tv echo April 10, 2020 Share April 10, 2020 (edited) 10 Continuity Errors in Arrow BY WESLEY BELL APR 09, 2020https://screenrant.com/cw-arrow-continuity-errors/ Quote 10 Age Difference ... In the pilot, we learn that Oliver Queen was stranded on an island for 5 years after his ship went down, with many believing both him and his father, Robert Queen, were dead. Due to this, even though only one of them was, funerals were held for them both. When Oliver and his sister are by the tombstones in the 2nd episode of the 1st season, the birth year on Robert's tombstone reads 1958 which, at the time, would have made the character 54 had he still been alive. However, the news report from the pilot states Robert's birth year as 1948, which instead would have made the character 64. The simple changing of one number creates a 10 year age inconsistency for the character. Whether this was a conscious decision by the writers to de-age Robert or whether it was something that simply got overlooked by the series is unknown but it is likely the latter. * * *5 Diggle's Disappearance ... In the episode, "The Slabside Redemption", we see Oliver get released from prison following after he turned himself in at the end of the show's 6th season. When he got out of the Supermax, both Diggle and Felicity were waiting for him. During the final scene, Oliver and Felicity embrace leading to a touching moment between the husband and wife. However, when the camera pans out at this moment it reveals that Diggle is completely gone despite standing directly behind them, almost as if he wasn't there in the first place. * * *1 Face Paint ... In the episode "Three Ghosts" we find out Barry Allen left Oliver a new mask in order to help him better conceal his identity since, prior to this, he was only using the cover of his hood to hide his face. When Felicity puts the mask on Oliver for the first time is when we get the continuity error. Prior to the mask being put on, Oliver's face is bare and he isn't wearing any eye make-up but in the next shot when the mask is on, he suddenly is. 10 Age Difference 9 [Sara's] Hair Color 8 Speed Healing 7 Jumping Stabs Wounds 6 Suit Up 5 Diggle's Disappearance 4 Time Jump 3 Missing Driver 2 Passing The Bow 1 Face Paint Edited April 10, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 10, 2020 Share April 10, 2020 (edited) How Arrow's Original Plan Was Very Different (& Why It Changed) BY THOMAS BACON APR 09, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-show-original-plan-oliver-felicity-changes-reason/ Quote The original plans for Arrow were very different to what the show ended up with, but thankfully all that changed for the better. DC TV first began considering the idea of an Arrow TV series all the way back in 2006, but their plans fell through for what would have been a Smallville spinoff. * * *Arrow Was Supposed To Focus On Oliver, Laurel & Tommy ...Arrow was always going to be centered upon Oliver Queen, but originally he shared the spotlight with Laurel Lance and Tommy Merlin. The casting of Stephen Amell was an inspired choice, and the showrunners were delighted at his ability to portray two different versions of Oliver Queen; the haunted vigilante of the present, and the out-of-his-depth playboy of the flashbacks. What they hadn't realized, though, was just how good he looked with his shirt off. Berlanti first began to realize that when he was shown a video of Amell training, and initially thought he was watching a very ripped stunt double. The CW subsequently put a shirtless Amell at the center of their marketing, and a poster went viral, convincing the showrunners they had a star on their hands. This appears to have led to a significant course-correction for some of the supporting characters. As an example, Arrow always seems to have intended to introduce Helena Bertinelli, casting Jessica De Gouw for the role; however, they didn't plan to transform her into the Huntress quite so quickly. Still, Guggenheim and Berlanti's experience with Eli Stone had taught them not to hold anything back, and so they soon had De Gouw suit up as the Huntress. "Similarly, we had no intention of introducing Roy Harper in season 1," Guggenheim told EW. It's safe to assume they wrote in the romance between Roy and Oliver's sister Thea when they saw Colton Haynes and Willa Holland acting together. * * *Felicity Was Originally A One Line Character In Arrow ... A lot of Arrow's romance was unintentional, written in when the showrunners saw a strong performance and good chemistry. The most striking example is Emily Bett Rickards, who originally auditioned for just two scenes in Arrow season 1, episode 3. The showrunners were impressed