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3 hours ago, readster said:

Yeah times change, but yes, it does worry me some days. I have pre-teens at home and one of mine just rather swing in his backyard or retreat to streaming inside, but we make pushes for him to do more. It's a slow process, but works. But times are different, shows are viable on different medias now. You aren't limited to a time and day anymore like you once were. Though I have to admit, reading it pushed more than usual and I see even kids in my classrooms checking out more books in hard cover form or at least checking out graphic novels. 

Yeah there's good and bad. Its great that there's so many different ways to watch shows. You can stream and watch at work on breaks or waiting at the DRs office. But I do really miss the specials and stuff. It was fun and a reason for appointment TV. Turning on the TV on Saturdays and finding cartoons and specials. Now there's not really that anymore. Its great to see kids reading more and checking out books. As much as I love my kindle I still love paper backs and hard cover books more.

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Back to the show, the downslide of Marty Taylor started. If you remember, he lost his charter accountant job and began the: "Why do I have to work so hard crap" he carried the rest of the season. Something I didn't notice was when Tim and Marty were saying how they got kicked out of a lot of things. Marty says: "My own house." I went: "When did that happen?" Marty wasn't kicked out by Nancy for another three years. We had Jeff mentioned many times who Tim put in as: "He's in worst shape then you." Which, we later learned two years later he was. When they mentioned Rick in the episode and then four ore times in the show. Sounded like Rick had a gambling issue and was constantly looking for more. Outside Marty who couldn't keep a job or Jeff who kept trying to pull off some entrepreneurship company. 

Yes, he was a charter accountant and for some reason didn't trying to get another job in that field. I don't remember Marty getting kicked out of his house unless there's one we don't know about. If Nancy kicked him out before I can't imagine why she took him back and stayed. Marty doesn't really seem that different or all together when we see him. Then again its hard to see how Jeff got two women to marry him since he always seemed to only have crazy ideas that would never pan out rather then get an actual job. Maybe Marty tried more until after the twins were born? I do remember that scene with Tim asking who he'd borrow money from and Marty mentioning other brothers. All who were in worse shape then since apparently they were all borrowing money from each other and Tim was the only one with money. Its not surprising that Marty would come to Tim but you'd think he would be more grateful considering his other options are brothers who are worse off then him. A gambling problem would make since for Rick but its amazing out of 5 (or 7!) brother that Tim was the only one doing well. None of the rest had stable job or no money problems. I guess the packing store didn't work out which is surprising since those were popular then. Not one of the other brothers could get it together. Except Jeff at the end of season 8 when he decides to go in on the hardware. 

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3 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

So we just got UP TV back again today!

It's so funny.  I obviously don't know who you are or where you are, but I saw this and I said, maybe I do, too.  I'll check it out.  Sadly, nope.

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Just now, Katy M said:

It's so funny.  I obviously don't know who you are or where you are, but I saw this and I said, maybe I do, too.  I'll check it out.  Sadly, nope.

It could depend on your market where you are and who you have for a TV provider.

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44 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That's great!

Thank you! What's odd though is that UP TV doesn't show up when I search the XFINITY Stream app.

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4 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Sometimes I feel like people are bitter over how things went on later on. While others like JTT and Allen were: "You know what, mistakes were made, time has passed, time to move on."

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3 hours ago, readster said:

Sometimes I feel like people are bitter over how things went on later on. While others like JTT and Allen were: "You know what, mistakes were made, time has passed, time to move on."

I think your right. That's disappointing.

7 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Thanks!

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On 7/26/2019 at 12:45 PM, andromeda331 said:

but its amazing out of 5 (or 7!) brother that Tim was the only one doing well. None of the rest had stable job or no money problems. I guess the packing store didn't work out which is surprising since those were popular then. Not one of the other brothers could get it together. Except Jeff at the end of season 8 when he decides to go in on the hardware. 

You know it was like with Jill's sisters, they were great career wise, but marriage and family wise they were pretty big screw ups. Even when they wrote out Jill's sister having the girl, Sloan. It goes to the point where how could Fred and Lillian not be: "God, why can't my other daughters just get their personal lives together. The only grandchildren we have are with Jill... and Tim!" Or how about the fact, that much like everyone else, they didn't really care about Jill going back to school either. I find that just... odd. Lucille was supportive and offered to help with the boys more when she moved back in the area. However, Fred and Lillian could care less, would just drop in when they wanted to. My own father-in-law has not been supportive of me doing graduate school. Feeling I should just got a really good job and support the family and just listen to him all the time. Yet, never grabbed the concept to get a really really good job I had to finish up a degree. Plus, he was one to talk, he worked three jobs with three kids, was fired when his youngest had a medical problem and had to file a lawsuit to get a job with the government, which was the really really good job he later retired from.

   I know they were trying to paint Jill's parents as stuck in their ways and Fred saying the weather was great when a tornado would be a few blocks from his house. But it got to the point you wanted to wonder how Jill and her sisters made it to adulthood. Same with Tim's brothers. They all came off like they were raised by wolves. 

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6 hours ago, readster said:

You know it was like with Jill's sisters, they were great career wise, but marriage and family wise they were pretty big screw ups. Even when they wrote out Jill's sister having the girl, Sloan. It goes to the point where how could Fred and Lillian not be: "God, why can't my other daughters just get their personal lives together. The only grandchildren we have are with Jill... and Tim!" Or how about the fact, that much like everyone else, they didn't really care about Jill going back to school either. I find that just... odd. Lucille was supportive and offered to help with the boys more when she moved back in the area. However, Fred and Lillian could care less, would just drop in when they wanted to. My own father-in-law has not been supportive of me doing graduate school. Feeling I should just got a really good job and support the family and just listen to him all the time. Yet, never grabbed the concept to get a really really good job I had to finish up a degree. Plus, he was one to talk, he worked three jobs with three kids, was fired when his youngest had a medical problem and had to file a lawsuit to get a job with the government, which was the really really good job he later retired from.

