get Ellen May. Ava killed Delroy bc he was beating Ellen May and she turns her in? Fuck that. 

Also for some reason in Decoy I was sympathetic to the bad guys trying to get Shelby. They tried so hard, I felt like they deserved a win lol.

I haven't seen s. 5 or 6 yet 

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Cleo, I'm currently rewatching S4, with two episodes to go.  It is my favorite season of Justified, even ahead of S2, which I also like a lot.  Vulture's recap of the season finale pulls together a great analysis that dovetails with why I found this season so compelling.

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The mechanisms of how Raylan takes Nicky out are neither all that impressive or all that important. What’s important is the number of moral lines he’s prepared to cross in order to do it. Threatening Boyd Crowder with jail time in order to secure his cooperation is neither egregious or novel by this point, but there’s something about Raylan threatening to put Ava in jail that feels out of bounds, if not by legal standards than at least by narrative standards. Ava may be a criminal, but she’s our criminal, and her past relationship with Raylan only makes the threat feel grimier. This leads to one of those heart-to-hearts between Raylan and Boyd, wherein the latter questions the former about which side of the law he most comfortably rests on. One of the best things about Justified is that the title isn’t just a badass turn of phrase from the pilot. Graham Yost and company are constantly revisiting what it means to Raylan (and others) to be justified in taking their own measures to secure justice.

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Yeah I would say 2 and 4 are my faves so far. I also thought Mike O'Malley did a great job.

I did peek ahead at Ava's storyline in season 5, I'm kind of apprehensive. Not sure I will like the prison stuff but I'll stay with it.

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1 hour ago, cleo said:

I did peek ahead at Ava's storyline in season 5, I'm kind of apprehensive. Not sure I will like the prison stuff but I'll stay with it.

Cleo -- Justified is one of my all-time favorite shows. However, season 5 is my least favorite. If you find your interest drifting as you watch, hang in there because the final season is really great, with one of the best endings ever for a series.

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Agreed about the even seasons, though I also think season 1 got quite good once they got past the sort of procedural episodes and Boyd returned. 

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20 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I always thought the even seasons were the strongest-- 2, 4, 6. Two is my favorite.

It's a close call between 2 and 4, but I give 4 the edge because 2 has that silly sub-plot with Winona taking money.  

20 hours ago, justmehere said:

Cleo -- Justified is one of my all-time favorite shows. However, season 5 is my least favorite. If you find your interest drifting as you watch, hang in there because the final season is really great, with one of the best endings ever for a series.

I think 5 is pretty universally at the bottom of everyone's list.  But yes, S6 comes roaring back in great form, and the series finale is one of my favorite episodes of any show, ever.

20 hours ago, justmehere said:

Agreed about the even seasons, though I also think season 1 got quite good once they got past the sort of procedural episodes and Boyd returned. 

I agree.  The procedural episodes were entertaining, but for me the series stepped up a notch with 1-5, The Lord of War and Thunder, and even more with the Boyd-related episodes after that.  I thought S1 ended very strong.

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2 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

The procedural episodes were entertaining, but for me the series stepped up a notch with 1-5, The Lord of War and Thunder, and even more with the Boyd-related episodes after that.  I thought S1 ended very strong.

The Lord of War and Thunder was really good. The pilot was excellent. 1-2 through 1-4, and 1-6 are really the only ones that fall into the "just" enjoyable category. I blame the early style on network interference (though I have no proof), thinking they shouldn't jump into long story lines so that people wouldn't be confused. A wise choice, whoever made it, to abandon that track.

2 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

It's a close call between 2 and 4, but I give 4 the edge because 2 has that silly sub-plot with Winona taking money.  

Agreed about the Winona subplot. But season 2 still has an edge for me with the Bennett family. It's close, though. 

Oh man. I did a re-watch earlier this year. All this talk... I may have to watch again.

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36 minutes ago, Mr. R0b0t said:

Rappaport was a HUGE misfire in casting.  

I thought he did a great job from my recollection.

He played against type compared to his other roles and public persona.

