Years And Years - General Discussion

[HaaCHOO]

On 7/19/2019 at 3:55 PM, Pepper Mostly said:

People who participate in human subject research are usually compensated. 

I think he mentioned getting 300 pounds.  He was doing it for the money...desperately needed.

On 7/6/2019 at 4:38 PM, Starchild said:

On 7/4/2019 at 3:24 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

Again, though, I'm only 2 episodes in.  Maybe the raison d'etre for the husband will become clear in later episodes.

I'm guessing he's the one who told the authorities that Viktor was working when he shouldn't have been.

The question and the answer...right here.

[HazelEyes4325]

Yikes!  So much for the family supporting Viktor!  I mean, I guess Stephen was the only one who blamed him for Daniel's death, but...wowza.  Also, Stephen is the absolute worst and the show does not hold back in showing us that!  

So, now we've moved onto genocide...not surprising, but still shocking.  And the rebranding of concentration camps as an effective British invention (although Rook was not actually wrong on the history there) was chilling.

I still can't buy this trans-human crap.  I mean, I would assume that those interested in that sort of thing would be early adopters, but to alter their own body would lock them into one version, right?  I mean, I guess upgrading could be a thing but technology moves on and upgrades will only go so far.  And the people who are interested in this would know that.  Plus, the government paying for Celeste's surgery was especially creepy.  Doesn't that make her their property now?

[marinw]

Maybe Bethany will use her Cyborg status to get her family a huge amount of money.

Such a depressing show. Stephan is such a shit.

Edited July 23, 2019 by marinw

[marinw]

So is the monarchy still around? King Charles must be voicing his displeasure. I wonder if Buckingham, Kensington, and all the other royal properties are exempt from the spare bedroom law.

Scotland would probably use the chaos to give Rook a giant FU and declare independence.

Edited July 23, 2019 by marinw

[HazelEyes4325]

5 hours ago, marinw said:

So is the monarchy still around? King Charles must be voicing his displeasure. I wonder if Buckingham, Kensington, and all the other royal properties are xcempt from the spare bedroom law.

Good question...other than the mention of Elizabeth's death in episode 1, the monarchy has been absent from the show.  My guess is that it is still around and sort of kept as a symbol of British uniqueness.  What I can't quite get a grip on here is how classist this new system is.  The central family is firmly middle class, but how are the upper classes fairing?  It could be that they are pretty much exempt from all this.  Rook and her movement doesn't seem anti-class or a movement that would try to abolish the monarchy.

[Macbeth]

I live in New England where we have had a great many days of steady rain this spring. 

So with all the rains and the concentration camps - this feels like present day America to me.  For me this show is warning to Britain that they are in danger of becoming America.

It is a thoroughly depressing show and frightening on how it rings true.

Please someone liberate Victor from the camp.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Macbeth

[Pepper Mostly]

On 7/23/2019 at 7:38 AM, marinw said:

So is the monarchy still around? King Charles must be voicing his displeasure. I wonder if Buckingham, Kensington, and all the other royal properties are exempt from the spare bedroom law.

Scotland would probably use the chaos to give Rook a giant FU and declare independence.

As I was watching I was musing "I bet Scotland voted themselves out of this clusterfuck pronto"

I am quite, quite sure that the upper classes are exempt from the spare bedroom law. And if Charles is still king he's probably completely ineffectual.

Stephen is so breathtakingly awful that I cheered when he was humiliated by his old school chum. He's a pitiful, unprincipled, spineless toady. His glee at consigning Victor to an "Erstwhile Zone" was horrific. As was his emotional display at the scattering of Daniel's ashes. Is this how you honor your brother's memory?

Bethany has his number. So there's that.

It does make your blood run cold, doesn't it? The chipping away of freedoms, and people just accept and try to continue their lives. I'm thinking "why aren't they protesting? Why aren't they taking it to the streets?" Then I look at the news and I want to cry.

