Harry Potter

[Athena]

This thread has a spoiler tag so no need to hide things once things have been widely released. Thanks! 

[cesstar]

I debated whether to read this because I didn't want to taint my memories of HP but the lure of re-visiting the world was too strong!

And once I got over my disappointment that it is literally just the script to the play and that I wasn't going to be able to feast on Rowling's descriptions of magic and character emotions/motivations - I enjoyed it. I think seeing it as the actual play with the spectacle and illusions of magic and the nuances of character building etc would be a wonderful experience.

I liked the character of Scorpius, he was full of charm and humour and a self-awareness that little Albus certainly could have done with. I didn't think that Harry was a terrible father, he came across to me as someone who was trying very hard to connect with his son but made some mistakes along the way like all parents do.  I loved that Ron had taken on the role of primary care-giver with his children, that showed such character growth for him I thought to be confident and happy and secure in who he was and in his relationship with Hermione.

I could take or leave the Voldemort related twist and think it would have worked just as well if the villain was a committed death eater who wanted to bring him back. 

[scarynikki12]

I would like to point out that Weasley's Wizard Wheezes was shown to be extremely profitable right out of the gate so I think it was a smart move for Ron (who always had a complex about being poor).  I remember when Rowling talked about everyone's post-series jobs and mentioned Ron going from the Ministry to the shop and she said that it started as Ron being supportive towards George (he seemed to be closest to the twins throughout the series) and then it turned out to be a good fit.  Ron only showed interest in being an Auror because fake Mad-Eye said that it would be a good fit for Harry and Hermione and he wanted to be seen as clever and capable as they were.  I like that the play continues that career path for him.

Moving on.  I do not, for one second, believe that Delphi is Voldemort's daughter.  And I'm not stating that because it contradicts my long held belief that he was a virgin.  I can buy that Bellatrix gave birth during book 7 because, if memory serves, we only saw her one time before Malfoy Manor and it was when she was seated at the table in chapter 1.  Tonks mentions battling her during the Seven Potters scene but Harry didn't see her so neither did we.  Plus, Bellatrix would have been in the early stages of pregnancy in those events and wouldn't have been noticeably showing.  The timing for a pregnancy works and I also believe that her Voldemort obsession is strong enough that she probably fantasized about him when she and her husband were together.  We know that Azkaban was described as driving the inmates mad thanks to the Dementors so I can see newly pregnant Bellatrix instantly believing that one of her fantasies came true.  Her husband was equally mad and obsessed with Voldemort so he would have been delighted, honored, and also ready to believe it to be true. 

I can buy that the Rowles were maybe ready to believe due to their devotion to Voldemort and the reveal that she naturally spoke Parseltongue would have erased any secret doubts they might have had.  That natural ability is described as being rare but, as mentioned above, it's not impossible and the coincidence would have worked in her favor growing up surrounded by Death Eaters.

Purely spec, but I wonder if the reason there were rumors about Scorpius was due to Lucius.  Not that he started or believed them but what if he dropped some well placed hints to select individuals about Delphi (because he did secretly prefer a world without Voldemort) only to see them think he was talking about his own grandchild and, like a game of Telephone, the story spiraled until it became the Time-Turner version that was generally told/accepted.  And Lucius likes to maneuver in the shadows and wouldn't want to place himself in the sights of the few Death Eaters/sympathizers who weren't in prison so he wouldn't just go around telling everyone directly.

I did enjoy the story very much and it only reinforces my determination to see it on stage.

[Zuleikha]

I liked the story a lot, too. I didn't think Harry was shown to be a bad father. He apparently has a great relationship with James and Lily. But parenting is complex, and it makes sense that with three kids, one of the kids is going to be harder to connect to. I liked the parallels among Scorpius, Delphi, and Albus--all of them having issues with their heritage and all of them dealing with it in their own ways.

I do wish we got a bit more with Delphi, though. There's suggestions she had a horrible upbringing similar to Harry's and of course, who knows if it's really true that she's Voldemort's direct heir. I know she killed someone, but I didn't think she was clearly unredeemable.

Things I didn't like were that Ginny continued to be just sort of there. Albus didn't seem to care about his relationship with her at all, and it was unclear what she did/didn't do with trying to help Albus deal with tougher times at Hogwarts. Likewise, James' apparent popularity didn't rub off on Albus at all? It was long as was, but I wish it had either all taken place in Year 1 or had fleshed out a bit more why Albus was so isolated. I'm really not sure why it didn't all take place in Year 1, actually. It doesn't seem like the accelerated time was necessary or added.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I didn't have an issue with Ron quitting his ministry job as an auror to work with George. Not everyone is cut out to work for the government. Even if you are doing cool stuff like tracking down artifacts, there is still a lot of paperwork and protocol which some people will chafe against. Considering that it seems like at least half of the bakeries/bars/restaurants in SF/Berkeley/Oakland seem to be opened by people who used to be lawyers, I can see Ron deciding that he didn't want to stay at a ministry job. That doesn't make him stupid or inferior to Hermione and Harry though. Working with George means that he gets to use magic for fun (and profit) while continuing Fred's legacy so I can definitely see the appeal for him there.

One reason that this book/script felt like a cash grab to me was the length. Remember when we used to get 500 page books and everyone would stay up all night to read it? The Cursed Child looks like it's the length of a regular hardback book but once you take out all of the play credits, author bios, etc. the actual text is only 300 pages long. Then take into account all the double spacing due to the play format. It took me less than two hours to read the entire thing so the length of the text is probably about 150 pages of a regular book.

