Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[QuelleC]

I'm going to have to disagree about the dress.  It should have been much better fitted on top (not gaping when she moved around) and it could lose that cheap looking trim around the neck.  I like the general style but I was hoping for something with a cleaner look.  Her hair looked nice though. 

 

Why didn't Caroline take off that poopy jacket?  Surely the dress was cleaner underneath.  The bobbing up and down without the heel made me laugh out loud too. I was trying to figure out if she was doing lefty loosey-righty tighty the wrong way but she was in fact trying to turn it left. 

 

Aldi's does in fact let you sit down at the register. They also have you buy steel toed shoes so you can unload crates off the truck at 6am and I've never seen anyone but middle aged women working there.  Like most places you're expected to run back and forth and do stocking every second you can get away. They get holidays off, pretty rare, but they seem unhappier than my coworkers at my last job where we were required to stand 10 hours a day with no lunch break, 2 10 min breaks (if you're lucky).  Not sure why that is but I'm applying and I'll let you know. I think Gillian just gets to sit at the register. 

 

Overall I really liked this episode, we needed some humor.  Enough of Gary already.  What did he say he spent 100,000 pounds on?  I suppose he's there to give Alan something better to do than read a newspaper or drive around the country.  I don't like Mrs. Gary at all but at least she's giving Gary a hard time. I agree with someone else who said the money is messing with the working class dynamics of this show. 

 

John needs to go.  Goodbye finally, Kate. 

[Quilt Fairy]

I thought the sweetest scene was in Caroline's dining room when the whole house-hold (related, unrelated and ex-related) was sitting around the table reading and Caroline was absent-mindedly pushing Flora's cradle with her foot.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[JudyObscure]

I really thought that one of the "oh, and another thing" secrets that Gillian was going to reveal to Caroline was that the reason she took so long in the bathroom (at home) was she did a pregnancy test and discovered she was pregnant and it could be the Cheese Man or John or Robbie, she's not sure who.

I thought that was coming, too, but I'm so glad they didn't go there. Gillian may be incapable of resisting the call of the quickie but she's also smart and self-aware enough to have a nice secure device of some kind, if not a tubal ligation. Come to think of it, Robbie, having been adopted, may want a child of his own and that might be a problem for a woman with a job, a farm, a grandchild and random Cheese Men to keep her busy.

Put me down as loving John and falling about laughing at all his childish, transparent attempts to get people to like him, sleep with him, amuse him and generally take care of him.

[Milz]

I thought that was coming, too, but I'm so glad they didn't go there. Gillian may be incapable of resisting the call of the quickie but she's also smart and self-aware enough to have a nice secure device of some kind, if not a tubal ligation. Come to think of it, Robbie, having been adopted, may want a child of his own and that might be a problem for a woman with a job, a farm, a grandchild and random Cheese Men to keep her busy.

Put me down as loving John and falling about laughing at all his childish, transparent attempts to get people to like him, sleep with him, amuse him and generally take care of him.

 

I think Gillian having sex with Cheese Man and foreplay with John was because she realized she didn't want to marry Robbie and wanted to get caught to call it off. And I think Caroline realized that too when she told Gillian to go through with the wedding because they could always get divorced.

 

But I loved Caroline's reaction when Gillian said John thought Caroline and Greg were sleeping together and John's bonding with Greg behind her back.

 

Totally OT, I love ALDI. It's my favorite grocery store: it's inexpensive, it has the "basics", and it has really good imported chocolates!

[shandy]

Totally OT, I love ALDI. It's my favorite grocery store: it's inexpensive, it has the "basics", and it has really good imported chocolates!

 

But they don't have cheese guys in straining yellow tees blowing air up a cougar's skirt. Yorkshire grocery stores are racey affairs, with items PBS daren't mention snaking across the floor and virile dairymen prowling the aisles.  

[Milz]

But they don't have cheese guys in straining yellow tees blowing air up a cougar's skirt. Yorkshire grocery stores are racey affairs, with items PBS daren't mention snaking across the floor and virile dairymen prowling the aisles.  