[IndianPaintbrush]

Wow, Stephen really is the worst. I loathe him.

Curious what Viv Rook meant when she said "They would have me killed." Maybe she's a Russian and/or American puppet? They're not giving us much information on what's happening in the US, so I'm assuming Pence is still president?

[Pepper Mostly]

So Daniel's ex husband was invited to the obsequies. None of them know, of course, that it was him who set events in motion by reporting Viktor. One could say that he's the one responsible of Daniel's death. If blame has to be assigned. Daniel was a adult who made his own choices. That Stephen can't understand that makes sense, I guess, since Stephen can't take responsibility for his own actions.

[burghgal]

What was going on with Rosie's neighborhood and in what way was her son involved?  I just couldn't catch why where she was living in was being "locked in" -- something about crime?  My dogs must've been barking during the scene it was explained and I deleted the episode on DVR but am now curious.  TIA

[IndianPaintbrush]

From what I understood, the government was dividing the city into 'checkpoints' because of dirty bombs and other criminal activity. Rosie lost her catering license because of a zoning change she didn't know about.

[HazelEyes4325]

8 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

Wow, Stephen really is the worst. I loathe him.

Curious what Viv Rook meant when she said "They would have me killed." Maybe she's a Russian and/or American puppet? They're not giving us much information on what's happening in the US, so I'm assuming Pence is still president?

I can think of 3 possible reasons:

1 - She knows that there is a large portion of the population who despise her and her office is the only thing that protects her from them.

2 - She realizes what she is doing is criminal and, if it discovered before she somehow grabs complete control, there will be drastic consequences

3- She had committed some crime or crimes to get into office and/or had taken a devil's bargain with some other power.

And, 4th possible reason:

 4 - A combination of all 3 above.

[Lemons]

8 hours ago, burghgal said:

What was going on with Rosie's neighborhood and in what way was her son involved?  I just couldn't catch why where she was living in was being "locked in" -- something about crime?  My dogs must've been barking during the scene it was explained and I deleted the episode on DVR but am now curious.  TIA

I think they were only doing it to what they called “criminal areas”  or in other words poor neighborhoods.  

[HaaCHOO]

17 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Bethany has his number. So there's that.

And there will be a LOT of that!

[goldilocks]

On 7/17/2019 at 4:02 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I did appreciate that the family came to Victor when they heard, showing that he's part of the family.

On 7/18/2019 at 8:26 PM, marinw said:

The Family are as imperfect as anyone, but I found that quite moving. It would be so easy for them to hate and resent Victor. Alas, they may in time.

It took no time at all!  😉

That was a surprising turn, that they all showed up to attack him, not support him. They acted like a bunch of 12-year-olds. 

[Popples]

Stephen is such a spineless weasel and total garbage and I can't wait for Bethany to call him out on it. I'm still scared on Bethany's behalf since the government paid for her surgery, there has to be a way for them to track her activities and see that she helped Edith break into that facility to get information on the "Erstwhiles".

Redness and swelling are normal after most surgeries, but something about Muriel's eyes is still bothering me. I just really hope the procedure was truly successful and doesn't end up backfiring on her.

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, goldilocks said:

It took no time at all!  😉

That was a surprising turn, that they all showed up to attack him, not support him. They acted like a bunch of 12-year-olds. 

I know! I half expected them to toss rotten eggs at him. I too thought they were on the way to give him support. I get that they were hurting, but what a vile thing to do.

[smartymarty]

8 minutes ago, ferjy said:

that they all showed up to attack him

Did everyone yell? We know that Edith doesn't blame him, as she's trying to help him. And apparently Stephen had been visiting him regularly as well, until finally deciding he blamed Victor for Daniel's death. I thought I saw Rosie crying in Viktor's arms.

[Pepper Mostly]

2 minutes ago, Popples said:

Redness and swelling are normal after most surgeries, but something about Muriel's eyes is still bothering me. I just really hope the procedure was truly successful and doesn't end up backfiring on her.