The other thing that made it feel like she's just cashing in is that the time travel stuff was so run of the mill. I mean, look how many tv shows/movies have complex time travel plots/rules. The Cursed Child was just whoops, this time turner only lets us stay for five minutes so we can't dillydally! Then, like a crappy tv show, they disregarded an established rule later in the book. When Delphi used the time turner for the last time to go to 1981, suddenly it was okay for them to stay for more than five minutes before they got sucked back into the present. And why did this book refer to the Ministry for Magic and the Minister for Magic? In the previous books, they were called the Ministry OF Magic and the Minister OF Magic. These kinds of careless mistakes annoy me.

[ApathyMonger]

1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One reason that this book/script felt like a cash grab to me was the length. Remember when we used to get 500 page books and everyone would stay up all night to read it? The Cursed Child looks like it's the length of a regular hardback book but once you take out all of the play credits, author bios, etc. the actual text is only 300 pages long. Then take into account all the double spacing due to the play format. It took me less than two hours to read the entire thing so the length of the text is probably about 150 pages of a regular book.

It's a play! It can't be ten hours long.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I liked the story a lot, too. I didn't think Harry was shown to be a bad father. He apparently has a great relationship with James and Lily. But parenting is complex, and it makes sense that with three kids, one of the kids is going to be harder to connect to. I liked the parallels among Scorpius, Delphi, and Albus--all of them having issues with their heritage and all of them dealing with it in their own ways.

 

Thank you! I'm so glad I'm not the only person that felt this way. I was appalled at how many "Harry's a shitty dad" posts were on Tumblr. A guy that grew up with the Dursleys had had to deal with so much emotional trauma isn't going to magically grow up to be the perfect father. Besides, even the best parents find it hard to connect with moody, resentful teenagers. Not to mention Al's obvious middle child syndrome.

My shipper heart loved everything Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny.

Albus and Scorpius' friendship was the best. Proof that not all Slytherins grow up to be evil! How refreshing! Although I was screaming "YOU MORONS!" when they kept messing with the past.

[ApathyMonger]

One thing that annoyed me: the blanket that's so important to Harry, which he apparently needs to be with on Halloween every year... but which was, AFAIK, never mentioned before.

[Demented Daisy]

Re: Harry is a terrible father -- it's not about making mistakes.  Yeah, we all do that.  It's about realizing you've made a mistake, figuring out why, and learning from it.  Harry didn't do that.  Of course he had the knee-jerk "I didn't mean what I said" reaction, but he did.  He meant it when he told Albus he wished he had a different son.  

From that moment on, he should have examined himself and tried to figure out why he wanted a different son.  Then figured out how to love the son he had, not the son he wanted Albus to be.  I'm not convinced he ever did that, even after the danger had passed.

For what it's worth, Ginny was zero help in that department, which annoys me greatly.

[blueray]

45 minutes ago, ApathyMonger said:

One thing that annoyed me: the blanket that's so important to Harry, which he apparently needs to be with on Halloween every year... but which was, AFAIK, never mentioned before.

He didn't get it until after Protunia (sp) died and Dudley sent it to him.

I liked it but it not nearly as good as the books. I feel like while I love time travel it was a bit annoying that it didn't follow the rules set in the books. Harry and Hermione didn't change anything when they went back, actually they always went back.That being said I did like it, and I totally got a Back to the Future 2 vive when Scorpius was in that one alternate reality when everything sucked. I liked Albus and Scorpius friendship. It was weird to see  Malfoy helping them though.

It did take a lot to get used to the play format, especially when it just jumped scenes without much warning. Also how the beginning quickly jumps to them being fourth years.

Edited August 1, 2016 by blueray

[ApathyMonger]

54 minutes ago, blueray said:

I liked it but it not nearly as good as the books. I feel like while I love time travel it was a bit annoying that it didn't follow the rules set in the books. Harry and Hermione didn't change anything when they went back, actually they always went back.That being said I did like it, and I totally got a Back to the Future 2 vive when Scorpius was in that one alternate reality when everything sucked. I liked Albus and Scorpius friendship. It was weird to see  Malfoy helping them though.

Yeah, I guess the five-hour rule and it being a new design is put in there to explain that away.

[starri]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And why did this book refer to the Ministry for Magic and the Minister for Magic?

It's a British thing.  Cabinet secretaries are usually Secretary for _______.

I'm probably the only person, and maybe it was just the lack of a Hermione-like character, and the fact that the "love interests" were mostly offscreen, but I genuinely felt like this was a story about two teenagers who don't know they're gay yet.

[Zuleikha]

You are NOT the only person. I was genuinely wondering if we were going to get a Scorpius/Albus realizing they were in love at the end, especially after Delphi's turn was revealed. I was fairly disappointed that didn't happen because that was one intense best friendship.

Then, like a crappy tv show, they disregarded an established rule later in the book. When Delphi used the time turner for the last time to go to 1981, suddenly it was okay for them to stay for more than five minutes before they got sucked back into the present.

That's addressed in the text. Delphi destroyed the Time Turner, stranding them in the past. Hermione, Harry, et al don't have to worry about the 5-minute rule because they're using the perfected Time Turner rather than the flawed prototype. 

One reason that this book/script felt like a cash grab to me was the length.

Well, yes, it was a cash grab because scripts for a play aren't usually major releases like this. But since I don't expect to see the play any time soon, I'm glad they went for this particular cash grab.

[Domenicholas]

2 hours ago, starri said:

It's a British thing.  Cabinet secretaries are usually Secretary for _______.

I'm probably the only person, and maybe it was just the lack of a Hermione-like character, and the fact that the "love interests" were mostly offscreen, but I genuinely felt like this was a story about two teenagers who don't know they're gay yet.