with Rickards, and brought her back as a recurring character for the rest of season 1, before signing her up for another six seasons. It didn't take long for Rickards to essentially become Arrow's co-star, with fans cheering the "Olicity" romance. "I don’t know that show works if we don’t randomly find her," Amell told EW. "You can’t plan. They cast a girl in episode 3 that all of a sudden became the linchpin." * * *Even Arrow's Deathstroke Was Just An Easter Egg * * *Arrow's Original Plans Would've Made For A Worse Show ... Looking back, it's fascinating to see how flexible Arrow's showrunners were. The scripts were considered purely provisional until casting had been completed, and Berlanti and Guggenheim allowed the public response to Stephen Amell to drastically reshaped the series. Doing so implicitly encouraged Amell to act as a sort of "ambassador" to the Arrowverse, and it wasn't long before he was challenging scripts if he felt Oliver was out of character. Meanwhile, they also watched the cast closely, looking to see which actors stood out from the rest and what character dynamics worked well. It's impossible to imagine Arrow becoming the cult classic, much less launching the entire Arrowverse, without Emily Bett Rickards' Felicity. The most impressive course-correction of all, though, was Deathstroke. All superhero franchises indulge in Easter eggs, and they're a tricky thing to handle; even the most prestigious franchises, such as the MCU, have unwittingly turned Easter eggs into major plot holes. In the case of the Arrowverse, the writers and showrunners placed a Deathstroke mask in a position of prominence, and then reoriented their entire show around it. It's quite remarkable - and demonstrates just why Arrow would work. Edited April 10, 2020 by tv echo 1 2 Link to comment
tv echo April 11, 2020 Share April 11, 2020 (edited) Arrow: 5 Best Friendships (& 5 Worst) BY CORY MALDONADO APR 10, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-best-worst-friendships/ Quote 9 WORST: FELICITY AND BLACK SIREN ... The case could be made that Earth-2 Laurel Lance (Black Siren) has the worst friendships with everyone, but Felicity is unique in her way. Felicity appeared to constantly be open to a friendship with Laurel, but time and time again, Laurel appeared to be uninterested. The best parts of their relationship come towards the shows end as Felicity attempts to convince Black Siren that she is more than what her villainous actions are portraying. Unfortunately, that climactic aspect did not do enough to provide much interest in wanting more from whatever it is they appear to have. * * *5 WORST: OLIVER AND LAUREL (ALL OF THEM) ... If taking into consideration all of the Laurels of every Earth to appear on the show, then categorizing their relationship as one of the worst is at the very least appropriate. From the very start, Oliver committed an unforgivable sin by hooking up with Laurel’s sister (Sara), but it didn’t stop there. After Oliver returned from his five-year desertion, he was blamed for Sara’s death. Eventually, Laurel meets her fate, and Oliver could also be held responsible for this as she joined his crusade. Earth-2 Laurel does not appear to share the same inclination as Earth-1 Laurel to build a similar relationship with Oliver, let alone anyone else. * * *2 BEST: DIGGLE AND FELICITY ... Similar to Diggle and Oliver, this friendship flourished as time went on. They also shared a very specific daily task: to protect Oliver Queen from himself. The two endured similar tragedies and shared beliefs that they had to instill into Oliver’s crusade. Diggle and Felicity found each other confiding in one another more times than not because, for an extended period, it was them and Oliver. They cried together; they watched each other’s growth and ensured that growth was built character and not diminish. One of the more impressive feats for the two was that with all they endured, witnessed, and sacrificed from the start to the very end. 10 BEST: OLIVER AND DIGGLE 9 WORST: FELICITY AND BLACK SIREN 8 BEST: RENE AND QUENTIN 7 WORST: MIA AND CONNOR 6 BEST: OLIVER AND QUENTIN 5 WORST: OLIVER AND LAUREL (ALL OF THEM) 4 BEST: THEA AND ROY 3 WORST: RAY AND FELICITY 2 BEST: DIGGLE AND FELICITY 1 WORST: EVELYN AND TEAM ARROW Edited April 11, 2020 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo April 13, 2020 Share April 13, 2020 (edited) What's this obsession with the goatee? I mean, Jason Momoa's Aquaman looks nothing like the comics Aquaman... Arrow: 5 Things The Show Did Right (& 5 Things It Got Wrong) BY DEREK FARACI APR 12, 2020https://www.cbr.com/arrow-things-it-got-right-vs-wrong-comparison/ Quote 10 Right: Showed The