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S2.E3: Erasure

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Lila continues to hold a grudge against Stefano as the shoe shop opens and she goes to work at his new grocery store; Elena brings Lila to a party at her teacher's home.

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Original air date: 3/30/20

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Lila is really like a temperamental artist.

But her muse seems to be anger.  As she admits, she had a brainstorm to come up with the shoe designs when she was being left behind at school.

And this time, her anger about Stefano and Marcelo scheming together behind her back causes her to hate that photograph and inspires to turn it into a pastiche, which still worked.

Another of her works may have been to work herself into a miscarriage, since she didn’t want to have Stefano’s baby.

 

She despises Stefano’s money since it all came from crime.  So she generously spends on other people.  Mama Greco who didn’t want Lenu to get all this education is weepy about new school books?

 

But when she sees Lenu gaining acceptance into the literati, she tries to spoil it for her supposed friend.

 

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Lila is really her own worst enemy. She is determined to self destruct and burn her entire life down. She makes life so much more difficult for herself than it has to be.

Although it's been obvious that Lila and Elena are frenemies, Lila really managed to swing to both ends of the pendulum in a short amount of time in this episode. First she gave two bags full of brand new books to Elena and loans her a dress to wear to the party and then she turns around and openly mocks her out of jealousy.

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12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Lila is really her own worst enemy. She is determined to self destruct and burn her entire life down. She makes life so much more difficult for herself than it has to be.

Although it's been obvious that Lila and Elena are frenemies, Lila really managed to swing to both ends of the pendulum in a short amount of time in this episode. First she gave two bags full of brand new books to Elena and loans her a dress to wear to the party and then she turns around and openly mocks her out of jealousy.

I think at this point there’s still a genuine friendship. I just think Lila acts out here frustration over her life circumstances in childish (she is 16) ways. Lila is totally tragic character; poor thing doesn’t realize how much power she actually has and this doesn’t know how to yield it. As a result, she gets frustrated and angry and then acts out. If she only knew, she’d have Stefano eating out of her hand but she’s too impulsive. I think of all the male characters,  it’s Michele who actually gets her and knows how valuable she is but even if he doesn’t truly appreciate her. He just wants use her talents, passion, and drive for his own benefit. 
 

In today’s world, Lila would have more autonomy, she would have likely been able to continue school, and she would find a good therapist and she’d be able to work through her issues but that’s not how things worked in the 1950’s. It’s tragic really. 

Edited by ShellsandCheese
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I think some of Lila's tendencies to lash out at people (including Elena) is because she is very smart but without much of an outlet for it. She couldn't go forward in school, she is stuck in a crappy marriage in the neighborhood she hates and has never escaped from, and she now has all of this intelligence but nothing to really do with it, nobody to challenge her (except for Elena, who she is also pretty competitive with) and no place to really challenge herself. In another time she could have presumably gone further in school and gotten an education and a career she enjoyed and wouldn't be in an unhappy marriage as a teenager, and would be a much less angry person. Of course, Lila also just likes the drama, so who knows? At least now she has legit things to be unhappy about. 

I also think that her being shitty to Elena after the party was jealousy, and fear that she could lose Elena. Elena seems like the only person she actually likes being around (most of the time anyway) and seeing her with these fancy intellectual types at this fancy party, she could feel like Elena is closer to leaving the neighborhood for real for greener pastures and never looking back to her childhood bestie. I think she was also definitely jealous looking at Elena thriving in an academic environment at this nice party with intellectuals who chat about politics and MLK and quote literature over fine wine, she sees this as the world that she could have been in, if not for her being forced to leave school so early.

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S2.E4: The Kiss

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Elena agrees to a holiday in Ischia with Lila, knowing that Nino Sarratore will also be on the island.

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Original air date: 4/6/20

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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That nirvana didn’t last long.  Two married women hanging out all the time on beautiful beaches with a couple of single guys.

Pinu had confused feelings for that guy?  Considering how rocky her relationship to hubby is, not much of a surprise.

Poor Elena, Nino had a thing for Lila since they were in grade school?  She needs to get into university and away from the neighborhood, make new friends.

 

Nino hinted at problems with the Camorra in Campania.  And probably Italy in general, as tax evasion hurts the country.