   I know they were trying to paint Jill's parents as stuck in their ways and Fred saying the weather was great when a tornado would be a few blocks from his house. But it got to the point you wanted to wonder how Jill and her sisters made it to adulthood. Same with Tim's brothers. They all came off like they were raised by wolves. 

They really do. Especially Tim's brothers you'd think they weren't raised by parents who really seemed like good parents and a mother who picked up the pieces and raised her sons. Lucille really seems like a great mom but her sons were all screw ups Tim's the only one who ended up doing anything with their life. She doesn't really comment or say anything to try and get them to straighten out their lives. The only time she speaks up its the wrong thing to say which is when she gets on Marty for splitting the twins between him and their mom on Christmas. Not about his 'tude, losing jobs because he can't just shut up and do it, or anything she really should. Nope, its the one thing she shouldn't. It doesn't really seem to match up. Same with Jill's. Fred hated everything that wasn't his own opinion but the way he kept hating Tim. The only son-in-law who had a job, kept it and was supporting his entire family including Jill to the point she didn't have to work most of their marriage. And not say which ever one slept with his wife's sister at some point. Why was he so on Tim and not so on his other daughters. Nope Fred just hated everything just cause. Its weird how they aren't that supportive of Jill going back to school. Why not? Her career was in runt she just got laid off. Her other daughters had careers Carrie was traveling all the time they were all a mess and even more so then Jill.

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5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 Fred hated everything that wasn't his own opinion but the way he kept hating Tim. The only son-in-law who had a job, kept it and was supporting his entire family including Jill to the point she didn't have to work most of their marriage. And not say which ever one slept with his wife's sister at some point. Why was he so on Tim and not so on his other daughters. Nope Fred just hated everything just cause. Its weird how they aren't that supportive of Jill going back to school. Why not? Her career was in runt she just got laid off. Her other daughters had careers Carrie was traveling all the time they were all a mess and even more so then Jill.

Exactly! Yet, Fred can't just help hating Tim for some reason or another with a "hey you". Even when Lillian revealed to Jill that she had stopped doing dancing and other things because Fred hated them to the point she just gave up. Yet, she didn't dare tell him he hated his war models and got tired of hearing about his "good old days". Yet, the thought was: "Just do whatever to make your father happy." Then you turn around 50 years later and look at the mess that made. Or the fact that as soon as Lillian decided to try and date again, she immediately was back enjoying it again. The way it was written and when Lillian explains that Fred was who hated doing things to the point Jill and her sisters thought it was Lillian who didn't enjoy it. Just rings that it came up several times, but Fred wouldn't budge at 20, 30, 40, 50 to his 70s. Screw what his wife enjoyed!

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3 hours ago, readster said:

Exactly! Yet, Fred can't just help hating Tim for some reason or another with a "hey you". Even when Lillian revealed to Jill that she had stopped doing dancing and other things because Fred hated them to the point she just gave up. Yet, she didn't dare tell him he hated his war models and got tired of hearing about his "good old days". Yet, the thought was: "Just do whatever to make your father happy." Then you turn around 50 years later and look at the mess that made. Or the fact that as soon as Lillian decided to try and date again, she immediately was back enjoying it again. The way it was written and when Lillian explains that Fred was who hated doing things to the point Jill and her sisters thought it was Lillian who didn't enjoy it. Just rings that it came up several times, but Fred wouldn't budge at 20, 30, 40, 50 to his 70s. Screw what his wife enjoyed!

Nope no matter what age he wouldn't budge. God forbid he do anything to make his wife happy. That's really crappy and terrible way to live. Lillian had to give up so many activities just to make him happy. Yet she's happy to be back doing them after he died. Its really messed up. Its not really hard to realize how sick Lillian was of all his old war stories. Lillian doesn't really seem to realize how crappy it was that she had to give up so much. Also, Fred finally starts realizing how much was kept from him when Jill tells him in the episode with his book so you'd think he would start changing, letting up maybe take his wife dancing or something but in the episode he dies in he clearly hasn't changed Jill can't tell him that she didn't want him to come that week. Not that she didn't want him to come ever and probably would have agreed to Jill lies and when talking to her mother later Lillian says her husband would have been angry if she told the truth. So in the year or so since learning everyone had been lying to him and forever he didn't change at all. Tim can be a pain but you'd think Fred would realize at any point that Tim loved his daughter, treated her well, and their kids and did a good job supporting them. 

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7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Nope no matter what age he wouldn't budge. God forbid he do anything to make his wife happy. That's really crappy and terrible way to live. Lillian had to give up so many activities just to make him happy. Yet she's happy to be back doing them after he died. Its really messed up. Its not really hard to realize how sick Lillian was of all his old war stories. Lillian doesn't really seem to realize how crappy it was that she had to give up so much. Also, Fred finally starts realizing how much was kept from him when Jill tells him in the episode with his book so you'd think he would start changing, letting up maybe take his wife dancing or something but in the episode he dies in he clearly hasn't changed Jill can't tell him that she didn't want him to come that week. Not that she didn't want him to come ever and probably would have agreed to Jill lies and when talking to her mother later Lillian says her husband would have been angry if she told the truth. So in the year or so since learning everyone had been lying to him and forever he didn't change at all. Tim can be a pain but you'd think Fred would realize at any point that Tim loved his daughter, treated her well, and their kids and did a good job supporting them. 

