Switched At Birth - General Discussion

[Scarlett45]

Fun fact Ivonne Coll (Adriana) was actually Miss Puerto Rico in the 1960s!

[Scarlett45]

Season 4 is 20 episodes and Season 5 is 10, so I will likely be done with both around October 6th. 
 

Would anyone like to join me for a One Tree Hill rewatch when we are done? I have never rewatched OTH since the initial airing....

[sara416]

19 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Season 4 is 20 episodes and Season 5 is 10, so I will likely be done with both around October 6th. 
 

Would anyone like to join me for a One Tree Hill rewatch when we are done? I have never rewatched OTH since the initial airing....

OMG....I never watched it during the original run but watched it later. It's so garbage but I CANNOT stay away from it. The plot holes, the shitty teenage romance...I'm so in. 

[possibilities]

I've been watching Pen15 on Hulu and would love to have a conversation about that.

[Scarlett45]

On 9/19/2020 at 12:13 PM, sara416 said:

OMG....I never watched it during the original run but watched it later. It's so garbage but I CANNOT stay away from it. The plot holes, the shitty teenage romance...I'm so in. 

Let’s DO IT!!

 

On 9/20/2020 at 2:28 AM, possibilities said:

I've been watching Pen15 on Hulu and would love to have a conversation about that.

I am not familiar- is there a thread here? I have Hulu I will watch with you!

[possibilities]

RE Pen15, after posting my message here, I thought to check and there actually is a thread for it, but it gets not too much traffic.

I'd love to have you come over and add to the conversation!

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/90906-pen15

[Scarlett45]

I forgot about that Sharee and Natalie did a rendition of Stand By Me. 
 

I really cannot believe that Karen (Travis’ Mom) after 19 fucking years finally started signing. She didn’t care to learn the entire time she was raising Travis but now that he’s gone she put forth effort? I just don’t see it.

Daphne did need to be in therapy, they all should’ve been after the switch. Her self destructive behavior, disrespect towards her Mom after Angelo died was something ill never understand. I find it hard to believe she loved Angelo- she barely knew him, and she didn’t remember him from her baby/toddler years.

Bay Bay Bay, taking the fall for Daphne is again something I will never understand. You never ever tell on yourself. Much less take responsibility for someone else!! Bay didn’t even think of her own record and future! She wasn’t even there! (I could maybe see this if they went together and then Bay changed her mind).

Both Katherine and Regina looked beautiful at graduation.

I really did like the “Switch Never Happened” Christmas episode. It was cute. Lucas Gabreel is a sleeper talent. Emo Tobias trying to flirt with Bay was GOLDEN🤣🤣. 

[luckyroll3]

17 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I really cannot believe that Karen (Travis’ Mom) after 19 fucking years finally started signing. She didn’t care to learn the entire time she was raising Travis but now that he’s gone she put forth effort? I just don’t see it.

I agree. This was a total retcon! Maybe if the mom had been trying to reach out to him and he wouldn't return her texts/emails or something, it would have made sense.  But she didn't even do that much; no happy birthdays or merry christmases over the past 2 years that he've been living somewhere else (in the same damn town) and they want us to believe she'd show up at graduation? Puh-lease! 

17 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Emo Tobias trying to flirt with Bay was GOLDEN🤣🤣. 

This was my favorite part of that episode! Especially her reaction to his flirting! Lol!

[sara416]

19 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

Daphne did need to be in therapy, they all should’ve been after the switch. Her self destructive behavior, disrespect towards her Mom after Angelo died was something ill never understand. I find it hard to believe she loved Angelo- she barely knew him, and she didn’t remember him from her baby/toddler years.

 

I am behind you guys, but this? So much truth! Probably because I am a therapist but FFS, why were these girls not in therapy as soon as the switch was revealed?

I'm not digging Toby's facial hair. And I thought he looked best in the first season or two, where his hair was less perfect and more rough around the edges. 

[sara416]

I just finished the dorm olympics. It was driving me crazy who that actor was, and then I looked him up. Jimmy Gibbler from Fuller House!

Toby got rid of the facial hair but his hair is looking rough right now. Not sure if he's trying to grow it out or something, but the slicked back look does not look good on him. 

Bay, as ever, is hair goals. And I thought the outfit with the long black skirt that she wore to meet with the art dealer was lovely. 

I understand Bay's complicated feelings toward Daphne, but at the end of the day, it was her choice to take the blame and she gets all the consequences that go with it. I'm not saying she can't be frustrated with those circusmtances, because they definitely suck. But she made the choice to take the fall and Daphne actually tried to stop her. So being mad at Daphne for the situation she is in seems a little bratty. 

