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2 hours ago, lovinbob said:

It was really hard to hear Dr. Tolin probe Wilma about her children in front of them. She was atrocious. And her hatefulness was also strategic--she was hoping if she was mean enough they would leave her and her hoard alone. The idea that the house was in any way salvageable was a joke. 

Nora's chipmunk voice did not mask her illness any more than her thousands of containers did. To a lesser degree, my mom does the same thing as Nora—rather than deal with difficult issues, she just throws up her hands and runs away. So frustrating!

I was shocked when Dr. Tolin said, "Your children must be such a disappointment to you," while they were all there to hear the answer, plus her wish that she had never had children and didn't care if they went away and never came back.  It's one thing to suspect your mother doesn't love you, but to have it spoken aloud like that must have been devastating.  The kids had probably always told themselves that she was just a crusty person who didn't know how to express her feelings.  Seeing a grown man covered in tattoos break down and cry was terrible. 

2 hours ago, BooksRule said:

On the other hand, although I wanted to smack Nora around a little (she was either a nice little old lady or a furious tiny shrew--there was no in between), she had the cleanest hoard I've ever seen.

Yep. When the show first started she was what I thought a hoarder was,  someone who had collected a house overflowing with stuff.  The filth, roaches, heaps of adult diapers, puffy yogurt,  meat on the floor, black mold, white mold and termites, all came as a surprise. 

Still, squeaky voice little Nora with her tidy hoard was  just as scary as Wilma when the organizers tried to pry a few items from her tiny, raccoon hands.  

All the family members, therapists and organizers in that episode needed to just back slowly away and never come back.  Wilma and Nora wont even notice they're gone.

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I think Dr. Tolin did that deliberately, I think he wanted the children to realize that Wilma only loved herself, and that the children should move on with their lives.  

I don't feel sorry for hoarders.   I feel sorry for the children, even if they're now adults, who have a relative that is an emotional vampire who will ruin their lives if they don't cut them off.   I feel sorry for the animals that are in that hoard.    I feel sorry for the neighbors who have to live next to houses that stink, and are full of vermin who love to visit neighboring houses.    I also feel sorry for the people that are landlords to the ones who are renting, and destroyed someone else's property.  

However, I have zero sympathy for the enablers that do nothing to rescue the children, and animals.    The number of parents who do nothing to help the kids, or worse the parent leaves the kids behind with a hoarder. 

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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On 12/1/2019 at 12:09 PM, JudyObscure said:

Still, squeaky voice little Nora with her tidy hoard was  just as scary as Wilma when the organizers tried to pry a few items from her tiny, raccoon hands.  

Omg....tiny raccoon hands..🤣🤣🤣!

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This weekend, two things happened.  First I learned that a friend died in that person's hoard.  

The next day I talked to a long time friend and she had visited someone she has known for several years.  That person is in the 'you can't use this door because you can't get through' and the step here and then turn sideways and step there.  She was shocked and somewhat horrified and has only seen a couple of episodes of Horders. 

There is so much danger in this lifestyle and affluence makes the situation worse. 

The only positive is we both are becoming more careful in what we buy and how we keep house.  That doesn't help the people we know and for one it's too late.

Thanks for listening

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On 12/1/2019 at 3:09 PM, JudyObscure said:

I was shocked when Dr. Tolin said, "Your children must be such a disappointment to you," while they were all there to hear the answer, plus her wish that she had never had children and didn't care if they went away and never came back.  It's one thing to suspect your mother doesn't love you, but to have it spoken aloud like that must have been devastating.  The kids had probably always told themselves that she was just a crusty person who didn't know how to express her feelings.  Seeing a grown man covered in tattoos break down and cry was terrible. 

I guarantee that was far from the first time they heard her say it. Source: had an abusive mom who regretted having kids, heard that kind of stuff from her starting when I was preschool age.

On 12/2/2019 at 5:45 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think Dr. Tolin did that deliberately, I think he wanted the children to realize that Wilma only loved herself, and that the children should move on with their lives.  

100% agreed.

