Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
Athena

S04.E05: Savages

Recommended Posts

Quote

Claire's medical expertise proves invaluable, but she begins to fear for her life when tragedy strikes her patients' household. Jamie and Young Ian travel to a nearby town to recruit settlers for Fraser's Ridge.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

Share this post


Link to post

Awwwww, Murtagh! I loved how thrilled he was when Jamie said that Claire had come back to him. When he asked Jamie, "Will you join us?" I was ready to have a Les Mis singalong. I loved his reunion with Claire too.

I have nothing to say about Mueller and his self righteous indignation about the savages daring to set foot on his land to steal water for their horses because it speaks for itself.

Is it wrong that I laughed when Roger got Brianna's letter? Maybe if you hadn't been such a DICK, she would have told you herself what she was doing before she left! Sorry, man. You reap what you sow. When you slut shame and give ultimatums to a girl who you aren't even officially dating, shit happens.

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

I was really glad to see Murtagh. I’d forgotten that he was sent to America. Willie from season 1 went there too, but I think it’s unlikely we’ll see him.

America agrees with Murtagh—he seems years younger despite having whiter hair. I am also glad that his storyline appears to be less Jamie-centric now.

 I thought the story with the Muellers and the Cherokee family was well done.  I think it’s more nuanced than season 1’s “Scots good, English bad” approach. It’s sad but realistic to see how issues can get escalated quickly, and how the difference in ideas and inability to see the common ground can create fear and violence. 

 

However, I am pissed that my favorite new character, Adawehi, was killed off so quickly.  What is this, Game of Thrones?

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, nara said:

 

However, I am pissed that my favorite new character, Adawehi, was killed off so quickly.  What is this, Game of Thrones?

She's like the Outlander version of Sean Bean.

I was pretty much in tears the entire episode. The Cherokee healer being murdered, Murtaugh being reunited with Jamie and Claire, Murtaugh ribbing Ian the way he used to do with Fergus. Just so many freaking feels. 

I'm trying to figure out how deep into 1768 we are, because the Frasers managed to throw up a well-appointed cabin suspiciously quickly. I guess I'll have to assume they were deeded the land early in the year and now we're approaching 1769. That would give them nine months or so to get it together. Otherwise it's ridiculous that three people could fell trees, clear stumps, fashion boards, build a hearth, build a two story cabin, construct animal pens, a gravel driveway and shlep back and forth to town for furniture, cookware, tools, livestock etc., and we are STILL in 1768. 

Brianna's time travel dress was awful, but that's probably the best she could do on such short notice.

Lord John Grey and Willie next week? Blasts from the past are everywhere!

Edited by BitterApple
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

SO everyone is going to show up at Fraser's Ridge? First Murtagh, next John & Willie, then Brianna, & lastly Roger? I love reunions!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

How much time passed between the end of the last ep and the beginning of this one? We went from an outline of a cabin in the dirt to a fully furnished home with all the amenities of the day. They must be miracle workers.

I had to laugh because the inside walls of their cabin look exactly like a couple of the walls in my TV room (which I have never been a fan of). With the fireplace and all the wood, it almost felt like I was there.

I didn't recognize Murtagh at all when Ian first spoke to him, so his reunion with Jamie was a complete surprise.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Lily H said:

How much time passed between the end of the last ep and the beginning of this one? We went from an outline of a cabin in the dirt to a fully furnished home with all the amenities of the day. They must be miracle workers.

I had to laugh because the inside walls of their cabin look exactly like a couple of the walls in my TV room (which I have never been a fan of). With the fireplace and all the wood, it almost felt like I was there.

I didn't recognize Murtagh at all when Ian first spoke to him, so his reunion with Jamie was a complete surprise.

My guess is the last episode was early 1768, & now it’s the end of that year?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, nara said:

I was really glad to see Murtagh. I’d forgotten that he was sent to America. Willie from season 1 went there too, but I think it’s unlikely we’ll see him.

America agrees with Murtagh—he seems years younger despite having whiter hair. I am also glad that his storyline appears to be less Jamie-centric now.

