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S03.E03: Spies Like Us

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Apparently no one has put up a new episode post about how Scientology uses tax exempt dollars to hire private investigators to destroy people’s lives.

 

A story from a hired P.I. and another from a long time Scientologist whose only sin was hiring Mike and being his friend.

 

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Thank you for opening the thread @Chaos Theory! :)  I have been anxious to post about this episode all night.  This is completely sad what Scientologists have done to Robert Almblad the inventor because he offered Mike Rinder a job.  I wonder if he can get those companies to say, although a history working with him they would not do business with him due to the disruptions by COS.  It might be difficult to show damages because it is not an established product, but I would love for him to take them to court if he could.  I am glad he has been a man of integrity against great opposition.  It is heartening to learn of his choices and decency.

I don't understand why the PI did not serve time.  He tracked people's cars without consent or warrant... according to the show this is illegal in Florida.  So, why did the guy not do time?  I do not understand.  Where is the justice.  Are there governing bodies for PIs where they can lose their license?  I hope so, because that is scary.

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9 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

 

I don't understand why the PI did not serve time.  He tracked people's cars without consent or warrant... according to the show this is illegal in Florida.  So, why did the guy not do time?  I do not understand.  Where is the justice.  Are there governing bodies for PIs where they can lose their license?  I hope so, because that is scary.

It was alluded to the fact That Scientology had his back.  If they can hire PIs they can hire high priced attorneys.  They negotiated the charges down to community service and even if he did lose his license Scientology paid him off to keep his silence.

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9 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

It was alluded to the fact That Scientology had his back.  If they can hire PIs they can hire high priced attorneys.  They negotiated the charges down to community service and even if he did lose his license Scientology paid him off to keep his silence.

It must be that they can not prove he put the trackers on the cars, maybe because he hired all those stroller moms?  I am just thinking how it could be plead down to nothing.  You would think the trackers would have fingerprints.  When do actual victims get justice?

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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

It was alluded to the fact That Scientology had his back.  If they can hire PIs they can hire high priced attorneys.  They negotiated the charges down to community service and even if he did lose his license Scientology paid him off to keep his silence.

Leah has also mentioned that Co$ maintains good relationships with the local PD (at least in CA). In her book she mentioned that when she went into the station in LA to file the police report on Shelly's disappearance there were pictures of the actor Michael Pena, a pretty well know Scientologist hanging on the walls. There was a pretty in depth discussion about why this would be intimidating to anyone looking to file a complaint. 

I was surprised at how long PI's stayed working for the church. I mean they followed that one guy for 20+ years. I still can't figure out how that worked. So when he moved, did the PI's also relocate to the new city/country? Did they travel and just expense the church? Inquiring minds want to know. I mean they said the church paid $12M for the work, so obviously its not a job someone just up and walks away from, but still, those PIs certainly are dedicated.

This also answers the obvious question I have when I see hillbilly types flying first class - Scientology PIs on the move.

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Good grief Davey can never let crap go can he? Having folks followed daily for 20 years is ridiculous even by CO$ standards. What is the point exactly? Make them miserable until they die? It’s so amazingly vindictive and cruel but small and petty at the same time. I wonder if tiny Davey gleefully celebrates each job, friend or family member that is lost or driven off by this “religious” policy? What a nasty piece of work! The man, the policy and the “religion”. 

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31 minutes ago, KHenry14 said:

Despite the obvious evidence of Malfeasance, I just don't see a DA, or Congressman or the IRS being willing to take Co$ on. 

I think that is ultimately the point.   Look at the story of inventor guy (sorry forget his name).  He was a well liked.  Well respected inventor who did business with Fortune 500 companies who dropped him because They didn’t want to go up against straight up crazy like Scientology.  This was a guy making them money probably a lot of it but because he wouldn’t drop Mike a Fortune 500 Company buckled under to straight up crazy

Edited by Chaos Theory
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This episode made me sad and angry! Why is this cult allowed to get away with this? How can anyone endorse this? I hope this cult goes down. It makes me sick. 

Edited by libgirl2
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I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but it's just amazing how many different ways CO$ can manage to destroy peoples' lives by using the same playbook. That poor guy, to have such an illustrious career and talent that's effectively ended simply because he hired Mike. And how hard must it be for Mike knowing what his presence brought into Robert's life and businesses. Mike Rinder has a lot of burdens to carry, and I commend him for staying strong and not caving to CO$ despite the endless hardships.