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Such a beautiful show.  I'm sad there's not more of a community for it here on Primetimer.

This episode, while paced very slow, was gorgeous, and you could see where it was leading us too. Poor Elena. Still so innocent, but no longer. Her Brilliant Friend, besting her in everything. Or so it seems. 

And Nino, being filmed like some prize to be won.  He may be more like his father than he realizes.

Everyone has so many expectations of how everyone else SHOULD behave or think or be. It's amazing to watch this. 

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More reasons I'm glad I wasn't a girl in Italy in the 50s: (1) being told that my worth was measured by whether or not I could get knocked up (2) having a quack doctor say that swimming would make me "strong enough" to get knocked up.

I would have watched this episode just to see all the beautiful beach scenes.

Elena usually puts up with Lila's bratty behavior so it was kind of nice to see her be petty about Lila taking her books (and honestly, Elena borrowed them from someone else so she wasn't being unreasonable about asking her not to get sand in them or taking them without asking).

It was fun to see Elena, Lila, Pinu, Nino, and Bruno all having fun for one brief scene but it was obvious that all the fun and games were just an excuse to get near each other and touch each other under the guise of "but we're at the beach so it's not inappropriate!" Pinu getting pouty with Bruno was ridiculous though. You're married and pregnant, girl.

I couldn't tell if Lila was telling Elena the truth and truly trying to warn her about Nino or if she was lying to keep Elena away from him.

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It seemed like Lila was being truthful.  Not that she isn't capable of breaking girl code.

After mocking her mercilessly about her school friends, they just seemed to make up just like that.

They also showed in previews when they were little kids and that was presumably young Nino telling young Lila they would marry.  I don't remember that scene.

Nino has been up and down with Lenu, surprisingly affectionate at times and standoffish other times.  She's been a little too eager at times but he doesn't seem to like her nearly as much as she likes him.

Really she should broaden her horizons, look beyond kids from the neighborhood for friendship and love.  The parents are awful so the odds aren't good for the kids, no matter how much Nino denounces the way his father has behaved.

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 We honestly don't know what, if anything, may have transpired between Lila and Nino. Yes, in the "previouslies", they showed us a childhood scene where Nino supposedly said he was going to marry Lila when they grew up (I don't remember that particular line from that scene, either @scrb ) but, they also re-showed the scene where Lila says, "Don't trust anything that comes out of my mouth" to Lenu. I think we have to wait and see on this.

Edited by ProudMary · Reason: Clarification
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I absolutely love this show and when season 1 ended, I ran out and read the entire book series.  There is something so gripping and beautiful about it that I couldn't wait to find out more about the story.  This last episode felt less intense than the previous episodes but it is clearly setting up for more drama to come.  

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36 minutes ago, Jamaraz said:

I absolutely love this show and when season 1 ended, I ran out and read the entire book series.  There is something so gripping and beautiful about it that I couldn't wait to find out more about the story.  This last episode felt less intense than the previous episodes but it is clearly setting up for more drama to come.  

Same but I think I’m actually enjoying season 2 less n owing what’s coming! I’d read book one long enough ago to have forgotten a lot. Which I guess will be the case for the next books.

i mean who knows when they’ll be able to film again. It will be a long time, thanks to coronavirus. 

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This episode broke my heart for Lenu. It's obvious now that Nino has been somewhat using Lenu to get closer to Lila.

But there is one thing I am confused about--in season 1, didn't a young Nino tell a young Lenu that he was going to marry her?

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22 hours ago, scrb said:

 

Poor Elena, Nino had a thing for Lila since they were in grade school?  She needs to get into university and away from the neighborhood, make new friends.

I think Lila is lying, possibly for no other reason than: she's mean. 

If I ever get bored with this show, I'll still keep watching, at least until I get an answer to the question "Why does Lenu continue to put up with Lila? Why does she think they are friends?"

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19 hours ago, scrb said:

Really she should broaden her horizons, look beyond kids from the neighborhood for friendship and love.  The parents are awful so the odds aren't good for the kids, no matter how much Nino denounces the way his father has behaved.

