tv echo June 18, 2020 Share June 18, 2020 (edited) Going Broke in Hollywood: TV’s Overworked Assistants Reel From Pandemic Pay Cuts BY MAUREEN RYAN JUNE 17, 2020https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/06/going-broke-in-hollywood-tvs-overworked-assistants-reel-from-pandemic-pay-cuts Quote The recent cuts to assistants’ pay particularly rankled employees who used to work with Andrew Kreisberg, a former executive producer on multiple CW superhero shows. In November 2017, I reported on his long history of alleged misconduct and inappropriate behavior. Kreisberg has denied all allegations of misconduct. Weeks after the piece appeared, and in the wake of an investigation at WBTV, Kreisberg was fired. I have now learned from multiple sources that Kreisberg, who was a cocreator on a number of superhero shows in the CW Arrowverse, was paid nearly $10 million by Warner Bros. after he was let go. The studio and Kreisberg’s lawyer declined to comment on the matter. “Some people might say that it’s apples and oranges—cutting the pay of assistants versus what the studio paid Kreisberg not all that long ago,” said a writer-producer who worked in the Arrowverse. “But it just reinforces the fact that those at the top of the food chain are protected, while the people who are most vulnerable have no options and have to take it on the chin.” “It’s upsetting to see that WB execs would rather pay a toxic person and keep him happy than use that money towards their assistants, who have done nothing wrong,” said an Arrowverse assistant. Edited June 18, 2020 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo June 18, 2020 Share June 18, 2020 (edited) Arrow: Every Change To Tommy Merlyn's Life After Crisis on Infinite Earths BY MATT MORRISON JUNE 17, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-tommy-merlyn-differences-after-crisis-infinite-earths/ Quote The series finale of Arrow revealed that Oliver Queen used the phenomenal cosmic power of The Spectre to rewrite reality as the multiverse was reformed following the Crisis on Infinite Earths. This resulted in many characters who died over the course of Arrow being resurrected and being revealed to be alive at Oliver Queen's funeral, including Tommy Merlyn. Little was said about how events played out in the new timeline, but Tommy did reveal one interesting fact while talking with Black Siren, the Laurel Lance of Earth-2; Tommy and the Laurel Lance of Earth-1 had gotten married at some point before her death. * * *Logically, Tommy not dying at the end of Arrow season 1 would have had a domino effect that would have changed multiple events throughout the series, causing them to play out in different ways. Apart from the changes prompted by their getting married, Tommy's survival would have completely changed Laurel's story-arc in Arrow season 2, where she fell into a downward spiral of drug and alcohol abuse due to her guilt over Tommy's death. This, in turn, would have changed the circumstances of how Laurel became Black Canary in season 3, as he would have to have been privy to her secret life. Tommy living beyond Arrow's season 1 finale would also have had a major effect on the character development of his father, Malcolm Merlyn, whose biggest motivating factor following the failure of The Undertaking was protecting his daughter, Thea Queen, who was revealed to be the product of an affair between Malcolm and Moira Queen in Arrow season 2, after Tommy's death. It seems likely that Malcolm would have tried to reach out to Tommy in secret, at least once, trying to win him over as he eventually did with Thea in Arrow's season 2 finale. While this effort would likely be unsuccessful, it would also fuel an interesting new dynamic between Tommy and Thea, whom he already viewed as the little sister he'd never had while growing up with her and Oliver. Tommy would likely have some strong opinions about his baby sister being trained as an assassin, even if she was fighting alongside his vigilante wife. The fact that Tommy and Black Siren never met before Oliver Queen's funeral in the Arrow series finale suggests some interesting things about Arrow season 6, where Black Siren impersonated the deceased Laurel Lance and claimed to have been held hostage for the past two years after having her death faked. Tommy must have had to go into hiding for some reason, because there's no obvious way to account for why he wouldn't have been forced to publicly reunite with his wife and wind up bonding with Black Siren as she played at being Laurel, the same way she bonded with Quentin Lance. One possibility is that Tommy went into hiding around that same time to sell the idea that he was Green Arrow, which puts another interesting spin on how the Human Target Christopher Chance took on Tommy Merlyn's identity and appeared in court claiming to be Green Arrow to clear Oliver's name on charges of vigilantism. Edited June 18, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
statsgirl June 19, 2020 Share June 19, 2020 I like Matt Morrison's musings. He really gets into the show, in an analytic fan kind of way. On 6/18/2020 at 9:36 AM, tv echo said: I have now learned from multiple sources that Kreisberg, who was a cocreator on a number of superhero shows in the CW Arrowverse, was paid nearly $10 million by Warner Bros. after he was let go. The studio and Kreisberg’s lawyer declined to comment on the matter. “Some people might say that it’s apples and oranges—cutting the pay of assistants versus what the studio paid Kreisberg not all that long ago,” said a writer-producer who worked in the Arrowverse. “But it just reinforces the fact that those at the top of the food chain are protected, while the people who are most vulnerable have no options and have to take it on the chin.” If I were an assistant, I would be soooo pissed off. 1 Link to comment
tv echo June 22, 2020 Share June 22, 2020 (edited) Arrow: What Went Wrong With Seasons 3 & 4 BY THOMAS BACON JUNE 21, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-season-3-4-problems-bad-went-wrong/ Quote That doesn't mean there were no stumbles along the way. Arrow seasons 3 and 4 are regarded as sub-par, with both critics and audiences reacting negatively. This is particularly disappointing given the showrunners certainly couldn't be faulted for their ambition; they were clearly aiming to build on the foundation previously established and change the franchise for the better. And yet something just didn't click. Ironically, the core problem was probably the fact Arrow was inspiring superhero spin-offs. It's not uncommon for a spin-off to unwittingly damage its "parent" show, simply because writers, showrunners, and executive producers find themselves distracted getting the new shows off the ground; even Stargate SG1 suffered when Stargate Atlantis was launched. It didn't help that, in this case, the transition from Arrow to Arrowverse was far from organic. Arrow had typically been a grounded franchise, but now the Emerald Archer existed in a world of super-speedsters and sorcerers. Even Stephen Amell found himself disappointed with Arrow season 4. "There's a lull in any relationship, where you have a come-to-Jesus moment, and that happened to me in Season 4," he observed. "We are a street-level crime-fighting show. We're at our best when we're focused on those things." He openly noted season 5 could be the end of the road. * * * The most successful superhero franchises are those that have a clear theme and concept behind them. That's true in the comics, where the X-Men stand for the battle for equality, where Superman acts as a symbol of American self-identity, and where Ghost Rider is a Spirit of Vengeance incarnate. It's true with superhero TV adaptations as well, and for Arrow, the core theme is the redemption of Oliver Queen, as he attempts to battle against a tide of corruption. The supernatural threats of Ra's al Ghul and Damien Darhk just didn't fit with Arrow on a tonal or thematic level. The sci-fi addition of Ray Palmer was just as awkward. It's notable that both Darhk and Ray Palmer were moved over to Legends of Tomorrow, where they proved a much better fit. The writers seem to have been aware of the problem, struggling to build momentum for Darhk in particular. Essentially, in seasons 3 and 4 Arrow lost its identity; it forgot what differentiated it from every other superhero show. Coming out of season 4, the showrunners chose to mix things up a bit, to return to some of the central themes and concepts that lie at the heart of Arrow. They figured out new ways to do the flashbacks, using them to help develop the backstory of other characters rather than just Oliver Queen and then pivoted to using flash-forwards instead. In so doing, they successfully established what will hopefully prove to be Arrow's spiritual successor, Green Arrow and the Canaries. Original source of SA quote (used in above article):https://ew.com/article/2016/11/10/arrow-ideal-ending-stephen-amell-marc-guggenheim/ Edited June 22, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo June 25, 2020 Share June 25, 2020 (edited) I don't like when anyone generalizes by using terms like"most" or "all" or "almost all" in purporting to speak for others (unless they have legit studies or statistics to back up such statements); however, I do agree that Diaz was a major problem with S6... Arrow: 5 Best Fight Scenes (5 That Let Fans Down) Garrett Benningfield June 24, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-best-worst-fight-scenes/ Quote 8/10 Let Fans Down: Arrow Vs Diaz ... While comparing the eight seasons of Arrow, most can agree that season 6 is one of the dullest. In Season 6, Episode 23, Arrow faces off with Diaz, the main villain of season 6. The problem lies with how weak the season is. Fans were let down by the entire season, therefore, the final fight did not mean a great deal. 10/10 Let Fans Down: Oliver Vs Malcolm Merlyn [4x13] 9/10 Best: Arrow Vs Prometheus [5x16] 8/10 Let Fans Down: Arrow Vs Diaz [6x23] 7/10 Best: Arrow Vs Malcolm Merlyn [every fight in S1] 6/10 Let Fans Down: Corto Maltese [3x03] 5/10 Best: Ra's Al Ghul Vs Oliver [3x09] 4/10 Let Fans Down: Arrow Vs Damien Darhk [every fight in S4] 3/10 Best: Arrow Vs Slade Wilson [2z23] 2/10 Let Fans Down: Arrow Vs Prometheus [5x23] 1/10 Best: Arrow Vs Ra's Al Ghul [3x23] Edited June 25, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo June 26, 2020 Share June 26, 2020 (edited) Huh?... Ridiculous ways TV characters were killed off and brought back BY BRIAN BOONE JUNE 25, 2020https://www.looper.com/221358/ridiculous-ways-tv-characters-were-killed-off-and-brought-back/ Quote For Arrow, it was the right character from the wrong Earth * * * Katie Cassidy was an original cast member of Arrow, portraying superhero Black Canary (or in her regular life, Laurel Lance), a role she reprised on The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow. As she was a major figure in the show, her death in the 2016 Arrow episode "Eleven-Fifty-Nine" was especially heartbreaking. In this episode, the evil Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) stages a prison riot to provide the means to break himself out of incarceration. With his powers restored, he escapes ... but not after stabbing Laurel Lance. But remember, this is a comic book show. Just a month later, Cassidy popped up on an episode of The Flash, which had recently begun exploring the notion of a "multiverse" and several different versions of the same character. And as it turns out, the late Laurel Lance initially portrayed by Cassidy wasn't the regular Laurel Lance, but she was rather a different, lookalike Laurel Lance from the alternate Earth-2. Yeah, it's pretty confusing. Edited June 26, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo June 30, 2020 Share June 30, 2020 (edited) Actor Neil Jackson (who plays Jordan Mahkent/Icicle on Stargirl) recently gave an interview in which he talked about almost being cast in Arrow... STARGIRL: Actor Neil Jackson on new The CW series and SLEEPY HOLLOW – Exclusive Interview – Part 1 By ABBIE BERNSTEIN June 30th, 2020https://www.assignmentx.com/2020/stargirl-actor-neil-jackson-on-new-the-cw-series-and-sleepy-hollow-exclusive-interview-part-1/ Quote ASSIGNMENT X: Before STARGIRL, were you familiar with either the comics and/or The CW DC superhero franchise? NEIL JACKSON: I was aware of The CW superhero franchise. There was a point I was going to be cast in ARROW, so I was very aware of ARROW. And I knew of the comic books. I’ve been friends with Geoff Johns, who created it, for sixteen years, ever since we did BLADE: THE SERIES together. So I knew of them, but I hadn’t read them. So when Geoff called me up and offered me a role in January of last year, I started looking at who this Icicle character was. And I realized pretty quickly that what Geoff had created with his scripts for this TV series was very