Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER

Recommended Posts

52 minutes ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Is she really a horrible person though? We got to see the worst day of her life where from her perspective, everything she worked for was being stolen and trashed by strangers for no reason. That doesn't mean that she is normally that rude towards people. Yet another reason why this should not have been filmed.

But Sandra has been doing this behavior since the early 2000's, when she refinanced (again), and paid nothing to the bank.     And that hoard had been building for many years, because you can see how dusty, and grungy everything looked in the house.    She had been fighting the foreclosure and eviction for years, and was in court constantly for years, and the two men had owned that house for at least a year.    She had been evicted quite a while before the show filming, and the men agreed that auction personnel could take what would sell.   I suspect Sandra has been that way for a long time, before the law suit over her business, and was just showing more of herself to the world.      

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

But Sandra has been doing this behavior since the early 2000's, when she refinanced (again), and paid nothing to the bank.     And that hoard had been building for many years, because you can see how dusty, and grungy everything looked in the house.    She had been fighting the foreclosure and eviction for years, and was in court constantly for years, and the two men had owned that house for at least a year.    She had been evicted quite a while before the show filming, and the men agreed that auction personnel could take what would sell.   I suspect Sandra has been that way for a long time, before the law suit over her business, and was just showing more of herself to the world.      

Meh, personally I don't think it makes her a terrible person if she didn't pay back money to a bank...the banks certainly stole enough from us in the 2000s and never paid it back LOL. The couple chose to go into it knowing that hassle and legal proceedings would be involved as they are in most foreclosure and evictions, and that was the price they paid for getting such a deal on the house.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/9/2019 at 4:57 PM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Meh, personally I don't think it makes her a terrible person if she didn't pay back money to a bank...the banks certainly stole enough from us in the 2000s and never paid it back LOL.

The trouble is, its like people stealing from Walmart and saying, "They can afford it." It's never the CEOs of the company that bear the loss, it's the customers who pay a little more for each item or higher finance charges  to the bank.  I was a bank teller for years and if I came up short it came out of my minimum wage pay.  I lost a hundred dollars that way one day. I knew where I had messed up, it was a woman who wanted her check cashed and $100 put in checking and I had put the hundred in checking, but cashed the whole check,too.  I went to her house after work asking for it back and she refused saying, "That bank makes enough money." 

Marathon today!  Starting with one of my favorites Arline the woman in  Hawaii with a notebook fetish. Her husband with scoliosis has to sleep in the car because there is no room in the house.

Now it's Lloyd with one of those terrifying Man-hoards that takes up several acres of land.  At least women usually stop at the seams of their house.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

The trouble is, its like people stealing from Walmart and saying, "They can afford it." It's never the CEOs of the company that bear the loss, it's the customers who pay a little more for each item or higher finance charges  to the bank.  I was a bank teller for years and if I came up short it came out of my minimum wage pay.  I lost a hundred dollars that way one day. I knew where I had messed up, it was a woman who wanted her check cashed and $100 put in checking and I had put the hundred in checking, but cashed the whole check,too.  I went to her house after work asking for it back and she refused saying, "That bank makes enough money." 

EXACTLY.  I never understood the mindset that it's OK because it's some faceless corporation who can suck it up and deal, because they steal from us, etc etc etc.  When in the end, it comes out of our collective pockets.  Not the CEO.  If it's bad enough, it's the lower-level employees who will suffer for it in the form of downsizing, etc.  The system is broken, but if we went by that mindset, it would be 1000 times worse.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, funky-rat said:

EXACTLY.  I never understood the mindset that it's OK because it's some faceless corporation who can suck it up and deal, because they steal from us, etc etc etc.  When in the end, it comes out of our collective pockets.  Not the CEO.  If it's bad enough, it's the lower-level employees who will suffer for it in the form of downsizing, etc.  The system is broken, but if we went by that mindset, it would be 1000 times worse.

The CEO will NEVER lose a dime!  His yacht will still sail and his bonus will be enough to finance an entire school for decades. Trust. 

