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S02.E03: The Punishment Room

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Midge puts her impeccable planning to the test as she helps Mary with her special day. Joel attempts to keep finances steady at Maisel and Roth and ends up on a treasure hunt. Midge's act flourishes, but Susie's finances take a hit. Back at Columbia, Rose finds herself out of her comfort zone when auditing classes.

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Well, this episode was well-titled. "Punishment Room" indeed! Only in the end it was the Window Room where the punishment happened.

I get that the point of the plot of Midge helping with her co-worker's  wedding was always going to end with Midge being inappropriate and realizing she is changing as a person, but I kind of hated that they went there in that way--even if it was effective.

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Oh, man, as soon as she stood up and went into stand up mode, I was cringing.  Not your day, Midge!  And not at all appropriate!  Poor Mary. :(  Guess it wasn't just the money that was holding back her dream wedding.  :/

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Joel’s mother having made actual treasure maps to the cash is hysterical. His father bringing in power tools to cut a hiding place In Midge’s parents closet...paranoia or eccentric? 

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Maybe I just didn't notice it last season, but I feel like everyone's language has degraded considerably since season 1.  And I do feel a little scandalized by full frontal nudity on this show.  Not that I can't handle it, just that I view this show as having a cotton candy view of New York, and suddenly Midge is swearing like a sailor and Rose has a penis flapping in her face.   

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I thought having Midge trash her friend's wedding was awful. It wasn't the least bit funny. It made me uncomfortable. The first season was pure fun and now it's getting ridiculous. It made the character seem like a mindless egomaniac.  

That coupled with leaving the infant in the car is too much. Who is writing this stuff?? Ditto the spoiled mother.

Not fun and not relatable.  Thank God for Tony Shaloub's character. 

Also love the mother in law in the fur coat. 

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Apparently Midge has no learning curve. Not sure what to think of Rose and Abe's plot but I loved that burgundy dress she was wearing in the first scene. The phone call between Midge and Joel about the money cache was great - there was an easy-going chemistry in their bonding about their crazy parents. In general the writing for Joel is so much better this season.

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9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Maybe I just didn't notice it last season, but I feel like everyone's language has degraded considerably since season 1.  And I do feel a little scandalized by full frontal nudity on this show.  Not that I can't handle it, just that I view this show as having a cotton candy view of New York, and suddenly Midge is swearing like a sailor and Rose has a penis flapping in her face.   

I did adore both Rose's and Abe's reaction to said penis though.  Rose's gasping "Too close! Still too close!" and Abe's collapse and student yelling "Give him air! HE JUST SAW A NAKED MAN!" were comedy gold!

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I did adore both Rose's and Abe's reaction to said penis though.  Rose's gasping "Too close! Still too close!" and Abe's collapse and student yelling "Give him air! HE JUST SAW A NAKED MAN!" were comedy gold!

I did love Rose's reaction.  It was like she thought the thing would leap off the model and get her. 

Edited by txhorns79
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10 hours ago, Rweyls said:

I thought having Midge trash her friend's wedding was awful. It wasn't the least bit funny. It made me uncomfortable

I had the same reaction, but reading this comment:

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Apparently Midge has no learning curve

makes me wonder if they are going for a mental illness angle. Kind of like a Jim Carrey bipolar reveal, perhaps triggered in part by learning of Joel's infidelity, and also just her age (mid 20s?), although I think it would have to be schizophrenia for the age to be a factor.

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I think a mental illness is too dark for this show. I wonder if we were supposed to view the scene as funny. I agree with those above who mentioned that the humor has become quite crass and sometimes border-line offensive. And Joel's father in the Gojim bank wasn't particularly funny (or believable) either.

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On 12/8/2018 at 9:53 AM, Browndog319 said:

Her skewering of her friend at her wedding wasn’t awful because it was vulgar; it was because she wasn’t a good friend and didn’t realize until it was too late that the whole world isn’t her open mic. She needs to censor herself if only to preserve her relationships. And it’s not the content, it’s the where, why, and how.

True -- the same material in one of the clubs probably would have been funny.

