S01.E03: Remember It Was Me

[Door County Cherry]

Quote

Debra discovers John's criminal record; in the past, John starts his first family.

Mod Reminder:  Please be careful when discussing the podcast---in fact, using spoiler tags while addressing things that were revealed in the podcast is strongly recommended.   That includes revelations about the past that have not yet been revealed on the show. 

This episode shows that Dirty John isn't going to take a linear approach to the story and likely will get around to addressing the characters' history. 

[answerphone]

Even though we know how it will all end, this series is so entertaining.

[patty1h]

Help please.  I recorded this from Directv Now and it cut off about 5 minutes before the end.  The last thing I saw was Debra kissing John in the hospital, saying she was going to wait in the chapel.  Anything happen after that?   Thanks.

[MerBearStare]

9 minutes ago, patty1h said:

Anything happen after that?

Ooooooh girl, yes! Debra leaves the hospital and packs up literally everything at the house with the help of Ronnie and they drive away in a moving truck.

[angelamh66]

She left the hospital and went home and packed her stuff and left. Also they flashed back to him threatening to kill his previous wife over the phone.

[raiderred1]

All I can say is he should've tried this shit on a Texas girl with a badass gun toting family. They would find Jimmy Hoffa loooog before they found creepy fucking John! Our woods are deep an quit swmpy in east Texas...just sayin. Oh, and the long lost saw mill wells are not on any maps. I'd have "Delores Claiborned" him.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, patty1h said:

Help please.  I recorded this from Directv Now and it cut off about 5 minutes before the end.  The last thing I saw was Debra kissing John in the hospital, saying she was going to wait in the chapel.  Anything happen after that?   Thanks.

Debra heads back to the house and we see Debra, Veronica, and a moving crew that Debra must use for Madeira Home hurriedly pack Debra's stuff up and move her out of the house in the middle of the night. I think they crosscut with Tonia and John threatening her on the phone.

Debra with the private detective played by Judy Reyes was all you needed to know about how Debra ended up in this mess. Debra finds out about the drugs, jail and prison stints, lost licenses, threats and restraining orders and she's like blink blink "what should I do?" blink blink. This isn't a trick or rhetorical question. This is a pretty freaking easy question. If you saw a multiple choice answer that looked like the choice you knew Debra would have picked if there hadn't been anyone there reflecting their judgment on her you would think someone was punking you. Debra is just lucky it was Judy Reyes as the PI because Quiet Ann would have picked up her bat, jumped in her van, and beat the shit out of John.

How shitty are John's friends? They knew he was a disaster. You would think there would have been an opportunity to drop more than vague hints that John was a lying scam artist dirtbag. I feel like there are really only three ways to play that situation: 1. don't go to wedding; 2. go, but don't mince words about him being garbage; or 3.go and not say anything. I personally would feel awful about option 3 regardless of how it turned out.

Edited December 10, 2018 by HunterHunted

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This is why I wish more people would read The Gift of Fear - trust your instincts! When Debra snuck into her own office to look at John's papers and her reaction was to take pictures of everything and then go straight to her lawyer, I was cheering. I was so relieved when she took advantage of John being in the hospital to move out of the house. If only she had stayed on that track! Since this is only the third episode, I know they aren't going to stay apart but it was nice to see her get the fuck away from him.

Poor Tonia. When she confronted John with Maggie's name, his reaction was, "Okay, you want to get into this right now?" as if she were the one in the wrong picking a fight with him.

I was trying to figure out when John and Tonia's wedding was supposed to take place. Based on her dress and the floppy bangs of one of the groomsmen, I was guessing the 80s. Unchained Melody was around long before then but it became really popular because of Ghost.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

I just cannot get over how stupid Debra is, over and over. Your husband says the worst possible thing he could say to your nephew, the child of domestic violence and you still hem and haw? If none of the other red flags stuck - and jeez, they've been there from date #1 - that should have been an anvil falling on her head to stop dillydallying and get this man out of your house/life/money - NOW.

Edited December 10, 2018 by CaliCheeseSucks

[Empress1]

When John was like "What was I supposed to do, NOT cheat on you?" when his first wife confronted him, I snorted.