How true, you think at that point, Fred would at least come to that truth. My own father-in-law has admitted that and trust me, he is very hard to make happy. Something I also noticed,  how everyone was "tired" of hearing Fred's war stories. It's another example how much Jill took after him. Jill had to constantly talk about moving away growing up where EVERYONE to her own mother-in-law and brother-in-laws couldn't take the stories anymore. You think that clue either of them in that maybe they should shut up and listen to others.

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On 7/31/2019 at 2:22 PM, andromeda331 said:

They really do. Especially Tim's brothers you'd think they weren't raised by parents who really seemed like good parents and a mother who picked up the pieces and raised her sons. Lucille really seems like a great mom but her sons were all screw ups Tim's the only one who ended up doing anything with their life. a

Watching the episode where Harry's son was installing their extra phone line and seeing the steam roller episode. Wow! Tim and Jill are pretty good parents compared to everyone else, and if Harry and Deloris did have "4 kids" which was constantly said but we only saw the youngest. You have to wonder how Harry and Deloris had any relationship with anyone? They seem to be supportive when they HAD to be. However, Deloris seem to constantly attack Harry for whatever reason and if one small thing went wrong, Harry was: "What the hell?" Of course Dennis leaving Tim alone with open wires for 3 hours when he seemed to be just 10 minutes away from finishing was stupid.

  My wife saw the steam roller episode for the first time, she thought it was COMPLETELY stupid with how the father reacted. Even the kids: "You stupid head!" Mrs. Readster was: "I be telling him,  you moved your car by the roller, your dad just let you, you are both stupid heads!" Plus, she also asked why were Al and Heidi just standing there and let Tim get beat up. Plus, when Jill was closing her eyes and saying: "Please tell me your father didn't just run that kid over." Um... that kid was NO WHERE near the roller, so how could she even think that?

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On 8/3/2019 at 8:39 AM, readster said:

Watching the episode where Harry's son was installing their extra phone line and seeing the steam roller episode. Wow! Tim and Jill are pretty good parents compared to everyone else, and if Harry and Deloris did have "4 kids" which was constantly said but we only saw the youngest. You have to wonder how Harry and Deloris had any relationship with anyone? They seem to be supportive when they HAD to be. However, Deloris seem to constantly attack Harry for whatever reason and if one small thing went wrong, Harry was: "What the hell?" Of course Dennis leaving Tim alone with open wires for 3 hours when he seemed to be just 10 minutes away from finishing was stupid.

They really do don't they? Its hard to imagine Harry and Delores having 4 kids they so seem more like a couple that had sex once on the first date, got pregnant and married to for the kid. I suppose they could have three more but its hard to imagine. Although I can't imagine either staying together for very long even for the kid. Delores is constantly on Harry no matter what and he really doesn't seem to like her at all or the type to put up with that. Its kind of surprising that Delores was so nicer to their son and Harry was the one constantly on him. You'd really think it would be the other way around Delores on him constantly and Harry not. Harry did over react but he was right about taking off during a job especially since it didn't seem like that it would take that much longer to fix. I can't imagine Delores having that many friends although I doubt she would care she was almost as scary when she was being so nice to Tim for coming over to talk to Harry because he was worried Harry and his son.

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My wife saw the steam roller episode for the first time, she thought it was COMPLETELY stupid with how the father reacted. Even the kids: "You stupid head!" Mrs. Readster was: "I be telling him,  you moved your car by the roller, your dad just let you, you are both stupid heads!" Plus, she also asked why were Al and Heidi just standing there and let Tim get beat up. Plus, when Jill was closing her eyes and saying: "Please tell me your father didn't just run that kid over." Um... that kid was NO WHERE near the roller, so how could she even think that?

It was so stupid! It was completely the kid's fault for moving his toy behind the roller and his dad blames Tim instead. Its crazy that Al and Heidi would just stand there while Tim gets beaten up. They don't help him, they don't try and stop it and no one can point out it was the kid's fault? No one calls the cops? How is Tim's fault? And I don't know why Jill even things Tim would run over a kid?  

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17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It was so stupid! It was completely the kid's fault for moving his toy behind the roller and his dad blames Tim instead. Its crazy that Al and Heidi would just stand there while Tim gets beaten up. They don't help him, they don't try and stop it and no one can point out it was the kid's fault? No one calls the cops? How is Tim's fault? And I don't know why Jill even things Tim would run over a kid?  

It is also like watching Tim turn down NASA to help Mark get over himself. I remember when Tim even asks: "I'm going to pay for this aren't I?" When he first finds out he is going into space. Jill saying: "Yes, you are." Why would he pay? He is getting a once in a life time opportunity to go into space, an every man, represent his company, his country and Jill is basically saying that it's going to be bad when he gets home. How is that supportive? Same when Season 8 starts and Mark is completely out of his Goth Stage, Ronnie is long forgotten and the focus is Randy leaving the show. I would have liked one point for Mark to have said: "Dad, you gave up a lot for me. Thanks for caring." Oh no, he is just "fine" when the season starts because the writers wanted an excuse for Tim not to go into space and they got bored with Goth Mark. 

