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John Diggle: Brother In Arms


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Apparently ComicBook.com think John Diggle should be killed off, because apparently flipity flop Arsenal is such a better hero & Buckle Canary is here also!

http://comicbook.com/2014/12/26/why-arrow-should-kill-or-retire-diggle/

 

That article has clickbait written all over it, and it's made me so angry that I can't even formulate a coherent response. 

 

I mean...

 

 

And as a character with his own complex back story and nuances, Diggle deserves to be in the driver’s seat, or none at all.

 

Just...get out of here with that nonsensical logic. All interesting characters have to be spun off into their own show or not exist at all! Be careful - your story gets too complicated and you need to make room for the Laurel Lances and Roy Harpers of the world. I like Roy, but no thanks. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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I would happily, happily fridge Laurel and Roy if it meant that we got to keep Diggle even if it was for one more episode. That article was pure nonsense and so clearly written by a comic fanboy who wants the show to be more like the comics regarding Team Arrow, screw all of Diggle's contributions to Oliver's personal development, screw Diggle saving Oliver 10 times over, screw Diggle willing to die for Oliver even though he has a daughter and a soon to be wife waiting for him at home. Nope, Diggle doesn't matter. SMH

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I disagree with the article but many people here had similar comments just not to this extreme.

After David's convention appearance

and the talk about at least 3 legit heroes by the end if the season. Many eliminated Diggle and Felicity saying they're not in Roy/Ray/Laurel's league because Diggle and Felicity don't wear costumes. It didn't matter that Diggle had more fighting experience then Roy or Laurel, or that Felicity actually did more heroic things in S2.

Even though people here never called for Dig's death or having him written out of the show the concensus was basically the same as the article. Diggle and Felicity aren't legit heroes, and therefore less important because they don't play dress up and have comic alter egos.

This article just took it to the extreme saying having Arsenal and

Black Canary plus The Atom

make Diggle irrelevant and therefore expendable.

I don't agree with it and hate the idea that putting on a mask somehow makes them more important than Felicity, Diggle or even Lyla because they don't wear masks. It also makes me wonder why they even bothered having Cisco, Caitlin, Roy and Felicity help the Flash as a team in stopping the bombs in 308...obviously they're not heroes, Flash and Arrow should have just done everything.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I actually find Diggle and Felicity to be heroes in their own right. They don't wear masks, but they're heroes and they've been heroes since season 1 which is why, at least I, eliminated them. Even if some people don't find them to be heroes though, the show needs characters who don't wear masks to ground the masked heroes. Oliver has Diggle and Felicity and Laurel will have Dinah and Quentin. 

 

But like I said, all of John's accomplishments were without a mask. He is integral to the story because he's an integral part of Oliver's life. I thoroughly believe Oliver would be lost without him. 

 

The point of John Diggle isn't for him to be a masked hero, but a confidante and a brother to Oliver. He's the steady rock, one who doesn't shake so easily. This is why Diggle shouldn't die. 

 

If anything, the other heroes on the show are more expendable because they're just a mask, whereas Diggle actually means something to Oliver's journey. He does something others don't. He guides Oliver. Roy never did that, nor did Laurel, nor did Ray. There's more to being a hero than wearing a mask.

Edited by wonderwall
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I actually find Diggle and Felicity to be heroes in their own right. They don't wear masks, but they're heroes and they've been heroes since season 1 which is why, at least I, eliminated them. Even if some people don't find them to be heroes though, the show needs characters who don't wear masks to ground the masked heroes. Oliver has Diggle and Felicity and Laurel will have Dinah and Quentin. 

 

But like I said, all of John's accomplishments were without a mask. He is integral to the story because he's an integral part of Oliver's life. I thoroughly believe Oliver would be lost without him. 

 

Diggle and Felicity are 10x the heroes that Roy is and Laurel hopes to be. I actually hate that people dismiss D&F because they don't wear goofy outfits (though Digg should get one for real, seriously.) They have shown heart, courage, and have believed in Oliver since the very beginning. 

 

I was also annoyed at Diggle telling Oliver to cut Roy loose. That was a huge OOC moment to me, and I still bring it up when discussing how I've been disappointed in this season. 