 I thought the story with the Muellers and the Cherokee family was well done.  I think it’s more nuanced than season 1’s “Scots good, English bad” approach. It’s sad but realistic to see how issues can get escalated quickly, and how the difference in ideas and inability to see the common ground can create fear and violence. 

 

However, I am pissed that my favorite new character, Adawehi, was killed off so quickly.  What is this, Game of Thrones?

 

I was really happy to see Murtaugh, too.  He was a voice of reason and the source of a good bit of humor, something this season could really use.

You KNEW that Adawehi was going to die.  Claire has been like the Grim Reaper on this show.  Where she goes, death and suffering follow.  Sometimes due to her actions, sometimes not.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

You KNEW that Adawehi was going to die.  Claire has been like the Grim Reaper on this show.  Where she goes, death and suffering follow.  Sometimes due to her actions, sometimes not.

In episode 4.04, Adawehi says to Claire that there will be a death and that she should not feel that it's her fault. Not sure if Adawehi knew or felt that it was going to be herself, but she definitely predicted it. 

  • Like 9
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

In episode 4.04, Adawehi says to Claire that there will be a death and that she should not feel that it's her fault. Not sure if Adawehi knew or felt that it was going to be herself, but she definitely predicted it. 

Good point.  I thought that might be related to the upcoming fire, but it could be related to a few things.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

6 hours ago, terrymct said:

You KNEW that Adawehi was going to die.  Claire has been like the Grim Reaper on this show.  Where she goes, death and suffering follow.  Sometimes due to her actions, sometimes not.

But they could have given us a few episodes!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, nara said:

But they could have given us a few episodes!

They did- it was 2.

 

Sometimes I forget how violent this show is until I am recommending it to friends, & a few times recently I had to say-don't watch it to a few that I know can't take that kind of darkness.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

My guess is the last episode was early 1768, & now it’s the end of that year?

The end of the year would imply winter--- which sure???? cuz we could see the actors breath in many scenes-- my quibble with that was Claire feeding all the animals--- buckets full of fresh greens /radishes/vegetables and even in NC fresh veggies don't grow in the winter months. So where was she getting that? Town is three days away. They mentioned that several times.

Oh they killed the old native woman. I know by now NOT to get attached to any characters!

I thought it was a good ep -- re-watch worthy even.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

The producers have made a point to say they can’t control the weather, so I am not sure the seasons always line up right with the story, but  I did see a bit of snow in the mountains so I think it is late fall/ winter, & Claire mentioned that the pig was to be a Christmas pork chop so  that must be coming up soon?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know if you guys are into this sort of thing, but I'm subscribed to an awesome YouTube channel called "Townsends." It's dedicated to all things 1700s, from recreating recipes to food preservation methods to homebuilding. The majority of it is centered around Colonial America, so it provides an interesting parallel to what we're seeing in Outlander. It's very entertaining and informative.

Back on topic, I'm guessing we're in late fall of 1768. Cold enough to see your breath but not heavy into winter. 

I rewatched the episode today and I think it was even more emotional the second time around. The reunions between Jamie/Murtaugh and Murtaugh/Claire were so beautifully done.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know if you guys are into this sort of thing, but I'm subscribed to an awesome YouTube channel called "Townsends." It's dedicated to all things 1700s, from recreating recipes to food preservation methods to homebuilding. The majority of it is centered around Colonial America, so it provides an interesting parallel to what we're seeing in Outlander. It's very entertaining and informative.

Back on topic, I'm guessing we're in late fall of 1768. Cold enough to see your breath but not heavy into winter. 

I rewatched the episode today and I think it was even more emotional the second time around. The reunions between Jamie/Murtaugh and Murtaugh/Claire were so beautifully done.

I agree Jamie's face was everything when  he saw Murtagh! And Claire's joy too!!!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

22 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know if you guys are into this sort of thing, but I'm subscribed to an awesome YouTube channel called "Townsends." It's dedicated to all things 1700s, from recreating recipes to food preservation methods to homebuilding. The majority of it is centered around Colonial America, so it provides an interesting parallel to what we're seeing in Outlander. It's very entertaining and informative.

