Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
CuriousParker

Frasier

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Even sitcoms have storylines and arcs that we care about.

And can you imagine someone who's never seen Frasier tuning in and getting hooked, watching through to the second season where Niles is still married to Maris and has his unrequited crush on Daphne and the next DAY they watch the show and suddenly Daphne is living with Niles and they're all older and, except for Frasier still striking out with every woman he meets, it's all changed.  I'd feel pretty cheated - after I stopped feeling confused!

  • Like 3
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post

Okay, that makes me really mad.  LOL.  Frasier is such a good show and networks should not be doing it so dirty.

37 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

and, except for Frasier still striking out with every woman he meets, it's all changed. 

LOL!!!!!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Okay, that makes me really mad.  LOL.  Frasier is such a good show and networks should not be doing it so dirty.

LOL!!!!!

It's kind of sad to see a middle aged man thinking every woman he goes out with is going to be THE ONE and being disappointed every time.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

It's too hard for me to watch those episodes where Frasier gets his hopes dashed too much.  

- Can't Buy Me Love - the auction episode, with the beautiful model with the bratty daughter
- Four for the Seesaw - (the one with Megan Mullally) Frasier encourages Niles to just have a fun affair to get over his divorce - but he encourages Niles too much and in earshot of the women
- Frasier's Imaginary Friend - The one with Sela Ward, the supermodel zoologist.  His family doesn't believe in her so he takes a picture of her to prove that she's real and of course, she finds out.
- Three Dates and a Break up - Sherry ruins THREE of Frasier's dates.

These are very well crafted episodes.  I think the first episode is especially a classic.  But I never want to revisit them because I hate how Frasier never gets what he wants.

Going back to "Can't Buy me Love" for a sec.  I can't stand how the woman leaves the date and walks out on him.  What did Frasier do that was so bad exactly?  He's a psychologist and he took a child at her word.  He wanted to protect the child and help her.  And for that, the model walks out on him?  Please.

Three Dates and a Breakup - the sexy jazzy mood setting music that Frasier uses for all 3 dates is so funny.  I actually desperately wanted to find it but I think they said that one of their music writers just created it for the show and it was not released.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

- Frasier's Imaginary Friend - The one with Sela Ward, the supermodel zoologist.  His family doesn't believe in her so he takes a picture of her to prove that she's real and of course, she finds out.
 

While she's sleeping. That would have creeped me out too.

  • Like 3
  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

- Four for the Seesaw - (the one with Megan Mullally) Frasier encourages Niles to just have a fun affair to get over his divorce - but he encourages Niles too much and in earshot of the women

Heh, yeah, Frasier and Niles blew that one up all on their own. Two great women who were genuinely interested in them, and with whom they had some things in common...and Niles can't get over his weird back and forth with Maris. I could understand his reservations because of the fact they're separated at that time, because dating while in that kind of limbo could be awkward. But since she was seeing other people herself, well...

And Frasier was right about how it would've been good for them to just enjoy themselves for a weekend without analyzing everything to death...but he said it in the most "foot in mouth" sort of way ever. 

I do get a kick out of that one, though, because Megan Mullally plays Niles' date, and that has me imagining what it'd be like if Niles went on a date with Karen Walker :p. That would be a disaster of hilariously epic proportions :D. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

While she's sleeping. That would have creeped me out too.

I know that it's not right what he did.  I know that.  But, his family drove him crazy.  They were awful.  It was like being gaslit. I understand his desperation.  And he was only going to show his family - NOT sell it to the tabloids like she was afraid of.  Of course, I understand HER being upset too, because she didn't know all of this.

Just now, Annber03 said:

Heh, yeah, Frasier and Niles blew that one up all on their own. Two great women who were genuinely interested in them, and with whom they had some things in common...and Niles can't get over his weird back and forth with Maris. I could understand his reservations because of the fact they're separated at that time, because dating while in that kind of limbo could be awkward. But since she was seeing other people herself, well...

Niles was never interested in Megan Mullally.  Frasier just wanted to get laid and was pushing Niles in the process.  I agree that Frasier screwed that up himself, but dammit, I want Frasier to get what he wants sometimes!

He's been disappointed so many times in his life that when he actually does have a good relationship - Cassandra, Faye, that weird artist woman who howled at the moon - he takes it upon himself to screw it up because he can't be happy.  It's really sad.