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As much as I disagree with it and don't like it I find it odd that people are getting annoyed at the article when many people on this board basically said the same thing back in the spoiler speculation thread.

After David's convention appearance

and the talk about at least 3 legit heroes by the end if the season. You guys (again general) automatically eliminated Diggle and Felicity saying they're not in Roy/Ray/Laurel's league because Diggle and Felicity don't wear costumes and are labeled as support. It didn't matter that Diggle had more fighting experience then Roy or Laurel, or that Felicity actually did more heroic things in S2.

 

Except

he said "superheroes," not "heroes." Why wouldn't we eliminate him as a possibility when he doesn't have an alter ego and three people who aren't costumed yet already do? So, it's not that he's less important, it's that he's not in the pool of possibilities - haven't the EPs outright said he doesn't get a costume (or at least not the kind we'd expect)?

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Diggle and Felicity are 10x the heroes that Roy is and Laurel hopes to be. I actually hate that people dismiss D&F because they don't wear goofy outfits (though Digg should get one for real, seriously.) They have shown heart, courage, and have believed in Oliver since the very beginning.

I agree but as many others claim thwy are support and not "legit heroes". Legit heroes wear costumes and it doesn't even matter of they have the skills, knowledge or experience that other, non costume wearing characters have shown.

I think this article tool it to the comicbook guy extreme but I've seen the same comments here.

he said "superheroes," not "heroes." Why wouldn't we eliminate him as a possibility when he doesn't have an alter ego and three people who aren't costumed yet already do? So, it's not that he's less important, it's that he's not in the pool of possibilities - haven't the EPs outright said he doesn't get a costume (or at least not the kind we'd expect)?

David Ramsey never said superheroes He said "at least 3 or more legit heroes". Go back and listen to the panel amswer starts at 59.20.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I think the reason we (we being general) dismissed Diggle and Felicity as part of the 3 new superheroes at the end of season is because the EPs always seem to dismiss them. We (again generalizing) know they are already heroes, but costumes and stunt doubles seem to be more important for those who are handing out code names. 

 

On thread topic, I really hope Diggle gets to step up while Oliver's gone. I get that there's going to be a ton of Buckle Canary, Roy, and Atom, but Digg is the go-to guy to step in during Oliver's absence. He's been sidelined a lot this year, and I'd like to see more focus on what he brings to Team Arrow.

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I agree but as many others claim thwy are support and not "legit heroes". Legit heroes wear costumes and it doesn't even matter of they have the skills, knowledge or experience that other, non costume wearing characters have shown.

I think this article tool it to the comicbook guy extreme but I've seen the same comments here.

David Ramsey never said superheroes He said "at least 3 or more legit heroes". Go back and listen to the panel amswer starts at 59.20.

 

I'll take your word for it - I read a transcript that misquoted him.

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People supllied their own wording,

David said legit heroes. People dismissed heroes and replaced it with superheroes, thereby eliminating Diggle and Felicity. Here's the video

I just think it's odd that people are annoyed by this writer when they've done the same thing, reducing Felicity and Diggle to less important to the story because they don't wear costumes.

Therefore Oliver

can retire and hand the city over to Roy, Ray and Laurel to protect because they wear costumes while Diggle/Felicity can't protect the city because they don't.

So again, I completely disagree with this guy but many people here made the same general arguments, they just didn't follow through to the extremes that he did.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Felicity and Diggle are legit heroes but they are part of Team Arrow.  They are IMO all one unit, so if there are ever other heroes being referred to as coming to Starling, I wouldn't count them because they are already counted. 

 

Dig and Felicity don't stop being capable if Oliver is not around, but I don't see them having individual motivation to go off on their own.  It's always been about enabling Oliver to make his mission happen.  No Oliver and I think they would rethink the best way they could continue to be heroes.

Edited by BkWurm1
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Dig and Felicity don't stop being capable if Oliver is not around, but I don't see them having individual motivation to go off on their own.  It's always been about enabling Oliver to make his mission happen.  No Oliver and I think they would rethink the best way they could continue to be heroes.