different than any iteration of Jordan in the comic books. I think Icicle had also appeared in THE FLASH, and had a couple of TV appearances. But this was a very different character, so we decided to not ignore, but just not consciously reference the previous iterations, and create something brand-new. The thing that we talked about is, this character is harboring so much pain, and so much sadness as the result of the death of his wife, and that is the wash that carries the character through to his motivation. Edited June 30, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 2, 2020 Share July 2, 2020 (edited) I wish the writer had disclosed the source(s) of her information... Arrowverse: The 10 Highest-Paid Actors (& How Much They Get) Stephanie Harper July 1, 2020https://www.thethings.com/arrowverse-highest-paid-actors-how-much-they-get/ Quote Katie Cassidy’s Net Worth Is $3 Million ... Katie Cassidy's net worth is $3 million. We recognize Katie Cassidy from Arrow where she plays the mysterious role of Black Canary. Katie Cassidy is definitely an impressive actress and we have a lot of respect for her. Other than her time on Arrow, she has also appeared on Gossip Girl, Supernatural, and Melrose Place. Let’s not forget that she also starred in a film with Leighton Meester and Selena Gomez called Monte Carlo back in 2011. Katie Cassidy's net worth only stands to keep growing the more she succeeds! * * *2/10 Stephen Amell’s Net Worth Is $7 Million ... Stephen Amell’s net worth lands at $7 million. Stephen Amell plays the role of Arrow, a superhero who knows how to use a bow and arrow to take down bad guys, villains, and enemies. He stars in Arrow alongside the likes of Emily Bett Rickards, Katie Cassidy, David Ramsey, and Willa Holland. Arrow was such a successful CW show that it lasted for eight seasons! It started in 2012 and didn’t come to an end until 2020. Stephen Amell was such a great choice to take on this heroic role because in every episode of Arrow we had no choice but to take him seriously in his pursuit of justice. 10/10 Brec Bassinger’s Net Worth Is $2 Million 9/10 Ruby Rose's Net Worth Is $2 Million 8/10 Candice Patton’s Net Worth Is $2 Million7/10 Katie Cassidy’s Net Worth Is $3 Million 6/10 Danielle Panabaker’s Net Worth Is $3 Million 5/10 Melissa Benoist’s Net Worth Is $4 Million 4/10 Chyler Leigh’s Net Worth Is $5 Million 3/10 Grant Gustin’s Net Worth Is $5 Million2/10 Stephen Amell’s Net Worth Is $7 Million 1/10 Brandon Routh’s Net Worth Is $12 Million Edited July 2, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 3, 2020 Share July 3, 2020 (edited) The Flash, Supergirl, Black Lightning, Stargirl, and Arrow Go Pro-Mask Ray Flook July 2, 2020https://bleedingcool.com/tv/the-flash-supergirl-black-lightning-stargirl-and-arrow-go-pro-mask/ Quote Though we're going on about the fourth month of the COVID-19 pandemic, numbers of infected in a vast majority of the states in this country are starting to rise at rates that surpass the initial outbreak. So for those of you who still foolishly see this as a "personal rights" issue or part of some "deep state conspiracy," Warner Bros TV is going to try to get through to you through your Arrowverse friends. Here's a look at The Flash, Supergirl, Black Lightning, Stargirl, and Arrow sporting the latest in social distancing fashion wear, urging us to be superheroes during the pandemic by wearing masks and saving lives. Do you get how important it is to wear a mask? People who wear masks are wearing masks. Except for Kara, but she's probably immune- and even she's afraid of some weird Kryptonian virus mutation. .... Edited July 3, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
RS3 July 4, 2020 Share July 4, 2020 (edited) On 7/2/2020 at 5:26 PM, tv echo said: I wish the writer had disclosed the source(s) of her information... I just checked a few and it seems like the source is google. Lol. However all of the numbers can come from different random sites so I wouldn't put too much stock into them. Idk how these things are calculated but I think (?) that net worth isn't the same as the actual paycheck. Edited July 4, 2020 by RS3 1 Link to comment
tv echo July 4, 2020 Share July 4, 2020 (edited) #FlashBackSaturday - This 2014 interview with ST is new to me and was published the day after 2x20 (Seeing Red, when Moira was killed by Slade) aired... ‘Arrow’ Q&A: Susanna Thompson Talks Moira Queen Twist April 24, 2014https://www.accessonline.com/articles/arrow-qa-susanna-thompson-talks-moira-queen-twist-146542 Quote Access: They do and in one instance, shooting the death scene was, sadly, the last scene one actor did on the show. Susanna: Everything is based on schedule with ‘Arrow,’ everything with the filming and Mark Bunting, the [Assistant Director] for that particular episode, said, ‘Susanna, I’m sorry, but we have to film it the second day.’ And I said, ‘Well, at least it’s not the first day, Mark.’ And it was at the end of the day on the second day of filming and it was dark and rainy and wet and muddy and late and it was all very fitting for that particular scene and everybody came ready to play, everybody sort of treated it very sacredly, actually. There was a sense of… honoring me, as an actor and what we were all about to do for this character. Access: What was your last scene? Susanna: I had two last scenes. I was wrapped from the main unit on [the] Friday and my last day on the main unit was with [actress] Anna Hopkins, and so that’s where I pay off [the woman carrying Oliver’s child, who Anna was playing]. She’s a lovely actress. … She had no idea that it was real. She read the script, but she didn’t believe that they were killing me until the whole crew surrounded me with flowers and clapping and applause and she was in shock, apparently. She wrote me a long email when she got back to her hotel room saying, ‘I had no idea, and one of the reasons I was doing the show is I wanted to work with you and I was so happy that I was going to get to work with you.’ And, she just wished me the best. … And then, I wrapped second unit with Thea interrupting my press interview in the house and so Willa [Holland] … she was with me my last scene and when Mark Bunting whispered in her ears that it was sort of the window shot, she burst into tears, and I was like, ‘Oh dear. Mark, why did you do that?’ and then again more flowers. My hotel room looked like a hospital room. It was crazy, and I kept telling people, ‘No more. No more. I can’t travel with them.’ So, it was very nice and the cast and various crew members took me out to dinner. And, you know, it’s two years of relationships and when you work in a different city than your home, you create bigger relationships. * * *Access: You and Stephen had that great scene where Moira told Oliver she knew his secret. That had to have been tough. Susanna: Oh, that was a beautiful, beautiful. … You just get to certain places in the character and in various episodes where your guard is completely down and the truth has to come through and they had already gotten there in [the episode] where Thea was kidnapped, and so Moira, just the truth of who she is and talking about her impact, you know, ‘you’re always worried what the world’s going to do to your children, but you don’t think about what you’re going to do to your children.’ And so that place was already like opened up and now, you get to this other place, where she expresses what she knows. We were both excited because both Stephen and I believed that Moira knew for a while. The writers weren’t convinced of it, I don’t think, and they had to make sense of it… they had to go back and piece it together and figure out where she could have known. And that’s what they came up with for that scene. But I think the most emotional scene for Stephen and I was the flashback scene up on the landing. Access: Where he gets emotional and he’s like, ‘I’m not ready to be a dad.’ Susanna: Yep, because not only is it what’s happening for Oliver, the two actors, also, are going back to the pilot, which was intentional to have those words be spoken again of, ‘My beautiful boy.’ And she spoke that when she saw Oliver for the first time after him being rescued. So it was on many levels — it was character and actor, actors experiencing this. And I really couldn’t talk to him because I would have just lost it. I couldn’t talk to Stephen as a person. I had to just keep focus because I was having different sensorial memories, and then adding that to the scene and Doug [Aarniokoski], our director, was just so happy with it. He felt like it was just this tiny, tiny, private, private little moment that we were all getting a chance to glimpse. Access: So true. Susanna: I think what’s satisfying for Stephen and I, is that we’ve always believed — and the writers created this — that Oliver and Moira have had this genuine connection with each other from day 1, and it’s all these different life moments that sort of put these obstacles in there for them. But this is a moment where you get to see how close they are. Access: How do you feel about Moira going out a hero? Some people want to say she’s a villain, but I’ve actually just seen her as troubled. Susanna: I have always thought of her as troubled as well. Her choices are definitely not the choices I would have made as a person, but the writers had talked about a season of redemption and I think this was the ultimate [moment] of redemption. It really was and they didn’t know how they would have her die and when Andrew [Kreisberg, ‘Arrow’s’ Executive Producer] and I were chatting, when he first let me know what was happening, he was throwing around a couple of ideas to me and I said to him, ‘Just please listen to me — you’ve said for two years now that everything she does is motivated by the love of her children. Please let her go out saving her children and not some other character, or make it a storyline where she could at least embrace the image of motherhood because that’s where you have written her. At least honor that motherhood part of her.’ And they did. They did it beautifully. Access: Obviously they set it up that you could come back in flashbacks… Susanna: I guess anything’s possible (laughs). They haven’t come ringing my bell yet, so I guess anything’s possible on this show. This is a first for me, having a character die, but it also is clearly a show that has flashbacks, so who knows. Edited July 4, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo July 12, 2020 Share July 12, 2020 (edited) Arrow: Why Oliver Ended Up With Felicity (Not Laurel) BY NICHOLAS RAYMOND JULY 11, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-oliver-felicity-relationship-not-laurel-reason/ Quote Laurel Lance (Katie Cassidy) was clearly set up to be Oliver’s primary love interest on Arrow, so why did the Emerald Archer end up with Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards) instead? Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Laurel had romantic feelings for each other in the beginning of the series, but at least one of them moved on. A love story between Oliver and Felicity took shape starting in season 2, culminating in a wedding in season 6. Laurel Lance was introduced in the pilot episode as the ex-girlfriend that Oliver Queen betrayed by sleeping with her sister, whom he took aboard the Queen’s Gambit, where she was presumably killed. Laurel was working as a lawyer when Oliver returned from his five-year absence. She understandably resented Oliver for what he did and initially served as a staunch opponent of his vigilante persona, “The Hood”. Despite their problems, romantic feelings between them lingered, but the series eventually moved on from their relationship and focused instead on putting Oliver and Felicity together. * * *Some have attributed the decision to abandon Laurel as the main love interest to Felicity’s popularity, but it goes deeper than that. Oliver not being with Laurel has a lot to do with his character’s arc in seasons 1 and 2. Oliver and Laurel did share a few romantic moments, and at the end of season 1, Oliver finally decided to get together with her again. That changed after the death of Tommy Merlyn (Colin Donell), which devastated both characters and caused them to rethink their relationship, with Laurel feeling that she had betrayed Tommy. Plus, Laurel developed a vendetta against the Hood, which complicated things further. Also, Oliver was against resuming their romance. Around this time, Arrow put less focus on Oliver’s relationship with Laurel and more so on his budding dynamic with Felicity. * * *According to Stephen Amell, Laurel not dying in season 4 wouldn’t have made a difference when it came to their romance, as it he was never going to get back together with Laurel. This was illustrated in her death scene, when she admitted that she was still in love with Oliver, but acknowledged that she wasn’t the love of Oliver’s life. Arrowverse producer Marc Guggenheim has explained in the past that even though Green Arrow and Black Canary are supposed to be together in the comics, Arrow is telling its own story. Guggenheim has said that Arrow finished its Oliver-Laurel love story in season 1, and that the writers had no intention of going back to it [via DC Comics]. Emily Bett Rickards’ performance and chemistry with Stephen Amell’s Oliver worked so well for the show that it felt like the natural direction for the show, even if it wasn’t what was originally planned for the show. Felicity was a minor character from the beginning, but as the story progressed, it became apparent to the writers that Felicity was the character Oliver should end up with. Edited July 12, 2020 by tv echo 3 Link to comment