A $100. Hickey will be passed to the consumer and also double dipped as a tax loss.  The game is rigged and I don't know what the solution is.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

The trouble is, its like people stealing from Walmart and saying, "They can afford it." It's never the CEOs of the company that bear the loss, it's the customers who pay a little more for each item or higher finance charges  to the bank.  I was a bank teller for years and if I came up short it came out of my minimum wage pay.  I lost a hundred dollars that way one day. I knew where I had messed up, it was a woman who wanted her check cashed and $100 put in checking and I had put the hundred in checking, but cashed the whole check,too.  I went to her house after work asking for it back and she refused saying, "That bank makes enough money." 

Not paying back a loan isn't the same as stealing. In many cases the bank actually prefers if people don't pay back loans on time because then they can get more money out of them later in interest and fees.

Share this post


Link to post
42 minutes ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Not paying back a loan isn't the same as stealing. In many cases the bank actually prefers if people don't pay back loans on time because then they can get more money out of them later in interest and fees.

But that assumes that the person does in fact pay back the loan. IIRC, the situation that started this discussion was a property where the hoarder flatly refused to make the mortgage payments. And full disclosure here, I work for an extremely large bank; spent about 2.5 years in the part of the bank that deals with customers defaulting on their mortgages. When people take out a mortgage, the property is the collateral on that mortgage. So when people refuse to make their mortgage payments for long periods of time, they should not be surprised that the bank forecloses on the property and tries to recoup the money they lent. I don’t see anything inherently wrong in doing so. Most banks will try to work with customers who are going through temporary financial problems, but many people just no longer have the income to make the payments. So what is the bank supposed to do, just write off the loan as a bad investment? They have a legal obligation in many cases to try to recover the loan amount, typically by foreclosing and then repairing structural problems, then selling the property to recoup what they can. Recovering that money is what enables them to keep loaning money to other people who want to buy a house, expand their business, etc. I sympathize with people whose circumstances change and they lose their house. But it’s not the bank’s fault that someone loses their job, etc. With a hoarder house, if the bank forecloses, they will either have to sell the house as is and probably take a loss, depending on the market, or spend the money to rehab the house and hope they break even. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

But that assumes that the person does in fact pay back the loan. IIRC, the situation that started this discussion was a property where the hoarder flatly refused to make the mortgage payments. And full disclosure here, I work for an extremely large bank; spent about 2.5 years in the part of the bank that deals with customers defaulting on their mortgages. When people take out a mortgage, the property is the collateral on that mortgage. So when people refuse to make their mortgage payments for long periods of time, they should not be surprised that the bank forecloses on the property and tries to recoup the money they lent. I don’t see anything inherently wrong in doing so. Most banks will try to work with customers who are going through temporary financial problems, but many people just no longer have the income to make the payments. So what is the bank supposed to do, just write off the loan as a bad investment? They have a legal obligation in many cases to try to recover the loan amount, typically by foreclosing and then repairing structural problems, then selling the property to recoup what they can. Recovering that money is what enables them to keep loaning money to other people who want to buy a house, expand their business, etc. I sympathize with people whose circumstances change and they lose their house. But it’s not the bank’s fault that someone loses their job, etc. With a hoarder house, if the bank forecloses, they will either have to sell the house as is and probably take a loss, depending on the market, or spend the money to rehab the house and hope they break even. 

I am aware of all of that. I am not an idiot. So as you can see, the bank had a plan in place from the beginning to get their money back should the loan not be repaid. Not repaying a loan is not the same as shoplifting from Walmart or stealing $100 from a bank teller as someone above stated. If it was the same, it would be illegal. Not only is it legal but the behavior of the banks, especially in the 2000s when Sandra's refinancing happened, clearly indicates that they are fine with making loans to people with questionable ability to repay them. She was far from the only person who got a subprime loan during that time and the banks chose over and over again to make risky investments of that kind.

Share this post


Link to post
On 7/7/2019 at 11:12 PM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

She was far from the only person who got a subprime loan during that time and the banks chose over and over again to make risky investments of that kind.