From a 21st century perspective, yes, that seems so achievable, but Elena only has her high school as an outlet from her neighborhood. The neighborhood IS her world, and actually, for many people, that is the way it is until they leave for college or start working a job. She yearns for what she knows at this time. Some never leave that world. I think that is why Lila can be so breathtakingly cruel to her at times. She knows that Elena has an opportunity to get out, while she has been sold into marriage and may never get out.  

I love the show for the look into how women look at themselves and their choices. Those girls were given so little in their childhoods to grow on, but books. Even as young as they were, they understood that learning was key to something better than what their mothers had. But they also were taught that there was a value to love.  Whether that value is real or not is what they are going to find out. 

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16 hours ago, Hava said:

This episode broke my heart for Lenu. It's obvious now that Nino has been somewhat using Lenu to get closer to Lila.

But there is one thing I am confused about--in season 1, didn't a young Nino tell a young Lenu that he was going to marry her?

Yes, Nino told Lenu he would marry her when they were children.

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On 4/7/2020 at 10:11 AM, ProudMary said:

 We honestly don't know what, if anything, may have transpired between Lila and Nino. Yes, in the "previouslies", they showed us a childhood scene where Nino supposedly said he was going to marry Lila when they grew up (I don't remember that particular line from that scene, either @scrb ) but, they also re-showed the scene where Lila says, "Don't trust anything that comes out of my mouth" to Lenu. I think we have to wait and see on this.

I thought he said that he was going to marry Lenu when they grew up--hence the subsequent excerpt of Lenu running home, closing the door and blissfully smiling.

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I really love this series because it's so unlike anything else on tv. I read the books after the first season aired but knowing what I know doesn't keep me from watching because I find that I'm caught up in the show - the acting, the cinematography, the story itself. I sometimes find it hard to watch "period pieces" because I'm so used to living through and in my own time - attitudes are more progressive, technology is so different and has changed everything, so I have to consciously remind myself that the way I think today has little bearing on what I see on the screen.

Lenu and Lila grew up poor in post WWII Italy. Like most of their neighbors, they had an insular existence that was basically pre-ordained. Girls went one way, boys went another and there was nothing about the individual that mattered - who you were and what you did was ordained at birth, basically. The fact that the two girls were the gifted ones in their respective families didn't matter and almost seemed a matter of shame - shame that they didn't want to accept their roles, shame in disappointment in the ones in the families that were "supposed" to achieve success.

Lila can be cruel and very hard to like, but I don't know, if someone tossed me out of a third story window because I wanted to go to school, that would have some impact on me. Her relationship with Lenu is so complicated and it fascinates me. Lila's existence and obvious intelligence has been the primary motivator for much of Lenu's own success, from grade school, really, and I am sure that Lila knows that. I wonder would Lenu have gone as far as she has in school if she didn't want to best Lila - for better or worse, Lila does make Lenu strive to succeed in a way that I don't think would be happening without Lila.

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I agree, this last episode was heartbreaking for Lenu! Lila is like a cat, toying with her prey- destroying everything around her, with no regard for anyone’s feelings but her own. She feels powerful being able to give nice things to Lenu- a bath, books, etc., and I think that’s as close as Lila can get to true friendship. But she is jealous, competitive, and a pretty awful person. Someone mentioned that maybe she was truly warning Lenu about Nino- ummmm, that wasn’t a question in my mind. She knows her power is in her sexuality and manipulation. She knew Lenu loved Nino a longtime, and it was cruel of her to make a play for him. I also noticed how close she became w/ Antonio, after he broke up w/ Lenu. That was odd too, no? 
Lila likes winning, in any small way she can- she betrays everyone around her, but it’s most shocking when she betrays her only true friend. Lenu has shown her kindness and empathy over and over, and given her so many second chances. Haven’t we all had a friend like this- one girl/woman we would not trust alone with our BF b/c everything is a competition, and she doesn’t even necessarily like the guy, she just wants to win? I also wish Lenu would move on from the whole crowd of neighborhood friends- but as someone stated before, this is her world right now. Lila is the only one who has pushes her, encouraged her w/ her studies... so I think it’s hard for her to ever hate Lila. Hopefully after this, she’ll give it some thought- at least stop trusting her! 

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Not surprised that Elena and Lila are back to taking vacations together and being besties again so quickly after Lila so cruelly teased her after her party, the two of them are always drawn together, no matter what. They have a really intense connection, whether its in friendship or in rivalry or (most of the time) a combination. 