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, sara416 said:

 

I just finished the dorm olympics. It was driving me crazy who that actor was, and then I looked him up. Jimmy Gibbler from Fuller House!

Toby got rid of the facial hair but his hair is looking rough right now. Not sure if he's trying to grow it out or something, but the slicked back look does not look good on him. 

Bay, as ever, is hair goals. And I thought the outfit with the long black skirt that she wore to meet with the art dealer was lovely. 

I understand Bay's complicated feelings toward Daphne, but at the end of the day, it was her choice to take the blame and she gets all the consequences that go with it. I'm not saying she can't be frustrated with those circusmtances, because they definitely suck. But she made the choice to take the fall and Daphne actually tried to stop her. So being mad at Daphne for the situation she is in seems a little bratty. 

 

I agree with you. Bay made the choice to take the blame. Now Daphne shouldn’t have let her (that was super selfish and she could’ve stopped her before the official statement)- BUT that was Bay’s choice. She can’t blame Daphne now because she didn’t fully realize the consequences of her actions. 
 

Ugh- I’m in the middle of season 4 (I had some fire stick problems so I’m behind) and I seriously love/hate these episodes because of how realistic they are. I don’t drink alcohol, and I’ve never blacked out, so I can honestly say I don’t know what it’s like to be so drunk that you don’t have memories of what happened the next day.

I want to say I appreciate how both Regina and Katherine were there to comfort Bay. Bay wanted her Moms. Travis continues to be a GEM! Just a gem. Y’all know I love Travis. I’m not surprised he was abused as a kid though- it does happen to a lot of deaf kids and disabled kids. 
 

We know Bay and we know her character (I’m not insinuating people of poor character can’t be victims of sexual assault- anyone can be), if she doesn’t think she consented, then she probably didn’t consent. I believe Travis- he said that she said the room was spinning and she wanted to lie down.....that indicates to me someone is not feeling well, not that they want to hook up. Her reaction after he confirmed they had sex, he’s all giddy and she looks like she wants to vomit (Vanessa Marano is a better actress than she gets credit for). Personally what we know of her history with Tank, he wasn’t motivated by a power trip or a desire to dominate/humiliate her- but I definitely think he pulled some mental gymnastics to convince himself that she wanted him. This woman didn’t want to have sex with you when she was sober and your girlfriend- but all of a sudden she’s game drunk??? Ummmmhmmm.

“I didn’t know it was about your permission.”-Tank....what the fucking shit????? What else would it be about????

And his attitude afterwards- you all know I’ve never liked his attitude (contrast this with how Declan acted in season 10 Degrassi for those who watched with me).  I’m not excusing his drinking either- it kinda takes coordination to get your penis into someone’s vagina- it’s not an accidental thing!!

I remember being a teen going off to college and my Mom & great aunts telling me about drinking etc- I was told to always set your sexual boundaries before you start drinking. Never ever leave your friend- ever. Not because being assaulted is ever your fault but because when you don’t have your wits about you it’s easier for unscrupulous people to hurt you. And in our society women are expected to be the sexual limit setters- women who want to engage in partnered sex with men, have to think about their safety in a way men who have sex with men and women that have sex with women just don’t. 

I feel awful for Bay. Just awful. 
 

From a storytelling perspective I like that we never actually saw what happened. 

P.S. I also wanted to say that I’ve never had any personal experience with rape or sexual assault. The grossest thing to happen to me was when the water delivery man kissed me on the cheek at work  (eeeewwwww). I used to think I was the majority, but the longer I live I hear so many stories of women and girls being sexually assaulted and it makes me want to vomit.

 

[sara416]

I'm not at that episode yet, but I remember reading about it when it first aired and how it was very well done in regards to opening up the conversation about consent and what it really means, as well as showing how confusing it can be for both parties when it is not clear and alcohol is involved because of much more how true to life this is than "guy jumps out of the bushes and rapes someone" storylines. I'm half looking forward to this and half not, because I was sexually assaulted in college and there was alcohol involved. I was awake and aware and did NOT consent to what happened, but I also know that the alcohol that the guy ingested that night made him feel as though he had permission and didn't really need it. We'll see how I feel about all this after I watch. 

[Scarlett45]

49 minutes ago, sara416 said:

I'm not at that episode yet, but I remember reading about it when it first aired and how it was very well done in regards to opening up the conversation about consent and what it really means, as well as showing how confusing it can be for both parties when it is not clear and alcohol is involved because of much more how true to life this is than "guy jumps out of the bushes and rapes someone" storylines. I'm half looking forward to this and half not, because I was sexually assaulted in college and there was alcohol involved. I was awake and aware and did NOT consent to what happened, but I also know that the alcohol that the guy ingested that night made him feel as though he had permission and didn't really need it. We'll see how I feel about all this after I watch. 