 

Unfortunately they don't have Cheese Men . Nor do they have that kind of "personal device", but they've had personal devices like heart rate watches and electric shavers. :-)

[dcalley]

I think Gillian having sex with Cheese Man and foreplay with John was because she realized she didn't want to marry Robbie and wanted to get caught to call it off.

Yep, and she had a great excuse to call it off herself (Robbie being drunk & sick at the altar), and she passed it up. Gah! I don't even know why the man marrying them went on with it, unless everyone really believed Robbie's assertions that it was a stomach bug and not alcohol that made him sick.

[JudyObscure]

Yes, I think if you're sick enough to be vomiting at the altar you should do the decent thing and pass out before the vows.

[peeayebee]

I'm just trying to get caught up on the shows.

 

I'm glad for the explanation of what happened in the market. I had no idea a dildo was involved.

 

I couldn't believe how selfish Celia was being in refusing to go to the wedding -- or should I type "wedding" since she actually did air quotes when she said it. I didn't agree but could understand her getting upset with Alan about his affair. Well, hardly an affair or even a fling. A one-and-done. Anyway, I figured she would be upset, but to sulk about it and refuse to go to the wedding, even after Caroline reminded her of the time Celia didn't come to her graduation (or whatever the event was). Just incredibly selfish, self-centered, martyr-like. I believe she said that she didn't want to subject everyone to her sadness. Boo-f'ing-hoo. It just really pissed me off.

 

However, as others have said, Anne Reid is so good in the role. 

 

I didn't really understand why Caroline told Alan he wasn't welcome. Is she holding his affair against him as well?

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm really glad they skipped over the rest of the ceremony and jumped to the reception, because the thought of having to kiss someone who just vomited grosses me out.

[peeayebee]

The writer said she couldn't think of another way to bring Celia and Caroline back together, if you can believe it.

I wasn't spoiled, so I didn't know that Kate was going to die, but I did know that something tragic would happen to heal the rift betw Caroline and Celia. It's just what too many writers do. 

 

I think Gary's wife, Felicity, has an alcohol problem (the way she kept downing the wine) 

I think that might be true. When Gary handed her the bottle of wine, he was going to pour, but she kind of yanked it away. At first I thought we'd learn that he's very controlling, but maybe the thing is that he knows how she gets. Actually, I guess it can be a little of both. She resents his controlling tendencies, and he sees her as needing control.

[peeayebee]

Boy, my eyes are still burning from crying. I agree with others here at how fantastic SL was in this whole ep. (Of course in the rest of the series, too.)

 

I watched it again and Gary was saying that he was just now taking it all in and he was overwhelmed about it all and Gillian seemed to suddenly get very concerned and said, "Calm down!" three times.    

He had also gotten really ticked off that his tea hadn't arrived yet. I believe that is what really prompted Gillian to say to calm down.

 

I'm not sure what to think of him. There's definitely something going on with him that we don't know yet, and I think there's something with his marriage, too. 

 

I wonder about the people whose car struck Kate. I immediately wondered if they were upper class and if we'll see some comparison betw how they are treated and how Harry was treat by the courts. 

 

I loved the little joke when Celia and the others were talking about the bio-dad, and Celia couldn't remember his name -- "Gavin… Gareth… Gilbert..." And then William says, "Gandalf?"

Edited August 4, 2015 by peeayebee

[attica]

Is at-altar smooching a thing these days in the UK? It didn't used to be, if Four Weddings and a Funeral is the documentary I assume it is...

[peeayebee]

I also laughed when Alan gets a call from Gary and you see Celia mouth "Oh God".  Then whispers "Tell him no more football." 

 

As in real life, I hate when bystanders keep talking or even mouthing words to others who are on the phone. Seems like a lot of characters do this on the show.

 

The way they keep changing actors, I thought maybe he was supposed to be the young friend of her son's from season one, but a little research shows that was Paul and this one is Wally.

 

Thanks for checking that out. I was wondering the same thing.

