Oliver Queen: The Arrow

[wingster55]

Have they really had much conflict about Thea? 

Bits and pieces..but nothing that lasted long. 

[KirkB]

I forget exactly what Thea said in her note, but it wasn't really anything that would explicitly make Roy worry about her or warn Oliver was it? And he certainly has no way of knowing she is with Malcolm. Not counting flashbacks, I have a feeling the first time we actually see Thea this season we won't initially know it's her, ie a masked figure shooting at the Hood or something. And if he punches or shoots her in return...

Edited September 6, 2014 by KirkB

[apinknightmare]

I forget exactly what Thea said in her note, but it wasn't really anything that would explicitly make Roy worry about her or warn Oliver was it? And her certainly has no way of knowing she is with Malcolm. Not counting flashbacks, I have a feeling the first time we actually see Thea this season we won't initially know it's her, ie a masked figure shooting at the Hood or something. And if he punches or shoots her in return...

 

She said that she couldn't be Thea Queen anymore, because Thea Queen was trusting, and she doesn't trust anyone. And she told him not to look for her because he wouldn't find her - she was never coming back.

 

Seems like information Oliver might want to have, but Roy's a bit dim, so...

[wonderwall]

Then again, Oliver is a bit dim too...

 

Why in the world wouldn't he tell the team about the cure?!?! 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Then again, Oliver is a bit dim too...

 

Why in the world wouldn't he tell the team about the cure?!?! 

 

Because the writers hadn't conceived that idea yet :)  The cure that Oliver conveniently failed to mention totally seemed like one of those things that the EPs just made up on the fly.

[Sakura12]

Oliver and Sara knowing about a cure was one of the biggest WTF's? for me. Because there is no way that Ivo could make a cure for something he couldn't even recreate in the first place.They could've easily had it make more sense if Sara who read all the research on Mirakuru was sent over to Central City to come up with a cure with Caitlin Snow or told her the info over the phone so Star Labs could make a cure. It all could've happened off-screen with a quick mention that they were working on a cure. The poor guy bringing the cure over could've still been attacked in the finale so that would not have had to change. 

[BkWurm1]

Brought over from Relationship thread (re the absence of influence of his team)

 

either he would have been killed by others or he would have gone so dark into himself that he might have killed himself

 

I agree that Oliver probably wouldn't have survived his first year back without his team and certainly all of the Glades would have been buried under rubble, but I actually don't think Oliver would ever purposely kill himself. Oddly enough, he's not healthy enough to consider taking his own life.

 

He might end up taking so many risks so that it in the end would pretty much be the same thing but I really think that by the time Oliver came back from the Island (and all the rest) he did not believe he deserved to get off so easily.  At the very least not before he'd finished his list and since I don't think he'd survive the year, yeah, he wasn't anywhere near  the point where he would have taken his own life.

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 5, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Nanrad]

BkWurm, well, I don't think the idea of Oliver dying his first year is really a theory. I could be misremembering, but in both cases, didn't both Diggle and Felicity find out about his secret identity was due to life of death situations? Actually, I am--Diggle was shot, but he went to Felicity, so she could drive him to safety. Keeping that in mind, he does need a team because Oliver can be pretty reckless as Arrow. 

[wonderwall]

Oliver would've definitely died his first year if it weren't for Digg and Felicity. He legit wouldn't have survived that gun shot if it wasn't for Felicity driving him over to Verdant in order for Digg to treat the wound. While I don't outright think that Oliver would purposely kill himself, I think that each mission he would go on alone would definitely be a suicide mission. Reason being is because Felicity is his eyes and ears, Digg is his backup. Without his eyes and ears he's basically blind out there in the field. He'll come across more surprise attacks, thus it would be far more dangerous. Without Digg, Oliver wouldn't be able to handle fighting more than a few people at a time. So yeah, Oliver may be competent without Felicity and Digg, but he'd definitely be dead by now if it weren't for those two. 