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35 minutes ago, plurie said:

Timothy Oliphant had a guest starring role (as himself in full Raylan Givens mode) on THE GOOD PLACE last week.

So was he justified or another what are you doing here mistake?

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22 hours ago, Raja said:

So was he justified or another what are you doing here mistake?

The judge (Maya Rudolph) was a TO fan, so Janet conjured him up (dressed as Raylan) to butter her up.

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On 1/14/2020 at 6:14 AM, plurie said:

Timothy Oliphant had a guest starring role (as himself in full Raylan Givens mode) on THE GOOD PLACE last week.

OK, I definitely have to start watching TGP.

This backstory on TO's casting is very interesting.

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A bit more here.

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[Schurr] Well, it was important to me that he be Timothy Olyphant and not Raylan Givens, but the more we thought about it, the more we were like, “I want him to be at the Raylan Givens edge of his many personas.” I love that show so much, and I love that character, and I felt like he as a performer was so at home in that character, and then for the little comedy game of just casually throwing questions out and being sort of lackadaisically charming… when I asked him to do it, he said, “Am I me, or am I Raylan?” And I said, “No, you’re you, but I think I want you to be Raylan-y.” And his question was, “Full Stetson?” [Laughs] I said, “Yeah, I think ideally full Stetson.”

 

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I missed Justified in its original run, and always hoped to go back and try it because of the good things I've heard.  It came back to Hulu recently, so I decided to give it a try.  On the whole I really enjoyed it.  It's the sort of show you can obsess over.  I liked all the recurring character arcs - their story continuity was exceptional.  This holds up really well in a streaming era.

I struggled with the first half of the first season.  Raylan alone was not interesting enough to me.  Bringing Boyd in to complete the other side of the picture was what made me keep going.  I saw a piece of trivia on imdb.com that they originally intended to kill off Boyd in the first episode.  I'm glad they changed the plan, because without the adversarial dynamic between the two of them I don't think this would have worked nearly as well.

I didn't always like Raylan.  Timothy Olyphant's performance grew on me with time, but the character was arrogant and often aimless.  In the end Boyd was the most compelling character to me.  Walton Goggins was really, really good at his different moods and personas.  You could see when he switched gears mid-scene from one tactic and mannerism to another as the character recalculated.  They did a great job of setting him up against characters who were more despicable than him, and having him trying to achieve his own American dream.  I could still often root for him, in spite of what he was.  My interest in Ava varied, and I didn't care for the prison story line at all.  I see others above commented that Season 5 isn't well liked, and I felt the same.  All the marshals - Art, Gutterson, Rachel - were fun characters.  I sometimes wish the show had spent more time on them.  The recurring character casting was amazing, and I think it's a major strength of this show.

The Season 6 wrap-up was very good.  I wasn't sure how they would find a way to bring things to a close, but they did as well as I think they could possibly have done.  There is one aspect that I feel they glossed over - the lack of consequences for Raylan.  I recognize that he's the hero, but he did a lot of shady things that never caught up with him.

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If I Wrote a Coronavirus Episode

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[Set in the time of “Fire in the Hole,” the Elmore Leonard story on which the series is based.]

Timing couldn’t be worse, said Devil, slouching into the falling-down church, swastikas and Aryan Brotherhood symbols on the wall. “How’re we gonna move on that bank with all the gov’mint types and the federal medical-swabbing and taking jabs, testing for the corona. You ask me, there ain’t nothing the matter; they’re just gonna use it to impose martial law.” “I didn’t ask you,” said Boyd Crowder. “And you’re wrong — the timing couldn’t be better. We set off a charge under a car in the ARH parking lot by the quarantine tents, the hospital’ll go into lockdown, the police and federals guarding it, everyone jumpy ’cause of the virus. While we stroll into the bank in Somerset, mostly empty ’cause of the distancing, and no one suspecting us, because us and everyone else, well, we’re supposed to be wearing masks.” Devil smiled, having not thought of it that way, why he was glad to be in Crowder’s Commandos, the way Boyd’s mind worked.