The beach looked so amazing, and it was so nice to see people on this show just being happy for like five minutes in the beautiful fun on the beautiful beach with the beautiful waves. The lighting was so evocative, it was all so lovely, that when things inevitably turned to anger and pettiness, it felt even sadder. I truly have no idea Lila was telling the truth Nino kissing her when they were swimming, or if she was lying because she didnt want Elena to have him. I could totally see Lila thinking that if Elena gets the schooling, then she shouldn't be allowed to get the man too, or continuing to worry that Elena will one day leave her behind, or its just petty jealousy, or if Nino really did kiss her and say all those things about being in love with her. I can buy either one. 

Elena is normally so polite, it was kind of funny watching her being petty and jealous with Lila borrowing the play from her and chatting to Nino about its deeper meanings. Yep, totally reading that tonight! Dont bring that to the beach, sand!

Elena sure hasn't forgotten what a creep Ninos dad is. Everyone talking about what a gentlemen he is was a good call back to back when Nino was saying how no one seemed to acknowledge that his dad was a creep because he was so pleasant, and he didnt like to be around him.

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When Lenu rushed over to Nino, thinking that he’d shower her with affections since Lila was leaving, thing that came to mind:

Oh Elena, Elena, you poor girl.

For a time she thought being the intermediary between Nino and Lila would be a good idea.

Ultimately she covers for them so they can fuck.

Young women being doormats is not a new thing.  But Lenu decides she needs to claim agency so she will let Donato fuck her?  Maybe she was feeling sorry for herself, more vulnerable to flattery in that moment.

Though she did threaten him to stay away from her or else she’d have him beat up.

 

I hope she sticks to the promise she made, not to seek out Lila or Nino once she was back home.

Maybe also drives her to get away from Naples.

 

As for Lila, probably the first time she was into a guy.  Would she have done it if she knew how much Lenu liked him?  Probably.

She’s a little reckless, telling Stefano what she did.  For a second, the camera showed a knife on the table.  But like the time her father threw her out the window for being defiant, she doesn’t sense the caution, how violent men could be.

How frequently violent they were in that time, that setting.

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I actually exclaimed, "UGH!" when Donato started going on and on about the heart wants what it wants. You're a gross old man hitting on a girl who's the same age as your daughter.

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The entire scene with Lenu and Donato on the beach was very difficult to watch. Did she think that she was somehow getting back at Nino by allowing it? I know that we don't have separate threads for this series any longer, but I'd be interested to hear something from someone who's read Ferrante's books, about Lenu's thinking on why she chose to do this (if, in fact, this is how it occurred in the books.)

While it wouldn't have been acceptable circa 1962, Lila is in desperate need of therapy and has been since she was a child.

Somewhat off topic: As I type this, there is an ad here for Men's hand sewn, genuine leather shoes. 😅

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1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

The entire scene with Lenu and Donato on the beach was very difficult to watch. Did she think that she was somehow getting back at Nino by allowing it?

I think it was more that she was trying to keep up with Lila. Remember the night that Lila got married, she was ready to have sex with her boyfriend (Antonio?). She specifically said she wanted to do it because she knew Lila was having sex with Stefano.

This time she knew that Lila was off having sex with Nino so I think that once again she was trying to catch up to Lila, this time by having sex with someone who she knew she shouldn’t have sex with (just as Lila knew she shouldn’t be having sex with Nino since she was married).

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Yeah she left that house party to go to the beach because Lila was doing it with Nino, her dream man.

She said something in the voice over about not having confidence.  May not have used the word but imparted the same idea.

Donato also said "you probably don't think you're as beautiful as your friends" and she said it's true, she doesn't look at the mirror or something like that.

Both Lila and Lenu are sexualized in this culture, long before they discover their own sexuality.  When Lila did that dance at the party to beguile Marcello, she realized she had some power with her looks.  But as she said, she didn't know what a kiss was until Nino kissed her.

Lenu did want to have sex but just satisfied Antonio, not seeking her own pleasure.  She mostly fantasized about kissing Nino but little else.

