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CuriousParker

Everybody Loves Raymond

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This show is still pretty popular. Sucks to lose all the different sub-threads. Booo.

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I seem to be jinxed, they are messing with the threads I follow here and two message boards I really like are pretty much at death's door.  I'm losing all the timewaster places I usually go to on the Internet!

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I have comcast so I am watching whatever episodes they put up that are available.  Yesterday they had two episodes devoted to celebritiy fans having a discussion about ELR. ugh. no thanks so the next episode was seeing the marriage counselor. I think they should've addressed the actual problem that Deb was trying to address: She was stuck with all the responsibility and had no help from Raymond. , I thought they needed a counselor over many issues. Especially concerning his mother! it would've eventually led to a divorce!

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1 hour ago, Chai said:

I think they should've addressed the actual problem that Deb was trying to address: She was stuck with all the responsibility and had no help from Raymond.

So many episodes have this happen.  Debra raises a legitimate issue and through the course of the episode somehow it becomes a He Said, She Said kind of thing with the resolution being that they are both wrong.  Ugh.   Debra's biggest wrong was in the way she handled the transgressions of Ray and his family!

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4 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Debra raises a legitimate issue and through the course of the episode somehow it becomes a He Said, She Said kind of thing with the resolution being that they are both wrong.  Ugh.

The only episode I can think of offhand where this doesn't happen is the checkbook episode from early in the series where Ray takes over paying the bills and majorly screws up.  Most of the time though Debra says or does something mean and somehow that ends up being the equivalent of the really bad thing that Ray did.  Like the time he didn't vote for her for school president but that ended up paling into insignificance because she was embarrassed that he stuffed his pants with meat so didn't tell people she knew him.  That wasn't a nice thing to do maybe but him not voting for her and being mad because she wanted to have some time for herself outside the house was a much bigger transgression and it got swept under the carpet,  Lol.  I think about this too much!

Edited by BlossomCulp
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I had an "aha" moment watching an episode of ELR tonight.  And not a good one.  I realized that when I started watching ELR in 1996 I was Ray and Debra in terms of age and stage of life.  23 years, yes folks 23 years!!! later and now I'm sitting at the grandparents table with Frank and Marie!  I'm still younger than they were when the show started  but not by much.

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On 1/6/2019 at 11:52 AM, BlossomCulp said:

 That wasn't a nice thing to do maybe but him not voting for her and being mad because she wanted to have some time for herself outside the house was a much bigger transgression and it got swept under the carpet,  Lol.  I think about this too much!

It felt like they wanted Deb to have a life outside the house and in the last couple of seasons, especially when the kids were older. I was hoping that Debra would have gone back to work or done more. I do remember when she went after Ray that he and his coworkers "goof off" at work and lead to him creating his home office. Which, is much more constant now than in the late 90s. However, in a way, I think Debra was just tired of being at home dealing with the kids most of the time. By the time we got to season 4, the twins were in school and Ally was starting to get independent. I do agree the transition to Ray's family was what kept most of the issues going along with Marie being a "smother" and never being wrong. However, by the end of the series, you wonder why Ray and Debra didn't divorce because they were fight in EVERY SINGLE EPISODE!

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On 1/6/2019 at 8:23 AM, Chai said:

Yesterday they had two episodes devoted to celebritiy fans having a discussion about ELR

Was that one of the "best of" episodes?

I don't have cable anymore, but I was away from work a couple weeks back and caught ELR in my room on TBS.  Of course it was 2 episodes I never liked...that one where Ray is told he's going to hell (errrr I mean going to "heck" LOL) for not going to church, the other was Bully on the Bus.  I didn't like how cavalier Debra was over Ally picking on poor Judy Hooty.

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17 hours ago, ByTor said:

Was that one of the "best of" episodes?

I don't have cable anymore, but I was away from work a couple weeks back and caught ELR in my room on TBS.  Of course it was 2 episodes I never liked...that one where Ray is told he's going to hell (errrr I mean going to "heck" LOL) for not going to church, the other was Bully on the Bus.  I didn't like how cavalier Debra was over Ally picking on poor Judy Hooty.

