Tidying Up With Marie Kondo - General Discussion

[Token]

8 hours ago, Margo Leadbetter said:

Woo boy, where to begin. I will admit at the outset that I’m not a Marie Kondo fan. I get that she’s helped thousands of people but I’m not one of them. I began decluttering and minimizing a year ago (probably got rid of close to 80% of my belongings, useless, duplicate, never used or worn-out stuff, and I couldn’t be happier) and when I started the process I did a lot of reading. Her book was one of the first—I listened to the audiobook and the narrator was one of the best I’ve ever heard—and my main takeaway was that she needed help, stat. Throwing away her family members’ possessions without their permission? Spending recess inside the classroom tidying up the supply closet rather than join her classmates on the playground? TEARING PAGES OUT OF BOOKS AND THROWING THEM OUT?!? That’s not normal, that’s obsessive. I was still interested in checking out the show, if only to see her process in real life. Three episodes in and I’m still not a fan. For one thing, if she’s on-screen for 10 minutes total, that’s a lot. She giggles, drops a couple of little airy-fairy comments about sparking joy and thanking your stuff, giggles some more and then disappears only to pop back in a couple of times, still giggling, to discover that putting junk in little boxes and following her folding method has saved a marriage, kept the kids from a life of drugs and debauchery and possibly cured cancer. It’s way too simplistic and free of substance. She never seems to address the emotional aspects of decluttering (I remember Peter Walsh on Clean Sweep and how he would gently confront people and get them to realize that getting rid of things didn’t mean getting rid of the memories and meaning behind them). But even if she did try to address those things, the language barrier would be a huge impediment. It’s not easy opening up the emotional floodgates when you’re filtering it through a translator. The biggest no for me though, was that in the end, the afters didn’t look much different from the befores. Yes, the people did get rid of a lot but even so, they ended up just organizing their still-overwhelming clutter, which is kind of a no-no in decluttering/minimizing circles. Yes, she’s non-threatening, cute and adorable, hopping around and giggling like a pre-teen, and I get that a lot of people respond to that approach but she’s not for me. I got far more out of Fumio Sasaki’s “Goodbye Things” than I ever could from Marie Kondo. Of course, YMMV. :D

But I think that's the main problem with this show.  Whoever created it clearly wanted a typical American reality show, so they booked all these fucked up people who clearly need therapy.  But that's not what Marie Kondo is about at all.  She's not a clinical psychologist whose specialty is hoarders.  She's a self-taught tidier.  She likes to tidy up.  That's the name of her book.  The people brought on for this show were fairly inappropriate.  It's not fair to blame her for that.

6 hours ago, jennylauren123 said:

You said it. And to be more adorable, don't forget speaking in a vocal fry, using the word "babe" to shut your husband up, wearing jeans with huge holes in the knees, and, when uncertain (or when just wanting to appear uncertain), coyly putting your fingers up to your mouth. Sheesh. I know I'm showing my age here, but I can't stand trends like posing with your feet cutely turned in (when you're not even pigeon-toed). Hate all the damn cuteness. This is not what our feminist predecessors fought for.

I think I love you!!!  lol  That woman really did have so many annoying habits!

[atlantaloves]

I agree there needs to be an entire episode of her folding and organizing skills.  I have looked on youtube for them, but honestly I'll never do that with my tee-shirts, let's face it.  I have used her method for storing socks and folding them however, and it is a life saver.  I am lucky if anything I wash makes it to the drawers even semi folded. Hell, I am lucky when I ever do a couple of loads of laundry, ha.  I hate having to to to a washateria, oh poor Mrs. Babe with two washers and dryer in her house and a gal that comes in to do hers.  GIVE ME A BREAK. 

[Slovenly Muse]

I NEVER watch reality TV, but Marie Kondo's book changed my life when it first came out, and I couldn't resist seeing her in action!

I agree that the Friend family was super annoying and a poor way to start the series, and I do wish they had explained the reasoning behind Kondo's method more thoroughly for people who hadn't read her book, but as the series went on I really started appreciating what it was doing well.

