The Last Days of John F. Kennedy Jr. (ABC) - General Discussion

[UYI]

Airs Thursday, January 3rd, 2019 at 9 PM Eastern on ABC.

The 20th anniversary of the deaths of him, his wife Carolyn, and her sister Lauren will be on Tuesday, July 16th, 2019. Where has the time gone?!?!

Here is the trailer:

[Cobb Salad]

I’m not sure if I’ll watch as I don’t watch a lot of network TV but I’m wondering what JFK Jr. might have accomplished if he were still with us.  

[UYI]

I suppose there really wasn't much new information outside of the circumstances surrounding the plane crash itself, but I still thought it was well-done. And seriously, did a more handsome than him ever walk the Earth?

Sigh. :'( 

[hoodooznoodooz]

JFK, Jr., had a lot of charisma, charm and was very handsome.  

He seemed very humble and down-to-earth. 

I do think he seemed rather reckless and impulsive. 

CBK was extremely stylish, elegant and polished, but, in my opinion, was not actually very pretty. 

I read somewhere that she used to say horrible things to him when she was angry. 

[Dr.OO7]

32 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I read somewhere that she used to say horrible things to him when she was angry. 

I heard that too. I still remember one of those tabloid TV shows showing that huge fight they had in Washington Square Park. He was sitting on the ground in tears afterwards.

Yet another wrenching case of "If only". If only their departure hadn't been delayed, if only the weather were better, if only a more experienced pilot had gone with them. . .

[UYI]

1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

 

CBK was extremely stylish, elegant and polished, but, in my opinion, was not actually very pretty. 

 

This is more or less how I feel about her, too. I see people call her "stunning", like one of the interviewees last night, and I'm like, "really"? She had a beautiful smile, I'll give her that, but I wouldn't necessarily say she was a great beauty or anything. 

[Enero]

11 hours ago, Camille said:

Yet another wrenching case of "If only". If only their departure hadn't been delayed, if only the weather were better, if only a more experienced pilot had gone with them. . .

All those “what if’s” makes it painfully clear though that death was their fate. There was no other way around it unless they’d remained in NY that weekend and that was not going to happen considering the wedding that was happening. 

Sadly even if JFK Jr. had not died in that crash I still don’t think he would’ve lived long enough to reach his full potential and what many envisioned for him. The Kennedy men seemed cursed that way. 

Regarding CBK, I agree with others. She had style I guess if style is infinitely wearing your hair in a ponytail and wearing sleek clothes, but she wasn’t very pretty. She did have a nice smile though and I thought she and JFK Jr. looked good together. 

[Dr.OO7]

This article that marked the 15th anniversary of their death details how unhappy their marriage was. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/08/john-f-kennedy-jr-carolyn-bessette-divorce-drugs-scandal/amp

It's a little heartbreaking. It reminds me of how everyone thought Prince Charles and Princess Diana were blissful, only to have it turn out they were miserable pretty much from day one.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Camille

[Guest]

On 1/3/2019 at 11:10 PM, UYI said:

And seriously, did a more handsome than him ever walk the Earth?

The answer is no. I mean, I'm not even speaking hyperbolically, but every picture I've ever seen of him always took my breath away. He is honestly the most beautiful man I've ever laid eyes on (well, in pictures). 

I only watched the last 30 minutes or so of the show but wanted to shake the TV when they talked about all the mistakes he made that night. What an idiot. He had no business flying that plane without instrument certification in the dark. Such a waste. 

I am also under the impression that, while he was extraordinarily good looking, he wasn't the brightest bulb in the socket. 

[Tanichka]

15 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

The answer is no. I mean, I'm not even speaking hyperbolically, but every picture I've ever seen of him always took my breath away. He is honestly the most beautiful man I've ever laid eyes on (well, in pictures). 

I am also under the impression that, while he was extraordinarily good looking, he wasn't the brightest bulb in the socket. 

Most handsome guy I’ve ever seen, but nobody’s perfect!  He did seem to be a nice guy, though.

Regarding the wife - she wasn’t a great beauty.  Just goes to show, if you’re 5’ 10”, slim, well-groomed, with great clothes, everyone thinks you’re gorgeous!

[Ohwell]

I remember seeing some college photos of CBK and I thought she was cute.  She was a natural brunette, and looked like she had a bit more weight on her, especially the face.  So, after she married JFK, Jr. I guess she decided she needed a "wealthy, sophisticated lady" makeover and went blonde and lost weight.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

22 hours ago, Camille said:

This article that marked the 15th anniversary of their death details how unhappy their marriage was. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/08/john-f-kennedy-jr-carolyn-bessette-divorce-drugs-scandal/amp

It's a little heartbreaking. It reminds me of how everyone thought Prince Charles and Princess Diana were blissful, only to have it turn out they were miserable pretty much from day one.

Thank you for posting this link. I think this is the article I read years ago. If we are to trust this article, CBK could be pretty unpleasant. 

[Mountainair]

Just watched this and thought it was well done. I was a teen when JFK jr. passed away and remember being so upset! I read the gossip mags about him and swooned at all his pictures. 

