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I still think that APS will do their job, but when Terri started screaming at Roy (her client), the police should have been called right then.   

On the FB page for the show, Cory posted that later the police were called, but I don't know if that happened at the clean out.   My guess is it happened after, because the update at the end of the show said she was hoarding at Roy's house again.    Terri was removed from Roy's house, and she is not allowed back.   I hope that was right before a dumpster or two cleared everything out of Roy's house that Terri hoarded there.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I still think that APS will do their job, but when Terri started screaming at Roy (her client), the police should have been called right then.   

On the FB page for the show, Cory posted the later the police were called, Terri was removed from Roy's house, and she is not allowed back.   I hope that was right before a dumpster or two cleared everything out of Roy's house that Terri hoarded there.  

That's good to know ! Thanks for the heads up.

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18 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Terri was removed from Roy's house, and she is not allowed back.   I hope that was right before a dumpster or two cleared everything out of Roy's house that Terri hoarded there.  

Thank goodness. Someone had posted above that they thought Terri was trying to get in on Roy's will somehow.  I think they were onto something. Perhaps Roy had a little bit of dementia and Terri was pretending to be his "wife" in order for her to boss him around and hoard in his house so that when he passed away, somehow she would end up with the house as a SECOND hoarding/ storage unit. 

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Roy must be completely alone in the world. If I had a friend or relative who was in that horrible woman’s care, you’d better believe I’d take some action. 

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Most veteran's homes have a waiting list to get in. We went through this with my FIL, he was on the wait list for over a year and never did get in. He was first in a nursing home where he had nothing in common with the other patients, when he developed pneumonia, they transferred him to a hospital so the home wouldn't count as having yet another someone die there.   Numbers matter to bean counters.

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On 10/18/2021 at 10:02 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

BSOJ-She's hoarding Roy's house again, and only went to one aftercare session.    Code Enforcement let her stay overnight in her own home again.     I hope someone at Adult Protective Services saw this episode, and rescues Roy from her. 

Speaking of that "BSOJ" ("black screen of judgement" or "black screen of justice", for any newbies reading 😃 - and still can't believe the term made it into someone's dissertation!), I just finally got to watching this episode earlier today and I happened to notice that for this season they (finally) updated the main title music.

Also gone are the stark, echoing, heavily processed single piano hits immediately following the main title to "set the stage". And same with the "BSOJ" and closing credits music getting the change-up.

Two other thoughts:

1) At one point, Terri seriously butchered the name of our beloved "The Zaz" by saying something like "This is Dr. Zarssio!" in introducing Roy to her. I was so curious I had to go back a few seconds to see if the closed-captions caught it that way. Sadly, it was not to be, and the closed captions read the correct "Dr. Zasio". A small part of me hoped it would be the phonetically spelt-out butchered word or a snarky "[Terri mispronounces Dr. Zasio's name]". 

2) They also did this cool effect showing a still photo of Terri on a boat (with that 3D photo effect thing that is the rage) and although it was a still photo the water was "rippling" to show some tide as the photo slowly zoomed in if you looked closely enough. Now I know that's not the hardest thing to do (compositing/digital replacement) in this day and age with Adobe After Effects and Instagram filters with cat ears and stuff, but that somebody actually said "Hey, let's do that" to try to perk up the visual I appreciated. Stay classy, "Hoarders", and keep upping your game - it's the only way you'll make it through ANOTHER 13 seasons! 😄 

Hoarders-water.jpg

 

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I spent most of the show trying to figure out who that girl was constantly touching Tiffany since I missed the beginning.  At first I thought a girlfriend, but then I heard it was her sister's daughter.  Very close cousins?  Odd, since Tiffany seemed fine with everything and not really in need of much support...

Take the $70k and run!

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Tiffany collects books, lots of books.   New Berlin, Wisconsin.   I'm so scared for Tiffany, as a Little Person living in 2300 sq. ft. or stacked books, she could be hurt and no one would know.    She used to work at a bookstore, and had a great employee discount.    I bet she also bought off of the remainder and clearance items too.  

Dr. Tobin and Cory are in this episode.  This is Tiffany's family home, where she grew up.   Both parents liked "collecting" crafting stuff, art and sewing supplies, glassware.   Father collected appliance parts, tools, and one of his cars is in the garage.   It's only Tiffany and her sister, Becky,  two years apart.   Tiffany is 4' tall.   The grandmother and parents lived in the house, and were all hoarders of some degree. 

 When Becky moved out the relationship deteriorated, and she wasn't allowed inside the house, when it was just Tiffany and the family.    In 2019 both parents died.     

Becky and Jeff (husband) saw the house in 2019, after the parents died.   Tiffany is reduced to very little area to live in, so she moved in with Becky, Jeff, and the niece, Rachel,  at Becky's house.   Tiffany has piled junk all over her bedroom, and bed at Becky's house.     When Tiffany moved in, Becky and family had to make the house accessible for Tiffany.   Becky and Jeff's marriage is suffering because of Tiffany.     

Becky and Tiffany have been working on the original house for 18 months.   The goal is to clean out the original house, and build a house to accommodate Tiffany that's safer, and clean on the lot next to Becky's house.    The new house would be built next to Becky's house on a separate piece of land. 