Yes, many banks chose to make risky investments at that time, although what most people don't realize is that there was a push from the federal level to loosen up lending requirements for mortgages, so that people with low incomes/less than stellar credit could more easily qualify for mortgages. With the current restrictions in place on mortgages, it's much more difficult for people with low incomes and lower credit scores to get mortgages. I'm personally unsure that making it harder for people with lower credit to get mortgages is the best answer in the long run, as those people still need housing and so are often forced to rent properties where they essentially are only enriching their landlords, rather than building any equity. But the topic of affordable housing is a bit tangential to the show under discussion here, other than just that it seems like some of the hoarders are going to face the necessity of finding a different housing solution because they've damaged the property or hoarding has taken over their lives to the point that they can no longer pay for their housing. 

My original point was that I don't feel sorry for someone, subprime mortgage or not, who has a property and then proceeds to devalue it by hoarding. If I owned a property and rented it out to someone who turned out to be a hoarder, and that person was hoarding at the level on the show, I'd probably give the hoarder a deadline to get the stuff out of the property or face eviction. With many of the properties shown, the interiors of the house have been damaged (fire hazards, rodents out of control, etc.,) and often the hoarding has spilled over to the exterior of the property. Most leases have clauses in them allowing eviction if someone causes significant damage to the property. Similarly, if I'm a bank holding a mortgage on a hoarder property and the hoarder quits paying the mortgage, I see no reason to make an exception to foreclosing on the property and salvaging what is left of the investment. I do feel sorry for some of the hoarders; in particular, there was one woman who grew up more or less wealthy but whose mental condition had deteriorated badly to the point where it seemed she couldn't comprehend that she needed to choose what possessions to keep rather than lose everything because she could no longer afford the property she was in. But for many of these people, it's hard to feel any sympathy for them because they seem to be extremely unpleasant people. And there is part of me that feels with many hoarders, they've already had time to deal with their hoarding. It's not like somebody has a normally organized house and wakes up one day, determined to become a hoarder and fill the house with junk in 24 hours. I could understand it to some extent if the person lived alone, but FFS, some of these episodes show hoarders who have spouses living in the same environment. Even if the hoarder has some mental illness, why did the spouse go along with it until it hits the level that outside agencies and so forth have to intervene? Is it just inertia on the part of the non-hoarder spouse, or are they too afraid of how the hoarder spouse will react to any efforts to stop the hoarding and get rid of the junk?

Edited by BookWoman56
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

Yes, many banks chose to make risky investments at that time, although what most people don't realize is that there was a push from the federal level to loosen up lending requirements for mortgages, so that people with low incomes/less than stellar credit could more easily qualify for mortgages. With the current restrictions in place on mortgages, it's much more difficult for people with low incomes and lower credit scores to get mortgages. I'm personally unsure that making it harder for people with lower credit to get mortgages is the best answer in the long run, as those people still need housing and so are often forced to rent properties where they essentially are only enriching their landlords, rather than building any equity. But the topic of affordable housing is a bit tangential to the show under discussion here, other than just that it seems like some of the hoarders are going to face the necessity of finding a different housing solution because they've damaged the property or hoarding has taken over their lives to the point that they can no longer pay for their housing. 

I feel like this is off-topic so I spoiler tagged it because there is no off topic thread:

Spoiler

Unfortunately there is a symbiosis between the government and banks and there especially was at that time. Most of the people making financial policy came from the world of big banks and were beholden to them. They encouraged each other to keep these bad investments possible. Frontline "The Warning" is a good documentary on this and they have a few other documentaries on the financial crisis as well.

My husband and I could afford property but we choose to rent -- we don't see it as enriching landlords rather than building equity. It saves us money to not have to pay for maintenance, luxuries which every house has like a backyard or basement, and higher utilities. It also saves us a ton of time to not have to worry about upkeep, repairs, upgrades, damages, "curb appeal," etc., and time=money. The only maintenance we ever have to do is maybe 2-3 hours total of cleaning per week. We can invest that extra time and money into other investments, and learning new skills that will increase our earning potential. We have a ton of savings which we would not have with a mortgage.

Most importantly we also have a lot more freedom. If we needed to move for a job we could do it with a few weeks' notice. If an area had declining property values or increasing crime we wouldn't have to worry about losing any assets and could just move out whenever we felt like it. If the next Hurricane Sandy came along and we lost everything, we could easily replace everything and not even have to worry about the insurance check (see Frontline "The Business of Disaster" for more information on that). This is SO underrated with all the societal and environmental changes that are expected to come in the next few decades. Flexibility is key.

