Alias - General Discussion

[Peace 47]

Oh wow:  I had forgotten that they marketed a special boxed Rambaldi set for the entire show.  Did it bestow immortality on you when you opened it?  (Bad joke, sorry.)

You’re right, @Umbelina, that nearly everything about the show was ahead of its time.  One thing that kind of struck me as a “throwback” when I was watching, though, was the score.  I mean, even in that series finale, Michael Giacchino was still giving it his all with that orchestration (and doing the heavy dramatic lifting for the ep in my opinion): original leitmotif written just for the finale (the one thing that I remember loving about the finale), swelling orchestral arrangement with an actual orchestra:  it was great.  I think a lot of shows today have cut back on that and if they need background music, they’ll either license from one of those soundtrack houses and/ or license popular music to fill all the gaps.  If they write original music, it’s not scored with a full orchestra, either.

I know they released CDs of the original soundtrack for the first couple of season (I own them), but I really wish I could purchase that series finale theme (that starts when Sydney et al. fight off bad guys to follow Sloane down into the cave).  It’s the one thing I remember loving about the finale, and it still held up when I was watching.

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

Oh wow:  I had forgotten that they marketed a special boxed Rambaldi set for the entire show.  Did it bestow immortality on you when you opened it?  (Bad joke, sorry.)

You’re right, @Umbelina, that nearly everything about the show was ahead of its time.  One thing that kind of struck me as a “throwback” when I was watching, though, was the score.  I mean, even in that series finale, Michael Giacchino was still giving it his all with that orchestration (and doing the heavy dramatic lifting for the ep in my opinion): original leitmotif written just for the finale (the one thing that I remember loving about the finale), swelling orchestral arrangement with an actual orchestra:  it was great.  I think a lot of shows today have cut back on that and if they need background music, they’ll either license from one of those soundtrack houses and/ or license popular music to fill all the gaps.  If they write original music, it’s not scored with a full orchestra, either.

I know they released CDs of the original soundtrack for the first couple of season (I own them), but I really wish I could purchase that series finale theme (that starts when Sydney et al. fight off bad guys to follow Sloane down into the cave).  It’s the one thing I remember loving about the finale, and it still held up when I was watching.

It's a super cool box, and the hidden "extra" disk was nice.  It closes in a certain way only, and looks fab really.  I really debated, but finally gave in because a very good friend was borrowing (and loving) my season disks, so I gave them to her, and the final season set for Christmas.  Unfortunately, ALL of my notes about Easter Eggs are in those!  (in a weird code!)

Does anyone have that list of Easter eggs on the DVDs?

Yes, the score, while sometimes a tad "much" in spots, added so much.

My most unpopular opinion is that while I do wish Season 3 had been more cohesive, especially on Syd's lost time?  I really did love Melissa as Vaughn's wife, and especially as Sark's lover!  I honestly think the only things they did wrong there, or that could have been done better?  Had absolutely nothing to do with her, I think she was spot on throughout.  My issues:

1. Syd's lost time needed some more flashbacks.
2. Michael Vartan just didn't cut it in some really "gimme" scenes.  Specifically, his scenes with Victor Garber were adequate at best after he found out his wife was a traitor.  It seems like it varied from stony stare, which was kind of creepy and gave nothing, to overacting rage (and honestly looking incredibly stupid.)  Sure, there was some comparison between Spy Daddy and Vaughn, but come on.  Spy daddy was married for years, and had a child with Irina.  Vaughn was married for a year or so, and was in love with Sydney for months.  I just watched him try to act, so not only did I see him do it, but he sucked at it.
3. For the pure joy of sexy heat?  Maybe a few more Sark and Lauren scenes.
4. Honestly, though her death was well done, I think she would have made an excellent villain dropping in to cause chaos now and then.  Sark's always brought fun with his evil, but Lauren could have been a real foil, not as a regular, but just out there being smart, ruthless, and evil now and then.

Either way, in spite of the final season, it's still one of my favorite shows.  It wasn't THAT bad, considering a few others.

[Peace 47]

I think you make a lot of really good points, @Umbelina.  I mostly agree with you that S3’s problems were not attributable to Lauren.  My thought is that S3’s primary problem was one that many shows have:  they write this dramatic, game-changing cliffhanger to the prior season and then suffer creative bankruptcy on how to resolve it.  (It reminds me of another formerly favorite show of mine that disappointed after sending a character off the side of a building in the prior season finale:  Sherlock (BBC).  Shows, keep your characters on terra firma.)  I’ll acknowledge that this show had a better excuse for not having a good resolution for the setup (couldn’t get Lena Olin back).  I truly think if they had gotten Lena back for S3, they would have been able to make Syd’s missing years a family story like the ones they did in S2. Instead,  15+ years later, I only remember some garbage about the Covenant, and Syd meeting up with Kendall, and all this arcane criminal underworld stuff. 