Back on topic, I'm guessing we're in late fall of 1768. Cold enough to see your breath but not heavy into winter. 

I rewatched the episode today and I think it was even more emotional the second time around. The reunions between Jamie/Murtaugh and Murtaugh/Claire were so beautifully done.

I re-watched again last night and concur! Really well done.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I am questioning the amount of time that has gone by though as Herr Meuller asked Claire if she had grandchildren & she said “no”, so Fergus & Marsali haven’t had their baby yet? That is one long pregnancy? Or perhaps they haven’t heard word yet?

Share this post


Link to post

Claire also doesn't bring up Fergus when Adawehi asks if she has any children. But the way Adawehi was using hand signals, it looked more like she was asking if Claire had ever given birth. So, I didn't think too much about it.  Besides, it would've been difficult to explain who Fergus was to Claire without speaking the same language.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/3/2018 at 4:27 PM, taanja said:

The end of the year would imply winter--- which sure???? cuz we could see the actors breath in many scenes-- my quibble with that was Claire feeding all the animals--- buckets full of fresh greens /radishes/vegetables and even in NC fresh veggies don't grow in the winter months. So where was she getting that? Town is three days away. They mentioned that several times.

Oh they killed the old native woman. I know by now NOT to get attached to any characters!

I thought it was a good ep -- re-watch worthy even.

 

That didn't bother me too much (aside from the timing of establishing a vegetable garden and the fact that it looked like a lot of scraps that a settler family wouldn't have considered waste)  Depending on how a garden patch is set (south facing, abutting a building, etc) vegetables can sometimes be grown in the winter if it's kind of mild and snow doesn't last long.  Row covers or cloches can be used to extend growing time too.  Root vegetables, cabbages, herbs, chard and other greens could be fine.  (I've harvested things like that for Christmas dinners and into January in mild winters in the northeast US) 

Cabbages, squashes and root vegetables also can store pretty well for long periods, depending on where/how they are stored (in a root cellar, for example)

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/growing-a-fall-vegetable-garden

Edited by Hannah Lee

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Hannah Lee said:

 

That didn't bother me too much (aside from the timing of establishing a vegetable garden and the fact that it looked like a lot of scraps that a settler family wouldn't have considered waste)  Depending on how a garden patch is set (south facing, abutting a building, etc) vegetables can sometimes be grown in the winter if it's kind of mild and snow doesn't last long.  Row covers or cloches can be used to extend growing time too.  Root vegetables, cabbages, herbs, chard and other greens could be fine.  (I've harvested things like that for Christmas dinners and into January in mild winters in the northeast US) 

Cabbages, squashes and root vegetables also can store pretty well for long periods, depending on where/how they are stored (in a root cellar, for example)

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/growing-a-fall-vegetable-garden

I saw a still shot of what she fed the animals and it looked like a lot of cabbage and root vegetables, which are reasonable to have on hand in late fall/early winter.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I am questioning the amount of time that has gone by though as Herr Meuller asked Claire if she had grandchildren & she said “no”, so Fergus & Marsali haven’t had their baby yet? That is one long pregnancy? Or perhaps they haven’t heard word yet?

Marsali was visibly showing when Claire left Wilmington, so she should've had the baby by now. Otherwise,  Claire, Jamie and Ian are the fastest three-person construction crew on the planet.  

Edited by BitterApple
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

So I was all hung up on the cabin construction last week and it looks like they built a 2 story condo. Ok. With animal pens. And all the furniture. And plates. And candles. And they built a fireplace. 

As much as I do rip on them all being busybodies, the scene with Claire standing down the Germans and the Native Americans was well done. Good job Claire. Not her fault on this time. Sorry to tell the German, it's not "your land" really. I'm surprised Claire didn't just shoot him. 

I also liked all the scenes with Claire and the animals. "Ladies". "You don't know you're going to be a porkchop". 

I did like the conversation about the "future."