I think the idea of property always being a good investment is something of a falsehood and renting and owning are about equal. So many people are stuck in properties that they don't want, can barely afford to keep up their properties, or are bankrupted by unexpected home repairs.

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

My original point was that I don't feel sorry for someone, subprime mortgage or not, who has a property and then proceeds to devalue it by hoarding. If I owned a property and rented it out to someone who turned out to be a hoarder, and that person was hoarding at the level on the show, I'd probably give the hoarder a deadline to get the stuff out of the property or face eviction. With many of the properties shown, the interiors of the house have been damaged (fire hazards, rodents out of control, etc.,) and often the hoarding has spilled over to the exterior of the property. Most leases have clauses in them allowing eviction if someone causes significant damage to the property. Similarly, if I'm a bank holding a mortgage on a hoarder property and the hoarder quits paying the mortgage, I see no reason to make an exception to foreclosing on the property and salvaging what is left of the investment. I do feel sorry for some of the hoarders; in particular, there was one woman who grew up more or less wealthy but whose mental condition had deteriorated badly to the point where it seemed she couldn't comprehend that she needed to choose what possessions to keep rather than lose everything because she could no longer afford the property she was in. But for many of these people, it's hard to feel any sympathy for them because they seem to be extremely unpleasant people. And there is part of me that feels with many hoarders, they've already had time to deal with their hoarding. It's not like somebody has a normally organized house and wakes up one day, determined to become a hoarder and fill the house with junk in 24 hours. I could understand it to some extent if the person lived alone, but FFS, some of these episodes show hoarders who have spouses living in the same environment. Even if the hoarder has some mental illness, why did the spouse go along with it until it hits the level that outside agencies and so forth have to intervene? Is it just inertia on the part of the non-hoarder spouse, or are they too afraid of how the hoarder spouse will react to any efforts to stop the hoarding and get rid of the junk?

Also getting back on topic, I think that renting is also a good option for hoarders. My MIL is a hoarder and trashed her house, but now that she's in an apartment she has to be at least reasonably clean or else she will get kicked out and lose her security deposit. Of course it's not neat/clean by my standards but it's much better than it was. My building does quarterly inspections so they can see if any problems are arising.

I agree with you on the hoarders often being unpleasant to be around, especially if they are confronted on their hoarding. It doesn't mean that they're necessarily bad or immoral people overall, but they are difficult, as we can see. I don't feel sorry for them either. They made their own choices. I have/had a lot of hoarder relatives and usually the people around them suffer way more than they do as a result of the hoarding.

I think oftentimes there is a folie a deux going on with hoarders and enablers. Eventually even the non-hoarder often develops hoarder tendencies or clutter blindness because it becomes normalized. I think this happened with my in-laws and my grandparents. After my grandpa passed away and my grandma moved into a retirement community, she actually stopped hoarding and her apartment was normal for the next 10+ years until she passed away. My grandparents were both hoarders when they lived together and I think their behaviors encouraged each other.

Also, my husband isn't a hoarder but he grew up with two hoarders and never learned how to be clean or organized. He didn't have much sentimental attachment to stuff but was always the kind of person who would lose everything and not know where anything was, and buy a bunch of duplicates rather than look for the original. It was only after he moved in with me, a neat-freak, that he actually got some perspective. He especially got perspective when he had to clean out my in-laws' abandoned house. He realized how much clutter blindness he had, and it was only after seeing how much stuff was in each pile and how many dumpsters and bags it filled, that he realized how bad it was. He has made huge improvements in neatness and organization since we have been living together and he is now a minimalist.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Interesting insights, BuyMoreandSave, any you have chosen a heck of a name.

1 hour ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

since we have been living together and he is now a minimalist.

Wow.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
24 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Interesting insights, BuyMoreandSave, any you have chosen a heck of a name.

Wow.

I joined this site for the QVC forum (I don't buy from QVC but it is good studying/working background noise for some reason and also good to snark on). "Buy More and Save" is something they have where if you buy multiples of an item, you save money on each item. I thought it was a funny concept because obviously if you're buying more of anything, you're doing the opposite of saving, so I chose that name to make fun of them. It's also interesting to note that I have heard it's very common in hoarder cleanouts to find piles of unopened boxes from home shopping networks. A lot of their biggest customers are hoarders.