Although I didn’t like her quite as much as you did, I really disliked the fan pile-on against the character of Lauren and the actress.  I was never a strong Syd/ Vaughn shipper (I wasn’t an anti, I just felt neutral), so someone coming between them didn’t arouse particularly strong emotions.  But I guess where I diverge from you is that I do think making Lauren evil was too pat a resolution to the “love triangle.”  My current favorite show, Lucifer (Netflix) is in no way as good as this show was at its heights.  But it had a love triangle in S4 that made sense, no one was the true bad guy in it, and the apex of the triangle came out of it learning a valuable lesson about himself and his relationships.  (Of course, the less said about that show’s disastrous S3 and its S3 love triangle, the better.)  Given that they did make Lauren evil, though, I would have had no problem with your suggestion that they should have kept her paired with Sark and made her a permanent bad guy.
 

On the love triangle, I wish they could have had more complexity than Vaughn feeling he couldn’t leave Lauren until he knew she was a criminal.  His wishy-washy “kiss Syd when they think they’re going to die in North Korea and then come back and fall into Lauren’s arms” just made me roll my eyes and pardon my crudeness, think, “shit or get off the pot.”  I fully agree with you that Michael Vartan’s acting in S3 wasn’t strong enough to carry that storyline.  But the writing didn’t do him many favors.

My controversial opinion is that I would rank the seasons as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.  I mean, I know S2 has the highest highs, but S1 pretty seamlessly did the hard work of establishing complex relationships and shifting alliances, was better at balancing Syd’s home life, and had a tightly woven, thematically consistent storyline that was relentless beginning to end of season.  Jack and Sydney had great scenes throughout the show, but her constant discovery in S1 that, despite his failings as a father, he was a better man than she had ever given him credit for was my greatest joy of that season.  (I feel like the series finale, in its flashbacks, softened Jack’s failings as a father, which I was actually okay with: like, the series finale portrayed that their falling out was mostly tied to her taking the Credit Dauphine job, since they seemed okay with each other in each flashback up until she disclosed that news.)

Edited October 17, 2020 by Peace 47

[ParadoxLost]

3 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I think you make a lot of really good points, @Umbelina.  I mostly agree with you that S3’s problems were not attributable to Lauren.  My thought is that S3’s primary problem was one that many shows have:  they write this dramatic, game-changing cliffhanger to the prior season and then suffer creative bankruptcy on how to resolve it. 

To me that had been a problem almost from the beginning. I used to complain about soft reboots which I viewed as the show trying to get new viewers.  But thinking about it, I also think it was a way to just wipe the slate clean because the ran into a wall and couldn't come up with a creative way to logically progress to whatever is next.  I remember that one where they took down SD-6 and becoming CIA proper being really happy they did that.  Not because I wanted that part of the story over. Doing that was probably the beginning of the end. But because I was getting really fed up with the way they where having Sydney show up in CIA buildings with too many people around and getting introduced to people with too much sharing of information.  its like they forgot that Jack was CIA working as a double agent for SD-6.  But Sydney worked for SD-6 and was duped into thinking she was working for CIA.  She had no business being that well know to the actual CIA and being around them that much with out an SD-6 operative putting a bullet in her head.

By the time season 3 rolled around they had just done that, the soft reboot, one time too many. It was my final straw as it were.

And I agree that season 3 problems weren't really Lauren.  Lauren was more a symptom than the disease. They basically set up a scenario where the viewers were supposed to follow Sydney's journey which involved not knowing what happened to her for two years and being adrift in a life that moved on without her.  And if you expect the viewers to go along that journey then the writing better be super tight and you are better off not having a bunch of plot points where viewers will find Sydney's character arc and decisions unbelievable. Ninety nine out of a hundred shows are going to fail at that. Alias wasn't the exception. 

Lauren was one of those plot points where the audience was going to diverge in terms of how they feel about Vaughn and Sydney.  I ended up on the train that was irritated that Sydney had been saddled with an emotionally weak, gullible moron who didn't deserve her despite being a shipper prior to it.  Really, for me,, developing Jack and Sydney's father daughter relationship is the only thing they did well the entire season. Well, and hooking her up with Will.  I was ok with that.  I got so far over Vaughn/Sydney that I used to think up ways they could redeem Sark to be a better love interest in Vaugn. That is how far my opinion of Vaugh dropped.

9 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

You’re right, @Umbelina, that nearly everything about the show was ahead of its time. 

It really wasn't.  It was basically La  Femme Nikita (TV series) with a bigger budget and JJ Abrams brand of not adhering to linear time and throwing convoluted mystery elements that may or may not get resolved.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by ParadoxLost

[ursula]

10 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I do think making Lauren evil was too pat a resolution to the “love triangle.”