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Sunday Hoarders!  Right now it's Vicki who has just had a classic hoarder temper tantrum saying she's  "Not going to listen to anymore of this donate crap!"  Hah!  I never really bought into the fake, for camera only, generosity we see in these people.  They don't want other people to have stuff -- they want to have stuff.  That's why all the things they've  ever bought for gifts are still in their house.

Speaking of gifts.  I just dread the new bunch of stuff my son is going to get from his relatives, the ones who don't live here and realize his room is only ten by ten and really doesn't need any more exercise bikes, fans, home made paintings,  sporting equipment, shoes,coats more coats, other clothing,  and random electrical gadgets like the unopened battery operated plantar facsitis  massager  from Christmas past that just fell on my head while I was trying to straighten out his closet.

They mean, well bless their hearts.  I don't know what to get him either.

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On 12/3/2019 at 7:42 PM, enoughcats said:

This weekend, two things happened.  First I learned that a friend died in that person's hoard.  

The next day I talked to a long time friend and she had visited someone she has known for several years.  That person is in the 'you can't use this door because you can't get through' and the step here and then turn sideways and step there.

I'm so sorry about your friend who died, and about the other person who's living in a hoard. So disturbing.

Recently I stopped by a friend's place, for the first time in a few months. OMG it's getting close to hoarded. In her case it's because her health has been declining and she just doesn't have the physical and mental stamina to manage all her stuff. (She's always been more into "stuff" than most people I know, but has had the energy to keep on top of it. With her decline in health and strength, IMO the stuff is no longer under control and is getting really stacked up everywhere. There's now an actual trail of clear floor space through the house - with stuff stacked on the floors everywhere else. EEK!)

I've offered to help her with a particular part of it, huge boxes of documents sitting out in the living room, related to a volunteer project she's completed, and she seems happy to accept my help. I hope we can get it done after Christmas. 

16 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Sunday Hoarders!  Right now it's Vicki who has just had a classic hoarder temper tantrum saying she's  "Not going to listen to anymore of this donate crap!"  Hah!  I never really bought into the fake, for camera only, generosity we see in these people.  They don't want other people to have stuff -- they want to have stuff.  That's why all the things they've  ever bought for gifts are still in their house.

Thanks for the tip! I've just tuned to A&E to watch for awhile. I've caught a cold and I'm feeling like garbage right now. Not sure if the show will be in tune with my mood - or if I just wont' be up to dealing with it. We'll see!

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3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Thanks for the tip! I've just tuned to A&E to watch for awhile. I've caught a cold and I'm feeling like garbage right now. Not sure if the show will be in tune with my mood - or if I just wont' be up to dealing with it. We'll see!

I have a cold too, and instead of doing errands or cleaning my messy (but not hoarded-up) house, I just settled in on the couch with my coughing and slight wheezing to watch 'Hoarders'. May both our colds pass quickly. 

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I had never been in a hoard either.  A few years ago, a friend contacted me and said her neighbor had moved away and left his cat. 
we went in there to catch her so I could give her a home. 
It looked like the homes on this show. Stuff piled to the ceiling. The smell. The bathroom that was inoperable and filled with garbage. The poop and garbage everywhere. I am afraid of fire....the whole place was one big falling-apart fire trap.  
My kitty Betty Lou now has a home with me, an OCD cleaner.  
It’s one of those things....you see it on tv, but the reality is SO much worse. 

Edited by Meowwww · Reason: More
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According to Matt Paxton, (the extreme cleaner), and other sources, 1 in 25 households are hoards in this country.      If you think back, there are probably a lot of hoarders you've crossed paths with over the years.   

A&E is having a few of the original episodes on, and the hoarders are just as disgusting on reruns, as on the original showings.   Debra & Patty were just on, and both are hideous people.    Debra gets her entire home cleaned out, and repainted, and her only comment is she doesn't like the white they used.     I bet since this was filmed at least five years ago, that both homes are back to disgusting piles of rot and vermin.     Patty uses the excuse that her ex-husband divorced her years ago, and she's still hoarding his stuff too?     