I’m really sorry that happened to you. 
 

Mary Beth was right- women do have to be smarter, but she was wrong  what should or shouldn’t we do to not “put ourselves” in that position? Not be alone with men? Not go on dates? Not walk alone? Not leave the house?? Not be born FEMALE because our very existence tempts men and they just can’t help themselves??? Travis didn’t do anything wrong- but I understand why he feels guilty, especially since he was abused as a kid.

 

Fifty years ago it wasn’t rape if you consented to the date “just unwanted sex”. It wasn’t rape if you were married to him etc etc, it wasn’t rape unless their was the “utmost resistance” or “the threat or use of deadly force”. We are moving forward but not fast enough. 
 

All that said- it’s not Bay’s responsibility to change the culture or be an example. If she wants to that fine, but her only responsibility is to herself. 

[luckyroll3]

I was not with Mary Beth trying to lay the blame on Bay. And I already didn't like her. Then she breaks up with Travis over some stupidness. Gawd, I can't stand her!

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

I was not with Mary Beth trying to lay the blame on Bay. And I already didn't like her. Then she breaks up with Travis over some stupidness. Gawd, I can't stand her!

That was a very low point for Mary Beth. She was so adorable in season 2 and 3.  What do you think that was about? Do you think they just wanted to lay ground work for Travis & Bay?

I continue to love what a great mentor and friend John has been to Travis. He’s really giving him the love and guidance he never got as a child. 

[Scarlett45]

Ok wait wait wait!!!! How did Bay’s sexual assault become about EMMETT??? He really had no right to make a movie about her assault without asking her first. I mean that’s just basic human decency, and he’s her BOYFRIEND. I’m not saying he’s not allowed to have feelings (Travis had feelings about the situation) but in no way do his feelings come before Bay, you know the actual victim. The. Actual. Victim. I 100% forgot Emmett was such an ass here. 
 

Ive noticed Bay keeps saying “what happened with Tank”, and it reminds me of my very close friend, she references her sexual assault as “that thing with Carl (not his real name)”- she didn’t tell me about the assault until years after, I knew they had sex but I always took it as she was tired of his wishy washy ways and not that he raped her, because she had to process what happened to understand that she was raped. 
 

Emmett was a total ass about it, but I understand why he and Bay broke up. Long distance is hard, and these kids are 18/19 years old! It’s rare you stay with someone you date at that age. We know Bay is truly depressed because this the only time I’ve ever seen her hair look awful. 
 

Mingo reminds me so much of Wilke. 

[sara416]

30 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

Ive noticed Bay keeps saying “what happened with Tank”, and it reminds me of my very close friend, she references her sexual assault as “that thing with Carl (not his real name)”- she didn’t tell me about the assault until years after, I knew they had sex but I always took it as she was tired of his wishy washy ways and not that he raped her, because she had to process what happened to understand that she was raped. 
 

 

 

I don't know if it is something we are socialized to do or if it is shame or what, but no one wants to say the word rape. It's uncomfortable, it's an ugly word, and it's very emotionally charged. It also might be partially not wanting to admit to yourself what happened. Mine was "the thing that happened in college". I've got a lot of thoughts about this two episode arc, but I was pulled away in the middle of the second episode last night. I'm now being a masochist and watching the shit show of a "debate", so I'll pick up later after I finish it. 

[sara416]

I thought that was really well done, and I now understand the praise that this got when it first aired. It showed that not all rapists are bad guys, and it is really easy to be a good person and make a bad decision. I love, love, love that Kathryn told Bay what happened to her and that she said that because it wasn't intercourse, she didn't believe it mattered. That was exactly what I went through with my situation. It wasn't rape, so it wasn't that big of a deal, right? Wrong. It took me a long time to let myself believe that it was a big deal and it wasn't my fault. One thing that Kathryn told Bay that really bothered me though was the scene when she and Regina were trying to figure out what happened and she said "Bay, if something happened, you HAVE to tell us." Nope. She doesn't. I also don't think that investigation should have gone through. For one thing, Bay is not a student and I honestly don't believe any university would go ahead with that. They would do as much as they could to ignore it. Making this investigation happen, with or without the consent of the victim, is re-victimizing. 

Mary Beth is right, but like you said, she is also way wrong. There are so many rules for women when it comes to how we have to act. Don't dress to conservatively, but don't dress slutty. Smile and be pleasant, but don't smile too much because then you are leading them on. It should be a reasonable expectation to believe that a person can share a bed with a friend and not be touched without their permission. It should be a reasonable expectation that a girl can want to make out with a guy and put the brakes on it. 