This basically. They didn’t want Sydney or Vaughn to be the “bad guys” in the love triangle. I thought the first half of the season when Lauren and Sydney we’re moving towards friendship (the car chase scene is one of the few scenes I still remember and remember liking) was great. No one could replace Frankie or even Will, but Sydney needed a friend her own age to round her out, and after season 2, we lost that part of her personality and the show. 
 

 

10 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I would have had no problem with your suggestion that they should have kept her paired with Sark and made her a permanent bad guy.

Would have preferred if Sark and Allison had continued to be the “evil twins”. They could have recast Allison with her “original face” if Frankie’s actress wasn’t returning (though I feel she was fired which was stupid). Sydney had actual history with Allison, a vendetta that ran deep, and it would have made their rivalry more epic than what basically boiled down to Betty vs Veronica but with Spies!

 

8 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

developing Jack and Sydney's father daughter relationship is the only thing they did well the entire season.

The heart of the show was always Jack and Sydney. Vaughn was just Sydney’s love interest and they should have kept him that way, as the stereotypical Chick - he’s her handler, the analyst and the guy in the chair, and not Sydney’s partner in the field. They kept trying to make him edgy with his father’s backstory and with Lauren, then a new identity and it was like the writers didn’t understand why his s1/2 dynamic with Sydney worked in the first place.

[Umbelina]

Such good points everyone!

Rather than quote I'll just respond as I remember.

GAWD yes, Vaughn's stupid story with his father, AND Vaughn's stupid shot 42987 times and surviving had to be Alias at it's worst!

I wouldn't have paired evil Lauren with Sark as partner's in crime, had she lived.  Maybe an occasional hook up, but basically Sark was never really evil, he just did evil things.  Lauren could have been seriously conflicted/angry/evil.  Then again, they had Anna for that, and I adored Anna.  Lauren could have easily been the Syd double as well though, but then we would have missed out on Anna.  I liked Sark's stories, without a steady partner though.

I'm still bugged about two things in the finale.

Jack could have buried Sloane alive by tossing that bomb into the cave, and lived.  Also, WTF Irina?  I get that eternal life is worth more than you kid, but seriously?  I never thought she would attack Sydney like that.

The killed off some great characters, Francie, Lauren, Renee, and especially the exquisite Nadia.  😞  It would have meant so much more to have them, or some of them, (alive!  not as ghosts!) in the final season rather than Thomas Grace and Rachel Gibson.  They both did a hell of a job really, but in a final season, new characters with major roles are just fucking annoying.  We didn't spend years with them, get back to people we care about!  I almost wish both had been introduced earlier if they were going to take up so much screen time in the final season.

I honestly think they just killed people off for a few great scenes, without thought to how much they were losing.

ETA

Ooops, forgot the most important thing I wanted to say.  Yes, it was an incredibly cheap solution to the Syd/Vaughn dilema to make Lauren evil.  However, I LOVED Evil Lauren (actually I liked Nice Lauren as well.)  A more mature and believable true relationship story would have probably been better, but we would have missed Lauren trying to kill her dad, where she really broke my heart, it was so real.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Umbelina

[Peace 47]

Ha, I don’t even remember Lauren trying to kill her Dad!  Maybe I do need to add S3 to my rewatch.  My most vivid memory of S3 is after their office gets blown up or attacked or whatever (by the Syd double?) in the S3 finale (I think), and real Syd is surveying the damage, they have slo-mo shots of people assessing their injuries or assisting each other, and there is one rando that is cradling his damaged printer or fax machine or whatever.  The dead are stacked at his feet but he’s sad about his HP.  Most unintentionally hilarious moment of the show for me.

Anyway, I remember Lauren’s mother but her dad is all fuzzy in my head.  Kind of crazy that we met Lauren’s whole family when she was on the show for only one season, but we never met Vaughn’s mom, or flashed back to see his dead dad, in the entire 5 seasons that we knew him.  I really felt that the show missed an opportunity to dive more into what the dynamics were like at the CIA back in the day among Jack, Sloane, Vaughn’s dad, Irina, that Brill guy, etc.  Not that we needed flashbacks, but just more substantive references to what went down and present-day plots that tied into that.  I was always intrigued by those passing lines of Sloane making reference to his CIA work in Chile or Argentina or wherever, and how he embraced Rambaldi, and how he noted that Jack never cared about it.

