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Contains Avengers: Endgame comment.

I was so happy and surprised to see that

Spoiler

James D'Arcy got a cameo in Avengers:Endgame.  It was a little surprising to see him with a different Howard, but I was glad to see human Jarvis again.

Edited by MisterGlass · Reason: Edited to add spoiler note.
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I appreciate it, thanks, @MisterGlass. Of all the spoilers you probably could have given away, that one's relatively minor. Just don't tell me anything else!  *GRIN*  I'll finally get to see it on Tuesday.

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Saw Endgame, I am still smiling with joy!

Spoiler

Peggy's true love and soulmate returns to her! My heart leaped in the theater when they showed them dancing in their house. I am so happy that Peggy and Steve got their happy ending!

Edited by SimoneS
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4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Saw Endgame, I am still smiling with joy!

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Peggy's true love and soulmate returns to her! My heart leaped in the theater when they showed them dancing in their house. I am so happy that Peggy and Steve got their happy ending!

Spoiler

Remind me, please! Didn't we hear, in the series or in one of the movies, that Peggy had moved on and had married someone whose name we never heard (but we knew his initial?).  Could they be tying up the loose thread by having her marry Cap, under an alias?

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19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Saw Endgame, I am still smiling with joy!

  Reveal spoiler

Peggy's true love and soulmate returns to her! My heart leaped in the theater when they showed them dancing in their house. I am so happy that Peggy and Steve got their happy ending!

Spoiler

Seeing them finally get that dance may have brought tears to my eyes.

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This is evidently a deleted scene from the Blue Ray special edition of Captain America: The Winter Soldier that's recently been posted on YouTube.  It's the full Smithsonian interview scene with Peggy Carter. I was quite surprised by how long it is.  We only got a snippet of it in the film.  Hayley Atwell is just SOOOOO good!
 

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48 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

This is evidently a deleted scene from the Blue Ray special edition of Captain America: The Winter Soldier that's recently been posted on YouTube.  It's the full Smithsonian interview scene with Peggy Carter. I was quite surprised by how long it is.  We only got a snippet of it in the film.  Hayley Atwell is just SOOOOO good!
 

After watching Endgame this changed my perspective. Also, Hayley Atwell is great in this role. 

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Not sure if anyone is following this thread or if you/they read comics . . . but I had to post this here. Huge comic spoiler, but I bet it will make you smile.

ETA: On-topic? Agent Carter was a good series. In retrospect, we would have gotten one more season at most. It just looks better after taking in Inhumans. Good luck trying to cram the two seasons into the continuity of Endgame, though.

Edited by Lantern7
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I am planning to not watch. I doubt that they will have an ending like Endgame had and AoS kind of said they are not following the movies timeline/canon anymore. So I guess it won't matter if I miss this only because a) it won't be MCU canon and b) I kind of liked the ending if Endgame.

Edit:

Also here is a source talking about the whole not following the movie timelines thing:

https://www.google.com/amp/collider.com/agents-of-shield-season-6-mcu-timeline-explained/%3famp

Edited by TVSpectator

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I guess I missed this, but apparently the writers did reveal in an interview that the plan for Season 3 was for Peggy's brother to still be alive and  the one who shot Thompson.

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54 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I guess I missed this, but apparently the writers did reveal in an interview that the plan for Season 3 was for Peggy's brother to still be alive and  the one who shot Thompson.

Link

Thanks for this. I think we'd all guessed that Peggy's brother was most likely still alive and that the fateful redacted file Thompson found was in fact about him not Peggy - and although Thompson's fate looked dire at the end there, I never doubted that if the show had been renewed and the actor remained available, he would survive.

Since we never got to see the shooter revealed on-screen, however, that little detail remains a might-have-been rather than canon.

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Not sure of the level of overlap between Agent Carter and Agents of SHIELD viewers, but for those interested, Sousa's story got a coda on Agents of SHIELD in its final season.

