Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[Quilt Fairy]

Don't know how I forgot it but  I need to add The Crown (the first 2 seasons).

[lidarose9]

Finally watched this and was so disappointed. I found the whole business about Caroline and the teacher Ruth so unbelievable, on so many different levels, and so insulting to the character. Caroline has had a lot of success in her career and didn't get that far by being so stupid about something so basic. She would know better than to blunder into that situation. As head teacher, Caroline would be responsible for making sure all her staff were clear about sexual harassment laws and how to steer clear of problematic situations. It was as unlikely as having a UFO land in the car park outside the school. Come on. Jeesh. She seemed so clueless and baffled by the whole situation, like she somehow lost all her marbles cuz she thought she might like to get to know this Ruth a little better.

And then, the drunkard genius Judith (wtf?) has a come-to-Jesus moment and realizes OMG she's actually a lesbian? Wtf? In love with Caroline?? For YEARS?? This show treats lesbianism as a kind of virus. Someone needs to warn Judith: if you're not careful it'll kill you. Or your wife. (I still haven't forgiven them for killing Kate.)

As far as Gillian, it's the same old same old: money troubles, causing tension with Celia and Alan, persistent angst about that fucking barn (GILLIAN: TEAR IT DOWN). Celia being a bitch again, to Ted, to Alan, to Gillian, really it's gotten old. Can't they come up with anything else for these women? The storyline with Ted and Harrison felt tacked on like they had extra minutes to fill, so coughed up something suitable. 

I absolutely loved the first two seasons of this show, but it has just taken a nosedive since then. This new season felt like they shoe-horned in a lot of fan service (call-back birthday card from Robbie, Raff and Ellie having child #2, cute kids being snarky, Gillian gawking at the hunky handyman, John being awkward and useless, etc.), rather than actual story-building.  

I binged the whole thing from the beginning in preparation for this new season, and as I watched I realized this show relies heavily on people getting drunk and spilling the beans. I was taken aback by the lighthearted treatment of Judith's drinking, like alcoholism is so funny, right. I like my flawed characters as much as the next guy, but wtf? Our final glimpse of Caroline and Gillian is them boozing it up at a gay bar. smdh

-- But there are, of course, gazillion things I love about this show and always will. Like the way they all fall asleep on the sofa after dinner with the TV on. 

 

[Valny]

On 11/22/2020 at 12:24 AM, lidarose9 said:

Finally watched this and was so disappointed. I found the whole business about Caroline and the teacher Ruth so unbelievable, on so many different levels, and so insulting to the character. Caroline has had a lot of success in her career and didn't get that far by being so stupid about something so basic. She would know better than to blunder into that situation. As head teacher, Caroline would be responsible for making sure all her staff were clear about sexual harassment laws and how to steer clear of problematic situations. It was as unlikely as having a UFO land in the car park outside the school. Come on. Jeesh. She seemed so clueless and baffled by the whole situation, like she somehow lost all her marbles cuz she thought she might like to get to know this Ruth a little better.

And then, the drunkard genius Judith (wtf?) has a come-to-Jesus moment and realizes OMG she's actually a lesbian? Wtf? In love with Caroline?? For YEARS?? This show treats lesbianism as a kind of virus. Someone needs to warn Judith: if you're not careful it'll kill you. Or your wife. (I still haven't forgiven them for killing Kate.)

As far as Gillian, it's the same old same old: money troubles, causing tension with Celia and Alan, persistent angst about that fucking barn (GILLIAN: TEAR IT DOWN). Celia being a bitch again, to Ted, to Alan, to Gillian, really it's gotten old. Can't they come up with anything else for these women? The storyline with Ted and Harrison felt tacked on like they had extra minutes to fill, so coughed up something suitable. 

I absolutely loved the first two seasons of this show, but it has just taken a nosedive since then. This new season felt like they shoe-horned in a lot of fan service (call-back birthday card from Robbie, Raff and Ellie having child #2, cute kids being snarky, Gillian gawking at the hunky handyman, John being awkward and useless, etc.), rather than actual story-building.  

I binged the whole thing from the beginning in preparation for this new season, and as I watched I realized this show relies heavily on people getting drunk and spilling the beans. I was taken aback by the lighthearted treatment of Judith's drinking, like alcoholism is so funny, right. I like my flawed characters as much as the next guy, but wtf? Our final glimpse of Caroline and Gillian is them boozing it up at a gay bar. smdh

-- But there are, of course, gazillion things I love about this show and always will. Like the way they all fall asleep on the sofa after dinner with the TV on. 