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

The killed off some great characters, Francie, Lauren, Renee, and especially the exquisite Nadia.  😞 

Not only that, but it is bonkers to me that Sydney’s entire original immediate family was killed in S5, with Nadia dying earlier and then both Syd’s parents dying in the finale.  I will never forgive them for killing Jack in the finale.  Inexcusable to go for the shock value of it and then not even write it well (as you all said upthread, unnecessary for him to go into the cave with the bomb).  Some characters in other shows you know have to die in the series finale:  that’s just what the writing leads to the entire time.  And some characters don’t die in the finale but you can see that they reasonably could have that as a capper to their story.  But Jack’s story was one of redemption and connection (as the No. 2 character on the show, to boot).  For the writers to think that it would at all be satisfying to their audience to see such a character bite it fundamentally misunderstands the story they themselves told.  And if Jack had died in service of something essential to propel Sydney, I could maybe have embraced that, but she just goes on to fight Irina.  Jack’s pep talk to Syd to get her to do that doesn’t require his death, and Jack being dead is never mentioned in Syd’s confrontation with Irina, or really at all in the closing minutes of the show.  He could have been alive or dead after Syd takes off in the helicopter, and it would not have changed one thing about how the show ended.  So why did it have to happen?

21 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

It really wasn't.  It was basically La  Femme Nikita (TV series) with a bigger budget and JJ Abrams brand of not adhering to linear time and throwing convoluted mystery elements that may or may not get resolved.

I never saw La Femme Nikita, so I‘ll take your word on that.  I was thinking more about the serialized supernatural element to Alias that gets people into fevered speculation and online discussion about what is going on:  That really took off with Lost, and you can certainly make an argument that the X-Files did it first, but it just seemed edgy around 2001-2002 in the middle of all those cop and doctor shows on TV.  And like you said, I didn’t see a lot of shows starting in medias res before JJ embraced that style. 

[Umbelina]

Oh, and hopefully this is my last "WTF?" but hello!  Tons of Rambaldi followers are still around, and Sark knows exactly where Sloane was, and that there was something incredibly valuable there.

At the very least Sark would sell that information, but it's equally likely he would want it for himself.  

Either way?  Jack died for nothing, because sooner or later someone is going to dig out the still alive Sloane.  Guaranteed.  Rambaldi followers and clues have been around for centuries.

So, for me at least?  Jack died, and Sloane is alive and undoubtedly will be rescued eventually.  Probably soon, but even if it's in 100 years, or 200 years, Jack died for nothing.

[Athena]

23 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

 And if Jack had died in service of something essential to propel Sydney, I could maybe have embraced that, but she just goes on to fight Irina.  Jack’s pep talk to Syd to get her to do that doesn’t require his death, and Jack being dead is never mentioned in Syd’s confrontation with Irina, or really at all in the closing minutes of the show.  He could have been alive or dead after Syd takes off in the helicopter, and it would not have changed one thing about how the show ended.  So why did it have to happen?

The finale is so so stupid. I can't believe the disservice they did to all of Syd's family from Nadia to Irina to Jack. Jack/Sydney were the heart of the show.

They could have written Jack a great ending where he lives happily ever after as a grandfather or he goes in a blaze of glory killing Sloane or an enemy, but instead he makes this ridiculously stupid sacrifice that doesn't end anything. The whole finale was anticlimactic. The only good thing about it was Victor Garber's consistently amazing acting as Jack. 

By that time on the show, I had become use to how lazily written it had become and how the show had refocused (due Garner's pregnancy, Abrams checking out). I did keep watching a lot of it for Jack, so I was not shocked with how they ended it. Just very disappointed in the show. I still can't manage to rewatch a lot of it. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/18/2020 at 1:17 AM, Umbelina said:

Jack could have buried Sloane alive by tossing that bomb into the cave, and lived. 

Jack was pretty seriously wounded so storywise I can see him going into the cave to make sure he takes out Sloane. But the last scene with Sloane was kind of stupid. He had a giant rock on top of him but won't die. Even if he does a Shawshank and chips a little bit of that rock away every day he will eventually get out. They could have made it a bit grusome and had him stuck under the rock with his arms blown off or something at least.

[Umbelina]

57 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Jack was pretty seriously wounded so storywise I can see him going into the cave to make sure he takes out Sloane. But the last scene with Sloane was kind of stupid. He had a giant rock on top of him but won't die. Even if he does a Shawshank and chips a little bit of that rock away every day he will eventually get out. They could have made it a bit grusome and had him stuck under the rock with his arms blown off or something at least.

See my post above.

Sloane will get out for sure, probably soon.  Sark knows where he is, and he knows there is something valuable there.  A bulldozer won't hurt Sloane, nothing can kill him now.  So either Sark goes after the incredibly valuable thing there, or he sells the location to any of a number of Rambaldi follows, either way, he will be rescued.

So, Jack died for nothing.  True, he may have died from injuries, but frankly, Vaughn survived much worse.  (ahem)

 

[Umbelina]

Oddly enough all this talking about Alias inspired me to start a re-watch!  Ha.  Just starting season two now.  

Irina walking in while Syd was speaking at the funeral was just an epic moment.  That 'extra' at the CIA desk deserves an award for conveying so much without speaking a word.