Even though she's facing prejudice as a woman in comedy, she's also gotten lots of approval from audiences -- including taking over the stage in Paris. That seemed inappropriate to me, but the response reinforced her action.  She's so scared of admitting to her parents that she's gone outside their expectations, and yet she also feels generally entitled to act as she pleases. Stepping in to "fix" co-workers' problems -- whether requested or not -- is another example, and she practically browbeat Mary into letting her handle the reception. She seems to think she knows better, (and she's obviously got skills), but she really has no concept of life outside her privileged world (Susie's financial situation included). I hope that if Mary does forgive her, it's not soon. Her marriage falling apart gave her material; Mary's reception is maybe finally a wake-up call.

I disliked the scene with Abe and Rose with the (department head? university president?) for being so manipulative and blind to others, although it showed that Midge is clearly a product of her parents' beliefs. 

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I didn't like the wedding scene, too vulgar and it wasn't a "different audience" thing, it was just bad comedy.

I did like the Abe and Rose with the president and how he stood up for her. She spoke the truth and I admired her for that.

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At least the full-frontal male nudity in this wasn't the kind of guy you would not want to see naked. There's a real disparity when it comes to on-screen full-frontal nudity. Almost all the women who are ever shown fully naked on screen (and there are so very many) are super gorgeous. Almost all the men who are ever shown fully naked on screen (and there are so very few) are - how should I put this - the type that'll make you want to shield your eyes from the horror.

Midge can seem a little too perfect, too good at everything. So as cringey as that wedding scene was, it was necessary to put her flaws on full display. Apparently she is terrible at tact. Not good at reading the room. We got hints of that earlier on, but this took it to a whole other level.

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On 12/6/2018 at 7:12 PM, Rweyls said:

 

I thought having Midge trash her friend's wedding was awful. It wasn't the least bit funny. It made me uncomfortable. The first season was pure fun and now it's getting ridiculous. It made the character seem like a mindless egomaniac.  

That coupled with leaving the infant in the car is too much. Who is writing this stuff?? Ditto the spoiled mother.

Not fun and not relatable.  Thank God for Tony Shaloub's character. 

 

 

I can't stop being bothered by how much Midge's kids seem to be, not only left in someone else's care, but treated like an afterthought.  Midge is portrayed as a neglectful parent.  And her behavior at Mary's wedding reception was stupid and moronic.

And her machine gun way of talking grates.  May not be able to finish the season.  Although, despite her foul mouth, I do find Susie very entertaining.  

If I were Rose, I would have bought that apartment and stayed in Paris. 

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Midge, read the freaking room! Oh my God, I wanted to join the little girl hiding in the corner, thats how awkward that reception was. I do like that they had Midge majorly screw up, and be called on it. Midge is already smart, pretty, spunky, and good at most everything, so its nice to be reminded that she has faults, and she can screw up. Like, in this situation, struggling with balancing her two worlds. She wants to have her old life, but is also starting to get more used to her more rough and tumble stand up life. Yeah,it was all going to collide sooner or late, but I felt some serious second hand embarrassment at that reception. This isnt your day, Midge!

I did actually like the scene with Joel and Midge, they had an easy chemistry of people who have known each other a long time. At least if they're getting along, maybe they can spend some more time with the kids?! Pretty soon, they're gonna start calling Zelda mom. 

I enjoyed the plot with Abe and Rose, and its nice to see Abe actually supporting Rose and giving her the attention and respect she deserves. They're reactions to the penis were hilarious too. They both completely lost it, collapsing on the ground, yelling in horror. 

Joel's father in the bank wasn't as funny as I think it was supposed to be, it was awkward and obviously schist. I am actually liking Joel trying to help modernize his family business though, 

Those record store guys better run faster! Susie knows people!

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2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Joel’s father in the bank was ridiculous. 

I thought other scenes were funnier, but someone I work with thought that was hilarious. I'm glad she's showing some faults, later on, she makes another flub with a friend. They have her so perfect, does makeup perfect, does parties perfect, clothes, her work at store, she's the best, she wins all the contests, the list goes on. A bit much.