It wasn't just you.  It's all over the place on Tumblr.

[tenativelyyours]

Kind of bad as I feared.  Even with help Rowling is just horrible at dialogue.  My sister just went and said production is incredible but after a while it is just as trite and contrived and bland characterization wise as the script.  She does think if Will Ferrell and Kristin Wiig take a go at it like their Lifetime movie farce it could be rather entertaining.  Now she feels a bit like someone who went to say they did and in a few months time even that could be too shameful to admit.

I don't think Jenny Row-Row is in it for cash but I do think she is desperate to be one of the top dogs in pop culture.  This and the upcoming film scream that the well might be a lot dryer for many other than the see no evil, hear no evil speak no evil fandom (good thing post replies can't draw blood for daring to say the series drops off hugely in quality after book three).   The bareness of actual imagination here suggests it is a few drops shaken from the bucket that is all she has left.  Kind of said for this reader since I've already noticed how huge a drop in the still enjoyable Comoran Strike series as well.  I think she needs to take a break and really regroup and she just seems unable to step away from the limelight. 

[starri]

I am far, far too old for Tumblr, and the places that I've seen the play/script discussed haven't really brought it up, so I honestly thought I was projecting.  I don't remember the exact context--perhaps where Scorpius resets the timeline again to rescue Albus from the world where Voldemort rose unopposed--but I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if they'd kissed.  And frankly, that would have been a lot more interesting, because it was otherwise basically licensed fan-fic.

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, and I'm sure it would look awesome on stage, but while I'm happy for more story, the exercise left me a bit cold.

[truthaboutluv]

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I didn't have an issue with Ron quitting his ministry job as an auror to work with George. Not everyone is cut out to work for the government. Even if you are doing cool stuff like tracking down artifacts, there is still a lot of paperwork and protocol which some people will chafe against. Considering that it seems like at least half of the bakeries/bars/restaurants in SF/Berkeley/Oakland seem to be opened by people who used to be lawyers, I can see Ron deciding that he didn't want to stay at a ministry job. That doesn't make him stupid or inferior to Hermione and Harry though. Working with George means that he gets to use magic for fun (and profit) while continuing Fred's legacy so I can definitely see the appeal for him there.

As the person who mentioned Ron's career, let me be clear that I didn't think he had to work for the Ministry of Magic. My point was and still is that while the joke shop worked for the twins, I never got that as Ron's life goal. Yes, Ron was a sarcastic person but I don't remember Ron being into pranks, coming up with clever jokes, gag gifts, etc. The twins were though and so them having their joke shop absolutely made sense. Again, to each his own, but I feel like this is another example of the fanfic like element the books and J.K. took on with her writing. Fans thought Ron was so funny, Fred is killed off so okay, just shove him in Fred's place at the store and it's perfect because everyone always thought Ron was like so funny...

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For what it's worth, Ginny was zero help in that department, which annoys me greatly.

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Things I didn't like were that Ginny continued to be just sort of there.

So in other words nothing changed there. Points for consistency I guess. J.K. the big feminist, where the hero's great love was a completely and utterly pointless cliche who existed for no other reason than to bare his children. Awesome. But I'm sure some shipper will tell me about the feisty fierceness of Ginny and the great deep love she and Harry shared that I just apparently blanked out for, for seven books. 

As for Harry being a crappy father - gee, I guess that was the response to the criticism of her pat and perfect fairytale ending to the series? Because I always said what Harry needed more than anything was years and years of damn therapy. Harry was always a bit emotionally removed in my opinion. Why else would someone be so turned off and annoyed by tears? For the first four books, he just seemed to exist with little emotional reaction to all the shit that was happening in his life and had happened to him.

That's why annoying as he may have been in OOTP, I was happy to finally see him have some type of emotional response to things happening around him and to him. It's another reason, of the many, many, I never bought him and Ginny either. Sure J.K. wasted pages and pages of him talking about some damn monster but I never bought any kind of interest - romantic, sexual, lust, otherwise from Harry to Ginny, ever. It all read very stilted and emotionless and let's not mention that horrible kiss scene in Book 7. It reminded me of the line in Hunger Games: Mockingjay when Gale told Katniss it was like kissing a drunk person. 

Edited August 2, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[benteen]

I'm about 50 pages into it.  It's okay and it certainly feels like Harry Potter but I'm finding it dark and depressing.  I was happy with leaving things the way they were in the prologue, I liked the prologue a lot.  It was nice seeing Harry happy after reveling in his misery.

YES on Harry seriously needing therapy.  It's obvious that's he's suffering from PTSD and he needs some kind of grief/trauma therapy.  But I can't imagine him ever agreeing to going to therapy and I've often wondered if that reflect JK Rowling's view.  Look at the way Cho Chang's emotional outbursts are handled.  She's understandably very upset over what happened with Cedric, her boyfriend, and Harry's response to her crying is pretty much "Will you stop crying?"  Like he truly doesn't understand why's she's crying.  Harry is someone who has repressed his feelings for so long that's it's bound to explode at some point.  It does in OOTP.  But he suffered a lot more losses in The Deathly Hallows and I doubt based on his personality if he ever talked with someone to address that.

50 pages in, can Rose Weasley be anymore unlikeable?

[cesstar]

15 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Re: Harry is a terrible father -- it's not about making mistakes.  Yeah, we all do that.  It's about realizing you've made a mistake, figuring out why, and learning from it.  Harry didn't do that.  Of course he had the knee-jerk "I didn't mean what I said" reaction, but he did.  He meant it when he told Albus he wished he had a different son.  