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5 hours ago, readster said:

It is also like watching Tim turn down NASA to help Mark get over himself. I remember when Tim even asks: "I'm going to pay for this aren't I?" When he first finds out he is going into space. Jill saying: "Yes, you are." Why would he pay? He is getting a once in a life time opportunity to go into space, an every man, represent his company, his country and Jill is basically saying that it's going to be bad when he gets home. How is that supportive? Same when Season 8 starts and Mark is completely out of his Goth Stage, Ronnie is long forgotten and the focus is Randy leaving the show. I would have liked one point for Mark to have said: "Dad, you gave up a lot for me. Thanks for caring." Oh no, he is just "fine" when the season starts because the writers wanted an excuse for Tim not to go into space and they got bored with Goth Mark. 

That was so crazy. It was as you pointed out a once in a lifetime opportunity you don't pass those up! Especially just because your kid's being an emo and you really want to go. Its ridiculous. I can't believe no one was supportive of Tim going to NASA. They should have been supportive and even if Tim did turn it down. They should have said something. Instead he turns it down because of Mark and Mark doesn't say anything when he should either be thanking his dad for giving up such a huge opportunity or trying to convince him to go because his dad really wanted to go. The show was always really weird with big opportunities its almost like they don't even realize it. Tim gets offered to go into space. Nope, no support and he doesn't go because Mark's being stupid. Or when Brad gets a chance to play soccer in England which is another huge opportunity but no one except Tim sees it that. Jill really sees it as no big deal and how dare Brad even think about skipping college to play pro-soccer and in the end he gets talked completely out of it. Cause he can't skip college. Except why? There's no reason he can't go to college afterwards. Soccer is huge in England in a way it isn't here. But no one points that out. Jill seems to think Brad could play soccer after college which is rare unless he makes the national team or goes to another country to play. Both of those are long shots because every good soccer player in the country would be trying for. And in the end Brad should be furious with his parents and really not let that one go especially since Randy was allowed to go and Jill was ticked at Tim for talking him out of going but the same thing happens to Brad.  But he's not. Just like Tim just lets go not going into space. 

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On 8/15/2019 at 2:31 AM, andromeda331 said:

That was so crazy. It was as you pointed out a once in a lifetime opportunity you don't pass those up! Especially just because your kid's being an emo and you really want to go. Its ridiculous. I can't believe no one was supportive of Tim going to NASA. They should have been supportive and even if Tim did turn it down. They should have said something. Instead he turns it down because of Mark and Mark doesn't say anything when he should either be thanking his dad for giving up such a huge opportunity or trying to convince him to go because his dad really wanted to go. The show was always really weird with big opportunities its almost like they don't even realize it. Tim gets offered to go into space. Nope, no support and he doesn't go because Mark's being stupid. Or when Brad gets a chance to play soccer in England which is another huge opportunity but no one except Tim sees it that. Jill really sees it as no big deal and how dare Brad even think about skipping college to play pro-soccer and in the end he gets talked completely out of it. Cause he can't skip college. Except why? There's no reason he can't go to college afterwards. Soccer is huge in England in a way it isn't here. But no one points that out. Jill seems to think Brad could play soccer after college which is rare unless he makes the national team or goes to another country to play. Both of those are long shots because every good soccer player in the country would be trying for. And in the end Brad should be furious with his parents and really not let that one go especially since Randy was allowed to go and Jill was ticked at Tim for talking him out of going but the same thing happens to Brad.  But he's not. Just like Tim just lets go not going into space. 

See and it was suppose to be along the lines of: "See, they are sacrificing a lot for family, because family matters!" However it didn't come off like that. Tim not getting the support the first time for NASA first just makes you go "why wouldn't you?" Giving everything up for Mark and him not even having a moment about his dad gave up for him just because his ideas for things was when life sucked, shave your head, wear goth and listen to goth music and life will be great. Hell, most of the time we saw Mark, even with Ronnie, he looked pretty miserable. Yes, Wilson pointed out like the writers wanted to convey that Mark was just confused about who he was at 13, which lets face it? Who isn't? However, they way they played things up with Jill and then Mark going to "preppy" and then back to: "Oh woe is me..." looked like a teen going through depression, but... they never went there. Then when season 8 starts, guess what? Mark is wearing pretty much normal clothes and the writers were: "Well, we got stuck, so we just pretended like Mark was healed over the summer." Same goes with Brad and professional soccer.

  College was ALWAYS going to be there. I mean Jill went back to school in her mid-late 30s. Yet, she was acting if Brad didn't go at 18, his life would be over. Of course the theme in the late 90s was: "all kids should go to college." Now, it is: "Not everyone will go to college, but everyone deserves an education." But Randy, hey no problem!

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Saw where Randy's gets his license and Jill jumps on him not wanting to drive at night due to Brad. Shocking how not only Randy points out what happened with Brad was all a set up, but Tim and even Mark bring up that Jill is acting ridiculous. I do think that Randy then just taking the car out was a very 16 year old thing to do. However, instead of both of them truly realizing they were both overreacting. It was more of: "This is how Jill finally realizes she make a dumb decision." Its even more how the writers acknowledge that Brad was set up by a swindler, but then just act like: "Well, we talked about it, time to move on." Nothing was every revealed that the guy was lying and that the Taylors settled everything that it was a scam. 

   However, this would have been a great way to tell the boys how people can be greedy and it's not them they are worried about, its other people out there. Instead, it's meant to be "a very special lesson for Jill" who then goes back into: "But I'm right all the time." 