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On 12/7/2018 at 9:13 AM, shapeshifter said:

I had the same reaction, but reading this comment:

makes me wonder if they are going for a mental illness angle. Kind of like a Jim Carrey bipolar reveal, perhaps triggered in part by learning of Joel's infidelity, and also just her age (mid 20s?), although I think it would have to be schizophrenia for the age to be a factor.

I think that would be too far out of left field and wouldn't fit in with the show. It's not a bad idea but I think they would have had to introduce it from the very start for it to make thematical sense.

6 hours ago, millennium said:

Okay, we get it, Jewish parents are wacky but charming.   Let's move on already.

This episode felt like the show is spinning its wheels.

In general, this second season feels weird because they seem to be trying to expand the characters beyond just Miriam. In the first season it was mostly about her, and the screen time the others got directly affected her. (From what I recall!) While some of those characters are fine and their stories are probably enjoyable, it feels like a bit of a shift from S1.

The wedding scene in this episode suffered because of how it was positioned. Episode 2 was all about Miriam's rising trajectory and how great she's doing in her new life. They wanted to show that everything not all great, that she isn't perfect, that she doesn't always read the audience, and that her new life is separating her from her old life. (Much like how her parents' renewed outlook on life is clashing with the old.)

But it was too far separated from E2 that the two sides weren't taken together, and it felt like a big step back.

If the wedding scene happened immediately after her takedown of the comedians last episode it would have been fine. Still awkward and uncomfortable, but it would make sense. She's riding the high of her coarse comedy and the adulation she is receiving, and simply carries that over to the wrong audience.

Not sure if I want Joel and Miriam getting back together to be the endgame, but I agree with others that he's being written much better this season. I'm not hating every second he's on screen!

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34 minutes ago, ae2 said:

 

In general, this second season feels weird because they seem to be trying to expand the characters beyond just Miriam. In the first season it was mostly about her, and the screen time the others got directly affected her. (From what I recall!) While some of those characters are fine and their stories are probably enjoyable, it feels like a bit of a shift from S1.

 

The thing is, why mess with a winning formula now?  Especially since Midge's story hasn't gotten off the ground yet.   Here we are in episode three of season two and she's still working the switchboard.   Unless they have very little real story to tell and are adulterating it with filler just to get through the season.

The treasure map stuff was maddening.   Am I the only one getting an "Orange Is the New Black" vibe from this show as the story continues to veer off into the life of an unlikeable ex at the expense of the main characters?  Joel = Larry?   

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I wonder if Joel's parents hid money in Joel and Midge's apartment. Ha! I would be surprised if they hadn't because, after all, the apartment belonged to the parents all along.

I shrieked when we saw the naked guy. Shrieked. I thought it was hysterical and Rose's collapse was hilarious.

"Everyone deserves a perfect wedding"--that's sort of what Midge said to Mary, right? Oh Midge, Midge, Midge. Read the room. I was surprised she isn't better at that, given all her experience at those parties last season.

I try so hard not to compare this to Gilmore Girls, but Joel is turning into Christopher (for me). Nothing against the actor,  mind you. I just hope Joel isn't endgame. I too think he's being written better this season but I really think they both need to move on.

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On 12/6/2018 at 12:00 AM, shapeshifter said:

Well, this episode was well-titled. "Punishment Room" indeed! Only in the end it was the Window Room where the punishment happened.

I get that the point of the plot of Midge helping with her co-worker's  wedding was always going to end with Midge being inappropriate and realizing she is changing as a person, but I kind of hated that they went there in that way--even if it was effective.

I did seem a little out of character for her not realize that she couldn't tell off-color jokes at a church.  That was a painful scene to watch.

On 12/11/2018 at 7:03 AM, millennium said:

Okay, we get it, Jewish parents are wacky but charming.   Let's move on already.

This episode felt like the show is spinning its wheels.

Agreed.

It seems like every character is a caricature of something real.  I realize this is the show's style but sometimes it is too much.

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I had no problem with the male naked body. Women are shown naked all the time in TV and movies, and it wasn't as if this guy was godlike, like Sam Heughan ... now *that* was a delight.

I cringed at the wedding scene, not because Midge wasn't funny but because, as some of you have said, *this* wasn't the audience for it and Midge was making the wedding reception all about her instead of about the couple.