From that moment on, he should have examined himself and tried to figure out why he wanted a different son.  Then figured out how to love the son he had, not the son he wanted Albus to be.  I'm not convinced he ever did that, even after the danger had passed.

For what it's worth, Ginny was zero help in that department, which annoys me greatly.

I didn't get this impression at all. There is evidence that Harry tried to talk through his feelings with both Ginny and Dumbledore to try and understand why he doesn't connect with Albus and how to improve that. He first attempts to bond with Albus by exposing his vulnerabilities and sharing the story of his mother's blanket, and he is perceptive enough to know that Albus is only trying to bait him with his response and only finally loses his temper when Albus states that he wishes he wasn't his father. Harry then completely misinterprets the centaurs advice and takes a pretty heavy-handed approach to try and protect Albus but again, he is pretty open to acknowledging that he made a mistake on reflection. I thought his speech at the end to Albus was beautiful.

16 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Albus and Scorpius' friendship was the best. Proof that not all Slytherins grow up to be evil! How refreshing! Although I was screaming "YOU MORONS!" when they kept messing with the past.

I loved that we finally had some Slytherins to root for! It would be quite fitting if Albus's legacy (and Scorpius's) is to change the perception of how Slytherin House is viewed going forward.  

[Demented Daisy]

8 hours ago, cesstar said:

He first attempts to bond with Albus by exposing his vulnerabilities and sharing the story of his mother's blanket, and he is perceptive enough to know that Albus is only trying to bait him with his response and only finally loses his temper when Albus states that he wishes he wasn't his father.

Losing your temper with your child, especially knowing that your child is trying to bait you, is not the mark of a good parent.  

I think every parent has heard, at one time or another, "I wish you weren't my mom/dad".  But children don't know how much that will hurt the parent.  Oh, the have an inkling, otherwise they wouldn't say it, but adults know that saying that to a child is supremely painful -- especially when the child already fears that he/she is not living up to a parent's expectations.

Albus knew he didn't live up to the legend of Harry Potter.  That had been pointed out to him numerous times at Hogwarts.  To have his own father confirm his worst fears had to be heart-breaking.

But mileage varies.

[Spartan Girl]

To be fair, even HARRY couldn't live up to his own legend...before he defeated Voldemort for the second time, that is.  

The one thing that annoyed me was Amos Diggory's behavior.  Yes, I'm sure Delphi manipulated him, playing on his grief to blame Harry for everything and trying to guilt him to use the Time Turner to bring Cedric back.  And grief can be a very selfish thing.  But still, it's not like he was the only one that lost someone to Voldemort.  Tons of innocent people were murdered.  Amos didn't seem too concerned about getting those families to use the Time Turners for that same reason.

Plus, Harry didn't know the Triwizard Cup was a damn Portkey.  

[scarynikki12]

Delphi used the Confundus Charm on Amos so we don't know how much of what he said was really him and how much was her telling him what to say. I'm inclined to think that she took Amos' grief and twisted it. Nothing in Goblet of Fire suggests that either Diggory blamed Harry so I'm sticking with that. 

[cesstar]

13 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Losing your temper with your child, especially knowing that your child is trying to bait you, is not the mark of a good parent.  

I didn't say that it was. I was trying to use the example as an illustration that Harry was perceptive enough to know what Albus was trying to do at first to negate the idea that Harry didn't engage in self-reflection or examination. 

I think it also important to distinguish whether we are talking about a good parent in general or a good parent in this instance. I don't dispute that Harry made a mistake in losing his temper with Albus and saying what he said and would certainly not classify that as good parenting. However I also think that we received plenty of evidence to suggest that Harry is a good parent in general.

[Spartan Girl]

On 8/2/2016 at 9:42 PM, cesstar said:

I think it also important to distinguish whether we are talking about a good parent in general or a good parent in this instance. I don't dispute that Harry made a mistake in losing his temper with Albus and saying what he said and would certainly not classify that as good parenting. However I also think that we received plenty of evidence to suggest that Harry is a good parent in general.

This.  He and Albus seemed to have a pretty good relationship prior to the events in Cursed Child.  It was only after he went to Hogwarts and experienced everyone making assumptions on him based on his father AND his house that things started to get strained.  Not to mention the fact that Albus was already going through the usual teenage angst, not to mention the inevitable Middle Child Syndrome.

With fairness to Harry in the fight scene, he has spent his WHOLE LIFE having people resent him for his face, assuming that he was addicted to attention, etc.  Lord knows he had enough of that crap with Ron.  And now he was getting it from his own son, being mad at him for not being able to live up to a legend that Harry NEVER REALLY WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE...well, I understand why that would make him snap in the heat of the moment.

And I know that most people on this thread hate Ginny and already jumping on her for not doing anything more to mediate things between Harry and Albus, let's not forget that she grew up with six brothers -- six testosterone-riddled brothers that got on each others nerves quite often.  Maybe she learned a long time ago that it's best not to keep playing the peacemaker during all their fights.  Hermione tried that with Harry and Ron in GOF, and that didn't work.  Ginny probably thought that it was best to give them their own space to try to work things out.  Maybe that wasn't the best way to act, but I understand if that was where she was coming from.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but I would think the relationship between one's older brothers and their getting on each other's nerves and doing what siblings do, is significantly different than that of her husband and her son. Ginny was useless because Ginny has always been useless in this series.

I know that's not popular for fans of the character and the pairing to hear but I'm sorry it is the truth. When people always have to think very hard for one significant thing the character did in the entire series, then she was useless. Well sorry, other than being the vessel for Harry's children of course...