I don't think there are any red herrings on this show. Why devote such a big chunk of the episode to Muriel's eye operation? I'm worried too. She also moved herself to the head of the line by paying her last 10,000 pounds. So, like Stephen, who lost his house and all his money, will she lose her sight, and the last of her savings? Muriel is the glue who holds them all together. I do like to see that she and Celeste are finding common ground.

[Pepper Mostly]

9 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

I thought I saw Rosie crying in Viktor's arms.

You did, but she was screaming at him with all the rest when she first went in. Jesus. What a crew. I know that they were blindsided and grieving, but not one of them could refrain from blaming Viktor, who was sitting there shattered and guilty and also grieving?

[ferjy]

6 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Did everyone yell? We know that Edith doesn't blame him, as she's trying to help him. And apparently Stephen had been visiting him regularly as well, until finally deciding he blamed Victor for Daniel's death. I thought I saw Rosie crying in Viktor's arms.

Rosie rolled in on her wheelchair and made a beeline for Viktor, hitting him and shouting at him. She did cry later (looked more like Viktor crying in her arms). The others stood around crying but no one approached Viktor to hug him. I guess they made up later (except for Stephen). But the first impression was that they were all angry with Viktor and barged in to berate him. Poor Viktor looked bewildered. Stephen even said to Viktor (when talking to him in the facility, while the flashbacks were shown) something like “I keep thinking of that day, the things we said,” and then went on to a say that they were true and that it was Viktor’s fault. 

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Popples said:

. I just really hope the procedure was truly successful and doesn't end up backfiring on her.

I do too, because it shows something positive admist all the bleakness. The 10,000 pound bribe to go to the head of the line does make me uncomfortable, because this may be something that could happen in nations with  socialized medical care with long waiting lists for surgery. Such as my own country of Canada.

Edited July 25, 2019 by marinw

[Pepper Mostly]

Not one shred of empathy from any of them. What a bunch. I don't really like any of them. Well, Celeste is a fave of mine but she's not a Lyons. The Lyonses? Are crap, except for poor dead Daniel.

[ferjy]

10 minutes ago, marinw said:

I do too, because it shows something positive admist all the bleakness.

That’s what I thought the whole purpose of that plot line was. I hope they don’t go the opposite route and we find Muriel blind in the last episode! 

[ferjy]

49 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Not one shred of empathy from any of them. What a bunch. I don't really like any of them. Well, Celeste is a fave of mine but she's not a Lyons. The Lyonses? Are crap, except for poor dead Daniel.

It’s in the blood! I thought Daniel was just as bad. Not with Viktor of course, but he did leave his husband to run to Viktor.

[izabella]

36 minutes ago, ferjy said:

That’s what I thought the whole purpose of that plot line was. I hope they don’t go the opposite route and we find Muriel blind in the last episode! 

I was afraid the government might have implanted more than stem cells into her eyes, like some kind of tracking/monitoring device.

[Pepper Mostly]

18 minutes ago, ferjy said:

It’s in the blood! I thought Daniel was just as bad. Not with Viktor of course, but he did leave his husband to run to Viktor.

That was bad, but I think it was more "oh shit. the world is about to end. I don't love him. I love Viktor. And if the world is going to end I'm going to be with him". It was such an extreme moment and it seemed like it was all going to pieces. I don't condone it, necessarily, but I understand it. But good point, they're all pretty selfish and lacking in fellow feeling.

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, Popples said:

Redness and swelling are normal after most surgeries, but something about Muriel's eyes is still bothering me. I just really hope the procedure was truly successful and doesn't end up backfiring on her.

I agree...it seemed like she (the actress) was wearing some sort of contract lens.  I wonder if they've implanted something in the trans-human vein in her eyes. 

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Not one shred of empathy from any of them. What a bunch. I don't really like any of them. Well, Celeste is a fave of mine but she's not a Lyons. The Lyonses? Are crap, except for poor dead Daniel.

