Da Vinci's Demons - General Discussion

[ABay]

I watched the first episode of season 1 last night and noticed three things:

Someone (Becchi?) mentions Icarus

Lorenzo makes a reference to "slitting our own throats"

I really, really miss Giuliano and Becchi. Why did they have to die so soon and yet Lucretia lives?

[Sonja]

Funny, I bought the BluRay when I was in London last week and finally got started by watching ep 1 with audio commentary last night. Becchi mentions Icarus when he tells Leonardo to stick with painting instead of fancying himself a war engineer and David S. Goyer says in the commentary that Icarus and Daedalus are going to be featured in seasons 2 and 3 as well. The scene in Lorenzo's office is also interesting in that regard. If you look to the wall way back behind Lorenzo when he's standing (left side of the screen), you can see the first sign of the Labyrinth. Also when Leonardo shows his sketches to Lucretia, you can see how they are going to escape from the vault of heaven (he actually explains the parachutes to her). Or to quote Goyer in the commentary: foreshadowing, foreshadowing, foreshadowing,....

 

My mind is a bottomless pit of useless information, so I had quite a few 'wait a minute' moments during season 2 anyway, but it's fun to re-discover season 1 after having seen the second one.

[ABay]

So...since episode 1 season 1 I've been telling friends that this show is crazy but I'm enjoying it. And everyone is so striking, very memorable: Zo, Nico, DaVinci senior, Lorenzo, Riario, both Popes, etc. Everybody except the guy who plays the lead. End of season 2, I would still not be able to pick Tom Riley out of a line-up.

 

I suggested DaVinci's Demons to a friend who enjoyed Elliot Cowan in the brilliant Lost in Austen. He was Darcy, and the actor who plays Crane in Sleepy Hollow was Bingham, but what I remember most is that LiA had the best Wickham ever. Just a fun reinterpretation of the character and the actor had lots of chemistry with Jemima Rooper. I was just checking IMDB to see who that actor was...it was Tom Riley. So even when I love a character he's played, his face is completely forgettable to me. Ha! Sorry, Mr. Riley.

[OakGoblinFly]

Tom Riley has a case of "hey, it's that guy" ------ I didn't realize that I saw so much of his work until I checked out IMDB.

[ABay]

He's supposed to be in an episode of Doctor Who this year...I hope it's announced before the episode because otherwise I won't know it's him.

[ganesh]

It would be awesome if he guest stars as DaVinci on DW.

[OakGoblinFly]

You'll get half your wish @ganesh Tom Riley did film a guest spot on Doctor Who; as of now it is scheduled to be the third episode and he may or may not be playing a version of Robin Hood.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2014 by OakGoblinFly

[attica]

He...does not look good as a blond. Imho.

[brisbydog]

Wrong Riario. "Our" Riario dies about a decade after the events of Season 2, hacked to death by assasins and then tossed naked off a balcony. However he is married to the kick ass Caterina Sforza from the Borgias so I like to think of them having hot naked sex before his inevitable bloody death (and would he really have wanted to go any other way?)

[ABay]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

@Lisin, I'm confused by this post that appeared today at the head of the topic. Were we veering off course? There are only a handful of posts in this topic and I don't think any of them belonged elsewhere? The post read like a warning or chastisement but I'm not sure what warranted either so I'm asking for clarification.

[Lisin]

@ABay you weren't veering off course, we are site wide doing some housekeeping, making sure all the forums with "All Episode Talk" topics had the topic language in them. No need to change what you're doing, just some maintenance. 

[ABay]

Got it. Thanks, @Lisin. I noticed the sudden appearance of header posts in several already-established topics today and wondered what was up.

[ulkis]

So...since episode 1 season 1 I've been telling friends that this show is crazy but I'm enjoying it. And everyone is so striking, very memorable: Zo, Nico, DaVinci senior, Lorenzo, Riario, both Popes, etc. Everybody except the guy who plays the lead. End of season 2, I would still not be able to pick Tom Riley out of a line-up.

 

I suggested DaVinci's Demons to a friend who enjoyed Elliot Cowan in the brilliant Lost in Austen. He was Darcy, and the actor who plays Crane in Sleepy Hollow was Bingham, but what I remember most is that LiA had the best Wickham ever. Just a fun reinterpretation of the character and the actor had lots of chemistry with Jemima Rooper. I was just checking IMDB to see who that actor was...it was Tom Riley. So even when I love a character he's played, his face is completely forgettable to me. Ha! Sorry, Mr. Riley.