[fantique]

http://ladychaos83.tumblr.com/post/94449331785/stephen-amell-oliver-queen-and-ptsd

 

A write up someone did on Oliver and PTSD. Think I'm just still in search of someone who thought SA did a solid job at the beginning of season 1 with Oliver. It's cold and lonely out here by myself.

If it makes you feel better I felt the same way. I kind of randomly started wtaching it on Netflix thinking 'why not?' not really believing I would be into it. His acting is why I stayed. The subtle differences even in the pilot between wimpy kinda useless pre-Island Ollie and Oliver were so obvious even the body language and vocal range changed. He very obviouslly had a clear understanding of who both versions of this character were. You can always see thoughts brewing in his head and there is always a sligght vulnerability when interacting with those he loves that I just find endearing and interesting. I just wanted to give him a big old hug. I basically saw his "slip ups" with Diggle and Felicity as a cry for companionship.

 

ETA : regarding his romantic relationships and choices I think the consensus (at least on the creative end of the show; EP+Writers) is that the boy needs a clue. SA himself has said that he wasn't ok with the Sarah hook up or at least he was confused as to why the direction had changed. I do think that there is a certain point where incestuous dating (as in everyone in the same group dating each other at some point or another) gets to be too much so dating 2 sisters one after the other after having cheated one one of them with the other (WTF, just writing this makes my head spin) is much more than I can handle. It's not a moral standpoint, it's just that there is a point where doing dumb shit makes his life complicated and I can't sympathise with his "struggle" because he made his own drama happen. I love when characters have issues and flaws but self-created drama? I have never subscribed to that. It actually is my top reason why I give up on a character/show.

Also I think most people started to see it as sister swapping when there was that whole awkward "Oliver needs you" crap where it seems the show was trying to push Lauriver together again. I don't just blame Oliver by the way, I think all three of them needed to wake up and smell the coffee because that arrangement is weird. It basically sounded like when Oliver was with Sarah, Laurel had give her "approval" for it to be all good and after the break up Sarah was like "Your turn Sis!" which is weird. I said weird too many times so I am going to shut up now.

Edited September 8, 2014 by fantique

[NumberCruncher]

You know, I never understood the complaints about Stephen's acting in S1. I had very little exposure to the Green Arrow comics so looking back I think that might have changed my perspective a bit when I watched the show for the first time. If you were like me, you never knew that Oliver Queen/Green Arrow was supposed to be a charismatic smartass like in comic canon. I was genuinely surprised at the hate I read about the stiffness and dreariness of show Oliver because the only exposure I had up until that point was he had watched his dad blow his brains out, ended up shipwrecked for 5 years, and was covered head-to-toe in scars. As such I expected him to be withdrawn and filled with torment and I thought Stephen did a great job portraying that.

[statsgirl]

On the sister-swapping:  Taking Sara on the boat was very wrong but both Oliver and Sara were selfish and immature.  Sex with Laurel in s1 was part of growing up and realizing that the Oliver who came back from the island was very far from the Oliver who landed there. And while I can understand getting together with Sara in s2, that put not the just nail in the Oliver/Laurel coffin, but a jackhammer and a ton of nail, and then pouring concrete on the tomb. There is no way he can get together with Laurel again, not even if both Sara and Felicity die and they are the last people left standing in Starling City.

I agree that Oliver probably wouldn't have survived his first year back without his team and certainly all of the Glades would have been buried under rubble, but I actually don't think Oliver would ever purposely kill himself. Oddly enough, he's not healthy enough to consider taking his own life.

 

He might end up taking so many risks so that it in the end would pretty much be the same thing but I really think that by the time Oliver came back from the Island (and all the rest) he did not believe he deserved to get off so easily.  At the very least not before he'd finished his list and since I don't think he'd survive the year, yeah, he wasn't anywhere near  the point where he would have taken his own life.

I took a course this summer on how the brain makes decisions, and at the empathy section, I got all excited because it fit Oliver so well.  (You know you're watching too much Arrow when....)  

