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I love that episode!

Niles nonchalantly agreeing to go along with being Jewish is so on point - no questions just "okay!".

I really liked Faye.  She had good chemistry with Frasier and was smart and funny.  I think this is the one where Frasier is showing Faye's mom around the apartment and the mom says that Faye acted like she'd been in Frasier's bedroom before and Faye says "I'm not sure, it was dark and I was drunk"  LOL!  Perfect delivery too.

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5 hours ago, raven said:

Niles nonchalantly agreeing to go along with being Jewish is so on point - no questions just "okay!".

And then he opens the oven and is like, "Ooh, ham!"

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"Merry Christmas Mrs. Moskowitz" is also one of my favorite Frasier episodes.  

I loved how they put sugar in the wine so it would seem more Jewish. 

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Martin: I don't know how to be Jewish.
Niles: Well, just answer questions with a question.
Martin: Like what?
Niles: What, I have to explain everything?
Martin: Can't you give me an example?
Niles: What, I should give you an example?
Martin: Are you going to help me or not?
Niles: You're saying I'm not being helpful?
Martin: Oh, forget it!

 

Helen: So, Marty, both your sons are doctors. How'd you work that out?
Martin: I've no idea.  .............. Do I?
 

That's why I always tell people to rewatch Frasier holiday episodes around the holidays.  So much fun!

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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On 7/1/2021 at 6:04 PM, Irlandesa said:

I don't think I've ever read that. 

The sequel news has been out for a while.  What we don't have is details about how it will be brought back.  It sounds like he might be outside of Seattle.  He talks about bringin back old characters but it's hard to tell if they'd be regulars or just make appearances.

Grammar said in June that they could have it ready by early 2022 but they didn’t have a filming schedule, just a story that they were “polishing.”

he said he hoped to have as much of the original cast reprise their roles but that they’d have stories for all the characters, whether all the actors agree to return or not.

 

 

Edited by aghst
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Agreed. I like how the structure of the show allows them to work around and with some of the issues that typically show up in pilots, regarding introducing the characters and the premise and everything. 

And everyone already feels like a genuine character even then. Usually it takes a while for actors to kinda find their footing and get a proper understanding of their characters or for the chemistry to really start to fully gel, but this show had that pretty well intact from the get-go. 

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1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Its one of the best pilots ever. I love Frasier's reaction to Eddie.

Martin saying "It's eclectic!" when Frasier whines that his chair doesn't go with anything in the room, as a call back to Frasier pretentiously explaining his apartment's design style.  It should be corny, but it's still funny to me.

The writers never condescended to the character of Martin for being older, even in the first episode. FRASIER AND NILES did, but Martin often outwitted them and got to prove how good of an ex-detective he was.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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22 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Martin saying "It's eclectic!" when Frasier whines that his chair doesn't go with anything in the room, as a call back to Frasier pretentiously explaining his apartment's design style.  It should be corny, but it's still funny to me.

Not only do I like that for the reasons you note, but I also like it because we already saw Niles and Frasier's snarky/smartass side early on in the episode, and that moment with Martin is a perfect way to show where they got that part of themselves. I love moments like that, when their line delivery or mannerisms or facial expressions or whatever make it all the more easy to believe they really are related. I don't know if some of those moments and little details were conscious decisions by the actors during a particular scene, or just the result of the fact that they spent so much time together and forged a genuine father/son/brother sort of bond off set, but it really adds to the fun of watching them interact. 

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On 8/25/2021 at 3:33 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Martin: I don't know how to be Jewish.
Niles: Well, just answer questions with a question.
Martin: Like what?
Niles: What, I have to explain everything?
Martin: Can't you give me an example?
Niles: What, I should give you an example?
Martin: Are you going to help me or not?
Niles: You're saying I'm not being helpful?
Martin: Oh, forget it!

 

Helen: So, Marty, both your sons are doctors. How'd you work that out?
Martin: I've no idea.  .............. Do I?

Quoting myself, I'm watching this again and I never noticed Frasier's facial reaction to this.  I'm LOSING MY MIND laughing.

Why does Niles know SO much about Jewish culture?  Why is he taking SO much joy at pretending to be Jewish?  LOL

Faye telling Niles to "send the elevator back up" for her is SO odd.  I've never heard of such a thing.  She can't press the button herself?  Are elevators different in fancier buildings?  

Martin knew the Christmas tree was in the powder room, so when Mrs. Moskowitz wanted to use the powder room, he should have intervened, but he just stood there.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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15 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Why does Niles know SO much about Jewish culture?  Why is he taking SO much joy at pretending to be Jewish?  LOL

Good questions :D! I'd love to know the story behind this, too, if there is one. 