Of course, Jamie is up to his ears in the tax problems now. Way to not think anything through. 

So is Murtagh the Patrick Henry of the South? I'm assuming the burning down the cabin is on his plan because he clearly knows the lay of the land much much much more than Jamie. "Hey I have a ton of land, you want some?" And we know they can rely on the Native Americans to frame up a burning. 

Also I loved him coming up to Claire whistling 'boogie woogie bugle boy'. At some point she actually taught him popular music post WWII. 

Still though, I think this was the most interesting of the season to me because I feel like they're going to actually be here for a while and develop plot, as opposed to "he's my heir. We don't like slaves. Kill that guy. We're leaving." in 50 minutes. 

Edited by ganesh
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, ganesh said:

 I'm assuming the burning down the cabin is on his plan because he clearly knows the lay of the land much much much more than Jamie. "Hey I have a ton of land, you want some?" 

It's kind of funny that Jamie was so shocked the Scottish settlers didn't want the land. Taking the tax issues out of the equation, think of how long it would take to cut down trees, clear the land, make it suitable for farming and grow and harvest crops. That's a hell of a long time to go without any income. I can't say I blame them for not giving up steady work to take such a huge risk.

Which leads me to my next question: How is it that Jamie and Claire have been in the colonies for a year, but still seem so clueless about the social, political and economic issues facing the region? I know Google and CNN didn't exist back then, but sheesh.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Which leads me to my next question: How is it that Jamie and Claire have been in the colonies for a year, but still seem so clueless about the social, political and economic issues facing the region?

Maybe if they stayed more than a day with the Lannisters at River Run they might have learned a little something about something.

For one, Claire kind of knows about the current issues and I would think that she would talk about them with Jamie. For the other, it's not like Jamie doesn't have political experience or know to suss out the politics of the region at the least from when they were in France in the second season. For the last, they're on the doorstop of the biggest rebellion in human history, so I'd think they would be more cautious. 

I don't think it's OOC though because they are fairly impulsive.

The Lord that gave Jamie the land only mentioned something briefly about the taxes, so I think having Mur back now will shed more light on the issue. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

So if Brianna went through the stones in Scotland, won’t she be transported back in time to SCOTLAND?  Claire only went traveling through time in the UK. She needed ships to get to and from France, the Caribbean and the Colonies.  Is there a dial of some kind on the stones to punch in the desired date and location? Like Mr. Peabody’s Way Back Machine or Doc Brown’s DeLorean?  How does Brianna know she’ll land in the right year?  If she lands in Scotland, she will need to get her single young woman with no family, no job butt to the Colonies. And in time to rescue her parents from dying in a fire like Roger warned her.

Murtagh ending up in North Carolina is plausible enough (for a tv show).  Same township or county....oh-kayyy. I guess.  But now we will see Jamie’s patron, Sir John and his illegitimate son are showing up on Fraser’s Ridge??  Will the ousted King James be popping by for tea and jerky as well? 

I knew the clash between the Muellers and the Cherokee would end badly.  How cowardly of the man to kill an old woman.  Not that he should kill anyone, but why not go after a brave or a chief to impress upon the tribe you mean business? Instead you go after one of the physically weakest member.  Jamie and Claire already have a potential tax uprising in their midst, and the pending Revolutionary War is a-comin’.  Now this shmuck has brought down the wrath of the Native Americans with whom he previously achieved a tenuous relationship.  Thanks, Herr Mueller.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Presumably. Given that Claire went back to a specific time and returned to her time exactly x+n years, I would assume that the "n" is fixed, so she'd likely be in the correct year, but of course it's a risk. I think it's way more of a risk for her to get to North Carolina than if he landed in the correct year + or -. I mean, the show is corny, so of course she's going to land in the right year. 

The problem is that we know there's stones in the Americas, so there's nothing that stops her from reappearing through them if they're networked or something. I mean, the show is what it is, but the only issue I really have is that Claire hasn't shown any interest in the stones at all. Their legend is known before Jamie's time. That didn't even seem to pique Claire's interest. And then meeting Gellis. They didn't talk about how she went through at all? We eventually saw it. 