I think the experience of having to clean out his parents' house was the largest precipitant of him becoming minimalist because after that I noticed he started becoming a lot more mindful about his possessions. Also, we move every 2-3 years, and it's much easier if you have less stuff and can carry and load everything into the U-Haul yourself.

Edited by BuyMoreAndSave
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

So yesterday, I parked next to a well dressed lady at the gas station.  She was driving a pretty new & nice Honda SUV.  When I looked, the whole thing was hoarded.  The entire back was completely stuffed to the roof, as was the passenger seat and dash. There was about a 2 foot square spot on the driver seat.

It was clearly NOT moving stuff, just mass quantities of random shit packed in.  I wondered what her family, friends or co-workers must think?  Also, lawd!!! What does her house look like?

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, zillabreeze said:

So yesterday, I parked next to a well dressed lady at the gas station.  She was driving a pretty new & nice Honda SUV.  When I looked, the whole thing was hoarded.  The entire back was completely stuffed to the roof, as was the passenger seat and dash. There was about a 2 foot square spot on the driver seat.

It was clearly NOT moving stuff, just mass quantities of random shit packed in.  I wondered what her family, friends or co-workers must think?  Also, lawd!!! What does her house look like?

I saw a similar mobile hoard being driven by a disheveled looking guy a few weeks ago. He also hit a trash can and drove halfway down the street pushing it with the bumper of the car before realizing it was there...I laughed.

  • Like 2
  • Surprise 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

...I laughed

I felt kind of sorry for the lady.  She was nicely dressed and made up and trying to control her hoard.   

Her hoarding is probably a mental illness or the result of issues that I hope never to experience.

Cleaning up a family members hoard is awful.  Been there, done that.  Not funny at all.

  • Like 3
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, zillabreeze said:

I felt kind of sorry for the lady.  She was nicely dressed and made up and trying to control her hoard.   

Her hoarding is probably a mental illness or the result of issues that I hope never to experience.

Cleaning up a family members hoard is awful.  Been there, done that.  Not funny at all.

It was the trash can, not the hoard, that I laughed at. After having to live with my hoarder MIL for two years -- due to her being disabled because of preventable health problems she didn't get taken care of -- as well as having to be punished due to the mental illness induced poor life decisions of every member of my immediate biological family for the past 27+ years...sorry but I have compassion fatigue (check out the family thread in "Everything Else" section for more information if you are interested).

Edited by BuyMoreAndSave
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
34 minutes ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

It was the trash can, not the hoard, that I laughed at. After having to live with my hoarder MIL for two years -- due to her being disabled because of preventable health problems she didn't get taken care of -- as well as having to be punished due to the mental illness induced poor life decisions of every member of my immediate biological family for the past 27+ years...sorry but I have compassion fatigue (check out the family thread in "Everything Else" section for more information if you are intereste

"Compassion Fatigue". May I borrow that,???

Oh. No worries. Sorry. I did be over sensitive. I do get it!

My drunkass sister up and died.  Leaving a giant hoard for us to sort through.  Weeks of sorting through that shit in a hot and dusty house. 

 You can't just take a shovel, because there's jewelry, guns and important papers all intertwined...

Edited by zillabreeze
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, zillabreeze said:

"Compassion Fatigue". May I borrow that,???

Oh. No worries. Sorry. I did be over sensitive. I do get it!

My drunkass sister up and died.  Leaving a giant hoard for us to sort through.  Weeks of sorting through that shit in a hot and dusty house. 

 You can't just take a shovel, because there's jewelry, guns and important papers all intertwined...

I, too, love the phrase "Compassion Fatigue."  

I had to walk away from my hoarder brother several months ago, and I'm actually seeing peace and joy in my life again.  Hubby and I have had several conversations about how we will handle the mess when the bro dies.  Since we've got that figured out, it's just a matter of waiting until someone notifies us. 