For one thing, this show is not the typical Hoarders-style voyeuristic exploitation fare, where people are really sick and for some reason getting therapy on TV for us to gawk at. These people are just not happy, and need some help tidying. Marie's job isn't to come in and counsel them about their relationship, or force them to let go of treasured possessions, or makeover their whole home for them, or judge whether they are right or wrong to keep this or get rid of that. She wants them to be happy, and she's showing them how to do the work for themselves that will help them figure out what is right for them. These families, even the more extreme-looking cases like the lady with all the nutcrackers, or the guy with all the sneakers, they're not really hoarders, they're not sick. They just have a lot of stuff and they're having a hard time getting rid of it, which is totally normal for a lot of people, especially in the US where homes are larger than in countries with higher population density. I lived like that for ages (and still do sometimes, I admit). We might live in a bigger space than we strictly need, and we end up filling it with stuff, because it's natural to expand into the space you occupy. We get attached to stuff because it used to be important to us, or there are memories connected with it, or because having a house full of stuff gives us the illusion that our lives are also full - it's completely normal (though obviously not desirable) to live in clutter like these families do. But this isn't an intervention - these people know they have too much stuff, they want to tidy it up, and they just need some help with a structured process. Marie isn't advising them to keep or get rid of individual items, or judging or pressuring them, just helping them understand for themselves what items actually bring them happiness, and what is just junk. And what I loved about the series was that eventually, everyone got it, and they all got it for themselves. The guy who was having a terrible time getting rid of stuff, holding that old mailbox in his hands, decided that even though it was a good memento of the past, it wasn't something he needed in his future, and that was a turning point. Once everyone experienced how good it felt to unburden themselves of stuff they didn't need, and how good it felt to see space opening up in their homes, the process just rolled downhill to the end. People (like me) who like collecting things don't often get to experience the joy of getting rid of things (usually it's someone else trying to get rid of your stuff, which just makes you dig your claws in harder), but once we do, it really is a life-changer, and it really is easier to keep your home in order once you get how good it feels to have a place for everything, and to have a space you can feel proud to show off to friends and family. I just enjoyed seeing regular, messy people get to experience that.

5 hours ago, candle96 said:

One of the more crazy suggestions from that book that I forgot about until my friend reminded me last night: when you come home every day, empty out your purse or bag so it can "rest" for the night. And put all the shit in your bag away, out of sight. So then you can load it all again the next morning ??? That would add like 10 minutes to my morning routine, and I'm already usually running late. No thanks. I wonder how many of these folks did that. 

Kondo is so kooky and delightful - I love that her techniques are a little bonkers! From greeting the house to letting handbags "rest" to expressing gratitude to items before discarding them - obviously this is not for the good of the object itself, just a way to shift the way you think about the items you use. I don't use the handbag suggestion, and part of me thinks it's just a better technique for people who have multiple purses and might not use the same one every day - it's easier to cycle through bags when your stuff is out of the old bag and ready to be thrown into the new one on your way out the door. But the rest of me knows that this is actually a very sensible suggestion that I SHOULD be doing, especially because I use the same bag every day! I accumulate so much crap in my bag, and I forget it's there and don't notice it until I'm somewhere pulling out my wallet and wondering why it won't fit back in properly, and of course I can't deal with my junk when I'm out and about. If I opened my bag and confronted what was inside it every day at home, it would be SO much tidier and easier to use. But ultimately a bit too labour-intensive for the reward.

And expressing gratitude to items - I love this. Obviously the shirt doesn't care if you thank it. It's just a way of giving yourself a moment of closure with something before you get rid of it. It does a lot of people good to "say goodbye" to something they are having a hard time parting with, or accepting that something they loved so much they wore it completely out will never again give them that same enjoyment, or maybe getting rid of clothes they've never worn or books they haven't read - how do you get rid of something that you haven't even used yet? "Thanking" the item is just a way of accepting that it's done all it's going to do for you, and releasing yourself from the obligation to eventually wear it, or read it, or do something with it to justify having bought it.

I didn't LOVE this show, but I did find it strangely compelling, even if only because it reminded me of how good it felt to "Kondo" my own apartment. I liked that it was low-stakes, non-judgmental, and not voyeuristic to the point of being exploitative. I also liked how universal it was - everyone has to figure out how to manage their stuff and their space. Watching people figure it out was kind of soothing and rewarding. I liked it!

[Token]

I think we all need a bit more gratitude, for people and things, so I love that Marie Kondo is so big on expressing thanks.  I think we tend, in the West, to take a lot for granted.

[Token]

I forgot about the guy with all the sneakers!!!  Dude, you have a kid on the way.  Grow up!  

I find the shoe guy and baseball card guy weird.  Why do you need hundreds of boxes of things that you never touch?  You don't touch them, you don't look at them.  What's the point?  I could never have boxes full of crap that I never touch in my home.  Such a waste.

[BetyBee]

The one about the widow was both heartbreaking and uplifting.  You could see the burden lifting from her when she finally released her late husbands clothes.  She knew she was ready for that.   

[Butless]

On 1/3/2019 at 11:03 AM, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Totally fair question. Marie should have asked about her daily and weekly routines. I think parents and kids both benefit from structure and routine.  Pre-school, going to the park, playtime, lunch, naptime/quiet time, etc.  And for mom, putting a load of laundry in, at least once a day!

As for dad, even if he is working 50 - 60 hours a week, I would hope that he spends at least one hour a day with the kids, perhaps at bathtime and/or bedtime. That would give mom a chance to do the dishes.

Bottom line for me though, is that if you absolutely hate doing something, AND you have enough money to pay someone to do it, go ahead and pay someone. Isn't that cheaper than going to counseling or to a divorce attorney?  