Edited August 4, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Steph619]

As a Harry Potter fan, I would like to read "Harry Potter and the Cursed Child," but a huge part of me just wants to leave everything the way it ended in the Epilogue 19 years later with Harry finally living in peace with a family of his own and without having to worry about Voldemort all the time. To be honest, I haven't even really paid attention to the info posted on Pottermore. However, the plot does seem interesting based on what the above posters have said so maybe I'll give it a shot.

[benteen]

I just finished the book and I really enjoyed it.  It's not perfect to be sure.  It does feel fan fictiony at times, the time traveling details are wonky as hell and I don't believe for a second Delphi is Voldemort's kid.  But it does feel like a Harry Potter story and there's a lot of fun to be had.

Harry and Albus not getting along was my least favorite element of the story.  Rowling does revel in Harry's misery and Harry's daddy issues seem to be another reflection of her own daddy issues with her father. 

But damn, the character of Scorpius Malfoy was great.   His friendship with Albus was another great HP friendship.  I particularly liked his storyline in the Voldemort-universe.  He and Draco had the best storylines in this book.  I did really enjoy how the interaction between Draco and the main gang evolved and matured over the years (particularly his scenes with Harry).  I think the writing there was great.

I did enjoy seeing Snape once again in the alternate timeline and his interaction with everyone.  I thought it was a great epilogue for the Snape character.

Despite some wonkiness, I do love time travel stories and Time Turners are cool.

Some good and funny dialogue.

There are some fun cameos though there are a lot of other characters I wish would have popped up too.

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Delphi used the Confundus Charm on Amos so we don't know how much of what he said was really him and how much was her telling him what to say. I'm inclined to think that she took Amos' grief and twisted it. Nothing in Goblet of Fire suggests that either Diggory blamed Harry so I'm sticking with that. 

I would agree with this.  Amos didn't blame Harry at all in the immediate aftermath of Cedric's death.  I can imagine years of anger and missing his son would probably cause him to lash out but I don't think he would harbor a grudge against Harry.

As I said earlier, I still don't buy Voldemort having a kid.  This is a guy who was obsessed with immortality and not a guy interested in an heir.  He'd likely view any child of his as one of three things.  A weapon, a horcrux or a potential threat to him.  Reading the story, I think Delphi's backstory does leave plenty of vagueness there.  Speaking of which, she says it was Rodolphus Lestrange who told her "after he returned from Hogwarts."  Excuse me but how the **** did Rodolphus Lestrange get out of Hogwarts?  He was tried and given a life sentence for his role in the torture of the Longbottoms, then escaped from jail to cause more death and destruction with Voldemort.  And somehow he got out of jail?  The only way I'm buying that is if he escaped or got a medical release.  Even the latter is unlikely. 

Anyway, I was glad to read this story and I have no doubt that after the Fantastic Beasts trilogy, Warner Brothers will try to convince JK to make a movie out of this.

[blueray]

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Warner Brothers will try to convince JK to make a movie out of this.

I had a dream that they were doing this. They had got all the original cast back (well except Alan Rickman :( ). And they had to cut his part out of it.  Then they casted the younger characters. No offense to the play people (I've never seen it and probably won't be able to unless it comes here) I still see the movie actors as the characters and therefore the children were similar to younger versions of them.

[benteen]

Yep, I still see the movie characters too and it's always going to be that way for me.

It's depressing to think that Alan Rickman will never get to speak any of Snape's lines from this play.

I imagine if Warner Brothers and JK ever go through with adapting this, they'll go to the original actors first but will re-cast if they have to.

[jcin617]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 11:39 AM, starri said:

I'm probably the only person, and maybe it was just the lack of a Hermione-like character, and the fact that the "love interests" were mostly offscreen, but I genuinely felt like this was a story about two teenagers who don't know they're gay yet.

I thought that throughout the book and still think it, even with them mentioning girls they were interested in towards the end.   I'm not sure why that is; maybe it's just because of how intense their friendship was portrayed.   For instance, when Snape told Scorpius to use his feelings for Albus against the Dementors.  It just seemed more intimate than Ron and Harry's friendship.   Then again, all they really had was each other, so perhaps that's the root of it.   Or maybe like the real world, its just complicated.

Edited August 9, 2016 by jcin617

[truthaboutluv]

No worries, in a few years, especially if progress continues with LGBTQ causes, I'm sure J.K.'ll come out saying they are a couple and she never said they weren't. You know, like she insists now that she never said Hermione wasn't black even though she approved casting white as white can be Emma Watson for the films. 

[MeloraH]

I'm somewhere in the middle with it. It was fine and I'm glad I read it but it did have a lot of problems with plot and characterization. It really obviously benefits from prior knowledge of the world and characters. I mean mention Neville or Fred and I'm probably going to start tearing up instantly...

Oh and I was spoiled for the Voldie's daughter thing and that there would be time travel. When I first heard about the daughter I thought it was going to be from his Tom Riddle period, like a post-Hogwarts  one-night-stand, like when he's grifting people out of their heirlooms...but then that would put her at around 60 and I doubt Albus would have gotten a crush on her... I agree that it isn't in character at all for post horcrux voldemort to have a child.

[Avaleigh]

I only read the summary. I was disappointed but think that I'll probably read the play in its entirety eventually. 

Regarding the big twist:

I can just barely buy the idea that Voldemort would be interested in having a child if he thought that the child would somehow help make him immortal or close to it. I can definitely see him experimenting if he thought that it would work and am fanwanking that maybe he read something that made him want to try to save himself once he realized that Harry was onto destroying the horcruxes. 

I too was a reader who thought that Tom Riddle and Voldemort came across as not being interested in sex, but am leaning towards Delphi being his because of the parseltongue thing. To me that's a sign that she has Slytherin/Gaunt blood. We know why Harry is an exception here.  

