Da Vinci's Demons - General Discussion

[vavera4ka]

Wait, what? Who was Vlad's brother?

the general of the turkish army.

I think he's general lol

[ganesh]

I am so so so glad they brought up Vlad. *BLIND DRACULA ON FIRE* That was such a great episode. 

[ganesh]

And they mack, medieval style.

I was incredibly confused and thought that Riario was playing some kind of con to win DaVinci over, or "back" to his side, what ever side it is. 

The pope just slays me with how derisive he is about everything. 

I need Machiavelli to pull off a huge scheme before the show ends. 

[ulkis]

I think TR did a great job with Leonardo's guilt; I wish there had been someone to remind him he only went to Lorenzo as a war engineer because that was the only way Lorenzo would sponser him - he knew presenting his other inventions wouldn't get him in the door.

I need Machiavelli to pull off a huge scheme before the show ends.

I do too but I fear there isn't enough time.

I do believe Eros Vlahos would absolutely write a fanfic of that scenario though if someone asked of him though, so at least there's that.

[ganesh]

Lorenzo is back and he is *piiiiisssssed*. I can't say I blame him though. His rant in the brothel was rather intense. *crushes walnuts*

 

Vlad?! The guy we poisoned, lit on fire, and threw out the window? That Vlad? Sure, why not?

Edited December 6, 2015 by ganesh

[AllAboutMBTV]

Honestly, this show just makes no sense whatsoever. The completist in me keeps me watching. That and my hope that Leo and Zo are someday, somewhere going to make out.

[Bruinsfan]

OK, they got me to tune back in for more Vlad Dracula. Though someone really ought to inform Paul Rhys that Țepeș is pronounced /tse-pesh/. I loved that he was planning to fight the Turks all along (but of course!) and was only undecided about whom he would allow to join his crusade.

[ganesh]

Zo beat Dracula at chess?! That was awesome. 

I actually am hoping for Dracula to team up with Lorenzo to kick the Turks out of Italy and show up the pope. 

 

So did Da Vinci and his sister invent electricity? Why not?

[ulkis]

Zo beat Dracula at chess?! That was awesome. 

I actually am hoping for Dracula to team up with Lorenzo to kick the Turks out of Italy and show up the pope. 

 

So did Da Vinci and his sister invent electricity? Why not?

 

That reminds me, so is the pope officially the pope now? His brother doesn't seem to want to re-claim his title.

[ganesh]

Basically, DaVinci and Machiavelli sneak into the Turk camp and just do Farscape: blow everything up. Fine with me. 

Machiavelli introducing Dracula prior to that is the most Machiavellian he has been. Then Dracula is like, 'oh you need to steal a tank? I got that locked down. What  time you need that for?"

[ulkis]

Vlad should have gotten his own spin-off, damn it. It's weird that I get a big goofy grin on my face when DRACULA comes on screen, but I do. "Are you apologizing for setting me on fire and pushing me off a ledge?" "I also poisoned you . . . " The best part is, Dracula's not even really mad.

 

Also thought Zo's "this is how we work, I say something and then that gives him ideas" was funny. And of course Riario is all "YOU'RE NOT BEATING ME HARD ENOUGH DAMN IT".

 

I was like, "what! a decent priest" and then it was like lol no just kidding.

 

I did get the warm and fuzzies when Leo called Zo his most trusted friend and partner, it's the second to last episode and I'm feeling sentimental, what can I say.

[ganesh]

Oh, there's only one more? I'll probably watch it then before I travel for xmas.

 

I don't think all Vlad all the time would be good. That's just too much cray to maintain all the time. I really do wish we had seen more of him though. There's droll and then there's Vlad droll. 

 

"Yo, when we going to get this tank? Hey, you, give me your tank. " **fire** "How ya like me now?"

 

The finale better be so off the chain that the chain is off itself.

Starz: The show's aren't on that long, but Xena cut a baby out of some lady and jumped off a cliff. What you know about us?

[ulkis]

I don't think all Vlad all the time would be good. That's just too much cray to maintain all the time. I really do wish we had seen more of him though. There's droll and then there's Vlad droll.