I cant stand parents that let their kids dictate every moment of the day, which it looks like that mother does. And I hate all her "Time out" and "babe" bullshit. But that dad is a complete asshole. Using the plural noun about what they can do , when he means what _she_ should be doing.  The way she looks to him when she tries to explain how she has no time in the day,  and his smug condescending demeanor, just seals the deal that most likely doesnt listen to her at all, and probably gaslights her.  Men almost always make a bigger deal of what their workweek is like, too, in my experience. They might be away from the house more, but few and far between work so hard at their jobs. Men on the whole  do less than women, even in the workplace, and get rewarded more. Get paid more, rise higher more, get more people to delegate their work to, are  invited to socializing more, etc. So this guy is full of shit. How  many loads of laundry does he do a week? Ill tell you; almost 100% sure, NONE.  So fuck him and his expectations, and judgmental attitude.  She's someone I would never want to be around, ever, but he's a complete asshole, and can go fuck himself.

[Butless]

On 1/3/2019 at 6:13 PM, atlantaloves said:

Oh man, can I just say that the "babe" couple will be divorced within two years. He can't stand her.  (and we can't either) And what is it with breast feeding a child who speaks in more complete sentences than you do Mrs. Babe?

Again: he is an asshole. I dont care how exasperating she  is, he's sitting there like a judgmental asshole and being smug and creepy. Never making eye contact with his wife. And then inexplicably saying she has great eyes in a way  like he was prompted to say anyhting positive about her . I hope that was thee case, cause its better than how it comes off. Which is to say, he seems like he's saying, 'Yeah I hate hte ugly bitch. Her only redeeming value is I thought she had great eyes, and thats how she hooked me. Only now I see what a horrible looking reptilian she is. And a slob, to boot.'

That guys a lazy ass.  Under 50 and youve got that fleshy face?  then you sit around a lot, and probably drink.  They were made for one another Ugh.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Butless

[Butless]

On 1/4/2019 at 8:50 PM, atlantaloves said:

Her herpes lips bothered me even more than her horrible grammar. Every 10 minutes her lips had more rot on them....oh the stress of laundry! 

Was that herpes, or just a shitload of moles? Being generous,here.

Why is she so stressed out, when she obviously thinks she belongs on our TVs? This being the second reality show that sshe's been on.  Honey, take a seat. Live your best life inprivate,  and stay off our TVs from now on.  You are sad; get yo shit together!

[Butless]

On 1/4/2019 at 9:10 PM, ombelico said:

I've only watched the first episode so far, and while Marie seems very sweet and delightful, I honestly didn't think that the Friend family's house was in all that bad of shape, to the point where they would need to hire an outside consultant to help them tidy up and organize (although I realize the primary motivation in this case was to be part of a TV show). Their living room looked fine, the kids' play room wasn't even all that messy, and the main issue just seemed to be Rachel's dislike of doing laundry (for which she already has someone hired to help)? Basically all they did was a spring cleaning and throwing out of old clothes and toys. I just didn't get the idea that tidying up their house was really going to be all that life changing for this family, since it didn't seem like there was that big of a change beyond emptying out the closets and organizing the kitchen drawers.

 

And yet the husband was fuming that they hired a laundress. FUMING MAD.  So tell me, does this asshole make and take a bag  lunch every day, and not go out for dinner or drinks with his coworkers or clients, have to curtail his spending on himself, etc? I wonder.  Does this guy ever not do his fair share of laundry and cleaning  at home?  Or watch the kids? etc?  Does he stay at his job longer or lie about going home directly because he doesnt want to help or spend time with his wife and kids? We dont know any of that. Only that he's fuming level mad at his wife for not keeping up the house like his personal french maid.  Screw him.

[tobeannounced]

13 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

 

@tobeannounced  from your post, what is "child wear"? I got the other two references but not that one. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babywearing

[ombelico]

I've now watched episodes 2-5 - the Akiyamas (empty nesters), the Mersier family who moved from Michigan to LA, Margie the widow, and the young gay couple (Frank and Matt). I enjoyed and got more out of all of these episodes/families' stories much more than the first one, so it really is unfortunate that the unlikeable Friend family was first. The Mersiers in particular were just utterly charming - I'd watch 3 episodes just with them! Margie's story was also very relatable to me - although I haven't lost a spouse, I have a lot of inherited items/photos/papers that right now are cluttered and I know that at some point I need to tackle that, and I think some of those themes that were touched on in her episode will be helpful to me.

I can see now that they are spreading Marie's "lessons" across the different shows (e.g., it seems like books only started to get addressed in Margie's episode, although she bailed on that to deal with her husband's clothes). But there's so much emphasis on the "what sparks joy for you" aspect, and not enough on, "ok, you've identified what sparks joy, here's how to store it." Frank and Matt went through their books and papers, but then we never really saw how they ended up organizing them. I don't need the shot of them taking their stuff to the donation shop. Then there was the Marie vignette talking about how to store electronic miscellaneous items, but clearly the subtitles were not really keeping up with what she was saying (I don't speak Japanese but it definitely seemed like she said way more than what was in the subtitles).