Where I have the most trouble with this plot twist is how Delphi didn't end up with either the Malfoys or the Lestranges. Bellatrix and Narcissa seemed close, I find that to be so odd. 

To me I would have been more interested in having a kid of Voldemort and Bellatrix's growing up in a good home with Andromeda and having to deal with the stigma of being the child between Voldemort and a Death Eater. Have the kid feel a bunch of mixed emotions upon going to Hogwarts and emphasize the theme that it's ultimately all about a person's choices. See the contrast between growing up as a child of Harry Potter vs. growing up a child of Voldemort. 

 

Another disappointment is how annoying Rose Weasley sounds. She sounds like she got the worst parts of Hermione and Ginny's characters. 

On 8/4/2016 at 9:40 AM, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV but I would think the relationship between one's older brothers and their getting on each other's nerves and doing what siblings do, is significantly different than that of her husband and her son. Ginny was useless because Ginny has always been useless in this series.

I know that's not popular for fans of the character and the pairing to hear but I'm sorry it is the truth. When people always have to think very hard for one significant thing the character did in the entire series, then she was useless. Well sorry, other than being the vessel for Harry's children of course...

Ginny was another disappointment. I was one of the people who rolled my eyes at the Super Ginny we got in the sixth book. It seems like she's either good at everything or useless when it suits the purpose of the story. 

The only thing I'm sort of interested in reading about is Voldemort Day. The Blood Ball? That just sounds too funny. 

[Pothunter]

I am re-reading the books and finding several things to pick at.

I think J.K.R. did a great disservice to Ron Weasley. From a fine chess player (implying strategic thinking that could have been leveraged in later books), she turned him into an unlikeable jerk, good only for comic relief. However, I do love that scene in the HBP movie, where Ron has eaten the chocolates laced with love potion, especially the part where Harry sits on his bed and Ron sort of flows onto it almost simultaneously; that was beautifully executed.

Rowling's romance writing skills are dreadful (the monster roaring??!!), but she did a good job showing the friendship between Harry and Hermione. I am glad the movies added a bit more to that relationship.

The detentions that went on till after midnight really annoyed me. Why did the school not have any protocols for punishments?

[TheGreenKnight]

HBP is the only book in the series that is close to "bad," imo. I enjoyed what she did with the memories, the HBP book, Draco, and the Unbreakable Vow, but the romance was just awful. Even the one I could get behind (Ron and Hermione) was horribly written in this book as compared to the rest of the series. What's worse is that Rowling had made me love Tonks and Ginny in Phoenix, only for this book to reveal their only role in the overall story seemed to begin and end with being romantic partners for Lupin and Harry. I'm not sure if I would've paired Harry with anyone we knew in the end. Maybe Luna, if anyone. But, then, we couldn't have had the Epilogue...which would've been for the better, imo. I really wish we'd got what Rowling said she originally wrote to be the final chapter when she started the series: a long description of what happened to all the various characters like the end of an Austen novel.

[ulkis]

On 7/31/2016 at 9:09 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was underwhelmed by Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. I didn't hate it but one of my main issues was that I felt the dialogue didn't seem to capture the original characters. I know I can probably chalk up some of the inconsistencies to the characters being middle aged adults instead of teenagers but reading this felt more like a generic time travel story than a Harry Potter story. I also didn't buy most of what Draco said. Sure, you can argue that now he's a father and husband so he's changed but Draco Malfoy confessing that he was jealous of Harry Potter having friends like Hermione and Ron?

They made Ron too much of a doof for my taste. It seemed more movie Ron than book Ron. And yeah, some of Draco's lines, like liking being bossed around by Hermione, were weird.

[Katherine]

I'm a diehard HP fan so when I heard a play was being released, I decided to do my best to see it live. I was lucky enough to get tickets for Cursed Child in September, and I managed to resist reading the script first, so I was relatively unspoiled going in. It was an amazing experience. I thought Harry, Ron and Hermione were all very well-cast, and Scorpius emerged as my favorite of the new characters. The special effects were pretty incredible. I'm so happy I got to see it in person--the experience itself definitely wasn't a disappointment.

That being said, I did have some issues with the plot and characterization. As mentioned by others, I just don't buy that Voldemort had a child. It's completely out of character and I'm surprised JKR decided to go that route. A long lost love child is just so unoriginal. Plus I felt like the character herself was just...blah. She wasn't a compelling villain, and I wasn't invested in her or her backstory. 

I also had some issues with the time travel. First, while I'm a fan of Snape, I didn't buy that he would ever warm up to Hermione or Ron in any reality. He had six years to get to know them (and Harry) and he never wavered in his contempt. In my mind, Harry dying wouldn't have softened him, and he probably wouldn't have kept fighting alongside the good guys, or if he had, he would have remained forever bitter. His sudden fondness for Hermione and for the cause just seemed like fan service. And while I can certainly understand wanting to please fans, I can't help but wish we'd at least gotten something similar for other characters (Oh how I would have loved an appearance from Sirius...).

The other problem I had was the idea that Cedric would have become a death eater. I know that we can't know for sure what he would've grown up to be, but the character represented goodness and innocence. That's why his death was so heartbreaking. This felt like it kind of tainted that.

Overall, I prefer the Deathly Hallows ending. Funnily enough, my main complaint there was always that the epilogue was too sugary sweet. I think I'm just happiest with the idea that Harry goes on to live a happy life with a family of his own, but I don't feel super connected when we actually see him as an adult living that life. Cursed Child certainly didn't ruin the series for me, and I'm sure I'll be reading and rereading the script in the future, but for me, Harry's story ends with him winning the battle against Voldemort. 