 

Gary, Greg. Why couldn't the two new male characters have more dissimilar names?

 

ARGH! Yes! This bugs me so much. I figure it was done intentionally, but I don't see why. Anyway, I keep getting confused. When I saw the blurb for this show, something like "Greg turns out to be a big help to Caroline," I kept picturing Gary helping with the baby, and I was curious how that would happen.

 

I really like Greg. The actor, and character, remind me of Chris O'Dowd. He's quirky and easy-going. I hope there's nothing negative beneath the surface. I don't expect there to be.

 

I also hope Gary doesn't have nefarious purposes, and that he's just overly excited to have a dad and a family that he had missed out on growing up.

 

I don't mind Ghost-Kate. I think she's a lovely presence next to Caroline.

[Milz]

It's a wonder that Robbie's upchuck didn't cause spontaneous upchucking (yeah, I watched Stand By Me back in the day).

 

But I was at a wedding once, there the groom passed out during the ceremony. The official story was that he didn't eat anything that morning and the church was hot, so he fainted. It didn't explain why he reeked of booze when he arrived at church but that was the "official" story.

[peeayebee]

I've about had it with Gillian. Caroline is a saint to put up with her.

 

And I'm sick of John's schtick. He needs a 'WAH-waaaah' sound to follow him everywhere.

 

I'm glad Alan softened up and started speaking civilly to Gary.

 

Loved Caroline bobbing up and down on her broken shoe.

 

I'll watch again next season (and hopefully catch it when it first airs here in the US), but I hope it's better. 

[Anothermi]

I can't remember if it was when Caroline reminded Celia about not coming to her graduation or another interaction, but she said at some point that when her mother hurt her like that (not coming to her graduation) she told her (actual) father - who did come - there was no point in him being there. It seems it's her way of coping with the pain her mother caused her.

 

I saw her as both hurt and angry, so she lashed out at the men she didn't care as much about - and who were the "cause" of her mother's behavior. She seems to have learned that behaviour from her mother. i.e. If someone close to you causes you pain, lash out against someone else close to you.

 

At least Caroline chose to lash out at the the men involved with her mother instead of following Celia's lead and lashing out at her own children. [/small mercies]

Edited August 5, 2015 by Anothermi

[Anothermi]

Gary comes across as a very "me" kind of guy, not so much a "we" kind of guy. At the 1st visit to his home his wife had to provide the fact that she had a part in his successful business because he didn't credit her with any part of it. It may be a deep seated feeling of lack of worth for which he is overcompensating. His father (mother's husband) may have been distant due to not being the biological father. That seems to be the case with his desperate attempts to gain favour with his bio father and family so it could easily affect his own family's relationships. Or, we may get more of his wife's story next series?

[shandy]

One of the things I love about Caroline's portrayal is that she's clearly like her mother but not tragically so - it's a clever potrayal- i.e. she fights super hard to overcome it and not let her parents' terrible marriage dictate her life. 

[dcalley]

On Gary/Greg confusion: I believe we saw Gary first, and that name is alphabetically before Greg, so that's how I'm trying to keep them straight. But because we heard about Greg first (though not by name?), this trick doesn't work perfectly for me. And I'm sure I will have forgotten all this by the time the next series airs anyway.

[whatsatool]

Actually I can't understand why Gary wants to foist himself onto a family that is so unrelentingly gloomy.

[izabella]

I suppose the next season will be filled with the trials and tribulations of Gillian and Robbie's marriage.  Just can't imagine her being faithful to him if John is still around.  And then there's the truth about Gillian's husband's death....

 

Gillian had 101 reasons not to marry Robbie, and she still did it.  I don't understand why she went through with it. 

[Valny]

I noticed something for the first time rewatching episode five of S1. I've seen this ep quite a few times too.  After a drunk Judith accidentally cuts her wrist and gets blood all over Caroline, there's a scene with Lawrence and Kate in the kitchen when he gets the call from Gillian.

