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nodorothyparker

S09.E08: Evolution

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3 hours ago, Butless said:

Of course they want children to watch this show! They have no compass to taste or intelligent writing ; dialogue and feelings and thoughts of adults, in a realistic world, full of character's supposed life experience.

That is a huge mistake by TPTB, given the short attention span that many children have in the current era.   Older adults are more likely to stick with this show than the young folk.   The last thing they need to do is to turn this into "Beverly Hills 9021Blow", with walkers.

Edited by icemiser69
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1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

I agree the show has poor interpretations of women, but I never thought Rosita was presented as a slut.  She’s tried to get with one man after Abe, and now father pee.

Yeah, it was Abe who ended up being the asshole towards her and, well, we all know what happened to him immediately afterwards.  Let's hope Father Pee doesn't share the same fate.

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38 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I will reserve judgment on this whole Jesus storyline until Tuesday. 

That's the same day that Wimpy pays you back for his hamburgers.  That is, if you buy him one today.

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11 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I want to see a whole episode of these new villains, just wandering around surrounded by regular zombies, whispering things like "Hey... I found some ravioli... do you have... the... can opener..." "I think.... Gary... has it..." "Where... is.. Gary?" "I think he's... taking... a dump... behind that tool shed..."

And for Gary to whisper "it's pronounced GAH-RI"

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Rosita has been shown being romantic (according to my recollection) with the same amount of people as Rick - 3 (Abraham, Spencer and FPP). So does that also make Rick a slut?

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11 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Father Gabriel is Anglican, so he's allowed to have sex.  

I agree with you about the show's prehistoric ideas about female sexuality.  Men are allowed to move on the second his woman is dead.  But women have to strap on a chastity belt if their man dies.  Michonne is spending a lot of time with Siddique and they make a gorgeous couple; Siddique is a definite step up from weaselly old Rick.  Why can't Michonne move on?  Of course, she'll have to wait until Siddique makes the first move because in the ZA, only SLUTS do that!

Yeah Rick had new love interest days after Lori died right? 

The reality is that the women lose their partners far more than the men do on the show so of course there would be a imbalance. Rosita, Michonne, Maggie, Carol. The list goes on and on. On the other side, not as much. This is why I dont like removing context. 

Also, just from tv show perspective, people by and large wouldn't be able accept a new man in her life so soon after Rick went away. It's been years for them but an episode for viewers. That was a big romance for the show. If the roles were reversed I dont think they would have Rick with anyone at the moment either. 

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4 hours ago, Save Yourself said:

Far out, I was literally thinking ‘oh look, they’re making Jesus cool again’ at the same moment that he was stabbed. 

He was jumping around like Xena there. 

Sorry but I miss Maggie more than Rick!

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55 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

So does this mean that TARA will be in charge of Hilltop? TARA? Ugh.

TPTB should have "offed"  Tara and Eugene, and kept Jesus and Justin.

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3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:
9 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

I thoroughly enjoyed last week episode, and am annoyed that they are injecting so much filler in the midseason finale this week.  Don't care about new teens.  Interesting that Enid is with the one nice Savior guy now, but meh.

The age difference between those two gives me the creeps. 

I don't know how old the characters are supposed to be on the show after the six year time jump, but in real life she's 19 and he's 23. 

Edited by Josette
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Just now, LydiaMoon1 said:

Who was Justin?

The Savior that got in a fight with Daryl on the bridge and was later killed by the Oceansiders.

4 minutes ago, Josette said:

I don't know how old the characters are supposed to be on the show after the six year time jump, but in real life she's 19 and he's 23. 

For some reason I think she looks much younger and he looks much older.

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14 hours ago, maystone said:

At first, when Negan broke walked out of the jail, I hoped he'd run into the herd and (yay!) end of his story. Now I'm afraid he'll run into the herd, find out that they can talk, and then end up joining them, just non-stop fucking whispering except now with added rotting skin. And he'll probably find another leather jacket.