As for the Abe and Rose story line, I thought Rose was spot on. What were these women going to do with that degree if there weren't any opportunities? I *don't* think they should be switching over to business if they really love art, but they better be thinking about advocating for teaching positions, for positions at museums, ad agencies, etc., and for opportunities for women generally. In fact, initially, when Rose was questioning the women, I thought she was considering getting her own Master's degree and striking out in that direction. It disappointed me to hear her talk about the business school. If a man is all you want, don't even bother getting a degree anywhere. Just hang out at the campus bar.

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7 hours ago, Nidratime said:

I had no problem with the male naked body. Women are shown naked all the time in TV and movies, and it wasn't as if this guy was godlike, like Sam Heughan ... now *that* was a delight.

I cringed at the wedding scene, not because Midge wasn't funny but because, as some of you have said, *this* wasn't the audience for it and Midge was making the wedding reception all about her instead of about the couple.

As for the Abe and Rose story line, I thought Rose was spot on. What were these women going to do with that degree if there weren't any opportunities? I *don't* think they should be switching over to business if they really love art, but they better be thinking about advocating for teaching positions, for positions at museums, ad agencies, etc., and for opportunities for women generally. In fact, initially, when Rose was questioning the women, I thought she was considering getting her own Master's degree and striking out in that direction. It disappointed me to hear her talk about the business school. If a man is all you want, don't even bother getting a degree anywhere. Just hang out at the campus bar.

Well, Midge's dad did say "What are you going to do with your degree?" He knew it was fluff for jobs but I felt he would have preferred for her to get something else.

I remember my Mom telling me in her day, if you were rich enough to go to school as a woman, you went to college for an "MRS" degree. I was confused. She said, rich women would take courses they liked, including how to throw dinner parties and although expensive, the main goal was to find a man of your station to marry. It helped them be more well rounded but mainly put them with other men who could afford to take care of them and their children. Always sounded so cold to me but to each his or her own.

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2 hours ago, debraran said:
9 hours ago, Nidratime said:

As for the Abe and Rose story line, I thought Rose was spot on. What were these women going to do with that degree if there weren't any opportunities? I *don't* think they should be switching over to business if they really love art, but they better be thinking about advocating for teaching positions, for positions at museums, ad agencies, etc., and for opportunities for women generally. In fact, initially, when Rose was questioning the women, I thought she was considering getting her own Master's degree and striking out in that direction. It disappointed me to hear her talk about the business school. If a man is all you want, don't even bother getting a degree anywhere. Just hang out at the campus bar.

Well, Midge's dad did say "What are you going to do with your degree?" He knew it was fluff for jobs but I felt he would have preferred for her to get something else.

I remember my Mom telling me in her day, if you were rich enough to go to school as a woman, you went to college for an "MRS" degree. I was confused. She said, rich women would take courses they liked, including how to throw dinner parties and although expensive, the main goal was to find a man of your station to marry. It helped them be more well rounded but mainly put them with other men who could afford to take care of them and their children. Always sounded so cold to me but to each his or her own.

It now occurs to me that any men the women would meet who were art majors would be from wealthy, trust-fund families, whereas the Business majoring men would have to work for their millions.
But were there any men in the art class (other than the model)?

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On 12/9/2018 at 8:49 PM, Bec said:

Midge can seem a little too perfect, too good at everything. So as cringey as that wedding scene was, it was necessary to put her flaws on full display.

Exactly - when we saw yet another instance of Midge sweeping in (on her coworkers' territory, no less) to swiftly pick *just* the right makeup and perfumes for all of those customers right before leaving for lunch, I had to roll my eyes at the "just look at Midge, she's so capable" narrative showing up again, so I was glad that it was balanced later by her screwup at the reception.

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I had to skip through the last half of the wedding stand-up. My cringe-meter was breaking.

No one should be getting a master's degree without some idea why! (Even if the answer is education for its own sake, if you have the time and money.) There were some female artists and teachers in that time...they gave up too easily. Is it too much to hope that this realization will lead somewhere for Rose?  