6 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Debra with the private detective played by Judy Reyes was all you needed to know about how Debra ended up in this mess. Debra finds out about the drugs, jail and prison stints, lost licenses, threats and restraining orders and she's like blink blink "what should I do?" blink blink. This isn't a trick or rhetorical question. This is a pretty freaking easy question. If you saw a multiple choice answer that looked like the choice you knew Debra would have picked if there hadn't been anyone there reflecting their judgment on her you would think someone was punking you.

Her lawyer too! I mean, when your lawyer starts your conversation with "I'm just gonna get into it" and DROPS YOU AS A CLIENT because your situation is such a nightmare, you need to stop asking what you should do and run. But of course, she wasn't asking because she really wanted advice, she was asking because she wanted one person to tell her to stay. (She should have asked her mother for advice, in that case.)

You kind of saw it sink in when John was in the hospital and the doctor was asking Debra about his history with drugs and Debra was like "Um, I don't know it," that she realized, like, of COURSE I don't know his history. Connie Britton did that "[Gulp]" face very well.

When Debra told Veronica "I was waiting to tell you [that I married a man I knew for 8 weeks] because you hate him so much," I just wanted to shake her and be like "DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF?"

6 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

I just cannot get over how stupid Debra is, over and over. Your husband says the worst possible thing he could say to your nephew, the child of domestic violence and you still hem and haw? If none of the other red flags stuck - and jeez, they've been there from date #1 - that should have been an anvil falling on her head to stop dillydallying and get this man out of your house/life/money - NOW.

 

He also "joked" about shooting her daughter in the head, right in front of her. Debra is a disaster.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Empress1

[CruiseDiva]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Unchained Melody was around long before then but it became really popular because of Ghost.

I don't remember exactly when the wedding took place, but Unchained Melody was a hit record much earlier than Ghost. It was very popular when I was in high school in the 60s when performed by the Righteous Brothers. I'm really old. LOL!

[CaliCheeseSucks]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

He also "joked" about shooting her daughter in the head, right in front of her. Debra is a disaster.

Oh god, yes. He is the worst... and somehow, she is the worst because she has no normal reaction to anything he does. I feel terrible saying that I don't feel sorry for the victim of a con but they're not doing a very good job of depicting - or giving a good reason for - why Debra is such a dingbat, especially after four marriages. Someone said on an earlier thread, her spidey senses should have been tingling all of their own. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 minutes ago, CruiseDiva said:

I don't remember exactly when the wedding took place, but Unchained Melody was a hit record much earlier than Ghost. It was very popular when I was in high school in the 60s when performed by the Righteous Brothers. I'm really old. LOL!

Hha, that's the same thing I was trying to say (heh, unsuccessfully).

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Well, if she left him for good this time, there wouldn't be any episodes left!

Not necessarily.  The remaining episodes could be flashbacks and all the fallout from her leaving him.  We don't know what's going to happen, for the purposes of this episode thread.

[CaliCat]

I was surprised that first wife (Lynn?) apparently didn’t leave him when she found he was cheating, but finally left him when she found out about him steeling drugs.   

[QuinnM]

14 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Not necessarily.  The remaining episodes could be flashbacks and all the fallout from her leaving him.  We don't know what's going to happen, for the purposes of this episode thread.

Ack!  That would keep me tuned in for about 2 more episodes so I hope that’s not the case.  

[teddysmom]

Does anyone know if the first wife meeting the surgeon girlfriend really happened?  That seemed a little to convenient for real life.  I need to re listen to the podcast. 

When he was outside the house yelling at her I kept saying CALL THE POLICE. 

The fact this asshole was ever let out of jail is the failure of our judicial system.    I guess it's true, be a white guy with a great con, you can get away with anything. 

[EdnasEdibles]

27 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

I was surprised that first wife (Lynn?) apparently didn’t leave him when she found he was cheating, but finally left him when she found out about him steeling drugs.   

Well, she had two kids with him. I don't agree with her choice but I can see where she would have made that decision. It's easier to raise kids with someone than on your own. I think a lot of women fall into that. I think when the other nurse laid it on the line and pointed out that she could lose literally everything if the drug use came out - I think that's when she realized she needed to get out. She could lose her job. She could lose her kids. She could lose everything. I think she was willing to lose some self-respect and stick with a cheater but she wasn't going to lose everything for him. 

And John's friends were such assholes. I'm not surprised. Birds of a feather and all that.