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7 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Not sure of the level of overlap between Agent Carter and Agents of SHIELD viewers, but for those interested, Sousa's story got a coda on Agents of SHIELD in its final season.

I know, right! I went back to re-watch Agent Carter after watching AOS S7, to see how it hits with the benefit of hindsight - both movie hindsight and Sousa-on-AOS hindsight. And honestly, I loved it just as much as ever. The show had such an open ending anyway, knowing that the lives of these characters moved forward in unexpected ways after it ended doesn't bother me. I'm glad they had the adventures together that they had, and got to experience some happiness together at least for a while.

Also - so much fun! I'd forgotten how much fun this show is!

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On 8/25/2020 at 11:50 PM, Llywela said:

I know, right! I went back to re-watch Agent Carter after watching AOS S7, to see how it hits with the benefit of hindsight - both movie hindsight and Sousa-on-AOS hindsight. And honestly, I loved it just as much as ever. The show had such an open ending anyway, knowing that the lives of these characters moved forward in unexpected ways after it ended doesn't bother me. I'm glad they had the adventures together that they had, and got to experience some happiness together at least for a while.

Also - so much fun! I'd forgotten how much fun this show is!

For those who didn't watch, what happened to Sousa on AoS?  Thanks!

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6 hours ago, norcalgal said:

For those who didn't watch, what happened to Sousa on AoS?  Thanks!

 

Spoiler

The team on Agents of SHIELD was sent time traveling to combat human-like alien androids.  They landed in the 1930s and then gradually leaped forward.  In the 1950s they went to an Area 51-like SHIELD base to look for infiltrators.  While there, they were caught by Sousa, described as Agent Carter's 'former partner,' and still a regional leader.  The agents are shocked to meet Sousa - they know him as the first SHIELD agent to die in the line of duty after the organization transitioned from the SSR to SHIELD.  After some misadventures, the modern team partners up with Sousa to support his final mission and to maintain the timeline.  At the last minute, they decide to fake his death, preserving the timeline but giving him a chance to live on as a member of their team.  Sousa then continues to hop forward in time with them through the rest of the season.  It's a bit awkward for him at first, but as he gets to know the team they start to gel.  As the season goes on, Sousa and Agent Daisy Johnson start to enjoy each other's company, and end up together.  In the final episode, in a flash forward one year after the climax, we find out that Sousa gets to go to space as part of Johnson's outreach team.  He's reading Carl Sagan's Cosmos to get ready, and has now seen E.T.

If you were looking for a bottle episode that involves Sousa, the time loop episode 7.9 "As I Have Always Been" is a good option.

 

Edited by MisterGlass · Reason: Typo
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Sadly at no time during the final season of AoS did Sousa stop, look directly into the camera, and spend 30 minutes giving us a point by point outline of what would have happened in Season 3 of Agent Carter.

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2 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

 

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The team on Agents of SHIELD was sent time traveling to combat human-like alien androids.  They landed in the 1930s and then gradually leaped forward.  In the 1950s they went to an Area 51-like SHIELD base to look for infiltrators.  While there, they were caught by Sousa, described as Agent Carter's 'former partner,' and still a regional leader.  The agents are shocked to meet Sousa - they know him as the first SHIELD agent to die in the line of duty after the organization transitioned from the SSR to SHIELD.  After some misadventures, the modern team partners up with Sousa to support his final mission and to maintain the timeline.  At the last minute, they decide to fake his death, preserving the timeline but giving him a chance to live on as a member of their team.  Sousa then continues to hop forward in time with them through the rest of the season.  It's a bit awkward for him at first, but as he gets to know the team they start to gel.  As the season goes on, Sousa and Agent Daisy Johnson start to enjoy each other's company, and end up together.  In the final episode, in a flash forward one year after the climax, we find out that Sousa gets to go to space as part of Johnson's outreach team.  He's reading Carl Sagan's Cosmos to get ready, and has now seen E.T.