Sadly, though, that conversation rang true for today as well. For years a friend ran a linguistics program at an expensive private school, and she said most of her students were pursuing a MA/PhD without any clear path forward. They had vague ideas of becoming professors, without realizing only about 10% of graduates will find those jobs...jobs that are only getting less secure and more scarce. And the program did little to help them find other ways to use the education. This frustrated her so much she eventually wrote a book about applying linguistics to careers outside academia.

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11 hours ago, snarktini said:

I had to skip through the last half of the wedding stand-up. My cringe-meter was breaking.

Me too! As soon as it was obvious she was going to launch into a whole bit, I knew it wasn't going to end well. These "real world" spontaneous stand up bits seem so forced to me; they make me feel uncomfortable for that reason alone. 

 

11 hours ago, snarktini said:

This frustrated her so much she eventually wrote a book about applying linguistics to careers outside academia.

I got a grad cert. in linguistics to work in TESL for awhile & then that helped me get a job in international affairs. I know someone who had a BA in Linguistics who ended up as a Radio DJ, which I thought was super fun. You never know where life will take you.

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The more I think about it, the more I find Midge's wedding speech to be implausible.

Comedians can tell when they're bombing - and Midge is supposed to be a comedic genius, right? It wouldn't have taken her so long to realize that the dirty jokes weren't landing. Even after some champagne, when the first smutty punchline landed with a thud, she would have realized that what she was doing wasn't working.

Edited by Blakeston
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1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

The more I think about it, the more I find Midge's wedding speech to be implausible.

Comedians can tell when they're bombing - and Midge is supposed to be a comedic genius, right? It wouldn't have taken her so long to realize that the dirty jokes weren't landing. Even after some champagne, when the first smutty punchline landed with a thud, she would have realized that what she was doing wasn't working.

Yes, and anyone with any sense of time and place would know not to throw dirty jokes out in a church reception room with the priest present, and parents and grandparents. 

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28 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, and anyone with any sense of time and place would know not to throw dirty jokes out in a church reception room with the priest present, and parents and grandparents. 

Well, Midge didn't care much about the Rabbi at her own wedding...

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42 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Well, Midge didn't care much about the Rabbi at her own wedding...

There's a really big difference between joking about shrimp in the egg rolls and joking about sex and shotgun weddings, though.

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4 minutes ago, ombelico said:

There's a really big difference between joking about shrimp in the egg rolls and joking about sex and shotgun weddings, though.

Yes that’s a different level.....Midge really should’ve known better. 

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9 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Well, Midge didn't care much about the Rabbi at her own wedding...

 

9 hours ago, ombelico said:

There's a really big difference between joking about shrimp in the egg rolls and joking about sex and shotgun weddings, though.

 That really bothered me too. I  just fanwank that she drank too much on an empty stomach and she lost her sense of what was appropriate for where she was.

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17 hours ago, ombelico said:

There's a really big difference between joking about shrimp in the egg rolls and joking about sex and shotgun weddings, though.

In the pilot, when she said there was shrimp in the eggrolls, was she just joking?

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7 hours ago, Blakeston said:

In the pilot, when she said there was shrimp in the eggrolls, was she just joking?

I'm putting in spoiler tags because I don't recall in which episode I think I heard this:

Spoiler

I thought there was a line this season in which Midge admitted that she made up the thing about the shrimp for effect.

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I checked the X-Ray. That IS Megan McGinnis. I thought so. I can always recognize a Broadway face.

LOL, what? I know Midge is supposed to be perfect. But don't lie about these "friends" we rarely see.

Joel's parents were over the top terrible. But a little funny. Still, you'd think they would know how to code switch a little better than that. They were completely oblivious.

Midge's stand up was rough this time. It was in a montage with that heavy drum overlaid over the scene but if it hadn't been I think it would have been more apparent that the jokes weren't funny. I get that they needed to get across that she was doing well but I'd appreciate better stand up material if the plot of her life isn't going to be more compelling.

Harry Drake isn't stopping your career, Midge. YOU did that.

What happened to bohemian Rose? She was so missish at the nude model. 

Wait, does Joel's mom genuinely think he's gay now?

So the extent of Midge's skills were her bargaining with a nice priest? Well, at least she helped her "friend."

I'm still not into Midge and Joel but their phone conversation was funny.