These episodes did a wonderful job of showing pretty much every perspective that someone can take in a situation like this. The internet comments, the people in the dorm saying she was asking for it, the ones who thought they should protect her, the ones who think it is no big deal, and even the over the top crisis center worker. There's so many reasons why women never report these things, and this is why. It becomes bigger than you and the thing that is YOUR business to disclose becomes public knowledge. 

I know this isn't all about me, but now that I am watching the next episode, I am even more grateful that my boyfriend at the time was infinitely more forgiving of me than Emmett was for Bay. I can't imagine what it is like to hear that the person you love is in this situation, but Emmett...just be there for her. 

 

[luckyroll3]

I just started my 10 thousandth re-watch of Veronica Mars and lo and behold, there's the actress who plays Daphne in a small role in one episode. And even more ironic? She's in the episode with a switched at birth storyline! It's the one where we learn that Mac and Madison Sinclair were switched, but the parents decided to keep them and the hospital awarded them each $1 million. So bizarre!

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, sara416 said:

I know this isn't all about me, but now that I am watching the next episode, I am even more grateful that my boyfriend at the time was infinitely more forgiving of me than Emmett was for Bay. I can't imagine what it is like to hear that the person you love is in this situation, but Emmett...just be there for her.

I’m glad you had a supportive boyfriend during that time.
 

I’m getting so mad at Emmett again. There was nothing to forgive Bay for- Bay was legally incapacitated (okay maybe you could say she shouldn’t have been drinking underage, but that’s it)- she wasn’t capable of signing a contract or driving a car and her body was used without her permission. I could understand Emmett being angry/guilty that he wasn’t there, having empathy for Bay, but dude she’s not your property! She doesn’t have to walk around guarding her virtue against people who may use her inability to consent to their advantage. If Emmett loved Bay as much as he claimed he’d be more empathetic.
 

But the patriarchy. Yup there I said it. 

[Scarlett45]

@sara416 I totally get why the Moms pulled the “you have to tell us”- my Mom would’ve said the EXACT same thing. It’s a Mommy thing- how can they help and protect you if they don’t know what’s going on in your life. And Mommies are bossy creatures.

Also- I do think Tank was a bad guy here. Now do I think he’s irredeemable for life? No, do I think he can change, YES, but based on how they developed the character I 100% believe he did some major mental gymnastics to convince himself Bay wanted to sleep with him. I don’t think he genuinely believed he had consent, just based on his damn attitude after he talked to her. If he truly truly thought he had consent and he didn’t, he would’ve not been such a defensive asshole! Personally I think getting kicked out of school was probably a wake up call for him and he will never ever try to do this again. A lot of men/boys are able to get away with this behavior and because the girl doesn’t want to report it (or reasons discussed above) they see it as a “victory” and keep doing it through the decades. 

[sara416]

I think Tank was the perpetrator and had a responsibility to ensure 100% consent. But I like that the show used a character that was liked and we had seen that he wasn't a bad person, just a person who made a bad decision. Because that's so much more true to life. I don't think the guy who assaulted me is a bad human, I think he made a really bad choice and, unlike Tank, took ZERO responsibility for anything that happened. People are not just good or bad, and I would hate to be judged on the worst decision I ever made. But if people like Tank can take responsibility, move forward and learn from what they did, and maybe help others to make better decisions, it says a lot. I don't think this would be a pattern of behavior for Tank. It's easy to watch a show where the character is someone we all dislike and then watch something like this happen (like Veronica Mars, for example), but the way the show treated this incident opens up a bigger conversation about consent and responsibility, and that's important. 

Also, that supportive boyfriend I had? He's now my husband. 💗 There are still some good ones out there, lol. 

[Scarlett45]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:59 AM, sara416 said:

I think Tank was the perpetrator and had a responsibility to ensure 100% consent. But I like that the show used a character that was liked and we had seen that he wasn't a bad person, just a person who made a bad decision. Because that's so much more true to life. I don't think the guy who assaulted me is a bad human, I think he made a really bad choice and, unlike Tank, took ZERO responsibility for anything that happened. People are not just good or bad, and I would hate to be judged on the worst decision I ever made. But if people like Tank can take responsibility, move forward and learn from what they did, and maybe help others to make better decisions, it says a lot. I don't think this would be a pattern of behavior for Tank. It's easy to watch a show where the character is someone we all dislike and then watch something like this happen (like Veronica Mars, for example), but the way the show treated this incident opens up a bigger conversation about consent and responsibility, and that's important. 