 

I disagree. Without Oliver, I think Diggle would be the first the step up and take over the mission.  His motivation would be what is has always been, saving the city.  This mission is as much Diggle's and Felicity's as Oliver's and I don't see either one of them walking away or rethinking being heroes because Oliver wasn't there.  

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I disagree. Without Oliver, I think Diggle would be the first the step up and take over the mission.  His motivation would be what is has always been, saving the city.  This mission is as much Diggle's and Felicity's as Oliver's and I don't see either one of them walking away or rethinking being heroes because Oliver wasn't there.  

You misread what I wrote.  I said without Oliver I thought they would rethink the best way they could continue to be heroes.  I have no doubt they would continue being heroes but if Oliver is not there, is Diggle going to go out and threaten to shoot an Arrow though a bad guy?  Is that really his style?  IF there was an open mission that needs attending ,then yes, Diggle would step in and take over in the field, but if he just has the general mission of continuing to work on cleaning up the city, would he choose to do it exactly like Oliver had been doing or would he do it differently?  Would he form a team? Use Argus resources?  They were doing it Oliver's way and I don't think they would feel like they have to do it just the same.

 

Same with Felicity.  If Diggle needs her, sure she would be there, but if Diggle does his heroing another way and  there was no Arrow and she chose not to sit back in the control center handling Ray and his tiny zoot suit, how would Felicity choose to make a difference?  Sure she could play watchtower for all the others in the field but maybe she would choose to do her own work on the computer and catch the bad guys another way.  

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I like the idea of an emblem in the chest area. I've always thought that cowls and masks limit vision and something bright and eye-catching in the chest area

 

(italics mine)

IA, and as another Bats callback, I believe the excuse given for comics!Batman having the yellow  oval around his chest insignia ( thanks to synching up with TV!Bats) was that the yellow acted as a target on a more armored area. So I can see Diggle using that as part or the whole reason for having a symbol with a green arrow insignia on his chest.

 

IA with TwistedandBored: if Dig was killed off, I would not be able to watch. The show got me, and others, to invest in this very cool man. To have him "leave" because of newcomers? (Even with Laurel being here from Day 1, her character's expansion is new, in my eyes.) That's taking my eyes somewhere else on the dial.

 

Don't jiggle the Diggle! He's good where he is.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Nukethefridge interview:

 

 

David Ramsey: The suit? It’s great. It’s awesome. Colton [Haynes] knows this and Katie Cassidy. When you put on those uniforms, you put on that leather, put on the mask, it’s like you kind of feel badass. So it’s awesome, but I like the idea that Diggle doesn’t wear that. I think that’s his greatness, the fact that Diggle’s like you and me. He’s awesome and he’s normal. He’s a guy who just joined the force. He just joined the military, man, wanted to help out. He did two or three tours, became a Special Forces guy. He’s like anybody else who just decided to be great. Everyone else, they’re great but Diggle’s greatness and his awesomeness is in his normalcy. I think if you take that away from him it becomes something else. I think some of the appeal that he has, you lose that.

I love how he supports that you can be a hero and not wear a suit, not just supports but actively campaigns for it.  You can be normal and decide to be great in your own life.  (That should be on a T-shirt.)

 

One of my biggest fears about the show is that they're going to forget that Diggle and Felicity are heroes too, so yay to David Ramsey for continuing to push for it.  They could let him do the salmon ladder -- if Oliver, Barry and even Ray get to do it, why not Diggle?

Edited by statsgirl
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I love DR. Every interview he gives, he just gets it. He gets all the characters and motivations and where things stand. I always feel better after reading his interviews. You just know he cares too. He's great.

 

And I'm one of those that doesn't mind Diggle not wearing a suit. I feel like he should have a better mask than a ski mask and he should definitely have some sort of code name over the comms (but then they all should, it's so dumb using their real names) but Diggle is already a hero and he doesn't need a leather outfit to validate that. 

 

I also kind of like the implications about him not needing to hide behind a mask because he knows who he is and what he wants to be.

Edited by Angel12d
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I think they gave Diggle a baby because they gave Oliver a kid, too, and this show loves nothing more than parallels. Unless we're also going to see Oliver interact with a child while he's in Hong Kong with Waller, which, hoo boy, I hope not.