Rose delivering her harsh truths to her classmates was weird. One of those moments that makes a joke out of something serious so it's not something funny or something that holds weight. 

Oh, good. More impromptu stand up. I wish they would make it a little more natural. 

Again, I'm glad there were consequences (people didn't respond to Midge's jokes and Mary ended up in tears) but like Joel's parents, you'd think Midge would be better at reading cues. What kind of comedian can't respond to an audience and read a room? And why would she keep running her mouth and digging a deeper hole for herself? She said she lost her filter but she still works at B. Altman and she wants to go back to the makeup department. This feels like a contrivance. And honestly, I think Midge is coming cross as arrogant and a callous attention whore. This has happened before. She gets in a zone and doesn't care who she hurts. 

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Maybe I just didn't notice it last season, but I feel like everyone's language has degraded considerably since season 1.  And I do feel a little scandalized by full frontal nudity on this show.  Not that I can't handle it, just that I view this show as having a cotton candy view of New York, and suddenly Midge is swearing like a sailor and Rose has a penis flapping in her face.   

I was going to write the same thing. The nudity seemed unnecessary and like they just went for it because it's Amazon and like HBO, they can just do whatever they want with nudity and language. BUT I changed my mind when Abe also went in the room. I think it would have seemed like they were overreacting if we hadn't seen the model naked and it was only a moment.

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This is the type of stand up she’s doing. Keep in mind the comments she gets when the bookers find out she’s a comic - do you sing? The belief is that women aren’t funny. The truth is, the best comedians usually go into that place that most people are uncomfortable. 

She’s doing it this way because she’s a groundbreaking comedian. Keep in mind how much funnier she is than some of the men she was behind in episode 2... much funnier. The best men comedians are always edgier than the mainstream men. She’s modeling herself after Redd Fox and Lenny Bruce, not Sophie Lenin. Or Bill Cosby. Thank GOD. Because they aren’t really funny. 

Disagree. Maybe it's because I just watched Hannah Gadsby's Nanette and Ali Wong's new special before switching over to Amazon but while I don't get offended, I think good humor is different from blue humor. Smart comics have something to say. They have a reason for being on stage. Crassness without a point feels empty, especially at this point in time. Edge lords aren't hilarious by virtue of being controversial. I also watched Ricky Gervais' new special and while I still like him there's something that feels a little empty about a guy failing to recognize his privilege and still punching down even if he's "right" to some degree. I also think it's fine to admit that Midge's material is hacky sometimes. They mix up a lot of styles for her stand up. Sometimes she's a modern confessional comedian. Other times her sets are straight up Borscht belt. 

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In 1959 there were plenty of female artists. Why doesn’t rose know of any? Diane Arbus. Alice Adams. Georgia O’Keefe. Frida Kahlo. Also surely the women could have added s few classes at the biz school without a full transfer- a masters degree is a grad program though and you don’t just transfer to the business school you’d have to apply. It isn’t like an undergrad major.

my mother graduated from Cornell in 1957. She didn’t go to get an MRS degree and doesn’t know anyone who did. There were always at all points in history women lawyers, doctors, business execs. As well as of course teachers and nurses etc.

it was funny but the idea that Jewish businessmen didn’t use banks and preferred the Mafia is strange. Jews and banks have been closely linked in history after all. I know it could be just Joel’s weird parents but a little “well so and so is a banker” would have helped with context.

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Late to the party here, but I have to vent my outrage about Midge’s awful behavior at the wedding.  Even if her performance had been G-rated squeaky clean it would have been deeply offensive because she was HIJACKING SOMEONE’S WEDDING!!  Sheesh, what an attention whore.  

And where did she get off with her snobby, snotty attitude about Mary’s wedding arrangements?  Is she really from such a UMC bubble that she doesn’t know not everyone can afford the sort of wedding she’s accustomed to?

 I would probably not like Midge if I knew her in real life.  I don’t like people who are always drawing attention to themselves.  But this episode was the first where I actually hated her.

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I was surprised Midge didn't know people wouldn't find it amusing to make a joke about shtupping a priest.

and that all she had to say was thank you. It didn't ring true to me.