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On 8/16/2019 at 3:35 PM, readster said:

See and it was suppose to be along the lines of: "See, they are sacrificing a lot for family, because family matters!" However it didn't come off like that. Tim not getting the support the first time for NASA first just makes you go "why wouldn't you?" Giving everything up for Mark and him not even having a moment about his dad gave up for him just because his ideas for things was when life sucked, shave your head, wear goth and listen to goth music and life will be great. Hell, most of the time we saw Mark, even with Ronnie, he looked pretty miserable. Yes, Wilson pointed out like the writers wanted to convey that Mark was just confused about who he was at 13, which lets face it? Who isn't? However, they way they played things up with Jill and then Mark going to "preppy" and then back to: "Oh woe is me..." looked like a teen going through depression, but... they never went there. Then when season 8 starts, guess what? Mark is wearing pretty much normal clothes and the writers were: "Well, we got stuck, so we just pretended like Mark was healed over the summer." Same goes with Brad and professional soccer.

That's exactly what they wanted. They wanted to show Tim making a big sacrifice but that's not how it came off. Mark's issues really weren't serious enough for him to cancel such a chance.  What also hurts is why don't even really know why Mark's gone Goth. He just says he likes it. But then he goes back to it after when he gets dumped. So he's just into Goth because he doesn't have a girlfriend? Or just cause? They never give us a reason (although Fred dying would have been perfect). But when they want Tim to give up NASA then suddenly it becomes a reason. Why? Because he was dumped? It wasn't as if Mark was suicidal or something. Also if it was a big problem then why didn't Jill of all people decide to send him to therapist to find out what his problem is? Or you know keep asking. They never really do. You'd think they'd use his Goth to combine with Jill wanting to be a therapist and stuff. They could have Jill decide to send him to one or actually show her being a decent therapist in helping Mark with whatever his problem is.
 

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College was ALWAYS going to be there. I mean Jill went back to school in her mid-late 30s. Yet, she was acting if Brad didn't go at 18, his life would be over. Of course the theme in the late 90s was: "all kids should go to college." Now, it is: "Not everyone will go to college, but everyone deserves an education." But Randy, hey no problem!

Yeah, that was the 90s it was always 'all kids should go to college no matter what' even when it makes zero sense like this one. Brad could always go to college after he plays plus he's probably have the money to afford any college he wanted. Even if he ends up blowing out his knee or something he still would have at least tried at his dream.  And yes as you pointed out Jill went back to college and it worked out fine. She gets all mad at Tim when he admits he would have gone with Binford if he'd been offered that instead of college. Of course he would! That's his dream and as Tim pointed out many times he really didn't like college the classes and stuff. He definitely would have skipped college if he could. Randy got to follow his dream, why couldn't Brad?  

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18 hours ago, readster said:

Saw where Randy's gets his license and Jill jumps on him not wanting to drive at night due to Brad. Shocking how not only Randy points out what happened with Brad was all a set up, but Tim and even Mark bring up that Jill is acting ridiculous. I do think that Randy then just taking the car out was a very 16 year old thing to do. However, instead of both of them truly realizing they were both overreacting. It was more of: "This is how Jill finally realizes she make a dumb decision." Its even more how the writers acknowledge that Brad was set up by a swindler, but then just act like: "Well, we talked about it, time to move on." Nothing was every revealed that the guy was lying and that the Taylors settled everything that it was a scam. 

   However, this would have been a great way to tell the boys how people can be greedy and it's not them they are worried about, its other people out there. Instead, it's meant to be "a very special lesson for Jill" who then goes back into: "But I'm right all the time." 

She really does. I get her being cautious after what happened with Brad but she is so unreasonable. One month? That was crazy. Tim's suggestion of one week made a lot of sense. Get one week of driving under his belt before driving at night. I do like that everyone keeps pointing out how unfair she's being. I hate her reaction to everyone who points it out to her. And she won't admit until the end. Nope she's right all the time and everyone else is wrong. She realizes she was at the end but its not really a "Yea! Mom admitted she was wrong" Because she then punishes Randy for stealing the car which was unfair. Yes, he stole it but he was right when he said he might as well get punished for actually doing something wrong. It really was crap and he shouldn't have gotten in trouble for stealing the car. The only thing was Jill's fault. 

I do like that they did say the guy Brad hit was scam. It sounded like it in that episode but they never really said it. I wish they had and focused on that more. I agree it would be a great learning experience. People do set up accidents and someone as young as Brad probably wouldn't realize it. Like when he paid the guy and agreed no cops, those were bad signs not a sign that he would be just happy with that payment. 

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2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

She really does. I get her being cautious after what happened with Brad but she is so unreasonable. One month?

In my state, by law, a teen that gets their license is not allowed to have passengers (unless they are licensed adults over the age of 25) or drive after dark for the first 3 months.  So, I guess one month of not driving after dark wasn't that unreasonable

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3 hours ago, Katy M said:

In my state, by law, a teen that gets their license is not allowed to have passengers (unless they are licensed adults over the age of 25) or drive after dark for the first 3 months.  So, I guess one month of not driving after dark wasn't that unreasonable

How true, but also sign of the times. Now, new drivers know there are stipulations to things. We sadly had a student die a few years ago in a car accident from speeding. They changed the speed zone areas that had been a certain way for almost 20 years. Sadly it takes bad things happening to raise awareness for various problems. 