Both of those episodes do not make me happy. Especially with Frank at the end and why he does what he does. That was too much. AS for Bully on the Bus. That ranks up there every time they tried to teach Ally an important lesson and it not only backfired in spades. ELR was very bad at teaching kids "a very valuable lesson." Of course I'm still trying to figure out how to 2 four year old twins. Went to a large garbage can, tipped it over and then just magically grabbed their grandmother's cookie tin. I mean, Debra even says how she buried it and placed so much on it. Yet the twins just waltz in kicking it like a soccer ball like it was just waiting on the lawn. 

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On 2/23/2019 at 3:54 PM, ByTor said:

I didn't like how cavalier Debra was over Ally picking on poor Judy Hooty.

I didn't like that either but what I really hated was their big solution "Be nice, Allie."  Aargh.  If they didn't want to deal with serious subjects seriously then why bother?  There are very few kid-centric episodes that I liked (Michael home pretending to be sick one of the exceptions) but this is one I can't really even watch anymore.

Edited by CherryAmes
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On 2/25/2019 at 2:25 PM, CherryAmes said:

I didn't like that either but what I really hated was their big solution "Be nice, Allie."  Aargh.  If they didn't want to deal with serious subjects seriously then why bother?  There are very few kid-centric episodes that I liked (Michael home pretending to be sick one of the exceptions) but this is one I can't really even watch anymore.

Problem with Michael is that it went so over board. At that point from what Debra and Ray said it had been almost a week. He was literally clinging to the bed to keep from going to school. Yet, do they call the school to find out what Michael doesn't want to go? Do they try to contact the teacher by email? No. Also the fact that both Ray and Allie say: "Why was she yelling?" Pretty much what Debra and Marie had become in the final seasons. Completely yelling: "I'm always right" bitches!

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Just saw Liars the other day, and….

Ray was pissed at Debra because she always had him waiting whenever they went out.  They made a deal that if she wasn’t ‘AIS’ (ass in seat) by a certain time then he would leave her.

Now, Debra was ready with three minutes to spare but she just haaaaaaaaad to flitter with her hair!  Why couldn’t she have put the damned hair roller in her bag to take to the event where she could fuss with it in the bathroom?!   Anyway, when when Ray finally gets home Deb is pissed at him for leaving.

My question is, what was she so pissed about?  I was Team Ray on this one, and I'm a woman.

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If Debra ever decide to divorce Ray, she won't have to worry about a custody battle with him. Ray would love to be a drop in dad since that's what he already is. Dealing with Marie for the kids on the other hand.......

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33 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

If Debra ever decide to divorce Ray, she won't have to worry about a custody battle with him. Ray would love to be a drop in dad since that's what he already is. Dealing with Marie for the kids on the other hand.......

Heck, once the kids grew up they didn't have much use for Marie/Frank, from what I'd see.

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On 3/5/2019 at 10:29 AM, Snow Apple said:

If Debra ever decide to divorce Ray, she won't have to worry about a custody battle with him. Ray would love to be a drop in dad since that's what he already is.

The episode where Marie thought Ray and Debra were breaking up and she said "if anything happens we get the children, Raymond" made me laugh.  First no "we" don't get the kids, second Ray would not want them and third Marie would learn pretty damn fast that Debra would be the one calling the shots.  Almost makes me wish they'd gone down that road just to see Marie's reaction when she finally manipulates Debra out of the picture and ends up losing constant access to the grandkids into the bargain!

Edited by Homily
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TVLand recently started running the series from Season 1 on. I'm always struck by how different season one was from the rest of the series. It was a much sweeter show. Debra and Ray liked each other and were much more loving. It was more of an us vs them (Ray's family) rather than Debra vs everyone in later years.

But, and it kills me to say this, the show was much funnier in later seasons. The characterizations became way too broad, but it did lead to a lot of laughs, which is the point of a sitcom. In reality, dealing with a man-baby mama's boy like Ray would be a nightmare. Even worse was that he was a habitual liar. A smart woman like Debra wouldn't have put up with that. Ray was a good financial provider. That is the only good thing he had going for him.