Path Of A Vigilante Becoming A Hero ... Over the eight years and 170 episodes that make up Arrow, the show's crew, most notably star Stephen Amell, grew the character of Green Arrow from a murdering vigilante to a true hero. The series used Ollie's costumes and names to illustrate this to viewers. First, he was "The Hood", and then he was just "Arrow". All of that fit because Ollie hadn't really become a hero yet, but when he did, he became the Green Arrow. Ollie's search for justice started with a list from his father, but as time went on and he learned more about himself and the world he lived in, Green Arrow came to see that his original methods would not work if he wanted to make the world a better place. He gave up many of his past ways and became something greater. 10 Right: Showed The Path Of A Vigilante Becoming A Hero 9 Wrong: Turned Green Arrow Into Batman 8 Right: Ra's Al Ghul 7 Wrong: Kept On Killing 6 Right: White Canary And The Atom 5 Wrong: The Not So Liberal Arrow 4 Right: Created A Connected Live-Action DC Universe 3 Wrong: No Goatee! 2 Right: Stayed Grounded In A Crazy World 1 Wrong: Where Are The Vehicles? Edited April 13, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
statsgirl April 14, 2020 Share April 14, 2020 11 hours ago, tv echo said: What's this obsession with the goatee? It's not even a goatee, it's a Van Dyke. I'd say Ra's al Ghul was a worse mistake. Link to comment
tv echo April 16, 2020 Share April 16, 2020 (edited) Shocking admission... Arrowverse: 5 Unhealthy Relationships (& 5 That Were Surprisingly Wholesome) BY ANDY BEHBAKHT APR 15, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrowverse-unhealthy-vs-wholesome-relationships/ Quote 2 UNHEALTHY: Oliver Queen & Laurel Lance ... In the comics, Green Arrow and Black Canary are one of DC's most iconic power couples. But in the case of Arrow, things didn't go that way as Oliver ended up with Felicity Smoak instead. However, the biggest obstacle Laurel and Oliver's relationship had was the fact that Oliver had commitment issues. While their dynamic healed in later seasons before Laurel's death, their relationship was the unhealthiest relationship in the entire franchise. 10 UNHEALTHY: Kendra Saunders & Carter Hall 9 SURPRISINGLY WHOLESOME: Wally West & Jesse Wells 8 UNHEALTHY: Kara Zor-El & Mon-El 7 SURPRISINGLY WHOLESOME: Roy Harper & Thea Queen 6 UNHEALTHY: Oliver Queen & Sara Lance 5 SURPRISINGLY WHOLESOME: Barry Allen & Kara Zor-El 4 UNHEALTHY: Barry Allen & Patty Spivot 3 SURPRISINGLY WHOLESOME: Oliver Queen & John Diggle 2 UNHEALTHY: Oliver Queen & Laurel Lance 1 SURPRISINGLY WHOLESOME: Oliver Queen & Barry Allen Edited April 17, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
Chaser April 16, 2020 Share April 16, 2020 I don’t think I would put Oliver and Sara under ‘unhealthy’. Yes, they started that way but they grew into one of the healthiest dynamics. Just two old friends who respect and love each other. I would add under the ‘Unhealthy’ category: Laurel/Dinah and Lance/E2 Laurel. 6 Link to comment
lemotomato April 16, 2020 Share April 16, 2020 Green Arrow and Black Canary were unhealthy in the comics too. Unless Andy thinks that cheating and BC kicking GA in the crotch is what made them "iconic". 1 2 Link to comment
tv echo April 17, 2020 Share April 17, 2020 (edited) Belated review of series finale... Arrow: 8.10 Fadeout by Baz Greenland April 17, 2020https://www.thedigitalfix.com/television/episode-review/arrow-8-10-fadeout/ Quote In fact, the biggest success of Fadeout is not the documentary-style of 'The Emerald Archer' or the somewhat random action side-plot to rescue a kidnapped William, but the connections between these characters one last time. For Thea and Roy, there is finally some happiness as she accepts his proposal and he moves past the off-screen trauma that was alluded to in season seven. One of my favourite heroes of season five - Joe Drincol's Rory Regan / Ragman gets a cool action moment and a shared connection with Oliver's spiritual successor with Rene (Rick Gonzalez continuing to deliver more mature role). Sara picking up Mia following the events of last week, allows her connection with Dinah to grow further, ahead of of the spin-off and a great moment where she connects with her mother. * * *It goes without saying that having Felicity back for the finale was an absolute must and she has been the one thing missing from the final run of episodes. Her sense of pride at Mia the hero or her long-standing friendship with John offer plenty of emotional weighting to the finale and Emily Bett Rickards certainly remains, alongside David Ramsey, one the break-out and most-loved members of the Arrow family. * * * William's