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On 8/25/2019 at 5:28 AM, Katy M said:

In my state, by law, a teen that gets their license is not allowed to have passengers (unless they are licensed adults over the age of 25) or drive after dark for the first 3 months.  So, I guess one month of not driving after dark wasn't that unreasonable

On 8/25/2019 at 9:13 AM, readster said:

How true, but also sign of the times. Now, new drivers know there are stipulations to things. We sadly had a student die a few years ago in a car accident from speeding. They changed the speed zone areas that had been a certain way for almost 20 years. Sadly it takes bad things happening to raise awareness for various problems. 

I haven't heard of that and went to look it up. I hadn't realized that had changed from when I got my license. It does look like it varies state to state. Its not a bad idea for new young drivers give them time to get some driving under their belt. Unfortunately, there's still way too many accidents caused by new, inexperience drivers. In HI case I do think Jill was being unreasonable for the month long. She punishing for Brad's mistake. Maybe just see how Randy does driving for one week. Is he doing well or does he need to go a little longer? Maybe he'll prove himself to being responsible and if not then extend it longer plus it would be based on Randy's driving not Brad's.

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1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I haven't heard of that and went to look it up. I hadn't realized that had changed from when I got my license. It does look like it varies state to state. Its not a bad idea for new young drivers give them time to get some driving under their belt. Unfortunately, there's still way too many accidents caused by new, inexperience drivers. In HI case I do think Jill was being unreasonable for the month long. She punishing for Brad's mistake. Maybe just see how Randy does driving for one week. Is he doing well or does he need to go a little longer? Maybe he'll prove himself to being responsible and if not then extend it longer plus it would be based on Randy's driving not Brad's.

Right that was Jill having Randy pay for Brad's mistakes and even Randy bringing up how the guy was trying to scam Brad too. Same goes into Jill's intern time that season. Was she doing that or was she just worrying about class? Was she using it for her dissertation research or was it just for experience. They could never say what Jill was doing by season 7. Being a active femist, a nag or worried about school and trying to graduate. 

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On 8/27/2019 at 7:24 AM, readster said:

Right that was Jill having Randy pay for Brad's mistakes and even Randy bringing up how the guy was trying to scam Brad too. Same goes into Jill's intern time that season. Was she doing that or was she just worrying about class? Was she using it for her dissertation research or was it just for experience. They could never say what Jill was doing by season 7. Being a active femist, a nag or worried about school and trying to graduate. 

It was really hard to tell they seemed to flip flop on what Jill was doing in season 7. She's stressed in Room at the Top and says she's leading her therapy group which we never see. At one point she does counseling families but has to turn one over because she knows Ronnie and the first couple she freaked out with her weird therapy ideas and then the woman who Heidi's husband cheats on in season eight. She talks about her dissertation but then she's talking about her thesis. They really seem to switch around what she's doing but it never really makes any sense or have her constantly talk about how worried she is.  Also ironically when she's thinking about going back to school she says she wouldn't need to take that many undergraduate classes needed to get into grad school. But then she's in school for five years.

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4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It was really hard to tell they seemed to flip flop on what Jill was doing in season 7. She's stressed in Room at the Top and says she's leading her therapy group which we never see. At one point she does counseling families but has to turn one over because she knows Ronnie and the first couple she freaked out with her weird therapy ideas and then the woman who Heidi's husband cheats on in season eight. She talks about her dissertation but then she's talking about her thesis. They really seem to switch around what she's doing but it never really makes any sense or have her constantly talk about how worried she is.  Also ironically when she's thinking about going back to school she says she wouldn't need to take that many undergraduate classes needed to get into grad school. But then she's in school for five years.

Right, even during the original showing, my mother pointed that out with: "But you had your degree first and said you didn't need under grad courses, why is she still in school?" Can you be a grad student that takes 5-7 years to finish a doctorate or advance masters... HOWEVER... not when you are back FULL TIME. If it was just as Bud pointed out in the bowling episode, he want to night school because he was working FULL TIME. Yet, Jill was off to classes right after the boys were on the school bus or dropped the boys off at school. It was depicted several times, the boys would get home first before she even did. With Tim arriving just afterwards. That means that Jill was in at least 3 classes a day at the least 2. College schedules for the past 30 years that most undergraduate courses met every 2 days, say it met at 8 AM on Monday and Wednesday. Or 9:30 on Tuesday and Thursdays only. Unless it was an interactive class that required a lab or something. Then that might meet regularly and would wrap up a few weeks before the semester did. Most college classes are are an hour and a half or to two hours. Graduate courses unless specials were scheduled later in the day to make more room for professors to teach undergraduate early in the day, allowing to write on their papers, grade and plan. This way they don't get swamped with too much as chairs and departments want them to have time to write. While a lot of colleges hate it when their associates or professors are being more "personal" with their students instead of WRITING!

  They way they had Jill from season 6 to the end of the series, they had it where she seemed to just flake on things outside of class. She was part of a book club, yet worried the boys didn't like her at school all the time. She "said" she was in groups for school, but then we never saw them and then yelled at Tim when he wanted to do something for work or for fun. She complained about spending money, yet Tim paid for EVERYTHING and they did trips and so forth. Soon as Jill didn't like something, everyone had to suffer for it, yet she doesn't learn anything. Even with Ronnie, why didn't she just talk to his parents to begin with or call the school. Hell, why didn't the school call Tim and Jill on Mark's behavior or about when Randy punched out his classmate who wrote the article on him being a coward. Even more, WHY WERE THE TEACHERS acting like their students could write or do anything they wanted. They are called advisers and stuff for a reason! Why I hate it when TV shows or movies depict educators as stuck up, oblivious to the world, never break the rules or you know... doing their jobs! The only shows that ever depicted school as semi realistic has been The Goldbergs and Schooled. Even Boston Public treated things as a joke or frace at time where you wanted to go: "These people would all be fired!"