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I wonder if we just saw a preview of the thing that will eventually doom Midge's career.  After all, she's interacting with some real names from comedy but there must be a reason that Midge does not become a star.  I wonder if the same trait displayed during poor freaking knocked-up Mary's reception -- not being able to understand when she's crossed from playfully audacious and into simply hurtful and unacceptable -- is going to be the thing that eventually keeps Midge's star from rising.  Sort of like Jackie Mason's hand-gesture that wasn't, but still tanked his career for years. 

Although it became obvious as it was happening, I didn't realize that Midge would get confused and do a set at someone else's freaking wedding reception.   I had a full-body cringe over how horribly it went wrong.  

In terms of everything having to do with the kids, it is cracking me up that Amy Sherman-Paladino is leaning the hell in making sure we know, "Kids on this show?  Yeah, they're mostly props and something to anchor the narrative, other than that?  children are deeply uninteresting to me, so let's make a joke about how much of an afterthought the child props are!"  

And more power to ASP on the "I'll show you equal opportunity, I'll show you Rachel Brosnahan's rack once and raise you a full nude dude for a change of TV pace.  Equal opportunity your hearts out!"  Rose's reaction was hilarious to me.  She's supposed to be a woman who has seen one other penis in person, in her life, and it was fun to see that Rose might have freed part of her spirit but some primness remains.  

I like Rose and Abe so much as a couple.  

Joel's parents work mainly because of the casting, lesser actors could not pull that stuff off.  All hail the gods of stage comedy.  

I'm so glad to have something to watch that is just fun, witty, and always so gorgeous.    

ASP has never been much for realism, it will not be found in her works.  She'll do emotional authenticity but not in a realistic setting.  All of her worlds are just that little bit prettier, money is almost always plentiful, she digs whimsy but she does deliver it with heart.  

Edited by stillshimpy
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On 1/30/2019 at 1:59 AM, lucindabelle said:

it was funny but the idea that Jewish businessmen didn’t use banks and preferred the Mafia is strange. Jews and banks have been closely linked in history after all. I know it could be just Joel’s weird parents but a little “well so and so is a banker” would have helped with context

Actually, a lot of Jewish business men were affiliated with the mafia in that time period. My husband’s family are Jewish from Long Island (I’m Catholic from New Mexico, just saying). About 15 years ago we were going through a box of photos with my hubby’s late grandfather and he said “that’s my dad with his bodyguards (who were obviously Italian)”. So his dad was protected by the mafia. Turns out there were a lot of relationships between the mafia and Jewish business men back in the 30-50’s.

By the way, Jews and banks are closely linked in history because in Europe they were not allowed to own land so they had to make a living somehow.

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Sorry, but I am Jewish, all of my family is Jewish, both sides, been in this country for 100 years and nobody affiliated with the mafia. Everyone knows there were Jewish mobsters of course but that’s something different.

thats not what’s going on here. We’re shown a businessman who prefers loan sharks because he doesn’t trust banks. In 1959! Which is ridiculous and so highly idiosyncratic it needed at least a line like “come on pop everyone has a bank account.” 

Jews in the garment business USED BANKS.  By 1959 many Jews were middle class and had mortgages- etc! 

The joke that he would see it as a goyishe temple is flat because it’s not based on anything.

and yes I know why Jews went into the financial industry-  but the fact remains a lot of Jews went into banking in this country too. See for example Steve Mnuchin, Gary Cohn. 

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I had to pause the tv during the wedding speech fiasco because I was horrified and cringing.  When I rewatched the episode I left the room. It was a plot device imho. I think the worlds colliding could have been handled better. 

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On 1/30/2019 at 1:59 AM, lucindabelle said:

n 1959 there were plenty of female artists. Why doesn’t rose know of any? Diane Arbus. Alice Adams. Georgia O’Keefe. Frida Kahlo.

Exactly! The whole "9th St. Women" scene was going on - Lee Krasner, Elaine DeKooning, and others. Doesn't Rose read the art section of the Times or visit any galleries? Or is she just waiting for Abe to hand her everything on a silver platter, as he did with access to classes. She doesn't know any women artists because she doesn't know any artists, period.

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