Quote

Martin knew the Christmas tree was in the powder room, so when Mrs. Moskowitz wanted to use the powder room, he should have intervened, but he just stood there.

My guess, he probably got so exhausted with the whole charade by that point that he just figured they'd find out eventually anyway, so might as well learn now :p. 

I also love the play Daphne's working on throughout the story. The bit about the three wise men and Jacob Marley all singing some modern Christmas song together or whatever it was...XD. 

And then the part when she asks Niles to help out: 

"What are you doing for the next two weeks, because -"

"Yes." 

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8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Quoting myself, I'm watching this again and I never noticed Frasier's facial reaction to this.  I'm LOSING MY MIND laughing.

Why does Niles know SO much about Jewish culture?  Why is he taking SO much joy at pretending to be Jewish?  LOL

Faye telling Niles to "send the elevator back up" for her is SO odd.  I've never heard of such a thing.  She can't press the button herself?  Are elevators different in fancier buildings?  

Martin knew the Christmas tree was in the powder room, so when Mrs. Moskowitz wanted to use the powder room, he should have intervened, but he just stood there.

Although he may not have realized it, Martin was actually dong very well answering questions with questions all on his own.

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10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Faye telling Niles to "send the elevator back up" for her is SO odd.  I've never heard of such a thing.  She can't press the button herself?  Are elevators different in fancier buildings? 

In buildings with fairly slow or limited elevators I think that's pretty common to send it back if you know someone is going to need it soon after you're done. I've done it a bunch even in my building where I'm up only 1 floor and my neighbor is grabbing their mail or something in the lobby.

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I've watched "Dial M for Martin" like 100 times.  It's one of my favourite episodes I don't get tired of like "Moskowitz".  Another good scene of Martin outsmarting Niles is when he convinces Niles to let him move in.

Quote

Niles: [realizing] Eddie? Eddie. You know, I just remembered, Dad, my building doesn't allow dogs.
Martin: Oh, well that's it, then. 'Cause I'm not leavin' Eddie.
Niles: Oh, of all the horrendous luck.
Martin: Oh, well, thanks anyway. I guess I'll just look for a little place. Can't be too small, though, 'cause I gotta have a bedroom for Daphne.
He starts thinking. Niles is pouring cream in his coffee and freezes in thought himself. We can see it takes careful concentration for him not to spill any.

It's so funny when Niles is pouring the cream and it just NEVER stops pouring because he's so distracted.  LOL.

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I like the moment after Martin first moves in - Niles comes into the living room for some reason and stops upon seeing Eddie just randomly walking in a circle on a nearby table :p. 

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On 2/25/2021 at 1:52 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Just saw Wendie Malick on "American Housewife".  She could be in the reboot and still in Niles and Frasier's lives.  

Quoting myself, I rewatched the movie "The American President" from 1995 last week.  Something very very cute is that John Mahoney and Wendie Malick share scenes in that movie.  As we all know, they dated on the later seasons of "Frasier".

I also tried to watch the movie "I Love Trouble" from 1994.  I actually couldn't get through that one, I found it dreadful.  But what's crazy about that movie is that the following Frasier character actors are in it:  Bulldog, Mel, Donny, AND Sherry!

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I didn't know they dated. I never know if that's a good thing or bad thing but they did have nice easy chemistry. 

My husband just watched the episode where Niles hires Donny. It's a favorite - coincidentally we just watched the first episode of Leverage a few days ago, so double dose of Saul Rubinek.

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18 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I didn't know they dated. I never know if that's a good thing or bad thing but they did have nice easy chemistry. 

I think she just meant they dated on the show.  I think John Mahoney was gay.

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3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think she just meant they dated on the show.  I think John Mahoney was gay.

He was, as are DHP and Dan Butler, who played Bulldog.

Quote

Quoting myself, I rewatched the movie "The American President" from 1995 last week.  Something very very cute is that John Mahoney and Wendie Malick share scenes in that movie.  As we all know, they dated on the later seasons of "Frasier".

Martin married Ronee, played by Wendy Malick in season 11.

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38 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think she just meant they dated on the show.  I think John Mahoney was gay.

LOL YES SORRY.   The CHARACTERS dated hahahahahahaha

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On 10/27/2021 at 9:56 AM, Katy M said:

Although he may not have realized it, Martin was actually dong very well answering questions with questions all on his own.

You know, it's been a long time since I've seen that, but I absolutely thought Martin knew what he was doing.  If I can catch that again I'll have to watch it considering the other possibility.  Or maybe it was supposed to be ambiguous.