In person, Marie is probably best in small doses. She is just so twee and giggly, and I agree with the poster above that she can come off as an unfortunate caricature of the stereotypical Japanese ultra-girly woman. Really, you don't need to greet people every time you see them with a high pitched, long drawn out squeal. I love Iida the interpreter, though. One of my favorite bits was when Frank asked Marie to define what "spark joy" means in relation to clothes, and Marie let out this squeak of what the item should make you feel like, and Iida said, "I'm not going to translate that cute little sound she made." My other favorite was in the Akiyama episode when Marie was talking about storing Christmas decorations, and she turned to her daughter and asked, "Does this spark joy for you?" and the little girl just dispassionately said, "Yeah." She gets it.

Edited January 6, 2019 by ombelico

[BetyBee]

3 hours ago, ombelico said:

Then there was the Marie vignette talking about how to store electronic miscellaneous items, but clearly the subtitles were not really keeping up with what she was saying (I don't speak Japanese but it definitely seemed like she said way more than what was in the subtitles).

Sometimes she'd talk a long time, then they would just flash the subtitle, too quick to read.  It would just make me laugh - what's the point of subtitles, then?  

[Horrified]

On 1/3/2019 at 8:03 AM, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Totally fair question. Marie should have asked about her daily and weekly routines. I think parents and kids both benefit from structure and routine.  Pre-school, going to the park, playtime, lunch, naptime/quiet time, etc.  And for mom, putting a load of laundry in, at least once a day!

As for dad, even if he is working 50 - 60 hours a week, I would hope that he spends at least one hour a day with the kids, perhaps at bathtime and/or bedtime. That would give mom a chance to do the dishes.

Bottom line for me though, is that if you absolutely hate doing something, AND you have enough money to pay someone to do it, go ahead and pay someone. Isn't that cheaper than going to counseling or to a divorce attorney?  

Ugh, that family.  Well, actually, the wife.  I totally agree with you that some kind of ROUTINE needs to be incorporated into their lives.  From the brief snapshot we got of their life, it looked pretty non-structured.  And clearly, the untidiness/lack of structure just begat more anxiety on the part of the Mom.  At the beginning of the episode, I gave that couple one year tops before the split.  At the end, 5 years.  

And when they "put the kids to bed", which appeared to be naptime to me, both parents kind of got into bed with their kids..........that's a bit much, no?  My mom used to tell me it was nap time, made sure I got onto my bed (by myself), closed the door. 

et voila!

I think Marie is a saint and very nicely said that her children help and that she scolds them when they don't behave.  Yes!  Marie!!  Thank you!!  Children don't have to be indulged 24/7

 

On 1/4/2019 at 6:10 PM, ombelico said:

that nonsense of saying "thank you" to every t-shirt you throw in the goodwill bin is ridiculous.

I wonder if that's part of the "cure"?  It seems a bit silly, and takes too long - so perhaps it gives you a chance to reflect on how ridiculous it is that you have so much stuff?  Knowing that you have to throw a good-bye party for every tshirt you chuck will make you think twice about bringing a new one into the house....

[sskrill]

I'm only halfway into the first episode and I'm about done.  

This is Love It or List It without the pretense of selling the home. 

The short version with both shows:  you are greedy and materialistic people who own way too much shit.  She doesn't have the time to manage the kids but somehow has the time to fill the house up with useless "must have" items.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

I agree with the posters who loved the Mersier family (downsizers from Michigan). You could just feel the love in that family. The mom had such expectations for herself.

I know the point of the show is not to buy more stuff to organize, but that family really could have benefited from some decent dressers for the bedrooms. The wire shelving unit just is not designed for clothes. I would have also talked about tips for best using space in smaller homes (under-bed storage, shelving, etc.).  Great job making sure that everyone took the time to organize and learn where things go, so that they don't always have to ask mom.

[nora1992]

I think I’ve missed the point of this show: after watching the series, my house seems clutter-free enough.  I have a lot of clothes, but nothing like Mt Wendy: I never had enough money to buy things that didn’t spark joy.

Inertia has taken over: my house is okay.  I don’t have the energy to spark additional joy.

Edited January 8, 2019 by nora1992
Clarification of thought

[ShellsandCheese]

5 hours ago, nora1992 said:

I think I’ve missed the point of this show: after watching the series, my house seems clutter-free enough.  I have a lot of clothes, but nothing like Mt Wendy.  Inertia has taken over: my house is okay.  I don’t have the energy to spark joy.

Hahahaha. Right. I watched the first episode and realized that as much as I enjoy Marie Kondo - I cannot with the show. I’m just over “reality” TV shows in general. 

I think this would have worked better with  a three part special where Marie just demonstrated and reflected on her method. They could have dedicated like 30-45 minutes to each stage. That would have worked better than adding in these random families. 