Also, that supportive boyfriend I had? He's now my husband. 💗 There are still some good ones out there, lol.

(bolding mine) How precious! Yay for love.

I do agree. My friend who watched this with me now has a son, and she and her husband definitely want to teach him about consent etc when he is growing up. The comedian Kev On Stage did a really good video about consent and what he wanted to teach his sons (I wish I could find it but I cannot).

Its breaking my heart to see Bay's hair a hot mess over Emmett.

@luckyroll3 okay I have a theory about Mary Beth, I think they pulled a "fat girl trope" on her, that she's very insecure. She was good with her relationship with Travis when she saw him as her social equal. But once he started getting really popular with baseball and had far more social engagements than she did, I think she felt like she couldn't compete so she ended it. If thats how she really felt then she did the right thing, because I am a Travis fan girl and I wouldn't want him to be bogged down by her attitude. Travis is a GEM, with a yummy body. The fact that he was so emotionally neglected by his caregivers and turned out so well is testament to his character.

[Scarlett45]

Lily is pregnant and the fetus has Down Syndrome like her brother. (Or he may have Prader Willy I am not sure they specifically said so). 
 

When this storyline first aired it rocked me to my core. As it did many members of the Sib support group I am in. I mentioned before that my sister is severally mentally disabled-she’s 32, mental age about 2yrs old, but she doesn’t have any chromosomal abnormalities or recognized syndrome- no medical explanation. Also no physical disabilities at all- for those that aren’t aware, even in the disability space it’s very rare to have such low cognitive functioning and no physical health problems.  
 

When a sibling has a severe disability, especially a cognitive one it effects the entire family. There’s often a notion that the “typical” siblings don’t really get it “until the parents die” well that’s fucking horseshit. Watch a toddler go through PUBERTY and tell me you aren’t effected (I just say hide your valuables). The world just isn’t designed for toddlers that are 5’9 inches tall and 300lbs. 
 

Of course every family is different- gender, birth order, economic resources of the parents effect the experience etc. I was very lucky- all the adults in my life worked hard to make sure I got attention, and economically we had a lot of resources but I was parentified a bit. My mom has no other biological family (all of my extended family is on my father’s side) outside of my disabled sick grandfather (who also lived with us)- and there were times after the caregiver left I had two disabled people on my hands with with a Mom who worked 80hrs a week (she’s an Ob/Gyn). Add in being the first born and also female (I notice boy children are only forced into caregiver roles if there are no typical sisters), a family of professionally successful black people where “you have to be twice as good to have half as much”, along with my Mom’s guilt- we went through some rough times emotionally. (Again puberty was not pleasant)

However I have the bestest Mommy ever, AND although my sister is financially stressful and labor intensive, she’s not emotionally complicated at all. Keep her clean, feed her, Disney+ and she’s golden- trust I’ve been so grateful during this pandemic that she can’t talk back! (Although her noises have been getting on my damn nerves lately)

I personally am childfree, but I know so many women in my situation fear being in the position Lily is in- I think they explored that in a realistic way. Lily loves her brother- but she KNOWS what it takes. She talked about stress on her parents’ marriage, her brother’s needs coming first (trust Lily I’ve been there!!), she discussed it and made the decision that was right for her.  I also 100% understood John’s reaction. People often think about the cute disabled child- having a child who may NEVER GROW UP, never work, never wipe their own behind, never tie their shoes, requires constant care and supervision. It’s physically and mentally expensive. Society loves to pay attention to disabled children, once they are no longer prepubescent society pretends like they dropped off of the planet. People really don’t understand until they have lived it.  I have so much respect for the thoughtfulness they gave the storyline.

I can say Lily will probably be a great Mom to Carlton AND any typical children (if they have them) because she knows what it’s like to grow up with a disabled sibling. 

They did an amazing job with this story line and I’m so very proud. 
 

My novel is over I’m done. 
 

P.S. plenty of women under 35 conceive children with DS and similar chromosomal disorders. ANYONE can have a child with a disability. You don’t have to be older, a drug user or “do something”. It just happens. My sister is 32 and my Mom, who’s an Ob/Gyn and intellectually knows better wonders what happened, and has “mom guilt”. She should’ve taken herself to therapy but she’s a 72yrs old black woman who went to medical school right after desegregation, yeah she doesn’t do therapy. She’s fine with me going though.......

[Scarlett45]

I really think they had no idea what to do with Regina after Angelo died. The problem is that they never had any friends for her- Katherine and John and each other, Katherine had writing, John had the car wash. Ivonne Coll (Adrianna) got the role on Jane the Virgin and Regina had no other friends. It was like what happened with Toby. 
 