I do remember that the only part of this season I really hate was Spy Daddy setting up Irina with the C-4.  It really bothered me at the time, and still does.  I don't know exactly why.  It wasn't really out of character for Jack.

I THINK the reason it bothered me so much is that I was always aware that Jack would be found out by Sydney, and mostly I was just annoyed with the story until she DID find out?

I dunno, did that bother anyone else?

A minor quibble, I honestly don't think the shrink was needed on this show, she didn't completely annoy me, but is smelled strongly of nepotism, and also made too many things simplistic.  Right, Jack would go to her to discuss how to best gaslight his daughter and the CIA?  Come on.

[Umbelina]

I'm avoiding stuff, so I thought I'd do a little random list/opinion Q&A.  Hopefully a few others will chime in one one or more of these.  😉  In absolutely no particular order, and mostly just "off the top of my head" stuff after my recent re-watch of the series?

I'll keep this to 5, for now.  Feel free to answer any of these, or to just add your own!

1.  Most Idiotic Weapon:  That ridiculous tiny helicopter!  I liked the rest of that story, with the American guy in the bar roped in, but OMG.  Worst weapon ever, though I do have a close 2nd choice.

2.  Best Music Montage:  This one is very easy for me.  "No Man's Woman" first episode.  When that ended with her walking into first Sloane's office, and then the CIA?  Perfection.

3.  Favorite one episode guest star:  So many good answers here, but I'm going with Ricky Gervais.  It's also probably my favorite stand alone episode, because nearly the whole cast was involved in pretty compelling ways, from Weiss getting "shot" to Vaughn pretending to be Sark, to spy daddy killing Gervais.  I thought Ricky did a fab job.

4.  Worst Story Arc:  Vaughn and his stupid father is alive BS.  Honestly, until watching it again, I'd completely forgotten who set him up for that.  Elena for others who have forgotten.  Now, had that been handled correctly it could have been very good.  Elena was a spooky villain and Irina's sister, and had a significant future role to play!  It fell flat though.  To me it was a "give him something to do away from his former girlfriend" story.  It didn't have to be though.  Blech.

5.  Most touching Moment:  Irina realizes Nadia is her daughter on the airplane.  Perfectly played by both actresses, emotion packed into a very short scene.  Loved it.  There are so many others, but I really loved this, and honestly can't imagine it being done better.

 

Anyone want to play?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Most Idiotic Weapon:  That ridiculous tiny helicopter!  I liked the rest of that story, with the American guy in the bar roped in, but OMG.  Worst weapon ever, though I do have a close 2nd choice.

That helicopter was amazing (ly dumb). I mean it had unlimited ammunition which wasn't stupid at all for a tiny little helicopter.

[Umbelina]

52 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That helicopter was amazing (ly dumb). I mean it had unlimited ammunition which wasn't stupid at all for a tiny little helicopter.

Plus!  Even us non-super-trained-spies could see a dozen ways to take it down!  That really ruined what, except for that, was a pretty good episode.  sigh...

I mean, I even liked the Ice people, or whatever it was called, that broke humans into bit of ice.  It's a weapon that, using a bit too much imagination, I could actually fan wank into reality without TOO much work.  That helicopter though?  What in the hell were they thinking?

My second choice was Marshalls little spy cars.  Seriously?

[Umbelina]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:27 PM, Robert said:

 

Saying that I am not too sure about venturing past where I stopped - early-mid season 4 - as I have been told it only goes downhill from there!

I did love both of the last episodes of Season 4, probably the best of the entire season.  The worst of season 4 was the boring Vaughn's daddy shit.

Some of Season 5 is pretty good.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Umbelina
added stuff

[Quark]

I've just finished binging this show on Amazon Prime, and overall, it was entertaining, but there was so much that I found so stupid. The two most prevalent examples for me -

1. In one of the earlier seasons (I think Season 2), we see Sydney jump out of a plane that was going to crash into a densely populated area, but Vaughn and Weiss are so happy that Sydney is OK, they seem to have no other concerns.

2. Will's return in Season Three. Sydney had a hell of a lot of trouble beating Allison the first time round, but Will does it no problem? I found that so irritating.

Interesting that people hated Lauren when she turned evil. I kind of liked it. It was refreshing to have a character that didn't worship Sydney.

The amount of times Sloane was forgiven was ridiculous. He was around for way too long.

This probably sounds like quite a negative post, but I did think the acting was top notch, particularly from Jennifer Garner and Lena Olin. And I was entertained (for the most part).

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, Quark said:

1. In one of the earlier seasons (I think Season 2), we see Sydney jump out of a plane that was going to crash into a densely populated area, but Vaughn and Weiss are so happy that Sydney is OK, they seem to have no other concerns.