There were things that I liked. Carol and Michonne meeting up. I want to know everything that went down with Hilltop, Kingdom, and Alexandria, and I want to know it now! I liked the cemetery set piece. I liked Daryl's bag o' tricks for distracting walkers. Although not so much anymore, Daryl, sorry. I liked Gabe finally telling Negan off. I think I like Addie, but maybe she just won out in comparison to the two asshole boys whose names I can't bother to remember.

If they had to add some Gen Z types, they could have actually made it interesting by building on the fact that those three kids had been living at Hilltop for over half their lives. That's what the world has been to reduced to for them. Sure, tell me more about that in some way other than the nonsense we got stuck with tonight, but also don't take up 15 minutes of the mid-season finale on kids we've never met before!

I liked that Michonne and Magna and Miko rode to the rescue. I can get with that trio kicking ass on my screen on a weekly basis, thank you. I just plain like that Michonne is getting more screen time.

Please stop making me worry about Dog.

Pretty much all of this.  As much as I would like to know what happened to get our originals to where they're barely speaking to each other and at least a couple of them are walking around with big X marks the spot scars, this is already starting to feel like Vaguebooking.  You know, where someone posts on social media that they're sad/something terrible has happened and get 20 responses asking what's wrong/do you need help only to be met over and over with "nothing."  Well, okay then.  If you decide to ever let us know so maybe a solution can be found, do check back in.  Until then, don't keep dropping hints and making me ask because invariably by the time we do find out we're going to be too pissed off at the way it was dragged out to care very much.  As lovely as Michonne and Carol's scene was in calling on their shared history, even they can't save this.

The thing with the Henry story is that I actually don't mind the idea of exploring how growing up in this world has shaped kids who are probably too young to have more than fuzzy memories of the world before.  As one of them said they remember the war, nearly 8 years before.  But again, without knowing what happened to cause the rift between the communities or when that was, are we to assume the past six years have been an unending drudgery of vegetable growing and never leaving Hilltop's walls like medieval villagers?  Because kids this age can be mindnumbingly short sighted, I don't necessarily have a problem with them having been so sheltered in their very tiny patch of world that they think keeping a walker is a game, but we don't know these kids.  We don't have proper context.  And most importantly, there's too much else going on in this episode to be wasting time on introducing this now.  I am mildly amused that the main camp of Hilltop seems to a kerosene lamps affair, while these little twerps have electric chandeliers and music somewhere off in the woods where sound apparently magically doesn't carry.

The foggy cemetery on a stormy night was a nice set piece if a total horror cliche.  It's telling that Jesus registered so little as a character between his ninja kicks and man bun that my immediate thought was oh crap, does this mean Tara is now is charge of Hilltop by default?  There is no way for the show to ever make me care about Negan.  It's much too late for that.  

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On 11/26/2018 at 12:09 PM, icemiser69 said:

For some reason I think she looks much younger and he looks much older.

Mr. Ouisch pointed out the same thing - that the actress who plays Enid doesn't look a bit different than she did in Season 8, other than her hair is a bit shorter. But according to the time jump, her character should be about 21 years old now. Surely with all the amazing makeup tricks/effects the crew has at their disposal they could "age" Enid a little bit in some subtle ways.

Edited by Ouisch
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14 hours ago, maystone said:

I liked that Michonne and Magna and Miko rode to the rescue. I can get with that trio kicking ass on my screen on a weekly basis, thank you. I just plain like that Michonne is getting more screen time.

 

Yes, I heartily agree. It gladdens this old cowboy's heart to see the cavalry coming over the hill to save the day. But ........ would Magna and crew really do that at this point in the relationship? Yes, they see that Michaonne is a good fighter, but they've also seen her be quite ... moody. They've been stripped of their weapons twice, though they've gotten them back. They have also seen and felt the tension between Alexandria and Hilltop, and have to be wondering what the hell they've walked into (or been carried in a wagon into).