Dewey Crowe came through the door, breathing hard, Boyd asking if he was normally this out of breath walking up the church steps, an edge to the question, the way everyone was now with any sneeze or cough. Dewey said he’d been to see Ava, but there was a federal there, said he knew Boyd, but he’d run him off. “No, you didn’t,” said Boyd, looking past Dewey through the door. “He followed you.”

Boyd watched a man get out of a Town Car, putting on a cowboy hat as he walked like Gary Cooper toward the church. It’d been 20 years since Boyd’d seen him — the hat was new — but you spend 12 hours a day with a man
you never forget his walk. Devil joined Boyd in the doorway, asking who this was. “That there is Raylan Givens,” said Boyd. “We dug coal together.”
—Graham Yost

 

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I'm just watching season 6. When I'm done I'll read the thread but I had to post how stupid it is they take no precautions to hide when Raylan and Ava are meeting. Like he goes to her work place, he drives her home in ep 5. It's beyond ridiculous.

Then the scene with the prison guard. So he is getting tased, the bad guys leave, the marshals go into his room and within seconds walk out the door fully vested. Like completely no thought that the bad guys could still be in the parking lot.

These guys must get their CIs killed on a regular basis.

I like the Choo Choo guy. 

Great to see Patton Oswalt again. 

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I'm only just now watching this - most of the way through season 1, and trying to avoid spoilers, but can some one help me understand - some things take place in Harlan, and some in Lexington.  Google maps tell me they're about 3 hours apart, although I know they may take liberties in the show.  So, what is happening in Lexington, and what in Harlan?  (focusing on S1, if possible)  I feel like I haven't paid close enough attention.

ETA Wikipedia helped me out a bit.  The US Marshall's office is in Lexington, and Harlan is within its jurisdiction.  So most of Raylan's "old friends" are probably in the Harlan area.  Still a little confusing, though, and it seems like it's a trivial drive down the road to get from one to the other.

Edited by SoMuchTV · Reason: add'l info
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I know I’m late to the party but I had to laugh at the timeliness (or anti-timeliness) of a quote in s2e3. Redneck unsuccessfully trying to buy a disguise in a store:  “I thought this was America! Can’t a man buy a mask in America?”

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SoMuchTv I had a hard time keeping track of the locations, maybe bc I'm not from the US. I kind of gave up and stopped thinking about it.

ETA aeason 2 is fantastic. 

Edited by cleo
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On 7/19/2020 at 10:00 PM, SoMuchTV said:

ETA Wikipedia helped me out a bit.  The US Marshall's office is in Lexington, and Harlan is within its jurisdiction.  So most of Raylan's "old friends" are probably in the Harlan area.  Still a little confusing, though, and it seems like it's a trivial drive down the road to get from one to the other.

I think you've got this about right.  The stuff at the office and courthouse and in Winona's house or Raylan's apartment take place in Lexington.  Depending on where one is headed in Harlan County, the drive would seem to require a minimum of 2. 5 hours.  So any time Raylan is visiting his father or Mags or anything to do with Boyd or Ava will have necessitated a fair bit of driving.  The show does seem to skirt over this a bit, but I don't think it affects story lines very much.  

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Well I just finished season 6. In general I liked it, but a couple things I really hated so I'll start with that. 

things I hated- 

-Ava was only in jail bc a guard was pissed off he couldn't rape her. Bc the original charges related to Delroy were dropped IIRC. Admittedly dropped bc of shenanigans but she was supposed to be released and then a guard got pissy bc he couldn't rape her.  So that really soured me on Raylan and the marshals using her bc she shouldn't have been in jail in the first place. Every convo he had with her, pressuring her when she was a CI pretty much turned my stomach. 

-secondly Rachel- what the hell did this actress do to piss off the writers? So she is made the boss for the whole season and then demoted bc of some bullshit that is never really explained so the old retired guy can come back for the last episodes? Don't get me wrong, I like Art but what was the point of the Rachel character all season? I wasn't really into her being the chief bc it was out of the blue and they made her one-dimensional, but then to have her pulled like that? From start to finish it made no sense from a story perspective and the way it played out just left a sour taste in my mouth, but can;t say more than that without getting political lol. They should have just said she was acting chief while he was recuperating.