kidnapping didn't make a lot of sense and was really there just to see out heroes in action one last time; Arrow of course, is known for its action and epic fight sequences - as glimpsed in the gloriously OTT killing spree that Oliver went on in the flashback to season one. But it was there to show just how solid a foundation it had made to the DC superhero universe; whole The Flash and Supergirl will continue to carry the torch, the finale also hinted at more adventures to come - was the really a Green Lantern tease for John Diggle in the episode's closing moments? I really hope so. * * *Fadeout then, caps off a momentous eight years of Arrow, showing us just how Oliver Queen had come and celebrating the Arrowverse he established. It's great to see that this universe will continue with at least two further spin-offs in active development. But for all its darkness and grit and action, the finale was about those character moments, none more so than Felicity's bittersweet reunion with Oliver in the Afterlife. Fadeout delivered a satisfying finale, closing the chapter on one of the most significant TV superhero shows of all time. Edited April 17, 2020 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo April 20, 2020 Share April 20, 2020 (edited) A Hero In Arrow 20 April 2020https://m-net.dstv.com/news/a-hero-in-arrow Quote Arrow is back and this time he means business. We totally love our arrow-shooting hero, who has some badass moves. We're sure avid Arrow fans are excited to see what the eight and final seasons brings (we know, we can't believe it's almost over 😢) Before Oliver Queen shoots his arrows onto M-Net City screens, let's take a look at some cool facts that you may have not known about the show. In the comics, the real name of Starling City is Star City. The name Star City is used in later seasons! The “Skyline” in the show is actually footage from various cities including Frankfurt, Germany, Center City Philadelphia, PA, Back Bay Boston, MA, Tokyo, Japan, and Singapore. Pretty cool hey! Arrow always includes awesome easter eggs in the titles of its episodes. In almost every episode, one of the characters says the title at some point. See if you catch them😉 Felicity Smoak was supposed to be a once-off character, but the directors love her so much, so she stayed. We totally see why they did, she rocks! There is a professional archery technician on set to train the actors. Now we wanna learn to shoot too. What facts do you know about the show? Share them with us on @MNetCity (Twitter). Your fearless green hero braces the screens on 2 May at 20:50 on M-Net City. Edited April 20, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 20, 2020 Share April 20, 2020 (edited) What - not (E2) Laurel? I'm shocked... Arrowverse: 10 Characters We Want To See Closer To The Comics After Crisis On Infinite Earths BY GEORGE CHRYSOSTOMOU APR 19, 2020https://www.cbr.com/arrowverse-characters-fans-wish-closer-comics/ Quote Now that the Earth has been rebooted and the multiverse changed, there's an opportunity to change the characters as well. Here's 10 characters we think should be shifted towards their comic book counterparts. * * *10/10 Black Canary ... There's been four different iterations of the Black Canary in the Arrowverse. From the original Sara, to Laurel taking over, to Dinah becoming the new Canary before finally Black Siren took the role. Now that Dinah has been thrown into the future it would be great to see her take up many of the traits of the comics version of the character. It seems that the iconic clock tower, her singing voice and ownership of a bar are steps towards this. Edited April 20, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 20, 2020 Share April 20, 2020 (edited) This is interesting - Anna Van Hooft's IMDb page does indeed list her as playing "Jennifer Bates" in Supergirl 515 (Mar. 15, 2020) and as playing "Jenn" in Arrow 118 (Mar. 27, 2013)... Supergirl Brought Back A Character From Arrow Season 1 BY JOHN ATKINSON APR 19, 2020https://screenrant.com/supergirl-character-arrow-season-1-anna-van-hooft-jenn/ Quote Arrow season 1 largely explored Oliver's initial return to Star City and first steps into vigilantism. Simultaneously, flashbacks were utilized to depict the first year of his exile on the island of Lian Yu. Oliver wasn't the only one who seemingly died when his family's yacht sank, however. It was established that he was having illicit liaisons with Sara Lance, the sister of his then-girlfriend Laurel. Though Sara didn't even make it to the life-raft, Oliver's survival sparked an element of hope within the Lance family — most notably parents Quentin and Dinah. Their fixation on the idea