tv echo July 12, 2020 Share July 12, 2020 (edited) ^^^ And here's the DC Comics interview (from 2016, after 4x18-Eleven-Fifty-Nine aired) that's linked in the above ScreenRant article... Changing Everything: Arrow Producers and Cast Discuss Season 4's Shocking Death By Tim Beedle April 6th, 2016https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2016/04/06/changing-everything-arrow-producers-and-cast-discuss-season-4s-shocking-death Quote To answer that question and fill us in on what this means for the show, we caught up with Arrow Executive Producers Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle, along with actors Paul Blackthorne (Quentin Lance) and the dearly departed herself, Katie Cassidy (Laurel Lance), at a recent event to discuss tonight’s emotionally charged episode and tearjerker of a death. * * *So why Laurel? Marc Guggenheim: Arrow is always evolving. It’s a show where every character, arguably except for Oliver, is fair game. We started off this year with the promise of a death, and when we worked our way through our creative choices, we realized that the thing that will give us the most pop going into the end of the season and next season, unfortunately, would be Laurel. We knew that it would enrage a lot of people. We’re not blind to the “shipping” and the internet controversy, but we’ve never made decisions on the show creatively because of the internet. One of the things we knew that people would think is that in a season where Oliver and Felicity get engaged and Laurel dies, that’s clearly making a choice about who’s going to end up with whom. Truth be told, we told the Laurel/Oliver romance story in Season 1. We never really thought about going back to it. We recognize that upsets a lot of fans, particularly the comic book fans. In the comics, Dinah Lance and Oliver Queen are in a romance together. To some people, that is considered canonical and iconic. We respect that, but at the same time we’ve always made no bones about the fact that we’re telling our own version of the Green Arrow mythos. Green Arrow and Black Canary have had so many different interpretations over the years that we never felt beholden to one particular interpretation. This is our interpretation, like it or not, and I recognize that there are plenty of people up and down my Twitter feed who do not like it. I totally respect that. But it made the most creative sense for us going forward, despite the fact that we love Katie. We absolutely love her. That part, not getting the chance to work with Katie day in and day out is tempered by the fact that now lives in a universe where there’s resurrection, parallel earths, time travel and flashbacks. We have all these different ways of keeping Katie in the Arrowverse family. In fact, you will see her in an episode of Flash, playing the Earth-2 version of Laurel Lance. Katie is also reprising her role as Laurel of Earth-1 in Vixen Season 2. Death does not mean goodbye on any of these shows. * * *Katie, can you talk about the emotions of shooting your death scene? Katie Cassidy: I had found out that this was the choice that was going to be made creatively right before we were shooting some court scenes, and I remember having to put it on the backburner because I had a huge day of legal jargon ahead. But it actually worked out really well because I’m actually in in flashbacks. The scene where I’m in the hospital and I say to the team that I was thinking of giving up the Black Canary and I couldn’t do it—shooting that scene was so real for me because it was my saying goodbye to the team and all of us. It definitely wasn’t difficult for me to get to that emotional point. It was hard, but it was very real and I felt like that was good. It was genuine. * * *Should viewers be suspicious about how the death was presented? How Laurel was fine and wanted some sort of favor from Oliver, and then the next time we see her, she’s dying? Guggenheim: That’s the joke I’ve been making—“Oliver Queen killed Laurel!” There are certain coins of the realm on our show. Death is one of them, mysteries and secrets are another. What did Laurel say to Oliver? We didn’t intend for it to be that she asked Oliver to euthanize her. But could he have drugged her and faked her death? Guggenheim: No, we’ve done that. We’ve done a fake death before. That’s the thing. We’re always trying to figure out new ways of doing this. That fake out where she was okay and then she wasn’t was our attempt at doing a death that we hadn’t done before. We’ve had people killed right in front of Oliver, we’ve faked a death, we’ve had someone be fatally injured and then Oliver arrives on the scene. The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones have this same creative challenge. It’s the nature of having a long-running show that deals with death as a major component of it. * * *Katie, how did you go about letting go of the character after you found out about the plan? Cassidy: Since Season 2 up until now, Laurel has had a truly amazing journey. The writers have written so well for me and I’ve had such an incredible arc. It made sense to me creatively. Laurel’s story has come to an end in the Arrowverse. I love everyone on set and our crew. Being there for four and a half years, they’ve become family, so it’s hard to not go into work every day and get to work with such amazing people. That part is certainly sad, but I was okay with it. We all came to an understanding that this was what was going to happen and it made sense to me. I think the shock value is good. It’s such a jolt and a turn in the story that it gives the writers so much more to do and places to go with it. Otherwise, I feel like shows can get stale. * * *So what sort of emotional aftermath will this have on the rest of the team? Mericle: Well, it’s going to be huge and significant. There’s no question that it is going to be shocking. It was a shocking thing for us to process. We really wanted to make sure we in a way that was very honorable and that gave us space to honor all of the characters’ reactions to it. The episode’s we’ve written after this one are devastating, and they’re meant to be. That’s what we wanted. We wanted to explore that and have everyone feel the impact of this loss because it is significant. It’s a game changer. In both a very sad way because we’re losing a beloved character, but also in a sense that it’s going to open up new storytelling avenues and will force our character to rethink their decisions and their objectives. Death is a reality on this show, and I think with the Lazarus Pit and possibility of coming back that it’s easy sometimes to forget that our characters are vigilantes. They’re out on the street and they’re doing really dangerous things. What this does is it really brings that reality back in a very brutal way. I think it’s good for the audience to be reminded of that and our characters as well. * * *How much guilt will the characters be carrying over this? Guggenheim: We’ve already heard Oliver say in the first episode’s flashforward that in the past he would have blamed himself. It’s still Oliver. There’s an element of that. But Diggle… Like he says in that hospital, he’ll never forgive himself. I’d say the biggest consequences emotionally are felt by Thea and Diggle. You can draw a straightish line from his decisions in this episode to Laurel’s death, and that’s certainly not a fact lost on him. * * *Katie, what was the most memorable part of playing Laurel for four seasons? Cassidy: When I put the jacket on for the first time at the end of Season 2. Guggenheim: I remember that night! Cassidy: Yeah, I still get a little choked up talking about it because I was so excited. I remember trying on the jacket because I’d been waiting for that moment. I think that for me was the turning point. Obviously, in Season 2, my character had a really hard time. The writers were writing so brilliantly and it was great to be able to take on that challenge and hit rock bottom and then come back on top. Being in fight training and getting to become a strong female character that’s also out there kicking some ass too was definitely something cool. I had a blast doing it. Edited July 12, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 13, 2020 Share July 13, 2020 (edited) So I wonder how this is consistent with Black Siren's Earth-2 on Arrow where Oliver Queen died and Robert Queen became the Green Arrow (but is now probably dead as well). Or maybe it's just more confirmation that the post-Crisis Earth-2 is completely different from Black Siren's original Earth-2... Stargirl Confirms The Original Green Arrow Exists On Her Earth Matt Morrison July 13, 2020https://screenrant.com/stargirl-green-arrow-golden-age-earth-2/ Quote DC Universe's Stargirl season 1, episode 9 confirmed that Green Arrow exists in the new Arrowverse's Earth-2. While he isn't referred to by his codename or as Oliver Queen, a photo from Pat Dugan's past clearly depicts a figure clad in the original Green Arrow costume from the Golden Age of American Comics, as well as his sidekick, Speedy. * * *Stargirl season 1, episode 9, "Brainwave," revealed the existence of Green Arrow through a photo that Pat Dugan showed Courtney Whitmore, while he was telling her about his adventures as Stripsey alongside Sylvester Pemberton, the Star-Spangled Kid. Pat explained that he and Pemberton were part of another superhero team before they became involved with the Justice Society of America and Pemberton became Starman; The Seven Soldiers of Victory. The black-and-white photo showed Dugan and Pemberton with six other costumed figures, including a man and a boy dressed in the original costumes of Green Arrow and Speedy. Courtney was less than impressed, asking why they were called the Seven Soldiers when there were eight of them and mockingly noting that the team had "Robin Hood and a knight" along with "a cowboy, like The Village People." Pat was quick to defend his former teammates, identifying the cowboy as the Vigilante, along with the Crimson Avenger and his sidekick, Wing. Pat did not mention the names of Green Arrow, Speedy, or the Shining Knight, but he said they were all "good men trying their best" despite the team never getting the recognition that the Justice Society of America did. Pat noted that he lost track of the other Seven Soldiers over the years, but he wished he had kept in touch with them since the new JSA needed all the help they could get against the Injustice Society. Thankfully, it seems that the Shining Knight is already close at hand, based on the earlier episodes of Stargirl. This suggests it is entirely possible that Green Arrow might make an appearance as well, though it probably won't be Stephen Amell in a cameo appearance. Edited July 13, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 15, 2020 Share July 15, 2020 (edited) Why the Arrowverse crossovers still need the Green Arrow Rachel Carrington July 14, 2020https://hiddenremote.com/2020/07/14/arrowverse-crossovers-need-green-arrow/ Quote Green Arrow has always been the leader In every crossover, the heroes looked to the Green Arrow for instructions and guidance. He’s been the leader of most of the heroes for eight years. Not only has he been there with a helping hand, but he’s offered solid advice when needed. No one, not even the super-powered heroes have his knowledge and hard-earned wisdom. In each crossover, Oliver gave the orders, and the heroes followed his lead. Though others had ideas, for the most part, Oliver controlled the steps they would take. No one else showed promise as a leader. Green Arrow’s experience is needed Though there are superheroes in the Arrowverse, none have the level of experience Oliver Queen has when dealing with criminals or hardcore evil. He withstood torture, survived five years in what was essentially a purgatory, and came back stronger. Nine times out of 10, he out-thought his enemies. The times when he couldn’t, he had enviable skills that enabled him to get the best of them. He can win without superpowers It wasn’t until Season 5 that anyone on Arrow’s team had superpowers. Yet, they