If you were looking for a bottle episode that involves Sousa, the time loop episode 7.9 "As I Have Always Been" is a good option.

 

Excellent synopsis @MisterGlass! One thing I'd like to add:
 

Spoiler

In the present-day timeline, Sousa receives a high-tech, S.H.I.E.L.D.-crafted prosthetic leg that allows him to walk (and even run a bit!) without a cane.

 

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Adding a couple more details:

Spoiler

Sousa isn't told about the plan in advance, so doesn't get the luxury of choosing his fate. From his point of view he is basically kidnapped by the team and doesn't know he's been removed from the moment of his own death until it has already happened and they are already leaping forward in time, so there is literally no way back for him. He spends a lot of time being very confused (and more than a little pissed off about being ripped out of his life) but because he is an excellent agent also manages to roll with the experience remarkably well - he isn't just along for the ride, he is a contributing team member, despite never being given a proper mission briefing, so that he is just picking up bits of information piecemeal along the way.

It is implied that pressures of work came between him and Peggy in the end - he is still based in LA and Peggy seems to still be based in New York, and a long-distance relationship like that between two individuals 100% married to their work is always going to struggle. Must have been an amicable breakup, though - one of the AOS team members sneaks onto the Area 51 base pretending to be Peggy Carter and Sousa is pleased at the thought of seeing her, disappointed to find that it isn't her after all. He mentions her a couple of times through the season after that - picks her name out on a list of targets the enemy wants to eliminate in the 1970s, for instance.

When we first meet Sousa in 1955 he has graduated from the crutch of Agent Carter to a very smart cane, and is walking better than he used to, but getting the  fancy modern prosthetic is a really big deal for him - very casually given, in a moment when the team thinks they are all about to die, it's like, "Hey, we might all be blown to pieces in the next ten minutes, but in case we manage to survive, we made this for you!" But I think it has more impact because it is so understated, just the kindness and generosity of having thought of it and taken the time to make it, in the middle of this crazy mission. The new leg means he gets to give up the cane and walk normally, with no limp, and several times afterward he volunteers to carry stuff, saying he wants to experiment with how much weight he can put on the new leg. Those little comments hit a lot harder after re-watching Agent Carter and being reminded of just how much of a struggle mobility was for him, immediately after the war. Through two seasons of Agent Carter, we never see him bearing weight on that leg even once, his weight is always balanced on the crutch and he can't manage more than a step or two without it. And there is a scene in season two when he admits to Peggy that he would give just about anything to be able to walk again, so seeing that dream come true for him has quite an impact (although I do regret the removal of the strong disability representation, which could be viewed as kinda ableist - but since the technology for such incredible prostheses exists in AOS, it would have been weird for the show not to go there).

I think the show did a good job of writing him as very much the same character: observant, detail-oriented, principled, open-minded, kinda snarky, a strong team player, willing to stand up for what he sees as right even against overwhelming odds, able to hold his own in a scrap in spite of the bum leg and stick. And it is fascinating to see that character removed from the very formal 1940s context he originated in and transplanted into the organised chaos of AOS, and to follow his progress as he learns how to cope in that new environment, gradually reaching a point where he is comfortable building a new life.

And above all else, given that the movies sent Captain America back in time to reunite with Peggy, it is just really nice to see Sousa getting a happy ending as well - he works surprisingly well with Daisy Johnson! I mean, they couldn't be more different. He is so much a man of his time and she is an extremely modern hero, but they bounce off each other wonderfully. It still makes me laugh, though, that the AOS team looked across at their sister show and saw this character just sitting on the shelf, his intended happy ending torpedoed by the movies, and said to themselves, "He's ours now," and then just ran with it. Which is basically what happened with the characters on-screen, too: they saw this good man about to die and said, "Screw it, we're keeping him." 😄 And Daisy, too, deserved to get a happy ending. She hadn't had an on-screen romance for several seasons, so I fully expected her ending to be about leadership and fulfillment, which it was, but in the end she got so much more than that. It was all really satisfying to watch. And Sousa worked so much better in that environment than I'd ever have expected.