I'm listed as his next of kin on his medical records, so a doctor's office or hospital will occasionally call me if they can't get the info they need from him, or if he refuses to return their calls because he doesn't want to actually participate in his own care.  Last call was from a physical therapist's office.  Another doctor had referred him for PT because Brother Hypochondriac always complains about falling.  (We refer to it as tripping over the crap in his house.)  Bro doesn't want to actually DO anything for himself.  Had the doctor prescribed MORE medications (he takes 20+ per day already), or - even better - suggest surgery, he'd have loved it.  But to actually WORK on his problems by exercising?  No, we can't have that.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

I was watching a couple of old episodes on A&E while I did some housework (the episodes are over, but the housework continues!) and laughed at this remark from Matt: 'One of my biggest challenges is Grandma. She's copping an attitude.' 

  • Like 2
  • Laugh 3

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, BooksRule said:

I was watching a couple of old episodes on A&E while I did some housework (the episodes are over, but the housework continues!) and laughed at this remark from Matt: 'One of my biggest challenges is Grandma. She's copping an attitude.' 

Matt needs to quote Judge Judy:  "There's only one attitude allowed here, and it's MINE."

  • Like 3
  • Laugh 3

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

But to actually WORK on his problems by exercising?  No, we can't have that.

I feel ya'.  My sister had years to turn her shit around, didn't even try.  Gawd help you if you called her out on her nonsense.

I see your future in my crystal ball.  All I can say is head to Costco and buy triple the trash bags, dust masks, rubber gloves and bleach than you think you'll need.  

Watching my 80+ year old parents shoveling through that shit was heartbreaking. Two years later and they are still shell shocked.

Her house was in a wildly desirable area.  Should have sold for over $300k.  We had to let it go for half that.  Dog urine and neglect had soaked through to subfloors.  

4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

(We refer to it as tripping over the crap in his house.

My sister had a two story house.  She was always tripping up or down the staircase.  Once carrying a brand new laptop that was destroyed.  BUT it was the slippery Pergo steps fault!  Had nothing to do with the daily fifth of vodka!!!!  

I have ZERO sympathy for the Hoarder whiners.  Their families should quit the molly coddling and save themselves.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Oh yeah, Hoarders that have cars always hoard their cars as well, every hoarder I know has their car packed to the ceiling, they can't even see behind them when driving. It is disgusting and dangerous. I have a friend who got a new car, and kept her old hoarded car parked down the street from her, and goes to visit her hoard that is inside her car.  I am dead serious! She is paying for insurance on two cars just so she can keep her HOARD CAR.  God! 

  • Like 3
  • Surprise 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Oh yeah, Hoarders that have cars always hoard their cars as well, every hoarder I know has their car packed to the ceiling,

We used to have a hoarder house in my neighborhood.  There was a carport in back with a fairly decent Mercedes sedan that was stuffed full.  WTF?  

  • Like 1
  • Surprise 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Oh yeah, Hoarders that have cars always hoard their cars as well, every hoarder I know has their car packed to the ceiling, they can't even see behind them when driving. It is disgusting and dangerous. I have a friend who got a new car, and kept her old hoarded car parked down the street from her, and goes to visit her hoard that is inside her car.  I am dead serious! She is paying for insurance on two cars just so she can keep her HOARD CAR.  God! 

My husband (back before he was neat) and MIL trashed two cars (they switched the titles on the cars between each other multiple times, and he had to look after her car for months at a time when she was in Florida or sick/disabled, so it was caused by both of them). They weren't packed with trash to the ceiling but both of them were absolutely covered in disgusting mystery stains, to the point where it looked like a murder had taken place. There were literally coffee splatters covering the ceiling. There were crumbs under the seats (not only crumbs but for example I once found an entire salad's worth of dessicated years-old crispy noodles scattered under the seats), trash everywhere, completely random items that had nothing to do with the car ending up in there, etc. I once saw MIL leave a cup of coffee with milk in it in the cupholder of her car that she left with us and it stayed there for two weeks until I made my husband get rid of it. It was nasty. I begged my husband for 7 years to do something about it, and sometimes progress was made, but it never got to the point of not feeling like you were driving around in a mobile dumpster.