that Sara might be alive was further fuelled by a photo of a similar-looking woman on neighboring islands in the area. In Arrow season 1, episode 18, "Salvation," Laurel tracked down the woman. Laurel introduced her to her parents as Jenn, revealing that she was nothing more than someone with a striking resemblance on a six-month sabbatical. Played by Anna Van Hooft, the character of Jenn only appeared in that one scene and was never mentioned again. Like Sara Lance herself, however, the character may have just resurfaced. In Supergirl season 5, episode 15, "Reality Bytes," Van Hooft played a more prominent role. Ordinarily, that would mean little. Given the expansive nature of the Arrowverse — and how many years the shows have been on air — it's to be expected that an actor or actress would pop up more than once in different minor roles. What makes Van Hooft's appearance on Supergirl different and more significant, though, is the fact that her latest character was named Jennifer — of which Jenn is obviously short for. * * * The timeline of the character also tracks between the two shows. In Arrow, she made reference to needing to call her fiance. In Supergirl, meanwhile, Jennifer is not only married but has been married long enough for the relationship to sour. The result of that decline is what spurred on much of the action — with her husband, Richard, pursuing vengeance against the man with whom she'd been having a virtual affair. Given that the episodes are just short of a decade apart, that's more than enough time for such developments to have occurred. Though the Arrowverse has had its share of continuity errors, the choice in character name and these details imply that it's more than mere coincidence. Edited April 20, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 20, 2020 Share April 20, 2020 (edited) Regarding Felicity, I don't know if I like this idea because Felicity would just have this underlying sadness in every appearance (like she did in Arrow's flashforward scenes). As for the Diggle comment below, my response is: And yet Arrow was never criticized for becoming the Diggle & Friends show. Still, I would love to see Felicity and Diggle again... DC TV: 10 Arrow Characters That Should Appear On The Other Arrowverse Shows, Following Arrow's Ending BY ANDY BEHBAKHT APR 19, 2020https://screenrant.com/dc-tv-arrow-characters-other-arroverse-shows/ Quote 6/10 Felicity Smoak ... While Oliver is together with Felicity in the Afterlife, that’s the 2040 version of his wife. In the present, Felicity is still alive and raising baby Mia. The best show that Felicity really fitted in with the most was whenever she visited Team Flash in Central City. Her friendship with Barry in the early seasons made those mini-crossovers a lot of fun. As her relationships with the other characters have also grown, it would be refreshing to have Felicity return for a few episodes down the line. With Oliver no longer in the picture (from her timeline), perhaps working with the heroes of STAR Labs could benefit Felicity as she begins to live a life without her husband. * * *1/10 Diggle ...While the show was called Arrow, the series was as much of John Diggle’s story as it was Oliver’s. Diggle, who was an original character for the show, became an instrumental player for the entire 8-year run. Imagining this franchise without him seems impossible at this point. Given his ending that pretty much hinted at his potential adventures as a Green Lantern, any of the 6 shows would be a perfect new home for him. Realistically speaking, Black Lightning or Superman & Lois is probably where he would be best serviced. With there being talks about Diggle’s potential future, it will hopefully not be long until viewers find out where Diggle is going next. 10 Moira Queen 9 Tommy Merlyn 8 Quentin Lance 7 Emiko Queen 6 Felicity Smoak 5 Deathstroke 4 Speedy 3 Arsenal 2 Wild Dog 1 Diggle Edited April 20, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 21, 2020 Share April 21, 2020 (edited) Code 8 Proves Stephen Amell Would Have Been the Perfect DCEU Green Arrow BY RENALDO MATADEEN APR 20, 2020https://www.cbr.com/code-8-stephen-amell-perfect-dceu-green-arrow/ Quote However, while Stephen Amell really did the character justice on the CW's Arrow, kickstarting the Arrowverse and the network's superhero line, after seeing his performance in Code 8, it's clear the actor would have made the perfect Oliver Queen on the big screen. * * * Well, Amell did Ollie justice in Arrow, diving headfirst into an action-filled world in Star City. Even after other heroes like the Flash, Supergirl, etc. came in to make the Arrowverse more escapist and comic book-like, Ollie still proved