 

Bear with me a little while I explain.  Or just skip this paragraph.  People (and higher level animals) have mirror neurons which means that when we see someone else doing something, we imagine ourselves doing it and we feel what they feel.  Singer et al (2004) did a study in which subjects did a trust experiment with confederates (people working with the researcher but the subjects didn't know that) in which the confederates either played fair with the subjects or cheated them. Then the confederates were put in a situation where they experienced pain.  (Not real pain, just pretend. We've progressed from Milgram's day.)  If the confederate played fair, both male and female subjects experienced higher activation in the part of the brain that feels empathy when they thought he was feeling pain.  If the confederate cheated the subject, female subjects again had activation in that area although less than if they had played fair. But for male subjects, they didn't experience that. Instead, what they got was activation in the reward-relate areas which matched up with their desire for revenge.

 

What does this mean for Oliver?  When he got back to Starling City, he was a mess.  Cold, without feelings, close to psychotic. yes wooden.  Nothing got through to him, not Moira nor Thea nor Tommy.  Pleasure part of the brain?  Not working.

 

Except when he's crossing names off his father's list.  Punishing bad guys would light up the pleasure parts of his brain because those guys deserve to be punished.

 

So I think he would take risks, bad risks, stupid risks, but not because he had a death wish, because getting the bad guys and punishing them would be the only thing that makes him feel good.  Later, when Diggle and Felicity join him, Oliver was able to open up to them and Tommy and he would start getting pleasure out of being with other people, but when he first got back, it would be only about The List and crossing names off.  

[quarks]

General question for the group here:

 

One of the extras on the season two Blu-Rays is a half hour thing called "From Vigilante to Hero."  In it, the EPs suggest that Oliver has an actual addiction to killing, similar to alcohol - which he has to fight.  He slips once (the Count) but triumphs in the end (Slade).

 

So, is it me, or was this completely not on screen in the second season? I thought Oliver returned absolutely determined not to kill, to the point where I never got the sense that he even wanted to kill anyone - not even the Count. Oliver seemed willing enough to lower his bow there until the Count raised the syringes towards Felicity's neck. 

 

Did I miss something? Was Felicity's "No, Oliver, not for me?" meant as a recognition that she knew he might want/need to kill again? Or am I forgetting another scene where Oliver seemed willing to kill but didn't?  (I haven't started my second season rewatch yet.)  I get the sense that this might be coming up again next season, so I wanted to know what to look for.

[apinknightmare]

General question for the group here:

 

One of the extras on the season two Blu-Rays is a half hour thing called "From Vigilante to Hero."  In it, the EPs suggest that Oliver has an actual addiction to killing, similar to alcohol - which he has to fight.  He slips once (the Count) but triumphs in the end (Slade).

 

So, is it me, or was this completely not on screen in the second season? I thought Oliver returned absolutely determined not to kill, to the point where I never got the sense that he even wanted to kill anyone - not even the Count. Oliver seemed willing enough to lower his bow there until the Count raised the syringes towards Felicity's neck. 

 

Did I miss something? Was Felicity's "No, Oliver, not for me?" meant as a recognition that she knew he might want/need to kill again? Or am I forgetting another scene where Oliver seemed willing to kill but didn't?  (I haven't started my second season rewatch yet.)  I get the sense that this might be coming up again next season, so I wanted to know what to look for.

 

Yeah, I never got the impression that he was addicted to killing or even wanted to so much as he was just desensitized to it based on what he had to do while he was away (on the island/in Hong Kong/wherever). I thought it was his first instinct, not necessarily a need.

[statsgirl]

Interestingly, it was also Sara's first instinct, for example when Roy was mirakuru-raging.  Doesn't Oliver even say that he used to be like Sara when he first got back from the island?

 

So no, there was nothing suggesting an addiction to killing.  (Now Slade, on the other hand... ).  More like both Oliver and Sara were desensitized to killing as an efficient way to solve a problem.  (Although with Sara there was that whole 'I don't want to kill any more' in 2a but maybe that only applied to people she was hired to kill.)