-things I liked:

well everything else lol. The subplot with Avery/Katherine/Wynn was enjoyable, esp liked towards the end how all of the characters were dealing with the fact that they can't trust anyone. I almost enjoyed this subplot more than the Raylan and Boyd stuff, bc at times I wasn't into Raylan's chase of Boyd. 

-I was curious what happened to Loretta and was disappointed they didn't address it, but I always enjoyed her appearances. She is a good actress and I hope her career goes well if she decides to continue

-loved Patton Oswalt's brief cameos

-bad guys are always entertaining, like Choo Choo and Boone at the end. 

-enjoyed Raylan and Boyd's convo at the end.

All in all a great series and I'll probably rewatch it. I went through a period of time where I read a lot of Elmore Leonard's books. Some of them are quite good and I enjoyed this show more than the two movie adaptations. I'm not even sure the movies were based on his best books, although they all blur together for me at this point. 

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On 8/18/2020 at 9:44 PM, cleo said:

-loved Patton Oswalt's brief cameo

...

-enjoyed Raylan and Boyd's convo at the end.

I also just finished season 6.

Constable Bob for the win!

”We dug coal together” one more time!

Now I’m off to read the comments in the vault. 

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On 8/18/2020 at 8:44 PM, cleo said:

-Ava was only in jail bc a guard was pissed off he couldn't rape her. Bc the original charges related to Delroy were dropped IIRC. Admittedly dropped bc of shenanigans but she was supposed to be released and then a guard got pissy bc he couldn't rape her.  So that really soured me on Raylan and the marshals using her bc she shouldn't have been in jail in the first place. Every convo he had with her, pressuring her when she was a CI pretty much turned my stomach. 

Agreed 100%. At one point Rachel/Tim are like joking and high fiving with the rapist prison guard and it felt so gross to me. They also have Boyd relate to him and let him go in S5? It seemed like they wanted us to see the guard as a pitiable character but it only made me uncomfortable.

Honestly, quite a few moments in S5/S6 where Raylan or Boyd pressure Ava make me uncomfortable in the context of Ava being a victim of domestic violence for a long time. But at least I feel the writers understand that and are doing it on purpose. 

 

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Justified team reunites to develop Elmore Leonard novel at FX.

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The team behind “Justified” is reuniting to develop an FX series based on the Elmore Leonard novel “City Primeval: High Noon in Detroit,” with Timothy Olyphant potentially returning as Raylan Givens, Variety has learned exclusively.

“Justfied” creator Graham Yost will serve as executive producer, with “Justified” writers and executive producers Michael Dinner and Dave Andron onboard to co-write, executive produce, and serve as co-showrunners. Dinner will also direct. Chris Provenzano, Sarah Timberman and Carl Beverly of Timberman-Beverly, VJ Boyd, and Taylor Elmore will all return as executive producers. Peter Leonard of the Elmore Leonard Estate will executive produce in association with MGM. Walter Mosely will serve as a consulting producer, as will Ingrid Escajeda. Eisa Davis will produce. Sony Pictures Television will serve as the studio, as they did on “Justified.”

Um, I'll take some of that, please.

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I would bet Raylan showing up would be something like the Karen Sisco appearance on Justified 

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I am a bit skeptical. I think its gonna be hard to catch lightning in a bottle a second time, esp without the foil of Boyd Crowder/Walton Goggins. Maybe they can wrangle a few cameos from the likes of Wynn Duffy et al, but the redneck setting of the original was part of the charm. And some of his antics may not be seen as favorably in todays climate as they once were. 

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I'm down for this! I live near Detroit so maybe I can get a T.O. sighting! Loved him in Deadwood.

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No definite timetable so maybe later this year if filming goes right.

 

 

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OK, I just binge-watched this end-to-end, and Boyd's memory for quotes always amazed me. In fact, Boyd's memory, period, was amazing. He was Sheldon Cooper if he was raised by dirt poor criminals in Kentucky instead of a middle-class family in East Texas.

I'll give the spin-off a look so I can drool over Olyphant, but I don't think it will be compelling without a Boyd-type foil.

 

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