S09.E07: Brunch Gone Bad

[Duke2801]

On 12/21/2018 at 7:50 PM, Kdawg82 said:

Ho-Lee-sh**!!! You serious??!! I've never heard this before! What a bomb-drop! That's Just beyond. I thought Tree conceived naturally after "juicy" became all hot and bothered by the table flip! She seems like she conceives easy naturally so wouldn't think IVF EVER! Specifically to "create" a boy!? Damn! That's some whack sh**! 

 

On 12/21/2018 at 4:18 PM, Dance4Life said:

Audriana.  They were trying for a boy.  They didn’t get a boy and refused to pay the clinic.  Then put that debt with their bankruptcy. 

 

The clinic went public with it when businesses were trying to collect money from the Giudices.

Some details are mixed up here. The “failed and unpaid IVF for a boy” saga is true, but it happened *before* she got pregnant with Audriana. She did conceive Audriana naturally. 

[Hockey Addict]

So...Tre didn't get what she wanted therefore the clinic didn't get paid. And what happened to the unused embryos? Down the toilet?

[Duke2801]

9 hours ago, Hockey Addict said:

So...Tre didn't get what she wanted therefore the clinic didn't get paid. And what happened to the unused embryos? Down the toilet?

She claims it was all Joe. Joe’s idea to do the IVF for a boy - and she just went along with it. And his decision not to pay (she claims she eventually paid the bill). Whether I believe her is another story. 

Not sure exactly how IVF works but not sure there were unused embryos? 3 males were implanted and they all failed. 

[Lynnlynnlynn586]

On 12/20/2018 at 5:33 PM, RHJunkie said:

I loved Marg's honesty about the brunch spread 'pick up the phone and call a caterer'.

Danielle probably claimed to have allergies because she didn't want to be on camera without make up, lol.

Dolores was being hella extra at brunch both with Danielle and Melissa. Not that Danielle isn't a psycho in her own right but Dolores didn't even try...and all of her attacks were unprovoked. It was like she wanted to make everyone uncomfortable.

While I don't disagree with the point Jackie was trying to make about wives controlling their husbands, I will say that effective communication is about tailoring your message to the person you're speaking to. Jackie didn't know Teresa well enough to know that Teresa has a list of trigger words that will set her off like a banshee and she didn't realize how careful you have to speak to Teresa because if it  isn't an obvious compliment, Teresa may find someway to make it an insult or attack against her...she has zero awareness or care about how she speaks to others but she's ultra sensitive with how others speak to her. If the point was trying to be well intended, then Jackie should have said repeated what she said with clarification that she wasn't attacking, insulting or speaking ill of Teresa or her family. By double down, she only made 'all about me' Teresa think that she was right in thinking that Jackie was attacking. I actually felt that Melissa did a disservice to Jackie. If she had stepped in and tried to explain what Jackie meant, she could have said to Teresa's face 'if I was certain that she was trying to insult you and Joe, I would of course say something but I think this is just a miscommunication between the two of you'. She brought it up too late at the dinner. However, I thought she really did try when talking to her husband and pointing out that he and his sister have the same kind of temper. Melissa can't convince Joe of shit because it's not an actual issue between Melissa and Teresa that she's asking Joe to mediate, she's asking Joe to sort out his own issues with his sister that involve their father and that is why Joe isn't giving in to Melissa...it's his own feelings that are caught up and he has to be ready to address it. He finally addressed it and no surprise, she's all good with Melissa now. Joe has always been the one steering the ship of Teresa and Melissa's relationship. Teresa idolizes him too much to bear the full brunt her anger on him. I don't think Joe yet realizes that when he and his sister go toe to toe with their tempers, Melissa is the one that suffers the most.

After seeing that rehearsal dinner, damn, even more clear why that marriage barely last some months. Also, that was one big ass complimentary shot.

I like Jackie she hit a nerve with Teresa 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[PhilMarlowe2]

On 12/20/2018 at 5:47 PM, ichbin said:

This is exactly why I think Jackie is no better than any of the rest of them.  When Melissa and Joe went to Jackie's home there was some mention about them not really knowing each other.  Regardless if Jackie's comments to Teresa are accurate or not, she is little more than a stranger jumping in with both feet where she doesn't belong.  

But this was the second time that Dolores and Teresa tag-teamed Melissa in front of the whole group (at Jennifer's house). If you're going to repeatedly go after someone in front of a crowd, doesn't the crowd at some point have a right to weigh in? It's not like Teresa was being kind and respectful toward Melissa. I think Jackie saw Melissa being ganged up on and had a perfectly reasonable instinct to take her side.