1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

I do get a kick out of that one, though, because Megan Mullally plays Niles' date, and that has me imagining what it'd be like if Niles went on a date with Karen Walker :p. That would be a disaster of hilariously epic proportions :D. 

I'm sure that Maris and Karen Walker have a LOT in common.  The only difference is that Karen has amazing breasts 😉. And she's the golddigger whereas with Maris, Maris is the gold!

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

Heh, yeah, Frasier and Niles blew that one up all on their own. Two great women who were genuinely interested in them, and with whom they had some things in common...and Niles can't get over his weird back and forth with Maris. I could understand his reservations because of the fact they're separated at that time, because dating while in that kind of limbo could be awkward. But since she was seeing other people herself, well...

They were kitchen designers! They were perfect.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I know that it's not right what he did.  I know that.  But, his family drove him crazy.  They were awful.  It was like being gaslit. I understand his desperation.  And he was only going to show his family - NOT sell it to the tabloids like she was afraid of.  Of course, I understand HER being upset too, because she didn't know all of this.

I like the story in that episode about when Frasier was a kid and pretended he was corresponding with Leonard Bernstein. And Niles is going on about how they figured out it was a fake because "Bernstein" mentioned the wrong play in the letters and all that, and Martin says, "The sloppy kid handwriting was also a clue." XD. 

But yeah, I can see why his family would've been a bit worried/skeptical at first given he'd been in a dating slump, but he had also been known to date some gorgeous women with some really unusual/important jobs before, so... 

Quote

 

Niles was never interested in Megan Mullally.  Frasier just wanted to get laid and was pushing Niles in the process.  I agree that Frasier screwed that up himself, but dammit, I want Frasier to get what he wants sometimes!

He's been disappointed so many times in his life that when he actually does have a good relationship - Cassandra, Faye, that weird artist woman who howled at the moon - he takes it upon himself to screw it up because he can't be happy. It's really sad.

 

True, Frasier pushing so hard didn't help matters, no. 

They've even discussed that at points on the show, his constant need to sabotage his relationships because he can't be happy, and is afraid to be alone. He just has a really hard time turning off his brain and letting himself enjoy things. 

The thing with that artist, too, was that it was supposed to be a purely casual fling from the get-go, which made his reaction to that one even more frustrating. She wasn't looking for anything more serious, she just wanted to have fun. But again, he can't let himself just do that. 

Quote

I'm sure that Maris and Karen Walker have a LOT in common.  The only difference is that Karen has amazing breasts 😉. And she's the golddigger whereas with Maris, Maris is the gold!

Oh, god, now I'm imagining Karen and Maris chatting it up :D. They would totally have some weird frenemies sort of thing - she'd mock Maris' weight and unusual eating/drinking habits, and then they'd turn around and gossip about all the rich people in Seattle together. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

The thing with that artist, too, was that it was supposed to be a purely casual fling from the get-go, which made his reaction to that one even more frustrating. She wasn't looking for anything more serious, she just wanted to have fun. But again, he can't let himself just do that. 

Frasier acts like such a horndog all the time.  Look how he is with Regan, etc. He just wants a beautiful woman to have fun with.  He finds someone he's COMPLETELY attracted to that doesn't want strings and he agonizes and agonizes that they have nothing in common.  I don't even know if I could be friends with someone complaining about something like this.

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

But yeah, I can see why his family would've been a bit worried/skeptical at first given he'd been in a dating slump, but he had also been known to date some gorgeous women with some really unusual/important jobs before, so... 

You're reminding me of more storylines

Sam the lawyer - he screws this up at first, but when Sam's touched that he really wants to be with her, he has to confess to her he was just using her for her lifestyle.  What is wrong with him?  Why not try to actually like SAM and have a relationship with her?

Teri Hatcher (I love this episode) - he doesn't want to be with her because he can't stop trying to "fix" her.  Why couldn't they just relax and be with each other?  I know several therapists who have husbands.  They were attracted to some element of that person (even if it's damage or neurosis or whatever you want to call it), but they make it work!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
53 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Going back to "Can't Buy me Love" for a sec.  I can't stand how the woman leaves the date and walks out on him.  What did Frasier do that was so bad exactly?  He's a psychologist and he took a child at her word.  He wanted to protect the child and help her.  And for that, the model walks out on him?  Please.