battled enemies like Damien Darhk and Ra’s al Ghul. Oliver himself has always been just a man who, through training, had become a weapon. He’s been shot, stabbed, poisoned, drugged, served time in the hardest prison in the Arrowverse, and survived it all. Most of the heroes in the crossovers have powers they can use to their advantage, but they are restricted when those powers are. Oliver could come out on top without the need for powers. Which is precisely why the teams need him, especially in times of crises which is what the crossovers are all about. Edited July 15, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo July 15, 2020 Share July 15, 2020 (edited) Arrow: How The Original Laurel's Life Changed After Crisis on Infinite Earths Matt Morrison July 15, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-laurel-earth-1-after-crisis-infinite-earths/ Quote Tommy Merlyn's resurrection in the series finale of Arrow, following Crisis on Infinite Earths, must have brought about major changes in the life of the original Laurel Lance. Despite still dying at the hands of Damien Darhk in the revised timeline, Laurel likely enjoyed a much happier life while married to Tommy than she did before Crisis. * * * The details of Laurel's death were not discussed in the Arrow finale, but it can be safely presumed she died the same way that she did in the original timeline, fighting the sorcerer Damien Darhk. This was indirectly confirmed during the Post-Crisis Legends of Tomorrow episode "Mr. Parker's Cul-De-Sac," where Sara still maintained her hatred for Darhk and a desire to avenge Laurel's murder. While Sara was able to bite her tongue and hold her sword during the wedding of Damien's daughter's Nora Darkh and Ray Palmer, she still refused to shake hands with him as a gesture of respect to a worthy foe once the party was over. Even with Laurel's death established as a fixed point in time, Tommy Merlyn's surviving Arrow's season 1 finale would have drastically changed her life for the better. No exact date was given for when Laurel and Tommy got married in the new timeline, but sometime during the summer of 2013 seems a safe bet. Whenever it was, Laurel would have had no reason to have the breakdown that dominated her storyline in Arrow season 2 if Tommy Merlyn was still alive and kicking. This also means she probably would have been in a better state of mind to accept her sister's survival, Sara dating Oliver Queen and discovering that they were the Arrow and the Canary. This, in turn, would probably have put Laurel in a better place to win Team Arrow's acceptance when she began training to become Black Canary in the wake of Sara's murder. While Laurel had originally been aware of Oliver and Sara's secret identities, she was still not on good terms with Oliver personally and Oliver dismissed Laurel's efforts at trying to help him with investigating Sara's murder and protecting Starling City as Arrow season 3 continued. Having Tommy there to act as a buffer between the two would have changed things considerably, though it's unlikely Tommy would have been entirely comfortable with his wife going out at night and beating up muggers, even if he was trying to be supportive of her. Edited July 15, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
scarynikki12 July 15, 2020 Share July 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, tv echo said: The details of Laurel's death were not discussed in the Arrow finale, but it can be safely presumed she died the same way that she did in the original timeline, fighting the sorcerer Damien Darhk. This was indirectly confirmed during the Post-Crisis Legends of Tomorrow episode "Mr. Parker's Cul-De-Sac," where Sara still maintained her hatred for Darhk and a desire to avenge Laurel's murder. While Sara was able to bite her tongue and hold her sword during the wedding of Damien's daughter's Nora Darkh and Ray Palmer, she still refused to shake hands with him as a gesture of respect to a worthy foe once the party was over. Not necessarily since Sara and the other Paragons weren't given memories of the new timeline. She was likely told the highlights of Laurel's life in the new timeline but her hatred of Damien would still have been due to Laurel's murder in the original one as well as his actions against her and the team in LOT seasons 2 and 3. It's not the best evidence they could have chosen even if I agree that Laurel's murder happened in a similar/the same way as shown in season 4. 2 Link to comment
Featherhat July 15, 2020 Share July 15, 2020 (edited) It's an interesting article but it makes several other leaps as well. Whilst she might have been on better terms with Oliver and Sara in S2 there's no reason to think Oliver would welcome her into the Foundry anymore than he did before because they were on pretty good terms in "The Calm" with "you catch em I cook em! (lets get back together)" and she was on good terms with Sara right before she died. That's not the reason Oliver didn't want her being a vigilante. And I can't see Tommy acting as a buffer between them. If anything he'd be more worried than Oliver about Laurel getting killed and possibly back to blaming Oliver for starting all this ala Quentin, not to mention dealing with his Dad being back and brainwashing Thea etc. And I don't think they'd have wanted to re do too much of Tommy/Laurel/Oliver non romantic drama even in this most melodramatic and angsty of seasons. Edited July 15, 2020 by Featherhat 1 1 Link to comment
tv echo July 17, 2020 Share July 17, 2020 (edited) Everyone Who Knows Batman's Secret Identity In The Arrowverse MATT MORRISON JULY 16, 2020https://screenrant.com/batman-arrowverse-batwoman-bruce-wayne-secret-identity-revealed/ Quote Those characters included here are limited to characters who exist post-Crisis on Earth-Prime who were informed of Bruce Wayne's secret identity on-screen or would have a logical reason to know it. While it seems a safe bet that Ray Palmer might spill the beans to the rest of his "time bros" in the Legends or that Barry Allen might confide the secret to his wife, it isn't absolutely certain they did so. This also skips those characters from the comics who know Bruce Wayne is Batman who are said to exist in the Arrowverse, but there is not enough information to confirm a similar relationship between them and Batman, like the thus-far unseen Arrowverse version of Oracle. * * *Felicity Smoak ... Team Arrow's resident hacker and Oliver Queen's wife did not appear on-camera during Crisis on Infinite Earths, but she still had a role to play in the comics tying into the event. These told the story (which the Monitor made reference to in "Crisis of Infinite Earths - Part Two") of how Felicity traveled to Earth-12 and discovered the prophecy of the Seven Paragons needed to defeat the Anti-Monitor in the Book of the Guardians. Given that these prophecies made an explicit reference to the Bruce Wayne of Earth-99 being Batman, it seems safe to guess that the ever-curious Felicity would either ask The Monitor if the Bruce Wayne of her Earth was also Batman or that she would take steps to find out for herself. * * *Mia Smoak ... The daughter of Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak, Mia Smoak was trained from birth in the same skills that made her father into one of the world's finest heroes. Brought back in time by The Monitor as a reward to her father (allowing him to meet her before his prophesied death during the Crisis), Mia happily joined the fight to save all of reality. Mia learned of Bruce Wayne's secret identity along with all the other heroes assembled on the bridge of the Waverider when The Monitor revealed it in "Crisis on Infinite Earths - Part Two." * * *Harbinger/Lyla Michaels ... The director of ARGUS on Earth-1, Lyla Michaels was chosen by the Monitor to assist him in gathering intelligence in the build up to Crisis. She was later cosmically empowered to act as his herald, gathering the heroes the Monitor had chosen for his army from across the Multiverse. The power that allowed Lyla to travel between realities as Harbinger also gave her some knowledge of the heroes who existed on every Earth, allowing her to find a disused Waverider on Earth-74 to act as a base of operations for the Monitor's army. It seems safe to say this same cosmic awareness would also have informed her that Bruce Wayne is Batman. * * *The Spectre/Oliver Queen ... The first publicly acknowledged superhero in the history of Earth-Prime, Oliver Queen died a hero's death to save as many people as possible while Earth-38 was evacuated during "Crisis on Infinite Earths - Part One." Despite the efforts of his friends and family to locate a Lazarus Pit to resurrect him, Oliver Queen had to remain dead to become someone else.... something else. Taking on the mantle of The Spectre, it was Oliver Queen who lit the spark that was needed to restart the multiverse as he and the Paragons battled the Anti-Monitor at the dawn of time. Given his role in rebuilding Earth-Prime and his cosmic awareness, Oliver Queen likely knew that Bruce Wayne was Batman. Edited July 17, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 18, 2020 Share July 18, 2020 (edited) When will ‘Arrow’ Seasons 1-8 Leave Netflix? by Kasey Moore July 14, 2020,https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/leaving-soon/when-will-arrow-seasons-1-8-leave-netflix/ Quote Every season of The CW’s Arrow is now on Netflix where it will remain for the next few years. However, after its contract is up, it will be leaving Netflix as per other The CW shows that have departed. Here’s our best estimation as to when season 1-8 of Arrow will be leaving Netflix and where it’ll be heading. * * * The series first aired in 2013 and has been streaming on Netflix US since September 2014. * * * When exactly will Arrow be leaving? That’s still yet to be officially confirmed but we can look at the likes of The Tomorrow People and 90210 to make a good guess. In the case of The Tomorrow People it was exactly five years after the series final season was added to Netflix. Arrow season 8 was added to Netflix on February 5th, 2020. If that’s the case for Arrow, we’ll be seeing Arrow leaving Netflix in February 2025. That’s obviously a long time away so gives you plenty of wiggle room to watch Arrow many times over and catch the crossover events too such as the most recent Crisis on Infinite Earths event. Other Netflix regions will also likely lose the caped bow-and-arrow wielding superhero series too but not on the US timeline. Unfortunately, we can’t predict when it’ll leave outside the US. * * *Where will Arrow stream once it leaves Netflix? That’s not 100% certain at this point, however smart money would be on HBO Max or DC Universe (assuming it still exists at that point). HBO Max is Warner Medias big attempt at competing with Netflix and has a large DC collection of series and movies. The only thing we’d look to that would say Arrow isn’t heading to HBO Max is that Smallville currently resides on Hulu. The Tomorrow People, the example we used earlier, has yet to find any new home although it’s likely due to the fact it was a co-production between CBS and Warner Brothers Television. Edited July 18, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 18, 2020 Share July 18, 2020 Is Emily Bett Rickards from “Arrow” married? Her Wiki, net worth, husband, partner Stephen Amell, workout snaps, news Poptimes News Team July 17, 2020https://poptimesuk.com/is-emily-bett-rickards-from-arrow-married-her-wiki-net-worth-husband-partner-stephen-amell-workout-snaps-news/26011/Who is Emily Bett Rickards? Emily Bett Rickards was born on 24 July 1991, in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, and is an actress, best known for her breakthrough role in the television series “Arrow”, in which she plays Felicity Smoak; she was initially a guest star before returning as a main character of the show. She’s also played the character in other shows of the Arrow, including “The Flash”, “Supergirl”, “Legends of Tomorrow” and “Vixen”. The Net Worth of Emily Bett Rickards How rich is Emily Bett Rickards? As of early-2019, sources inform us of a net worth that is at $2 million, earned through a successful career in acting. She’s also done theatrical productions and film work during her career, and as she continues her endeavors, it is expected that her wealth will also continue to increase. Early Life, Education, and Career Beginnings Emily Bett grew up in British Columbia, where her mother worked as a dream psychotherapist. At a young age she developed a strong interest in performing, especially dance and musical theatre. She continued to develop her skills in hopes of one day pursuing a career in acting. After matriculating from high school, she enrolled at the Vancouver Film School, where she completed the Acting Essentials Program. She then attended an open call audition which led her to attract an agent, and continued to further her studies by enrolling at the Alida Vocal Studio, located in Vancouver. In 2009, she gained her first professional role in the video of the single entitled “Never Gonna Be Alone” by Nickelback, and subsequently gained a minor role in the show “Random Acts of Romance”, which starred Amanda Tapping. The minor roles continued, including “Flicka: Country Pride” which she starred alongside Kacey Rohl. * * *Breakthrough Rickards got her breakthrough role in the series “Arrow” – it was originally intended as a one episode role, but positive reactions of her performance from producers and co-star Stephen Amell led it to become a recurring role, so successfully that she was promoted as a series regular from the second season onwards. The show is a superhero series based on the DC Comics character “Green Arrow”, and stars Amell as the titular character. The show introduced a new take on the character, and gained generally positive reviews. The success of “Arrow” has led to numerous spin-offs, including “The Flash” which also featured a television version of the popular DC comics’ character of the same name. Other shows include “Vixen”, which is an animated spin-off and “Legends of Tomorrow” which featured other characters of the Arrowverse; Rickards has reprised her role as a guest in all of the spin-off shows. She also worked on the web-based promotional tie-in series entitled “Blood Rush”, which featured Roy Harper played by Colton Haynes, after which she was ranked in 15th spot on a list of 50 Favorite Female Characters in a poll conducted by “The Hollywood Reporter”. 1 Link to comment