 

Agree with all this. I looked forward to this new season for a while and it really came up flat. So disappointing and surprised this is what Sally Wainwright came up with. I do look forward to Wainwright's second season of Gentleman Jack though.

[AZChristian]

Did anyone else catch the name of the police sergeant mentioned by Cheryl when she was talking to Gillian in episode 3 of the new season? Sergeant Cawood! Great little Easter egg there!

ETA:  Just finished the last episode.  I loved this whole season, but really loved the ending.

Edited January 13, 2021 by AZChristian
Added thought.

[Megan]

The only thing I hate more than a show discovering or showcasing that one of their stars can sing, is the addition of a troublesome, precocious, scamp, orphan. I do not know why shows love these story-lines. Maybe I am the only one who hates them.

I did love that everyone thinks Celia sucks. And of course she voted for Brexit.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Megan

[AZChristian]

2 minutes ago, Megan said:

The only thing I hate more than a show discovering or showcasing that one of their stars can sing, is the addition of a troublesome, precocious, scamp, orphan. I do not know why shows love these story-lines. Maybe I am the only one who hates them.

LOL.  I was hoping that a sequel would feature the orphan boy and Calamity Jane.  Loved them both.

[Hava]

Ugh, this show would have been nearly perfect without Celia. She's horrid. And Alan is spineless to not stand up to her. 

[kieyra]

I've always been a "Happy Valley yes, LTIH no" viewer, I think because I wanted the latter to be Caroline-centric and I hated that John continued to be in the show, much less Judith. (Celia has sort of slotted into an 'antagonist' role for me so I don't mind her so much.)

I know I've posted before how exhausting I find the Gillian/Eddie/barn stuff, too. 

But ... I rewatched the whole thing on Netflix recently, in order, including the holiday specials, and somehow it's all hanging together a bit better for me now. Maybe it's all the xanax I had to take to get through 2020. I still hate that John is in the show, but I somehow found Judith's ridiculous rise to YA-novel fame to be a sort of of course that's what happens moment. I also found her sudden obsession with Caroline to be completely in (flaky) character for Judith and didn't take it as a serious "now I'm gay" reveal. 

Since the show is supposed to be semi-autobiographical for Sally Wainwright, I really wonder how many of these characters are pulled from her own life. We've seen 'woman running a sheep farm by herself' before in HV, so that's got to be a write-what-you-know thing. And I wonder if her own mother is that insufferable. Heh. 

[Hava]

9 hours ago, kieyra said:

Celia has sort of slotted into an 'antagonist' role for me so I don't mind her so much.

I probably could accept her as an antagonist if the show treated her as such, but I don't think it did. Each time she did an awful thing, Alan either supported her or she came around to the right decision and the audience and the characters were supposed to just move on. 

I actually hate the premise of the show that these two people were in love with each other their whole live's and were pining for each other while married to other people. If I were Gillian, I could not move past that. I was hoping the show would end with Alan leaving Celia. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Hava

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Hava said:

I probably could accept her as an antagonist if the show treated her as such, but I don't think it did. Each time she did an awful thing, Alan either supported or her she came around to the right decision and the audience and the characters were supposed to just move on. 

I actually hate the premise of the show that these two people were in love with each other their whole live's and were pining for each other while married to other people. If I were Gillian, I could not move past that. I was hoping the show would end with Alan leaving Celia. 

I've seen a lot of relationships like that though. People on the outside just rolling their eyes wondering how the hell Bob stays with that bitch Helen or why does Sarah put up with that insufferable Harold? And  they manage to stay together. Who knows why?

[Quilt Fairy]

On 1/18/2021 at 3:11 PM, Hava said:

I actually hate the premise of the show that these two people were in love with each other their whole live's and were pining for each other while married to other people.

Except that's a true story.  It's based on Sally Wainwright's mother. 

I think the show is sweet, and gentle, and funny.  It has characters that are complex, and families with messy, tangled relationships. 

[Blakeston]

I finally got to catch up with this on Netflix.

I don't think Caroline was nearly as predatory with Ruth as Ruth suggested - but I do think that Caroline was genuinely romantically interested in her. I think Caroline was hoping that something would happen between them at some point. 