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, Lynnlynnlynn586 said:

I like Jackie she hit a nerve with Teresa 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I don't mind that Jackie hit a nerve with Teresa. This show needs someone who is willing to stand up to Teresa, but that said, occasionally, Teresa does have a point or two that is fair and reasonable...occasionally. My point about Jackie is that initially it seemed like an innocent attempt to help Melissa and defuse Teresa but Jackie did explain herself poorly and when it didn't go over well, she doubled down and became just as stubborn as Teresa but managed to keep her calm much better than Teresa. Without question, Teresa is mostly to blame here but Jackie shares a small part of that blame with regards to the ticking time bomb that is her relationship with Teresa. And I say this as someone who really likes Jackie so far. She seems down to earth, well spoken and not afraid to have an opinion.

[UniqBlue69]

I'm glad Jackie isn't trying to placate Miss Queen Bee Teresa by apologizing to her. What exactly should she be sorry for? She stated, matter of factly, that Teresa's husband is in prison, which is true. There was no judgment in her intonation or delivery; she didn't spitefully throw it in Teresa's face during the heat of an argument; hell, she didn't even drop this big, secret bomb since it's public knowledge that Joe is in prison so I'm not getting why Teresa is so affronted. Moreover, it's rich that Teresa takes umbrage with someone bringing up her "fambly" when her relationship started to sour with Caroline (as presented on the show; I'm sure there was more going on behind the scenes) because Caroline felt slighted that Teresa intimated the Manzo children were lazy and spoiled in her cookbook. So, Teresa, go have several seats!

Edited December 27, 2018 by UniqBlue69

[halkatla]

On 12/22/2018 at 3:57 PM, lezlers said:

I was listening to Margaret on a podcast the other day (she's really a very cool woman) and apparently Bravo didn't pay for the wedding.  Oh, and her and Danielle are no longer speaking.  She said Danielle was just as obnoxious off camera as on.   But yeah, she clearly thought the wedding storyline would make her a regular HW again.  Too bad so sad, crazypants Danielle!

I think his dad has always been a dick to him.  I mean, you saw the way he treated Joe at the Christening.  Joe was literally crying and his dad was mocking him.  Nonno is an asshole.  I don't blame Joe for not wanting to spend every second of his free time with him.  I did like the conversation Joe, Tre and Melissa had in this episode, tho.  Tre was FINALLY able to articulate why she was so upset, because she didn't want Joe to feel like Tre did after their mom died.  But Tre needs to understand that 1. It's not Melissa's responsibility to make sure Tre's desires regarding Joe are met and 2. Joe is not Tre and Joe and Nonno don't have the same relationship Tre and their mother did.   She's letting her projection affect her relationship with both Joe and Melissa and that's not helping anyone.

Tre is so obnoxiously self-absorbed, I think she´s the worst out of all the housewives everywhere. She´s also really, really stupid, which makes it worse. She´s unable to see other people as people with desires, she understands that she has feelings and wants and needs but I´ve never seen her actually acknowledge those things in others, ever.  She can dish everything out but not take a tiny little bit of criticism. Then again it´s useless for anyone to try to explain something to her. One day she decided to say sorry to Danielle´s daughters, so she could be friends with Danielle on camera again, but I don´t think she meant it except as a thing she had to do for her tv-SELF. Too her Joe is her brother so he matters, her parents matter and her best friends kind of matter, but even her brother´s kids and wife don´t matter at all when Tre wants something. It´s disgusting.

[RHJunkie]

17 hours ago, UniqBlue69 said:

I'm glad Jackie isn't trying to placate Miss Queen Bee Teresa by apologizing to her. What exactly should she be sorry for? She stated, matter of factly, that Teresa's husband is in prison, which is true. There was no judgment in her intonation or delivery; she didn't spitefully throw it in Teresa's face during the heat of an argument; hell, she didn't even drop this big, secret bomb since it's public knowledge that Joe is in prison so I'm not getting why Teresa is so affronted. Moreover, it's rich that Teresa takes umbrage with someone bringing up her "fambly" when her relationship started to sour with Caroline (as presented on the show; I'm sure there was more going on behind the scenes) because Caroline felt slighted that Teresa intimated the Manzo children were lazy and spoiled in her cookbook. So, Teresa, go have several seats!