Did Michonne casually say, "Hey, let's go Walker killing? First one who gets ten, gets whatever the kid was drinking!" or did she say, "Hey, let's go save Jesus and Daryl?" to which they would have said, "Who?"

Maybe Michaonne mentioned a dog was involved, and nobody wants to see a doggie get hurt. But, okay, fine, I'll just handwave it all away. Meanwhile, I'll continue to believe that Jesus is STILL alive and any minute now he's really going to show us why he's on this show . . . any minute now.

Oh, I hear that the store where Jesus got his body armor is having a BIG after-Thanksgiving sale.

Edited by JackONeill
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I was too tired to post yesterday so I did put a Monthy Python picture.  It was all I was able to think about while watching this thing.

 

I was afraid of them living in the 19th century...  Hell no!  They are now living in the 16th century... a blacksmith really?  All that was missing when Michonne and her gang arrived was the hornblower.

 

1395734002702.jpg

 

And what about Prince Harr... err... Henry?

principe-harry.jpg

 

Is he going to be the new star of the show?

Edited by heisenberg
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I noticed that too, Enid didn't look much older that she did in season 8 . I was guessing she was portrayed  as being 17 or so in S8?   It doesn't seem unreasonable if she's 23 or so to have a man in her life.   Henry is what, 16? Did he really think he would have a shot at Enid?  

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First Carl, then Rick, now Jesus. Thank you, show. You just made it really easy for me to stop watching because you have officially run out of characters I give a flying damn about. Maybe Carol? That's it. 

There are just too many new characters. This used to be a show about a specific group of people trying to survive and now there are so many different communities populated by so many characters I don't know half their names anymore. The new teens are about the last thing this show needed. And all those kids running around Alexandria . . . who the hell is having all these kids? 

I'm also really annoyed that we still don't know what happened that caused the rift between Alexandra and the Hilltop - or at least between Michonne and Maggie. We don't even know where the rift is. That's not something this show used to do either - they wouldn't drag something like this out for weeks until you're just annoyed by it.

And judging by the promos the show seems to think I'm going to get all excited hearing Negan whistle again. Well, they're wrong. Dead wrong.

Fail on all levels. 

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21 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also really annoyed that we still don't know what happened that caused the rift between Alexandra and the Hilltop - or at least between Michonne and Maggie. We don't even know where the rift is. That's not something this show used to do either

Oh yeah,  they have been doing that for a while now.  The helicopter,  the woman giving a book for music albums with the twins,  if we dig we can find plenty of it.  But I agree with you, it is still annoying and we might never know what was all the fuzz about.  It depends if the writers care or not.

Edited by heisenberg
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2 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

So does this mean that TARA will be in charge of Hilltop? TARA? Ugh. 

*grumbles* who else is left? Just makes the storyline about Maggie taking off even worse.

 

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Pretty much all of this.  As much as I would like to know what happened to get our originals to where they're barely speaking to each other and at least a couple of them are walking around with big X marks the spot scars, this is already starting to feel like Vaguebooking.  You know, where someone posts on social media that they're sad/something terrible has happened and get 20 responses asking what's wrong/do you need help only to be met over and over with "nothing."  Well, okay then.  If you decide to ever let us know so maybe a solution can be found, do check back in.  Until then, don't keep dropping hints and making me ask because invariably by the time we do find out we're going to be too pissed off at the way it was dragged out to care very much.  As lovely as Michonne and Carol's scene was in calling on their shared history, even they can't save this.

And I hate, loathe and detest Vaguebooking. Stupid show.

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44 minutes ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

I noticed that too, Enid didn't look much older that she did in season 8 . I was guessing she was portrayed  as being 17 or so in S8?   It doesn't seem unreasonable if she's 23 or so to have a man in her life.   Henry is what, 16? Did he really think he would have a shot at Enid?  

That was all I could think of during the episode. That little snotface really thought he'd get a full-grown WOMAN? It might be the apocalypse but gals ain't desperate.