Do you mean Phase One, where they got rid of SD-6? She jumps out of a plan as it is falling apart in that one. I never thought about what it was crashing into, I don't think I remember it being a densely populated area. But so much happened in that episode it may have gotten overlooked. That is definitely a good point, they should have been worried about it.

[Quark]

15 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Do you mean Phase One, where they got rid of SD-6? She jumps out of a plan as it is falling apart in that one. I never thought about what it was crashing into, I don't think I remember it being a densely populated area. But so much happened in that episode it may have gotten overlooked. That is definitely a good point, they should have been worried about it.

Yeah I think it was Phase One, when they got rid of SD-6. 

[Umbelina]

On 12/4/2020 at 4:23 AM, Quark said:

I've just finished binging this show on Amazon Prime, and overall, it was entertaining, but there was so much that I found so stupid. The two most prevalent examples for me -

1. In one of the earlier seasons (I think Season 2), we see Sydney jump out of a plane that was going to crash into a densely populated area, but Vaughn and Weiss are so happy that Sydney is OK, they seem to have no other concerns.

2. Will's return in Season Three. Sydney had a hell of a lot of trouble beating Allison the first time round, but Will does it no problem? I found that so irritating.

Interesting that people hated Lauren when she turned evil. I kind of liked it. It was refreshing to have a character that didn't worship Sydney.

The amount of times Sloane was forgiven was ridiculous. He was around for way too long.

This probably sounds like quite a negative post, but I did think the acting was top notch, particularly from Jennifer Garner and Lena Olin. And I was entertained (for the most part).

Never thought about that plane!  I thought it was over the ocean, but now that you mention it, city lights might have been in the background.  I may have to watch it again.

Well, at least Will does mention he trained ever since he left. Ha!  

I totally agree about Lauren, I liked both sides of her character, and frankly, some of the most heated scenes on the show, sexually, were with her.  Especially with Sark, but even with that guy she stabs.

Yeah, they really stretched to keep Sloane in the mix, but I was able to go with it, since the characters themselves were saying 'WHAT THE FUCK?'  

[Hiyo]

Lauren was a horrible misfire. One of many that season that just dragged the show down. Season 3 is by far my least favorite season of all 5.

[ursula]

On 5/19/2020 at 12:56 PM, ursula said:

where can nonUSians steam this show?

Disney Plus!!! 💃💃💃💃

[HighQueenEB]

I've always maintained that the misfire with Lauren in S3 was that JJ Abrams didn't realize prior to the season airing just how much fan backlash there would be to the character as initially presented - just the basic new wife of a man who moved on in the 2 years after Sydney "died", and the sudden, mid-season reveal of her being "evil".  If she'd been evil from the very get-go, or there had been any sort of foreshadowing, then I think the character would have been a lot more successful than she was.  Either that, or double down on her not being evil at all and Sydney truly finding her to be someone worthy of Vaughn.  

That and her omni-accent.  Oh, I remember the TWOP venom toward Melissa George's constantly shifting accent that made zero sense for her character's backstory.

[Umbelina]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:05 PM, HighQueenEB said:

I've always maintained that the misfire with Lauren in S3 was that JJ Abrams didn't realize prior to the season airing just how much fan backlash there would be to the character as initially presented - just the basic new wife of a man who moved on in the 2 years after Sydney "died", and the sudden, mid-season reveal of her being "evil".  If she'd been evil from the very get-go, or there had been any sort of foreshadowing, then I think the character would have been a lot more successful than she was.  Either that, or double down on her not being evil at all and Sydney truly finding her to be someone worthy of Vaughn.  

That and her omni-accent.  Oh, I remember the TWOP venom toward Melissa George's constantly shifting accent that made zero sense for her character's backstory.

Well, they did mention that she grew up in London when her father was an ambassador there.  My niece, born and raised in the west, has a Philly accent, apparently when visiting her eastern grandparents/family, her language skills were at a development point.

As I've said above, I did like Lauren's story, both evil and good, or rather, I liked her character.  

Wasn't season 3 when the network decided they wanted more "stand alone" episodes and much less Rambaldi?  

I never cared about Vaughn and Sydney as a couple, well, maybe a bit in the first and part of the second season.  He was good as her handler, and the smoldering desire part was OK, but after they got together?  meh

He's just limited as an actor, and the others were pretty heavy hitters.  It showed.

[Hiyo]

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the misfire with Lauren in S3 was that JJ Abrams didn't realize prior to the season airing just how much fan backlash there would be to the character as initially presented - just the basic new wife of a man who moved on in the 2 years after Sydney "died"

I remember reading somewhere that Lauren was initially supposed to only be a recurring character, not a full time one.

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Well, they did mention that she grew up in London when her father was an ambassador there.  My niece, born and raised in the west, has a Philly accent, apparently when visiting her eastern grandparents/family, her language skills were at a development point.

The problem was there was also her own accent, Australian in there as well. Which is why it was referred to as the omni-accent.