 

I felt that way until maybe later on season 1. You should go read Tom riley's twitter, if you haven't already. I just when to read it (I don't really like to follow a lot of people so I just go visit the page every so often) and I'm cracking up, as usual. 

 

And from his tweets the new writers seem very enthusiastic about the next season, so that's good.

[Ravenya003]

I've been casually making my way through this show, and I never really know what to make of it. There are three plot-threads going on at any given time and none of them feel as though they belong on the same show: you've got the Medici political drama in Florence, the pseudo-supernatural cult treasure hunt across the globe, and the frankly ludicrous "biographical" element in which Da Vinci comes up with a before-its-time invention to solve a problem every week (this episode featured the submarine).

 

I quite like the first two plots, but the last feels more like an inspirational children's show (albeit with sex and boobs). I keep expecting Doctor Who or Mrs Frizzle or Wishbone the dog to show up, and I find Leo's friends (old guy, hot guy, cute girl and Neville Longbottom) far more likeable and interesting than him - though between Tony Stark and Sherlock Holmes I think I'm just feeling oversaturated with grown men who are just so intelligent that they have no time for things like basic common courtesy.

 

Luckily everything else is interesting enough to keep me going, even through the gratuitous rape scene that was more pointless than anything seen on Game of Thrones. Though I quite admire the fact that the writers have gone ahead with removing Leo from Florence and putting him in a race to the New World; it demonstrates a lot of faith in the audience's interest/sympathy in Lorenzo and Clarice to keep the political plot-thread relevant.   

 

I'm always up for a little slave mutiny, though I think a near-identical plot was handled better on Black Sails (of all shows) in which the slaves actually realize their ship is being overtaken and deliberately signal their willingness to help overpower the original crew (taking the chance that it'll led to their liberation).

[Ravenya003]

I'm pretty sure this episode was 90% filler. Da Vinci tries to convince the slaves that he knows what he's doing, only for them to kill themselves anyway. Lorenzo comes across a couple of religious opportunists, is attacked, and quickly dispatches them. Riario and Niko exchange barbs with each other before the ship heads into a storm.

 

Really, the only important/interesting bit was Lucrezia, whose appeal as a character seems directly proportional to her proximity to Da Vinci. So glad they've decided to give her a storyline of her own, and I liked the way her flashbacks were staged, shifting between her memories and her discussion with her father.

 

But honestly, the pacing in this episode was awful. The stuff with Lucrezia in the palace only seemed to take place over a couple of hours, yet it was interspersed with days (if not longer) passing in all the other subplots. 

Edited September 7, 2014 by Ravenya003

[Ravenya003]

As if to make up for the filler of last week, this one was full-on progression in nearly every subplot. I'm quite amazed that they've gone ahead and placed their lead character on an entirely new continent while the likes of Lorenzo, Clarice, da Vinci Senior and so many others remain in Italy, but you can't say it's not unique.

 

And of course the Incan settlement would be full of nubile young beauties with shaved legs wearing gold-plated coconut bras, though I wonder if every newcomer to their kingdom has to go through the same completely arbitrary test to see if they know how to sow corn. Did the same thing happen to Riario and Niko? Ludicrous tests of character seem to be the theme of the episode considering Lorenzo apparently has to do something similar to impress the psycho king of Naples. There was so much gore involved I spent most of the episode with my eyes screwed up.

 

Clarice - hey, get it girl. It's not like your husband is particularly faithful, but I'm not sure you should be 100% trusting this new guy either. She got lucky that he threw in his lot with her, but she's going to have to start making some moves of her own if she wants to keep Florence under her control.

[Ravenya003]

This show keeps getting weirder. I guess the theme for this episode was "arbitrary tests of character that men have to suffer through because they're surrounded by psychos." There was plenty of unintentional laughter while watching Riario go bonkers in a corn field; somewhat less narmful was Lorenzo's discussion about who he hates with his dead brother. (All weirdness aside, that sequence with the rope and the horse was pretty spectacularly shot).

 

Nice to see Guliano again (no idea how to spell that), and his request that Vanessa be looked after was surprisingly touching, though I wonder whether his ability to appear to Lorenzo was somehow brought about by Leo mucking around in the underworld. I'm also not sure what to make of Leo glimpsing the Abyssinian as he left, despite the Abyssinian talking to Lucrezia in "real time" just a few minutes before. All the time travel stuff was fun though, despite the fact that their attempt to create suspense by older!Leo warning young!Leo that he might well die in Macchu Picchu fell utterly flat. Give it up show, we know he's not going anywhere.