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

Instead you go after one of the physically weakest member.

I think it was targeted either because Claire and she were friends or because he thought she provided the "poison" that was used in the river. So it's actually a reasonably calculated murder. The tribe doesn't have their healer anymore. You kill the chief, then they elect a new chief, and now what? 

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

America agrees with Murtagh—he seems years younger despite having whiter hair.

I thought the same thing. Delighted to see Murtagh and extra delighted to seem him looking so well. Loved his sneak-up on Claire. I thought that was perfect.

Almost made up for the heartbreaking moment Claire unwrapped the gingham to reveal Adawehi's scalp. That was horrendous. (I only read the first book so didn't see this coming.)

Can't wait to see the upcoming episodes.

Share this post


Link to post

Not sure where best to post at this point but I just finished this episode. 
 

I found this show on Netflix last summer and it took me a while to get through season 1. I finally did and was hooked. Lucky for me my cable provider is offering a free preview of Starz this weekend so I was able to download all of season 4 for free! 
 

I am of Scottish decent. Even know what clan I’m from so this is a really interesting watch for me. On top of that, I live in Asheville, NC (used to live in Wilmington, NC) about 30 minutes from Grandfather mountain and 45 minutes from Cherokee, NC which is the nearest Cherokee native reservation. They do a wonderful outdoor drama called Unto These Hills about this very subject in the summertime. I have not been as an adult (my youngest child is 3 and I want to wait until she is a bit older to go). It’s very moving. 
 

The CGI in this season is killing me. You can tell they try to portray the Appalachian mountains in the scenic shots. More specifically in the shot of Jamie and Claire from the credits it looks like they are trying to make it look like a view of Lake Lure which is not near Grandfather Mountain. In the woodsy shots it’s very clearly not our mountains because our trees just don’t look like that. 

They did get the wildlife references correct though. Bears are a regular occurrence here and I’ve accidentally come face to face with one too many in my lifetime. Our winters are cold but we aren’t all that snowy. We’ve been in a snow drought as a matter of fact only just receiving our first snowfall of the winter two days ago. 

Asheville just hosted its first indoor Highland games last weekend which I attended with my family. It was a lot of fun! The massive Highland games are this summer at Grandfather Mountain which we will be attending as well. 
 

Last season was kind of a miss for me but it makes sense now seeing the trajectory season 4 is taking. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I hope they at least sent a crew to North Carolina to get some establishing shots.  But even that view from Fraser's Fridge looked so fake.

This was a really well-done episode, though I found it really traumatizing with the death of that wonderful Cherokee healer.  I would have loved to see her and Claire interact more.  I know violence was common in the 1700s but this show almost revels in it.  I was even traumatized by how the German wife got killed, though the husband certainly deserved it. 

They did a good job of showing the misunderstandings on both sides.  The two groups' views of water/property rights were so fundamentally different.  I was relieved the German man didn't try to kill Claire too, though the whole situation plus Claire all alone in the cabin really drove home the point that they were foolish to settle here instead of going back to Scotland where they could at least *attempt* to lie low.  

Of course, the other reason why this episode was so awesome was the surprise Murtaugh appearance.  Though I am on edge that this whole conflict with the corrupt tax collectors is going to cause even more trouble for Jaime and Claire.

I sure hope Brianna actually came prepared, though being a single young female is going to be extremely dangerous for her.  I hope they show how she gets to America, instead of skipping everything.  Plus it would be fun seeing another modern character experience the 1700s for the first time.  I think it would have been more interesting if she and Roger had gone through together, since we would get to hear more reaction.  I suppose Roger is going to be another prop placeholder like Frank?

I have to be more careful reading the threads from now on.  I actively try to avoid promos for the next episode for any show I watch, and there were quite a few mentions of the next episode in the above posts.  I really enjoy reading other people's thoughts after an episode when binge-watching, but I also don't want to be spoiled for any surprises.  I guess I'm lucky I got through Season 2 and 3 without that problem.

Edited by Camera One

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size