I love that we got a full flashback with his previous wife. It was amazing to see him work his "magic" on someone else. Someone who honestly seems smarter than Debra. I give her credit for figuring things and confronting him and then leaving him. But yes, his attitude when she confronted him about the affair was chilling. It was like "OK, so I guess we have to talk about this because YOU want to." and not even at all apologetic. 

[preeya]

DIRTY JOHN MEEHAN = TOTAL SCUMBAG TO THE Nth DEGREE.

[Sun-Bun]

8 minutes ago, preeya said:

DIRTY JOHN MEEHAN = TOTAL SCUMBAG TO THE Nth DEGREE.

Seriously, what a total waste of DNA and a pathetic excuse of a life. Look how many other people’s lives were ruined thanks to his evil existence; at least he had two seemingly happy and normal daughters who are leading healthy and productive lives(thanks to his absence from their lives). He’s a true sociopath who didn’t choose to use his powers for good.

I was cheering inside when Debra was packing her shit up to get the Hell out of there; not only did she realize that was she married to a con artist, but a drug addict. That should’ve been grounds for instant anullment right there.

[CaliCat]

5 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Well, she had two kids with him. I don't agree with her choice but I can see where she would have made that decision. It's easier to raise kids with someone than on your own. I think a lot of women fall into that. I think when the other nurse laid it on the line and pointed out that she could lose literally everything if the drug use came out - I think that's when she realized she needed to get out. She could lose her job. She could lose her kids. She could lose everything. I think she was willing to lose some self-respect and stick with a cheater but she wasn't going to lose everything for him. 

And John's friends were such assholes. I'm not surprised. Birds of a feather and all that.

I love that we got a full flashback with his previous wife. It was amazing to see him work his "magic" on someone else. Someone who honestly seems smarter than Debra. I give her credit for figuring things and confronting him and then leaving him. But yes, his attitude when she confronted him about the affair was chilling. It was like "OK, so I guess we have to talk about this because YOU want to." and not even at all apologetic. 

This is so true. I guess everyone has to settle to some extent in relationships, but it’s unfortunate how much some people think have to settle for. And, yes, bringing kids into the equation makes the calculation much more complicated. I just assumed that the relationship was over after she found out about the affair, and when the drug-stealing came up, I wasn’t sure where it fit into the timeline at first.  I wish they would do a better job of indicating the timeline.

While the first wife seems smarter than Deb, I wonder if there were red flags that she overlooked that they’re just not showing. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by CaliCat
Stealing, not steeling.

[Kdawg82]

Okay so we now know a little about what drugs John is on. How about Debra? She is so calm and even . Is it the anti anxiety med she got? She barely has a pulse at this point. 

And judging by the preview... if I were in a detective's office and was told "he's really good at what he does," my response would be "okay so it's your DUTY to be even better at what YOU do!" What a sad commentary on the American justice system. You literally have to wait to be murdered for the perp to get locked up. Disturbing. 

[QuinnM]

21 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

I was cheering inside when Debra was packing her shit up to get the Hell out of there; not only did she realize that was she married to a con artist, but a drug addict. That should’ve been grounds for instant anullment right there

Veronica, for all her self absorbed nonsense, what a champ when her mother needed her support.  So she gets a bit of a pass from me at this point.  She is fiercely in her mother's corner even when it's difficult.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

Ack!  That would keep me tuned in for about 2 more episodes so I hope that’s not the case.  

I'd watch the hell out of flashbacks showing what happened to get 2 restraining orders filed against him by 2 female cops.  The psychological warfare, retaliation, harassment & lawsuits in his wake would be fascinating to me.

[Kdawg82]

4 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

lawsuits in his wake would be fascinating to me.

I was unaware that lawyers could totally wash their hands of you based on the history of such an individual. That's crazy to me! She can't even get legal representation now?! What a bastard.  

[Amy Beth]

I still can’t figure out why he married the first wife. 

Nothing seemed to be pushing him towards needing a front of normality, so why bother?

[walnutqueen]

6 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

I was unaware that lawyers could totally wash their hands of you based on the history of such an individual. That's crazy to me! She can't even get legal representation now?! What a bastard.  

Well, if lawyers who previously crossed him have spent years fighting his nuisance suits (or worse), I can understand why many of them wouldn't want to get involved ...

I saw an episode about stalkers on one of my true crime shows, and one segment was about a woman who had been harassing and stalking a doctor for THIRTY YEARS!  There are some crazy dangerous people out there in this big bad world.