Dr. Tolin's arrival is interesting.   Tiffany blames a lot on her parents, and their hoarding.  Tiffany only claims the books, and craft stuff.   Then, Dr. Tolin sees the ceiling cracks, and they're attributed to the books on the second story.   

The basement has three cracked joists/beams in the ceiling, all three are side-by-side.   Dr. Tolin stops the tour, calls Cory Chalmers for help.    The house structure is so compromised that a structural engineer is called in to tell them if it's safe to even be in the house.   

The structural engineer says they'll have to use props to brace the house for the cleanout.  The structural engineer seeing the books on the second floor says it from the weigh of the books causing the house structure to fail.   The engineer says he's not sure why the house hasn't collapsed.    Becky and Tiffany are co-owners of the original house, inherited from the parents.   The engineer talking about the domino effect collapsing the house is scary as hell.     I think they should have called the city inspectors in, and decided if the house should be bulldozed.     

First day progress is amazing, but I would have put shutes to the second floor, and started clearing out from the second floor to take the load off the house, then do the first floor, and then the basement. 

 Then, Tiffany starts backtracking with a book dealer, who offers her $1,000 for everything.    She was fine with dumping everything of her parents' and grandmother, but she doesn't want to get rid of the massive weigh of books and magazines.  

Tiffany claims they'll donate her books to the local library system.   I bet 99% will either go to a book sale, or dumped.      Then, Tiffany wants her massive collection of paint and art supplies.  How good can all of the years old paint be?   

I think sister Becky has realized that the co-owned house will be a tear down, and won't be enough for her sister to build her own place.      That means that Tiffany will be staying at Becky's house for a long time.   After the sister's husband talks about being in the parents' house and seeing the walls, and a pretty clear house 15 years ago, then I suspect much of the hoarding is Tiffany. 

I feel sorry for Becky, she's lived her whole life being ignored for her sister, and I bet being made another parent for her sister, and now having the sister in her house for almost two years now.    Now Tiffany is the star of everything again, and Becky is being put aside again.     I wonder how they're going to finance a custom house for Tiffany?   Everything will have to be custom, so she can reach it, and that's going to drive the price very high. My guess is that the parents always expected Becky to be the sister's caretaker. 

Getting the shutes to dump stuff from the second floor is such a smart idea.    So, Tiffany had therapy before the show, so she just applied to be on it for the free work.  I can only imagine when the investor comes to look at the house.  

So, after clearing out many dumpsters of trash, they could raise the floor jacks again.  Tiffany is trashing a lot of her art supplies, and everything that belonged to other people.   They've removed 12 open dumpster of trash, with more to come.  60 tons of trash was removed, plus the books, and other donation, plus what Tiffany kept.   The cleaning crew are doing such a good job. However, there's a shipping container full of Tiffany's keep stuff. 

 The house appraisers arrive.  They spot what looks like Black Mold.  They also think the roof is bad, and there are water leaks.   The appraisers say that they could buy the house, as is.   The offer is $70k, cash, quick close.    I bet Becky will be expected to give Tiffany every penny from her half of the profits.    I think Becky's entire life was only to support her sister.   

(The previews for next week are another collector.)

BSOJ-Tiffany and Becky are going to sell the house, not to the investors, but it's not listed yet.   (my opinion, they should have sold it when they had a cash 'as is' offer).  Becky and Jeff are restoring the Corvette.    Tiffany is doing aftercare, but is still living with Becky and Jeff. 

 

My view is Tiffany only came on the show for the free labor from the cleanout and cleaning crews, and a chance to be the star of the production.    I think part of the reason Becky was so upset is that she realized that again, her sister and late parents used and lied to her.   I'm betting everything in the parents' home revolved around Tiffany, and Becky was always ignored, except as a caretaker for her sister.   

I think Becky also realized that having Tiffany living with her for 18 months was only the start, and her strained marriage will only get worse.    The parents' house wasn;t finished with the clean out either, there was still the basement, maybe an attic, and Tiffany had a full shipping container of stuff she kept.    I wonder if there were any outbuildings full of junk too?   

Tiffany really enjoyed saying everything but the books and art supplies were her parents, and so she was only following what they did in hoarding.    The bedroom Tiffany was squatting in at her sister's home had a lot of stuff in it, and I'm betting that there's even more Tiffany moved in.     The sisters should have sold to the cash buyers, and moved on.   

In all of the time the sisters had been working on the house before the show crew came, they hadn't made a dent, so I bet the house will just sit there, still with the rest of the junk in it, and never be cleaned out.    My guess is that if Tiffany ever moves out, that the new house will be full of her shipping container full of useless stuff, and be hoarded full in no time.   For once in her life, Becky needs to do what she wants to, and let her sister figure it out.    I would have demanded that the house be sold, because I bet it will cost a lot of money to finish the cleanout, repair the known structural issues, and ever sell the place.     

When the sisters, probably Tiffany, said no to the generous offer from the investors, I was done with worrying about them.   I think Becky was so emotional, because she realized that her life is not getting better, her sister is still mooching off of her, and taking over her home, ruining her marriage, and Tiffany will never leave that house.  I found the soliliquy from Tiffany at the end cringe worthy, and just another chance to make sure everything revolved around her.    I wonder how much of the stuff Tiffany claimed was the parents' stuff, was actually was hers?  