But yeah, an outline of the season three that never was would have been nice! 😄 Hey, if Peggy's brother was meant to have been the one who shot Jack, maybe the investigation into that was also part of what ultimately came between her and Daniel? At this point, alas, we have to accept that we will never know! 

ETA Oh yeah, almost forgot an important detail. According to history, Sousa was killed by Russian agents moments after delivering an important piece of tech that couldn't be allowed to fall into enemy hands - to the modern SHIELD agents, he is a legendary hero, which is quite touching after seeing how hard he had to work in S1 to be accepted as a competent agent, due to his disability.  But the AOS team learns that in fact he was the first person to realise Hydra had infiltrated SHIELD (which fits his character beautifully, since he was also the only person to realise what Peggy was up to in S1), so was actually assassinated not by the Russians but by Hydra, to prevent him taking his evidence to the authorities, which would have destroyed both Hydra and SHIELD almost before they began. It kinda makes me wonder how many other agents, over the years, cottoned onto the truth and were quietly bumped off to prevent them acting on it.

 

Edited by Llywela
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20 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

 

  Reveal spoiler

The team on Agents of SHIELD was sent time traveling to combat human-like alien androids.  They landed in the 1930s and then gradually leaped forward.  In the 1950s they went to an Area 51-like SHIELD base to look for infiltrators.  While there, they were caught by Sousa, described as Agent Carter's 'former partner,' and still a regional leader.  The agents are shocked to meet Sousa - they know him as the first SHIELD agent to die in the line of duty after the organization transitioned from the SSR to SHIELD.  After some misadventures, the modern team partners up with Sousa to support his final mission and to maintain the timeline.  At the last minute, they decide to fake his death, preserving the timeline but giving him a chance to live on as a member of their team.  Sousa then continues to hop forward in time with them through the rest of the season.  It's a bit awkward for him at first, but as he gets to know the team they start to gel.  As the season goes on, Sousa and Agent Daisy Johnson start to enjoy each other's company, and end up together.  In the final episode, in a flash forward one year after the climax, we find out that Sousa gets to go to space as part of Johnson's outreach team.  He's reading Carl Sagan's Cosmos to get ready, and has now seen E.T.

If you were looking for a bottle episode that involves Sousa, the time loop episode 7.9 "As I Have Always Been" is a good option.

 

Thanks for the summary, but I'm a bit confused.   

Spoiler

How is the Sousa character able to exist from the 1930s into the modern era AoS?  Does he age normally in those decades?  (Maybe this is one of those "you have to see it to understand" kind of things?   I stopped watching AoS after Season 2, so can't recall if Daisy existed on the show before I left...

Thanks!

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1 hour ago, norcalgal said:

Thanks for the summary, but I'm a bit confused.   

  Reveal spoiler

How is the Sousa character able to exist from the 1930s into the modern era AoS?  Does he age normally in those decades?  (Maybe this is one of those "you have to see it to understand" kind of things?   I stopped watching AoS after Season 2, so can't recall if Daisy existed on the show before I left...

Thanks!

Spoiler

It does take some backstory from the last couple seasons of Agents of SHIELD, but SHIELD now has a plane full of alien technology that has been converted for space and time travel.  The agents from the present day are traveling in it.  They go back to the 1930s and spend a couple days in New York.  Then, they reboard the plane and leap forward into the the 1950s for a couple days where they meet Sousa.  They take him onto the plane, and he jumps in time with them to the 1970s and beyond.  For him the trip from the 1950s to the modern era takes just a few weeks.

 

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5 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Thanks for the summary, but I'm a bit confused.   