 

Looking over the thread, I saw this and chuckled.   

 

I hope we get some great David/ Audrey Marie  ( Dig/ Lyla) scenes in the next couple of episodes. They are both soldiers and are both operatives. They get each other and the other's POV ( agreement optional.) It would be wonderful character-building in an organic way, laying foundation for future stuff, not only with them as a couple, but with ARGUS and Suicide Squad stuff.  I eventually came to love Audrey Marie Anderson's Kim on The Unit. I feel that she can handle some meaty stuff. I wish we'd get a smidge more because I'm selfish that way. 

 

Maybe if Diggle decides to shadow Thea, to see how closely Merlyn shadows her, Thea can have a good scene with him too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is my Diggle rant - Even though Diggle had a few good scenes in Episodes 310 through 312, for the most part he has been shamefully treated by the EPs.  We previously discussed the incongruity of Diggle having no costume while out in the field.  That has a slightly racist undertone.  The white heroes, Roy and Laurel (who's only been fighting a few days), get their own specially tailored and distinctive masked costumes right away.  Diggle, who's been fighting alongside Oliver the longest, wears a generic black outfit with balaclava that shouts unidentified Henchman #1.  Nowhere was this more apparent than at the TCAs.  (While we and DR can rationalize why Diggle doesn't or shouldn't wear a costume, it's never explained on the show.)

 

Now in the past three episodes, Diggle - the experienced ex-military guy - was irrationally sidelined for most of the physical fighting and relegated to working the comms at the Arrowcave, while the least experienced fighters on the team went out in the field.  The EPs might try to explain this away by saying 'well, Diggle is the tactician directing them from the foundry', but this explanation doesn't hold water.  When Oliver was out fighting as the Arrow, he still led the team over the comms.  Felicity's strengths best serve the team at the computers.  Diggle's strengths best serve the team out in the field.  In Oliver's absence, Diggle should've been out in the field, getting intel from Felicity and directing Roy & Laurel.  But I guess that didn't fit the EPs' agenda of spotlighting BC and Arsenal.  So like a servant, Diggle is reduced to the new heroes' sidekick in those scenes - the 'black driver' in truth (as opposed to his cover story with Oliver).

 

When a fan complained on tumblr about Diggle being sidelined recently, MG made some lame excuse about how "t’s a big cast and characters move into the foreground and into the background".  If you need to shuffle characters around, do so in a way that makes sense for those characters.  These characters are not interchangeable.  They're not checkers, they're chess pieces.  Each one has his or her own distinct abilities and characteristics.

 

It's just another example of the EPs writing to the plot (not characters) and then dumping the characters into the plot to further their agenda.  End of rant.

Edited by tv echo
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These characters are not interchangeable.  They're not checkers, they're chess pieces.  Each one has his or her own distinct abilities and characteristics.

 

Amen! ^This! Not just for Arrow and Diggle, but for all shows, really, or why care about what's going on, on the show you want us to watch?

I can't believe that there was no way to have Dig in the field in some way. Even if he wasn't mixing it up, that there wasn't a perch/fire escape he could sit on and keep an eye on things. Ollie did that for Felicity in Season 1.  When she ran into real trouble, he could go help. Not appreciably different from our war veteran and the newer vigilantes.

 

 

(While we and DR can rationalize why Diggle doesn't or shouldn't wear a costume, it's never explained on the show.)

 

Again, something that can be done, but it doesn't seem to be a priority. Clarifying a character's action/inaction should be a no-brainer. The show already shows and tells us, through Dig, that he doesn't like wearing Oliver's suit. It is physically uncomfortable for him. He also mentioned ( and was shown) to not like the bow and arrows; he prefers guns.

 

So, what is so hard about Dig mentioning that he feels more comfortable and quicker in regular clothes or ops gear?

 

edited for clarity.

Edited by Actionmage
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Aside from him not wearing a mask which is stupid on many levels (anyone could recognize him!) I've always mostly been okay with Diggle not wearing a hero costume because I like the idea that he doesn't necessarily need one. He's a hero in his own right whether he has a costume or not. He knows who he is and exactly why he's committed to the cause and he doesn't need to hide behind a load of leather. I always feel like Oliver is trying to hide part of himself behind his mask and I don't see that with Digg. He doesn't need to leather-up to get the job done, he just does it. I really like that.