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46 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

But ........ would Magna and crew really do that at this point in the relationship?

They may have realised that by volunteering to rescue a valued member of a community, it would go a long way to show that they were worthy of consideration of acceptance into the Hilltop family.

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

And judging by the promos the show seems to think I'm going to get all excited hearing Negan whistle again. Well, they're wrong. Dead wrong.

Totally. They seem to forget that 6 years passed on the show only; for us it was about a week. (Technically, the time-jump happened in about 5 seconds.) 

I can't imagine for whom this would be exciting. 

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I can't believe they killed Jesus. I thought I could watch til the end of this season, then bow out. I don't think I can last that long. I think I'm out y'all.

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also really annoyed that we still don't know what happened that caused the rift between Alexandra and the Hilltop - or at least between Michonne and Maggie. We don't even know where the rift is.

Don’t you like a bit of mystery or intrigue? The build up is what’s interesting, it’s only been three episodes since Rick blew up the bridge, the show is trying to bring us something not seen in the comic but can’t seem to do right for doing wrong.

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After Jesus I am now done with the show! I can't do it anymore. They keep killing off the good ones and bringing in all these new people. Now we will have Tara in charge of Hilltop and Negan out again. I swear if that man finds Lucille and we have to deal with him I may go insane.

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12 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Don’t you like a bit of mystery or intrigue?

The problem is that on this show, whatever mystery or intrigue is introduced, it's seldom ever revealed or solved. It's as though the writers go so far, then say, "Oh, shit. How do we explain this? What's the answer??" No one can think of anything, so they just forget about it and hope we will too.

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I’m probably in the minority but I freaking hate Negan and really think  he is a waste ! He really  brings nothing worthwhile-to  the the series and I’m really tired of his ongoing and boring tirades 😡can he just be dead ? 

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8 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I loved it when the walker bit Aaron’s prosthetic arm. Really show?

Actually, I thought that was one of the most sensible things in the episode.  Aaron has learned to use the prosthetic to his advantage: throw the fake arm up, let the walker go for that, and headspike it before it figures out it’s tasting tinfoil.  :)

 

15 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I know little about religion but I'm pretty sure even Anglican clergy is not supposed to engage in all this promiscuity,but he's a man, so it's all good, on this show anyway.

FPP doesn’t have any other options; TTBOMK he’s the only clergy around.  FPP could officiate a marriage ceremony for any couple in the settlements, but what other religious person is around to conduct a marriage ceremony for him???  ;)

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I could have been all in if Prince Henri was going to Hilltop for school and learn about electricity or plumbing or architecture or engineering, etc...  But the rats have eaten all the books in schools...  So blacksmith it will be.  Anyway, is there someone going to school or learning anything in those communities?

Edited by heisenberg
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3 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

Wow. In reading through this thread, it seems like the farther TWD gets away from Rick as the main character, the more incoherent it's becoming.

I wouldn't say incoherent. More like unappealing, trite, been-there-done-that, pointless. Something like that.

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Since TPTB are dangling mysteries that may never be solved, how about this one? I STILL want to know what that card meant that Tara picked up after she left Oceanside and got separated from Heath. If they could start with THAT one, I would be happy. 

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5 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

Wow. In reading through this thread, it seems like the farther TWD gets away from Rick as the main character, the more incoherent it's becoming.

And also less people are coming here to discuss.  It must say something.

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5 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

So does this mean that TARA will be in charge of Hilltop? TARA? Ugh. 

Tara is the McRib. Everyone talks about it as long as it's there. But when it's gone, no one notices. 

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3 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Yes, I heartily agree. It gladdens this old cowboy's heart to see the cavalry coming over the hill to save the day. But ........ would Magna and crew really do that at this point in the relationship? Yes, they see that Michaonne is a good fighter, but they've also seen her be quite ... moody. They've been stripped of their weapons twice, though they've gotten them back. They have also seen and felt the tension between Alexandria and Hilltop, and have to be wondering what the hell they've walked into (or been carried in a wagon into).