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Wasn't season 3 when the network decided they wanted more "stand alone" episodes and much less Rambaldi?  

That was season 4. Well, the first half, anyway.

Season 3 I think was when they just went into Rambaldi over drive.

[Egg McMuffin]

Sydney’s dual life was a huge part of the appeal of this series, at least for me. Over the course of season 2, they gradually unraveled that part of the story. The unraveling was fun (Will finding out; evil Francie; etc) but once that was done, the show really lost something.

[Refresh]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:05 PM, HighQueenEB said:

That and her omni-accent.  Oh, I remember the TWOP venom toward Melissa George's constantly shifting accent that made zero sense for her character's backstory.

Speaking of TWOP. Bradley Cooper was on Armchair Expert podcast and mentioned how he read the internet forums about Alias, specifically he said TWOP. He recalled that people hated him/his character. That his slow internet connection would make reading the comments about him an even a more slow and agonizing process as he would wait for the page to load. Said it really messed with his head. This contributed to him asking to leave the show after Season 2 (Very paraphrased but that was the gist.)

Not that he's going to read this (but if you are Hi Bradley!) but I seem to recall that the consensus on his character Will was less about the actor and more that the character was pretty dull. Like a Ben from Felicity 2.0. 

Both him and Francie were these tacked-on characters to show Sydney had friends but it didn't really fit. He was running around trying to be this crime-solving reporter with no clue that Sydney had so many resources. So the audience knew he was wasting his time. Then they just became exposition tools. 

Anyone else remember what the conversation was on Will or remember this as true or not? 

[supposebly]

I remember people making fun of his hair. I actually liked him trying to find out what happened with Danny and slowly getting sucked into her world. But the crush he had on Sydney was annoying since it kind of made his quest to find out about Danny somewhat suspect.

And his interactions with Jack Bristow aka Spy Daddy were hilarious.

I'm sorry to hear that reading TWOP made him leave. Didn't Regina, the recapper interview him at some point? I had read earlier that he left because he felt his character was kind of played out and he wanted to do other things.

[KaveDweller]

11 minutes ago, Refresh said:

Speaking of TWOP. Bradley Cooper was on Armchair Expert podcast and mentioned how he read the internet forums about Alias, specifically he said TWOP. He recalled that people hated him/his character. That his slow internet connection would make reading the comments about him an even a more slow and agonizing process as he would wait for the page to load. Said it really messed with his head. This contributed to him asking to leave the show after Season 2 (Very paraphrased but that was the gist.)

Not that he's going to read this (but if you are Hi Bradley!) but I seem to recall that the consensus on his character Will was less about the actor and more that the character was pretty dull. Like a Ben from Felicity 2.0. 

Both him and Francie were these tacked-on characters to show Sydney had friends but it didn't really fit. He was running around trying to be this crime-solving reporter with no clue that Sydney had so many resources. So the audience knew he was wasting his time. Then they just became exposition tools. 

Anyone else remember what the conversation was on Will or remember this as true or not? 

I think your memory is correct.....people were frustrated with Will the character, but had no problem with Bradley the actor. I think everyone was annoyed in season 1 because he kept investigating and was inadvertently messing things up for Sydney. But then in season 2 people didn't like him being brought into the spy storyline, so apparently he couldn't win. I don't feel like people on TWOP hated him to the degree that they hated Lauren (or Melissa George) in season 3.

Bradley did an interview with the recapper for Alias back in the day though. It was really cool, because it was a smallish site and most actors would not have bothered to take the time.

[Refresh]

5 hours ago, supposebly said:

I'm sorry to hear that reading TWOP made him leave. Didn't Regina, the recapper interview him at some point? I had read earlier that he left because he felt his character was kind of played out and he wanted to do other things.

On the podcast he didn't say it was the 100% reason he left. But it was a part of it.

Thanks to KaveDweller I looked on the Internet Archive and saw the first pages of the 2 part interview on TWOP but wasn't able to read them in full. I'd totally forgotten about those! She was the recapper though, and he specifically said "the forums". He also said he only worked a couple days a week (season 2 wasn't on the show that much) and had too much extra time.  Others advised him to stay on the show because it was a stable network TV show and as an actor those don't come along every day etc.

Now that you both have confirmed we weren't THAT harsh I think maybe it's one of those hindsight situations where you want to leave but are looking for external reasons to? Also possible I'm reading too much into his story as told to Dax. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Refresh

[Hiyo]

I couldn't stand Will in season 1, but I really liked him in season 2 and was actually sad to see him go.

Funny enough, he was a lot like Chloe from Smallville, in that once he/she learned their respective protagonist's Big Secret, they become so much more likeable and enjoyable.

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But the crush he had on Sydney was annoying since it kind of made his quest to find out about Danny somewhat suspect.