Then they have Shanna & Lynda, and I skipped that.   Shanna and her pile of pee bottles, and feces everywhere is too much to watch again.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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On 5/13/2019 at 3:53 AM, Zipqltonal said:

New around here but I have been watching this show for years as a secret obsession horror show. 

I have noticed a theme in the later episodes and especially in the latest season of them all blaming depression, loss of something, someone taking away something as reason they hoard. They all seem to have the reason prepared canned response. 

 While most of them hoarded long before and it just escalated or exploded out of every closet, bin, cabinet in house and they couldn’t hide it anymore. 

I unfortunately have intimate dealings with several hoarders and have had to do at least a 2 dozen clean outs over the last 20 years. Several of which were after a sudden death, and everyone wanted to act shocked to discover that he/she was hiding 30 tons of crap in their house. Even tho they hadn’t let anyone in the house in years. 

I seen several comments about hoarding being a disease and wondering if medications or lobotomies would work. They do still perform ECT in extreme mental disorder on a case by case basis no idea if they ever tried it to correct hoarding.  

I think if they got to the true root cause of someone’s hoarding and it was more chemical imbalance based medications could result in a 180 on the behavior.

In my personal experience and I am not a professional doctor in any capacity. I just seem to be a hoarder magnet as the friend/distant family member who is OCD neat freak won’t stop till place is emptied cleaned organized, who gets roped into helping with the hoard. Most hoarders are selfish, needy, narricistic, controlling, temper tantrum, manipulative people with deep personality disorders. Who look for someone, something or an event to blame for their issue if they are ever confronted about their hoard. Others I see an event that triggered it and then they become overwhelmed and spend all their time organizing, shifting, moving the hoard while buying more to corral it. And for everything they manage to put away and organize 5 more things take their place. 

Sorry for the long post. 

I keep waiting for this situation to happen not that I think it would be aired but it would make headlines. The hoarding anti social couple would not have been surprising to have rat eaten dead bodies in there.  

I honestly hope these extreme cases cause more people to intervene in hoarders in their own life before they escalate to anything close to these levels. So many people never say a word or enable hoarding. 

I also know at least 2 hoarders.  For one, the hoarding is the tip of her mentally ill iceberg.  These people surely need shrinks & meds!! I finally had to cut ties with the crazy because she couldn’t acknowledge she was in desperate need of help.  

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52 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

I finally had to cut ties with the crazy because she couldn’t acknowledge she was in desperate need of help.  

That's probably for the best.  As an obsessively clean, borderline minimalist myself, one who can't tolerate clutter of any kind (all my Christmas decorations come down on 12-26 and I immediately do a "spring cleaning" because the whole Christmas season has made me feel so overwhelmed,)  I don't think we are the  ideal people to help.  I think if I tried to spend much time inside a big hoard the temptation to drop a match might be too great.

Still, I try to be sympathetic to the hoarders.  We see them as selfish, lazy people with terrible tempers, but  those bad traits don't usually show up until organizers come in and start removing the very things that make them feel calm and safe.

When the show first started the therapists were treating with OCD meds but since then they've admitted they don't help much.  The electrical shock treatments I've heard of have been most effective with people who were stuck on something like an obsession with a certain rock star or repetitive activity, again, probably not too helpful with hoarding.

I'm not sure I buy into the hoarding triggers they blame on the show too much either. I've lost both parents and a brother. I came home once and found my mother had burned my  doll collection (okay I was 15, she thought I was over them).  I had fewer clothes than anyone else in my high school.  All events that have triggered hoarding  behavior in some of our hoarders.  

Since the show started one town started cracking down on their hoarders and then had to stop because some of the hoarders had killed themselves.  I think, at this point, psychiatry has not quite come up with answers for them.  It's so frustrating to watch but I think the times they just make a safe path and leave are probably the best they can do.

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4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Still, I try to be sympathetic to the hoarders.  We see them as selfish, lazy people with terrible tempers, but  those bad traits don't usually show up until organizers come in and start removing the very things that make them feel calm and safe.

. . .

Since the show started one town started cracking down on their hoarders and then had to stop because some of the hoarders had killed themselves.  I think, at this point, psychiatry has not quite come up with answers for them.  It's so frustrating to watch but I think the times they just make a safe path and leave are probably the best they can do.