The interview with Cierra the PI was fascinating, and I hope that more of it turns up as extra clips or in future episodes. She looked scared sick for most of it, probably afraid that Mike and Leah would hate her. Not to mention knowing what she was party to for so many years. CO$ destroys so many lives, it is truly sickening.

I agree that the only reason CO$ continues to get tax-exemption status is because everyone is afraid to fight them. And they will continue to abuse the system, and everyone who crosses them, until their financial resources are cut off. Which won't happen while everyone is afraid of them. Such a vicious cycle. But if anyone can break it, it's Leah and Mike.

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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think that is ultimately the point.   Look at the story of inventor guy (sorry forget his name).  He was a well liked.  Well respected inventor who did business with Fortune 500 companies who dropped him because They didn’t want to go up against straight up crazy like Scientology.  This was a guy making them money probably a lot of it but because he wouldn’t drop Mike a Fortune 500 Company buckled under to straight up crazy

And you have to assume that Co$ already has a plan of action figured out if the IRS or somebody comes after them. And it will be a take no prisoners posture that the IRS will need to be prepared to deal with.

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2 hours ago, KHenry14 said:

Despite the obvious evidence of Malfeasance, I just don't see a DA, or Congressman or the IRS being willing to take Co$ on. 

Part of the issue that Leah is going to have is that CO$ has linked up with the Mormon Church and a few other more "mainstream" religions to become politically active. It would have been easy 25-30 years ago for some upstart looking to make a name for themselves to take on Co$ as a political crusade. Today, they are running Republican candidates for office in both CA and FL and have been tied to some mainstream heavy hitters (Roger Stone was advising a Co$ candidate in the last election). So, battling with them is a battle with organized religion generally, not something most electeds are up for today. At least in this way, Co$ appears to be getting more sophisticated.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/In-Clearwater-council-election-one-candidate-appears-a-favorite-of-Scientologists_164964460

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Police don't make any real money working for the city. They make a good living from doing side jobs such as working security at the flea market and some do PI work. I wonder if Scientology has some of these police officers on the payroll - not as a bribe but paid security for events or PI work. There has to be some reason why Scientology gets away with this stuff. 

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  • Well, based upon the midterms, they didn't do a very good job of running Republicans in CA.   The Congressman in Hemet is Raul Ruiz a 4 term Democrat. He's the guy who needs to get the ball rolling at Gold Base.  As for Clearwater, its in the Florida 13th district represented by former Gov. Charlie Crist a Democrat. Crist was re-elected by 15 points, so it would be an uphill fight for Co$ to get him out in 2020.

IMO, the fight over tax-exempt status has to start with these two guys.

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31 minutes ago, KHenry14 said:
  • Well, based upon the midterms, they didn't do a very good job of running Republicans in CA.   The Congressman in Hemet is Raul Ruiz a 4 term Democrat. He's the guy who needs to get the ball rolling at Gold Base.  As for Clearwater, its in the Florida 13th district represented by former Gov. Charlie Crist a Democrat. Crist was re-elected by 15 points, so it would be an uphill fight for Co$ to get him out in 2020.

IMO, the fight over tax-exempt status has to start with these two guys.

Yeah, but I think its naive to think that this is a republican vs. democrat thing. Greta Van Sustern's husband is a huge Democratic supporter and even got appointed to a position on the University of MD board (which caused a bit of a scandal at the time). Having said that, I do think Miss Cabbage is taking a page out of the Politics 101 playbook. Start small with city council, selectmen, local school boards, etc. Run candidates with little opposition and then move them up the food chain as they get name recognition. If that's the plan, its not the congressional seats that are a concern, its all the other smaller local races.

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I had to wonder what Leah was thinking as Cierra was telling them how her boss/boyfriend Dwayne Powell would recruit investigators.  He would go out and meet females at restaurants or Walmart and "because he was so mesmerizing", he could get these women to do anything he asked.  I laughed when Leah asked "Like a ladies man?" and then they showed Dwayne's pic.  He's not an ugly man,  but I can guarantee he's never been mistaken for Brad Pitt.  And by the looks of his pic, charming would not be an adjective I would use to describe him.