[Empress1]

10 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

I was unaware that lawyers could totally wash their hands of you based on the history of such an individual. That's crazy to me! She can't even get legal representation now?! What a bastard.  

Lawyers can always refuse to represent you, or stop representing you just like you can fire lawyers - the president has been dropped by a bunch of lawyers. But yeah, if your lawyer is like "ma'am, what John is NOT about to do is fuck up MY life, good luck to you," you should know you're in a seriously bad situation.

[Ohwell]

You know, while I was watching this episode last night I could feel my blood pressure rising and all I could think of was what a lowlife rat bastard piece of shit that man is.  

I felt so bad for Tanya.  At least Debra finally got a fucking clue.

Edit:  LOL, I was so pissed, I had to clean up my language a little bit @Empress1"  

Edited December 10, 2018 by Ohwell

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, Ohwell said:

You know, while I was watching this episode last night I could feel my blood pressure rising and all I could think of was what a lowlife rat bastard piece of shit that man is.  I don't know anything about this story other than what's on this show.  So is the motherfucker dead?  In prison?    

Spoiler

He's dead. He tried to kidnap and murder Debra's daughter Terra and she fought back and murdered him in self-defense.

When you call your mother-in-law and she basically says "I knew that boy wasn't shit," you know you've got a real piece of shit.

[Ohwell]

I'm still cussing.  

One of my uncles would have taken care of his ass. 

[teddysmom]

I love how John keeps saying "it's somebody else with my name".

Yes, I have a drawer full of criminal records for someone else. 

Also, WHY would you keep that stuff around?  

I answered my own question. The meet up with the girlfriend didn't happen, he just announced he wanted a divorce.   Why the writers portrayed it this way, it's absurd that of ALL the nurses and surgeons in Ohio & northeast Indiana, these two would meet up and chat. 

[Ohwell]

7 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I answered my own question. The meet up with the girlfriend didn't happen, he just announced he wanted a divorce.   Why the writers portrayed it this way, it's absurd that of ALL the nurses and surgeons in Ohio & northeast Indiana, these two would meet up and chat. 

Is that a spoiler? 

[teddysmom]

5 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

11 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I answered my own question. The meet up with the girlfriend didn't happen, he just announced he wanted a divorce.   Why the writers portrayed it this way, it's absurd that of ALL the nurses and surgeons in Ohio & northeast Indiana, these two would meet up and chat. 

Is that a spoiler? 

I don't think so, it's a dramatization of what happened in this week's episode, but I can hide it. 

[Ohwell]

4 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I don't think so, it's a dramatization of what happened in this week's episode, but I can hide it. 

Spoiler

I just wasn't sure if you were saying that Tanya didn't actually meet up with the girlfriend.

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Does anyone know if the first wife meeting the surgeon girlfriend really happened?  That seemed a little to convenient for real life.  I need to re listen to the podcast.

I agree. It seemed far too convenient. My guess is that meeting was invented for the show.

I can't remember where I read that the doctor also had a kid with John. 

Quote

When he was outside the house yelling at her I kept saying CALL THE POLICE. 

The fact this asshole was ever let out of jail is the failure of our judicial system.    I guess it's true, be a white guy with a great con, you can get away with anything. 

One of the most important points that the 30 for 30 documentary OJ: Made in America made is that prior to the murder trial lots of law enforcement departments treated domestic violence like a joke or overblown domestic squabbling. The murder and murder trial were watershed moments that changed a lot of attitudes about the seriousness of domestic abuse and violence. Just like Theresa Saldana's stabbing and Rebecca Schaeffer's murder were very important events that motivated law enforcement to treat stalking as important too.

[TattleTeeny]

2 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

I was unaware that lawyers could totally wash their hands of you based on the history of such an individual. That's crazy to me! She can't even get legal representation now?! What a bastard.  

Private practice attorneys can, I believe, turn down whatever they want (like if I get a freelance editing assignment that I don't think I am equipped to handle with the resources I have, I don't take it on). Debra would just have to just hire someone else, I assume.

Edited December 10, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Does anyone know if the first wife meeting the surgeon girlfriend really happened?  That seemed a little to convenient for real life.  I need to re listen to the podcast. 

When he was outside the house yelling at her I kept saying CALL THE POLICE. 