Becky needs to petition the court for a forced sale of that house, and then sell it 'as is'.    I bet a real buyer, not on TV shown as a good guy, wouldn't pay $70k, clean out the rest, and close quick.  A cash buyer is the only way that house will ever be sold, so again.  I bet another buyer will offer less, and say that the second the house closes, everything in it is the new owner who will call for a crew and dumpsters.    They'll also tell Tiffany to get that shipping container off their property too. 

 I bet that container will go on the lot next to Becky's house, where there will never be a separate house for Tiffany.   I bet when the daughter leaves for college, that the husband will leave too, leaving Tiffany and Becky behind.     

Tiffany (I suspect Becky wanted to sell) stands in the way of ending the house fiasco.    I wonder if Tiffany's new plan is to modify the house for her needs, repair the structural issues, and move back?    I wonder what other issues will be found after removing all of the bad drywall?    I'm guessing that the house will be a tear down at that point.   I bet even if they every sold that house, that Becky wouldn't get her half, but give it to her sister. 

 The house had major structural issues, I bet all of the wiring, plumbing, etc. needs to be replaced, the roof was rotten, and needed a complete replacement, and there were water leaks, and vermin, and that's without removing the bad dry wall, and exposing what I'm guessing are many other structural and framing issues.   

 I bet that a great majority of the parents stuff was actually Tiffany's, and was done after the parents couldn't stop her any longer.    I know the books were Tiffany's, but I bet the parents didn't pile stuff all over the place, I bet Tiffany did.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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BSOJ-Tiffany and Becky are going to sell the house, not to the investors, but it's not listed yet.   (my opinion, they should have sold it when they had a cash 'as is' offer).  Becky and Jeff are restoring the COrvette.    Tiffany is doing aftercare, but is still living with Becky and Jeff. 

I understand that Tiffany had therapy before the show to address her hoarding and that's what helped make it so easy (relatively speaking) for her to part with stuff. But I have my suspicions about Becky. She had a lot of emotion that she held in and the fact that they didn't jump at that offer - and still haven't listed the house - makes me think that she has some issues letting go. Maybe she isn't a hoarder but she didn't escape unscathed either.

I don't know what houses in that neighborhood sell for - it looked like a nice area - but I think that house would have to be a tear down or at the very least, gutted inside. Then again, if the plan was for the sisters to split the proceeds, each sister would end up with less than $35,000, and I don't think that was going to be anywhere near enough to build Tiffany a new home, even if they did already own the land. Maybe that's what gave them pause???

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How refreshing to see a hoarder who admitted that she was a hoarder, had already sought help for it, and was pleasant during the clean out.  Does Tiffany have a job?  I don't see why she couldn't live in an apartment.  Sure, it wouldn't be adapted to her size, but there are stools and other tools to make her life easier.  I'm not sure why everyone seems to think that she needs to be taken care of.  

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If anyone in the family is at all handy and self starting, customizing a house isn't that hard. Building for a large muscular athlete or a tall basketball player is worse.

Doors don't have to be shortened, but put the knobs lower. 

Windows: cut out the existing window and drop it; put a transom at the top and it doesn't have to open.

Kitchens: wall cabinets: lower them, sink drops down, countertops can be salvaged, cut off a couple of drawers. 

Bathrooms are more easily handled by adding a step up and raising the floor. 

 

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I liked Tiffany, her positive attitude and her pleasant voice, but I also felt sorry for Becky.  When Dr. Tolin tried to get Becky to talk about why she was upset, I figured  Becky couldn't say anything because how do you say, "I'm furious at my disabled sister for ruining this house!"  There was a lot to be learned in this episode about just how much weight a house can take.

They should have taken the 70,000.  The land for Tiffany's house is already there and she only needs a tiny, one bedroom house, so I think some contractor would build it for her for not too much.  I also think Becky would find it worth contributing most of her half to get Tiffany in her own house.

I liked hearing Tiffany praise my favorite, Dr. Tolin, for his kind, gentle manner.

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1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

There was a lot to be learned in this episode about just how much weight a house can take.

What are you implying about my pandemic snacking over the last 19 months or so? 😁

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Kudos to you, @CrazyInAlabama, you said it all perfectly!

The only thing I would add is that the car was probably worth more than the house. 

It was nice to see someone not too crazy accept the help and get a lot accomplished.  Duh, didn't anyone ever consider the weight of those books all those years that it took to collect them???

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I live in the general vicinity of New Berlin, and this is a very hot area, real-estate-wise. Less than an acre of raw land currently runs almost $100K, and the cheapest house currently available on MLS is $185K, and it's a dump on less than a half acre. So $70K seems like a low-ball price, but otoh, it'll probably cost $50K to demolish and clean up the lot. I would guess rehabbing the house would run the developers over $100K.

Becky probably made promises to the parents to take care of Tiffany for the rest of her life, but she's a fool if she thinks that requires her to subsidize a special needs house, even if it were affordable for them. If Becky wants to save her marriage, she needs to get Tiffany into a special needs or assisted living situation (which I'm positive won't happen, so, as usual, they're doomed).😞

eta: I also wonder why Tiffany doesn't work? I didn't catch her age or if she drives, but she seems to be quite mobile, not old, of above average intelligence and apparently has been employed in the past. Especially now, she should be able to find something, even if it's 'work from home' stuff.