Yeah, this show is a great example of how TV shows can be successful when the likable characters (for me, Viktor and Celeste, sometimes Muriel) and the exception and the unlikable characters (everyone else) are the rule.

[Pepper Mostly]

3 hours ago, smartymarty said:

And apparently Stephen had been visiting him regularly as well, until finally deciding he blamed Victor for Daniel's death.

Spineless, unprincipled Stephen tried to swallow his rage and go along with the rest of the family, I guess. You know how when you have a toothache and you can't resist poking at it with your tongue even though it kills? That's Stephen, going to see Viktor. It killed, but he can't find forgiveness or empathy. Just the pain.

[Shaynaa]

Sooo....not to dredge up an old fight but does everyone see the point of mentioning the power issues in Gaza back in ep 1? Given the UK now is dealing with constant power outages?   This show has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer but the point they made with that seems pretty obvious..

It's been a while since I watched the whole series but I was thinking about Edith protesting Roe vs Wade being overturned in the USA and being banned from the country.  The way the newscast presented it, it made it like every person in the UK understood what "Roe vs Wade" meant.  Is it that widely known over there or was this just a tv thing?  It's a British series so I assumed it would be written with the UK audience in mind,

[marinw]

4 hours ago, Shaynaa said:

Sooo....not to dredge up an old fight but does everyone see the point of mentioning the power issues in Gaza back in ep 1? Given the UK now is dealing with constant power outages? 

The UK is already a leader when it comes to renewable energy:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/25/low-carbon-energy-makes-majority-of-uk-electricity-for-first-time

So in the 2020's of this series, the UK either backslides on this or the distrubtion grid is shoddy and incabaple of dealing with all the floods and storms.

Edited July 27, 2019 by marinw

[Anela]

Emergency alert sounds, and the first thing the grandmother does is put the kettle on. That's my England. 

I've only skimmed this topic, because I don't want to be spoiled, but I thought the woman in the wheelchair, walked into the room, too. I missed what happened to her: has she always been in a wheelchair, or did it happen over the course of the show? 

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, Anela said:

I've only skimmed this topic, because I don't want to be spoiled, but I thought the woman in the wheelchair, walked into the room, too. I missed what happened to her: has she always been in a wheelchair, or did it happen over the course of the show? 

She was always in a wheelchair.  I don't think they ever mentioned why, but I may have missed the explanation.

[dsteele]

Rosie has spina bifida, which she referred to with a joke in Episode 4. And Ruth Madeley, the actress portraying her, has spina bifida in real life.

[Anela]

12 minutes ago, izabella said:

She was always in a wheelchair.  I don't think they ever mentioned why, but I may have missed the explanation.

5 minutes ago, dsteele said:

Rosie has spina bifida, which she referred to with a joke in Episode 4. And Ruth Madeley, the actress portraying her, has spina bifida in real life.

Thank you. I've just started episode two, so I'm not that far in. 

[Pepper Mostly]

A lot of people who use wheelchairs don't use them all the time. Rosie has spina bifida and uses hers most of the time but she's clearly able to stand, walk a few steps, move from her chair to the sofa, and have sex with enthusiasm. 

[Anela]

32 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

A lot of people who use wheelchairs don't use them all the time. Rosie has spina bifida and uses hers most of the time but she's clearly able to stand, walk a few steps, move from her chair to the sofa, and have sex with enthusiasm. 

That's what I thought, I was just confirming something I'd seen someone ask about. 

[Enigma X]

I just started watching. I think at another point in reality this would not be so hard to watch. Right now it is just fueling my anxiety. The acting and overall story is interesting, but it may be tough for me to finish it.

[HerkyJerky]

GREAT SHOW!

[marinw]

Not sure what to make of the final episode. Edith being dowloaded or uploaded seemed far-fetched considering how realistic the rest of the show is. And, if current events are any indication, exposing a Head of State's horrible detention centers does not get that person removed from office.