I felt so bad Robert Almblad.  I really can't believe this "church" can't be sued for slander and arrested for harassment and trespassing.  They have video footage of it happening and obviously there are plenty of witnesses who could testify to the Co$'s behavior since these idiots would barge in and interrupt business meetings, use false ID to get access into trade shows, etc. 

I would think with all the illegal activities that the Co$ committed towards Paulette Cooper back in the 1970's that this organization would have been put on a very short leash with the feds.  Obviously not.

Edited by juliet73
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18 hours ago, KHenry14 said:
  • Well, based upon the midterms, they didn't do a very good job of running Republicans in CA.   The Congressman in Hemet is Raul Ruiz a 4 term Democrat. He's the guy who needs to get the ball rolling at Gold Base.  As for Clearwater, its in the Florida 13th district represented by former Gov. Charlie Crist a Democrat. Crist was re-elected by 15 points, so it would be an uphill fight for Co$ to get him out in 2020.

IMO, the fight over tax-exempt status has to start with these two guys.

I've long thought that going after Scientology's human trafficking is the best path for legal/legislative action. What they are doing to children (holding them under coercion, forced labor) fits the definition.

Addressing their tax exempt status is fraught because of the issue mentioned above...so many other "mainstream" religious groups who have a ton of political influence would see it as setting a precedent and a veiled attack on their own status.

This episode was infuriating. I don't know how anyone could withstand the pressure tactics Robert was describing. Having people approach your neighbors, show up wherever you go, causing scenes in public places? Unreal.

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On 12/5/2018 at 2:24 PM, Maelstrom said:

I

The interview with Cierra the PI was fascinating, and I hope that more of it turns up as extra clips or in future episodes. She looked scared sick for most of it, probably afraid that Mike and Leah would hate her. Not to mention knowing what she was party to for so many years. CO$ destroys so many lives, it is truly sickening.

 

Interesting perspective. I was thinking that she didn’t seem nearly regretful enough. And I was glad she was off my screen.

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9 hours ago, TiredMe said:

Interesting perspective. I was thinking that she didn’t seem nearly regretful enough. And I was glad she was off my screen.

I agree, she didn't seem to care as long as she was getting paid. 

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10 hours ago, TiredMe said:

Interesting perspective. I was thinking that she didn’t seem nearly regretful enough. And I was glad she was off my screen.

 

49 minutes ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I agree, she didn't seem to care as long as she was getting paid. 

I think it was a little of both.  She realized after the fact that what she had been doing wasn’t just a little hinky but outright illegal and when she was telling the story she hadnt quite come to terms on how she felt about what she had done.  

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On 12/5/2018 at 12:03 PM, KHenry14 said:

Despite the obvious evidence of Malfeasance, I just don't see a DA, or Congressman or the IRS being willing to take Co$ on. 

Absolutely!  I'd be willing to bet that's how they got their tax free status.  With the threat of the CO$ level of harassment,  just about any bureaucrat at any level of government is going to roll over for them. As for suing the CO$, it would be very costly and hard to match the CO$'s deep pockets.

Edited by Skycatcher
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LOL -  I would love to see a death-match throwdown between the CO$ and the Catholic church!  It would be very hard for me to pick a potential "winner."

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I would be very interested to know how many employees in groups like the IRS are actually Scientologists.  Get one (or more)  of your guys in a position of power and you own the organization.

Edited by Skycatcher
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18 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

Poor Robert, he seems like a very sweet man. I hope he gets the financial backing he needs to move forward with his invention.

Me too. Talk about integrity. I'm sure had he given Mike the boot it would've been seen as an act of self-preservation and understood he did what he needed for his own livelihood. What a demonstration of an act of humanity that he stood by Mike. I truly applaud the man and wish him all the very best.

On the other end of the spectrum, there's LRH who had the foresight to craft such effective and malicious actions. It boggles the mind.

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Damn. Even Anonymous couldn't take these guys down! You would think cutting edge computer hackers could have done some damage. Seems like it is gonna take freaking Superman or something. 

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23 hours ago, Skycatcher said:

I would be very interested to know how many employees in groups like the IRS are actually Scientologists.  Get one (or more)  of your guys in a position of power and you own the organization.

My understanding is what they did wasn't taking over the IRS from within but continual harassment and fair gaming of regular, no-connection-to-Scientology-whatsoever IRS employees until they gave tax-exempt status simply to get the CO$ off their backs. And everyone has been afraid to challenge that for going on 25 years.