[quarks]

Thanks. That's what I thought I saw - that Oliver just didn't care about his body count until Tommy died.  Sara seemed more conflicted about killing.

[Morrigan2575]

oh good lord are they really trying to claim killing as an addiction?  Sadly, with all their talk of Angel I'm not surprised they'd try to copy that as well.

 

I never got an addiction storyline out of it. I agree with others, both Sara/Oliver came across as desensitized to death, to the point where killing as always an option, not the go to one, but certainly not one they would shy away from, especially when people they love are in danger.

[Angel12d]

Yeah, ditto to what everyone else has said. No way did I ever think Oliver was addicted to killing. WTF. I just saw that killing had become almost normal to him because it was ingrained as a means of survival for five years. You don't shake that instantly. And killing the Count had nothing to do with 'slipping up' and everything to do with the person who was in danger.

[icandigit]

That's was funny. When watching the show I'm usually thinking joking that Oliver is a killing addict. But, I never saw that supported by the narrative. I thought his problem was when he or loved ones are  in threatening situations his go to move is to kill. He was all kill or be killed.  Seemed like a byproduct of five years of trying to survive. So much of what they put out about what is happening on screen doesn't make sense.

 

I really don't understand their Sara comparison in the show either. Sara was beating up not killing guys in the glades when she got back. The only reason why she went after Roy was because of her experience with Slade and the fact that he was an immediate threat. I still don't think she was wrong.

Edited September 21, 2014 by icandigit

[pootlus]

Yeah. I saw that he didn't care until Tommy died, but not that it was an addiction.  It was more like "eh, they're bad, the world won't miss em".

[wonderwall]

Yeah. I saw that he didn't care until Tommy died, but not that it was an addiction.  It was more like "eh, they're bad, the world won't miss em".

Dexter was addicted to killing, Oliver isn't. Oliver doesn't get antsy when he doesn't get that kill like Dexter did, he simply thought killing was the best way of getting rid of these guys. 

[catrox14]

Uh? Addicted to killing? WTF are they smoking? That was NEVER a story point. I swear are they now going to retcon Oliver to be a sociopath so that Laurel's addiction can be her crucible? Oh fuck that. No that was NEVER on screen, never implied, never once did Amell make any mention of him playing Oliver as being a sociopatch.

STOP TALKING, EPs

Edited September 21, 2014 by catrox14

[pootlus]

Also I always thought being a sociopath was hard-wired, not something you evolve out of through character growth and the love of a good woman or whatever.

 

STOP TALKING EPs

 

Heh.

[statsgirl]

According to James Fallon, it is something you are born with, but raised in the right circumstances, it doesn't express itself.

 

I like Sherlock, in the BBC series, describing himself as "a high functioning sociopath".  Nothing at all like Oliver Queen.

[catrox14]

Also I always thought being a sociopath was hard-wired, not something you evolve out of through character growth and the love of a good woman or whatever.

Heh.

What's he gonna do? Murder rehab? Why in hell would you ever suggest that your HERO is addicted to killing???@#$&-+-&%%$

Edited September 21, 2014 by catrox14

[foreverevolving]

What's he gonna do? Murder rehab? Why in hell would you ever suggest that your HERO is addicted to killing???@#$&-+-&%%$

Well John Hart gave it a shot (no pun intended- i think), although it failed to work for him... does this mean we'll have to send Oliver to the 51st century?

Ignore me i've been up for over 12 hours, i've had too much coffee and american-Mexican food.

 

 

ETA: As much as i love episodes description, the CW really needs to learn how to write them. they pretty much spoiled the entire goddamn episode!

for example was it necessary to include the bit where Oliver sees Tommy in the scope? i would have like to have been surprised by how Tommy cameo was gonna be like.

Ugh. I need to stop reading episode descriptions.

Edited September 25, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Happy Harpy]

OK, the dreaded "because of the life I lead" reared its ugly head again.