I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I've tuned in to some Hoarders episodes lately (and some of the other hoarding show too), and it's so easy to be angry at the hoarders' behavior. I try to remember that their thinking is disordered, which is how they got their homes into such colossal messes in the first place.

You really nailed it with the comment that they are losing the things that make them feel calm and safe. They have dealt with their "stuff" in ways that work for them emotionally even if they create unsafe living conditions. 

I've had some experience with addiction and addicts in my life, and one phrase I've learned that's been useful is "it's the addiction/disease talking." (In the case of hoarders, the disease talking.)

That thought comes in handy when the hoarders are talking about their hoards and reacting during the cleanup and therapy scenes. I mean, so often they just aren't making logical sense, or seem out of touch with reality. And that's really hard to take when the hoarder is a parent who's subjecting their child or children to literally unsafe and unhealthy living conditions. Or someone who claims to love their pets but houses them in a home that is literally covered in layers of the pets' excrement and puddles of urine. Oy. 

Edited by Jeeves
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1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I've tuned in to some Hoarders episodes lately (and some of the other hoarding show too), and it's so easy to be angry at the hoarders' behavior. I try to remember that their thinking is disordered, which is how they got their homes into such colossal messes in the first place.

You really nailed it with the comment that they are losing the things that make them feel calm and safe. They have dealt with their "stuff" in ways that work for them emotionally even if they create unsafe living conditions. 

I've had some experience with addiction and addicts in my life, and one phrase I've learned that's been useful is "it's the addiction/disease talking." (In the case of hoarders, the disease talking.)

That thought comes in handy when the hoarders are talking about their hoards and reacting during the cleanup and therapy scenes. I mean, so often they just aren't making logical sense, or seem out of touch with reality. And that's really hard to take when the hoarder is a parent who's subjecting their child or children to literally unsafe and unhealthy living conditions. Or someone who claims to love their pets but houses them in a home that is literally covered in layers of the pets' excrement and puddles of urine. Oy. 

There's hoarding stuff and being clean about and it there's the people that should be arrested for animal and child abuse who are insane. More than just hoarders and that is the one thing I hate about this show. The mental hospital should be called as soon as they find a sick, injured, neglected or dead animal or a child that has been affected. These people need serious help , it's not just that they can't let go of things. Actual hoarders should be insulted. No one hoards dog shit. If you are any of these people or if you are hoarding your own pee, please get to a doctor. I don't want to be your neighbor. 

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MISRACH:  they like to save their pee because none of them have plumbing that works, because they won't allow anybody in to do repair work. It's so sickening, but true true true. I know a hoarder, trust me on this one. (but thank God she has't gotten to the pee pee problem yet, she has actually let a plumber in to do work before).

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OMG, ya'll. I don't want to put all the deets out here, but I figure my Hoarders discussions peeps will understand. I've arrived in a city far from home, a road trip to a place I grew up but haven't visited for many years. I came to visit a step-relation who has been ill and is now back home. I just got here last night, and will go see her today. I've just learned from a member of her family that she's a hoarder. He used the word "borderline," and it's not Stage 5 or whatever the worst is. But still. The details he shared could have come out of these shows, including not letting him throw away a baggie with holes in it when he was trying to help her clean up a few years ago. Oy!

I'm glad I've been warned, and I'm glad that I paid attention to these shows and even read a couple of books about hoarding. I feel a tiny bit prepared for this now. I'd thought, oh good we can visit and maybe I can help her sort out her house. I think she does need things arranged so she has an easier time doing things because of her new physical limitations. But now I know that as to doing anything about her house, I'm entering a minefield, and I'm prepare to tiptoe through it instead of just marching in. Wish me well!

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16 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I'd thought, oh good we can visit and maybe I can help her sort out her house. I think she does need things arranged so she has an easier time doing things because of her new physical limitations. But now I know that as to doing anything about her house, I'm entering a minefield, and I'm prepare to tiptoe through it instead of just marching in. Wish me well!