Thankfully one of the cars broke and was scrapped, and the other one needs $5K in repairs, so last month we got a Prius. It's so nice and refreshing to be able to go into a clean car! My husband has actually become somewhat fanatical about keeping the car clean -- he takes it to the car wash every couple of weeks, cleans any dirt from the inside weekly, promptly removes any trash in there, and doesn't leave random items like papers or electrical cords in there anymore. There is hardly anything in the trunk so we can actually transport laundry and stuff in there. Turns out my husband doesn't need 90% of the crap he was keeping in the trunks of the other cars just in case. MIL is still forcing us to keep the second car "in case she ever drives again" even though she has not driven since 2016, still has balance and mobility issues, and has no plans to practice driving in the foreseeable future. As I said, it needs 5K in repairs, so it would be cheaper just to scrap it and buy a decent used car if the day ever comes when she wants to drive.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

it needs 5K in repairs, so it would be cheaper just to scrap it and buy a decent used car if the day ever comes when she wants to drive.

Don't scrap it.  Those 5k in repairs are going to cause a breakdown.  Let it, with her at the wheel.  

Not a hoarded car, but my FIL's dementia (one iteration) lead to his forgetting how to get the car in reverse.  This was after he took out a tree at the local donut shop (he was a retired police man).  He proclaimed it an unlucky car (3 brake jobs 10,000 miles) He never got around to buying the junker he had hidden cash to buy. 

We put a note on top of the engine and it said that the family had chosen, for the safety of the community, to disable the car, and keep it disabled.  (We had seen him drive through a red light on a drive that he knew well, having lived there for seven years.)

Keep that car that she knows.  That way she can't logically blame you.

Edited by enoughcats
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Don't scrap it.  Those 5k in repairs are going to cause a breakdown.  Let it, with her at the wheel.  

Not a hoarded car, but my FIL's dementia (one iteration) lead to his forgetting how to get the car in reverse.  This was after he took out a tree at the local donut shop (he was a retired police man).  He proclaimed it an unlucky car (3 brake jobs 10,000 miles) and sold it to us for half of what CarMax offered him.  He never got around to buying the junker he had hidden cash to buy. 

Keep that car that she knows.  That way she can't logically blame you.

She already manufactures enough crises without us manufacturing one for her. She will most likely never drive it and hopefully in a year or two my husband can convince her to get rid of it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

A similar story from Wales, with a dead body and mother daughter tag team hoarders

Comments on the story indicate, to me, that a whole lot of people think that "just a little help" would do it, that the government can make people change, etc.  Only a few comments fit with what we think we've learned.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

A family member worried, but didn't know the right questions to ask authorities for an elder check.  And the hospital only notified one family member, not the one who might have made a difference.

Spoiler

and was partly eaten by her dog, who also died.\

In Detroit, two sisters.  One went to the hospital with a stroke, the other went home and died in her hoard.  

Edited by enoughcats
  • Sad 4

Share this post


Link to post

I caught a few minutes of a couple of A&E's episodes this morning, and at least two of the hoarders said (while the camera panned around rooms packed feet high with stuff), 'there's some clutter' or 'it's a little cluttered'.  I just pictured Inigo Montoya saying 'You keep using that word.  I don't think it means what you think it means'.

And this gem: 'I'm not a hoarder. I just have a lot of stuff.'

Finally, I had to laugh at the situation of the hoarder (the one who said she just had a lot of stuff) whose new boyfriend (a neat freak) commented that the first time he visited her place he 'had never washed more silverware before in his life'.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

It’s hard for me to imagine a neat freak and a hoarder staying in a relationship for very long. Sooner or later, the neat freak is going to get tired of the piles and piles of stuff, and/or the hoarder is going to get tired of the neat freak trying to straighten up and throw away junk that the hoarder considers valuable. I’d like to see a follow up 6 months or a year later on that couple, to see if the neat freak has ended the relationship. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/4/2019 at 7:00 PM, BookWoman56 said:

It’s hard for me to imagine a neat freak and a hoarder staying in a relationship for very long. Sooner or later, the neat freak is going to get tired of the piles and piles of stuff, and/or the hoarder is going to get tired of the neat freak trying to straighten up and throw away junk that the hoarder considers valuable. I’d like to see a follow up 6 months or a year later on that couple, to see if the neat freak has ended the relationship. 

I think he bailed before the episode was over.  If he had stayed, though, I would definitely have wanted to see a follow-up. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×