I never noticed that both Lawrence and Kate have blood on them...at least that's what it looked like. He has some on his collar and neck and little on the side of his face and she has some on her neck.  I'm guessing they must have gotten it by helping out Caroline. But we never see that. I'm wondering if that was a deleted scene.  I know in the US they cut out some scenes but I recently watched on YouTube where these eps are the same as the UK version and I didn't see anything with them helping her, so I figure it was a scene that wasn't in the ep or it was cut out. I'm thinking it was a deleted scene because they really didn't even have to put blood on them. 

 

Anyone notice the blood?  I think the only reason I noticed is because I watched on my bigger 42" tv as opposed to the one in my room which is only 27"

Edited August 13, 2015 by Valny

[Quilt Fairy]

Happy Valley DVDs are going to be available through the BBC shop on 10/15/15.

 

http://shop.bbc.com/us/mystery+suspense/happy-valley-season-1/invt/19890?utm_source=us-miss-marple-9-15-15&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=

[Valny]

Happy Valley DVDs are going to be available through the BBC shop on 10/15/15.

 

http://shop.bbc.com/us/mystery+suspense/happy-valley-season-1/invt/19890?utm_source=us-miss-marple-9-15-15&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=

 

Any extras on those?  I've seen Happy Valley four times(and I'll probably watch it again somewhere down the line)  so I would never buy them, but I do love me some extras.

[Quilt Fairy]

Nothing mentioned about extras. Sorry.

[Quilt Fairy]

Happy Valley S1 is now also available on Amazon instant video.

[QuinnM]

 

Happy Valley S1 is now also available on Amazon instant video.

 

Oh my gosh!  I'm so excited.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[iggysaurus]

I didn't see it mentioned by anyone, that not only did Celia make snarky remarks about Caroline and Kate being lesbians, but she also made some racist comment! She was talking about the baby being confused about who its mother was, and then said "Well I guess at least it'll learn its colors pretty quickly - one black one and one white one" or something like that (referring to Kate being black or biracial).  I know Celia's a product of her upbringing and her age, but she really does come across as nasty and judgmental! But what can we expect from a Daily Mail reader, hah. ;) 

[iggysaurus]

Wow, even drunk, that's a hell of a thing to say more or less unprovoked to someone on their wedding day (or ever). No wonder Kate and Caroline thought she was kidding, it's really the only possible semi-sane reaction.

 

Not saying it was necessarily justified, but Gillian sent that text because she heard that Caroline had turned Alan away when he showed up for the wedding, which I think most can agree was cruel.  She heard from Alan what happened, said she wanted to text her something to the effect of "eff off, bitch" but didn't at that moment, and presumably did it later when she was drunk with John and had her inhibitions lowered.  It's still way out of line, but I can understand her anger at Caroline for how she treated Alan when he arrived at the wedding. 

[dustylil]

Nicola Walker is currently in the "haunting" six-part BBC-Netflix police drama River with Stellan Skarsgard. He is a senior police officer and she plays his former partner. It is quite good and the supporting cast is stellar.

[DHDancer]

Nicola Walker is currently in the "haunting" six-part BBC-Netflix police drama River with Stellan Skarsgard. He is a senior police officer and she plays his former partner. It is quite good and the supporting cast is stellar.

 

I was just coming here to post this as well.   I watched all 6 episodes back-to-back this weekend and cannot recommend it highly enough.  It is INTENSE but it needs to be.  I've always loved Stellan Skarsgard so watched this for him but I have to say Nicola was just fabulous in her role (and the other supporting cast weren't shabby either).

 

Check it out on Netflix.

[becauseIsaidso]

I have seen and loved season 3...but what I really want to know now is whether there was a season 4 and when/where the heck I can find it!...

 

Loved Kate, not so sure about Caroline, have NEVER EVER cared for Celia the bitch, yet enjoyed Alan and ESPECIALLY want Jillian and Robbie to get as much happily ever after as possible...after killing off the wonderful Kate, is that really too much to ask?

[Quilt Fairy]

It's been renewed for a season 4 but it hasn't been written much less filmed yet.