 

Plus I do think we're reaching the point where there's too many costumes on this show and it makes them less special in a way. However, if getting a comic destiny like Green Lantern and wearing a suit is what gives Diggle more screen time and better use of his abilities (um hello, special ops soldier anyone?!) then I am all for it. I admit when I googled Green Lantern yesterday and the first thing that came up was an interview with DR, I got excited.

If he was to call himself John Stewart Diggle in his wedding vows in 317, I'd be delighted. He deserves it. 

Edited by Angel12d
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The whole Green Lantern core thing runs on I guess will power and anyone who's watched the show knows John Diggle has is in spades.  Is there anyone more secure and centered in who he is and what he believes than Diggle?  So from that view point, I'd like him to get this big comic book destiny, not so that he gets another comic book connection but because it would be cool for the John Stewart character to make it to live action....BUT  Arrow can't support an interstellar police officer with fantastical. powers.  They could really only go there if Diggle was getting written off and unless David Ramsey gets hired away to do the project of his dreams, I don't want him to go anywhere. 

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I don't want DR leaving Arrow anytime soon as he's one of the bright spots for me, but I'd love a little nod like Stewart being his middle name. It would be nice knowing his future isn't solely tied to Oliver, but I wouldn't need to actually see him become GL. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had been all over the John Stewart theory as well, particularly when he was wearing a green shirt during the brawl with Brick's thugs, but apparently it is not to be:

 

“Basically, John Diggle is now a character in the comics… John Diggle is John Diggle. We’re not being coy and saying John Diggle is someone else, i.e. John Stewart. DC has other plans for that character.”

 

The linked article then goes on to speculate that John Stewart will be the Green Lantern in the Justice League movies.

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John Diggle – experienced in field medical triage and martial arts has been sidelined to highlight lesser characters without a tenth of his training and experience simply because they were important in comicbook mythos. NOT because they actually had expertise, extraordinary skills, or serve functions on Team Arrow that were needed and not already covered. No, clearly Arrow needed more pretty white faces in pretty shiny suits with zero justification of their presence in a fight against real bad guys who would normally murder them in a seconds notice if the plot was credible.
*  *  *
Season 3 of Arrow has literally had to remove two of the most experienced characters on the show to allow two rookies to run amuck and play at heroism and learn as they go.

 

Remember that iconic moment when Oliver Queen first dons his mask?

 

It was iconic, because we saw Oliver EARN the right to be called a hero. We saw him stumble along the way. We were invested in this moment because he never strapped on a suit and that defined him as a hero while he earned the right and experience it requires later. He never donned anything until he earned it along the way.

 

But on this new Arrow, all credibility has been lost. This is now the, “Anyone can be a hero” hour. You don’t EARN a suit, you just get one. And then later you can actually train to be one.


THIS.  SO.  MUCH.  Someone should send that article link to Marc Guggenheim.
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  • 2 weeks later...

One huge appeal of Diggle is his representation of the real heroes we all should be noting daily (soldiers, cops, firemen).  Thus, I have never wanted a mask/cape or superhero garb for him.  However, I would love to see them give him some sort of jazzed up glasses/eyeye-piece to wear in the field.  Something with night-vision, com's links, and other cool features.  It would serve to obscure his identity a bit and give him a cool toy.  I also would love to see him have some sort of signature weapon...some Diggle Blaster..

 

Letting Diggle be Dig works for me.

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(edited)

One huge appeal of Diggle is his representation of the real heroes we all should be noting daily (soldiers, cops, firemen). Thus, I have never wanted a mask/cape or superhero garb for him. However, I would love to see them give him some sort of jazzed up glasses/eyeye-piece to wear in the field. Something with night-vision, com's links, and other cool features. It would serve to obscure his identity a bit and give him a cool toy. I also would love to see him have some sort of signature weapon...some Diggle Blaster..

Letting Diggle be Dig works for me.