Did Michonne casually say, "Hey, let's go Walker killing? First one who gets ten, gets whatever the kid was drinking!" or did she say, "Hey, let's go save Jesus and Daryl?" to which they would have said, "Who?"

Maybe Michaonne mentioned a dog was involved, and nobody wants to see a doggie get hurt. But, okay, fine, I'll just handwave it all away. Meanwhile, I'll continue to believe that Jesus is STILL alive and any minute now he's really going to show us why he's on this show . . . any minute now.

Oh, I hear that the store where Jesus got his body armor is having a BIG after-Thanksgiving sale.

Aaron asked them why they were rescuing him, and Magna replied, "We're earning our keep." When Michonne had asked Tara if the new group could stay at Hilltop, Tara had said she'd have to clear it with Jesus (not anymore, Tara!) and that they'd have to earn their keep.

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18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Now lets see who you really are! *pulls mask off* GASP! 

This whole episode was like some bizarre genre roulette. We get a boring as hell prison drama with Negan, a Very Special Episode of some 80s teen show with Henry and the Bad Influence teens, tons of spooky fog and dark castles like we`re on the Moors trying to escape a werewolf or Jack the Ripper or something, and a Scobby Doo ending! Has even the show itself finally gotten bored, and decided to start trying totally new shows?

Don't forget the "bomp bomp BWAAAAAH!" music cue that something shocking has happened!

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1 hour ago, Nashville said:

FPP doesn’t have any other options; TTBOMK he’s the only clergy around.  FPP could officiate a marriage ceremony for any couple in the settlements, but what other religious person is around to conduct a marriage ceremony for him???  ;)

Glenn and Maggie managed to call themselves married without any formal, officiated wedding ceremony. A ring cut from an animated corpse did the trick for them, but maybe Father P wants to keep his options open and remain a playboy bachelor. So many desperate women, so little time. Why should he tie himself down?

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5 minutes ago, maystone said:

Aaron asked them why they were rescuing him, and Magna replied, "We're earning our keep." When Michonne had asked Tara if the new group could stay at Hilltop, Tara had said she'd have to clear it with Jesus (not anymore, Tara!) and that they'd have to earn their keep.

Plus - from Magna’s POV, she’s “earning her keep” AND justifying hanging on to her weapons.  ;)

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

Glenn and Maggie managed to call themselves married without any formal, officiated wedding ceremony. A ring cut from an animated corpse did the trick for them, but maybe Father P wants to keep his options open and remain a playboy bachelor. So many desperate women, so little time. Why should he tie himself down?

At the time Glenn and Maggie were just two kids screwing on a catwalk, while FPP is The Only Man Of God ‘Round These Here Parts.  Gabriel might be considering himself held to a higher standard in the eyes of his parishioners.

... then again - Prayin’ Gabe didn’t have any trouble letting Jadis/Ann play a little mouth organ during night watch, so maybe not....  ;>

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15 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Glenn and Maggie managed to call themselves married without any formal, officiated wedding ceremony.

I think Herschel gave them a li'l somethin' ceremony-wise. But I think in the ZA anyone can become an ordained minister on the inter-not ;)

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Just curious; during the Moonshine Mischief fiasco, anybody else get the impression Addy was about a heartbeat away from jumping Henry right then and there?  

Of course - looking at the alternatives (Rodney and Gage), Addy could hardly be blamed....

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Grammar
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4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Pretty much all of this.  As much as I would like to know what happened to get our originals to where they're barely speaking to each other and at least a couple of them are walking around with big X marks the spot scars, this is already starting to feel like Vaguebooking.  You know, where someone posts on social media that they're sad/something terrible has happened and get 20 responses asking what's wrong/do you need help only to be met over and over with "nothing."  Well, okay then.  If you decide to ever let us know so maybe a solution can be found, do check back in.  Until then, don't keep dropping hints and making me ask because invariably by the time we do find out we're going to be too pissed off at the way it was dragged out to care very much.  As lovely as Michonne and Carol's scene was in calling on their shared history, even they can't save this.