If Caroline just wanted friendship with Ruth and nothing else, I think she would have dismissed Ruth's concerns immediately and said, "Get over yourself." But she had a rather guilty reaction instead, as if she realized that there was some truth to what Ruth was getting at (even though Ruth went way too far).

Am I the only one who was hoping that Gillian would just sell the damn farm? It's worth 500,000 pounds, ffs, and the best she can hope to do with the sheep is break even. And she hates the barn. Just get rid of it and have a nice life!

[BetyBee]

On 1/19/2021 at 11:44 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Except that's a true story.  It's based on Sally Wainwright's mother. 

I think the show is sweet, and gentle, and funny.  It has characters that are complex, and families with messy, tangled relationships. 

This story is very similar to what happened to my MIL and her pre-WWII boyfriend. They found each other again after both of their spouses had passed. Alan reminds me so much of her gentle boyfriend whom we all came to love. My MIL was very Celia like and walked all over her re-found love as well.  However, she showed a loving side of herself I'd never seen before and she was very good to him. She had been miserable in her marriage just like Celia (minus the cheating) and he had been miserable in his as well. It happens. 

I love this show and all of its flawed characters so much. The dialogue is fascinating. I'll miss it and I doubt we'll get another season, but if we do, I'll be there.

[Paloma]

On 9/30/2020 at 3:47 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Caroline really needs to stop coming on to and/or getting involved with subordinates.   I get that the school is pretty much her whole world as far as meeting other adults, but as the head of the school it's just inappropriate.

This! Caroline is not dumb or unaware of the realities of the world, and she should have been more careful especially after she was encouraged to leave her last school apparently at least in part because of her relationship with Kate (again, someone who was a subordinate). In any case, even if their objection was general homophobia rather than a relationship with a subordinate, in the 21st century any boss and especially a school administrator should be careful about avoiding behaviors that could be interpreted as sexual harassment. 

Also, I've seen comments disapproving of Ruth's reaction and/or finding her shock unbelievable, but I don't agree. Probably some people in school did suspect or even talk about the possibility that Caroline was gay, but that doesn't mean that everyone heard these rumors. More important, Ruth accepted the invitation to come for dinner because she was excited about the opportunity to interview Judith and because she had a miserable situation with her husband at home and was glad to get away for an evening; she obviously had no inkling that the dinner was viewed by Caroline as an opportunity for romance or seduction. Ruth was wrong to plan to drink so much that she couldn't drive home (and I can see how Caroline could misinterpret that since she was already predisposed to see this as a romantic opportunity), but that's all the more reason for Caroline not to take advantage of Ruth's vulnerability. 

What really bothered me was Caroline's "shocked" denial to Ruth that she had an ulterior motive, when she had clearly communicated to Gillian earlier that she was thinking of this dinner as a romantic opportunity and had shown the audience by her nervous behavior before the dinner (not to mention her checking out Ruth's figure in school as Ruth walked away after the invitation) that this wasn't purely a working dinner. By vehemently denying that there was any ulterior motive, she made Ruth's feelings invalid, and that made Ruth angrier. 

[Paloma]

On 11/22/2020 at 12:24 AM, lidarose9 said:

As far as Gillian, it's the same old same old: money troubles, causing tension with Celia and Alan, persistent angst about that fucking barn (GILLIAN: TEAR IT DOWN). Celia being a bitch again, to Ted, to Alan, to Gillian, really it's gotten old. Can't they come up with anything else for these women? The storyline with Ted and Harrison felt tacked on like they had extra minutes to fill, so coughed up something suitable. 

I absolutely loved the first two seasons of this show, but it has just taken a nosedive since then. This new season felt like they shoe-horned in a lot of fan service (call-back birthday card from Robbie, Raff and Ellie having child #2, cute kids being snarky, Gillian gawking at the hunky handyman, John being awkward and useless, etc.), rather than actual story-building.  

Agree with all this, especially the addition of unimportant (to me) subplots. I'm not a fan of using cute/precocious children as plot points anyway, and I found Harrison more annoying than cute (not to mention that he crossed the line from stealing food for need to actual delinquency when he stole a car for fun). What was the point of having him come into Alan's life, and what was the point of having so much of the last episodes center around Harrison and taking Ted (who was also a peripheral, not-even-seen character for most of the show) for a joy ride and visit to the sea? 