to be the essential leader of the first unofficial incarnation of the CW's Justice League. A lot of the Arrowverse's success depends on him, but still, there's a sense Amell never really got to fully cut loose on say. Well, Code 8 allows him to really be a rogue, and it's a perfect glimpse into how he could have brought Green Arrow to the DCEU. * * * In Code 8, he plays Garrett, a telekinetic in a war between mutants and humans oppressing them. Sure, he's a criminal, but he's a victim of circumstance, as society limits his job opportunities. It reaches the point where mankind wants to register and possibly put these "Powers" in internment camps. Amell's Garrett basically spends his life assembling fellow mutants as part of a resistance. Under his tough exterior, he simply wants to protect his kind. In the process, he doesn't take guff from cops or criminals, and the way he mentors young mutants like Connor (Robbie Amell) feels like Ollie in dystopian DC stories involving the likes of Speedy. Garrett knows society has robots hunting them called Guardians, but no matter what, he'll lead his ragtag band to overcome. We're not justifying his activities, but there is a sense of altruism, as warped as it is, as he vows to continue fighting bigotry. * * * The way Amell's Garrett secrets around Lincoln City with underground allies, not to mention the epic action scenes, profanity and unabashed punishment he doles out, let's just say it's a violently perfect snapshot of what he could do with Green Arrow if Warner Bros. gave him a film, R-rated or not. He comes off as a lost hero with the weight of the world on his shoulders, with no time for jokes or clowning around. In short, his essence would have been perfect for Birds of Prey as he cuts loose in ways he never could on network TV. It reminds us that while his depiction (as well as Smallville's Justin Hartley) were all well and fine, they felt capped by the CW. But in Code 8, Amell is that freedom fighter the DCEU needs, coming off like an angry Ollie who's trying to save Lincoln City, only without a bow and arrow. Edited April 21, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 22, 2020 Share April 22, 2020 (edited) I quoted very little because this article contains spoilers for the Flash episode that just aired last night... Is The Flash Trying To Become More Like Arrow In Season 6? LAURA HURLEY APR. 21. 2020https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2494891/is-the-flash-trying-to-become-more-like-arrow-in-season-6 Quote Barry and Team Flash are dealing with challenges that Oliver and Team Arrow over on Arrow were more than a little familiar with. In fact, I was feeling the Flash/Arrow parallels so strongly in "So Long and Goodnight" that I half expected Cisco to suggest Ralph call Felicity when Ralph started rattling off reasons why he needed a hacker. Arrow certainly wasn't perfect, but The Flash showing some Arrow shades at this point isn't a bad thing. After all, The Flash is getting a little long in the tooth as it heads toward the end of its shortened sixth season and into its seventh. Edited April 22, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 24, 2020 Share April 24, 2020 (edited) Two Supergirl characters have been compared to Felicity previously - Kara has been compared to Felicity in terms of looks and personality, while Winn has been compared to Felicity in terms of role or function on the team... Supergirl: 5 Characters Who Have Grown A Lot (& 5 Who Haven't) BY BEN PETTITT APR 23, 2020https://screenrant.com/supergirl-character-growth-comparison/ Quote 5/10 Hasn't Grown - Winn Schott * * * This all sounds pretty remarkable, but the truth is, Winn never actually underwent any substantial development. At the beginning of the series, he was the technical guy, who had a crush on Supergirl. He never really moved past that, ending up as the poor man Felicity Smoak. Edited April 24, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 24, 2020 Share April 24, 2020 (edited) I would say that this is a lesson in what happens when you don't do a chemistry read for the two actors auditioning to play the main romantic couple for your show - also, I still think that Sara was the best Black Canary (though not right for Oliver, imo)... Arrow Failed Laurel Lance, But Not Black Canary BY IAN CARDONA APR 23, 2020https://www.cbr.com/arrow-failed-laurel-lance-not-black-canary/ Quote Unfortunately, things didn't exactly go that way. Instead, Arrow twisted things as it evolved. The character of Laurel Lance ended up becoming a casualty of these changes. But the Black Canary, several of them in fact, would still rise in the Arrowverse. Now, as we look back at the show's