 

Edited by sempervivum · Reason: forgot this bit
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Agree with the assessments about Tiffany; she was way too happy all through this, loving the attention.  If she didn't care about any of that stuff, why did she hoard it?  Poor Becky!

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Tiffany had to be the most normal (and nicest) hoarder that's been featured on this show. (Frankly, I don't think she was really much of a hoarder outside the books.) As she seemed really intelligent and articulate, I'm curious as to why she didn't seem to work outside the home. Regardless, I hope she gets to build her own home but with half of $70k (if they ever bother to accept that offer), it's not a lot to help her get started. 

As for Becky: when she wore her mask, she was a dead ringer for Rashida Jones. 

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Tiffany is 4" tall.  

Wow, CrazyInAlabama, she is really a "little person"! :D  (sorry, I do editing all day)

Tiffany didn't appear as awful and combative as some of the folks we've seen, but I imagine they should have offered Becky aftercare.  There was something really off about her reaction.   Tiffany was *almost* a little selfish (that's not the right word) about her decluttering and Becky was probably thinking "they left me to clean out this place and be responsible for my sister who is only responsible for herself".  Maybe she didn't want Tiffany next door. 

19 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

As she seemed really intelligent and articulate, I'm curious as to why she didn't seem to work outside the home.

Could she be on some kind of disability because of her dwarfism? 

Edited by ItsHelloPattiagain · Reason: cos apparently I can't spell dwarfism even though I edit documents all day
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7 hours ago, all4mom2 said:

Agree with the assessments about Tiffany; she was way too happy all through this, loving the attention.  If she didn't care about any of that stuff, why did she hoard it?  Poor Becky!

I don't think Tiffany hoarded it; I think her parents hoarded it and she was left to it when they died. I do think that Tiffany hoarded the books and it really impressed me that she let them go for such a small sum of money. I was surprised that it was Becky who had a really hard time getting rid of some old, hoarded clothes that her mother evidently had kept for some reason. She seemed to have a really hard time letting those go.

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On 10/25/2021 at 10:02 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think sister Becky has realized that the co-owned house will be a tear down, and won't be enough for her sister to build her own place.      That means that Tiffany will be staying at Becky's house for a long time.

That's probably the concerns that Becky was unable to voice to Dr Tolin.

On 10/25/2021 at 10:02 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think Becky was so emotional, because she realized that her life is not getting better, her sister is still mooching off of her, and taking over her home, ruining her marriage,

Not only that, but Tiffany seems to have usurped Becky's daughter's affection from her.

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It's not easy letting go of your parents' personal effects, especially just a year or so after their passing; maybe Becky is still grieving, which would be perfectly normal.  Tiffany to me seemed really cold and insensitive and also unwilling to accept responsibility.  And yes, she could be on disability due to her dwarfism.  I agree that a house -- especially next door to a sister who seems to dread having to be responsible for her -- isn't necessarily the best choice, but she's probably used to getting what she wants...

Edited by all4mom2
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I watched it slowly tonight, all of it. 

I'm not sure what I think of Tiffany. First, did she read any of the books or magazines? It's unlikely as she couldn't reach, lift, extract more than the top two or three from any of the piles.

I'd almost call Tiffany a painting that only exists as a charcoal sketch.  For someone who collected paints, acryllics, pastels and watercolors, I didn't see a single piece of art work (good, bad or indifferent) that she had done. Did she only collect and not do which would be an extension of collecting books and not reading them.

There are two things that were mentioned in passing. The sisters' parents only died two years ago. 

Tiffany could not bring that amount of stuff into that house in a bit less than two years.  How much was hers? Physically, there was stuff there that a small person who apparently didn't drive could not have carried home from a shop or estate sale or anywhere more than a block away. 

Which brings up the second giraffe in the room question;

How the heck did those tall piles of stuff grow upwards all the way to the ceiling? I didn't see any ladders. (I am a bit of five feet tall and I KNOW how many shelves I can't reach, even shelves in the grocery stores that I can't reach) Tiffany had books that were six inches below the presumed eight foot high ceiling.  How did the books get up there? All the many, many books way above where she could reach. Were her parents the ones who built the towering masses of books? Dangerous towers of books.

 

And how could Becky and her husband tolerate the trashing out by Tiffany of her bedroom?  Their house= their rules.

  The daughter/niece was tolerating the lumps of clothes which is not good for her long range attitudes.

 

To me, it was superficially a good outcome. But I think it may have been an incomplete story.

A final downer thought:  these stories have introduced us to many, many family members who are damaged by blood relatives.  I wish we could have follow up interviews with them and could hear how their lives were better. But I would not want such a show to exist because I think the folks on the sides have suffered enough and maybe their privacy is all they have left.  I can only wish them well from a distance. 

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13 hours ago, suzeecat said:

Duh, didn't anyone ever consider the weight of those books all those years that it took to collect them???

I found that bizarre, also. As the piles accumulated nobody said or paused to reflect "Hmm, these are weighing more and more every week that passes..."  I suppose when you're in that particular mindset, whether just "messy" or a genuine mental disorder in hoarding, it's the least of your thoughts. Surprised they didn't hear the house creaking and groaning in obvious dismay.