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How is the Sousa character able to exist from the 1930s into the modern era AoS?  Does he age normally in those decades?  (Maybe this is one of those "you have to see it to understand" kind of things?   I stopped watching AoS after Season 2, so can't recall if Daisy existed on the show before I left...

Thanks!

In answer to your last question:
 

Spoiler

The character now called Daisy Johnson/Quake was originally the character known as Skye in the early seasons of AOS.  

 

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7 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Thanks for the summary, but I'm a bit confused.   

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How is the Sousa character able to exist from the 1930s into the modern era AoS?  Does he age normally in those decades?  (Maybe this is one of those "you have to see it to understand" kind of things?   I stopped watching AoS after Season 2, so can't recall if Daisy existed on the show before I left...

Thanks!

Spoiler

Sousa is able to transition from the 1950s to the modern era without ageing because he time travels. He skips over all those decades instead of living through them. With time travel, all things are possible - with time travel, you can skip entire decades in a matter of seconds. That's what the team do in S7. They jump back in time to the 1930s in pursuit of the alien time travellers (who want to prevent SHIELD ever existing, and also conquer the Earth) and then follow them forward through time in a series of skips, jumping from one era to another. They pick up Sousa in 1955 along the way, removing him from the moment of his own death because they hate the idea of just standing back to watch it happen, and then take him forward through time with them, jumping to the 70s, then the 80s, and finally back to their own era. From their point of view, no more than a few weeks have passed, depending on how long they spent in each era (sometimes days, sometimes only hours) and they jumped over entire decades at a time. The time jumps themselves take a matter of seconds, over in a flash.

Daisy Johnson was called Skye in the first two seasons, when she didn't know where she came from or who she was, having grown up in the care system with no record of how she came to be there. She learned her true identity at the end of S2 and from then on adopted the name her parents originally gave her.

So when I said it was fascinating to go back to Agent Carter with the benefit of hindsight, that's what I meant: Agent Carter ends with Peggy and Daniel just getting together, sharing their first kiss. But Endgame told us that Captain America later travelled back in time to reunite with Peggy, so we know from that that she and Daniel didn't stay together, that the happy ending the show gave them didn't last.

Agents of SHIELD picks up the story for Daniel a bit later again, and gives him an alternate happy ending with another very strong, determined and capable woman (and it's worth watching AOS S7 just to see how happy those two dorks make each other, polar opposites though they are).

But for me, knowing that Peggy and Daniel didn't ultimately stay together doesn't diminish their story through the two seasons of Agent Carter at all. I enjoyed watching their adventures together and watching them grow closer just as much with hindsight as I did first time around, if not more so. The relationship was special to them both while it lasted and I'm glad they had it.

 

Edited by Llywela
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Why Marvel TV Owes a Debt to Agent Carter
BY JOE REID   MARCH 18, 2021
https://www.primetimer.com/features/why-marvel-tv-owes-a-debt-to-agent-carter 

Quote

By the time Agent Carter premiered in January 2015, there was some healthy skepticism about Marvel ever being able to make a TV series work. Once again, here was a B-level character — Captain America: The First Avenger's Peggy Carter (Hayley Atwell) — being brought over from the movies for a series that didn't look like it would have any bearing on the actual MCU. The show did have a few things going for it: Atwell's performance as Peggy Carter was well liked by fans and critics, and the show debuted as a mini-series, coming at a time when the sprawl of the MCU was first beginning to feel truly oppressive. At eight episodes, airing as a mid-season fill-in for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Agent Carter had the chance to be an entertaining diversion rather than required reading.
*  *  *
... It is, essentially, an old-timey political/spy thriller, with Agent Carter a terrifically charismatic lead character. ....