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On 12/7/2018 at 12:43 PM, Skycatcher said:

I would be very interested to know how many employees in groups like the IRS are actually Scientologists.  Get one (or more)  of your guys in a position of power and you own the organization.

That was Operation Snow White in the 70's when the CO$ infiltrated the IRS, DEA, and Department of Justice among other agencies.  The CO$ was granted tax-exempt status in 1957 but lost it ten years later when the IRS audited them and they had been trying to get it back ever since, one of the reasons behind Operation Snow White.    When it all came out and the FBI raided the church and LRH threw his wife to the wolves.  It was after that they began their campaign of filing lawsuits against the IRS and harassing individual IRS agents to get the tax-exempt status restored in 1993.

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One reason so few people may be posting in this thread is because the title seems quite different than other episode thread titles.

I had difficulty finding it.

All other thread titles include the Season and Episode like "S03.E03". This one has a different format.

Another reason is that I have lately been feeling that we have been discussing the horrible (and CRIMINAL) abuses of this Scientology cult for years.

So many people are outraged and call for criminal prosecutions.

Years and years and years now and nothing has happened except for this TV show. I've been feeling lately like everything has been said over and over again and nothing ever happens.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what else we can do? I fear people have just gotten so tired and bored they are starting to just stop caring.

Edited by MisterBluxom
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I don't live in the States, but it seems a fairly simple thing to do.  They are not a church.  They don't meet the definition of a church.   So they pay taxes like every other money making organisation. The story of the PI's that followed and hounded someone for 20+ years is positively ridiculous - all expenses paid too?!!  And why can't the police departments intervene when someone can prove they're being spied upon and their reputation maliciously slandered in the community without proof.  It's against the law surely.  

The scariest part of it all is the fact that humans can be so easily brainwashed.  It is our downfall and the reason for wars and hatred.  But hopefully recruitment is way down due to this series.  

It is interesting that the folk that 'escaped' all seem very articulate and well spoken, despite cursing like soldiers. 

Good luck to Leah and Mike.  Hope the CO$ comes crushing down.

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@Pondlass1

You are certainly not alone. A great many people feel pretty much the same way as you do. It is so unfortunate that for reasons that are seemingly unknown, no matter how many people feel that way and no matter how many have expressed that opinion, nothing seems to happen to curtail this org's power or wealth. It's a terrible mystery. The only apparent answer is that the people who run the IRS were so badly shaken due to the harassment they suffered at the hands of this "whatever they truly are" (church? business? cult? coporation?) those people may just feel too frightened of having the army of CO$ PIs intrude into their lives and due to that fear, they are apparently unwilling to take any action to close down this thing.

So many people have made so many complaints that there is just no explanation for the reason these thugs and bullies continue to operate out in the open. I'd love to see them get closed down. They surely deserve to have that happen. I'd love to see their Fuhrer in handcuffs being lead off to some penitentiary to serve a lengthy sentence because that is surely what he deserves. But it just never happens and there is never any kind of reasonable explanation.

God Bless Leah and Mike. They stand pretty much alone by speaking up against these monsters and enduring the very worst of all their abusive tactics. The only thing that I can suggest people may want to do is to contribute some money to help Mike Rinder pay the costs of his blog. Mike writes a new article most every single day that informs people just what goes on in the CO$.

I suppose you can also write to your State Senator and your Representative in the House of Congress. I don't live in the USA. I have contributed some money to help Mike pay some of the costs required to maintain his blog and it felt great to do something positive in this fight. It felt like I was helping to defeat an evil menace like the Nazis or other Fascists in WW2. I recommend it for everyone who wants to help shut down this terrible totalitarian whatever-it's-called. To find out how to help Mike,  just Google "Mike Rinder blog" or "Mike Rinder something can be done about it". You can send support via credit card or PayPal or almost any other way. Good luck and let's help Mike and Leah in their fight to shut down this monstrosity.