The amusing thing to me is that Tiffany is obviously passionate about books and therefore we might assume knowledge, assuming she's even put the smallest dent into actually reading them, but in those pans of book spines and with visible titles thanks to high-definition, there were no books on structural engineering or exceeding load tolerances. So much knowledge, all elsewhere to that which she really desperately needed to make the mental lightbulb go on! 😄

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11 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

Wow, CrazyInAlabama, she is really a "little person"! :D  (sorry, I do editing all day)

Tiffany didn't appear as awful and combative as some of the folks we've seen, but I imagine they should have offered Becky aftercare.  There was something really off about her reaction.   Tiffany was *almost* a little selfish (that's not the right word) about her decluttering and Becky was probably thinking "they left me to clean out this place and be responsible for my sister who is only responsible for herself".  Maybe she didn't want Tiffany next door. 

Could she be on some kind of disability because of her dwarfish? 

I fixed the height I put down to 4'.     Oops!

Good point about the giant stacks of everything.    There must have been someone who came in and moved and stacked items for her.     There is no way the parents could have done it, the mother was very ill for a long time before she died, and there was no where for them to sleep and live in that house.   So, someone must have filled the spaces after the parents died, I'm guessing Tiffany had a couple of helpers at least to move things around and stack them.     My guess is that the parents moved to the first floor when the upstairs was full, and when they were ailing, so that's why so many books were upstairs.    Someone must have helped move and stack items.   

I think Becky was so upset because she realized that her parents and Tiffany had wasted so much money, ruined the house, and then left Becky to take care of everything again.   I think the fact that Tiffany will never leave Becky's house really hit her too.    I'm wondering how much stuff was left in that house between the attic, and the basement?   There is no way the amount of stuff that Tiffany had them cram into that shipping container would fit into a one bedroom house.    I think the parents were level one hoarders, but Becky was the level five.    I hope this clean up of the house was a wake up call for Becky to make rules for her house, where Tiffany had to clean up, and only what fit in the closet, and in that room was staying, and it had to be clean and neat.    I wouldn't let her bring anything else into a house I owned either.   If she gets the chance, Becky's house will become Tiffany's new hoard.   

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm wondering how much stuff was left in that house between the attic, and the basement? 

Me too. I know the show doesn't have endless money, but just one more day would have cleaned out the last two rooms and probably the basement and attic.  In the beginning Becky said she had tried to clean out the house and found it to be just impossible.  If the show had already removed 30,000 tons (is that right?) then there had to be many tons left and Becky could never carry that all out herself.

Just to give myself an idea of how much that is I remember that when the U.S. Air Force moved us from one place to another we were allowed 18,000 pounds total.  We had about 3000 pounds.  That was normal furniture for a living room, dining area and two bedrooms plus all our "stuff."  Yes we are borderline minimalists, but our friends who were normal Americans with three kids and a full house/garage/basement /attic load still came easily within the 18,000 limit.

No wonder Becky was crying when she realized the hopeless situation she was in.  I would like to have heard the conversation when they decided not to sell for $70,000.  It may be worth more, but now it's just sitting there in the way of any progress toward getting Becky out of her house.

It horrifies me to think of having a relative move in and start hoarding my house but I have sympathy for Tiffany too.  Deep down she must be very afraid of living alone in a new place for the first time in her life.  That feeling of loneliness may be why she hoarded her parents' house so soon after they died. 

She probably couldn't find another job after her bookstore closed.  She is more limited than it first appears and she may have serious leg or back trouble. I saw someone helping her down her front steps, which weren't high, but above her knees. I'm surprised she was ever able to carry those books home and someone else must have stacked them for her.

I just feel like the show got them half way there and then dropped the ball.  Plus I really, really wanted to see a little house fitted out for her.

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On 10/22/2021 at 1:21 AM, RobustRutabaga said:

At one point, Terri seriously butchered the name of our beloved "The Zaz" by saying something like "This is Dr. Zarssio!" in introducing Roy to her. I was so curious I had to go back a few seconds to see if the closed-captions caught it that way. Sadly, it was not to be, and the closed captions read the correct "Dr. Zasio". A small part of me hoped it would be the phonetically spelt-out butchered word or a snarky "[Terri mispronounces Dr. Zasio's name]". 

Of course, her actual name is Dr Tonya Hoarding.

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I just watched the first two episodes back-to-back.

Terri was awful, that poor old man. I'm so glad to see from Cory's update that she's no longer allowed in Roy's home. She'll never change, and her next victim will be Kraig. Horrible woman.

I liked Tiffany. Unlike most of the beasts we see on this show, she was polite and pleasant, and also seemed to have some insight into her hoarding - although there was also a bit of denial about who had hoarded the house. I suspect it was her as much as her parents.

From the photos we saw and the rooms that were cleared, it looked as if it had once been a really lovely mid-century house (I love that style of house), and it's such a pity that it was allowed to deteriorate like that. Once it's fully empty it might be salvageable, and in my ideal scenario it'd be bought by someone who'd repair and restore it, rather than tear it down. I think the car is the big ticket item here and if they sold that, the sisters might double their profit.