 

I know you're right, but as you say . . . we could have used just a leetle bit more Vlad. He should have popped up last season. Maybe.

 

Buuut, there is one good thing about waiting so long for Vlad to pop up again. If we had seen him more often, or if they had just created him, him not being able to be killed would have been too contrived. But it doesn't seem as bad (imo) since they already established it back in season 1. So it ends up being more like a cool detail they remembered than contrived.

[ganesh]

Oh yeah. They could have worked Vlad in as like the guy who had the best boat to get everyone to South America, for example. 

Vlad's S1 episode was The Devil. I'm not all tarot hippie garbage, but I like the history of the cards as an art form and as a way people used to communicate on the dl. I have 2 cool decks and used to do cold readings for my friends back in the day, which we all liked for a bit of fun. 

 

The Devil in the future position looms as something that can be minimized or avoided if you work hard to spot the areas in your life in which you lie to yourself in order to just get by or get along. A rigorous self-examination is needed in order to move forward with confidence in the beauty and value of life.

 

If TPTBs are following through with it, then the finale should be bad for everyone. We know there's 2 people who will survive, but I'm thinking that's it. 

[ulkis]

If TPTBs are following through with it, then the finale should be bad for everyone. We know there's 2 people who will survive, but I'm thinking that's it. 

 

Damn it, ganesh. Wasn't Spartacus' finale enough blood for you? ;)

[ganesh]

Two words: Dracula.

[ganesh]

Girolamo Riario was an actual person though. Who married the actual Caterina Sforza.

 

This was rather subdued for a series finale. They had young Machiavelli and never really did any foreshadowing with him. Having a giant battle scene really wasn't what the series was about, and I'm finding it hard to believe DaVinci and Machiavelli would be in the middle of that. 

 

And not nearly enough Vlad for the series ender. I mean, come on. There's no next episode. 

 

I was surprised Zo survived, but I was glad it was him than Lucretzia. Don't yank the arrow out of your leg, idiot. You'll bleed out. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by ganesh

[ulkis]

I actually liked that. The ending line was clunky, but whatever. The only part that I was kinda didn't like was I thought Lucrezia's death was a bit cheesy.

Lol at Vlad before the battle looking like he was daydreaming. Oh, and they should have let the brother see him pop back up.

I don't know why Tom Riley decided to say "you'll be missed" to Nico so sexily but hey can't complain about sexy line readings.

You couldn't've done that after the first naked hot bath, Riario?

Shut up Sofia! I think Lucrezia knew to be careful. And also, in what episode dod those to become besties?

Ah, Leo v Pope Riario would have been fun.

I liked Vanessa's small smile of ambition at the end.

I did feel kinda bad for sixtus, I think he was genuinely glad to see Riario back. Oh well, he did inflict naked bath time on us. And also killed tons of people.

All in all I liked it. Well, that was a bizarre, but fun, three seasons.

ETE: So I've paused in the middle of Riario's big speech to say this: From the beginning f the season, it seems like everyone, especially Laura, kept calling him by his first name--Girolamo. As the season progressed, I started wondering if they were trying to turn him into that other famous Florentine Girolamo, Savanarola.

I was thinking they were inferring that priest was him.

Ganesh, I wasn't thinking Leo should not have been there exactly, but when he shouted "for Italy!!" I was think Riario had a much better speech for battle cries.

Edited December 27, 2015 by ulkis

[ganesh]

Starz should have a show about the life of young Machiavelli.

[ulkis]

Starz should have a show about the life of young Machiavelli.

I'd take it.

I do think it was a bit subdued because they were quite sure they were 100% done when they were filming.

So, was that the book of leaves' huge contribution? Electricity? Not that that's insignificant of course.

[lidarose9]

I watched this in a binge several weeks ago and have been waiting to post about it here. Now I can't remember what my questions were. This is what happens when you get old.