I do wish you well, but must share my experience with a brother who was similar in outlook as far as "his stuff."  As his physical situation deteriorated (he was falling all the time), hubby and I went in to suggest and implement some (what we thought were) minor changes to provide space for his walker.  Nope.  He wouldn't have it. 

As a professional paper-pusher (administrative assistant), I also tried to show him how much easier it would be if he dealt with things like junk mail or doctor reports using a "one and done" method.  I told him if he was going to shred something from the day's mail, he should just shred it and he'd never have to deal with it again.  If he was going to file away a doctor's report, he should do it as soon as he got home from the doctor.  Nope.  He would throw junk mail on the floor in front of the shredder so he could do it all at one time (some of the stuff on the floor was six months old).  And there was a different stack on the floor of all the doctor reports he had accumulated for who knows how long.

One of his "poor me, I'm getting senile" complaints was that he would start to do something and then have to get up to go to the bathroom and forget to go back and finish what he was doing before the interruption.  I made him 10 copies of something I use EVERY DAY . . . a weekly "to-do" list, broken down by the day of the week.  I told him that if I have something I need to do, I write it on the day of the week I plan to do it, and then if I get distracted I can go back and see what I needed to be doing.  Nope.  When he died (alone in his house and undiscovered for four days), all ten copies were buried on the stack of crap on his desk.

All of that to say this.  Be optimistic, but realistic.  Don't frustrate yourself . . . if the person balks at the beginning, they'll probably continue to balk.  

Again, I wish you well.

 

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Good luck Jeeves!  I'll be right here waiting for a report.  If you're not back in a few days we'll come after you!

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OMG, @AZChristian and @JudyObscure, I'm just back at my hotel after a day over there at her house. In some ways it was horrible but we visited and concentrated on a few things and that went very well. I sat down here to look at these forums and almost got teary when I saw your nice supportive posts. 

At the moment I've detached from the idea of doing anything to tidy up her house which is hthe only reason I'm not stark raving screaming insane right now.

We're concentrating on dealing with some issues regarding her pets, who were alone a lot during her absence from home in hospital, rehab, etc. That's where my focus is. There are a few things I'm going to do, at her request, to make it easier for her to do some things around the house. In the process I hope to deep clean at least one bathroom. 

I can't believe she let her house get in that cluttered and dirty (UNDERSTATEMENT!) condition but I am absolutely not going to lecture, plead, etc. I'm just there to help her do whatever she wants help with. At this time the place isn't stuffed to the gills and she can safely walk around. We both watch junk reality tv shows, including My 600 Pound Life. I have not. asked her about the hoarding shows. Not going there.

Thanks again for your support. It means a lot.

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I just read in a magazine that there is going to be a new show on called "Legacy List with Max Paxton". It doesn't come on when I search on my tv and like I've said before, I have a hard time finding show titles on this website ever since the last update. So I don't see it here either. Does anyone know anything about this new show? Was supposed to begin in January and deals with clutter that is to be passed down as a "legacy".

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4 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

I just read in a magazine that there is going to be a new show on called "Legacy List with Max Paxton". It doesn't come on when I search on my tv and like I've said before, I have a hard time finding show titles on this website ever since the last update. So I don't see it here either. Does anyone know anything about this new show? Was supposed to begin in January and deals with clutter that is to be passed down as a "legacy".

I found this information - it's a public television show: https://www.aptonline.org/catalog/LEGACY-LIST-WITH-MATT-PAXTON 

Thanks for the heads-up. Here's an article about the show: https://www.nextavenue.org/legacy-list-downsizing/

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That last short season with 2 hour episodes just wasn't as good without Matt.      Though I think he did show up for one episode.  That show sounds good.   Matt's book on hoarding, and his history with clean ups is fascinating also.     I couldn't find his show listed on my PBS channel, but since their schedule looks like it hasn't been updated since the Civil War, I'm not surprised it wasn't listed.   I'm just hoping a show like this won't reinforce the hoarders' conviction that their junk piles are all valuable. 