My grandpa passed away this past summer and I stumbled across a book he wrote for all of his grand children about his life (I already knew he was a cool ass dude but this book solidified it). I learned that he was a licensed pilot and he spoke about how hard it was to get the instrumentation cert. and detailed all the hours and tests it took to obtain it. JFK, jr had no business flying that night. At all. I can only imagine the horror of dying the way the three of them did! 

[Dr.OO7]

I still remember having the TV on that day and hearing that they'd found debris from the plane, confirming what we were all fearing.

[emjohnson03]

The Kennedy's always fascinated me and I def wanted to tune into this. I didn't feel like there was alot of new information but my goodness, JFK Jr was HANDSOME. I mean wow. (I would say Matt Bomer has a very similar classic look but JFK Jr was THE the gold standard)

And I agree that he wasn't long for this world much longer, as something else would have taken him off this earth like a car crash. It just felt like he had some much unfinished business and I really wonder what he would think of politics these days though I gather very much he wasn't going to be the 50 year man in the Senate, though the Presidency could have been his because he would blow everyone away with his words.

I had NO idea about how bad their marriage had gotten, and I knew the rumors were swirling that it was rocky but goodness, that article is something else. It sounds like it wasn't long for this world much longer. 

It sure makes me angry that he went on that plane ride but it seems like it was written that way...that he thought he could do it and yet, he also knew life was fleeting. I felt maybe he felt both those things in every step he took, that he was invincible and yet he could die any moment.

Edited January 6, 2019 by emjohnson03

[Dr.OO7]

I watched a terrific documentary on TLC about their wedding. It was lovely. I had no idea how much effort went into pulling it off without the media finding out.

Despite the article that I posted, I keep reading/watching conflicting reports on the state of their marriage before their deaths. Some say that contrary to what that article has, they were NOT separated, or at the very least, were trying to work things out. Others deny almost everything in it, claiming that there was no infidelity or drug use on either part and that she was a lovely person, not the harridan that's been described by others.

I have to laugh everytime I read that they hoped that their wedding would decrease public interest in their relationship. Um, NO. Jeez, the DAY they got back, the press was hounding them about whether or not she was pregnant.

[WendyCR72]

I have also been fascinated by the Kennedys since I was a teen (in the pre-internet '80s!). So much so, I inhaled books about them from my local library. (Remember those? Yeah, I was a bookworm nerd!) Sometimes I really do wonder if a Kennedy Curse was real. Besides JFK, Jr., we know what happened to his father and Uncle Bobby. His Uncle Joe was killed in an exploding plane in WWII. His Aunt Kathleen was killed with her husband, ironically, in a plane crash. His Aunt Rosemary, as is known, had a botched lobotomy unbeknownst to the family except Joe, which led to her confinement in some home (and reports had her as charming and just a wee bit slower than her siblings prior; what her father did to her was unconscionable, IMO!). Ted had Chappaquiddick and all that ensued thereafter...

Of course, you may say nature fought back when Joe spent his final years basically mute and disabled via a massive stroke.

But even the later generations, besides JFK, Jr., struggled. RFK's son, David, saw his father murdered on TV, fell into drugs, and died in 1984. One of Ted Kennedy's sons lost a leg to cancer. William Kennedy Smith, enough said there. And Christopher Lawford, despite beating drug addiction early on and having a decent career as an actor, died fairly young of a heart attack.

This documentary about JFK, Jr. really did not have much new. But, as I said, it renewed my wondering if such a curse was real, after all. By nature, I'm usually pretty skeptical. But in this case...

I just wonder.

[Dr.OO7]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have also been fascinated by the Kennedys since I was a teen (in the pre-internet '80s!). So much so, I inhaled books about them from my local library. (Remember those? Yeah, I was a bookworm nerd!) Sometimes I really do wonder if a Kennedy Curse was real. Besides JFK, Jr., we know what happened to his father and Uncle Bobby. His Uncle Joe was killed in an exploding plane in WWII. His Aunt Kathleen was killed with her husband, ironically, in a plane crash. His Aunt Rosemary, as is known, had a botched lobotomy unbeknownst to the family except Joe, which led to her confinement in some home (and reports had her as charming and just a wee bit slower than her siblings prior; what her father did to her was unconscionable, IMO!). Ted had Chappaquiddick and all that ensued thereafter...

Of course, you may say nature fought back when Joe spent his final years basically mute and disabled via a massive stroke.

But even the later generations, besides JFK, Jr., struggled. RFK's son, David, saw his father murdered on TV, fell into drugs, and died in 1984. One of Ted Kennedy's sons lost a leg to cancer. William Kennedy Smith, enough said there. And Christopher Lawford, despite beating drug addiction early on and having a decent career as an actor, died fairly young of a heart attack.

This documentary about JFK, Jr. really did not have much new. But, as I said, it renewed my wondering if such a curse was real, after all. By nature, I'm usually pretty skeptical. But in this case...

I just wonder.