But because Constance Marie is so pretty they just put her with good looking men. 
 

Why are she and Daphne going to check out Will’s Mom??? This seems so convoluted. 

[Perfect Xero]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I really think they had no idea what to do with Regina after Angelo died. The problem is that they never had any friends for her- Katherine and John and each other, Katherine had writing, John had the car wash. Ivonne Coll (Adrianna) got the role on Jane the Virgin and Regina had no other friends. It was like what happened with Toby. 
 

But because Constance Marie is so pretty they just put her with good looking men. 
 

Why are she and Daphne going to check out Will’s Mom??? This seems so convoluted. 

Regina did have Melody as a friend!

All the ABC Family shows from this period tended to just stick a character into a soapy romance story line to serve as filler, but the whole Regina plot with Eric and Will has to be the pure soapiest from SAB, kidnapping, drug dealing, and false identities, Oh my!

[luckyroll3]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

@luckyroll3 okay I have a theory about Mary Beth, I think they pulled a "fat girl trope" on her, that she's very insecure. She was good with her relationship with Travis when she saw him as her social equal. But once he started getting really popular with baseball and had far more social engagements than she did, I think she felt like she couldn't compete so she ended it. If thats how she really felt then she did the right thing, because I am a Travis fan girl and I wouldn't want him to be bogged down by her attitude. Travis is a GEM, with a yummy body. The fact that he was so emotionally neglected by his caregivers and turned out so well is testament to his character.

Well then bye bitch! Travis deserves better! But no, I hear you with regards to Mary Beth's insecurity. I would also say they built in a lot of self-righteousness into her character as well. She was pretty judgey about lots of things from her first appearance on the show under the cover of "oh, Mary-Beth, she's just so nice." 

 

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Regina did have Melody as a friend!

All the ABC Family shows from this period tended to just stick a character into a soapy romance story line to serve as filler, but the whole Regina plot with Eric and Will has to be the pure soapiest from SAB, kidnapping, drug dealing, and false identities, Oh my!

It was!!!!!

[Scarlett45]

Random thought- wouldn’t it make sense for Katherine & John to sell the HOUSE rather than the businesses? The upkeep and utilities have to be $$$, and the kids are grown. They could get a nice luxury condo somewhere and significantly lower their expenses. There I go being logical. 

[Perfect Xero]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Random thought- wouldn’t it make sense for Katherine & John to sell the HOUSE rather than the businesses? The upkeep and utilities have to be $$$, and the kids are grown. They could get a nice luxury condo somewhere and significantly lower their expenses. There I go being logical. 

The show would have to pay to build new sets, so we know that was never going to be an option.

[Scarlett45]

Garrett as portrayed by Nyle DiMarco struts by with his sexy ass and smiles and Regina says to Bay “I think you just got ready.” (To move on from Emmett)

 

Im dying it’s so funny! Look at that gorgeous man.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scarlett45]

Going through season 5- I don’t remember this storyline 100%, but I don’t have a problem with Mingo’s costume. It was a costume party, he dressed up as little wayne(an actual rapper) with a wig and clothes etc. he didn’t wear black face or anything like that. Mingo was fine. 
 

Cotton balls in the student Union not fine, assuming kids are stealing bikes just because they have brown skin and being rough with them isn’t ok. 
 

Personally I think Iris’ problem is that black artists like lil Wayne (who performs as if he’s in a modern minstrel show) are often the famous black people get emulated. She had no right to take that out on Mingo though. Mingo has a right to like lil Wayne (even though I think he’s a fool). Iris also had a right to move out and I understand why she did- it can be exhausting being in black and brown skin in predominately white spaces and I understand wanting peace in your home. 
 

I’m not surprised Daphne thinks everyone’s life stopped because she wasn’t there. According to this time line it’s spring quarter of the next school year. A lot has happened. 
 

Nor am I surprised that Daphne (like many people without a legal background) doesn’t understand that “free speech” applies to government censorship (although the government still has the right to limit speech, threats for example). The university as an employer does have a right to have employees follow a code of conduct. Mingo was an RA employed by the university supervising all students. I don’t think Mingo did anything worth being fired over, and I’m not offended, but the university may have an issue with it. 

[Katy M]

On 9/28/2020 at 12:44 PM, sara416 said:

I understand Bay's complicated feelings toward Daphne, but at the end of the day, it was her choice to take the blame and she gets all the consequences that go with it. I'm not saying she can't be frustrated with those circusmtances, because they definitely suck. But she made the choice to take the fall and Daphne actually tried to stop her. So being mad at Daphne for the situation she is in seems a little bratt

Falsely confessing to a crime is a crime, so she can just pretend the punishment is for that.