 

The appearance of the Mona Lisa makes me suspect that the show will eventually try to unravel the mystery of her identity. As long as it's not Lucrezia (who I like, but I hate all this OTP with Leo nonsense) then I'll await amazement.

 

All in all, I think I'd be able to embrace the show more were it not for two glaring problems; the first that every woman so far has been made to slowly strip for the camera whilst all the men get to keep their pants on - even during sex scenes; and the second that despite the diversity on display, all the POC seem to exist either to serve white folk, obsess over white folk, or die nobly for white folk. Zita encouraging Riario to stab her to death because she knows the Book of Leaves is totally important to him was probably the most gratuitous thing in an episode filled with heads popping off and blood spurting everywhere (and of course, she sends her forgiveness to him via Da Vinci on her way to the afterlife because even when dead it's STILL all about him). So I'm not really feeling Riario's agonised mainpain when he should have just said "fuck this" and galloped off into the sunset with the only person in the world who (for some reason) gives a damn about him.

[ABay]

What I've learned about Naples from The Borgias and this show: Don't go there.

[Ravenya003]

I think we're supposed to be cheering Clarice on in her newfound resolve and independence, but I'm not entirely sure "whatever I damn well please" is the right attitude to have while desperately trying to keep together an excommunicated city. Another sex scene, another totally naked woman and totally clothed man.

 

The obstacles on the way to the vault were very Indiana Jones, but with added fun considering Zo was at hand to point out just how stupid and pointless the whole thing really was. I mean honestly, did they really have to sacrifice that poor llama? Interesting scene when Niko manages to talk about Riario, with Leo looking on in shock. It's always a nice moment when the Load of any group manages to achieve something that's beyond the ken of the mastermind.

 

Talk about an anti-climax though - all that work to get into the vault and we're left with a statue and a pleasant view.

 

Some fantastic editing/musical cues in this episode, first with Leo opening the vault intercut with what's-his-name in the Vatican vaults, and then with Leo's arrest intercut with Lucrezia's. Nicely done, even though I'm still not that interested in Lucrezia. Laura Haddock is a beautiful woman, and I hate that they slaver so much make-up on her. Less is more, people! 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Ravenya003

[Ravenya003]

Is the sight of Riario murdering all these women meant to make me feel sorry for him? Because no.

 

And did Lucrezia's entire plan just fail because she forgot to mention that Pope Sixtus is an imposter?? There's got to be more to it than that; no writer makes their character THAT stupid.

 

Oh, and when did the Inca civilisation suddenly become reliant on the Books of Leaves for its salvation? That hasn't come up before, has it? Yet here it seemed to be the most important thing on their agenda.

 

This was an okay episode, though I'm glad Leo is headed back to Florence with his mother's mechanical head in-tow. Presumably he's going to find a way to fix it and find the new hiding place for the Book, though I do wonder how she managed to set up that whole contraption in the first place.

 

Looking forward to Prince Douche (Alfonso) dying. Please don't tell me he's protected by historical precedence.

[Ravenya003]

Oh Carlo, I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you! Still, Leo saved his life this episode and he seemed to be genuinely fond of Clarice (unless that scene in which he touches her chin was just a ruse - but for whose benefit?) so perhaps he can be swayed back to the other side.

 

I'm assuming these Enemies of Men are going to be the main antagonists of next season? And judging by their name, I'd assume that it's only a woman that can defeat them, a la Eowyn and the Witch King, but I doubt that's occurred to any of the actual writers.

 

Get over yourself, Riario. I'm glad the real Pope didn't let him off the hook for just standing there as an eleven year old was murdered and forcing Lucrezia to (in his words) whore herself out to keep her father alive.

 

Lara Pulver was great as Clarice; just barely keeping it together and then not hesitating when it came to executing one-eye. Where are her daughters, though?

 

Two psychopaths down in this episode, one more to go (Alfonso). Hopefully his wife will take him down, she's been doing most of the grunt-work in Naples.

[Ravenya003]

Safe to say, I didn't see the mum reveal coming. Probably because Leo doesn't look even remotely mixed-race.

 

On the other hand, Nicco revealing himself as Machiavelli fell down flat since I had no idea it was meant to be a secret. On various boards (including this one) it seemed to be open knowledge, and I assumed I'd simply missed the scene where it was confirmed on the actual show.