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On 8/31/2019 at 9:03 AM, readster said:

Right, even during the original showing, my mother pointed that out with: "But you had your degree first and said you didn't need under grad courses, why is she still in school?" Can you be a grad student that takes 5-7 years to finish a doctorate or advance masters... HOWEVER... not when you are back FULL TIME. If it was just as Bud pointed out in the bowling episode, he want to night school because he was working FULL TIME. Yet, Jill was off to classes right after the boys were on the school bus or dropped the boys off at school. It was depicted several times, the boys would get home first before she even did. With Tim arriving just afterwards. That means that Jill was in at least 3 classes a day at the least 2. College schedules for the past 30 years that most undergraduate courses met every 2 days, say it met at 8 AM on Monday and Wednesday. Or 9:30 on Tuesday and Thursdays only. Unless it was an interactive class that required a lab or something. Then that might meet regularly and would wrap up a few weeks before the semester did. Most college classes are are an hour and a half or to two hours. Graduate courses unless specials were scheduled later in the day to make more room for professors to teach undergraduate early in the day, allowing to write on their papers, grade and plan. This way they don't get swamped with too much as chairs and departments want them to have time to write. While a lot of colleges hate it when their associates or professors are being more "personal" with their students instead of WRITING!

Her schedule really didn't make any sense. Yeah, she always seemed to be in school when they boys were but not always. She was home during the day often too. She didn't seem to have any night classes and didn't take any summer classes.  

Quote

They way they had Jill from season 6 to the end of the series, they had it where she seemed to just flake on things outside of class. She was part of a book club, yet worried the boys didn't like her at school all the time. She "said" she was in groups for school, but then we never saw them and then yelled at Tim when he wanted to do something for work or for fun. She complained about spending money, yet Tim paid for EVERYTHING and they did trips and so forth. Soon as Jill didn't like something, everyone had to suffer for it, yet she doesn't learn anything. 

Pretty much. If she didn't like it, it wasn't going to happen. But at the same time she really didn't seem to do much. She always complained that she was busy. But with what? She had classes but never seemed to have a full schedule and she didn't really seem to do anything else. She joined a book club and took piano lessons but then didn't really take the time to practice. If she was as busy then why join a book club and take up lessons? But when you pointed something out to her like while she's complaining in Room at the Top of how busy she is to Tim mentions their having people over for dinner. Tim asks why are they having people over if she's so busy and stressed. Good question. But Jill yells at him that she hasn't seen her friends in six months. But why does she have to see them tonight? Why not pick a better time? Like any time during the summer when she's not going to class? She complained about spending money; but they clearly weren't hurting seeing how they life, went on trips, and blew money without any sign of problems all on Tim's paycheck. Its really hard to be sympathetic to Tim blowing money when not only is he paying for everything including all of her classes. She hasn't had to work for the most part. She doesn't seem to have work while the kids were young and then is able to quit her job in season four and go to grad school for the next five years.  She really doesn't have many real problems and yet she complains and goes on like she does. They really should have found a job for her to do. That would have given her something else to do or at least explained why she was so stressed and was taking longer to get her degree.

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Even with Ronnie, why didn't she just talk to his parents to begin with or call the school. Hell, why didn't the school call Tim and Jill on Mark's behavior or about when Randy punched out his classmate who wrote the article on him being a coward. Even more, WHY WERE THE TEACHERS acting like their students could write or do anything they wanted. They are called advisers and stuff for a reason! Why I hate it when TV shows or movies depict educators as stuck up, oblivious to the world, never break the rules or you know... doing their jobs! The only shows that ever depicted school as semi realistic has been The Goldbergs and Schooled. Even Boston Public treated things as a joke or frace at time where you wanted to go: "These people would all be fired!"

You have to love how Jill will involve herself in so many non-existence problems but not do anything for any real problem. Why wasn't she and Tim talking to Mark trying to find out why he suddenly went goth? And kept trying to talk to Mark? Or calling Ronnie's parents to find out what was up with their son? Why didn't she say anything when Randy punched someone? She's the one who's always trying to convince the kids not to fight. But says nothing when he punches another kid. Or take an interest when Randy was interested in writing and causes? That's her thing. 

Not only could they write anything they want but the high school kids could make a film about anything. There's no way Mark's classmate would have been allowed to show his film. The teacher would have pulled that film and sent him to the guidance counselor who probably would have gotten counseling for him, his mom and stepdad. 

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5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Her schedule really didn't make any sense. Yeah, she always seemed to be in school when they boys were but not always. She was home during the day often too. She didn't seem to have any night classes and didn't take any summer classes.  

Pretty much. If she didn't like it, it wasn't going to happen. But at the same time she really didn't seem to do much. She always complained that she was busy. But with what? She had classes but never seemed to have a full schedule and she didn't really seem to do anything else. She joined a book club and took piano lessons but then didn't really take the time to practice. If she was as busy then why join a book club and take up lessons? But when you pointed something out to her like while she's complaining in Room at the Top of how busy she is to Tim mentions their having people over for dinner. Tim asks why are they having people over if she's so busy and stressed. Good question. But Jill yells at him that she hasn't seen her friends in six months. But why does she have to see them tonight? Why not pick a better time? Like any time during the summer when she's not going to class? She complained about spending money; but they clearly weren't hurting seeing how they life, went on trips, and blew money without any sign of problems all on Tim's paycheck. Its really hard to be sympathetic to Tim blowing money when not only is he paying for everything including all of her classes. She hasn't had to work for the most part. She doesn't seem to have work while the kids were young and then is able to quit her job in season four and go to grad school for the next five years.  She really doesn't have many real problems and yet she complains and goes on like she does. They really should have found a job for her to do. That would have given her something else to do or at least explained why she was so stressed and was taking longer to get her degree.