[GaT]

I just watched the first episode, & this show is not for me. First, I don't want a TV show that needs subtitles & a translator. They were hard to read too, they kept putting them over white things. Second, I hated the "babe" couple, they were really annoying, & they were pigs. Never mind the laundry, if you're going to throw your clothes on a chair instead of putting them in the hamper, yeah there's going to be a mess. There was half eaten food on the kitchen counter, you couldn't put it in the garbage? It just seemed like they weren't doing the most basic things & then seemed surprised that the house didn't clean itself. Third, besides showing them how to fold clothes, what did Marie do? It seemed like she just thanked the house & told the couple to clean up. It's one & done for me.

[atlantaloves]

Yeah, Mrs. Babe makes me feel like I totally have my life together as I do throw out my uneaten food and actually hang up my clothes. I hated her. I hated Mr. Babe too. 

[Glory]

Did anyone like the show? I really did. I thought it was relaxing in a way. And it really helped me to look around my own house and see things with fresh eyes. To be appreciative of the things I have and cherish and use. I'm going to attempt a total closet clean out KonMarie style this weekend. I think it will be really helpful to pile everything up on the bed like that. 

[BetyBee]

3 hours ago, Glory said:

Did anyone like the show? I really did. I thought it was relaxing in a way. And it really helped me to look around my own house and see things with fresh eyes. To be appreciative of the things I have and cherish and use. I'm going to attempt a total closet clean out KonMarie style this weekend. I think it will be really helpful to pile everything up on the bed like that. 

I did.  We did the closet cleanout and it felt great!  We're looking forward to doing the kitchen!

[Token]

4 hours ago, Glory said:

Did anyone like the show? I really did. I thought it was relaxing in a way. And it really helped me to look around my own house and see things with fresh eyes. To be appreciative of the things I have and cherish and use. I'm going to attempt a total closet clean out KonMarie style this weekend. I think it will be really helpful to pile everything up on the bed like that. 

I'm currently in the process of Marie Kondo-ing my entire apartment.  It's a long, slow process but totally worth it.  It's helping me declutter and it's helped me to stop shopping and bringing in even more crap that I don't need.

At some point, I'm going to have to tackle my storage locker too, although I'm definitely procrastinating over that one!!!

[Cheezwiz]

On 1/5/2019 at 4:54 AM, Margo Leadbetter said:

my main takeaway was that she needed help, stat. Throwing away her family members’ possessions without their permission? Spending recess inside the classroom tidying up the supply closet rather than join her classmates on the playground? TEARING PAGES OUT OF BOOKS AND THROWING THEM OUT?!? That’s not normal, that’s obsessive. I was still interested in checking out the show, if only to see her process in real life.

I could not get into her book at ALL, because it seemed so extreme. The joke going around on the internet right now is that in reality she is someone who figured out how to monetize her obsessive compulsive disorder. Can't say I disagree!

However, I've been surprised at how much I've enjoyed the show. I've watched episodes 1-5 so far, and am finding something about it very soothing and satisfying. Marie can be a bit much with her girly giggliness, (what is UP with her wearing a white top ALL the time?). But I like how non-judgemental she is, and she genuinely empathizes with some of the emotional challenges people face with letting go of items. She is also quick to admit that her home is not perfect, and that her children need to be scolded at times. It's unfortunate she doesn't speak English fluently, but her translator Iida is great as well. The most useful takeaways I've gotten from the show are the folding techniques. haven't tried them yet, but I can see how it would make things easier to see. I'd like to see more. Basically this show is a non-disgusting version of Hoarders, which I sometimes watched purely for train-wreck reasons, but found horrific and depressing. This show, on the other hand, is uplifting.

After kind of a traumatic move from a place I lived in for two decades, I now have a horror of clutter. My current home is in pretty good shape at the moment, but I always have a nagging worry that I might backslide and start over-stuffing closets and drawers again, which is why shows like this fascinate me. My biggest weakness is books, but I did a major cull when I moved, and most everything I have now is neatly organized on shelves. They are special books with lots of pictures (art, illustration, photography, history) and they ALL spark joy for me! I've converted to buying novels for pleasure reading on my ipad, so they are not accumulating anymore.

Thoughts on episodes so far:

Episode 1 - Friend Family: agree with everyone else above. House was nice, but  good GOD this couple was annoying. It did not surprise me to discover in the comments that the wife has already been on another reality show. She struck me immediately as a famewhore wannabe who is now in the midst of domestic drudgery. The constant "babe"-ing drove me up the wall. Husband seemed like a bit of an ass as well - I bet he thought he was marrying a hot chick who would be a super-efficient maid/housekeeper and cater to his every need. I agree they'll probably divorce at some point in the next few years.

Episode 2 - Akiyama Family: Yikes these people were straight up hoarders. I'm not the most organized person myself, but seeing their house made me incredibly anxious. I thought I was going to have a panic attack looking at all that crap. The clothes! The absurd amount of Christmas decorations! Just shit piled up and spilling everywhere! Their poor kids. It was a relief (for their children's sakes) to see them get it to a manageable level.