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"High Holidays"

Frasier: I must say I'm really excited about seeing Freddie this trip.
Martin: Yeah, what you got planned?
Frasier: Oh gosh, everything from whale-watching to a trip to the garlic festival.

_______

(Later, Frederick shows up as a goth and freaks out the family)

Martin: [aside to Frasier] Maybe you could move up that trip to the garlic festival.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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It's so funny that after a couple of exchanges, with Frasier staring very intently at Martin, Frasier is able to determine that Martin was the one who ate the pot brownie.  Like I said about Martin, I love when the characters get to show off how smart they are.  With another character it might not be believable, but I totally believe Frasier could nail it.  Also, Martin did walk out of the kitchen without pants.

Frasier:  Dad, Where are your pants.
Martin:  In the fridge.  I had a reason.  (touches notepad). Fridge pants.

---

Earlier, Niles, who isn't high at all:  "I'm as high as the Himalayas!" 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Another good character moment is in Murder Most Maris.  I've spoken about how I love Roz defending Niles from the barista but also, she has the good common quick sense to call Frasier immediately.

When Frasier appears in the cafe, Niles is naked, and Frasier is just so calm.  LOL.  He handles the situation masterfully.

Much better than when he said "If there is any justice, Maris and Niles will be executed, thank you."  earlier on.  

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That is a great scene indeed, I agree. I always like the moments when Frasier goes into "protective big brother" mode for Niles. For all their differences and competition and whatnot, it's great to see moments like that and be reminded of just how much they care about and look out for each other :).

And yeah, that's a great scene for Roz and Niles as well. I love how their relationship with each other developed over the course of the show, they went from genuine annoyance/dislike and sniping at each other to more affectionate teasing/joking, and even had some nice little heart-to-heart moments along the way as well (like when they're both commiserating over their pathetic love lives in "Decoys"). 

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On 11/9/2021 at 12:21 AM, Annber03 said:

That is a great scene indeed, I agree. I always like the moments when Frasier goes into "protective big brother" mode for Niles. For all their differences and competition and whatnot, it's great to see moments like that and be reminded of just how much they care about and look out for each other :).

And yeah, that's a great scene for Roz and Niles as well. I love how their relationship with each other developed over the course of the show, they went from genuine annoyance/dislike and sniping at each other to more affectionate teasing/joking, and even had some nice little heart-to-heart moments along the way as well (like when they're both commiserating over their pathetic love lives in "Decoys"). 

They also do this immediately after Donny and Daphne announce their engagement.  They serendipitously meet at Cafe Nervosa on a Friday or Saturday night, and Roz says it's sad that they're both unsurprised to see each other alone.

A lot of people love that "enemies to lovers" trope and while they are never lovers, their interaction is really fun.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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41 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I love Niles, and can't imagine anyone doing it better than DHP. He was perfect for the role.

I wish he was in more stuff. The last thing I saw him in was The Perfect Host, a strange little movie and I think he was in Gone Girl but that was a while ago.

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I tried The Perfect Host but I couldn't bear it.

He's in the first scene of Addams Family Values.  It's very blink and you miss it -- I blinked and missed it!

 

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I think he still does a lot of theater work - he seems pretty happy in that world. I also remember hearing about him being on "The Good Wife" for a number of episodes some years back, but I've not seen that show, so I'm not sure who he played. It'd be fun to check that out, though :D. 

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10 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I wish he was in more stuff. The last thing I saw him in was The Perfect Host, a strange little movie and I think he was in Gone Girl but that was a while ago.

That was NPH 😁. aka Neil Patrick Harris.

They could play brothers, though.  

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Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

That was NPH 😁. aka Neil Patrick Harris.

They could play brothers, though.  

Oops, like I said, it's been a while. They could play brothers. I wonder what a movie about the Collyer brothers would be like?

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1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

Oops, like I said, it's been a while. They could play brothers. I wonder what a movie about the Collyer brothers would be like?

Yeah the story reminds me of Grey Gardens!

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1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

Oops, like I said, it's been a while. They could play brothers. I wonder what a movie about the Collyer brothers would be like?

"...you recycle, don't you, Niles?" 

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49 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I wish he was in more stuff. The last thing I saw him in was The Perfect Host, a strange little movie and I think he was in Gone Girl but that was a while ago.

He doesn't do a lot of TV.  It sounds like it's by choice.  He does do a lot of theater. 

He is going to be in a Julia Child miniseries soon, though.  He's playing Julia's husband.