Similarly, has Lila ever enjoyed sex with Stefano?  If they're typical of the wedding night, probably not, though she knows she can manipulate him to a degree by being affectionate sometimes.

Remember also that Lila condemned Marcello for taking some of the neighborhood girls for rides in their car to sexually assault them, even threatened Marcello with a knife if he touched her -- though that just was an aphrodisiac for him.

The male obviously get to enjoy the sex or sexual assault.  Maybe among the females, only Pinu seemed to derive pleasure.  But of course, she realized she liked Bruno more than her husband.

Lenu could do worse than Bruno, who was crushing on her.  In fact she did do worse on that beach.  She didn't really like Antonio but was willing to sleep with him.  With her smarts and some more experience, she should find others to like.

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Does anyone else think that the romance between Lila and Nino feels a bit sudden? Maybe I didn't catch it in the first season, but I didn't get a hint of attraction from Nino towards Lila until a couple of episodes ago. Now I'm supposed to think he's been in love with him since they were kids? 

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Maybe it's drawn out more in the books.

The narrator is Elena when she's like 60 and looking back on her life.

So of course she knows what happened but the show makes it appear like she was completely blindsided that Nino liked Lila.

 

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It is utterly shocking to me that Elena has completely zero sense of self worth. She is absolutely convinced that she is hideously ugly and worthless. What happened to brainwash her to think this? Elena is honestly super smart, warm hearted and extremely beautiful. If she were to leave that bubble of self doubt and put herself out there, guys would flock to her...quality guys (if there are any in 1962 Italy. I haven't seen a single one on this show). 

Maybe she is victim of her time and place. She would be quite the catch in 2020 USA. Her appeal may be ahead of her time. Tragic that she "settled" for that dirty old man/creep. If she wanted to "hook up" she could have taken a 20-minute walk to find someone else much more desirable and appropriate.

It was good how she told that asshole off when she left. That delusional old fool actually thought he had a future with her, in that moment. He is scum.

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8 hours ago, Hava said:

Does anyone else think that the romance between Lila and Nino feels a bit sudden? Maybe I didn't catch it in the first season, but I didn't get a hint of attraction from Nino towards Lila until a couple of episodes ago.

My impression is that this attraction between them is more about intellect/class than an actual longstanding crush. Nino may have admired her intelligence when they were children, but then she left school and they each took very different paths. I think for Lila, it was being at the party and hearing Nino talk that rattled her and sparked something. She realized she was so far out of their sphere, she was missing out on so much, and the boy who SHE could make feel dumb is now making HER feel dumb, and Elena, who had always been a step behind Lila, is able to impress him. I think she was attracted not so much to him as a person at first, but to the life he represented, the academic life she wanted to have, and that her feelings got all tangled up with the idea that if she could somehow "win" him, then she could still be worthy, and valuable, and intellectually impressive, and not just chattel to be sold by her family for creature comforts.

Whereas for Nino, I think this crush ignited for him when Lila started talking about Samuel Beckett on the beach. She revealed herself to be an intellectual peer who was very mysterious to him. And, unfortunately, I think Nino has more of his father in him than he would like to admit, because he seemed fairly attracted by her unpredictable temperament, and her unattainability as a married woman. He shares his father's desires for what he can't have.

And once things got started, yeah, Lila fell hard. I mean, being with a lover who is so astonishingly considerate as to offer to wear a CONDOM (Oh my stars!) has to be worlds away from what she was experiencing with Stephano, if their wedding night was any indication. Add to that the fact that this is a summer vacation romance, which can ignite fast, and burn hot (but not sustainably), it doesn't surprise me at all that things got as serious as they did, as quickly as they did, even though we hadn't seen much going on between them previously.

But, UGH, that scene on the beach was one of the most agonizingly unpleasant sex scenes I've ever witnessed. I've watched violent rape scenes that didn't make me cringe like that. I know there is a complex stew of feelings boiling around in Elena, leading to complicated reasons for feeling like that was an appropriate action to take, and she tells us afterward that she didn't regret consenting, but that man was wholly repugnant and he preyed upon her. All I want is for everyone in his life to see and understand what a disgusting predator he is, so he can lose everything forever and die in a gutter.