Episode 3 - Mersier Family: I'm not so sure that this was a tidying problem  (although the husband and kids were hopelessly disorganized)as much as a sudden lack of space problem. I felt bad for them going from a four bedroom house to a tiny two-bedroom condo. Even if you're ruthless about jettisoning stuff, it would still be a tough transition. Plus the two opposite-sex teens having to share a room - that would be kind of hard. They seemed lovely though, and perhaps this is a temporary pit-stop until they can afford something bigger. Glad they all realized the Mom was responsible for too much physical and mental labour with regards to household stuff.

Episode 4 - Margie: This was a very moving episode. Whether it's a spouse or a family member, we are all going to have to face sorting through a departed loved-one's belongings, so I thought it was a useful topic to feature.

Episode 5 - Two Writers: these guys seemed sweet and happy in their relationship. There was nothing extreme or unusual for two young guys (in fact most of their apartment looked nice) but they had stuff-it (in the nearest drawer or cabinet) syndrome which I'm guilty of as well. Damn, their apartment was super-cute too! If I had to live in L.A. I'd love to live in an adorable character building like that one.

Off to go fold my sweaters in half then in thirds!

[biakbiak]

This cracked me up:

[Melina22]

On 2019-01-05 at 9:41 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

Obviously the shirt doesn't care if you thank it. It's just a way of giving yourself a moment of closure with something before you get rid of it. It does a lot of people good to "say goodbye" to something they are having a hard time parting with, or accepting that something they loved so much they wore it completely out will never again give them that same enjoyment, or maybe getting rid of clothes they've never worn or books they haven't read - how do you get rid of something that you haven't even used yet? "Thanking" the item is just a way of accepting that it's done all it's going to do for you, and releasing yourself from the obligation to eventually wear it, or read it, or do something with it to justify having bought it.

Well put! I agree that Marie Kondo is pretty kooky but she's helped me a lot. In particular, the above mentioned method of thanking things and letting them go. It's bizarrely helpful, because as you say, the items are inanimate and don't care what we do, but it's really helped me let go of both sentimental or useful items and the inexplicable guilt I feel over getting rid of them. 

So far I've really enjoyed the show, which as someone noted is like Hoarders without the tragic mental illness. But I'm feeling pretty anxious watching the Matti son episode because the wife has very strong hoarder tendencies. You can tell that she doesn't get the joy concept at all. To her, joy is keeping everything. Marie Kondo isn't really equipped for her. And her husband seems really upset about it. It's uncomfortable to watch. 

[tobeannounced]

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Well put! I agree that Marie Kondo is pretty kooky but she's helped me a lot. In particular, the above mentioned method of thanking things and letting them go. It's bizarrely helpful, because as you say, the items are inanimate and don't care what we do, but it's really helped me let go of both sentimental or useful items and the inexplicable guilt I feel over getting rid of them. 

Have to agree with this. Just this morning, I threw out a dress my daughter has had for a few years and is just worn out. It is so "her," and there are a lot of memories attached to it, but do I really need to keep it in my attic in a box for the next 50 years? No. So thanking it for its service and its memories made tossing it much easier.

[Melina22]

It's so weird. I'm not a touchy-feely or new agey person in the least, and yet silently thanking my things as I let them go has been wonderful for me. When I sold the house I grew up in recently after my dad's death, I went from room to room, mentally thanking each room and letting it go. Pure Marie Kondo. I'd be embarrassed to tell anyone about it, but it made the process so much easier and less painful. It gave me a feeling of completion I guess. 

So I appreciate this show and seeing others go through the process. I can also tell which people on the show just don't get it, and are struggling with deep hoarding issues. 

[ombelico]

I almost died laughing when Marie said that she never needed to use a dog leash because growing up the only pets she had were "eel-like fish." 

[kirklandia]

We older folks may also want to check out The Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning by Margareta Magnusson.  I was inspired to read it by this article-

Memo to parents: Your adult kids don't want your stuff 

https://www.nola.com/homegarden/index.ssf/2016/04/memo_to_parents_your_adult_kid.html

Edited January 11, 2019 by kirklandia

[Melina22]

Wow, kirklandia, that's an amazing article! I love the line, "There's a fine line between bestow and burden". 

[BostonBlonde]

On 1/6/2019 at 8:37 AM, Butless said:

Was that herpes, or just a shitload of moles? Being generous,here.

Why is she so stressed out, when she obviously thinks she belongs on our TVs? This being the second reality show that sshe's been on.  Honey, take a seat. Live your best life inprivate,  and stay off our TVs from now on.  You are sad; get yo shit together!

Lol. Exactly. 

On 1/1/2019 at 7:01 PM, Token said:

Just watching the first episode now.  Not as good as I thought it would be.  But I think the problem is that I'm finding the wife so irritating and annoying.

This x 1000. Boo hoo I can't do laundry. Eyeroll. I had twins after 2 toddlers. I managed and no "look at me!" "I'm a hero!" parade. 

On 1/2/2019 at 9:24 PM, tobeannounced said:

Working 50 to 60 hours a week. What the hell was she doing? She's a SAHM with two kids and has to hire someone to do laundry? And, yes, I was a SAHM with two kids who was not the greatest housekeeper, but damn, girl, buck up and do the basics for your family. Because you know she has a housekeeper as well. If your kids are running you that ragged, you need to start teaching them how to play independently.