tv echo July 20, 2020 Share July 20, 2020 (edited) 27 TV Characters Who Ended Up Being Much Better Than The Shows They Were On by Nora Dominick July 19, 2020https://www.buzzfeed.com/noradominick/tv-characters-better-than-their-shows Quote 23. Felicity Smoak from Arrow ... "I enjoyed the first few seasons and I absolutely loved seeing Oliver and Felicity’s romance, but it got to a point where the writers kept finding things that would keep them apart so I started tiring of it. Felicity became so much better than the show overall. I tried watching the final season, but with Emily Bett Rickards leaving and barely knowing the new characters and storylines, I only ended up watching the final five episodes." —megana459810788 Edited July 20, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 20, 2020 Share July 20, 2020 (edited) The TDF Top 10: Arrow by Baz Greenland July 20, 2020https://www.thedigitalfix.com/television/feature/the-tdf-top-10-arrow/ Quote In our next TDF Top 10, we start a look back at the greatest episodes of each Arrowverse series, starting with the show that kickstarted it all - Arrow... Modern superhero television owes Arrow a huge debt. It kickstarted the Arrowverse, giving us The Flash, Supergirl (from season two), Batwoman and Legends of Tomorrow and showed the world that comic-adaptations on TV could be just as successful as the big screen. Arguably Arrow - and the spin-offs that followed - have done a better job at creating a DC superhero universe than the recent offerings by the DCEU. The latest TV season saw the most ambitious corssover yet in Crisis on Infinite Earths, which brought to an end the show that started it all. There's a strong argument that the most consistent run was season two, which brought the island-based flashbacks and the present day to a head as Oliver Queen went up against his nemesis Slade Wilson, AKA Deathstroke. Some of the very best episodes come from that run. But after a slightly rocky third and fourth season, which saw Arrow struggle to find its footing against more light-hearted shows The Flash and Supergirl, the return to its darker, grittier roots in season five was the best move the show made and there was plenty to enjoy across the rest of the eight season run. Picking the top 10 episodes across those eight seasons is a challenge - partly due to the arc driven nature of the show. Here then, is my top 10; the big episodes that made the most impact to me. Here is The TDF Top 10: Arrow... * * *9. The Odyssey (1.14) ... The episode is framed by some equally momentous events in the present. Oliver lies dying in the present, having been shot by his own mother after attacking her. We start to dig into Diggle's past as he and Felicity help save Oliver; it's this episode that really seals the close bond between the three characters that will carry through to the very end. 10. Starling City (8.01) 9. The Odyssey (1.14) 8. Unthinkable (2.23) 7: Sacrifice (1.23) 6. Seeing Red (2.20) 5: The Slabside Redemption (7.07) 4. Invasion! Part 2 (5.08) 3. The Climb (3.09) 2. The Promise (2.15) 1. Lian Yu (5.23) Edited July 20, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo July 20, 2020 Share July 20, 2020 (edited) 50+ Actors Who Were Casually Replaced on Their Own TV Shows July 19, 2020https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/50-actors-were-casually-replaced-153000272.html Quote 27/56 Black Canary from Arrow Jacqueline MacInnes Wood played Black Canary during Arrow's pilot episode but was rumored to be too busy to continue the job. The role eventually went to Caity Lotz, woman who can fully pull off an eye mask. Edited July 20, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
lemotomato July 20, 2020 Share July 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, tv echo said: the return to its darker, grittier roots in season five was the best move the show made and there was plenty to enjoy across the rest of the eight season run. I’m baffled by the praise for season 5. The show threw out all of Oliver’s character growth and made him incredibly stupid that season for the sake of the plot. He was fooled and betrayed at every turn, by Evelyn, BS, Susan Williams, Thalia, Adrian, and Anatoly. In the crossover he was tricked by aliens. I can’t even watch season 5 again after it aired because I loved Oliver Queen as a character and to see him regressed like that was painful. Edited July 20, 2020 by lemotomato 6 Link to comment
Featherhat July 20, 2020 Share July 20, 2020 48 minutes ago, lemotomato said: I’m baffled by the praise for season 5. The show threw out all of Oliver’s character growth and made him incredibly stupid that season for the sake of the plot. He was fooled and betrayed at every turn, by Evelyn, BS, Susan Williams, Thalia, Adrian, and Anatoly. In the crossover he was tricked by aliens. I can’t even watch season 5 again after it aired because I loved Oliver Queen as a character and to see him regressed like that was painful. I think it's just one of those things that gets thrown around so often people stop thinking about what it even means and questioning it. Ra, ra, Arrow! Dark! Gritty! Violent! Killing! No magic! (except magic rags!) No dumb relationship drama! (except there definitely was!) And they hit the jackpot with JS as Chase, so there are much fewer questions about just how he was able to do everything. If they'd hired someone else there might be just as many complaints about it as there were S6 and Diaz. It's like S2 is many people's favourite but Slade's plan falls apart the minute you look at it closely. Link to comment
statsgirl July 20, 2020 Share July 20, 2020 On 7/12/2020 at 10:01 AM, tv echo said: Truth be told, we told the Laurel/Oliver romance story in Season 1. We never really thought about going back to it. He could skywrite it and people still wouldn't believe it. 47 minutes ago, Featherhat said: And they hit the jackpot with JS as Chase, so there are much fewer questions about just how he was able to do everything. I think JS had a lot to do with it. After two seasons of lame villains, including all the magic of Damian Darhk, it felt like a real return to the glory days with Prometheus. And then two seasons of the lamest of villains in Diaz and season 5 seems like a shining light. If you don't look at the character assassination of Oliver and Felicity, that is. 1 Link to comment
tv echo July 23, 2020 Share July 23, 2020 29 Kids And Parents From TV Shows Who Actually Look Like They're Related by Jasmin Naher July 22, 2020https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasminnahar/kids-and-parents-from-tv-show-look-related11. Mia (Katherine McNamara) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) from Arrow. "They look so similar!!! William and Oliver look pretty similar too. The Arrowverse in general does a really good job with this." —aught Link to comment
tv echo July 23, 2020 Share July 23, 2020 (edited) How Arrow's Original Ending Was Very Different (& Why It Changed) Nicholas Raymond July 20, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-ending-finale-original-plan-flashback-change-reason/ Quote The original ending that the writers and producers had in mind for Arrow was quite different from what actually happened in the series finale. The first Arrowverse series concluded its eight-season run with a funeral for Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell), who died in Crisis on Infinite Earths, followed by a sweet reunion between Oliver and Felicity; however, the show's creator originally had a different vision for how the show's final scene would play out. * * * How does this differ from the original plan for Arrow’s ending? In an interview from 2012 (before Arrow season 1 even premiered), Arrowverse executive producer Marc Guggenheim laid out the show’s flashback formula and explained that the last episode would show Oliver getting rescued [via EW]. The idea behind this was that Arrow was intended to be an origin story, so it made sense for Arrow to end with the final flashback of Oliver’s five-year absence from Starling City. Obviously, this isn’t what happened. Arrow did indeed include the scene of Oliver’s rescue, but that ended up being incorporated into the season 5 finale, well before the end of his Arrowverse story. * * * The reason why this changed is because Arrow outgrew its original plan. Arrow completed Oliver’s origin story in five seasons. Each seasoned consisted of a year’s worth of flashbacks. Since Oliver was only gone for five years, there was nothing left to say about Oliver’s past after season 5. It wouldn’t have worked for this scene to be saved for the season 8 finale. Oliver’s journey lasted so long that it allowed him to accomplish things that went beyond the original scope of Arrow. For example, it was stated that Oliver’s mission to save Star City was finally over in season 7 rather than season 8, which viewers would normally expect to be how the show should end. Arrow became something so much bigger than what it was originally envisioned to be. First of all, Arrow was always going to be a grounded show, but as the world around it grew, Arrow changed and evolved as well. Arrow expanded and created an entire shared universe and shepherded the rise of key DC Comics superheroes like the Flash. It also used magic and metahumans. None of these things were planned from the beginning. Similarly, Oliver giving his life to save the multiverse was an event that came as a natural result of Oliver’s growth as a character and the direction of the Arrowverse. Edited July 23, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
manbearpig July 24, 2020 Share July 24, 2020 I've never understood the praise for season five, either. I haven't seen it since it aired so my memory could be hazy, but it never really worked for me. I never warmed to Chase as a villain, either. He spent about half of the season as a non-entity where he would occasionally appear in a scene or two an episode, and then he was revealed as the villain and was however many steps ahead of everyone at all times, on a show where the lead character had already been written as stupid-for-plot-purposes a lot. 4 Link to comment
tv echo July 26, 2020 Share July 26, 2020 (edited) Comic-Con Flashback: 30 of TVLine's All-Time Favorite Cast Portraits By Team TVLine / July 25 2020https://tvline.com/2020/07/25/comic-con-tv-cast-photos-riverdale-lucifer-walking-dead/ Quote ... And since this year’s special Comic-Con@Home is entirely virtual, we figured we’d take a look back at 30 of our favorite portraits from our years at the con. https://tvline.com/gallery/comic-con-tv-cast-photos-best-portraits/arrow-comic-con-2016/ Quote ARROW (2016) David Ramsey, Echo Kellum, Emily Bett Rickards, John Barrowman, Willa Holland, Stephen Amell and Paul Blackthorne Arrow Comic-Con Flashback: Revisit 8 Years of Cast Videos, From the Origin Story to Stephen Amell's Final Wish By Team TVLine / July 25 2020, https://tvline.com/2020/07/25/arrow-comic-con-interviews-tvline-best-moments-video/ Quote As we lament not being back in San Diego this summer for yet another raucous round of SDCC video Q&As, TVLine has rounded up some of the Arrow cast’s most memorable moments in front of our cameras — starting with series lead Stephen Amell recounting how he came to be the Emerald Archer, followed by the first time “Olicity” graced our couch. ETA: TVLine video is posted in the Social Media thread here or you can watch on youtube here. Edited July 26, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