The fact this asshole was ever let out of jail is the failure of our judicial system.    I guess it's true, be a white guy with a great con, you can get away with anything. 

One of the horrible things I learned in college (from a class, not personal experience, thank goodness) was how useless restraining orders can be. Once you have one issued, there’s still very little you or the police can do until the other person actually breaks the law or violates the restraining order. In class, we talked about several cases where women had restraining orders against their exes and called the police to report that said exes were standing across the street from their homes. Because the distance was just outside what was listed on the restraining order, the police refused to do anything because technically the exes hadn’t yet violated the restraining order. We’re talking the guy was standing 501 feet away because the restraining order stipulated 500 feet. One woman said the police told her to call them back once her ex broke into her house because then they could arrest him. She was like “Are you fucking kidding me? If he gets in here, he will kill me before I have time to dial 911!” It’s horrifying how lightly the safety of these women was treated. 

4 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Not necessarily.  The remaining episodes could be flashbacks and all the fallout from her leaving him.  We don't know what's going to happen, for the purposes of this episode thread.

Aren’t there supposed to be eight episodes of this show? I’m fine with having flashbacks in the hopes of getting some answers (although I’m pretty sure my main question will never be completely answered: how the hell did John become such an abusive and manipulative asshole?), but I’d be pretty disappointed if the next five episodes were all flashbacks.

All I meant in my earlier post is that seeing Debra pack up and leave in episode 3 is like when I watch a movie and see I’m only halfway through it so I know that this is not the big TA-DA ending. There has to be more craziness coming because Hollywood tends not to blow its wad storywise before you’ve even hit the halfway mark. I’m hoping that Veronica’s PI digs up even more dirt on John. I also hope they finally give the PI a name because I feel bad referring to her as Nurse Carla. 

4 hours ago, CaliCat said:

I was surprised that first wife (Lynn?) apparently didn’t leave him when she found he was cheating, but finally left him when she found out about him steeling drugs.   

When Debra met with her lawyer, I’m 99% sure that they said John’s ex-wife’s name was Tonia, but for sone reason IMDB lists the character as Lynn. Maybe Tonia decided at the last minute she didn’t wanr her real name used on the show? It’s also possible that whoever entered the info just made a mistake. 

[teddysmom]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I just wasn't sure if you were saying that Tanya didn't actually meet up with the girlfriend.

Spoiler

Yes that didn't happen. John asked her for a divorce (according to an article I read on line, interview with Tanya)

[vmcd88]

The PI left out one thing.  She should have told her to buy a gun and learn how to use it.  

[biakbiak]

The actress who plays Veronica’s accent really slipped in the scene where she confronted Debra in her office.

[yourmomiseasy]

5 hours ago, teddysmom said:

 

The fact this asshole was ever let out of jail is the failure of our judicial system.    I guess it's true, be a white guy with a great con, you can get away with anything. 

I think it had more to do with committing crimes in California in the last decade than being white.  Honestly, I was surprised he stayed in so long. 

4 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

I was unaware that lawyers could totally wash their hands of you based on the history of such an individual. That's crazy to me! She can't even get legal representation now?! What a bastard.  

If a convienence store can refuse service to anyone, why can't an attorney?  Would you like to be forced to take on clients you don't want?  She can get legal representation, just not from that lawyer.  She needs to find one willing to take on her case.

 

So it looks like dumdum's  $90k is gone.  Who didn't see that coming?  Plus the year she paid upfront on that rental.  And she needs to stay in hotels, get new clothes and wigs, and buy/lease/rent another car.  Good thing she's rich.  I'm hoping she goes full Carmen San Diego next episode.

[Adiba]

7 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Oh god, yes. He is the worst... and somehow, she is the worst because she has no normal reaction to anything he does. I feel terrible saying that I don't feel sorry for the victim of a con but they're not doing a very good job of depicting - or giving a good reason for - why Debra is such a dingbat, especially after four marriages. Someone said on an earlier thread, her spidey senses should have been tingling all of their own. 

I wondered while watching if the real Debra is so seemingly passive? She’s strangely calm (at least to me) in reaction to John’s doings.  And, because this is her 5th marriage, shouldn’t she be a little wiser by now?

I think Debra as a business owner would be a little more savvy— marriage is somewhat like a business partnership— it isn’t just about love and romance.