ETA: @MoreCoffeePlease, I hope you don't think my vitriol was geared towards you. That mom just really bugged me, and I had to vent.

 

Yep. Yep. Yep. She needs to get over herself. Stat. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by BostonBlonde

[BananaPants]

On 1/3/2019 at 6:13 PM, atlantaloves said:

Oh man, can I just say that the "babe" couple will be divorced within two years. He can't stand her.  (and we can't either) And what is it with breast feeding a child who speaks in more complete sentences than you do Mrs. Babe?

The "babe" woman was obnoxious.  I don't know how he could tolerate her; she was almost enough to make me stop watching the show. 

I breastfed both of my kids beyond their 2nd birthdays, but by 12 months they were only nursing twice a day and by 15-18 months they were only nursing at bedtime.   People get really judgmental about extended breastfeeding, so I sure as hell wouldn't have allowed a situation where I'd be filmed breastfeeding my 2 year old.

[Kemper]

I was so looking forward to watching this show; and thank you to whoever recognized the "babe" wife from The People's Couch.  I don't really think I can add all that much to what has already been said about the first episode.  I am not sure I will watch the rest.

Like many, I was the stay-at-home-mom with two small children, albeit in the early 70's.  What seemed to be the main problem with "Babe" couple, to me, was out-of-control kids, through no fault of their own.  I didn't realize that one of them had a disability.  It just seems that the mom made no effort to manage anything.  Kids, house, etc.  And I am not letting the dad off the hook; I wondered, also, how much time he actually spent with his kids of helping in the house.  

If the household had any structure, some of this stuff could have been fixed.  Hang up your clothes!  How hard is that?  Wipe off your kitchen counters!  Don't let food sit out on the counters unless you are going to pick it up and eat it within a reasonable amount of time.  Does the mom ever get a break from the kids....as in putting them down for quiet time or a nap?  How about not have them loudly participating in every single conversation that you might have?  Especially with other adults around.  

It was hard to work up any sympathy for this first couple.  There seemed to be so much hostility in their "babe" exchanges; I told Mr. Kemper that I give them five years, tops.  Like others, I wish this show had not gone the "reality" route.  Marie's folding techniques flashed on so fast that I couldn't concentrate enough to remember them.  I still can't manage a folded, fitted sheet and I have been married 49 years; but I always managed to crumple it up enough that I could get it into a closet. Underneath the top sheet and pillow cases so that it was squashed enough to fit in without scaring anyone if they opened the closet door.

I will try and find the folding techniques on You Tube.

;

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Bottom line for me though, is that if you absolutely hate doing something, AND you have enough money to pay someone to do it, go ahead and pay someone. Isn't that cheaper than going to counseling or to a divorce attorney?  

Yep! I detest grocery shopping* (yet I love food) and I detest using a big chunk of my weekend to do it, so the delivery fee and tip are more than worth it. I schedule it for my one work-at-home day during the week--two birds, one stone (I think)!

Did not like the Babe-Friends, loved the former-Michigan family! When that boy said, "Oh my goodness, why haven't I worn this--it brings me so much joy," I laughed so loud.

*Vegan, so asking my nonvegan BF to do the shopping, which he would, seems a bit unfair.

Edited January 12, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[msblossom]

On 1/2/2019 at 9:56 PM, Token said:

Oh, that mom bugged me too.  She seemed incredibly immature and annoying.  I was wondering what the age difference was between her and her husband.  

I don’t think they’re all that far apart in age, maybe 5 years. She has to be mid 30’s. The mom acted only slightly more nature than her 2 toddlers, okay I exaggerate.

 

She doesn’t “like” doing laundry? Well, guess what...most of us don’t, but it has to get done. She’s incredibly immature and obnoxious. And who teaches their kid to say “booby time” when they should be drinking from a sippy cup?

 

No way she’s able to keep this up. Her house is probably already near clutter capacity. Bet that couple fights loud and below the belt often. Whoever said this couple will be divorced in a few years is right. 

 

I love decluttering and minimalism, but I couldn’t get past the 1st episode. 🤷‍♀️ 

Edited January 12, 2019 by msblossom

[LuvMyShows]

Please help!  The description says there is a forum for this show, but I can't find it by using the Search function (which is how I found this not-forum) or by just looking in the Forums under T.

[biakbiak]

Just now, LuvMyShows said:

Please help!  The description says there is a forum for this show, but I can't find it by using the Search function (which is how I found this not-forum) or by just looking in the Forums under T.

This is the forum or rather thread since there isn’t enough traffic. 

1 hour ago, msblossom said:

doesn’t “like” doing laundry? Well, guess what...most of us don’t, 

Eh, lots of people send out their laundry because they don’t like to do it. I used to until my boyfriend moved in and loved to do it. It’s actually not that expensive especially when you add in the time it takes if you don’t have laundry in house or in your building. 