I felt sad for Becky. I'm sure she'd promised her parents she'd look after Tiffany, without realising the full implications of it. The niece, husband and cousins were lovely too. It was so unusual and refreshing to have such a nice group of people on this show. But as I watch this show for the snark, I hope it doesn't continue!

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I bet Becky was just raised to take care of her sister forever, and I bet Tiffany was the only person in the family that counted.    Unfortunately, that happens a lot to siblings of someone with disabilities.   I think the sisters screwed up when they turned down the cash offer on the house, and the buyers said they would pay cash, repair the damages, and still clean out anything Tiffany wanted to keep.   

I'm wondering if Tiffany now thinks she can repair the house, instead of build a one bedroom place for her.   There's no way that the amount of stuff in that shipping container, and whatever else Tiffany has stashed, plus what she would keep out of the remaining house contents, would be able to fit in a small house.    I'm sure she would need at least a huge family room for her art supplies, and everything else she kept from the hoard.   

I bet the new plan is a demand to fix up the parent's house, and then adapt everything to Tiffany, and she moves back there.    Instead of getting $70,000 to split, there will be endless bills to fix the floor joists, adapt cabinets, light switches, and everything else to Tiffany's height, and it will never get finished.    I'm guessing the structural engineer was right, the house needs a totally new roof, and all of the sheet rock removed to see what damage the water has done, and to see what other structural issues exist.   I would not be surprised to see the house bulldozed.     

I feel sorry for Becky, because Tiffany will never move out of her house, which will end her marriage eventually.   She will have to be very firm with Tiffany or Becky's house will end up looking like Becky's room, with junk everywhere.    Just because Tiffany has disabilities, doesn't mean she can't keep her room organized, and without stuff piled everywhere.   I would demand Tiffany either clean up or move out.   I think the parents only left the house split 50/50 between the daughters because they trained Becky to always give in to her sister.   

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think the sisters screwed up when they turned down the cash offer on the house, and the buyers said they would pay cash, repair the damages, and still clean out anything Tiffany wanted to keep.   

Agreed. They could use that money to build Tiffany a tiny (SORRY) house.  They're not super expensive and can be tailored to her needs.

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4 minutes ago, LGraves65 said:

Agreed. They could use that money to build Tiffany a tiny (SORRY) house.  They're not super expensive and can be tailored to her needs.

Considering Tiffany wanted an art studio, and kept at least a full shipping container of stuff, there is no way she would get her stuff in anything smaller than a big two bedroom with a family room/storage room, so with everything they would have profitted from the cash sale, I bet they were a couple of hundred thousand needed to build what Tiffany demanded.    I suspect the sale falling through was because she wants the original house fixed, and then she can rehoard it in no time.    I bet she's sending applications to every charity building place she can find.   

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My heart broke for Becky.  Her marriage is unstable and the major cause of that instability seems to be her sister, whose lifestyle impacts anyone nearby.  And it doesn't look like Tiffany will ever live anywhere BUT nearby.  Plus, her daughter was so demonstrative of her affection for her aunt . . . constantly touching her and always by her side.  Mama needed daughter to show some of that affection to her.  

I had a brother who was a hoarder.  It was nothing like what we saw on this episode, but over 1,000 DVDs/VHS movies in a 400 SF apartment, not to mention multiples of EVERYTHING, plus tacky plastic flowers and 20+ large popcorn tins of "decor" items for a place without a clear surface to decorate.

We begged him for the last few years of his life to start donating his "valuable" decor items and to allow us to go through stacks of paperwork and shred what didn't need to be kept (about 80% of what was there).  He laughed and said, "You just don't want to have to clean this up when I die."  He was absolutely right.  Every time we went to his place, we felt the foreboding doom of having to do just that, and his lack of concern about the work he was assigning to us did not help our relationship at all.

Then he died.  Less than 1% of what he had was kept by family members, and the rest was donated or disposed of within one week.  Thank God his place was small.

About Tiffany:  No way that place just got that bad after her parents died.  They must have supported her hoarding proclivities and helped neatly stack those pristine books.  But then we saw THEIR stuff.  At least Tiffany's stuff looked tidier and better organized - but she still had WAY too much.  She was smiling and happy because she was getting so much attention from the people involved with the filming, and that outweighed her feelings about her stuff.  I suspect Becky was probably off to the side thinking, "You weren't so cooperative when WE tried to get you to get rid of stuff.  But now you're the little princess, getting all the attention.  Again."

I found a lot of this episode to be very sad.

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2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

My heart broke for Becky.  Her marriage is unstable and the major cause of that instability seems to be her sister, whose lifestyle impacts anyone nearby.  And it doesn't look like Tiffany will ever live anywhere BUT nearby.  Plus, her daughter was so demonstrative of her affection for her aunt . . . constantly touching her and always by her side.  Mama needed daughter to show some of that affection to her. 

I think the reason Becky finally broke down wasn't seeing the dump the house turned into, or how much was wasted on items that were junked, it was realizing that Tiffany is never going to move out of Becky's house, and would need a big house to hold the junk she kept.   

Becky's entire life was sacrificed to her sister.    Now, Becky realizes that her marriage will soon end, her daughter is being taken over by Tiffany, and Becky will spend her life with Tiffany's junky room in Becky's house, and with Tiffany's shipping containers (you know she'll get at least one more) sitting next to the parent's house.   