 

But unlike the Pod-people moments in S2, it didn't make me dislike Oliver. First of all because for me, it's in character. That's what Oliver always does, pushing people away for "their own good", and sacrifying his personal life to his mission. It's no posture on his part, he's deeply convinced of it, imo.

It also made me feel for him. It reminded me that the guy is an emotional mess, went through countless loss and traumas in very little time, and basically can't catch a break. It was even more poignant this time. At the beginning of the show, I didn't know the relationship he had before with Thea, Moira, or even Tommy, so I wasn't as invested in those as I am in his relationship with Diggle and Felicity, relationship that I saw being born and grow for two seasons.

(That's precisely why for me, even though it's in character for Oliver, it's still contrived bullshit when it comes to Team Arrow. Not only Diggle and Felicity live the life he leads, too, but for me they are the life he leads. They don't make him lose his focus, they are his focus. He would have lost himself without them, imo.)

 

And as always, I thought that S.Amell was excellent, and made even what is for me contrived bullshit believable. I felt like rolling my eyes at the writing, but I didn't because he made me root for Oliver even though I completely disagreed with his stance.

His last scene, with Oliver staring at his empty hands, was so heavy on symbolism that it could easily have been overly melodramatic or even ridiculous, and yet I found it emotional and touching. He impresses me in grieving scenes, like he did with Oliver's reaction to Moira's death. It isn't easy being the "hero" or the main protagonist, and his performance as Oliver is again, in my eyes, the glue that sticks the show together.

[KenyaJ]

Thanks for that, Happy Harpy. Even though I think Oliver's a big dummy sometimes, I usually find myself sympathizing with him and rooting for him to get his shit together.  And I echo all your thoughts about Stephen.

[Tangerine]

Just have to give Mr. Amell some props as well. Oliver might be written as a huge dummy that frustrates the heck out of me, but at least he's in character and Amell does such a good job embodying him that I WANT to root for him. He absolutely hit all the right notes in the premier. His pained look in the hospital when Diggle was telling him how he was right really stuck out to me. There was just so much written there; how upset he was that he was right, while staring at Felicity, knowing what it is he needs to give up.

 

And yes the cliched 'can't be both Arrow and Oliver Queen' is a huge crock, but I'm accepting it right now based on where he is in his journey. Oliver Queen's humanity and heart is what keeps the Arrow from being just another violent vigilant, while the Arrow's sense of justice and honour is what make Oliver so much more than the selfish douchebag that cheated on his girlfriend with her sister. He needs to grow up and learn that, and he's not there yet. So while I think it's a dumb excuse, he does still have a lot of growing up to do and I accept that he doesn't want to drag Felicity along when he's still got so much junk to figure out.

[TanyaKay]

oh Stephen Amell deserves all the kudos - esp the way he used his voice in the softer moments on The Calm, he endeared himself to me so much.

This is the difference between a better and a mediocre actor. Katie Cassidy further ruins whatever she is given and Stephen Amell has made ham fisted lines believable.  

As far as Oliver Queen is concerned, some one needs to tell him that a piece of jewelry made of arrow heads is the least appropriate gift item for a new born baby. Poor Oliver, he tries so hard. At times I wonder what will he do without Diggle and Felicity.

[statsgirl]

When you look at what he's given in the script, it's even more apparent what a good job Stephen Amell does with Oliver. Some of those lines are just awful, and worse are the feelings he has to portray.  The scenes he did with Susanna Thompson are gold.

 

For his sake, I hope they never do Lauriver again. The guy tries so hard and Katie Cassidy is such an awful actor especially opposite SA.   Give him someone decent, like David Ramsey or EBR or Willa Holland to play against.  For the sake of the show.

[tv echo]

Stephen Amell is a vastly underrated actor.  Before Arrow, I was not impressed by his acting skills (esp. on that bland Hallmark movie).  But his performance on Arrow has impressed me a lot.  His pre-island Oliver is very different from his post-island Oliver.  He's managed to portray Oliver's various and myriad emotions convincingly - douchey, weak, terrified, repressed, stoic, angry, bitter, barely holding it together, vulnerable, warm, hopeful, happy, disappointed, desperate, strong, ruthless, stubborn, blind - while still maintaining the same character, even as that character undergoes transition.  I never feel like Oliver is schizoid or inconsistent, but one person changing through his life experiences.  SA's Oliver is the glue that holds this show together, as it should be.  