"Something can be done about it" is the title of Mike's blog. You may also want to visit his blog and makes some posts to express your feelings there. Here is a link to Mike Rinder's blog.

https://www.mikerindersblog.org/

Edited by MisterBluxom

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MisterBluxom (& others)-

Another great way to offer support is to support The Aftermath Foundation that was started this past March:

http://theaftermathfoundation.org/

Many people had discussed the best way to move forward in supporting those who leave with no resource, education, job skills and having been cut off by family and friends alike. The Board members consist of many who’ve shared their stories in the show and been through their own harassment. I’d recently read a story on Tony Ortega’s excellent blog The Underground Bunker (another GREAT place to read as he keeps up with the many investigations and many posters there will list protests or organize letter writing campaigns, etc.) https://tonyortega.org/ about someone who’d been helped by the foundation. They’ve located counselors who specialize in recovery from high-control organizations and have a lot of resource to help. The young gentleman reported help w/getting emergency then longer-term housing, employment and counseling. That, to me, is incredible!

As the more people leave and can share their stories with the FBI, IRS, etc. and those still in can see that the outside world isn’t bad/scary but that many of us care and want to help them get out and have a good life. I feel like the recent surge in interest and people speaking out (watching social media on the nights of the shows is encouraging!) The number of messages flagging the LAPD, DA’s office/Jackie Lacey IRS & FBI re: Danny Masterson rape investigation & Shelly Miscavige investigation was unreal!!! I’m hoping this will have a similar effect to the MeToo movement in forcing law enforcement to take action somehow. 

Also, regarding Anonymous - they had a HUGE impact! It was thanks to them that Scientology stopped individually going after and suing every single person who attempted to speak out. The level of harassment preceding that time was so oppressive, very few would even consider it. However, they were so overwhelmed by the organized protests, Internet awareness and sudden loss of MANY members who were finding out the truth, they could no longer stem the tide of those speaking. 

Anyone with ideas of things to do, people to write, etc. I’m in and happy to support and be part!!!

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On 12/7/2018 at 3:43 PM, Lady Iris said:

Me too. Talk about integrity. I'm sure had he given Mike the boot it would've been seen as an act of self-preservation and understood he did what he needed for his own livelihood. What a demonstration of an act of humanity that he stood by Mike. I truly applaud the man and wish him all the very best.

On the other end of the spectrum, there's LRH who had the foresight to craft such effective and malicious actions. It boggles the mind.

To add another layer to this, other than Leah and his wife, the inventor standing up for and standing by Mike was probably one of the first times in his entire life that someone didn't betray him. We've seen how the "church" and the "parishoners" would betray each other by writing reports on others to deflect attention away from themselves.  

Being raised in scientology, he likely had never experienced loyalty. I agree with everyone who has commented about Mike keeping his emotions in check and only breaking (on camera, at least) on occasion. The emotions this man must be processing. Its staggering to think about. 

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2 hours ago, Jenyfurrr said:

MisterBluxom (& others)-

Another great way to offer support is to support The Aftermath Foundation that was started this past March:

http://theaftermathfoundation.org/

Many people had discussed the best way to move forward in supporting those who leave with no resource, education, job skills and having been cut off by family and friends alike. The Board members consist of many who’ve shared their stories in the show and been through their own harassment. I’d recently read a story on Tony Ortega’s excellent blog The Underground Bunker (another GREAT place to read as he keeps up with the many investigations and many posters there will list protests or organize letter writing campaigns, etc.) https://tonyortega.org/ about someone who’d been helped by the foundation. They’ve located counselors who specialize in recovery from high-control organizations and have a lot of resource to help. The young gentleman reported help w/getting emergency then longer-term housing, employment and counseling. That, to me, is incredible!

As the more people leave and can share their stories with the FBI, IRS, etc. and those still in can see that the outside world isn’t bad/scary but that many of us care and want to help them get out and have a good life. I feel like the recent surge in interest and people speaking out (watching social media on the nights of the shows is encouraging!) The number of messages flagging the LAPD, DA’s office/Jackie Lacey IRS & FBI re: Danny Masterson rape investigation & Shelly Miscavige investigation was unreal!!! I’m hoping this will have a similar effect to the MeToo movement in forcing law enforcement to take action somehow. 

Also, regarding Anonymous - they had a HUGE impact! It was thanks to them that Scientology stopped individually going after and suing every single person who attempted to speak out. The level of harassment preceding that time was so oppressive, very few would even consider it. However, they were so overwhelmed by the organized protests, Internet awareness and sudden loss of MANY members who were finding out the truth, they could no longer stem the tide of those speaking. 

Anyone with ideas of things to do, people to write, etc. I’m in and happy to support and be part!!!