Yeah he was definitely trying way too hard to be be Sydney's crusading white knight or whatever, and Sydney would fall in love with him once he exposed THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW AND WHY DANNY REALLY DIED.

[Kel Varnsen]

12 hours ago, Refresh said:

Both him and Francie were these tacked-on characters to show Sydney had friends but it didn't really fit. 

I liked that Sydney had a life outside of being a spy. She seemed like a cool person so her not having any social life always seemed weird. Now sure the whole balancing school and secret missions didn't really worked but I liked that she had friends.

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Bradley did an interview with the recapper for Alias back in the day though. It was really cool, because it was a smallish site and most actors would not have bothered to take the time.

Didn't one of the recappers also do the fan commentary on an episode on one of the DVD's? I can't remember which season it was and I am too lazy to go upstairs and look.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I liked that Sydney had a life outside of being a spy. She seemed like a cool person so her not having any social life always seemed weird. Now sure the whole balancing school and secret missions didn't really worked but I liked that she had friends.

Didn't one of the recappers also do the fan commentary on an episode on one of the DVD's? I can't remember which season it was and I am too lazy to go upstairs and look.

Yes! The same recapper that did the interview. It was season 3, and it was her and some random fan that won a radio contest. It was a lot of fun.

[Hiyo]

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I liked that Sydney had a life outside of being a spy.

I think that was one of the complaints about season 3, that Sydney seemed to have no life outside of her work at that point.

[Mrs. Landingham]

What I disliked about Lauren was that it seemed like they dumbed down the rest of the characters in order to make her look smarter and more cunning than they were. I refuse to believe that the great Spy Daddy couldn’t tell Lauren was working for the enemy. (Lauren ain’t half the spy Irina was, so I can buy that he was fooled by Irina for so long but not by Lauren, get real.)  She was just in too many scenes and the whole story arc reeked of “trying too hard” to achieve that triangle. 

Poor Bradley reading TWOP! His nickname there was Willage. As in Will, the Village Idiot. Sorry, Bradley! 😕

[Hiyo]

All 5 seasons of the show now available on Disney+.

Also, in the EW article, the Alias stars admit even they didn't understand the Rambaldi storyline.

[KaveDweller]

On 5/21/2022 at 8:35 AM, Hiyo said:

All 5 seasons of the show now available on Disney+.

Also, in the EW article, the Alias stars admit even they didn't understand the Rambaldi storyline.

I have to be honest, they seem a lot more confused than they should be. Rambaldi wasn't THAT confusing. 

[Kel Varnsen]

19 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I have to be honest, they seem a lot more confused than they should be. Rambaldi wasn't THAT confusing. 

If you watched the series sure. But I would be surprised to find out that the cast religiously watched each episode. And most of the stars weren't in every scene. So if you were just going by the scripts of the scenes you were in, it would be super confusing.

[ursula]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:24 AM, KaveDweller said:

I have to be honest, they seem a lot more confused than they should be. Rambaldi wasn't THAT confusing. 

On 5/22/2022 at 10:46 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

If you watched the series sure. But I would be surprised to find out that the cast religiously watched each episode. And most of the stars weren't in every scene. So if you were just going by the scripts of the scenes you were in, it would be super confusing.

Er, as someone who watched the series live... it was confusing. The fan theories made far more sense than the actual show canon.

[aemom]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:19 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I have been doing a rewatch of season 1 with my wife because we have kind of run out of stuff to watch. One of the things that really impressed me this time was the quality of the production and how expensive everything looked. It is all bright and shiny, and scenes are filmed outside. When things blow up they actually blow them up. The settings for each episode look like unique locations and when Sydney and Dixon go to a party it is full of people in fancy evening wear. Even the SD-6 offices have a ton of people in them. Hell the fact that Jennifer Garner does a ton of her own fight work is impressive on its own. It is crazy to think how much this show must have cost when it was never a big hit.

Meanwhile I am slowly working my way through Agents of Shield season 6. By comparison that show looks super cheap since just about every scene is filmed with only 2 or 3 people in a non-descript, poorly lit grey windowless room. The kicker was in the episode I watched last night, I kept seeing credit card and cosmetics commercials with Jennifer Garner.

My husband and I have been watching lots of TV series since the pandemic started. 

We watched Agents of Shield last winter/spring and we just finished Alias today. I also thought that they seemed to have a decent budget for a 20 year old show. Overall, it was very good, but I cannot believe how many 2nd chances Sloane got from the CIA.

At one point, Dixon was dating Angela Bassett and then that whole storyline kind of vanished.  I agree that they kind of messed up with Lauren. By making her evil, they gave the show the out to get Vaughn and Sydney back together. I did always find it a bit weird that a secretly Russian woman and very traditional Jack would have named their daughter Sydney. I would have expected a more classical, old-fashioned name.