[sara416]

Still a little behind you guys because life gets in the way of my TV watching! I love love love that they had Travis admit to being abused as a kid. Boys are so often left out of the conversation and it is so much more prevalent among children with a disability. This was such an important storyline all around and I love that it happened. The show was able to cover all aspects of sexual abuse and assault without making it too graphic as well as showing how often it can happen. Well done, show. Well done. 

[Scarlett45]

On 10/5/2020 at 12:04 PM, Katy M said:

Falsely confessing to a crime is a crime, so she can just pretend the punishment is for that.

Yes you’re right. 
 

1 hour ago, sara416 said:

Still a little behind you guys because life gets in the way of my TV watching! I love love love that they had Travis admit to being abused as a kid. Boys are so often left out of the conversation and it is so much more prevalent among children with a disability. This was such an important storyline all around and I love that it happened. The show was able to cover all aspects of sexual abuse and assault without making it too graphic as well as showing how often it can happen. Well done, show. Well done. 

Absolutely. 
 

I am not done with Season 5 yet as I got sucked into Halloween movies with friends. Almost though!

Im actually looking forward to starting One Tree Hill in a bit. 

[Scarlett45]

I wish we had spent more time in Season 5 with the Kennish Vasquez family and having the girls adjust to life as young adults than these social issues on campus- which are important, and much more appropriate to a 22 episode season not a 10 episode season when they knew this was the last season. 
 

Luca and Regina- Luca served several tours of duty so he’s 25(ish), and Regina had Bay when she was in her early/mid 20s so she’s 45(ish).....his Dad was likely in his 50s so it makes sense he would ask her out. Just doing the math. 
 

Luca’s Dad was seriously inappropriate. If Luca does change his mind about wanting children***, he’s not Regina’s slave- he could break up with her. (Shocker) Also they are DATING, not proposing marriage. Why is it Regina’s responsibility to break up with Luca because of what Luca may or may not want in 5yrs?? Ugh so frustrating. 

 

Also- Emmett was being a little shit. Im sorry for what he's going through, but he lost Bay because he DUMPED HER and treated her horribly. Travis didn't steal his life, I am glad they made up though and can have a sibling-type bond, which I think is important for both of them. Again Travis was a gem.

*** he’s only 25, even if they spent 10yrs together it’s not as if his reproductive lifespan would be OVER at 35......

[luckyroll3]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I wish we had spent more time in Season 5 with the Kennish Vasquez family and having the girls adjust to life as young adults than these social issues on campus- which are important, and much more appropriate to a 22 episode season not a 10 episode season when they knew this was the last season. 

Yeah, I was not here for any of the race/social issue episodes. It was so clear they had no idea what they were doing and I was constantly wondering how many black people they had in the writer's room this season (my guess is zero!).  It was more exhausting than anything else. 

Then after being annoyed by that, I couldn't deal with the reappearance of Mary Beth.....and Tank.  

[Scarlett45]

18 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

Then after being annoyed by that, I couldn't deal with the reappearance of Mary Beth.....and Tank.  

I know. I was so mad that they had the fat girl be a judgmental shrew and then get with the rapist. 
 

Not that I think Tank is so horrid he can never have a girlfriend again, but we very rarely see fat women get to have healthy romantic relationships on TV, and Mary Beth and Travis were so damn cute. UGH it annoyed me. 
 

I think they just wanted a way for the kids to pick up back at UMKC and not have to deal with their previous relationships. 

[Scarlett45]

Fuck Travis’ child molesting uncle for showing is stupid face. I’m getting so heated. And fuck his parents (both of them) for not caring enough about their son to bother to talk to him. She was his mom. It was her job to protect and nurture him. “Why didn’t you tell me??” Selfish woman. I STILL CONTEND her sudden interest in Travis makes no sense. Was she just jealous of Melody? 
 

Now Travis sweetie you can’t punch people because they are idiots. You’ll end up in prison. And you no longer have the excuse of being a child on your side. I understand Toby’s parental instinct but dude you have a long life ahead dealing with bigots-Bay was right. He is a new parent he will learn. John gave Travis a very good advice- he’s got to work on his anger (although it’s justified) or he won’t have the full life he deserves- and Travis deserves the best.

This might be an intersectionality thing, but I’ve never been compelled to punch anyone because they were making fun of people with mental disabilities. I remember being a child and hearing an adult call my sister a variety of racial and mental disability slurs one time when she was melting down at the grocery store, my great aunt just told me to keep my head down and stand to the side that woman wouldn’t hurt us in the store. 
 

Ive been trying to increase diversity in my Sib advocacy work, but it’s a process. 