 

Vanessa becoming the ruler of Florence seems utterly absurd, but having her and Nicco at the helm might well prove to be fun. At least the actress will get more to do than just be pregnant. Little disappointed that Clarice just up and left, but I suppose she's had a really shitty time of it.

 

Lucrezia gets a lot of hate, but I thought she was fantastic in the scene when she finally gets to face-down all these men who have dictated her life (sans Riario, sadly), spell out how they've all been played by the fake Pope, and announce she was doing it all for her sister.

 

From certain angles Ippolita looked exactly like Natalie Dormer. Then the light shifted and I was left wondering what I was thinking.

 

And coincidentally or not, it ends exactly as the first season did: with a fuse about to explode. I enjoy this show well enough, but I hope next season is the last. The longer the Book of Leaves remains out of reach, the less I care about it, and I feel the story and characters would be better served if they get closure and wrap-up sooner rather than later.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Ravenya003

[ganesh]

No, no one was surprised by the Machiavelli reveal. The point was he was all announcing himself and she was like, "ok so?" And we know what he becomes. We already saw him being Machiavellian faking the signature. So it's more obvious foreshadowing that he's going to be doing his thing now. So far, he's been more a sidekick.

[Writing Wrongs]

Is this getting a third season?

[coppersin]

Yes, the new season starts in 2015. Here's an article and video with mild spoilers re: season 3.

[Skyfall]

Does anyone feel like that since Lutlander turned into a huge hit that Starz is pushing this to the side?

[ganesh]

I'm unaware that the start date changed due to Outlander. Why would starz want to push one at the expense of the other? That's a bad business model. I would think they'd be psyched that they have Davinci, Black Sails, and Outlander. There's still a lot of love for Spartacus too. The shows are pretty different and it they can say, hey, we do some weird shit over here, but these shows have something for everyone. 

[coppersin]

Our first teasers for Season 3.

 

....Y'know, the Season 2 trailer had shirtless Riario. I really feel they should maintain that standard.

[ganesh]

Given Riario was stripped and bound to an iron cross to get into his new whack ass cult, I expect more shirtlessness.

[ulkis]

I'm unaware that the start date changed due to Outlander. Why would starz want to push one at the expense of the other? That's a bad business model. I would think they'd be psyched that they have Davinci, Black Sails, and Outlander. There's still a lot of love for Spartacus too. The shows are pretty different and it they can say, hey, we do some weird shit over here, but these shows have something for everyone. 

 

Is that why it changed? In any case, does anyone know when it does start up again? I tried looking it up and all I see is "2015".

[DittyDotDot]

I've been casually making my way through this show, and I never really know what to make of it. There are three plot-threads going on at any given time and none of them feel as though they belong on the same show: you've got the Medici political drama in Florence, the pseudo-supernatural cult treasure hunt across the globe, and the frankly ludicrous "biographical" element in which Da Vinci comes up with a before-its-time invention to solve a problem every week (this episode featured the submarine).

 

I'm right where you were, but just a few months behind (like usual). I keep waiting for the show to figure out what show it actually is and commit to something. It's like they want to be everything--lush political/period drama with a little sci-fi, steam punk and the supernatural mixed in--but they never really fully achieve any of those elements. So, I'm kinda left feeling like the show wants to say they're unique, but going about things in the most generic ways.

[DittyDotDot]

Well isn't it dandy they had Leo point out it was the FIRST self propelled cart? Whatever!

 

Nico was absolutely adorable with his "I've missed this part," though. Absolutely adorable!

Edited June 17, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[ulkis]

Tom Riley says the show is returning in the fall but that's all he knows right now.

Starz has started showing the short teaser trailer for Da Vinci's Demons season 3 again - before episodes of Power, it seems. One thing of note now, is the notice that season 3 will return in the fall. No more news than that, I'm afraid.

tomriley.com

 

[ulkis]

I'm right where you were, but just a few months behind (like usual). I keep waiting for the show to figure out what show it actually is and commit to something. It's like they want to be everything--lush political/period drama with a little sci-fi, steam punk and the supernatural mixed in--but they never really fully achieve any of those elements. So, I'm kinda left feeling like the show wants to say they're unique, but going about things in the most generic ways.