Thank you very much for that info.

I have a concern about people who want to leave Scientology. My concern is this. No matter what kind of good info we can put onto The Net for them to see about how to leave and from where to get help, I'd like to know just how many people who are suffering - trapped inside the prison of the Scientology Cult ... how many of them can even access The Net? How will they ever find out they are in a prison and find out about the ways and means to escape and the kinds of help that may be available to them?

I know that many are told never to look at the Internet and it's pretty clear why. But how many of them even have access to The Net? And even if they do, would they not be locked out of all the sites that offer them information and help?

I'm very puzzled because OTOH, we hear that people are not able to access The Net. But OTOH, we hear that the info on The Net was a big reason why they escaped and it helped them to escape. Does anyone know just how many people who are trapped in the cult can get access to The Net? And how many of them can get access to sites like Mike's Blog and The Aftermath Foundation?

Edited by MisterBluxom
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On 12/8/2018 at 11:30 AM, Maelstrom said:

My understanding is what they did wasn't taking over the IRS from within but continual harassment and fair gaming of regular, no-connection-to-Scientology-whatsoever IRS employees until they gave tax-exempt status simply to get the CO$ off their backs. And everyone has been afraid to challenge that for going on 25 years.

Yes, they seem to have targeted individuals and made their lives miserable, probably digging up dirt that existed or falsely accusing them, with fear of exposure to their employer, family and friends.  Co$ didn't infiltrate the IRS per se, but went after people individually until they buckled.

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17 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

Thank you very much for that info.

I have a concern about people who want to leave Scientology. My concern is this. No matter what kind of good info we can put onto The Net for them to see about how to leave and from where to get help, I'd like to know just how many people who are suffering - trapped inside the prison of the Scientology Cult ... how many of them can even access The Net? How will they ever find out they are in a prison and find out about the ways and means to escape and the kinds of help that may be available to them?

I know that many are told never to look at the Internet and it's pretty clear why. But how many of them even have access to The Net? And even if they do, would they not be locked out of all the sites that offer them information and help?

I'm very puzzled because OTOH, we hear that people are not able to access The Net. But OTOH, we hear that the info on The Net was a big reason why they escaped and it helped them to escape. Does anyone know just how many people who are trapped in the cult can get access to The Net? And how many of them can get access to sites like Mike's Blog and The Aftermath Foundation?

Jenna Miscavige Hill, David's niece, talks about this in her book. She said that Sea Org members are very restricted in what devices they can own and can access. At one point, higher ups came around and swept away everyone's cell phones if they had one. She refused to give hers up, but it was a simple flip phone with no Internet access.


Also, while Scientology bases had computers, the computers were heavily filtered to exclude anti-Scientology information. It was when Jenna and her husband were sent on mission to Australia that they acquired or gained access to an unfiltered computer and they found the Operation: Clambake website, which really accelerated their leaving the church.

Ron Miscavige, Sr. has said that he found stuff after David gave him a Kindle (e-reader, not a Fire) that had a rudimentary web browser on it and Internet access but no Scientology filter as you can't install that kind of software on a Kindle e-reader.

So, there are ways, but it usually happens when the dark eye of Sauron is looking elsewhere and isn't focused on you or what you are doing.
 

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MisterBluxom - the comment above from ItalianGuy... covers much of it. But yes, in the SeaOrg most do not have access at all, or if they do, it’s highly filtered. Also, years ago Scientology sent CDRoms to members so everyone could “have their own profile webpage on the Scientology website” and requested everyone to be part. What they didn’t share was that they also included “net nanny” software that blocked and/or tracked access to sites critical of CO$ as well as searches for terms that might lead them to negative info. 

Public scientologists (the ones who attend an org but aren’t in the Sea Org) generally self-police to “avoid entheta” (negative info) about CO$. But Sea Org members can occasionally gain access and many exes have cited the internet as the beginning of the end for them. The other caveat though is that many exes say those who remain in at this point are either the super hard-core kool-Aid drinkers or are “under the radar” but likely online seeing the other side and just remaining in because they are scared of losing family/friends/employment due to disconnection. The Aftermath website has a template for business cards w/Aftermath information that we all can leave in public places, especially in areas where still-in members and/or SeaOrg members may find them so they have the info when they are ready. 