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2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

He doesn't do a lot of TV.  It sounds like it's by choice.  He does do a lot of theater. 

He is going to be in a Julia Child miniseries soon, though.  He's playing Julia's husband.

Oh, that's fabulous!

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3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

He doesn't do a lot of TV.  It sounds like it's by choice.  He does do a lot of theater. 

He is going to be in a Julia Child miniseries soon, though.  He's playing Julia's husband.

What channel will it air on?? I'd watch that!!

Well, guess I won't, it is on HBO Max which I dont/won't be getting...

Edited by Gramto6
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I'm watching "Decoys" and I got Niles's film metaphor all wrong.  He was referencing "A Streetcar Named Desire".  He sees himself as Blanche and Roz as Stanley.  😄

I noticed something amiss in "The Ski Lodge".   Obviously, they contrived this moment to create the chaos, but, Daphne says to Martin, "Why couldn't Annie be hot for Frasier?" after going on about how she wishes Annie would leave "Dr. Crane" (Niles) alone.  Since when does Daphne EVER address Frasier as "Frasier" and not "Dr. Crane".  I'm quite sure she never called them Niles and Frasier until she got with Niles.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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15 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I love Niles, and can't imagine anyone doing it better than DHP. He was perfect for the role.

I remember reading somewhere that there was no brother in the original script, and that the role was created specifically for DHP after the writers/producers/somebody met him. No idea if that's accurate or not.

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43 minutes ago, jird said:

I remember reading somewhere that there was no brother in the original script, and that the role was created specifically for DHP after the writers/producers/somebody met him. No idea if that's accurate or not.

I wouldn't be surprised. I read that Liza Weil tried out for the part of Rory on Gilmore Girls. They liked her so much they created the role of Paris for her.

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Wikipedia

Quote

Casting[edit]

Martin Crane was based on creator Casey's father, who spent 34 years with the San Francisco Police Department. The creators suggested to NBC that they would like to cast someone like Mahoney, to which NBC told them if they could get Mahoney, they could hire him without auditions.[22] Both Grammer and the producers contacted Mahoney, with the producers flying to Chicago to show Mahoney the pilot script over dinner. Upon reading it, Mahoney accepted. Grammer, who had lost his father as a child, and the childless Mahoney immediately built a close father-son relationship.[24]

In discussing Martin's nurse, Warren Littlefield of NBC suggested she be English instead of Hispanic and suggested Leeves for the role.[22] Grammer was initially reluctant, as he thought the casting made the show resemble Nanny and the Professor, but approved Leeves after a meeting and read-through with her. Mahoney and Leeves quickly bonded over their shared English heritage; Mahoney was originally from Manchester where Leeves's character is from.[22]

The character of Niles was not part of the original concept for the show. Frasier had told his bar friends on Cheers that he was an only child.[22][24] However, Sheila Guthrie, the assistant casting director on Wings, brought the producers a photo of Pierce (whom she knew from his work on The Powers That Be) and noted his resemblance to Grammer when he first appeared on Cheers. She recommended him should they ever want Frasier to have a brother. The creators were "blown away" both by his resemblance to Grammer and by his acting ability.[23] They decided to ignore Frasier's statement on Cheers and created the role for Pierce.[22][26] Pierce accepted the role before realizing he had not read a script. Once he was given a script, he was initially concerned that his character was essentially a duplicate of Frasier, thinking that it would not work.[22] The first table reading of the pilot script was notable because the producers had never heard either Pierce or Mahoney read lines because they were cast without auditions.[22]

The only main role that required an audition was Roz Doyle,[23] who was named in memory of a producer of Wings.[27] The producers auditioned around 300 actresses with no particular direction in mind. Women of all ethnicities were considered.[22] Lisa Kudrow was originally cast in the role, but during rehearsals, the producers decided they needed someone who could appear more assertive in her job and take control over Frasier at KACL, and Kudrow did not fit that role. The creators quickly hired Gilpin, their second choice.[28][29]

The original focus of the series was intended to be the relationship between Frasier and Martin, and it was the focus of most of the first-season episodes. Once the show began airing, Niles became a breakout character, and more focus was added to the brothers' relationship, and other plots centering on Niles, starting in the second season.[30] The producers initially did not want to make Niles's wife Maris an unseen character because they did not want to draw parallels to Vera, Norm's wife on Cheers. They originally intended that she would appear after several episodes, but were enjoying writing excuses for her absence so much that they eventually decided she would remain unseen, and after the increasingly eccentric characteristics ascribed to her, they concluded that no real actress would be able to portray her anyway.[22]

 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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