I want to say that everyone in this episode is on a path that won't end well, but I do think that Elena, if she can really manage to stay out from between Lila and Nino, has turned an important corner in her life, and might actually come out of all of this better for it.

Edited by Slovenly Muse
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2 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

All I want is for everyone in his life to see and understand what a disgusting predator he is, so he can lose everything forever and die in a gutter.

Unfortunately if word got out about what happened, Elena would be slut shamed and blamed for being a homewrecker and nothing would happen to him. Their whole town knew he slept with Antonio's mother and she was branded the crazy one while he got off scot free.

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I love this show but it can be so frustrating. And while I want to be infuriated with Lila for "stealing" Nino away from Elena, I can't because Elena never, ever communicates what she wants. I understand that she is still a young girl who doesn't really know what she wants or how to ask for it and comes from a society where her wants and needs are immaterial, but I find her so frustrating. Much more than Lila who is just such a complicated mix of intelligence, rage and destruction. It's possible that knowing Elena liked Nino may have made Nino all the more attractive to Lila, but I have a hard time feeling the "betrayal" when Elena just sits silently and passively watches people act around her. I hate that she let that gross, manipulative creep anywhere near her but I almost welcomed her doing something actively, as wrong and as misguided as it was. I do love that she told him afterward.

I hope that Elena finally does start putting herself first and figuring out what she really wants.

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On 4/13/2020 at 10:08 PM, scrb said:

When Lenu rushed over to Nino, thinking that he’d shower her with affections since Lila was leaving, thing that came to mind:

Oh Elena, Elena, you poor girl.

For a time she thought being the intermediary between Nino and Lila would be a good idea.

Ultimately she covers for them so they can fuck.

Young women being doormats is not a new thing.  But Lenu decides she needs to claim agency so she will let Donato fuck her?  Maybe she was feeling sorry for herself, more vulnerable to flattery in that moment.

Though she did threaten him to stay away from her or else she’d have him beat up.

 

I hope she sticks to the promise she made, not to seek out Lila or Nino once she was back home.

Maybe also drives her to get away from Naples.

 

As for Lila, probably the first time she was into a guy.  Would she have done it if she knew how much Lenu liked him?  Probably.

She’s a little reckless, telling Stefano what she did.  For a second, the camera showed a knife on the table.  But like the time her father threw her out the window for being defiant, she doesn’t sense the caution, how violent men could be.

How frequently violent they were in that time, that setting.

I think she understands and senses the potential for male violence all too well.  There is  a self-destructive side to her anger that I completely get, and it makes me fear for her.

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Poor Elena, watching her best friend and the boy she has a crush on carrying on all over the place. The sad thing is, if she had told Lila that she liked Nino, I dont know if she would have backed off, or if she would have pursued him either harder. Lila is so sad and bored, she stirs shit up sometimes just to keep things interesting. 

Ninos father is so freaking nasty, that beach scene was just....ugh. If Elena wanted to get with someone to spite Lila and Nino, she could have at least gone for Bruno. But I guess thats not quite the same messed up thing as whatever that was with Ninos horrible father. 

I know that she will just get pulled back in, but I do really hope that Elena gets some distance from her and Lila, at least for a bit. Of course, they just cant quit each other, so that wont happen. 

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S02.E06: Rage

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Elena plunges headfirst into her academic future, while Lila tackles problems of an entirely different nature.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/20/20

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Lenu got over Nino quite easily.  Maybe learning how badly he left Nadia made her get over it.  Or she was never going to confront Lila, other than obviously that they were going to run out of money for the love nest.

When Lila said Nino could delay his studies and do some freelance writing, you knew the cracks were going to open up.  After the thrill of the chase in Ischia, her bossy ways would get to him.

She’s whip smart, with unearned confidence, but Nino could still be a snob to her.

Still he was coming back to her and she would have been happy to take him back until Antonio entered the picture, who is now muscle for the Camorra apparently. 

 

Lenu probably approached that entrance exam like her life depended on it.  She got her ticket out but looks like her young siblings won’t.

 

Lila is fearless though. First thing she tells Stefano is that she’s pregnant with another man’s child.

 

 

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Oh, Lila. She had such stars in her eyes about Nino and she somehow thought that because he read books and was not Stefano, he would make her happy. Unfortunately, he's just another asshole.