 

I agree. Although I'm guilty of being as confused as well because I really liked "the Devil' episode but my favorites were probably the first three episodes of season 2, and that was all mostly political drama. But I think I liked those episodes because Leonardo/Florence is an OTP of mine in a sense, heh.

[giovannif7]

Cancelled according to TVLine. Season 3, which will be the final season, will debut Sat. Oct. 24.

[coppersin]

I won't miss the show itself - I usually marathon-watched episodes because I couldn't be bothered to tune in every week, especially once I accepted that the show, while fun, would never fulfill the potential that it had. However, I will miss the characters. Tom Riley did a great job as the hyper-minded DaVinci, and Riario was by far my favorite. Even during dull episodes, I didn't fast-forward through any scene with him in it.

 

Considering how quiet Starz was about a release date, I think a lot of viewers knew this was coming. Hopefully the writers and producers knew soon enough to properly wrap things up.

[ganesh]

If this is the last season, I really hope they up the crazy.

[ABay]

I hope they up the male nudity, at least back to season 1 level.

And may Lara Pulver never return.

[ganesh]

I'm for nudity all over the place. And I want crazy. I mean, I'm talking about *cray*. 

[pachyderm]

i have been binge watching the first two season for the last two days. i didn't care too much at first but then i kept watching... i really like this show. the cliff hanger endings seem to get bigger and bigger each episode.

 

that said i think @ganesh is correct: let the first ship through and then block the harbor... or can his cannon reach the blockade further out? 

[ulkis]

Here is the trailer for season 3:

 

 

 

I won't miss the show itself - I usually marathon-watched episodes because I couldn't be bothered to tune in every week, especially once I accepted that the show, while fun, would never fulfill the potential that it had. However, I will miss the characters. Tom Riley did a great job as the hyper-minded DaVinci, and Riario was by far my favorite. Even during dull episodes, I didn't fast-forward through any scene with him in it.

 

Considering how quiet Starz was about a release date, I think a lot of viewers knew this was coming. Hopefully the writers and producers knew soon enough to properly wrap things up.

 

Yeah, it's definitely not a surprise. And Starz pretty much ruined any chance they might have gotten at getting higher ratings by pushing off season 3. Although to be fair I don't think there was much chance.

 

And yes, I will always be grateful to the show for the characters and introducing me to the actors. Tom Riley and Eros Vlahos have two of the most delightful twitter pages ever.

Edited August 3, 2015 by ulkis

[Ravenya003]

I've been the most casual of casual viewers for this show, and three seasons is a respectable number, so I'm not too gutted that this season is the last. 

 

The ladies don't seem to be particular popular in this fandom, but I'm intrigued by the scene between Lucrezia/Clarice in the trailer: "I've made some poor choices"/'not when it really mattered", and I enjoyed the moment back in season one when Lucrezia saved Clarice's children, so hopefully there's some good material for them this time around.

 

Also, I really hope Alfonzo of Naples dies a horrible and prolonged death. Hated that guy.  

[ulkis]

I've been the most casual of casual viewers for this show, and three seasons is a respectable number, so I'm not too gutted that this season is the last. 

 

No, I wasn't either, but I saw the trailer for the first time yesterday and I did feel a couple of pangs. I really like the actors and I'm gonna miss their interviews and stuff. 

 

Also, the trailer that I saw said all the episodes will be available on Starz on-demand on Oct. 24th.

 

The ladies don't seem to be particular popular in this fandom, but I'm intrigued by the scene between Lucrezia/Clarice in the trailer: "I've made some poor choices"/'not when it really mattered", and I enjoyed the moment back in season one when Lucrezia saved Clarice's children, so hopefully there's some good material for them this time around.

 

Agreed. I actually really like Clarice. Lucrezia I'm more neutral on, but I don't hate her at all. 

 

Also, I really hope Alfonzo of Naples dies a horrible and prolonged death. Hated that guy.

 

He should somehow accidentally shoot himself. He seems the type.

[ganesh]

Is no one watching the show tonight?

[ulkis]

Is no one watching the show tonight?

 

I watched some of it, but not all of it yet. I'll go make an episode thread.

[ulkis]

I'm pretty sure that was the title of the episode . . . 

[catrox14]

Just FYI, all the episodes for s3 were released for on demand viewing. 

[Fable]

Is this going to be moved to the front page?

[ganesh]

Do you need to have Starz for all of the episodes?

[catrox14]

Do you need to have Starz for all of the episodes?

 

I have Starz so I'm not sure if it's required. Sadly, it probably is