The reviews for Agent Carter were almost uniformly good-to-great, with critics praising the show's light tone, quick pacing, and above all its liberation from having to advance the MCU storyline (something that even WandaVision couldn't ultimately maintain). It was the first MCU TV show to receive something approaching critical goodwill. Coming at a time when the MCU films were getting dinged for seeming like one massive TV series, and the other MCU TV series were getting dinged for playing like incredibly long movies, Agent Carter stood out for being a TV show that behaved like a TV show. Also making the show refreshing was the fact Peggy Carter was, at that time, the only lead female character in the entire Marvel film/TV universe. Atwell was a complete star in the role, and in a more just universe, the Emmys would have paid attention.
*  *  *
At a time when Marvel was gathering all its limbs back into its greater whole, Agent Carter showed that a Marvel TV show could be blessedly, thrillingly itself, existing with a vibe all its own, telling distinct and unusual stories with the strong emotional core of a female lead. In other words, Agent Carter paved the way for WandaVision and beyond. All 18 episodes are currently streaming on Disney+ and they're highly recommended.

 

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Watched a few episodes on Disney+ and I still wish we’d gotten a third season.

Also, because I ignore the Endgame crap, I would have liked Mr. Carver to be...Jarvis. What? They made a great team and Peggy had way more chemistry with him than she ever did with Souza.

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8 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also, because I ignore the Endgame crap, I would have liked Mr. Carver to be...Jarvis. What? They made a great team and Peggy had way more chemistry with him than she ever did with Souza.

You'd have to fridge Ana to make that outcome possible, though, and Jarvis adores Ana. Plus Jarvis doesn't fit the profile of Peggy's husband, supposedly saved by Captain America. (Neither does Sousa, and while I do mostly enjoy their relationship as it plays out over the two seasons, I have no trouble believing it wouldn't have lasted).

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2 hours ago, Llywela said:

You'd have to fridge Ana to make that outcome possible, though, and Jarvis adores Ana. Plus Jarvis doesn't fit the profile of Peggy's husband, supposedly saved by Captain America. (Neither does Sousa, and while I do mostly enjoy their relationship as it plays out over the two seasons, I have no trouble believing it wouldn't have lasted).

D’oh!!! I completely forgot about Ana! That’s what I get for posting after rewatching only a few episodes 🤦‍♀️ Disregard!

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5 hours ago, Llywela said:

You'd have to fridge Ana to make that outcome possible, though, and Jarvis adores Ana. Plus Jarvis doesn't fit the profile of Peggy's husband, supposedly saved by Captain America. (Neither does Sousa, and while I do mostly enjoy their relationship as it plays out over the two seasons, I have no trouble believing it wouldn't have lasted).

I too could see Peggy & Sousa giving a relationship a try (as implied in the S2 finale) but then deciding they didn't work out.  

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This shouldn't come as a complete shock to anyone; although, I do think that Agent Carter had a bit more of a case for being truly connected to the MCU when James D'Arcy made an appearance as Edwin Jarvis in Avengers: Endgame.

Did Disney+ Erase Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter from MCU Canon?
 

Quote

After years of debate, it seems Disney has finally made some form of definitive stance on whether or not shows like Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter are considered canon to the cinematic universe. On Tuesday, several international Disney+ markets moved the shows into the category titled "Marvel Legacy Movies and Series", insinuating they are no longer connected.

I'm wondering if the fact that Agent Carter viewers know that Peggy destroyed the last vial of Steve's blood could be problematic for the 

Spoiler

Isaiah Bradley story arc we've just been shown in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.


 

Edited by ProudMary
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On 5/8/2021 at 6:42 PM, ProudMary said:

This shouldn't come as a complete shock to anyone; although, I do think that Agent Carter had a bit more of a case for being truly connected to the MCU when James D'Arcy made an appearance as Edwin Jarvis in Avengers: Endgame.

Did Disney+ Erase Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter from MCU Canon?
 

I'm wondering if the fact that Agent Carter viewers know that Peggy destroyed the last vial of Steve's blood could be problematic for the 

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Isaiah Bradley story arc we've just been shown in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.


 

UGH. They keep giving me more and more reasons to hate the last ten minutes of Endgame.

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