 

OK, one thing I was confused by. The two popes. What happened to both of them? The one who'd been in the dungeon all along was actually a worse bad guy than the one who'd stolen the first guy's life. Eh wot? I remember the imposter Sixtus was murdered by Riario who turned out to be his son (?), who then cut off the ring finger and acted like having the ring meant he would now become pope, which was silly. So what happened to the other real pope?

 

The whole Book of Leaves thing, huh?

 

And what was the deal with Leo's mother?

 

I would be so very grateful if someone would explain it to me. 

[ulkis]

I watched this in a binge several weeks ago and have been waiting to post about it here. Now I can't remember what my questions were. This is what happens when you get old.

 

OK, one thing I was confused by. The two popes. What happened to both of them? The one who'd been in the dungeon all along was actually a worse bad guy than the one who'd stolen the first guy's life. Eh wot? I remember the imposter Sixtus was murdered by Riario who turned out to be his son (?), who then cut off the ring finger and acted like having the ring meant he would now become pope, which was silly. So what happened to the other real pope?

 

The whole Book of Leaves thing, huh?

 

And what was the deal with Leo's mother?

 

I would be so very grateful if someone would explain it to me. 

 

I don't think anything happened to the other real pope. I don't recall him dying in the last episode at least and I just watched it on Saturday. I'm guessing if there had been another season maybe he would have been out there as a baddie.

 

With Leo's mother I'm guessing she is also still out there? It seems like she left Leo for Al-Rahim but then realized Al-Rahim was not so great so she helped out Leo again. Or maybe it was simply her loyalty was stronger to Leo.

[AllAboutMBTV]

 

I don't know why Tom Riley decided to say "you'll be missed" to Nico so sexily but hey can't complain about sexy line readings.

Make out! Make out! You know you want to! Gah...

[vavera4ka]

With Leo's mother I'm guessing she is also still out there? It seems like she left Leo for Al-Rahim but then realized Al-Rahim was not so great so she helped out Leo again. Or maybe it was simply her loyalty was stronger to Leo.

wasn't her throat cut during the astral projection session with.... Leo's sister? or was it Lucrecia?

[ganesh]

Leo's mother got her throat slit.

[ulkis]

ah, thanks, I missed that.

[ganesh]

It was *right* at the end of the episode, so it might not have been clear. 

[ulkis]

Did have some questions though for others who have watched the whole thing:

First, why on earth was Riario so aghast at finding out he was a killer?

I came into this season for Riario, but ended up in love with Vlad :)

Way late, but: I think Riario was aghast because even though he killed before, he was in control of himself and he was a fanatic who believed his killing weren't without cause. In this season he was under someone else's control.

I think the show wanted us to wonder whether killing was part of his brainwashing or not, but imo I don't think so. I think he killed Sixtus because Sixtus was cruel to him.

Re: Vlad, I think most watched for some other character, but stayed for Vlad. :)

[DittyDotDot]

So, I just wanted to pop in here to say--yeah, yeah, yeah....exceedingly late to this party and it looks like everyone has already went home--I really enjoyed the this last season of the show. I put off watching it and now I'm kinda sorry I did. I feel like the show finally found that balance between the genres this season and now it's gone.

Never fails I get into something that's either dying or dead. 

[Bruinsfan]

I didn't so much stay for him, but I tuned back in when I heard he was returning. Even the straightwashing couldn't keep me away from my favorite Dracula ever.

[ulkis]

I wish he could have had a spin-off. Vlad's revenge against his brother kinda fizzled out, so I wish they could have made up for that a little bit. Still, the episodes they had him on were more than I expected.

Edited January 24, 2017 by ulkis

[Ravenya003]

Finally catching up on the final season! This show is absolutely bonkers, and the fact it's taken me this long to sit down and watch is indicative of my viewing priorities, but there was no way I was going to miss it.

The thing about this show is that it feels like five shows all crammed into one. Every single subplot is something tonally different from all the others, and every actor is playing their role like there's eight different directors per episode. 

That was a shitty end for Clarice, especially when she was finally starting to make some decisive moves of her own. Blergh. This show has never been particularly kind to its female characters, but if they kill off Vanessa, I'll be pissed.