SOMETHING was going on. The very reason Jackie didn't want him taking flying lessons was because of the Kennedy's bad history with planes--and it came true!

[suomi]

JFK Jr's death just about did me in; I was 13 when he saluted his father's coffin. The kicker is that his 3rd birthday party was held as scheduled, the day of the funeral.

RFK Jr was addicted to heroin and his 1984 guilty plea to felony possession of heroin (age 30)  insured that he would never run for office. As mentioned above by WendyCR72, his brother David overdosed (age 28) in 1984. Their brother Michael (age 39) died when he skiied into a tree while playing football on skis on New Year's Eve in 1997. 

John Jr had dyslexia and ADHD; he was impulsive, made poor decisions and thrived on pushing boundaries. Somewhere in the run-up to the flight, someone who knew how inexperienced he was mentioned the visibility to him and he told them he was flying with an instructor as co-pilot. (He passed his written instruments test but had not taken the physical test). He had no intention of having an experienced co-pilot aboard and he knew enough to lie about it. 

He crashed his paraglider three weeks earlier, and broke his ankle. The cast was removed the day before the fatal flight and he was visibly limping. 

The record shows that he flew along the coast at 5600 feet until he reached a visual to guide him across the water to the Vineyard. At that visual the plane was tracked at 2500 feet, it dropped 300 feet in 14 minutes and then dropped 1100 feet in 14 seconds. They were aware of what was happening. 
 
There are two categories of Kennedy deaths and JFK Jr's falls in the category of addictions and/or poor decisions that risk everything. Poor Carolyn. Poor Lauren. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by suomi

[Dr.OO7]

4 hours ago, suomi said:

John Jr had ADHD;

I suspected as much, watching the biography about him.

4 hours ago, suomi said:

They were aware of what was happening. 

That breaks my heart. I'd always hoped they were too disoriented to realize.

[Dr.OO7]

6 hours ago, suomi said:

Poor Lauren. 

Poor Bessette family. Losing TWO daughters at once? And poor Lauren's sister, losing her twin.

I only just read this article about Lauren Bessette, very accurately described as a "footnote". The fact that it took twenty years for something to be published about her is a testimony to that. She was a very interesting person herself.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a28188303/lauren-bessette-carolyn-kennedy-sister-facts/

Edited July 22, 2019 by Camille

[Angeltoes]

Quote

Aunt Rosemary, as is known, had a botched lobotomy unbeknownst to the family except Joe, which led to her confinement in some home 

Rose Kennedy's secretary wrote a book and said that Rose rarely went to see Rosemary.  The secretary went with her on one of the few times that she did.  Rosemary took one look at Rose and started screaming bloody murder and wanted nothing to do with her.  Even with her mind the way it was, Rosemary knew that Rose had failed her as a mother.  Rose supposedly said,"Oh, Rosemary, what did we do to you?"

[DanielleBowden]

On 7/20/2019 at 7:00 PM, Camille said:

I watched a terrific documentary on TLC about their wedding. It was lovely. I had no idea how much effort went into pulling it off without the media finding out.

Despite the article that I posted, I keep reading/watching conflicting reports on the state of their marriage before their deaths. Some say that contrary to what that article has, they were NOT separated, or at the very least, were trying to work things out. Others deny almost everything in it, claiming that there was no infidelity or drug use on either part and that she was a lovely person, not the harridan that's been described by others.

I have to laugh everytime I read that they hoped that their wedding would decrease public interest in their relationship. Um, NO. Jeez, the DAY they got back, the press was hounding them about whether or not she was pregnant.

I caught this doc on demand last night.  At first I was conflicted by their close friends sharing something they both went to great lengths to keep private.  However, I found it really lovely.  It was clearly a special event and the love on that porch during the rehearsal and in the chapel was palpable.  I find myself haunted by the image of their dance and the poem Senator Kennedy shared at the wedding.  Truly a tragic story.  May they rest in peace.

[msrachelj]

On 1/4/2019 at 9:25 AM, Camille said:

I heard that too. I still remember one of those tabloid TV shows showing that huge fight they had in Washington Square Park. He was sitting on the ground in tears afterwards.

Yet another wrenching case of "If only". If only their departure hadn't been delayed, if only the weather were better, if only a more experienced pilot had gone with them. . .

IF only he had married Daryl Hannah instead of listening to his mother who thought she wasn't good enough, so I heard.

Edited August 9, 2019 by msrachelj
edit

[Dr.OO7]

On 7/20/2019 at 11:06 PM, WendyCR72 said:

But, as I said, it renewed my wondering if such a curse was real, after all

The recent deaths of yet another two Kennedys makes me wonder again.

I don't know what to think. It's unbelievable that one single family, as big as it is, should go through so much tragedy.

[tres bien]

On 4/19/2020 at 7:16 PM, Camille said:

The recent deaths of yet another two Kennedys makes me wonder again.

I don't know what to think. It's unbelievable that one single family, as big as it is, should go through so much tragedy.

I've thought the same thing. But then wondered if I only think that because we don't hear about the tragic stories that happen to "regular" families.