[luckyroll3]

Yo, they need to fucking leave Travis alone! (I haven't gotten there yet, but I hate when they mess with Travis.)

[Scarlett45]

Season 5 was a cluster fuck of random plots.
 

I would’ve preferred to spend more time on Matthew- so many young ppl don’t have parents or caregivers that care about them. Yes you’re legally an adult at 18, but in our economy there’s no way you can be self supporting. Also young people still need guidance and love, even if they don’t need legal guardians any more. Melody could do so much to help deaf teens in that position. 

 

As with the original run, I’m still a Travis fan girl, Emmett was a moody little shit, Regina got all the hot men, and I loved having the Sib experience represented on my tv. 
 

Off to watch a show that started out about Brothers & Basketball!! One Tree Hill- anyone game?

[sara416]

I was out of town for the weekend, and I have some crap reality TV to catch up on, but I'm in for OTH. It's a fun show to hate watch for me because some of it is just so bad. But I've gone through it several times when it was on SoapNet and I definitely came to change my mind on a lot of the characters over time, which shows some growth or lack thereof. Can we start next week?

 

[luckyroll3]

I'll tell you one thing, it wouldn't have been so easy to quick Travis off the team if Melanie was in town! She would have torn all three of them, the lawyer, John, and Katherine, new ones! And then tore Travis another one for not thinking.

The scene between Travis and his mom was gut wrenching! I'm still over here crying like a baby. 

Freeform has not been cooperating with me at all this last week, so it's taking me forever to watch this damn season.  Only one ep to go....

[Scarlett45]

On 10/13/2020 at 6:34 PM, luckyroll3 said:

I'll tell you one thing, it wouldn't have been so easy to quick Travis off the team if Melanie was in town! She would have torn all three of them, the lawyer, John, and Katherine, new ones! And then tore Travis another one for not thinking.

This is true. But Travis did assault the guy- in front of witnesses! I’m sure the baseball team has a code of conduct. 
 

On 10/12/2020 at 10:44 AM, sara416 said:

I was out of town for the weekend, and I have some crap reality TV to catch up on, but I'm in for OTH. It's a fun show to hate watch for me because some of it is just so bad. But I've gone through it several times when it was on SoapNet and I definitely came to change my mind on a lot of the characters over time, which shows some growth or lack thereof. Can we start next week?

 

sure I’m just getting started, given these seasons are so long every episode doesn’t warrant a post, but I have posted in the thread. I’m on episode 9 of season 1. 

[Scarlett45]

I saw this cute story on IG TV of Travis & Mary Beth! September is Service Dog Awareness Month. 

[Scarlett45]

I kept getting Youtube Ads for the new Elvis movie and realized that its our own Austin Butler (Wilkie). I know Austin left this show for a staring role in The Carrie Diaries, but I wish he had stayed, he was a great actor and the character gave Toby someone to play off of. I will check out the film when it comes to streaming.

[Perfect Xero]

 

[greekmom]

They are airing the episodes on Sparks in Canada. One storyline which they never did was a what if Regina and Angelo had both girls and it was John and Kathryn that lost out of raising either Daphne or Bay.

Would have made an interesting episode.

[Katy M]

On 6/29/2022 at 12:26 PM, greekmom said:

They are airing the episodes on Sparks in Canada. One storyline which they never did was a what if Regina and Angelo had both girls and it was John and Kathryn that lost out of raising either Daphne or Bay.

Would have made an interesting episode.

It would have, but how would that have worked?  We know how J&K got both kids, because Regina was an alcoholic.  And switching kids would have made sense.  But, I can't see a scenario where a judge would take both kids from the wealthy, practically perfect Kennishes and give them both to Angelo and Regina.  Unless they both died.

[greekmom]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:55 PM, Katy M said:

It would have, but how would that have worked?  We know how J&K got both kids, because Regina was an alcoholic.  And switching kids would have made sense.  But, I can't see a scenario where a judge would take both kids from the wealthy, practically perfect Kennishes and give them both to Angelo and Regina.  Unless they both died.

I'm not a writer but I am sure that the writers could have come up with some ideas.

Off the top of my head:

1. Angelo is a successful mayor while Regina owns an upscale salon. She isn't drinking. Meaning John is a washout baseball player and doesn't have the carwash. Katheryn is a mediocre writer writer of romance books. Since Angelo is mayor he had some judges in his back pocket who awarded them custody of both girls. 

2, Regina finds out about the switch when the girls are 3. She and Angelo take both girls (so kidnapping Bay) and run off and relocate elsewhere with different names. The girls are bought up like sisters with Angelo Jr born a few years later. Bay finds out about the switch and the kidnapping.