I love this episode so much - especially the scene where the guys are waiting backstage to be auctioned off and the scene with Frasier talking on the phone, eating cookie dough and soundingn like a 12 yr old girl! But I totally agree with you here.  And honestly what was she thinking in the first place leaving her young daughter with someone who was practically a stranger,  I get that it was totally unlikely that anything would happen but even so.  No, just no.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

And honestly what was she thinking in the first place leaving her young daughter with someone who was practically a stranger,  I get that it was totally unlikely that anything would happen but even so.  No, just no.

Yessssssss!  It was such a bad idea that you start to believe what the daughter was saying about her!  Imagine being the daughter and being stuck with this random guy your mother's never even met before!!

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

20 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

I love this episode so much - especially the scene where the guys are waiting backstage to be auctioned off and the scene with Frasier talking on the phone, eating cookie dough and soundingn like a 12 yr old girl!

"No way! NO WAY!" :D.

And then of course Daphne's date with Bulldog. "Thank you, Pitbull! I had a lovely time!" 

  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post

Some of my favourite lines

Frasier: Oh, who are Tony and Whitesnake?
Christina: Our two dogs.

Frasier: I don't suppose there's any chance that during that party you got your shoulder tattooed?
Christina: [lowers her coat and turns round] Do you see anything there? 
Frasier: No. But then my eyes are tearing up.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post

What do guys think of Kate/Mercedes Ruehl?

Are there love interests of Frasier that you guys preferred or disliked?

Patricia Clarkson was very nice.  More nice than he deserved.

Another dating disaster that I can't bear --- when Frasier took a holiday with that athletic wear designer that I liked - Madeline?  And of course freaking Lilith is also in Bora Bora, too.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I liked that Kate was smart and had no problem putting Frasier in his place. But none of his love interests seemed destined to last more than a few episodes so it was hard to ever care. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What do guys think of Kate/Mercedes Ruehl?

I liked her and one of my favourite scenes in Frasier has to be her and Frasier stuck in that elevator with all the stuff belonging to the romance writer!  That said I thought  how they wrote her out with her being a little over the top about her cat and Frasier being allergic was pretty weak for such an awesome character.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
48 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What do guys think of Kate/Mercedes Ruehl?

Are there love interests of Frasier that you guys preferred or disliked?

Patricia Clarkson was very nice.  More nice than he deserved.

Another dating disaster that I can't bear --- when Frasier took a holiday with that athletic wear designer that I liked - Madeline?  And of course freaking Lilith is also in Bora Bora, too.

I think Mercedes Ruehl should literally be in everything! And I love Patricia Clarkson but I thought her character was too good for Frasier. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

20 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I liked that Kate was smart and had no problem putting Frasier in his place.

Same :D. Their combative back and forth was entertaining. And then the whole "bad boy/dirty girl" was hilarious in its sheer awkwardness. Though her being his boss would've posed some potential legal wrinkles at some point, I'd imagine. 

I did like Madeline, too. I could've seen her and Frasier making a good go of it had things not gone so horribly awry during their vacation. And then there was Faye...

Basically, Frasier works best with a woman who can hold her own against him and isn't afraid to pop his ego bubble from time to time. The aforementioned women were good at that, as was Lilith. Roz, too (I think the show was right to not put them together at the end, mind - I like that Roz's ending focused on her career success, instead of her winding up with someone, be it Frasier or some other guy. But they did have a good chemistry and I do like the idea of them together in and of itself). 

Ultimately, though, I feel like Lilith was the best fit for Frasier. And he clearly seemed to feel the same way - no matter how tense their interactions were whenever they'd meet up, his love and affection for her was still very much there (probably part of the reason they did fight so much - the people you love the most also tend to be the ones who drive you the most crazy :p). 

  • Like 6
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I thought Frasier and Lilith were perfect for each other too. Too bad she slept with Niles. 🙂 

That was one of the stories that I hated but laugh nevertheless when I watch the episode.  It's such a dilemma for me.

  • Like 6
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, SusannahM said:

I liked her and one of my favourite scenes in Frasier has to be her and Frasier stuck in that elevator with all the stuff belonging to the romance writer!  That said I thought  how they wrote her out with her being a little over the top about her cat and Frasier being allergic was pretty weak for such an awesome character.

I know, I just watched it.  Isn't that disappointing?

Frasier met his match in Kate.  She was outsmarting him.  She liked classical music and DJ'd or interned at a classical music station or something.  She knew a lot.  She won dozens of awards producing.