 

I agree that Jackie's delivery seemed well intended and not intended to be judgemental but the way she phrased her example in an attempt to show Teresa reason (an incredibly hard thing to do), wasn't completely accurate and isn't the same kind of situation that can fairly be compared with ease but I do understand the logic of what she was trying to say and I agree with the sentiment, but again, the comparison wasn't completely accurate. To claim that a woman can control her husband carries the logic that a woman can either put ideas into a man's head OR change his ideas. Either way, a woman would have to be privy to the situation/issues in order to attempt any kind of influence on the situation. Melissa was privy to the issue at hand but by all all accounts, Teresa and Joe vehemently deny Teresa having any knowledge of the illegal stuff going on and had no idea that she was signing fraudulent documents. If Teresa supposedly wasn't privy to the situation, how could she have any influence on the situation to convince her husband otherwise and avoid the situation? Teresa has had several years of legal advice on the matter and by now, denying any knowledge should be second nature to her, it wouldn't take someone particularly smart, even as limited as Teresa is, to quickly see the implication in Jackie's example even if the implication was unintended on Jackie's part. Teresa didn't care about stuff like that because she's only receptive to her own feelings and making others accountable for how they make her feel but she has no sense of reciprocity in recognizing and being able to take accountability on her own for how she may make others feel with the things she says and how she behaves toward them. Because I think Jackie was well-intentioned, if she had known just 10% of the person Teresa is, I don't necessarily think she would have gone in with that particular example or said in the same way she did because she would have known it would have not been received in the way she intended it to be received. 

[lezlers]

8 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

 

I agree that Jackie's delivery seemed well intended and not intended to be judgemental but the way she phrased her example in an attempt to show Teresa reason (an incredibly hard thing to do), wasn't completely accurate and isn't the same kind of situation that can fairly be compared with ease but I do understand the logic of what she was trying to say and I agree with the sentiment, but again, the comparison wasn't completely accurate. To claim that a woman can control her husband carries the logic that a woman can either put ideas into a man's head OR change his ideas. Either way, a woman would have to be privy to the situation/issues in order to attempt any kind of influence on the situation. Melissa was privy to the issue at hand but by all all accounts, Teresa and Joe vehemently deny Teresa having any knowledge of the illegal stuff going on and had no idea that she was signing fraudulent documents. If Teresa supposedly wasn't privy to the situation, how could she have any influence on the situation to convince her husband otherwise and avoid the situation? Teresa has had several years of legal advice on the matter and by now, denying any knowledge should be second nature to her, it wouldn't take someone particularly smart, even as limited as Teresa is, to quickly see the implication in Jackie's example even if the implication was unintended on Jackie's part. Teresa didn't care about stuff like that because she's only receptive to her own feelings and making others accountable for how they make her feel but she has no sense of reciprocity in recognizing and being able to take accountability on her own for how she may make others feel with the things she says and how she behaves toward them. Because I think Jackie was well-intentioned, if she had known just 10% of the person Teresa is, I don't necessarily think she would have gone in with that particular example or said in the same way she did because she would have known it would have not been received in the way she intended it to be received. 

You're giving Teresa a LOT of credit here.  She is not intelligent enough to even consider the possible implications from Jackie's statement, she was just mad that Jackie said anything about Joe's "situation" at all.  Remember, this is the woman who won't even utter the word "prison."    And I'm not sure what Teresa wanted Melissa to DO, anyway, as far as controlling Joe is concerned.  Teresa has spoken with Joe directly about the issue a number of times, so is she expecting Melissa to do Teresa's bidding for her?  I doubt it, since Teresa would never admit that Melissa is capable of doing something she's unable to do.  Besides, Teresa has seen Joe blow up at her during these conversations without Melissa even being present so why is it suddenly Melissa's fault that Joe blew up at Teresa about the same situation?  How would she "hype him up" about something he's ALREADY hyped up about?  It's just absurd.  Teresa hates Melissa and has always hated Melissa.  That's really what it boils down to.  The only time she'll even call Melissa family is when she expects Melissa to stand up for her or do her bidding.  All other times Melissa is just "the girl my brother fucks."   I really don't understand how anyone continues to buy her bullshit.

[RHJunkie]

4 hours ago, lezlers said:

You're giving Teresa a LOT of credit here.  She is not intelligent enough to even consider the possible implications from Jackie's statement, she was just mad that Jackie said anything about Joe's "situation" at all.  Remember, this is the woman who won't even utter the word "prison."    And I'm not sure what Teresa wanted Melissa to DO, anyway, as far as controlling Joe is concerned.  Teresa has spoken with Joe directly about the issue a number of times, so is she expecting Melissa to do Teresa's bidding for her?  I doubt it, since Teresa would never admit that Melissa is capable of doing something she's unable to do.  Besides, Teresa has seen Joe blow up at her during these conversations without Melissa even being present so why is it suddenly Melissa's fault that Joe blew up at Teresa about the same situation?  How would she "hype him up" about something he's ALREADY hyped up about?  It's just absurd.  Teresa hates Melissa and has always hated Melissa.  That's really what it boils down to.  The only time she'll even call Melissa family is when she expects Melissa to stand up for her or do her bidding.  All other times Melissa is just "the girl my brother fucks."   I really don't understand how anyone continues to buy her bullshit.