 

(I was turned off The Flash forum because there was some bashing of SA (as well as Felicity) over there - saying Grant Gustin/Barry was so much better and more likeable than SA/Oliver in their pilot episodes, which ignores their completely different back stories and characters.)

[foreverevolving]

Stephen Amell is a vastly underrated actor.  Before Arrow, I was not impressed by his acting skills (esp. on that bland Hallmark movie).  But his performance on Arrow has impressed me a lot.  His pre-island Oliver is very different from his post-island Oliver.  He's managed to portray Oliver's various and myriad emotions convincingly - douchey, weak, terrified, repressed, stoic, angry, bitter, barely holding it together, vulnerable, warm, hopeful, happy, disappointed, desperate, strong, ruthless, stubborn, blind - while still maintaining the same character, even as that character undergoes transition.  I never feel like Oliver is schizoid or inconsistent, but one person changing through his life experiences.  SA's Oliver is the glue that holds this show together, as it should be.  

 

(I was turned off The Flash forum because there was some bashing of SA (as well as Felicity) over there - saying Grant Gustin/Barry was so much better and more likeable than SA/Oliver in their pilot episodes, which ignores their completely different back stories and characters.)

Right actor for the right role.

it's as a simple as that. very few actors are true chameleons (meaning have the acting range to be any character). SA isn't one of them- i'm not gonna pretend he is. what he does have is dedication, an apparent love and understanding of his craft and the desire to do better. will he ever be an oscar winner? who knows.

but i think he may just be smart enough and have a solid understanding of the industry to play it the George Clooney way- do one commercially profitable movie (say like ocean's 11- an example) which will enable him to get the green light to do low budget independent movies that while will only make just enough to cover their expenses they'll feed his artistic hunger. I won't be shocked if he opens a production company in the next 10 years, he also seems to have interest in what goes on behind the camera, so he may even try his hand at directing.

[pootlus]

Just have to give Mr. Amell some props as well. Oliver might be written as a huge dummy that frustrates the heck out of me, but at least he's in character and Amell does such a good job embodying him that I WANT to root for him. He absolutely hit all the right notes in the premier. His pained look in the hospital when Diggle was telling him how he was right really stuck out to me. There was just so much written there; how upset he was that he was right, while staring at Felicity, knowing what it is he needs to give up.

 

Couldn't agree more - while I thought that Oliver was (pretty much as usual) a giant douche in the premiere, I couldn't help but feel sorry for him and that's all down to Amell's performance. He really does make the role much better than it's written.

 

He rarely puts a foot wrong to be honest, love watching the emotions boil across his face, there are a million things going on under the surface of Oliver Queen and he puts them all together.

[KenyaJ]

I am so looking forward to this every week: The Oliver Queen Stupidity Index

[Genki]

I have to give major props to SA for the way he is portraying Oliver this season, especially 3.02. The scene this week, where he said he did not want to die in foundry, hit such a great notes, the tone in his voice the body language everything…got me right in the feels.

 

Also in his last scene Collin Donnell and he was reaching out to touch Tommy….Sooooooo Good!! 

I think it probably speaks to the beginning of Oliver's Martyr complex.

 

Did not like the way he was treating Felicity, but it felt in character, for me, based on where he is at, mentally, right now. Also I like how he is still so honest with her.  

 

Shame I dislike this episode, because really Stephen Amell did such a good job.

[Password]

Did not like the way he was treating Felicity, but it felt in character, for me, based on where he is at, mentally, right now. Also I like how he is still so honest with her. 

 

That Tommy scene hit me in the feels.