Then suddenly she's a cat lady that has zero in common with him.  She likes jogging, and the musical "Cats", but nothing that Frasier likes? Nothing wrong with cats or anything, but it really didn't ring true at all.

The show could be backwards when it came to gender and race sometimes, but Kate was a good character that felt even ahead of her time.  One thing that I don't love is that she's TOO dominant.  Once she gets on the show it almost feels like her show rather than Frasier's.  She's a strong actor and a strong character.  So she's not that easy on rewatches for me.  She feels a little more than a side character - even more than Lilith.

I think that Lilith - much like Frasier - is just a genius sitcom character.  The writers wrote their interactions so well together and the actors acted them amazingly too.  Whoever dreamed them up was just so smart.

I actually worked with a woman like Lilith once.   When Lilith says something like "I'm calculating my emotional reaction to this news" or something, that's so funny and it makes me think so much of my colleague.

I think this is the quote I'm thinking of:

Quote

Lilith: We're supposed to be having breakfast, but you're not here. And as I don't know if you're tardy, or have been in a terrible accident, I'm unable to commit to an appropriate emotional response. Please call me. Thank you.

Quote

Frasier: Well, if you love him, I am happy for you.
Lilith: I do. Brian has been a dutiful suitor for some time, and I'm convinced to within an acceptable margin of error that he loves me.

 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

That was one of the stories that I hated but laugh nevertheless when I watch the episode.  It's such a dilemma for me.

I love that episode - like you said, so many funny moments in it, and I just love the poor confused guy who keeps bringing stuff to the hotel room :D. 

But yes, in terms of the effect Niles and Lilith sleeping together has on their respective relationships with Frasier, and the general weirdness that comes with sleeping with your sibling's ex, I totally get your reaction, too. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

It's so hard to believe that Niles would do that.  I wish they would have let us see the actual party where they were both so drunk and miserable that would lead to that.

I believe that Lilith would do it.  She could be very bad.  And her ego was very important to her.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Quote

I think that Lilith - much like Frasier - is just a genius sitcom character.

Played by a genius actor. I'll never get over her not being cast as Morticia in the original Addams Family movies.

  • Like 6
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's so hard to believe that Niles would do that.  I wish they would have let us see the actual party where they were both so drunk and miserable that would lead to that.

Yeah, if it were just some random woman he'd hooked up with, that would make sense - even sober, some of his choices in women were questionable at best, so I can see him being so drunk and miserable that he's not too choosy in who he hooks up with. Hell, in some ways, it isn't even that unusual that he would've slept with Lilith in and of itself - for as antagonistic as their history was with each other, she's not too dissimilar in some ways from the kinds of women he dated (and married). So I could see him being drawn to her on that level, too, especially given how lonely he was.

But her connection to Frasier would've, and should've, been enough for his ethical and moral red flags to kick in, for sure. And maybe they did, but if so, it must've been a very fleeting concern at best. There was an episode that mentioned that he gets nosebleeds whenever he breaches his ethics, so now I wonder if he ever got one at any point that night as a result. As if things wouldn't have been awkward enough...

  • Like 3
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, I agree with you.  I could see that he could find Lilith attractive, especially that night.  Frasier admitted that he found Maris attractive "in a minimalist way" too, but that could have been just to appease Niles.  

But it is not who he is, his ethics.  When it comes to Daphne he would throw all of that out of the window.  But when it comes to Frasier or Lilith?  I really don't know how I could see that happening.  And he had struggles when he did unethical things to go after Daphne too.  It wasn't always easy.

I guess if Niles was looking after Lilth and really wanted to see she'd make it to the hotel okay, I could kind of see it happening at the door.  Because as you said, it just takes a fleeting moment.  And Lilith was so desperate for validation that night.  It just seems so selfish of her.  There are so many other men in Seattle she could have went after!

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I liked Kate. She was strong and didn't back down which Frasier needed. I love her introductory episode. With all her awards. Sticking Frasier on the night shift when he wouldn't given into her ideas and I love when he and Roz decide to take the show down by talking about sex. I did like her ideas especially when she explained at the end like wanting him to take deeper look at adultery how it affects families, kids, etc. She really was the most competant manager the station ever had. I wish she and Frasier dated longer. I loved elevator scene too. I also really like the actress who played her. I liked a lot of his girlfriends like Cassandra and Faye. But Lilith was the only one who was perfect for him.