RS3 July 27, 2020 Share July 27, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 12:53 PM, manbearpig said: I've never understood the praise for season five, either. I haven't seen it since it aired so my memory could be hazy, but it never really worked for me. I never warmed to Chase as a villain, either. He spent about half of the season as a non-entity where he would occasionally appear in a scene or two an episode, and then he was revealed as the villain and was however many steps ahead of everyone at all times, on a show where the lead character had already been written as stupid-for-plot-purposes a lot. Season 5 managed to make me hate Oliver to the point of apathy (and Oliver was always one of my favorites otherwise I wouldn't have kept watching the show). He frustrated me with so many OOC dumb choices until I stopped caring. I'm ashamed to admit that the episode where he got tortured was the first time that I warmed up to him that season. They wrote Oliver around Chase, not the other way around, so they had him revert back to his season 1 persona but more gullible. As for Chase, I can't speak for everyone but I didn't care about Prometheus as a villain until I saw Josh play the villain. I was way more invested in his performance than the writing. It's also the impression I got online. Plus he came on after the season of magic so everyone can look good in comparison. 4 Link to comment
Featherhat July 27, 2020 Share July 27, 2020 I do think JS's performance in 5B is what a lot of people remember. Despite the fact that the plot would have fallen apart if they'd actually written Oliver to be 1% less dumb. Along with deliberate call backs to S1 with the "no one can know my secret" *necksnap* and that OMG! Everything was back to basics and being dark and gritty and grimdark and realistic! You know, except for aliens, Rory's magic robes, aliens, Human target, aliens, Dinah's cry, a 17 year old amazing vigilante, aliens, and a whole island blowing up and only killing 1 person, aliens etc. I also think that once you get a fandom/media group think like that going it's hard to pinpoint why you liked it apart from well obviously you did because it's S5 and everyone agrees it was the best. When in reality it had many of the same issues every season of Arrow does with pacing, lazy writing, plot over characterisation and relying on actor charisma to disguise the plot holes a mile wide. Oh and don't forget if you blamed Olicity for everything that went wrong with S3 and S4 then you automatically have to claim it's 100% perfect because they weren't together and Felicity was more "in her place" in 5A*. Even though Oliver was the dumbest fruit cake pine tree for dating a reporter who already backstabbed his sister (which would have resulted in her getting a visit from the Arrow in S3) and made it very clear she wanted to expose him. Despite the aforementioned neck snapping in ep 1 and the fact that there were many episodes he spent more time in the mayors office plotlines than suited up (or at least it felt like it) whereas that was the worst thing in the world in S4 and 6. * You also have to make a one episode exception and think 520 was the most pointless episode in the entire series, tied with 6x04. SA really did look checked out through out a lot of it, even if he wasn't in reality. 1 4 Link to comment
RS3 July 28, 2020 Share July 28, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Featherhat said: SA really did look checked out through out a lot of it, even if he wasn't in reality. I think it was deliberate, although there were a lot of moments where you couldn't tell. But he did an interview during mid season 5, maybe during the 100th ep cast party (can't remember) where he said Oliver was "at peace" but not happy because the only time Oliver was really happy was when he and Felicity were together. I also remember that, at one point, the Oliver criticism was so bad that he had to defend the writing by saying Oliver was meant to be written like he was lost and confused. I call it criticism because it wasn't baseless hate like the one you see for other characters... But his interview confirmed to me that they messed with his character growth just to make the season arc work. Edited July 28, 2020 by RS3 2 Link to comment
tv echo July 30, 2020 Share July 30, 2020 (edited) FYI... Edited July 31, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo July 31, 2020 Share July 31, 2020 (edited) This article contains the Arrow portion of Vinnie Jones' interview (you can read the rest of his ComicBookMovie interview here and here)... THE BIG UGLY Star Vinnie Jones Reveals That He Pushed For A Regular Role On The CW's ARROW - EXCLUSIVE Josh Wilding 7/29/2020https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/arrow/the-big-ugly-star-vinnie-jones-reveals-that-he-pushed-for-a-regular-role-on-the-cws-arrow-exclusive-a177174#gs.c3plbd Quote Despite only appearing in nine episodes of the long-running CW series, Danny "Brick" Brickwell made a huge impact, and proved to be one of the Emerald Archer's most memorable foes. Now, Jones tells us that he pushed hard for a regular spot on the show as he loved working on the DC Comics series (especially after his disappointing experience with X-Men: The Last Stand). "I was pushing for a regular on that," the actor revealed. "I thought that was a great show. They were great people, it was a great concept, and I thought my character, Brick, was great! I was saying to them, 'You know, let's develop this character. This will do me! I'll be a regular on Arrow.'" "I love Canada and I love Vancouver," Jones continued. "Stephen [Amell] was great, the crew were fantastic. I loved it! I put some big hints around that, 'I'm here to stay if you want me.' They brought me back a couple of times, but every time I went back, I'd feel like I was at home." Given the nature of the Arrowverse and the impact Crisis on Infinite Earths had on that world, it's possible Brick could make a surprise return down the line, and Jones would obviously be very happy to reprise the role should the opportunity present itself. Edited July 31, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo August 2, 2020 Share August 2, 2020 (edited) You can listen to MG's July 29, 2020 episode of Literary Joe's Inner Child Podcast (that's referenced in the articles below) by going to the article links or by going to the podcast site here... ARROW Exclusive: The Creator Of The Arrowverse Dishes On Killing The Hero Who Started It All LiteraryJoe | 7/31/2020https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/arrow/arrow-exclusive-the-creator-of-the-arrowverse-dishes-on-killing-the-hero-who-started-it-all-a177211#gs.bspfog Quote We recently spoke with one of the creators of the Arrowverse, who has been imprinting his creative fingerprint on the comic book television industry, Marc Guggenheim. When chatting with the executive producer/director/screenwriter in support of Tales of Arcadia: Wizards, we couldn't help but ask a few questions about Crisis on Infinite Earths, Legends of Tomorrow, and Arrow. Marc dishes on the death of Oliver Queen and whose decision it was, the tone of the series and Oliver's journey, and bringing the show to an end. As always, if you're interested in hearing the audio component of this interview, click play on the podcast player below. We chat about Arrow around 16:00. * * *Literary Joe: Was Oliver's fate your decision? I know Arrow is significant to you as it started it all. So, is that something that came from you, or is it something you had to learn to deal with? Marc Guggenheim: I, from the jump, was always advocating for Oliver to die. And the reason for that is that if you look at who Oliver Queen is a person when you meet him in the pilot, he's this spoiled jerk before he gets marooned on Lian Yu. ... But even when he comes back from those five years in hell, he's the equivalent of a serial killer, especially in the first season. And I've always felt that the amount of blood he has on his hands has to be repaid with his blood ultimately. And it never really occurred to me that his story should end any other way. Now, the original plan was that I always assumed he would die in the last episode of the show. But once we knew that Crisis on Infinite Earths was lining up with Arrow's final season, we changed some things. * * *Literary Joe: Right, it kind of worked out perfectly. Marc Guggenheim: I think so. I know that there's a lot of fans who feel like Oliver deserved a happy ending. And I would say, for my money, that we gave him the Arrow version of one. Arrow has always been a dark show, and I think the show has sort of thrived in its darkness. And that's one of the reasons why the idea that he would get a traditional happy ending, where he gets to run off into the sunset with his wife, and his daughter felt in congruence with the tone of the show. Literary Joe: Definitely, and I think that from a character standpoint and from Oliver's point of view, I definitely think that the ending that he got is the ending that he's always expected he was going to line up based on all the choices in his life and based on everything that's led to this point. Marc Guggenheim: Yeah, absolutely. CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS Exclusive: Marc Guggenheim Discusses The Biggest DC TV Crossover Ever LiteraryJoe | 7/31/2020https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/crisis-on-infinite-earths-exclusive-marc-guggenheim-discusses-the-biggest-dc-tv-crossover-ever-a177209#gs.bsr4rl Quote Literary Joe: Crisis was a crazy and wild ride. Everyone came back, including Tom Welling (Smallville) and John Wesley Shipp (The Flash). I'm curious to know what moment in Crisis on Infinite Earths made you geek out the most? Marc Guggenheim: Gosh, that is a tough, tough, tough question. There was no single moment, quite frankly. Because if you asked me this question tomorrow, you'd probably get a different answer. I can't personally choose between Old Man Bruce Wayne, Smallville Clark, or Superman Returns Superman. ... I guess this is a total cop-out answer. Still, it has the virtue of at least being honest and for me. Just seeing this seminal comic book being developed for live-action, that in and of itself is a geek-out moment for me of monumental proportions. To the point where even if we didn't have all of these cameos and easter eggs and other characters, I still would have been geeking out. ... Because when I was sixteen and "Crisis on Infinite Earths" came out, it never occurred to me that it could be put to film. And the idea that it was, albeit on a broadcast schedule and a broadcast budget, was still the biggest moment for me. DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW Exclusive: Executive Producer Marc Guggenheim On The Show's Formula LiteraryJoe | 8/1/2020https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/legends_of_tomorrow/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-exclusive-executive-producer-marc-guggenheim-on-the-shows-formula-a177224#gs.bsteka Quote Literary Joe: Legends of Tomorrow leans into what makes it crazy, and I think that's one of the things that lead to its success. I'm curious if the formula for Legends is any different than the rest of the shows in the shared universe? Marc Guggenheim: I would say it has evolved to the point where it probably has the most unique elements. It's funny; I don't really feel like each show has a formula, necessarily. I think that each show has contributed to the ones that have come before it, especially in the early days. I'll give you an example. Arrow's strengths and weaknesses informed the thinking when Flash was being built. Because legends is the only ensemble superhero team of the various Arrow shows, its always going to have its own thing. There's just Supergirl. We may call it "Team Arrow" or "Team Flash," but at the end of the day, those teams are centered around one singular character. Legends is unique amongst those various shows so far, and it was always a different kind of franchise. It was a team franchise, as opposed to a single lead franchise. Does that make sense? * * *Literary Joe: Of course. And I think the best thing about it being a team franchise is that you can bring in anybody from any other series. I was curious if there has been anybody you've tried adding to the Legends team that didn't end up making the cut? Marc Guggenheim: Hmm. You know, I think over the years, we had various conversations about who to bring in at any given moment in time. But they didn't make the cut, not necessarily because they didn't work