If you view the show as just an extended "day in the life" of an ordinary couple and their families, the lack of progress in important storylines would not be so disappointing. There's a balance to be found between soap opera drama and boring domestic drama, and I thought they mostly found that balance in the first two seasons (though they did get overly soapy at times) and lost it in the last two seasons. If there is a season 5, I doubt I will watch.

[AnnaCody]

On 9/30/2020 at 7:17 AM, Gizkok said:

I find it very hard to believe that Ruth was unaware of Caroline's "preferences." She's been at that school for some time now and in every school I've ever been in talking and speculating about others in almost an indoor sport. Ruth must have heard things especially since Caroline never denied her past. So for Ruth to come across as shocked is extremely disingenuous.

That's what I thought too. Caroline got married and her partner was pregnant.  How could the staff not know it?  IIFC, there was no secrecy around any of it.

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, AnnaCody said:

That's what I thought too. Caroline got married and her partner was pregnant.  How could the staff not know it?  IIFC, there was no secrecy around any of it.

That was at Caroline's old school.  

[shipmate]

I just binged the whole series and am dying to know... what is the outcome of the visit to the Hebden Women’s Disco?? 😆

 If no more series are being produced I would love the author to tell us what happens to everyone in the future.  I would especially like Gillian to find some happiness and levity in her life since her story has just been one wave of darkness/hardship after another. (Seriously, girl, sell the farm! You're in your 50s and Raff isn't taking it over)

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, shipmate said:

I just binged the whole series and am dying to know... what is the outcome of the visit to the Hebden Women’s Disco?? 😆

 If no more series are being produced I would love the author to tell us what happens to everyone in the future.  I would especially like Gillian to find some happiness and levity in her life since her story has just been one wave of darkness/hardship after another. (Seriously, girl, sell the farm! You're in your 50s and Raff isn't taking it over)

Sally Wainwright seems amenable to more episodes if schedules can be worked out !!!

[kieyra]

As a "Cast in Other Roles" aside, I'm really enjoying The Split, where Nicola Walker gets to play a lawyer instead of a cop (or Gillian). Nicely layered family drama set against the backdrop of dueling divorce firms. At first I thought it was going to be a bit more lightweight than it's actually turned out to be. Good writing. Stephen Magnan (sp?), Anthony Stewart Head, other actors whose names I don't know off top of head. Two seasons available on Hulu US. 

I made a new thread for The Split over here.

[Niuxita]

On 11/22/2020 at 12:24 AM, lidarose9 said:

And then, the drunkard genius Judith (wtf?) has a come-to-Jesus moment and realizes OMG she's actually a lesbian? Wtf? In love with Caroline?? For YEARS??

 

On 1/18/2021 at 8:39 AM, kieyra said:

I also found her sudden obsession with Caroline to be completely in (flaky) character for Judith and didn't take it as a serious "now I'm gay" reveal. 

There's a scene in a season 1 episode where Judith shows up drunk at Caroline's after her being a lesbian has become known (I can't remember the context and I don't have access to the episode to check) where Judith basically congratulates her for it and says that she can relate because she used to have a huge crush on one of her dad's girlfriends and used to fantasize about kissing her. So, it's not exactly something that was retconned. *shrug*

[Quilt Fairy]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:38 PM, AZChristian said:

Sally Wainwright seems amenable to more episodes if schedules can be worked out !!!

And Derek Jacobi stays healthy.  The man is 82, after all.  It's a very interesting group of characters that SW has created and I love (or hate) them all, but if Alan or Celia wasn't there, would the story continue?

[possibilities]

I'm not wishing harm to anyone, but I could do without Celia's character being around.

[CharlizeCat]

Anne Reid is even older -- 86.  I just finished Season 4 and was underwhelmed. I don't have an opinion either way if the show comes back because I follow my favs -- Nicola and Sarah -- on other shows. I also see Tony Gardner and Dean Andrews pop up in other shows.

I don't mind that British shows seems to use the same small pool of talent for its shows. They are all good and I somehow feel comfort seeing a familiar face, such as on "The Split."

Here's a fun fact. Anne Reid and Sarah Lancashire played a mother and daughter in "Rose and Maloney" which is on Acorn. It's another crime solving show that pairs Sarah with Phil Davis (another actor  I really like along with Rupert Penry-Jones.)