I agree with not liking Niles and Lilith sleeping together because of their connection to Frasier. Yeah, it was a one time thing but it was still wrong. I can't see Niles doing that to Frasier and I really don't see Lilith doing either. I could see Niles and Lilith getting drunk together that might even be funny to watch. Especially given how much they hated each other. 

Edited by andromeda331
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Niles had a sparkle with the women he supposedly didn't like - Lilith, Roz.  I think it's because deep down he just wants approval.  He refused to talk to Lilith for years after his wedding because Lilith laughed at Maris's vows. But when she apologized he completely melted and hugged her and thanked her profusely.  As Frasier said he is just not used to receiving that kind of validation.

Roz was a fantastic sparring partner for Niles.  Niles didn't care to have Roz's attention and Roz certainly didn't need Niles's when she had so many men in her life.  Niles couldn't stand the thought of another person's germs touching him but Roz would make out with anyone for a laugh.

I watched the first episode where Martin met Roz, and he likes her from the first second and tells Frasier right after the party.  The next episode they are already flirting and Martin says to Roz "How's my girlfriend?"   I love character details like that that are kept consistent throughout the whole series.  If any of you are "Will and Grace" fans it's like how Karen always liked Nathan (Woody Harrelson) but never liked Leo (Harry Connick Jr.).  That realism and consistency that feels authentic based on who the characters supposedly are makes the characters seem like real people and it's something I really appreciate.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I guess if Niles was looking after Lilth and really wanted to see she'd make it to the hotel okay, I could kind of see it happening at the door.  Because as you said, it just takes a fleeting moment.  And Lilith was so desperate for validation that night.  It just seems so selfish of her.  There are so many other men in Seattle she could have went after!

True, she had no shortage of options. But, just as Frasier knew about the kind of pattern he and Lilith always fell into whenever they saw each other, she was also clearly aware of that pattern. I think, in a twisted way, Niles was about the closest she could get to experiencing that without actually falling into that same old pattern with Frasier himself. There wasn't quite the same level of baggage with him there would be with Frasier. 

But yeah, they were both lonely, both feeling deeply insecure about themselves, physically and otherwise, both mourning the ends of marriages that were messy and complicated, hell, they were both longing for love and affection and intimacy from someone they knew they couldn't have (Lilith with Frasier, Niles, of course, with Daphne)...even if they hadn't been drunk, there's still plenty there to explain why they connected as they did. 

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Niles had a sparkle with the women he supposedly didn't like - Lilith, Roz.  I think it's because deep down he just wants approval.  He refused to talk to Lilith for years after his wedding because Lilith laughed at Maris's vows. But when she apologized he completely melted and hugged her and thanked her profusely.  As Frasier said he is just not used to receiving that kind of validation.

Roz was a fantastic sparring partner for Niles.  Niles didn't care to have Roz's attention and Roz certainly didn't need Niles's when she had so many men in her life.  Niles couldn't stand the thought of another person's germs touching him but Roz would make out with anyone for a laugh.

You're right, he does! Alongside the reasons you note, I think it's also because they provide a good balance for him. He's both intimidated and yet intrigued by their boldness or lack of refinement or outgoing, opinionated nature or other things of that sort, because they're so different from him in so many ways. Plus, Frasier and Niles' mom was a strong, no-nonsense, independent woman as well, so I think they're just used to being around those kinds of women in general. 

Quote

I watched the first episode where Martin met Roz, and he likes her from the first second and tells Frasier right after the party.  The next episode they are already flirting and Martin says to Roz "How's my girlfriend?"   I love character details like that that are kept consistent throughout the whole series.  If any of you are "Will and Grace" fans it's like how Karen always liked Nathan (Woody Harrelson) but never liked Leo (Harry Connick Jr.).  That realism and consistency that feels authentic based on who the characters supposedly are makes the characters seem like real people and it's something I really appreciate.

I like those kinds of details, too. "Will & Grace" is another perfect example of that, definitely. Plus, in the case of "Frasier", knowing how close the cast was and is off the set just makes those little moments and character connections all the more heartwarming and believable, because you know that affection is coming from a genuine place :). 