You have to love how Jill will involve herself in so many non-existence problems but not do anything for any real problem. Why wasn't she and Tim talking to Mark trying to find out why he suddenly went goth? And kept trying to talk to Mark? Or calling Ronnie's parents to find out what was up with their son? Why didn't she say anything when Randy punched someone? She's the one who's always trying to convince the kids not to fight. But says nothing when he punches another kid. Or take an interest when Randy was interested in writing and causes? That's her thing. 

Not only could they write anything they want but the high school kids could make a film about anything. There's no way Mark's classmate would have been allowed to show his film. The teacher would have pulled that film and sent him to the guidance counselor who probably would have gotten counseling for him, his mom and stepdad. 

It's one thing when TV shows or even comics to write: "Plot over character" but it doesn't work when you write by the seat of your pants and ignore what you did just a few episodes before and make it to where the plot is even more strange than what they had. It got to the point they just decided to go: "Well, the actors make this really funny, so I'm going to turn this up to the extreme, and it will be like the plot writes itself." It was revealed that when they had episodes where Jill was sick, was because people kept going back to the episode where Jill was sick on Super Bowl Sunday. However, it wasn't just on Patricia's acting that made it work, but the story in general. However, it was: "What do we do with Jill this episode? Hey, let's make her sick, that always work." I'll never forget when they had Wilson explaining what pheromones were and Jill had no idea what that was. SHE WAS IN SCHOOL FOR PSYCHOLOGY! How did she not know that? 

  Same with camera work or things with Tim messing up Al. The deck episode was on where they were explaining how telecom powder helps with groans in floor boards. Just like when Tim over fills the gauge with oil and hits Al with the splash. It's shown to be done on purpose than one of Tim's "accidents." Tim might as well unscrewed the cap and thrown the powder at Al, because he didn't even move it to the boards and if Tim was just going to pretend to squeeze and pressed so hard. It didn't show that. 

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To this day I will never get why Nancy NEVER locked the door to the bathroom. It was BOTH Tim and Jill's room, one of them coming in or the boys coming in. She NEVER thought about being accidentally seen. Same later when Marty makes the joke about coming in naked to Tim. Really, Tim didn't think of locking the door?

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2 hours ago, readster said:

To this day I will never get why Nancy NEVER locked the door to the bathroom. It was BOTH Tim and Jill's room, one of them coming in or the boys coming in. She NEVER thought about being accidentally seen. Same later when Marty makes the joke about coming in naked to Tim. Really, Tim didn't think of locking the door?

I don't think I ever lock bathroom doors in people's houses.  I guess as much thought as I put into it would be "why would anybody just walk into a bathroom when the door is closed?"  Plus if I have a heart attack while in there, I want ease of access for the paramedics.

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18 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't think I ever lock bathroom doors in people's houses.  I guess as much thought as I put into it would be "why would anybody just walk into a bathroom when the door is closed?"  Plus if I have a heart attack while in there, I want ease of access for the paramedics.

True, but this episode mark the last time we will EVER seen Marty actually care about his job, supporting his family. He is depicted here about really being excited to get the Charter Accountant job. Moving back to the area being closer to Tim and Jill and the boys. Having the girls be closer to family and even Nancy looking forward to hanging out with Jill more. 

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On 9/7/2019 at 7:44 AM, readster said:

True, but this episode mark the last time we will EVER seen Marty actually care about his job, supporting his family. He is depicted here about really being excited to get the Charter Accountant job. Moving back to the area being closer to Tim and Jill and the boys. Having the girls be closer to family and even Nancy looking forward to hanging out with Jill more. 

Its too bad they didn't keep that and just have Marty, Nancy and the twins on more often. It would have given Jill someone to hang out with who was also a parent and they both seemed to like each other. Tim another married brother around and maybe give them more to do and hang out with. 

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On 9/11/2019 at 5:46 AM, andromeda331 said:

Its too bad they didn't keep that and just have Marty, Nancy and the twins on more often. It would have given Jill someone to hang out with who was also a parent and they both seemed to like each other. Tim another married brother around and maybe give them more to do and hang out with. 

Yeah, as time went on, never felt like Tim, Al or Jill had any friends. Something that I did like about the boys as they grew up. They actually showed they had friends and their girlfriends had friends. I get you can't pay a lot of extras and people, but shows like Boy Meets World, Frasier and even Friends you know, showed characters interacting with others and so forth. Shows like Home Improvement where you get episodes and you wanted to know: "What strange part of the world do you live where you go to stores and you are the only one there?" Or: "Don't you have anyone to hang out with?" The horrible "shoe store bully" episode aired last night and you see the shoe store manager standing there as Mark kicks the bully to the store room. Then he is magically gone, but you see an older woman sitting down watching the whole thing. 

  Which really shows the entire part with Jill's: "Find an adult" argument is so stupid and even makes the episode come off with: "Hey remember folks, it was the late 90s, teachers just let students write horrible articles and people in their 50s will just let kids beat up others." Or same with the traffic ticket, Tim comes off sounding just as bad and why was Tim so obsessed with the "monkey" music that season?

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