One problem about cleaning up after a real collector is that many items that used to be valuable collections, now aren't.    I remember a few of the hoarders where they did have auction companies come in, and they did have some items to sell, but the items never sold for much.    The last hoarders episode with Sandra, the woman with the mansion (Julian Price House) she lost to foreclosure didn't even clear $20,000 as I recall.   

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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OMG I just happened across Linda & Kerry's episode (S9E4).  OMG.  I didn't really watch Kerry's except the beginning and the end, but Linda...  the crazy train not only went off th tracks there but exploded.  She's the lady in Vermont (or perhaps Washington state) who inherited a 180 acre farm that is used by her and her two cult members to prepare for the end times?  If you haven't seen this, check it out. 

 

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11 hours ago, SuzySmith said:

Linda...  the crazy train not only went off th tracks there but exploded.  

One of the most entertaining episodes of all time.  It doesn't get much better than Linda explaining why she was saving zippers cut from old pants.  Something about how they might be needed after the Rapture. I guess the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse wear theirs out a lot.  I try to forget the  handyman who went to the house for some lovin' and let the barn burn down.

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9 hours ago, msrachelj said:

it looks like my lousy PBS channel is carrying it

As is mine, at 9:30 Sunday mornings.  

Thank you for searching the links out, there is no way I would have known about this without your finds.

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18 hours ago, msrachelj said:

Great😡 it looks like my lousy PBS channel is carrying it

I meant IS NOT carrying it.  Sorry, I need to proofread!

9 hours ago, enoughcats said:

As is mine, at 9:30 Sunday mornings.  

Thank you for searching the links out, there is no way I would have known about this without your finds.

I meant to write “ is NOT”. That’s why my PBS station sucks😡

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4 hours ago, msrachelj said:

That’s why my PBS station sucks😡

That happened to me twice in the past five years.  I call the channel and talk to the guy who does the programming. (In our area, he may be a part timer but I always do get a return call.)  I ask if a specific series is scheduled and explain why I want to see it.  Both times the shows weren't scheduled, but the next opportunity they were.  

He said that he enjoyed getting positive calls and not complaints.  Mine were positive because I talked about all the other folks locally who might enjoy those shows and how those shows were like some old time shows, only different.

With Paxton's show, pitch it to the crowd that love Antiques Roadshow.  'nuf said.   

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1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

That happened to me twice in the past five years.  I call the channel and talk to the guy who does the programming. (In our area, he may be a part timer but I always do get a return call.)  I ask if a specific series is scheduled and explain why I want to see it.  Both times the shows weren't scheduled, but the next opportunity they were.  

He said that he enjoyed getting positive calls and not complaints.  Mine were positive because I talked about all the other folks locally who might enjoy those shows and how those shows were like some old time shows, only different.

With Paxton's show, pitch it to the crowd that love Antiques Roadshow.  'nuf said.   

I have DIRECTV and all it says for what channel PBS is is PBSNET.  I don’t think it’s a specific channel

does anyone know what app for a specific PBS station would carry this ?I tried looking and I can’t find anything I would watch it on my phone on an app if I could

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1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

does anyone know what app for a specific PBS station

I went to your link and  then went to the TV listings on the right, gave them my zipcode, and then went to my provider.  I could also get there by hitting the "Broadcast over the air" option to see what an antenna could pick up.  
(We have Directv, but it's through/associated with our Uverse,but fairly often (rain storms) we'll go to antenna for better (unpixilated) reception on network and PBS shows. 

We have the indoor flat antennas that we bought from Amazon on all our TVs, even though all have their own Directv, etc.s    Hope this helps.

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thank you guys so much, I found Matt's show on my PBS channel in Atlanta, 6 in the morning, but I have a DVR, thank God...I love him so, he is a true saint.  And Jeeves, you are a saint too...so sorry aout your experience. 

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7 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

thank you guys so much, I found Matt's show on my PBS channel in Atlanta, 6 in the morning, but I have a DVR, thank God...I love him so, he is a true saint.  And Jeeves, you are a saint too...so sorry aout your experience. 

Does your pbs channel have an app? I can’t find this show. 

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3 hours ago, msrachelj said:

I can’t find this show. 

Could you share your zipcode with us?  Maybe we could find it?

Edited by enoughcats

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