That said, I did like how the early 2030's look more hopeful, and that the UK seems to be getting it's sh*t back together. That felt real.

I also loved Muriel's speech about how easy it is to blame everyone but ourselves for how the world turned out. So true.

Edited July 30, 2019 by marinw

[Bali]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 4:52 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

As for the thumbprint, I was wondering that, too.  Maybe it is just a widespread thing that people have them--sort of like a spare key.   I mean, it's a way for Celeste to access her husband's phone if needed (but, if it were that out in the open, I would think he would at least delete the texts from his hook up).

Or- plot hole. I think there are a lot of "OH COME ON" scenes in this. I watched the first 4 episodes. I couldn't stop. And at the same time, I wanted to because I really hated it. Conservatives bad, liberals good. OK. Bash me about the head with that info. And there really weren't any characters that I think I would enjoy hanging out with. They are always mooching off Grandma, but rolling their eyes at spending time with her. That annoying face mask with the baby talk. UGH! "I don't feel human." Hitting every WOKE trope, yep. I'll still watch the last 2 episodes, because I'm in it this far. And I managed to finish every episode of American Horror Story- I can do this. But  I'm not sure I'll be happy about it. 

And about Daniel- how did all of those people who were in different parts of England, and one on a bicycle no less manage to get to Daniel's flat at the exact same time? 

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 8:19 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I'm sure that was the case, but I still think it was a bonehead move.

I'm going to make 2 assumptions.  The first is that the affair actually had nothing to do with sex, but with Stephen's feelings of guilt and shame from losing his job, losing his money, losing the house, and having to move in with his grandmother (whom his wife does not like).  

The second assumption is that Stephen doesn't want to break up his marriage and I'm basing this on what he said to Celeste--that he was sorry, that it meant nothing, that there was no relationship, yada yada yada.

So, if those two things are true--especially the second--going to the woman's flat (I forgot her name) was incredibly stupid.  If he truly wanted to salvage his marriage, he went a long way to make sure that never happened by going to his hook up's place instead of his sister's or a hotel (if he could afford it).

I think that Celeste also did blame him for not moving the money at night, and that she might have been quite frosty to him ever since that point. I mean, she was fine with him working 5 jobs, getting medical tests done on himself (Which can actually be very risky), and all she ever did was type on her computer and complain. (I was going to say that there was occasionally noise- but really she just complained constantly). I know that personally, if it came to me working a second job- or my husband being a guinea pig, I'd be coming home smelling like French fries. But then again, I don't really like any of these people- so I'm not that invested. 

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 8:51 PM, legxleg said:

I think that he was doing it for money, as yet another job. There was some vague explanation that the UK had to do all its drug testing locally now that they weren't a part of the EU any more, but Stephan's goal was just to get some more money I think.

Yes- He mentioned that it was 300 dollars.

[Bali]

WOW! All I can say is thank GOD that is over! I made it. I feel like I deserve a medal or something. Gadzooks. Don't think much of humanity- do they? I really hate Stephen. Or Steven. Actually, I disliked both of them equally. And I'm sorry, I just don't think things are going to get THAT bad. This whole series was, "What is the worst possible thing that can happen?" Then it would just get worse and worse. And Edith at the end, "Oh yeah, well, we really didn't have anything to do with it." Whatever. Victor was likeable. Bethany was a weirdo that wanted to be a computer. OK. How old- exactly- was Gram supposed to be at the end of this? 

The scene with Viv Rook running at the end. Bleh. I just didn't care at that point? I guess that was supposed to be Edith "getting her"? So computer Edith is so powerful that buildings aren't square anymore? 

I MADE IT! 

[IndianPaintbrush]

6 hours ago, marinw said:

And, if current events are any indication, exposing a Head of State's horrible detention centers does not get that person removed from office.

That was my biggest problem with the finale - that there would be a big enough public outcry to actually change things. We've already seen in the US that an awful lot of people are complacent and don't care about anything outside their immediate circle.