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18 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

But, and it kills me to say this, the show was much funnier in later seasons. T

I hear you!  I love the early seasons but when I make a list of favourite episodes I am always surprised at how most of them are from later in the series.  Go figure 🙂.

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5 hours ago, Homily said:

I hear you!  I love the early seasons but when I make a list of favourite episodes I am always surprised at how most of them are from later in the series.  Go figure .

I felt the best episodes were from seasons 3-6, it was in season 7 that it started going down  hill. Don't even get me started on the disaster that was Amy's family and especially when Chris Elliot replaced Paul Rebuns as her brother. 

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On 3/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, readster said:

I felt the best episodes were from seasons 3-6, it was in season 7 that it started going down  hill. Don't even get me started on the disaster that was Amy's family and especially when Chris Elliot replaced Paul Rebuns as her brother. 

I kind of liked Hank 'n Pat. Especially in the episode where everyone discovered she smoked. They were a lot funnier than Debra's parents, though the older companion Debra's dad brought to Thanksgiving was hilarious.

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I liked Hank and Pat too. In addition to the smoking epiisode, I adored Pat calling Marie out on her selfishness during Robert and Amy's wedding. Ray was so impressed! Also the thanksgiving episode when Pat killed the bird believing it was an act of mercy. Marie and Frank were all holier than thou........and then the turkey dinner came out.

I hate Peter though. 

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2 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I liked Hank and Pat too. In addition to the smoking episode, I adored Pat calling Marie out on her selfishness during Robert and Amy's wedding. Ray was so impressed! Also the thanksgiving episode when Pat killed the bird believing it was an act of mercy. Marie and Frank were all holier than thou........and then the turkey dinner came out.

I hate Peter though. 

I had no problem with Hank and Pat, in fact I think they fit the mold perfectly on the type of parents that Amie would have. However, My Lord! What were the writers thinking with Peter? I remember reading notes when they originally cast Paul Reubens as Peter. The notes were: "Peter is a man-child who never really grew out of comics, but is a caring brother and is invested in his comic book store."  What lead to a guy going out of business, trying to sabotage his sister's wedding because he was angry that she was "having a life" is beyond me. Plus, Chris Elliot just didn't play the part right. Him almost having a relationship with Peggy? Oh no, that actually made sense. 

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Random thought - Is Fred Willard still living?  If so Hank 'n' Pat are the last of the grandparents.  Anyway I agree about Peter.  I guess they decided to go a different way when they didn't want PeeWee Herman back as Russell but I think they went a little too far with Peter.  One thing I never could figure out though was why his parents were obsessed with him not meeting a nice girl when he was operating his comic book store out of Robert's old apartment and clearly, one would think, struggling financially.  Peter meeting a potential mate was the least of their worries!

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25 minutes ago, Homily said:

One thing I never could figure out though was why his parents were obsessed with him not meeting a nice girl when he was operating his comic book store out of Robert's old apartment and clearly, one would think, struggling financially.  Peter meeting a potential mate was the least of their worries!

This whole show is about finding a mate. Like you're not worth anything without one. Perhaps it's a generational thing.

Look at Robert. He's a respected police officer and passed the test to become lieutenant. But to Marie and Debra, he's a loser because he's not married. Nevermind how their own marriages are. Marie didn't care if he ended up with a woman who eat bugs. She just want him with someone. Anyone.

As for Peter, in addition to the above attitude, his parents probably want an unsuspecting woman to take him off their hands!

Edited by Snow Apple
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RIP Georgia Engel. I loved Pat and some of my favorite episodes of the later seasons was Robert catching her smoking or her bonding with Raymond. She added much needed sweetness to the dysfunction and petty arguing of the Barones.

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TVLand is showing Georgia centered episodes right now in place of what was scheduled.    The first episode was Thanksgiving.  This one is the one about Robert's fork to chin episode.  There should be at least one more.

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