One final thought: I agree with those who mentioned that Scorpius and Albus seemed to be heading for a romantic relationship. It disappoints--but unfortunately doesn't surprise--me that the writers decided not to make it so. IMO, the romance wasn't even subtext; it was right there in the text. If it had been a male and female character, the story absolutely would have been a romantic one. I feel like this was a big missed opportunity for more LGBT representation. It disappoints me especially coming from JKR, as I do believe she understands the importance of representation, and yet she really hasn't delivered it in the Harry Potter universe.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Katherine

[slf]

For me the series ended with the Deathly Hallows. I have zero interest in the Cursed Child and nothing I've read suggests I'm missing out.

But there's something I have wanted to say for a while: I don't care for Molly Weasley. She held it down at Ft. Weasley, absolutely, and it's great we got a look at wizards and witches of all classes. But, y'know:

"Percy's letter was enclosed in a package of Easter eggs that Mrs. Weasley had sent. Both Harry's and Ron's were the size of dragon eggs and full of homemade toffee. Hermione's, however, was smaller than a chicken egg. Her face fell when she saw it." (Also Molly pretty much turned a cold shoulder to Hermione in their interactions during the book until Harry sets her straight.)

Like girl are you kidding me? You are a grown-ass woman and you're treating a child like this - a child who is already facing social rejection due to her blood status - because of something you read in a rag that, even if it were true which it wasn't, is not your business at all? She had other moments where she struck me as emotionally immature and so overbearing I couldn't stand it. (Also, because I think the Weasleys don't really work as representation for poor people for a number of reasons the whole 'Molly was overbearing because of having to raise so many children with so little and all that entailed so cut her some slack' thing doesn't work for me.)

[Katherine]

I'm not a huge fan of Mrs. Weasley, either. I especially disliked her treatment of Sirius. I know Sirius certainly wasn't innocent in their interactions, but I always felt like Mrs. Weasley was pretty unsympathetic toward a man who had just spent 12 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. At one point in OotP, she made a snide comment about how Sirius wasn't around for the first 13 years of Harry's life, as though he'd been deliberately absent. Like really...pretty sure the man would have rather been taking care of his godson than surrounded by creatures who literally sucked the happiness out of him. I think what bugged me most about it was that the narrative seemed to agree with Mrs. Weasley's view of Sirius as a reckless and selfish godfather. Again, he definitely had his flaws, but I always viewed him (at least in OotP) as representative of someone struggling with depression, and yet every character, with the exception of Harry, ranged from indifferent to impatient to outright judgmental. As with all of my posts, this comes from the extremely biased view of a diehard Sirius fan, but I really do feel like JKR could have sent a better message about mental health and/or trauma in this instance. 

Moving along from from my Sirius biases, I do feel like the narration throughout the whole series was biased in favor of Mrs. Weasley. We were supposed to view her as this wonderful, underappreciated mother. I think any time she acted immaturely, like when she sent Hermione the tiny easter egg, it was supposed to reflect how protective she was of Harry. But honestly, I feel like if JKR were trying to depict the ultimate mother figure, she could have written a better mother. Mrs. Weasley had a terrible temper, she frequently shouted at her children, she was very dismissive of Fred and George's dream to run a joke shop, she seemed to favor Ginny and overlook Ron, etc. I think we were supposed to view these flaws as realistic and relatable, but for me, they made it hard to enjoy the character (although she did have her moments).

Edited October 15, 2016 by Katherine

[slf]

5 hours ago, Katherine said:

I'm not a huge fan of Mrs. Weasley, either. I especially disliked her treatment of Sirius. I know Sirius certainly wasn't innocent in their interactions, but I always felt like Mrs. Weasley was pretty unsympathetic toward a man who had just spent 12 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. At one point in OotP, she made a snide comment about how Sirius wasn't around for the first 13 years of Harry's life, as though he'd been deliberately absent. Like really...pretty sure the man would have rather been taking care of his godson than surrounded by creatures who literally sucked the happiness out of him. I think what bugged me most about it was that the narrative seemed to agree with Mrs. Weasley's view of Sirius as a reckless and selfish godfather. Again, he definitely had his flaws, but I always viewed him (at least in OotP) as representative of someone struggling with depression, and yet every character, with the exception of Harry, ranged from indifferent to impatient to outright judgmental. As with all of my posts, this comes from the extremely biased view of a diehard Sirius fan, but I really do feel like JKR could have sent a better message about mental health and/or trauma in this instance. 

Well as someone who is completely unbiased where Sirius is concerned because I could take him or leave him I have to say I agree with you. She was completely insensitive to the circumstances of Sirius' imprisonment (suffered the brutal loss of two of his friends, was betrayed by another, framed for the deaths of his friends, imprisoned for more than a decade, and was forced to endure regular contact with the Dementors) with her comments, as you point out, but also disrespected him in his own home. A home he hated, yes absolutely, but his home all the same. As you say, the man was obviously suffering depression and likely PTSD. He shouldn't have had to deal with Molly attacking him. It was one thing for her to voice opposition to Sirius' pov that Harry should be told everything- after all, there was a very valid reason why info was being withheld (not that she was aware of it). But the way she went about it was just galling.

5 hours ago, Katherine said:

Moving along from from my Sirius biases, I do feel like the narration throughout the whole series was biased in favor of Mrs. Weasley. We were supposed to view her as this wonderful, underappreciated mother. I think any time she acted immaturely, like when she sent Hermione the tiny easter egg, it was supposed to reflect how protective she was of Harry. But honestly, I feel like if JKR were trying to depict the ultimate mother figure, she could have written a better mother. Mrs. Weasley had a terrible temper, she frequently shouted at her children, she was very dismissive of Fred and George's dream to run a joke shop, she seemed to favor Ginny and overlook Ron, etc. I think we were supposed to view these flaws as realistic and relatable, but for me, they made it hard to enjoy the character (although she did have her moments).