Edited July 30, 2019 by IndianPaintbrush

[Pepper Mostly]

Right? The prison camp guards were shown to have some sense of shame-hiding their faces. I don't know if that would really be the case. Sigh.

I did mist up a bit at the end, though it felt both rushed and dragged out. I was glad to see Rosie take matters into her own hands and drive her truck through the gate.

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I was glad to see Rosie take matters into her own hands and drive her truck through the gate.

That was a fist in the air moment for me, even if Rosie was involving a child in her actions.

The confrontation between Celeste and Stephan was riviting. I like how Stephan realizes heis a shit, and strives to become less of a shit. He's lucky he only got three years for shooting a guy.

The end felt rushed to me as well. I wanted to know how the UK in genreal and the Lyons in particular started digging themselves out of the dystopian hole. What happens after a revolution is more important than the revolution itself.

Edited July 30, 2019 by marinw

[meep.meep]

well at least there was a semi-happy ending.  Good for Muriel for bringing everyone to their senses.  Even though she probably should have died long ago.

[overtherainbow]

Well I thought Muriel’s spiel was way too self-righteous, forced to the point of being borderline propagandistic and attempting too hard to be right ‘on the nose’. I rolled my eyes through it.  The thing with edith was ridiculous and unconvincing. They were having serious power outages just a few years prior and we’re made to believe now there’s this glorious technology that can download human consciousness to the cloud.

I disliked the family as a whole, I think. Bethany was just stupid, Rosie was annoying, Daniel was boring, Viktor was there for sympathy, Celeste was bland, Edith was basically the archetypal rebel, Stephen was contemptible but I did feel the way he reacted to Daniel’s death was fairly realistic; inordinate rage and a thirst for revenge for a tragedy outside one’s control are very human emotions, not everyone feels immediate empathy. They felt very two-dimensional overall. I get that the show’s premise wasn’t to delve very deep into these characters and was instead to mainly show them as small pieces in a big, complicated world where time passes and events happen whether or not they are around to see them, but I needed for more for it to actually be interesting.

Still, I’m proud of myself for sticking with it until the end. I think an excellent job was done showing the escalation of a politician’s amassing power and creating destruction, and the sheeple’s utter indifference to it. I liked the wittiness of it and the absurd bits throw in (Toy Story Resurrection, the butterflies dying out, Rosie’s reaction to the fake meat, that boy that seemed to be totally out of it and always had on a VR headset on in the background). It’s certainly not  a series I’d rave about though. Too woke, too much virtue signaling.

Edited July 31, 2019 by overtherainbow

[Andyourlittledog2]

Dear God in heaven that was a stupid ending. I was hanging on by my fingernails to get through the ridiculous last ten minutes of Edith and Bethany and the 'download'.  So there's a rebellion and suddenly the weather changed and the land was no longer flooded and people have jobs they can support themselves with again and all is well and good in Merry Olde England once more? 

The Lyons family were pretty much awful to a person except Celeste, I did like her. She's not a Lyons though so I guess she doesn't count there.  Bethany and her desire not to be fully human but a 'transhuman' was the saving grace was she? Without her and her fellow idiots the whole thing wouldn't really work. And then Edith goes full transhuman and gets downloaded so she can 'see' what happens next. Right. Because that would happen and being in a bubble tank at the mercy of those actually alive is such a grand idea.

This whole thing had interesting parts and some real points to be made but this rushed happy(?) ending was like torture for me to sit through. I only just kept from deleting it before the end because I'd spent five episodes watching it and was determined to see it to the end. I am proud of myself for making it but dear Lord that was an awful way to spend an hour.

[smartymarty]

I would have been much happier had they ended the series with Rosie handing her baby to Muriel, i.e., not that "wait a minute" part with Edith's brain downloaded into the cloud. Not only was that weird, it was quite boring to watch, and didn't seem to move the satiric theme forward.