 

SA continually impresses me with his ability to reach into that really sad place inside him and make it work so well for Oliver. I'm not mad at Oliver. I don't agree with his decisions but it seemed entirely in character for him to shut down. Once again he opened up to Felicity. I'm not mad at him at all, boy has to learn good habits and unlearn bad ones.

[dtissagirl]

"I don't wanna die down here" was perhaps the biggest character development for Oliver so far. If one good thing is coming out of Sara dying, it's Oliver realizing that yes, he can easily die just like she did, on a rando rooftop during a rando mission, but the fact that he *doesn't want to* -- after basically telling Felicity he's resigned to that fate -- is HUGE.

[hogwash]

I LOVED Oliver trying to get in contact with Thea. The second time it happened, I actually teared up. Partly because I'm always happy when the show actually remembers that Thea and Oliver are siblings. But mostly because the vulnerability it showed was amazing but also completely in line with what we know about Oliver. If she had picked up, I doubt he would have spilled his guts to her. He probably wouldn't have even pretended to be upset or sad. But just talking to her and hearing her voice would have been enough for him. It's so sad he expects and asks for so little and it's even sadder that he sees no problem with that. His character arc stumbled hard in the back half of s02 and the end of it barely worked with what we saw in those episodes. However, I'm cautiously excited/optimistic about this season. I can practically taste where he'll end up when the season is over but I'm tempering my expectations. But he was AMAZING in 302! Oh Oliver, it's OK to want more.

[Trini]

I wanted to note the new intro for Season 3:

 

 

My name is Oliver Queen. After five years in hell, I have come home with only one goal: to save my city. Now others have joined my crusade. To them I'm Oliver Queen; but to the rest of Starling City, I am someone else. I am... something else.

 

The most notable changes are 1.) no reference to the island, and 2.) the inclusion of "others".

[foreverevolving]

for me the most notable is this; "To them I'm Oliver Queen; but to the rest of Starling City, I am someone else"

 

since this season is all about identity, Oliver choice to be the Arrow and forego Oliver Queen; but he can't because his friends see Oliver not Arrow. nice intro.

[TanyaKay]

yes, it is a very nice way to remind the audience that to the people in the know (I choose to exclude Laurel b/c he did not volunteer information about his crusade to her, it was Slade Wilson) know the real Oliver and there is no hiding from them - even when he is trying to. It also paints the canvas for the entire season for us. I like it. Hints at major character development.

[pootlus]

Also to Laurel he's still "Ollie" as opposed to "Oliver", and I think that's very telling.

 

Anyone else had a childhood diminutive that they asked people to stop using/people stopped using automatically when they got older?  It really grates when people still call you by that kid name, let me tell you.

 

To me it shows that Laurel still unconsciously (because consciously, I'm sure that she doesn't) thinks of Oliver as he was seven years ago, whereas he's a completely different person to the one who got on the boat.

[bethy]

Has Oliver ever asked people not to call him "Ollie"? I know he's referred to himself as Ollie when talking to Thea.

[foreverevolving]

Not that I remember. But, i feel like there is probably a part of him that wants them to stop, because i am sure that to him Ollie Queen died when the gambit went under.

Has Tommy referred to him as Ollie or Oliver? i can't remember right now.

[bethy]

I think Tommy did call him Ollie, but I can't remember exactly when. Sara called him Ollie before during and after the island. I wonder if there was a part of him that may have actually found that comforting on some level. I absolutely get what you're saying,though.

[Sakura12]

Oliver called himself "Ollie" when he left a voice mail for Laurel during Sara's zombie party.

[apinknightmare]

Oliver called himself "Ollie" when he left a voice mail for Laurel during Sara's zombie party.

 

HAHA.

 

I think Ollie vs. Oliver is something that fandom generally reads too much into - I don't think it means much regarding pre and post-island Oliver.

[Sakura12]

That's what I think as well. I'm pretty sure people called him Oliver when he was a partying playboy too.

[KirkB]

I get the feeling he only lets the people closest to him call him Ollie. Thea. Laurel. Tommy. I think he'd stop or correct anyone else.