Agreed. As written by JKR I'd consider her more a satire of emotionally stunted women who become bored housewives overly invested in their children's lives and I'm pretty sure that's not what she was going for.

[benteen]

Quote

As you say, the man was obviously suffering depression and likely PTSD.

Rowling seems to have little sympathy on this subject.  Cho Chang is an emotional mess over Cedric's death and Harry can't figure out why she's still crying over it.  The general consensus seems to be "get over it."

[GreekGeek]

6 hours ago, benteen said:

Rowling seems to have little sympathy on this subject.  Cho Chang is an emotional mess over Cedric's death and Harry can't figure out why she's still crying over it.  The general consensus seems to be "get over it."

She's been frank about having suffered from depression herself, and that was the "inspiration" for the Dementors. I think the "Harry filter" is responsible for the apparent lack of sympathy for people who can't just get over something. Harry likes Molly, so her faults get downplayed. Cho's grief, though realistic, was also a plot device to preclude the possibility of a romance between her and Harry and to clear the way for Ginny.

[truthaboutluv]

I just think in retrospect and reading her Comoran Strike series, Rowling's main characters are very judgmental and almost smug in how much better they are than others, except I get the impression that's NOT what she's going for. You're meant to root for and like them and see them as awesome but when you really step back, most of them are kind of jerks in their own way. 

[benteen]

6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I just think in retrospect and reading her Comoran Strike series, Rowling's main characters are very judgmental and almost smug in how much better they are than others, except I get the impression that's NOT what she's going for. You're meant to root for and like them and see them as awesome but when you really step back, most of them are kind of jerks in their own way. 

Good God yes, thank you!  Every single character in the Strike series is completely unlikeable except for Robin.  I'm including Strike on the list of unlikeable characters.  Strike is a misanthrope who doesn't like anyone except for Robin.  That includes members of his own family.  He literally can't stand everyone he comes into contact with.  Rowling, through Strike seems to spend the entire series telling us how unlikeable every single character in the story is.  Except Robin of course.

The Casual Vacancy is another book filled with miserable people.  To this date, I still don't know why she wanted to write that book and what she wanted to say through it, except everyone sucks.  JK is a very charitable woman but I suspect like her characters, the vast majority of people annoy and irritate her.  Because she's always right of course...

Harry has a tendency to be annoyed with the people he comes into contact with but he's not a misanthrope like Strike.

Edited October 18, 2016 by benteen

[GaT]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

The Casual Vacancy is another book filled with miserable people.  To this date, I still don't know why she wanted to write that book and what she wanted to say through it, except everyone sucks. 

Every time someone brings this book up, I feel rage at how much I hated it. I couldn't stand a single person in that book. It was called a "dark comedy" & it really makes me wonder what Rowling's idea of "comedy" is because I didn't even smile once while reading it, never mind laugh.

[Katherine]

That's a good point about Strike's reactions to other people. Robin definitely seems to be the only person whose company he doesn't hate. I do think this is different than the Harry Potter series though. Harry definitely lacks empathy for Cho Chang (and the narrative seems to agree with him unfortunately), but he's also shown to be very capable of empathy for others like Luna and Neville. At the very least, there are quite a few characters Harry (and JKR herself) seems to like. It's really her adult books where we start to see the cynicism and downright unlikeable characters.

I often wonder what the Harry Potter books would look like if they were written today. I'm guessing they would reflect more feminist views--JKR might change the way Cho Chang was depicted, or at least give other females (maybe Ginny?) a more significant role. I like to believe she would include more ethnically diverse characters and also hopefully LGBT characters. Then again, she had that chance with Cursed Child and didn't take it. I'm not convinced that she would change anything about the way she portrayed Sirius and other characters' reactions to him, which is too bad because I feel like it does send a pretty damaging message about mental health. Maybe that also means that she wouldn't change anything about Cho's storyline--I just feel like at least with Cho, the problem wasn't just how mental illness was portrayed; it was also a problem with how female characters in general were portrayed. I suspect JKR would be more likely to correct some of the gender issues before the issues around mental health.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Katherine

[benteen]

Yeah, Harry does have empathy for people like Luna and Neville.  Dobby too and once Hermione explains why Kreacher is the way he is, he completely changes his tune on him.

[Winter Rose]

I've found JKR to be dismissive of Cho in her interviews as well. The backhanded insults thrown Cho's way, especially to build up how great Ginny was by comparison (like how she doesn't cry), were petty but I seem to vaguely recall when JKR was first sharing people's fates that she couldn't even be bothered to give a name to the muggle she said Cho married. I don't know if she's said anything different since, I'm beyond weary of her interviews nor do I consider what's not in the books canon, but I even wondered if deciding Cho ended up with a muggle was meant insultingly. I also don't think Cho was ever forgiven for sticking up for her friend, who ratted out the DA to Umbridge. That could've been a great opportunity to explore just what kind of pressure people were under to deny Voldemort's return, and what it would cost them to say otherwise (even if it was the truth), but instead it's like we were meant to be in as deep of caps-lock mode as Harry.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

The backhanded insults thrown Cho's way, especially to build up how great Ginny was by comparison (like how she doesn't cry), were petty

And I still found Cho a thousand times more interesting and compelling than the so-called fiery red headed one. 

[Spartan Girl]

Happy 20th Birthday, Harry Potter series!