Laura Cereta is fun so far; I looked her up on Wikipedia, and she was quite the woman! A feminist before that word even existed. 

So Leo has been played by the Sons of Mithras, just as Riario is being played by the Labyrinth dudes. That's gotta suck. 

Alfonso's death was far too quick and easy. That raping PoS deserved something slower and more painful. 

Nicco and Vanessa are cute together; I'm hoping they make it out alive. 

Leo treats his friends like crap, but it was quite touching/sad that he'd still imagine Zoro coming to his rescue. 

[Ravenya003]

Three more down: 

The alternative reality episode was a bit strange and disappointing; they're largely meant to shine some insight on what makes a particular character tick, yet we didn't really learn much about Leo that we didn't already know. And what we did learn didn't feel particularly true to him: he wants to marry Lucrezia and have an obnoxious kid? Okay.

Nice to have the Leo/Zoro/Nicco/Vanessa team back together again. The Vanessa/Leo scene in particular was really lovely. 

I should have seen Riario as the killer coming; it was all spelt out with the piety/artistry MO. The switching personality was a neat idea through, and how it eventually was purged by using Laura as a surrogate mother. Blake Ritson takes this show so much more seriously than anyone else, but it pays off when he delivers stuff like "the Sinner" side of him. That was genuinely scary.

Um... did we know before these episodes that Leo had a little sister? But at the same time it came the heck out of nowhere, it didn't completely take me by surprise. And that little actress keeps popping up in all my shows: Game of Thrones, Poldark...

Lucrezia is a much better character when they're not trying to sell her amazing love story with Leo. Her material in helping/saving the girls was good stuff.

On the other hand Vanessa - look, I know Pope Sixtus is a complete dirtbag, but there's no way you're gonna be able to protect a bankrupt city from an invading army without Rome's help. 

I concur that Nicco needs to pull off some magnificent long-con before the final episode. Something to do with Madame Singh, perhaps? 

[Ravenya003]

On 09/11/2015 at 6:21 AM, ABay said:

So is this woman in love with Riario supposed to be Caterina Sforza with a different name (which I have tried several times to catch and still haven't, after 5 or so episodes)?

You wrote this over a year ago, but the answer you were looking for is: no. Her name is Laura Cereta - she was a real historical person, and one of the early feminists, writing (among other things) "Curse Against the Ornamentation of Women" and "Defence of the Liberal Instruction of Women".

Three more episodes down, three more to go. I thought I was only a casual viewer, but my heart was pounding in those final few seconds, and I started getting a little sentimental about the ending. The cast is falling like flies, though I suppose that's only expected this close to the finish line.

The team splitting up was inevitable, but I love all the dynamics between them. It's a shame they didn't introduce Sophia much earlier, as she fits right in and her rapport with Leo/Zoro was delightful. Zoro/Nicco's trip to Vlad's castle was hilarious ("please don't kill us, THAT'S YOUR FUCKING PLAN??") as was Sophia/Zoro selling their plan to Leo ("don't worry, I'll protect him"). Zoro seems to have a crush, and it's entirely fitting he'd fall for the female version of Leo. 

VLAD! I was so happy to see him again; his appearance in season one really set the tone for the entire show (batshit insanity) and was probably the point in which it all started to come together. So many great lines from him. 

Oh Riario, you eternal pain in the ass. When he's not killing innocent people, he's feeling guilty about it, and after he's finished feeling guilty, he goes and kills more innocent people. I'm sure the writers have a trick up their sleeves for the final episodes, but if he's put out of his misery, I won't be too sad about it.

Not too happy about Vanessa/Lorenzo. Why go there? 

One more episode to go, and it feels like they have a lot to cover. I'd like to see Nicco pull off some amazing Machiavellian ploy, and for Lucrezia to redeem herself somehow (even if it's just in her own eyes). They have to get rid of the Sons of Mithras AND the Labyrinth and install a new Pope. Riario is probably going to make one final decision to act in a way that'll definitively put him on the side of the angels or the devil. I'd like to see Lorenzo reclaim himself and do something for Italy rather than just rant and rave. 

Okay, on to the last episode. 