And it just makes so much sense that Martin and Roz would click - they're both more down to earth, both know how to react to and handle Frasier and Niles and their pompous attitudes, both had a similar sense of humor. I think that also explains a lot of why Roz got on so well with Frasier, and why she warmed to Niles over time. She got on well with Martin and knew he was a good guy, so that made it easier for her, with time, to see the good in Frasier and Niles, too. 

  • Like 3
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

"Moon Dance" is such a sad episode.  Niles thinks that he and Daphne are confessing their feelings to one another, but Daphne thinks they're just acting for the benefit of everyone else.

There's so much pathos in this show, which makes parts of it really hard to watch.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Ohhhhh, yes. The look on Niles' face when Daphne compliments him on being a good actor...:(. 

I've heard Jane Leeves talk before about how she played Daphne as kind of being aware on some level of Niles' interest in her, but after seeing the kinds of women Niles wound up with, all posh and high society and such, she didn't want to dare entertain the fact that he could actually genuinely be interested in someone like her, so whatever hints of interest she may have had in him prior to season 7 were kind of tamped down and pushed to the back of her mind. 

With that analysis in mind (and it's an analysis I'm inclined to support), I think that paints Daphne's interaction with Niles in "Moon Dance" in a whole new and interesting light. There are moments when it does seem her flirty banter with him isn't exactly an act on her end, either. 

As heartbreaking as that ending is, though, I do love that episode so much. Niles/Daphne are one of my oldest ships and that episode is a big one for them and I just love seeing them dance together as they do and....yeah :). Plus, I love Daphne's red dress and wish I had one like it. And I wish I could have a fun night of dancing like that, too :D. 

I also love when Martin's trying to talk to Niles and he shares that story about that woman he was interested in, and this exchange happens:

Martin: When I was separated from your mother, there was this pretty coroner in the city morgue. I always had a bit of a crush on her. Whenever we'd find a dead body, I'd yell out, "Okay, boys, I'll take it from here." So, this one night, I invited her down to the corner bar.
Niles: Coroners have their own bars?
Martin: No, corner, Niles. The corner bar!

The title card for that scene just makes it funnier: "Where else would coroners get together?" :D. 

  • Useful 1
  • Laugh 5

Share this post


Link to post

The red dress is amazing.

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Martin: When I was separated from your mother, there was this pretty coroner in the city morgue. I always had a bit of a crush on her. Whenever we'd find a dead body, I'd yell out, "Okay, boys, I'll take it from here." So, this one night, I invited her down to the corner bar.
Niles: Coroners have their own bars?
Martin: No, corner, Niles. The corner bar!

The delivery on Martin's line here is just great.  I love it.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I liked the episode with Sam, mainly because I  like Tea Leoni. And I liked the one where Lilith, Diane and Nanette show up in Frasier's head. But yeah, the others were cringey. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, I didn't like any of the ones when the old Cheers crew showed up.

I didn't love them but at least the episode with woody took a smart angle of how contextual some relationships are.  There are people we go to school with, work with, participate in a sport with that seem like they're very close friends. 

But once that commonality is removed, there's just not enough to sustain a long term friendship.  Going to dinner every few years to reflect on the past is basically the wonderful limit but anything beyond that feels awkward.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I didn't love them but at least the episode with woody took a smart angle of how contextual some relationships are.  There are people we go to school with, work with, participate in a sport with that seem like they're very close friends. 

But once that commonality is removed, there's just not enough to sustain a long term friendship.  Going to dinner every few years to reflect on the past is basically the wonderful limit but anything beyond that feels awkward.

I actually really liked that episode.  Both for your reasoning and the fact that both Frasier and Woody felt they had the better life.  That's contentment.  Much better than the grass is greener angle.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed on everyone's reasons for liking the Woody episode. That, and I will always love Frasier's description of that karaoke outing he got dragged into involving Woody, Gil, and Noel. The whole thing about Gil singing "I Feel Pretty" with Noel joining him on stage and translating the lyrics into Klingon just cracks me up every time XD. 

I also like the episode with Diane, because there's some good moments between her and Frasier in that one, especially their final scene together at the end. It's sweet and poignant. 

But yeah, that's a pretty interesting, varied list there. I might move some episodes up or down, and I can think of a few others that aren't there that I personally would include, but there's a lot of worthy ones in there, for sure :). 

  • Like 1
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh yeah, I loved Lilith. Sam Malone, not so much.