I don't like Stefano but I can understand why Lila frustrates him. We've seen very little of their relationship, but if their conversation over dinner was any indication it's not wonder he told Elena how confusing Lila was to him. Instead of just saying that she was going to leave him, first she told him that she didn't want to work at the show store anymore. When he said great, you can come back to the grocery store, she said she didn't want to do that either. When he pointed out that he never said she had to work and he was happy for her to stay home, she said she didn't want to do that either. At that point, I was like sheesh, what a roundabout way of telling your spouse that you're leaving him. 

Stefano is physically abusive (and it's terrible to see how casually violent he is with her) but I think that he does love her in his own way. I'm not saying that one justifies the other, but it's clear that he has feelings for her that he thinks is love. Lila, on the other hand, has no such illusions. She has hated him since the day they got married and has not even tried to hide it. 

Sadly, she thought that Nino would be an improvement because he's educated but gawd, what a dick he is too. I have gone to events with my husband that were not my cup of tea but I would never be a jerk and ask to leave before the Q&A or make disparaging remarks about the event or the speaker. That's just fucking rude. If you can manage to sit through school all day, then you can manage to sit in the audience and keep your mouth shut for another ten minutes. 

And somehow it's Lila's fault that his article didn't get published? Sure, Jan. He was pretty judgmental for someone without a job who was living in an apartment that his married girlfriend paid for.

Of course Nino is the kind of asshole who sleeps with a married woman, gets her pregnant, and then ditches her. Fuck off, Nino. 

Wow, Lila really goes out of her way to provoke Stefano. First just flat out telling him that she didn't love him or like him and then coming back and announcing that she was pregnant with someone else's kid. I still don't like Stefano, but I felt bad for him when he smiled thinking that he was going to be a father and then Lila dashing his hopes a second later.

Is there anyone with a penis on this show who isn't in love with Lila? Now Enzo too?

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I wonder how closely the show is going to follow the books? There are some significant differences in what happened in this episode and last between Lila, Nino, Lenu, and Nino's father that would alter the flavor of this show.  

Still a wondrous television creation though.  And, as much as it's difficult to excuse Stefano's mistreatment of Lila, sometimes you see how much she tortures him.   

Edited by cardigirl
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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Is there anyone with a penis on this show who isn't in love with Lila? Now Enzo too?

That was ridiculous, him confessing he’s also loved her since childhood. Come’on! Though, him bringing her home to her husband and to her life of repression doesn’t exactly exhibit this all consuming love, imo. I appreciated what Pasquale said and, at this point, he’s the only neighborhood boy I can still root for,

After dragging her secret lover out of hiding from the back room of her husband’s shoe store, watching Lila gush to Lenú that money and schooling didn’t matter to them, they’d just live on love(!), you just knew it was all going fall apart. Lila tasting real attraction and sex without rape and with a man who is so different than the men in her life, her age and naïveté really came through. But insecure men are not just of one class or one level of education. Nino has shown before with Lenú how threatened he is by others’ success or intellect. Lila was a challenge, an enigma, clay he could mold for himself. Once Lila was beyond that, once Nino was not succeeding, the little love nest lost its appeal very quickly. 

I really loved how they filmed Lenù’s reaction to seeing Lila again and finding out about her and Nino still being together. How everything was out of focus, how it rocked whatever balance she had been maintaining all this time she stayed away from them, and once again, Lila helped fuel her fire, burning away her insecurities that she wasn’t good enough for the school in Pisa, because screw that, she was getting out. Well, that, and, you know, that mom killing herself. I really look forward to seeing Lenú having a life outside of the neighborhood, independent of Lila(for a little while, at least). 

I can’t say I felt for Stefano. I’m sure he loves Lila in his own messed up way, and it’s been illustrated again and again that being a brute is perfectly acceptable husband behavior in their families. But that doesn’t mean Lila has to accept or ever embrace the man who brutally raped her on their wedding night, who betrayed the partnership she thought they were getting into when they decided to get married. Stefano doesn’t get it, doesn’t see why everything he has done and given her since then doesn’t win her love and affection. But I get it. For his own pride, she knows he’ll embrace this baby and Lila will be able to use it as another manipulation tactic. In her position, she needs to have some kind of power play. 