[Ravenya003]

Well, that's that.

All things considered, it was a pretty satisfying season finale. The villains are defeated, the heroes are triumphant, but there was enough sadness to make it a bittersweet ending. I wasn't that upset by Lucrezia's death - she caused a lot of harm during her lifetime, but this allowed her to atone and go out on her own terms. I wasn't even remotely invested in Leo/Lucrezia as a couple, and she got a much better death than poor Clarice.

So a bit of sadness for Leo - but he's still got his genius sister and his bestie, as well as a studio to run back in Florence. He'll be fine.

Not so much for Riario, who was a tool to the very end. I wasn't sure whether the show was going to give him a redemption arc, but I think this was pretty fitting. Let's be honest, the guy had no self-possession whatsoever; he just adhered to whatever authority figure was in the vicinity, whether it be the pope, da Vinci, or the Architect. Whatever, dude. 

And then there was Nicco. Sadly the writers never gave him any Machiavellian scheming on any particularly great level, but I can also see him growing into the author of "The Prince" later in life. Between his dealings with Leo, Zo, Riario and Vlad, and losing the girl he loves to her own ambition, I can definitely see him as the figure as portrayed on "The Borgias" - giving tips to Cesare Borgia.

I wish they'd done a little more with Lorenzo and Vanessa. The former in particular was pretty shortchanged this season, and Vanessa's rise to power could have been given a little more attention, even as it had absolutely nothing to do with the A-plot.

Laura Cereta made for a good guest star (always nice to see older women in leadership roles) and Vlad stole every scene he was in. Definitely the high point of these last three episodes. 

But it crossed my mind: what on earth happened to Alfonso's wife? The blonde woman who was in love with Lorenzo? Did she survive the assault on Naples? 

It was a crazy little show, and it never got much of a following, but three seasons isn't anything to be ashamed of. The main plot was wrapped up while still leaving room for further adventures (even if we never get to see them) and it was fun while it lasted. 

[ulkis]

On 2/15/2017 at 4:33 AM, Ravenya003 said:

Well, that's that.

All things considered, it was a pretty satisfying season finale. The villains are defeated, the heroes are triumphant, but there was enough sadness to make it a bittersweet ending. I wasn't that upset by Lucrezia's death - she caused a lot of harm during her lifetime, but this allowed her to atone and go out on her own terms. I wasn't even remotely invested in Leo/Lucrezia as a couple, and she got a much better death than poor Clarice.

So a bit of sadness for Leo - but he's still got his genius sister and his bestie, as well as a studio to run back in Florence. He'll be fine.

Not so much for Riario, who was a tool to the very end. I wasn't sure whether the show was going to give him a redemption arc, but I think this was pretty fitting. Let's be honest, the guy had no self-possession whatsoever; he just adhered to whatever authority figure was in the vicinity, whether it be the pope, da Vinci, or the Architect. Whatever, dude. 

And then there was Nicco. Sadly the writers never gave him any Machiavellian scheming on any particularly great level, but I can also see him growing into the author of "The Prince" later in life. Between his dealings with Leo, Zo, Riario and Vlad, and losing the girl he loves to her own ambition, I can definitely see him as the figure as portrayed on "The Borgias" - giving tips to Cesare Borgia.

I wish they'd done a little more with Lorenzo and Vanessa. The former in particular was pretty shortchanged this season, and Vanessa's rise to power could have been given a little more attention, even as it had absolutely nothing to do with the A-plot.

Laura Cereta made for a good guest star (always nice to see older women in leadership roles) and Vlad stole every scene he was in. Definitely the high point of these last three episodes. 

But it crossed my mind: what on earth happened to Alfonso's wife? The blonde woman who was in love with Lorenzo? Did she survive the assault on Naples? 

It was a crazy little show, and it never got much of a following, but three seasons isn't anything to be ashamed of. The main plot was wrapped up while still leaving room for further adventures (even if we never get to see them) and it was fun while it lasted. 

I have no clue about Alfonso's wife.

The finale was definitely no where near as wacky as I thought it was gonna be.