The thing with the Henry story is that I actually don't mind the idea of exploring how growing up in this world has shaped kids who are probably too young to have more than fuzzy memories of the world before.  As one of them said they remember the war, nearly 8 years before.  But again, without knowing what happened to cause the rift between the communities or when that was, are we to assume the past six years have been an unending drudgery of vegetable growing and never leaving Hilltop's walls like medieval villagers?  Because kids this age can be mindnumbingly short sighted, I don't necessarily have a problem with them having been so sheltered in their very tiny patch of world that they think keeping a walker is a game, but we don't know these kids.  We don't have proper context.  And most importantly, there's too much else going on in this episode to be wasting time on introducing this now.  I am mildly amused that the main camp of Hilltop seems to a kerosene lamps affair, while these little twerps have electric chandeliers and music somewhere off in the woods where sound apparently magically doesn't carry.

Ha! Vaguebooking. Yup, I get how you could see that, but I'm giving them a temporary pass. I don't mind not having all the answers immediately - despite my earlier post - if the situation is brought up organically in a scene. I would have hated it if there had been a sudden outburst of exposition: "As you recall, Michonne, when the Venusians landed and took you and Daryl to experiment on, but then you gave them baby Hershel as an offering so they'd leave the rest of us alone, that really pissed some of us off." (And I know that you weren't implying that you wanted anything like that. I just make my own fun.) So I'm going to give them a little time to play this out, but I expect there to be continued info dropping in the dialogue, all of it moving the Great Mystery forward every time. I know, but a girl can dream.

I agree completely with what you said about the the Henry story. Thank you, too, for pointing out how ridiculous the cabin in the woods scene was. It was so jarring that I was thrown out of the story at first, trying to figure out where they were, because 1) where did they get all that and 2) how could they - children of the ZA - not know that bright lights and loud noises were screaming "Come and get us!" to any unfriendlies, living or dead?

And speaking of flashing lights - what they hell was up with the Three Caballeros there waving very big flashlights around while looking for Eugene in walker-infested woods? OK, maybe they didn't know about the herd before they found Eugene, but they sure as hell knew about afterwards. And still, everyone's waving them around like they're toy light sabers at a scifi convention.

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6 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Just curious; during the Moonshine Mischief fiasco, anybody else get the impression Addy was about a heartbeat away from jumping Henry right then and there?  

Of course - looking at the alternatives (Rodney and Gage), Addy could hardly be blamed....

She was definitely showing some interest.  Henry is, after all, kind of a big deal as a son of at the exotically named whole other settlement of the Kingdom however many miles away the show has decided it is this week.  But then I imagine it really must suck to be a teenager in one of these ZA communities where your options are Dumb Guy or Dumber Guy.

 

8 minutes ago, maystone said:

And speaking of flashing lights - what they hell was up with the Three Caballeros there waving very big flashlights around while looking for Eugene in walker-infested woods? OK, maybe they didn't know about the herd before they found Eugene, but they sure as hell knew about afterwards. And still, everyone's waving them around like they're toy light sabers at a scifi convention.

Points to you for the Three Caballeros reference.  That seriously made me snort.  And yeah, they were already told Eugene was hiding from a strangely acting herd so might as well get some spot lights and flame throwers out too while we're at it for the search party.  It's not like these things are at all known for being drawn to light or sound.

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I got married 2 weeks ago (YAY ME!) by a local PBS host. The officiant does not have to be a religious leader. It can just be a really good friend who happens to be a kick ass television host :)

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10 minutes ago, Boofish said:

I got married 2 weeks ago (YAY ME!) by a local PBS host. The officiant does not have to be a religious leader. It can just be a really good friend who happens to be a kick ass television host :)

Congratulations!

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