[MCMLXXVII]

Enjoying the show so far. Been on the path of minimalism for about four years after having grown up in a hoarder house, but never read Kondo’s book. 

I think Margie (the widowed lady) should sell that house and downsize if she wants to travel more.

Edited January 13, 2019 by MCMLXXVII

[hyacinth]

  When did organizing one's household in common sense ways become a new and life changing concept?    I was raised by two organized parents and my kids always seemed to have organized rooms without me saying much and I guess what I'm trying to say is that being organized is not that rare and I'm not quite sure how Marie K turned this all into a movement.    But all kudos to her.     

But having said that, I'm not sure Marie would much approve of me.  I just dumped the pink knit pom hat my sister gave me for Christmas in the trash and that did give me a little spark of joy, unlike bringing unused or older belongings or errant purchases to Goodwill or to the local consignment store which just seems like another normal chore on a normal day.     

[statsgirl]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, kirklandia said:

Memo to parents: Your adult kids don't want your stuff

I do. My parents' stuff is better than my stuff, and it is filled with memories.

This method targets a specific group of people who just need a shove to to get rid of stuff and clean up.  It does nothing for those who grew up poor and for whom throwing something out means you may not be able to get another when you need it, or those who perceive objects differently.

I miss How Clean is Your House?

[hyacinth]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It does nothing for those who grew up poor and for whom throwing something out means you may not be able to get another when you need it,

I agree.   This is something that is not acknowledged enough in the shows and articles about discarding possessions.   You might not use a particular item often but when you need it you need it.   If your weight changes, it makes no sense to throw away the jeans that may fit again.   I think if you're on the fence about an item it should probably be kept not thrown, especially if budgeting is a priority.   And I also agree that I love some of my parents' stuff.     

[tessaray]

I have the death cleaning book and the underlying theme is - don't make your kids have to sort through all your stuff. It can be a heavy emotional burden and a huge time sink.  Sort it out beforehand, identify the things that are meaningful so there is less for you to deal with now and less work for them later. It's short and very sweet.  Maybe not worth the $18.99 I spent for the hardcover but definitely worth checking out from your library. 

I think my favorite cleaning/organizing show was "Neat".  Marie Kondo has those twirly skirts but Hellen Buttigieg had those boots!  (And a sympathetic but firm way of addressing clutter and chaos.)  

The language barrier is real in this show.  I know Marie is very popular in Japan - it would be interesting to see her work in her native environment. 

[Melina22]

I loved "Neat"! I forgot all about it! 

[Token]

I think it's a big misconception that people have about Marie Kondo, that she's all about getting rid of stuff.  She's not.  She's about tidying what you have and getting rid of stuff if you want to.  She even mentioned it at one point in the show, when someone was uncertain about throwing something out, she told the person to keep it.  Tidying doesn't mean simply getting rid of things.

[ombelico]

When I had only seen the first episode, which unfortunately featured that annoying couple who essentially distracted from the presentation of the KonMari system, I didn't follow the theory of "thanking" the items you are discarding because it wasn't explained well. But after watching the whole series, I realized that what's she's really doing is asking people to consider their relationship to items - if you have no use for an item, and it doesn't make you happy, then why keep it in your life? And maybe also getting people to realize that if you are clinging to an item for a sentimental reason or to remember someone or an event, getting rid of the item doesn't get rid of the memory (and in some cases, holding on to the item may actually be keeping you from moving on). Rather, it's best to curate a small selection of the most special items so that they are featured, rather than having a mountain of stuff in which nothing special gets to stand out. 

I think her overarching point is that at the end of the day, you can keep what you want, but have a way to either store or display it so that your environment makes you happy, rather than making you feel weighed down by the extra "stuff" in your life.

[atlantaloves]

Well said Ombelico!

[BostonBlonde]

Well I barely made it through the first "babe" episode. Awful. They should have never, ever, ever used them as the first episode. It absolutely ruined it for me. I gave another episode a try. Just no. Nothing really to do with organizing and boring zzzzzzzzzzz

[Melina22]

Wow, there must be something wrong with me but I really liked the first family and thought they were sweet. Did I even watch the same episode as everyone else? 

I have no issue with people who didn't like them, found them annoying, thought they were bound for divorce, etc. I'm just amazed at how different people perceive the same thing so differently. I guess we all see things through the prism of our own lives and experiences. 

Did anyone but me think they were a nice, loving family? 

[link417]

8 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Did anyone but me think they were a nice, loving family? 

To me, the only good thing about that episode was the daughter shouting over her shoulder on her way out of the room, “Daddy, you’re so cute, I love you!”

The “boobies” thing was weird to me, but not my kid and not my boobies so I don’t really give a shit. The “babe” thing and the butchered grammar were super annoying, but I did feel bad for Rachel having to go on film with those sores on her mouth.

They really should have started the series with the Mersier family, they sparked joy.

Edited January 14, 2019 by link417
‘Thing,’ not ‘thong’