Edited by VagueDisclaimer
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My heart broke when Lenu's mother gave her the money.  She's just so proud and sad/frustrated at the same time.  I feel bad for the other siblings who know they won't have the same opportunities of Lenu.  

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On 4/21/2020 at 9:49 AM, cardigirl said:

Still a wondrous television creation though.  And, as much as it's difficult to excuse Stefano's mistreatment of Lila, sometimes you see how much she tortures him.   

The abuse doesn't make much sense.  All she would have had to do is tell him one more time and he will never see her again.  She was able to get everything else she wanted.  I guess it's probably because Lila sees it as normal behavior because she grew up with it.  

Ii wish the show would have less focus on the Lila character and more on the others.  

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This show is beautiful, and I'll see it thru this season, but it's also so ugly and brutal and maddening. There is no one to root for, really, not even Elena, who is just so passive and mute. There is not, so far, one single redeemable male in all of this particular version of Italy. And yes, why is every single man she meets in love with Lila? I fail to see any reason.

I've read some synopses of the future books, and it just seems like it all gets even bleaker. I don't know if I can hang.

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On 4/21/2020 at 1:54 PM, Jamaraz said:

My heart broke when Lenu's mother gave her the money.  She's just so proud and sad/frustrated at the same time.  I feel bad for the other siblings who know they won't have the same opportunities of Lenu.  

Ugh I felt so sad when her little sister asked her if she could go to Pisa with her. I am glad that Lenu is getting out, but its so sad that her siblings almost certainly wont get those opportunities. 

Not too surprisingly, Lila and Ninos plan to run away and live on the power of love didn't work out the way they planned. Lila was so excited to be with someone so outwardly different than Stefano, but really he wasn't the dream guy she was hoping to find. Its sad, when Nino was a kid he couldn't stand his father and thought he was a scumbag who pretended to be a gentlemen but who really treated women like crap, but he grew up to be rather similar. Lila is very smart, but also has a lot of naivete and rather unearned confidence that lets her think she can handle things when she really doesn't have any kind of plan. 

Stefano is an abusive jerk who I dont like and I dont want Lila to be with him anymore, as their marriage is a total trainwreck, but I do end up getting why he feels so confused by her, and can even feel a bit bad for him from time to time. He really does seem baffled by Lila, who I think he does love in his way, who frequently sends mixed signals and seems to deliberately provoke him but then comes back and is nice again. Not that it excuses his behavior, but he is so happy when she even throws him a crumb of affection, which makes it often so frustrating that Lila wont just put in the veneer of putting an effort into their relationship, at least until she can actually figure out a real way to get away. Her life would just be so much easier. I even felt a bit bad for him when Lila said she was pregnant and he looked so happy, and then she said it wasn't his. Seriously Lila, just make things a bit easier, at least for now!

So now Enzo has joined the "been in love with Lila forever" club? God, does she secrete pheromones that make men fall in love with her or what? I guess I get it, as she is very different than most women they know from the neighborhood, and her new haircut is pretty groovy, but come on!

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4 hours ago, luna1122 said:

This show is beautiful, and I'll see it thru this season, but it's also so ugly and brutal and maddening. There is no one to root for, really, not even Elena, who is just so passive and mute. There is not, so far, one single redeemable male in all of this particular version of Italy. And yes, why is every single man she meets in love with Lila? I fail to see any reason.

I've read some synopses of the future books, and it just seems like it all gets even bleaker. I don't know if I can hang.

Maybe that's the appeal of the books, that these two women triumph over these circumstances, starting from the time they were little girls.

Or at least Elena does, because her narration is that of an older woman, who had achieved both personally and professionally, found a measure of satisfaction and perhaps happiness.

As this last episode shows, Elena is probably going to be the only one who makes it out among her family.  Makes me wonder if she shouldn't have tried to tutor and encourage her younger sisters to concentrate on academics but she herself wasn't certain that going to university and career would be an option for her.

And Lila, despite how Nino turned out to be, discovered men could be different than Stefano and Marcello.  

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S2.E7: The Secret Notebooks

Quote

In reading Lila's private diaries, Elena, now an accomplished college student, realizes how much her friend's new role has changed her.

Promo:

Original air date: 4/27/20

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