I know Teresa isn't smart, but it's not that hard to connect that when someone says 'if you could control your husband, do you think he would be in prison right now', is using your own words to imply that you are the reason your husband is in prison. But there's a flurry of reasons why Teresa got upset and one of them being her irrational anxiety about the word prison. The other being that Jackie was intervening to defend Melissa and Teresa always want people to side with her in an argument. I don't think for a second that Teresa was accepting of Dolores' comments because Dolores has known the family for a long time. She was accepting of Dolores' comments because they in support of Teresa's point. If Teresa is smart enough to make up a reasonable yet BS excuse for why Dolores can interject on their family matters, then it's not a stretch for me to believe that she made a negative connection to what Jackie said.

I don't think Teresa hates Melissa...I think she's indifferent to Melissa. She can enjoy Melissa's company but if Joe and Melissa divorced and Teresa never saw her again, I don't think she would be bothered by it either. I think Teresa's feelings about Melissa rest solely on where her relationship with Joe is at any given moment. When she and Joe are good, she and Melissa are good. When she and Joe are fighting, she gets catty with Melissa. I've said it several times already, I genuinely believe that Melissa by default gets blamed for any family issues between Teresa and her brother because Teresa is just too cowardly to hold her brother accountable for whatever she thinks he's done wrong. That's why she makes it about Melissa not doing enough to make things better because it's easier for her to believe that Melissa is the one that's keeping her brother from her than it is to believe that her brother genuinely may not want to be around her all the damn time. Joe demonstrates the same behaviour toward their parents but instead, he first blamed Joe Guidice for causing the rift between him and his parents and now that his father is calling him out for not spending more time with him, he's blaming Teresa for putting ideas in their dad's head rather than consider and address the fact that maybe his father genuinely feels forgotten and dismissed. It's easier for him to blame Teresa than to think that his parents are disappointed in him. They have the same damn coping mechanisms and temper. Melissa is the only one in that trio that I feel bad for because she gets pulled from both sides with their crazy.

[jinjer]

Little fidget is a huge part of the problem, "My wife came crying to me that you said blah blah blah." That's one of the reasons that Teresa thinks Melissa can control Joe's feelings not actions. He's the one telling her what Melissa is saying/acting like. Tre's a big dumb mouth breathing neanderthal, but she knows that if Melissa goes home upset or calm, then Joey reacts differently. But I do agree that his feelings/relationship with his father is f'd up. "Go cry to your mama" is one thing I will never forget from the first christening episode. The old man never respected little Joey. 

Jackie is just another attention-seeking HO-wife who is latching onto Melissa for airtime/storyline. Because really her storyline without it sucks. Who cares about her boring family.  The only one who is even remotely interesting is her developmentally disabled brother. Her love for him makes me at least give her a pass as a decent human being. Teresa is no match for anyone who has even 1/2 a brain cell and can modulate their emotions. She's watched this show before. She knows that this crew talks about "going away" "going to camp" etc and will never say the word jail. By uttering "your husband in jail" she knew she was throwing a bomb for drama/airtime.

[ladle]

You guys, I'm not sure how to feel... On the one hand, yes, Melissa is fake.  But on the other hand, I didn't think her talking about not having strippers at her bachelorette was an example of said fakeness... And, on one hand, I'm so pleased to see someone calling Teresa out on her shit, because Teresa is horrible (and why does she think Melissa should be coming to her defense when Melissa is the one being attacked...by Teresa... just...what??  Whiplash.).  And Jackie is clearly "right" on the question of controlling one's husband.  On the other hand, I'm not quite ready to embrace Jackie with open arms, since it kind of rubs me the wrong way that she inserts herself into other people's arguments (and, yes, I recognize that's a prerequisite for the show now) and, as much as I loathe Teresa, it is really poor form to bring up someone's incarcerated husband to make a point.  Also, who gives a shit if Teresa curses?  There were no kids present.  Who is Jackie to tell another adult how to fucking talk?   

 

Also, Jackie is clearly smarter and better at arguing than Teresa, but Tre is the bread and butter of this show now so there will still be castmembers who defend her no matter what. 

 

My main takeaway is: Dolores, ugh, shut up. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by ladle