I feel that’s why this show (& everyone here) is so important. When people are ready and they go online to research themselves, they’ll see there’s not only a safety net to help, but that so many people in the “dangerous WOG world” are aware of their plight and want to help. Watching the “Emotional Aftermath” episode helps to describe how much help one requires after leaving in getting in touch w/personal emotion again, gaining social skills and how much of a mind-trap (even beyond all the other terrible suffering) this horrid “church” creates for people. 

Many who are getting much older (but have been in for 25-30+ yrs!) are discarded to group homes & such because they’re no longer useful (look up stories - they break your heart - of the most dedicated people being shunted off to waste away w/cancer or other health issues) so I hope we can find a way to get Aftermath cards and support info to those in that situation to reunite w/family. It’s terrible how CO$ will discard them, to an extent, yet go out of their way to keep these people isolated from family, etc. in hopes they just go away quietly and no one finds out till it’s too late. 

(Geez Jen... tangent much?!?! Sorry - this stuff really gets to me...)

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On 12/5/2018 at 12:03 PM, KHenry14 said:

Despite the obvious evidence of Malfeasance, I just don't see a DA, or Congressman or the IRS being willing to take Co$ on. 

The government is not going to be put into a position that essentially allows them to determine Religion A is a "real" or "legitimate" faith and Religion B is not, because there is literally no way to make that argument. That ship sailed permanently once they granted tax exemption. In order to do it fairly, they would have to remove all religion or faith based tax exemptions. 

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On 12/9/2018 at 5:45 PM, MisterBluxom said:

I know that many are told never to look at the Internet and it's pretty clear why. But how many of them even have access to The Net? And even if they do, would they not be locked out of all the sites that offer them information and help?

I'm very puzzled because OTOH, we hear that people are not able to access The Net. But OTOH, we hear that the info on The Net was a big reason why they escaped and it helped them to escape. Does anyone know just how many people who are trapped in the cult can get access to The Net? And how many of them can get access to sites like Mike's Blog and The Aftermath Foundation?

 

We discussed this last season. The absolute prohibition against internet access is limited to the Sea Org and senior church officials. Some of them have downloaded programs on their computers that are tracking what sites they go to, and report back to the church. "Publics" can and do use the net - they are on FB, IG, etc and use it extensively to track and report on one another. Publics are discouraged from looking at negative influences on the net, and family members will report one another if they find out that people have looked at stuff like the website for the show, Mike's blog, news articles about the church, etc.

Edited by Rlb8031 · Reason: More info
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21 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Publics are discouraged from looking at negative influences on the net, and family members will report one another if they find out that people have looked 

And don't forget they believe they'll get pneumonia and die if they look!

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On 12/9/2018 at 5:39 AM, MisterBluxom said:

One reason so few people may be posting in this thread is because the title seems quite different than other episode thread titles.

I had difficulty finding it.

All other thread titles include the Season and Episode like "S03.E03". This one has a different format.

Another reason is that I have lately been feeling that we have been discussing the horrible (and CRIMINAL) abuses of this Scientology cult for years.

So many people are outraged and call for criminal prosecutions.

Years and years and years now and nothing has happened except for this TV show. I've been feeling lately like everything has been said over and over again and nothing ever happens.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what else we can do? I fear people have just gotten so tired and bored they are starting to just stop caring.

*Raises hand*  That's me.  I'm just burned out on this show.  I started to watch this episode, and it was same-old, same-old and I thought " I don't want to waste an hour of my life watching the same stuff I've seen before."   I appreciate what Leah and Mike are doing and I hope they succeed, but the show is just boring now. 

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On 12/13/2018 at 1:19 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

*Raises hand*  That's me.  I'm just burned out on this show.  I started to watch this episode, and it was same-old, same-old and I thought " I don't want to waste an hour of my life watching the same stuff I've seen before."   I appreciate what Leah and Mike are doing and I hope they succeed, but the show is just boring now. 

Sorry but fighting evil isn't like a fast food movie version of fighting evil.  It takes patience and often times years and years of battles.  But it is what you do.  We can't give up and let this show falter by tuning out or CO$ will win.  I mean it isn't like we are doing much of anything compared to the people in the trenches who are fighting daily many of whom have had their lives destroyed by this shit group.  The least we can do is honor their sacrifice and support them by watching weekly and posting on sites like this.

Edited by green
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