[teddysmom]

Just now, Adiba said:

I wondered while watching if the real Debra is so seemingly passive?

No spoiler, but yes, she is. When the show is over listen to the podcast. 

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

I was unaware that lawyers could totally wash their hands of you based on the history of such an individual. That's crazy to me! She can't even get legal representation now?! What a bastard.

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Lawyers can always refuse to represent you, or stop representing you just like you can fire lawyers - the president has been dropped by a bunch of lawyers. But yeah, if your lawyer is like "ma'am, what John is NOT about to do is fuck up MY life, good luck to you," you should know you're in a seriously bad situation.

 

As long as you aren't in the middle of an action/case where time is of the essence, your lawyer can refuse to continue to represent you. (They can do it when time is of the essence like in the middle of a case, but the court has to sign off on it.)  Debra's lawyer gave her the lowdown dirt on dirty John and fulfilled that task. It might have been a little different if the lawyer had helped Debra revise her will, file for an annulment, and in the middle of all of this realized that John was bad news and wanted out. But at this stage, the lawyer was probably within her rights to dump Debra.

25 minutes ago, Adiba said:

I wondered while watching if the real Debra is so seemingly passive? She’s strangely calm (at least to me) in reaction to John’s doings.  And, because this is her 5th marriage, shouldn’t she be a little wiser by now?

I think Debra as a business owner would be a little more savvy— marriage is somewhat like a business partnership— it isn’t just about love and romance.

The reason why so many of us who are familiar with the Real Housewives of Orange County remarked on the similarity to Vicki Gunvalson is because there is a certain type of person regardless of their other achievements who cannot be alone. Relationships seem to validate them more than anything else they might have accomplished. These people often have a hard time taking the rules and discipline they use in other parts of their lives and diversifying it to their personal lives. Not everyone can be that objective about their relationships. 

Vicki is like that. Vicki has a relatively successful insurance business and hooked up with a toothless con man. Her family, friends, and fans kept saying he was sketchy. She wouldn't listen. Debra clearly has a similar issue. Bethenny Frankel of the Real Housewives of New York seems to have a problem with being single. Halle Berry has a bit of this issue too; though she also has a childhood with an abusive father. So not only does she have a hard time being alone, she also tends to pick men who will abuse or abandon her.

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

but I’d be pretty disappointed if the next five episodes were all flashbacks.

I'm thinking John will start stalking and scaring the hell out of Debra as soon as he's out of the hospital and see's that she left. I doubt he's finished with her. He's gonna go psycho crazy. Nutjobs like that don't give up so easily.  

[Ohwell]

If Debra has so much money, she needs to hire a bodyguard.  I would love for John to make a move on her and have the bodyguard blast him.

[sadie]

What this ep showed really well was, despite us thinking Debra is a dummy, it was obvious his first wife was a very smart woman. John worked his con easily on them both. It shows what a really good con man he was. Wow, when he admitted to wife #1 that of course he had an affair because the woman was monied was disgusting and I can’t believe she stayed. I guess the drugs were a step too far for her and man was his final phone call to her terrifying. And I can’t say enough bad things about those despicable men that stood up for him at his wedding KNOWING he was a con. What jerks. 

Connie did a great job portraying that stunned low key shock thing. She almost looked paralyzed. You could tell he knew in the hospital room something was off. I was terrified he was gonna jump out of the bed and follow her. I guess she was very lucky to have trucks and moving people at her disposal in the middle of the night.

And I’ll say it again, I don’t care about the vocal fry, Ronnie is a freaking boss the way she got things done with the PI and how she sprung into action once her mom was ready. As dumb as Debra is she managed to raise a pretty smart kid there. And I’m loving the PI, she is no fool and I love how she laid it out there straight. 

[Ohwell]

Maybe his buddies thought that John had found his "true love" and would turn his life around and stop being a con, so that's why they didn't say anything.  They didn't want to screw up a relationship.  We heard from that one guy, but I'm not sure that all of the guys knew just how bad John was, or knew every bad thing he did. 

[Gem 10]

11 hours ago, CruiseDiva said:

I don't remember exactly when the wedding took place, but Unchained Melody was a hit record much earlier than Ghost. It was very popular when I was in high school in the 60s when performed by the Righteous Brothers. I'm really old. LOL!

You would be surprised how many of us are, lol.  I got married in the 60’s.  So there. LOL.