[atomationage]

Nicola Walker was also in Unforgotten, which I liked better than River, and also had a great supporting cast., imdb.:

 

 

Police start to investigate when the bones of a young man are found under the footings of a demolished house 39 years after his murder.

[vadare]

I've borrowed all three seasons from my public library.  I'm almost done with Season 3 and part of me can't wait for Season 4.  There's another part of me that wonders if killing Kate off didn't just Jump the Shark.

 

Someone upthread said "Gary is trying too hard".  ITA  And I do wonder if there's some hidden agenda there.  Or maybe some mental illness?

 

Re:  Caroline/Greg potential--To whoever is the captain of that ship...permission to come aboard?

 

There's a couple of ways that they could do it...maybe Caroline is bisexual?  Or maybe she just falls in love with a person regardless of their gender?  (For example, there is an argument that's been made that Ennis [the Heath Ledger character] in Brokeback Mountain wasn't really gay; he just fell in love with Jack, the first person to show any kind of care for him, and Jack just happened to be a guy.  Jack, OTOH, was gay.) 

 

I don't think Greg is the idiot Ginika (Kate's mother) thinks he is, but I suspect that's just academic snobbery on her part.  SHE's a professor at a prestigious university; he draws grown-up cartoons.  Caroline isn't quite the snob Ginika is, so her opinion may be more easily swayed.

 

(Sidebar:  LOVE the name Ginika...and Abitha, Kate's middle name.  And Michelle Hurst is always welcomed on my screen.)

 

Anyway, if Caroline and Greg got together, I can't imagine what the hell that would do to John.

 

But John...damn, dude!  I am not engaging in any hyperbole when I say he's the most pathetic character I've ever seen on television.  And I've never yelled "just shut up!" at a screen more than I have at John in this show.

 

The only character I've yelled at a little less on this show is Gillian.  Gillian, Gillian, Gillian...what a mess you are!  When she told Caroline she and Robbie were getting married and Caroline was like "whatever", then Gillian gets in her car and mutters "like I need your permission" I yelled at the TV "Then why did you just ask for it?"  SMDH

 

And Robbie...I love Robbie and, since I have a weakness for the type of men my gay best friend has taught me are classified as "bears", Dean Andrews is totally hawt!  Robbie must really love Gillian to put up with her completely cocked-up existence.  I swear, if Gillian and Robbie get married (I haven't watched all of the last episode yet) and Gillian cheats on him, I'm done with her and, probably, the show as well.  <grrrrrrr!>

 

Has anyone else noticed the near-parallel of Alan and Celia being reunited after 60+ years compared to Robbie's telling Gillian "it's been you since I was 16 years old"?

 

Can't wait to finish the last episode and for next season!!

[atomationage]

Derek Riddell, the actor who played Catherine's  husband in the first series is in a new series, Undercover.  I watched the first episode, which takes place mostly in Louisiana.  I don't know if they stay back in England for the rest of the series.

Edited April 11, 2016 by atomationage

[Hawk]

Typical way to deal with lesbian characters...kill one of them.

I never expected this from a British television show.

How very disappointing.  I liked Caroline and Kate.

[Valny]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2015 at 5:07 PM, AlwaysWatching said:

  Hide contents

http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv/news/a625897/last-tango-in-halifax-to-return-for-fourth-series.html

 

hmmm...interesting

Anyone know of anything happening for season four? I've seen another article where it said they would be back(in the UK) in early 2016.   But I don't even think that has happened yet right?  The faster it airs over there, the quicker we get it here in the US.

[dcalley]

@Valny, I found this tweeted image that says it will not be back until 2017 in the UK.

Edited July 9, 2016 by dcalley

[Valny]

Aw crap.  Thanks dcalley!

[maraleia]

Sally apologizing for Kate's death again. This time in conversation with openly gay showrunner Russell T. Davies http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/09/06/last-tango-in-halifax-creator-killing-lesbian-character-was-a-mistake/

[formerlyfreedom]

Two part Christmas special airing on BBC1 starting Monday, 12/19, with the conclusion on Tuesday, 12/20.