Think your ideas are great. You're right he does represent everyday heroes, I don't really need diggle to be a costume hero. But I do think some practical ways to cover his identity would be an intelligent & practical idea. The goggles would be good way. Signature weapons are always cool.

I do hope that the writers next season find some balance in having plot lines for the costumed & non costumed heroes now that they have given us bc, arsenal & atom. I hope they don't decide to introduce more costumed heroes next season, besides the ones that they have already hinted. If moving fwd u need a costume to get a storyline, then i would want dig to get one. Frankly this season there hasn't been enough diggle.

Edited by kismet
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One huge appeal of Diggle is his representation of the real heroes we all should be noting daily (soldiers, cops, firemen).  Thus, I have never wanted a mask/cape or superhero garb for him.  However, I would love to see them give him some sort of jazzed up glasses/eyeye-piece to wear in the field.  Something with night-vision, com's links, and other cool features.  It would serve to obscure his identity a bit and give him a cool toy.  I also would love to see him have some sort of signature weapon...some Diggle Blaster..

 

Letting Diggle be Dig works for me.

 

Same. I think he needs a mask and a code name over the comms to protect his identity. But Diggle is already a hero and he doesn't need a costume to prove it.

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I have actually had a little fun trying to imagine up a cool Diggle the shotcaller eyewear and a Diggle Blaster.  He is Diggle and whatever he wears and carries needs to be very spiffy but not so overpowered it makes Oliver look weak.

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Comms Callsigns:

Oliver: Arrow or Green

Felicity: Techs ( homonym Tex, because I am a goober) and it "sounds" male or High Roller

Diggle: Sandbox or PapaBear

Harper: Arsenal or Red

Laurel (if present): Canary, BC or Charity

Thea (if present): Speedy or Cool Breeze*

 

*--cribbed from The Unit; the callsigns were cool and actually had a story behind it. Not unlike Alias' callsigns for the various spies in the field.  Thea's cool, as in level-headed, and travels like a breeze, unseen until she wants you to see. 

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  • 3 months later...
(edited)
Diggle already removed himself from the field..

 

He removed himself from the field in 301; then in 302 he's back on the team and in 303 he's in the Field.  Diggle was in the field several times between 302-310, including 303, 305, 308 and 310 but was sidelined at the most illogical time 311-313 for no real internal to show reason.  The only reason was to promote Laurel to Masked status.  Diggle was out in the field in 310 with Roy but then in 311 he's staying behind because well it's a Laurel Centric episode.  He's back in the field in 312 because that wasn't Laurel Centric.  He's then sidelined again in 313...oh look it's a Laurel Centric episode.

 

After the Laurel Centric episodes it's almost a pick and choose as to if Diggle is allowed in the field.  Apparently it's OK for Diggle to infiltrate the LoA in 315 and go out in the field in 316 but, then he can't be in the fight in 318 because they wanted masks only.  Of course he's supposed to be providing Sniper Duty in 318 just totally off screen.  In 321 he's out in the field on his own, as the only active field member of TA because Laurel is getting her ass handed to her by a street thug and in 322 and 323 he's in the field again.  

 

So yeah, it's beyond obvious that 311-313 Diggle was pretty much sidelined NOT because of In Show reasons but because they needed to get him and Oliver out of the way in order to put Laurel in the field.  This was most egregious in 311 where Laurel actually tells Diggle that's not how we're going to do this and insists on going out in the field while the more experienced team member runs Comms and in 313 when Oliver passes over Diggle in favor of the the wounded/drugged Laurel who just got her ass handed to her by The Count.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Diggle already removed himself from the field..

 

For, like, half of an episode, until Sara died. And he was out in the field with Roy fighting Brick until Laurel suited up and he—for whatever reason—decided he was more useful staying in the lair, even though he was the most experienced fighter out of all of them.

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Guggenheim even admitted on Tumblr that Diggle got the shrift mid-season so they could advance Laurel [and Thea too, apparently? Poor Thea didn't get the memo.]:

 

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/112341389864/hi-there-are-3-shows-i-currently-watch-arrow

 

He was being polite about how he phrased it [for once], but that answer tells me clearly it was external factors -- having to give Laurel a ~becoming a hero~ story meant Special Forces 3 tours veteran John Diggle got to stay behind and/or drive the van so that Buckles buckled it.