I love Tea Leoni normally, but that episode does nothing for me.  Just feels like a different show.  I DO like when Roz and Sam meet but I hate how Frasier is always slut shaming her.  It's so crass and tasteless and unnecessary.  

The Woody one just makes me feel bad.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I didn't love them but at least the episode with woody took a smart angle of how contextual some relationships are.  There are people we go to school with, work with, participate in a sport with that seem like they're very close friends. 

But once that commonality is removed, there's just not enough to sustain a long term friendship.  Going to dinner every few years to reflect on the past is basically the wonderful limit but anything beyond that feels awkward.

 

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Agreed on everyone's reasons for liking the Woody episode. That, and I will always love Frasier's description of that karaoke outing he got dragged into involving Woody, Gil, and Noel. The whole thing about Gil singing "I Feel Pretty" with Noel joining him on stage and translating the lyrics into Klingon just cracks me up every time XD. 

Both of those things, yes, and I don't care how tongue-in-cheek or meta it was, Woody and Frasier's last chat in the bar where they clinked drinks and said a quiet "Cheers" will never fail to make me smile.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

No offense to Jean Smart, who is really talented, but I can't believe they'd even add a Jean Smart episode in the top 25.  Sigh.

They are right about some of these, but what about

- I love any episode to do with Sherry, especially when the brothers first meet her
- Frasier Crane's Day Off (classic)
- The Matchmaker (Classic)
- Can't Buy me Love (classic)
- I love the ones with Reggie Macklemore and TH Houghton
- Decoys (Roz and Niles at the cabin)
- Dial M for Martin ?????????? HELLO??????????  One of the most brilliant episodes of television of all time?
- The first Dr. Mary episode, that's a classic

The problem with this list is they're needlessly trying to be fair to each season and include everything when it's okay to admit that "Frasier"'s glory days were before Daphne and Niles got together and there's an abundance of great episodes in Season 4-5 and there's a dearth of good episodes in Seasons 8-10.  (I like 11.). 

I'm sure most of the fans like "And the Dish ran away with the Spoon", too.  Or "Visions of Daphne".  At least one of those episodes.  Or the one where Daphne has court mandated therapy.

I am happy that they included some of my favourites.  I don't think anything makes me laugh harder than "Back Talk".  I also love High Holidays and Mrs. Moskowitz and Out With Dad, of course.

I just think that all critics tend to pick the same cliche picks.  Personally, I've never been a big fan of Three Valentines.  (Blasphemy, I know.) Silent comedy, meh.  I also never loved Look before you Leap or Angels in America 3. But critics ALWAYS pick those episodes. I think the best Bebe episode is the one where she sabotages Roz.  

I think that the back to back episodes of "The Ski Lodge" and "Room Service" are the pinnacle of the entire series, so they got that right at least.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

No offense to Jean Smart, who is really talented, but I can't believe they'd even add a Jean Smart episode in the top 25.  Sigh.

They are right about some of these, but what about

- The Matchmaker

Genuinely surprised this one's not in here, yeah - it's often considered among the top episodes of the series. 

Agreed with your mention of 'Decoys", too. That one would absolutely be on my list, as would "Visions of Daphne". And "Something Borrowed, Someone Blue" should be in here simply because of the significance of that two-parter for Niles and Daphne, and the series in general (and they're good episodes in and of themselves, too :D).

I do like the Jean Smart episode they list in here, 'cause it's hilarious (my family loves to quote the, "PUT YOUR BROTHER ON THE PHONE!" thing all the time :p). But I can see it being easier to swap that one out for some of the other notable episodes that are missing from the list. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm watching Miracle on Third or Fourth Street, and just realized that Frasier actually uses the briefcase that Roz gave him for Christmas in this episode. In the episode where Nathan Lane steals it, Niles refers to the "inferior leather," and Roz says, "I gave him that briefcase!" and of course Niles giggles and says, "I know!"

I love the little consistencies in this show.

  • Like 3
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
50 minutes ago, jird said:

I love the little consistencies in this show.

And for a show that ran 11 seasons, that says to me they had an historian who could help the writers with details like that. I could be wrong. Maybe the writers were that good. Some shows are so bad about details like that. Looking at you, Golden Girls.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

One inconsistency was Martin saying he never had a brother in an early season episode (he spins a sob story about his partner instead) and then an unseen brother pops up in the episode where Frasier's cousin is getting married.  But overall it's better than most sitcoms. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size