creatively. I can't think of anybody we've added to the ensemble that didn't work creatively. But I can think of plenty of instances where we had talked about bringing in a character, and then deciding for any number of reasons not to do it. In some cases, that reason was that the actor was unavailable. (Laughs) But I can't think of a situation where it didn't creatively work. Arrowverse Exclusive: Creator Marc Guggenheim Details The Difference Between Live Action And Animation LiteraryJoe | 8/1/2020https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/arrowverse-exclusive-creator-marc-guggenheim-details-the-difference-between-live-action-and-animation-a177234#gs.bst23y Quote Literary Joe: Do you feel like you have more freedom when it comes to storytelling with an animated medium versus live-action? Marc Guggenheim: You know, the thing I always tell people is no matter what medium it is, there's always going to be someone who is telling you it can't be produced; that you can't afford to produce it. I will say that I think with animation, the problems tend to be more budgetary than logistical. Because, theoretically, in animation, whatever you can pay for, you can produce. Whereas, in live-action, your problems are both budgetary and logistical. I'll give you an example. You could have a huge action sequence set outside, and you're shooting it over the course of several days. Well, what happens if it rains on one day? Suddenly, one out of three shooting days doesn't fit in continuity with the other two. That's not a problem you run into with animation. Similarly, with live-action, you've got to be able to get all of your actors in a particular place at a particular time. That's not a concern with animation because you could have one actor doing voicework in Brazil and several other actors and people on the same team in New York. So, animation just allows you a little bit more flexibility in terms of not having to worry about logistics. But you still have to worry about money. * * *Literary Joe: That makes a lot of sense. I'm curious, how do you feel like your experience with DCTV has helped influence the creative fingerprint you've left on the Tales of Arcadia series? Marc Guggenheim: That's a good question! I think, because of my involvement with the Arrowverse, even though I haven't always been involved with every single show, I basically developed my personal philosophy for how to build out a universe, but also how to launch a spin-off series. I'm a very big believer that a spin-off should stand on its own feet. It should have its own identity as a show. The Arrowverse shows really have always been at their best when each show leans into what makes it different from the other four to five to six, depending on how many there are on the air at the time. And I think that has informed my thinking on the Tales of Arcadia Trilogy. Edited August 2, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo August 4, 2020 Share August 4, 2020 (edited) How Arrow Ruined Mia Smoak's Backstory After Crisis On Infinite Earths BY MATT MORRISON AUGUST 3, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-mia-smoak-crisis-infinite-earths-backstory-change-worse/ Quote Crisis on Infinite Earths radically changed Mia Smoak's background from Arrow, making her origins in the Green Arrow and the Canaries pilot nonsensical. While it's fair to say Mia would not have been the same hardened warrior she was in the original Star City 2040, it beggars belief that she was never given any combat training at all in the new timeline, as the penultimate episode of Arrow season 8 claimed. * * * While it seems likely Oliver Queen would have wanted to spare his daughter of the need to become a vigilante like him, it seems just as likely that his former allies would want to see Mia trained to handle herself in a fight. As such, it's unbelievable Mia Queen would grow up without receiving some basic self-defense classes and archery training, even if she didn't get the full-fledged League of Assassins training she received in the original timeline. Even if there was no Ninth Circle to worry about, Green Arrow still had many enemies and Felicity Smoak was notoriously paranoid. It seems horribly out of character for Felicity not to plan for the worst and seek to have her daughter taught now how to fight, as she did in the original timeline. Mia's growing up without any combat training also seems odd considering how many ready and willing teachers she would have had in the post-Crisis Earth-Prime; most of them strong-willed women, who believe in the value of a woman knowing the art of war, who would insist upon making sure that the daughter of Oliver Queen be taught how to take care of herself. In addition to Nyssa Al Ghul (who regarded Felicity as a sister), Mia could have gotten League of Assassins training from her aunt Thea Queen or family friend, Sara Lance. Her other aunt, Emiko Queen, would also probably have taken a hand in her training, passing on her knowledge from her time with the Ninth Circle. This gap in her education seems even stranger considering the Green Arrow and the Canaries pilot and the Arrow series finale made it clear that Sara Lance had been keeping an eye on Oliver 's children in the future and was responsible for bringing her sister's doppelganger forward in time to restore Mia's memories. Edited August 4, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
RS3 August 6, 2020 Share August 6, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 2:57 PM, tv echo said: most of them strong-willed women, who believe in the value of a woman knowing the art of war, who would insist upon making sure that the daughter of Oliver Queen be taught how to take care of herself Hehe this tells me everything I need to know about this guy's definition of a Strong Woman. Jokes aside, I thought the whole point of earth prime's reset was that there was no crime. Plus there's a difference between learning basic self defense moves, which we don't know that Mia didn't know, and getting extensive archery training and combat training. 1 Link to comment
Featherhat August 6, 2020 Share August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, RS3 said: Hehe this tells me everything I need to know about this guy's definition of a Strong Woman. Jokes aside, I thought the whole point of earth prime's reset was that there was no crime. Plus there's a difference between learning basic self defense moves, which we don't know that Mia didn't know, and getting extensive archery training and combat training. Yes the point of the new timeline was to show everything was 100% puppies and unicorns and rainbows after Oliver's sacrifice to contrast with the awfulness of the first timeline. They wanted this Mia to be shiny and new to contrast with pre Crisis Mia and so Laurel could yell hypocritically at her. They also knew she'd be getting her memories back within 20 minutes anyway so they didn't have to give her expert training this timeline and could so the socialite by day, vigilante by night contrast they abandoned with Oliver. We also not know what they had planned in the way of revealing her strengths and weaknesses if it had gone to series. It just seems like an exercise to bash Felicity for not "letting" the 500 "bad asses" around Mia "train her in the art of war" like that's actually a good thing for a 5 year old. Pre Crisis Felicity made sure Mia was trained by the best from the minute she was able to walk, because she had to. The pilot also showed Mia turning down the opportunity to work at Smoak Tech and seemingly disinterested in the nitty gritty of tech, which no one can claim Felicity wouldn't try to encourage her daughter to at least know, so Mia is not in favour of either legacy her parents left her at the start. Which was the point because it's an origin story and she's a combination of Oliver and Thea pre island/s1 but less of an asshole. Link to comment
RS3 August 6, 2020 Share August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Featherhat said: It just seems like an exercise to bash Felicity for not "letting" the 500 "bad asses" around Mia "train her in the art of war" like that's actually a good thing for a 5 year old. Pre Crisis Felicity made sure Mia was trained by the best from the minute she was able to walk, because she had to. Yup. A lot of people forget how much Oliver hated the green arrow life and wanted it to end. It was taxing physically but mostly psychologically. The writers made him express so many times how much he wanted grab his family wanted to get away from it. Considering everything he's been through because of it, how could the audience not agree with him? It made total sense that he wanted his wife and children away from that life. Superheroes are meant to be the one in a million but if you don't find something that makes them relatable, like the love of family, then all you have is a robot soldier. A part of the audience *coughs*comicsfans *coughs* lose sight of character motivations just so they can enjoy "badass" superheroes/fighters. They didn't like it when he retired in season 3 even though he said that he needed to find himself as a person. They didn't like it when Felicity was the one who wanted to come back because they didn't understand why Oliver needed the break after ra's striped him of the one identity he let himself have. They didn't like it either when he said he wanted to give up the mantle during his trial and then he was thrown in prison for being GA. "While it seems likely Oliver Queen would have wanted to spare his daughter of the need to become a vigilante like him, it seems just as likely that his former allies would want to see Mia trained to handle herself in a fight." See this makes zero sense to me. He acknowledges one character motivation but puts it on equal ground with this theory that Mia would want to train just because. Like it makes sense that everyone would want the vigilante life. Um...no. No one would. No one had to sacrifice more than her father and according to Arrow writers, it doesn't even come with payoff. Link to comment
Trini August 9, 2020 Share August 9, 2020 Unless it's been moved to a different site, Arrow's info and photos have been removed from the CW PR website: https://cwtvpr.com/the-cw/ Link to comment
statsgirl August 9, 2020 Share August 9, 2020 Stating my bias first: I like Matt Morrison. I thought that he was one of the few male reviewers who was both a fan and looked at the show realistically with it's positives and problems. I thought his Starman blog should have got more attention because it was one of the How I read the article, it's as a condemnation not of Felicity but of the writers who ruined a great origin story for Mia to fit it into their re-write of what happens after Crisis. It's certainly not the first time that Arrow has been screwed by the writing for the Arrowverse. Quote While it seems likely Oliver Queen would have wanted to spare his daughter of the need to become a vigilante like him, it seems just as likely that his former allies would want to see Mia trained to handle herself in a fight. As such, it's unbelievable Mia Queen would grow up without receiving some basic self-defense classes and archery training, even if she didn't get the full-fledged League of Assassins training she received in the original timeline. Even if there was no Ninth Circle to worry about, Green Arrow still had many enemies and Felicity Smoak was notoriously paranoid. It seems horribly out of character for Felicity not to plan for the worst and seek to have her daughter taught now how to fight, as she did in the original timeline. Felicity gets written out of character once again for a Guggenheim "gotcha". If there is still a League in this sunshine and unicorns world, and we are to presume that there is because both Nyssa and Talia attended the funeral, there is no way that I can see Nyssa not offering to train Mia out of respect for Oliver and her relationship with Felicity and Oliver. She's that paranoid careful. Nor can I see Felicity turning down the offer; she would have wanted Mia to have that connection to of her father even if she can't have her father. Hell, even if there is no Ninth Circle there are going to be muggers wanting to steal from someone as rich as Mia. An in-character Felicity would want her to be able to defend herself as an independent woman. It's also stupid because Mia is not going to suddenly become a badass fighter and archer with sudden knowledge of her alternative self if she's had no physical training in how to fight or shoot. That kind of muscle memory takes a long time to develop. 2 Link to comment