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Diggle was sidelined last season too, when Sara and Roy joined the team. Diggle was originally supposed to be Oliver's backup in the field and sage advice giver, but I think the writers have a hard time deciding what Diggle's place on the show is now that pretty much everyone is Oliver's backup.

This is part of the reason why I think Team Arrow works best with only three permanent members, and maybe a few others who only drop in occasionally. Otherwise Diggle, sometimes Felicity and even Oliver this season start to get sidelined.

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Now there's no Sara or Roy...and from the looks of it he's getting a mask. 

Him being in the field is great but it's not where I want to see him most. 

John and Oliver had a LOT more meaningful moments this season than they did in season 2... So I still don't get what you mean. The only place he's being marginalized is in the field. 

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(edited)

Now there's no Sara or Roy...and from the looks of it he's getting a mask. 

Him being in the field is great but it's not where I want to see him most.

There is Laurel and Thea as replacements.

Why post this but not tell us where you would like to see him most? You'd like to see him as the love interest but don't think it would go over well? ;)

Let me guess seriously. You want him in the lair being the one Oliver talks to and who can get through to him - the Alfred to his Batman. If he's the only one Oliver really listens to then Felicity can move to her rightful place as comedic relief otherwise she's just hanging out in front of a computer doing as she's told?

It's okay if this is what you would really like but why not just say so?

Edited by Sunshine
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John and Oliver had a LOT more meaningful moments this season than they did in season 2.

 

Define "a LOT". Because it may have been more..but not much more.

 

I want him to be the primary (not only) source of support for Oliver. Whatever that entails. On the field etc.

 

It's okay if this is what you would really like but why not just say so?

 

Because it's not. 

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I want him to be the primary (not only) source of support for Oliver. Whatever that entails. On the field etc.

I just don't see how that's realistic anymore, though. Diggle has a wife and kid now; his availability as Oliver's best friend and mentor is going to take a hit. I think that's one reason why we saw more of the Oliver-Roy partnership this season.
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Define "a LOT". Because it may have been more..but not much more.

I want him to be the primary (not only) source of support for Oliver. Whatever that entails. On the field etc.

Why can't both felicity and diggle be his primary support? There is no hierarchy there. They're all equal partners.

And what I meant by a lot more was that diggle and Oliver got scraps in season 2. But this season they got so many more moments:

-I don't want to die down here

-Diggle pushing Oliver to be happy in episode 1 and Oliver and diggle making amends by the end of the episode with a hug

-diggle and Oliver go to corto Maltese without felicity

-diggle tells Oliver he'd rather die then let him go face Ra's alone

-Diggle mourns Oliver in episode 10

-When Oliver comes back and everyone is on his ass Diggle is the one who gets through to Oliver

-episode 15 was basically a diggle and Oliver episode

-Oliver is Diggs best man in episode 17

-Oliver calling diggle his brother

-Diggle mourning Oliver again by taking his frustrations out on the baddies

-then there was the whole set up for the oliver/diggle tension for the last few episodes

-diggle confronting Oliver that he should've trusted them

-diggle telling Oliver he deserves to be happy

This was a good set up for great Oliver and diggle moments in season 4. And let's be real, these moments in season 3 were a lot more significant than their moments in season 2.

Sorry the formatting sucks. I'm on my phone

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(edited)

Is there any particular reason you want Digg to be Oliver's primary source of support? I only ask because what would Felicity be? A LI that doesn't have the ability to get through to him or support him?

That could get awkward. I reckon more balance should be established. They're both his "people". Since season 1 when their "trinity" was formed it's never been one or the other. It's what makes their relationships so appealing because they each have separate and integrated relationships.

Edited by Password
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Knowing these writers, I legit worry that using the word "support" for Diggle always end up meaning he gets less story than he should, because he doesn't get to be the protagonist in his own character development. The thing that works for me with Diggle, Oliver and Felicity is I can truly see the three of them as equals, so I'd rather they all support each other, instead of pigeonholeing the black dude into the Sage Advice Master who advises the clueless white guy in how to live his life. I want way, WAY more for Diggle.

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