Tiffany will never sell the parents' house, and I suspect she wants the house fixed, and modified, so Tiffany can have room for her junk.  In Becky's place I would give Tiffany a 30 day notice to move out, and petition the court for a forced sale of the property.    Tiffany could take her half of the money, move out to a double wide, and Becky could get her life back.  

Good point about 'artistic' Tiffany not having a single work of art, or any craft stuff around.    

I feel for Becky, growing up everything centered around Tiffany, her medical needs, and the Little People club activities, and nothing was left over for Becky.   Look at how Tiffany and the parents banned Becky from coming in the house for 15 years, and then when the parents die, it's only then Tiffany drags her into the mess the three of them created.   

I bet almost everything was Tiffany's, and the parents just went along with it.   The father's tools and things seemed very organized and neat, for a hoarder.  I suspect the father had a lot of automotive parts, and tools, but actually worked on cars.  The mother decorated, until she was too sick.   THe old photos of the house interior doesn't show a hoard, it's only when Tiffany grew up that the hoarding seems to happen.      

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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On 6/23/2021 at 5:12 PM, Elizzikra said:

True. I wonder though if it wouldn't be nice to see a good outcome sometimes, even if it wasn't quite such a dramatic transformation...

Reminds me of the shows about weight loss surgery. They rarely have people who are like, 250-300 pounds -- fat but not immobile. Because it's not as dramatic.

But even Hoarders used to have Level 1, 2, etc. hoarders initially. Like the Pumpkin Lady. She was a mess but was redeemable.

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12 hours ago, enoughcats said:

I didn't see a single piece of art work (good, bad or indifferent) that she had done.

Yes, I thought this, too. I also noticed that most of the books whose titles I could read (admittedly only a tiny fraction of the hoard) were of the coffee-table type of art/fashion/architecture subjects. Not the kind of thing people are ever going to re-read, even if they could access them. 

That wall in the living room with the open shelves decorated with 60's objects must have been done by the parents; makes you wonder when the switch flipped in them to the point where the pile of junk obliterated their artistic display?

 

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31 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Yes, I thought this, too. I also noticed that most of the books whose titles I could read (admittedly only a tiny fraction of the hoard) were of the coffee-table type of art/fashion/architecture subjects. Not the kind of thing people are ever going to re-read, even if they could access them. 

I bet the bookstore Tiffany worked at had a big remainder, and clearance section of books that the store purchases in bulk, they're often the coffee table ones, and sell very cheap, plus she had a good employee discount too.     She didn't say how long she worked there, or when she stopped, but I bet that's when the parents moved downstairs full time, and she took over the upstairs.     There must have been some neighbors or someone who would haul and stack Tiffany's stuff.    

I really feel for Becky, her entire life revolves around Tiffany and what she want, and now Tiffany has moved in with her hoard, and will never leave.  

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I just finished watching Terri, and I feel terrible for Roy. It was his house, they should have just thrown everything out, with his permission. Why consult her at all? How did she ever become a caregiver? This is definitely an episode where I think they coddled the hoarder far too much. 

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So Becky and Tiffany refused the cash offer.  If they had to split the 70,000 no way 35 would be enough to build a new home for Tiffany.   Not sure how much they thought they could get, the house was falling apart and dangerous.  

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As always, I suspect that Tiffany would whine until Becky gave her the entire $70,000. 

 However, I really think that Tiffany wants Becky to finance fixing up the family house, which will cost a lot of money.   Not only are there the three broken joists in the basement ceiling, but the roof is totally shot, plus water leaks, and who knows how much damage is behind the dry wall.     I'm betting that Tiffany will start whining that Becky and husband should sell the Corvette, and give her that money also.   

 I think Tiffany wants the family house fixed up, and modified for her, and to move back in.    There is no way Tiffany's shipping container, and other stuff will fit in anything like a small house next to her sister's house, on that separate lot.      

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Split the money and let Tiffany fend for herself.  Let her find assisted living or such, but Becky needs to think of her own family.
 

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So Becky and Tiffany refused the cash offer.  If they had to split the 70,000 no way 35 would be enough to build a new home for Tiffany.   Not sure how much they thought they could get, the house was falling apart and dangerous.  

I was thinking that if the offer was $70,000, they wouldn't each get even $35,000. Aren't there other costs that would have to come out of the sale price before the sisters split the proceeds? So it's maybe not even $35,000 apiece.

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6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

So it's maybe not even $35,000 apiece.

Well there didn't seem to be a realtor involved and usually the buyer gets stuck with the title fees, etc.  I think the $35,000 or even slightly less, would have been enough for a good down payment and Tiffany could then make mortgage payments from her social security disability payments, for which I imagine she qualifies. She and Becky may have inherited some money as well as the house. 

I thought Tiffany sounded really excited about a little house with counters and appliances she could reach so I really don't think she wanted that big house with all those horrible stairs. I can't imagine climbing stairs that were higher than my knees.

Becky seemed to be living her own life right up until her parents' death, and even then it seemed like  some time had passed before they went to see Tiffany. Becky said it was her husband who insisted it was unsafe and Tiffany should come live with them, so although Becky and her husband are probably fed up by now with Tiffany and her mess, I don't see the situation as so dire, that  the marriage will break up.