tv echo August 10, 2020 Share August 10, 2020 (edited) Wizards EP Marc Guggenheim on Shared Universes & Relatable Trolls BY CYNTHIA VINNEY AUGUST 9, 2020https://www.cbr.com/wizards-tales-of-arcadias-marc-guggenheim-interview/ Quote As you mentioned, this isn't the only shared universe you've helped steer. You’ve also been very involved in the Arrowverse, which is also a hugely expansive world with many different characters. Were there different challenges creating the world of the Arrowverse versus Tales of Arcadia? [Marc Guggenheim:] They both sort of are governed by the same philosophy, which is that you walk before you can run, that you sort of build out the universe brick by brick and concept by concept. And there were certain aspects of the Arrowverse experience that informed my thinking on the Tales of Arcadia trilogy. For example, when we did 3Below, I was very insistent that 3Below feel like its own show. It needed to -- even though it obviously connected up with Trollhunters and shares some characters with Trollhunters -- it was very important to me that it have its own identity, that it is something that stood on its own, that you didn't need to have seen the series of Trollhunters seasons in order to understand 3Below. It had to be something that a fresh audience could come to. And that was really born out of watching how the Arrowverse grew and seeing, quite frankly, what was done right and in some cases what was done wrong, But the Arrowverse definitely informs the Arcadia trilogy, in terms of, at least, my thinking on it. Edited August 10, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo August 12, 2020 Share August 12, 2020 You can also listen to this podcast here:https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/watchover-with-jen-and-calli/e/76853549 Link to comment
tv echo August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 (edited) Why Some Arrow Fans Hated Felicity BY MATT MORRISON AUGUST 13, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-felicity-backlash-hate-reason-explained/ Quote Despite becoming one of the breakout characters of Arrow, many fans hated Felicity Smoak. The vast majority of these were comic readers who objected to Green Arrow having any love interest but Black Canary and fans of actress Katie Cassidy who felt that Felicity's actress was slowly stealing Cassidy's intended role as Oliver Queen's soulmate. Felicity Smoak's character came about through a series of happy accidents during the filming of Arrow season 1. One early script required a tech-savvy character to help Oliver Queen with some analysis he couldn't do on his own. After running through a number of minor comic characters whose names might be evoked as an Easter egg, it was decided the character would be named Felicity Smoak, in honor of a computer company executive who had a vendetta against Firestorm. The relatively unknown Emily Bett Rickards was cast as Felicity, in what was intended to be a one-off performance. However, positive response from early screenings and Warner Bros. executive Peter Roth led to several early scripts being reworked to bring Felicity back as a recurring character. This set up a running gag in the first half of Arrow season 1 where Oliver kept returning to Felicity with a series of increasingly unlikely excuses for why he needed her help. When fan feedback for Felicity Smoak proved largely positive as well, Arrow's producers realized their only options for moving forward with the character required letting her in on Oliver Queen's secret identity. By the end of the first season, Felicity had become the third member of the power trio behind the original Team Arrow and Emily Bett Rickards was elevated to the status of series regular starting with Arrow season 2. It was around this time, as the show began playing up Felicity's obvious crush on Oliver Queen, that some of the audience began to turn upon the character, even as other fans began pushing for Oliver and Felicity to become a couple. * * * There were several small groups composing the larger backlash against Felicity Smoak. Some of them were comic readers, who felt that Green Arrow's one true love was Black Canary and the show shouldn't entertain Oliver Queen winding up with anyone else. Others were fans of actress Katie Cassidy, who felt that Rickards was usurping the position of Arrow's leading lady. This particular sect of the fandom grew increasingly incensed, as more fans and critics began to comment on the chemistry between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards and how they made a more convincing couple than Amell and Cassidy, who had been cast in the show with the intention of her eventually becoming Black Canary and, presumably, rekindling her romance with Oliver Queen. Some fans turned against the character because they found the behavior of those fans who supported the Oliver and Felicity pairing (i.e. Olicity) annoying. There was also an air of Antisemitism in some of the attacks on Felicity, who was established early on as being Jewish and the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. Despite an active online presence, the anti-Felicity faction never really gained much ground with the fandom at large. This was largely because there were just as many Black Canary comics fans who were happy to keep her free from Green Arrow's influence as there were fans insisting that Arrow copy the Bronze Age comics in regard to their romance. Unfortunately, even in the wake of the show's conclusion, there are some who still can't let go of their hatred and are refusing to support the Green Arrow and the Canaries spinoff despite Katie Cassidy's involvement because the series is focused on Felicity Smoak's daughter. Edited August 14, 2020 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
Featherhat August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 45 minutes ago, tv echo said: There was also an air of Antisemitism in some of the attacks on Felicity, who was established early on as being Jewish and the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. I'm glad I didn't see much of this. The only time I saw it was around COEX when people hoped Oliver X would kill Felicity (esp with the foiler grave photo) because she was Jewish and the gross shipping of "OverArrow" as a way to try and annoy Olicity fans and those who were worried about the "dark mirror love story" was going to be portrayed - which was a completely reasonable worry. Was there much at other times? Link to comment
statsgirl August 15, 2020 Share August 15, 2020 That's a pretty fair analysis of the Felicity backlash. It covers all the points without judging any of the sides. On 8/14/2020 at 11:36 AM, tv echo said: This set up a running gag in the first half of Arrow season 1 where Oliver kept returning to Felicity with a series of increasingly unlikely excuses for why he needed her help. I like this idea. It explains the really bad excuses, which were such fun to see Diggle reacting to. On 8/14/2020 at 11:36 AM, tv echo said: there were just as many Black Canary comics fans who were happy to keep her free from Green Arrow's influence as there were fans insisting that Arrow copy the Bronze Age comics in regard to their romance. So other people thought that it would be a really dysfunctional relationship too? On 8/14/2020 at 11:36 AM, tv echo said: Unfortunately, even in the wake of the show's conclusion, there are some who still can't let go of their hatred and are refusing to support the Green Arrow and the Canaries spinoff despite Katie Cassidy's involvement because the series is focused on Felicity Smoak's daughter. I didn't know that. Classic cutting off your nose to spite your face. 1 Link to comment
tv echo August 19, 2020 Share August 19, 2020 (edited) Ranking the big bads of ‘Arrow’ Lynsey Aug. 18, 2020https://www.purefandom.com/2020/08/18/ranking-the-big-bads-of-arrow/ Quote #8 Ricardo Diaz ... To much of Arrow fans’ chagrin Ricardo Diaz maintained the longest run as a big bad. Through season 6 and 7 Diaz somehow continually foiled Oliver and company until he met his demise by burning alive in prison. The reason The Dragon earns the bottom spot on this list is because he doesn’t subsequently earn anything else in the story. We’re told he’s such a charismatic leader that he rose in the ranks from nothing, but we’re showed someone who’s actually not that scary, and quite frankly pathetic. The likes of which were definitely not worthy of big bad status and putting Oliver Queen in prison. It became increasingly unbelievable that Team Arrow couldn’t handle this guy in one fell swoop. Diaz could have worked as a one-off villian. But as a big bad? Let’s just say I enjoyed watching him finally go up in flames. * * *#7 Damien Darhk ... Season 4 of Arrow is often regarded as the shows worst season (if not one of), and that in large part has to do with its big bad. As audience members we can recognize that in the land of comics there’s many fantastical happenings going on elsewhere, but that doesn’t mean we wanted that to touch the veil of Star City. Nor should it have. Damien Darhk and his magic had no place on Arrow, and it was made worse by it’s cheesy delivery and lackluster motivation. Like why are you here Damien? Don’t you have better things to do? It was rather weird and discombobulating. I will give this to Darhk though, he did put the team in some tough spots, but unfortunately nothing made up for the tonal shift of having a magical big bad. * * *#1 Adrian Chase ... Oliver Queen technically never even beat Chase. He shot himself in the head, Robert Queen style which caused Lian Yu to blow up. It was truly full circle. But the reason Chase earns the top spot is because he pushed Oliver to confront his past, his decisions, his father, and his PTSD in a way no villain ever has. And he was so very unhinged in a way that was just terrifying. As Chase brought the back half of season 5 to a close he made me grateful to witness Oliver’s journey and be on this ride with our favorite arrow-wielding vigilante. #8 Ricardo Diaz #7 Damien Darhk #6 Cayden James #5 Emiko Queen #4 Ras Al Ghul #3 Malcolm Merlyn #2 Slade Wilson #1 Adrian Chase Edited August 19, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo August 19, 2020 Share August 19, 2020 (edited) Sure to be controversial... Dinah Drake Was Arrow's Only TRUE Black Canary BY NICHOLAS RAYMOND AUGUST 19, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-dinah-drake-real-black-canary/ Quote In the Arrowverse, there are four different heroines associated with the “Black Canary” moniker. The first character to call herself “The Canary” was Caity Lotz’s Sara Lance. She was the younger sister of Laurel Lance (Katie Cassidy), Oliver’s ex-girlfriend and a lawyer who worked in the district attorney’s office in Starling City. Though it was Laurel who shared the name of the Black Canary from the comics, it was Sara who fought crime under the name first. But when she died, Laurel formally became the new Black Canary. Her Earth-2 counterpart started off as a villain called Black Siren, but evolved into a new take on Black Canary by the end of Arrow season 7. The Lance family was full of characters tied to the DC Comics superhero, but none of them were the proper Black Canary from DC Comics. The only Arrowverse character who can claim that distinction is Dinah Drake, the woman who Oliver picked to take Laurel’s place following her death at the hands of Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) in season 4. Sarah and Black Siren were original Arrowverse characters, and Laurel was loosely inspired by Black Canary, whereas Dinah had all the right qualities belonging to the DC Comics hero. * * * Comparisons to DC Comics’ Black Canary were drawn when Team Arrow first met Dinah, even though at the time she was using the fake name, “Tina Boland”. First of all, her Canary Cry was an actual metahuman power, just like the situation with her comic book counterpart. Both Sara and Laurel had to use tech to unleash her trademark sonic attack. Plus, there’s the matter of her backstory; this character was a detective who began moonlighting as a vigilante after her partner was murdered. She was eager to dish out justice to criminal on the streets, not unlike the comic book hero, who became the Black Canary after her father was killed. It became crystal clear that the Arrowverse was finally giving fans the true Black Canary when her real name was revealed: Dinah Drake, which was the name of the Golden Age Black Canary. Modern versions of Black Canary have gone by the names Dinah Laurel Lance and Dinah Drake-Lance. One thing that’s consistent with all versions is that the name she goes by is “Dinah”. That’s Laurel’s first name in the Arrowverse, but no one ever called her that. The things that the Arrowverse did differently with Laurel's Black Canary was corrected in season 5 when it introduced Dinah. This proved to be a good move for the Arrowverse, as she became an important part of the team for the remainder of the series. Edited August 19, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
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