Quote

After farewells and a pause for breath, the run-up to Christmas actually brings out the specials. The relatively thin weekend makes way for the two-part festive Last Tango in Halifax, starting on Monday (BBC1 9pm). Writer Sally Wainwright takes up the story two years after Kate’s tragic death to see how the three variously touchy, moody, grieving, jittery, carping, jovial generations are coping with changes in their personal and professional lives.

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Caroline's new headship involves the family moving to a ramshackle farmhouse in Huddersfield in time for Christmas. Alan has a difficult conversation with Gillian about where he'd like to be buried. Meanwhile, Gillian is consumed by thoughts of the afterlife convinced she's being haunted by Eddie.

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Caroline tells Gillian the truth about why she had to take the new headship, and Gillian's mounting guilt over Eddie's death drives her to make a life-changing decision. Celia takes to the stage in the local production of Blithe Spirit and a twist of fate means Alan is forced to confront his fears.

[GinnyMars]

Excellent news, thanks Saoirse!

It's not replacing the fourth series, right? That's still coming, and we still don't know when? Have they even set a date to start filming? Has she even written it yet?

[possibilities]

Are we getting this in the USA, also, or is that still unknown?

[kieyra]

I'm about halfway through S2. I jumped over from Happy Valley. I like the things it has in common with that show (the rich setting and dialogue, and with more than a touch of HV's darkness), but I'm struggling with the characters. Not in the standard "these characters are unlikeable" way,  but rather that they seem to change too abruptly, or are missing lots of development. 

Where I am now, Alan has swung back and forth between unquestioning support of Gillian and simply writing her off as a murderess. This has been the weirdest for me.

Robbie swung from being a hostile jackass to being in love with Gillian so fast it gave me whiplash.

Caroline seems utterly uninterested in Kate most of the time, but then immediately has her move in (then whiplash with the baby stuff)  

Then there are these strange situations that are allowed to go on for a weirdly long time: Paul Jatri just hanging around while people try to dump him on each other? Why did that character exist? Why is John allowed to come and go in everyone's homes, especially in S1, when he's obviously an *out of control*, abusive alcoholic? How does everyone just accept that there's an unnamed baby in a milk crate who has been semi-abandoned by her teenaged parents? 

John in particular seems so one-note and underdeveloped. He's just a whiny man-baby asshat. What does he do all day? Didn't they mention him having some job besides has-been writer? He was obviously successful at one point; does he really have no other friends or associates to occupy his time so he doesn't just drunkenly bounce between Caroline, Gillian and Judith? Why on earth is he obsessed with Gillian?

Why doesn't Gillian see he's worthless? How much credulity am I supposed to give to the idea that Gillian's sole character beat is that she's addicted to making really bad choices in who she sleeps with?

And I really don't know what to do with the Eddie story. I just keep waiting for the next reveal from Alan to Celia: "oh, there's one more thing I didn't tell you, it weren't suicide, it were actually our Gillian with the log splitter". And Celia will remain totally chill about it.

Well, this was more of a rant than I expected, I was just really excited for this show after Happy Valley, but now I'm struggling to find a way in or a person to root for.

[kieyra]

A bit into season 3, two thoughts:

1) I guess I had it right about Gillian being a murderer after all (previous post). I didn't expect the extenuating circumstances, though.

2) I absolutely did not expect this particular show to swan-dive so carelessly into the dead lesbian trope. The day after their wedding, naturally. As soon as Caroline said she was happy and closed the front door I knew Kate was a goner. I shouldn't instinctively know something like that. 

I'm finding the show a bit more cohesive than I did when I wrote the previous post, and Gillian's making a little more sense--although she really needs to quit drinking--but the soap elements are bugging (so many babies, lost lost relatives, tragically-timed lesbian deaths, etc). Still, it's an enjoyable Christmas binge.

[GinnyMars]

Where is everyone?

This Christmas special started out slow, but was really charming in the end.

I thought that final scene made it look quite like a series finale though. I hope that's not it! I want to go back to Halifax soon.