They just need to insist on going forward with a sale and getting Becky her own place whether it's a house, an apartment, or a mobile home parked on the lot they have.  Becky said Tiffany will always need some help but it didn't seem to me that it was going to ruin her life to go over and wash her hair for her once a week, or take her to the grocery store or whatever. 

I hope we get a follow up on this one someday.

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I thought Tiffany sounded really excited about a little house with counters and appliances she could reach so I really don't think she wanted that big house with all those horrible stairs. I can't imagine climbing stairs that were higher than my knees.

I can see that. If you live in an entire world that is outsized for you, I'd think having a home that is perfectly suited and tailored for you would be really nice. Even opening a door is harder for Tiffany than for an averaged sized person. That must get really old, really fast.

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I'm under 5' tall, and getting up in years.

The secret to success when you have physical challenges you can't rectify is to modify the space around you to meet your needs as best you can.

The space around a little person that they can reach best is low . . . obviously.  So if you have stuff piled up over your head, you've made more challenges for yourself.  That's why tidiness is even more important for short people.

I don't use any shelves for day-to-day things that I can't reach without a stool.  And all of my lower shelves and bottom cabinets are extremely well organized for optimal storage and accessibility. 

Becky's major problem is not her height - it's her hoard of stuff that keeps her from using her space effectively.  I'd suspect that - like many hoarders' homes we've seen - most of her drawers and cabinets are empty.  Everything is piled up around the room instead of being where it belongs.  

One of the things I always liked about Kim and Aggie on British TV's "How Clean Is Your House?" is that there was no psychologist trying to understand why houses were dirty or over-filled.  K&A came in, told the occupant(s) that they needed to change their priorities to keep a healthy environment, cleaned (with the help of a crew), and then (usually) left them with a list of what to do every day to keep the place tidy.  Most of the participants maintained a much better level of cleanliness, because they started from square one with a clean house.  None of them seemed traumatized by the loss of their filth.

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2 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I can see that. If you live in an entire world that is outsized for you, I'd think having a home that is perfectly suited and tailored for you would be really nice. Even opening a door is harder for Tiffany than for an averaged sized person. That must get really old, really fast.

My guess is Tiffany would never be able to fit all of the stuff she still has in a one bedroom house.    I think that she wants the parents' house fixed, and modified for her, and then she can fill that one up too.   

Every conversation with Cory, or anyone else talked about how she wanted an art studio, and a lot of room for her art supplies.    I bet most of the art supplies are dried out, and useless.    I agree that there was not one single piece of art work done by Tiffany, and the older stuff in the parents' house looked like photos, or commercial works.   

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2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I'm under 5' tall, and getting up in years.

The secret to success when you have physical challenges you can't rectify is to modify the space around you to meet your needs as best you can.

The space around a little person that they can reach best is low . . . obviously.  So if you have stuff piled up over your head, you've made more challenges for yourself.  That's why tidiness is even more important for short people.

I don't use any shelves for day-to-day things that I can't reach without a stool.  And all of my lower shelves and bottom cabinets are extremely well organized for optimal storage and accessibility. 

Becky's major problem is not her height - it's her hoard of stuff that keeps her from using her space effectively.  I'd suspect that - like many hoarders' homes we've seen - most of her drawers and cabinets are empty.  Everything is piled up around the room instead of being where it belongs.  

One of the things I always liked about Kim and Aggie on British TV's "How Clean Is Your House?" is that there was no psychologist trying to understand why houses were dirty or over-filled.  K&A came in, told the occupant(s) that they needed to change their priorities to keep a healthy environment, cleaned (with the help of a crew), and then (usually) left them with a list of what to do every day to keep the place tidy.  Most of the participants maintained a much better level of cleanliness, because they started from square one with a clean house.  None of them seemed traumatized by the loss of their filth.

Agree with all this, AZ.  I now keep everything in the kitchen on the bottom two shelves, and yesterday I found I couldn't get my stick vacuum all the way under the bed without squatting -- I haven't been able to squat for years -- so I called my son and thought, "So it begins."

I like the tough love the British organizers give the hoarders, too.  On the Compulsively Clean show one of them  was  trying to help a stubborn old man and finally told him to "Put your hand down your pants, find your balls, and make a decision!"  Heh,

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3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Agree with all this, AZ.  I now keep everything in the kitchen on the bottom two shelves, and yesterday I found I couldn't get my stick vacuum all the way under the bed without squatting -- I haven't been able to squat for years -- so I called my son and thought, "So it begins."

may I introduce you to the OXO microfiber duster. It extends, and the duster part bends as much or as little as you want it to. The orange part comes off and survives a vigorous was in the washing machine and dryer just fine.

That stick extends to at least four feet and it's the OXO Duster.

If we keep worrying about dust bunnies, we're winning. 

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61cQI2CjJaL._AC_UL320_.jpg

Edited by enoughcats
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If we keep worrying about dust bunnies, we're winning. 

But if I get rid of the dust bunnies, the cat has nothing to play with...

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Is she still able to work?  Just because she's a little person doesn't mean she can hold a job necessarily?
Look at people on the other shows who have homes and jobs.  
 

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