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, CharlizeCat said:

"Rose and Maloney" which is on Acorn. It's another crime solving show that pairs Sarah with Phil Davis (another actor  I really like along with Rupert Penry-Jones.)

Oh I'm glad someone else saw that. I loved it.

I like Sarah in everything she does.  I first noticed Phil Davis when he was playing the odious Smallweed in "Bleak House,"  then saw him regularly as Jud in "Poldark," so I was surprised that he was going to play  a sort of romantic lead.  I thought he was adorable!  I developed a big crush on him.

[Jordan Baker]

I just finished Season 4. I was unprepared for how touched I was by the last episode--first, with Ted, and then with the last scene of Alan and Celia at the hotel. Yes, Celia can be horrible, but she came around in the end. And Alan . . . well, Derek Jacobi just melts my heart. 

I loved seeing Caroline and Gillian at the bar, and I laughed when Gillian kept pointing out the women she knew. 

My unpopular opinion about the show is that I love John. I mean, I know he's basically a jerk, but I just can't dislike him. Maybe it's the actor. 

I do agree with those who think the show was at its best in the first two seasons, and I haven't been thrilled with the most recent season, but I loved the final episode.

 

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, Jordan Baker said:

My unpopular opinion about the show is that I love John. I mean, I know he's basically a jerk, but I just can't dislike him. Maybe it's the actor. 

Oh yeah!  I've never had any trouble understanding why women keep falling for him, there's a charm about him that makes you want to keep on forgiving him, or at least keep on  laughing at him.  I could watch that scene when he's lazing in the lawn chair and Caroline sprays him with the hose, over and over.

The first season was the best but part of that was the surprise factor of all these original characters.  When has a central character been as 'easy' as Gillian and still we love and respect her?  

I even like Celia.  She's our lead and yet we sometimes absolutely hate her.   When she sat on that sofa, refusing to go to Caroline's wedding, I wanted to pick her up and shake her  till her teeth fell out.  Still, I came back to liking her and I think it's because the writer makes us see her through  Alan's eyes and he thinks, "The sun shines out of her face."

[nara]

On 3/20/2021 at 5:59 PM, shipmate said:

I just binged the whole series and am dying to know... what is the outcome of the visit to the Hebden Women’s Disco?? 😆

 If no more series are being produced I would love the author to tell us what happens to everyone in the future.  I would especially like Gillian to find some happiness and levity in her life since her story has just been one wave of darkness/hardship after another. (Seriously, girl, sell the farm! You're in your 50s and Raff isn't taking it over)

In my mind, at the end Robbie comes back and they finally have a happy and healthy relationship.

But the end seemed unfinished—I assume this was a Covid issue. They were working up to a murder reveal by Cheryl— which I assumed would be the cause of Robbie coming back. Additionally, what happened to the long lost son Gary. Was he even mentioned in the last few episodes? He was a huge part of season 3

However, overall great show.

Edited December 5, 2022 by nara

[MicheleinPhilly]

I've only just binged this over the last week or so and recognize that I'm likely just talking to myself, but I do that frequently IRL so why should the interwebs be any different. 🙂

I absolutely adored this. It felt as messy, and at times maddening, as actual real life family drama. I think I loved and loathed every character at one time or another and if that isn't true to life, I don't know what is. Except John - I never loved John. He needs to go far far away. 

For me the journey was less about Alan and Celia (the messy cow) and more about Caroline and Gillian. I loved the evolution of their relationship from outright animosity to begrudging acceptance to mild friendship to pretty much besties. 

I had sadly been spoiled about Kate's fate (Pro tip: Don't Google a show you discover and fall in love with until you've finished said show) and disagree with Wainwright's rationale for why she had to do it. There were plenty of other ways to draw Caroline and Celia back together. And given what a bitch Celia was when Kate was actually alive, their "reconciliation" didn't ring that true to me. Celia was still a cow and she'll never change. 

While I'd love to have more of this, I think it's highly unlikely and I'm not holding my breath. But if it does come back I'll be there with bells on. 🤗

Edited March 10, 2023 by MicheleinPhilly
Spelling

[JudyObscure]

25 minutes ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

absolutely adored this. It felt as messy, and at times maddening, as actual real life family drama.

Well said!  I loved it for the same reasons.  I hope the writer gives us something similar someday.