legacy, it's clear Arrow ultimately failed Katie Cassidy's Laurel Lance -- but did right by the Black Canary. * * * When we first met Laurel Lance in the series' pilot, she was a lawyer fighting for the little guy. Right from the start, it was clear that she had a heroic heart, and her self-defense fighting skills let us know that she would one day take things to the next level and suit up as the Black Canary to Oliver Queen's Green Arrow. It was a transformation comic-book fans expected because, in the source material, Green Arrow and Black Canary are not only partners, but one of the DC Universe's most iconic power couples. However, over the course of several seasons, Arrow went through numerous changes: its universe got bigger, super-powered heroes and villains were introduced and Oliver found a different love interest in Felicity Smoak. And, as the focus and the scope of the series changed, so too did the character of Laurel Lance. * * * After going through a rough patch in Season 2, Laurel took a few leaps forward as she started to train with Ted Grand/Wildcat in Season 3 and finally learned enough combat skills to become the Black Canary. And it worked... but only for a short amount of time. Laurel's turn as the heroic vigilante was different than others on the show: since she was new to crime-fighting and still lacked training, she wasn't particularly good at it, as opposed to the other members of Team Arrow who were at the height of their abilities more or less at all times. It was an interesting plight for Laurel and would have made for an interesting arc for the character... if she wasn't killed due to her lack of experience. * * * It's been a bumpy road for Laurel Lance -- one filled with ups, downs and sharp turns. Considering all that the character has been through, it seems apparent that Arrow simply didn't know what to do with her. On one hand, the show's writers wanted to give comic-book fans the Black Canary from the source material, but too many previous decisions made that transformation nearly impossible. The character's death only complicated matters further, and it shows that perhaps the series didn't treat Laurel Lance with the care and respect the comic-book character deserved. * * * However, the series did manage to do right by Black Canary -- if not with Laurel under the domino mask, then with other characters. In fact, in Season 2 of the series, Arrow introduced its first Black Canary in the form of Sara Lance. Sara was trained by the League of Assassins for years, meaning that she had a good amount of time, in-story, to become someone close to the Black Canary fans know from the comics. The only thing she was missing, was the character's signature Canary cry. And Sara Lance was just the first in a long line of Canaries. In fact, after Laurel Lance suited up as her sister's successor, Dinah Drake (the comics' first Black Canary) joined the series in Season 5 as a Canary who not only had the fighting skills, but also the super-powered cry, gained after the explosion of S.T.A.R. Labs' particle accelerator in Star City. Dinah was as close as Arrow could get to a comics-accurate Black Canary. But she wouldn't even be the last. Laurel's Earth-2 doppelganger would also eventually suit-up as a superhero, keeping Star City safe alongside an alternate version of the Emerald Archer. Plus, she would even fight alongside Oliver Queen in the series' final season. As Season 8 of Arrow came to a close, the series had two active Black Canaries -- and yet, neither of them were the character who was originally supposed to become the vigilante back in Season 1. Unfortunately, we never got to see the real Laurel Lance get her proper due as the Black Canary. But, at least, Arrow made up for it by offering fans multiple versions of the superhero -- each cooler than the last. Edited April 24, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 24, 2020 Share April 24, 2020 (edited) Arrow's Katie Cassidy Candidly Reflects on Final Season's Highs and Lows, Teases Laurel Secrets to Be Revealed By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 24 2020https://tvline.com/2020/04/24/arrow-final-season-8-katie-cassidy-interview/ Quote With Arrow: The Eighth and Final Season set to arrive on DVD and Blu-ray on Tuesday, April 28, TVLine seized the opportunity to catch up with the original cast member and revisit Season 8’s highs and lows, including her directorial debut and loads of deja vu. ... TVLINE | Ever since Black Siren started spending time in our Star City, the fans were clamoring for some sort of redemption arc. What was important to you about the two-season journey that followed for the character? Just that her story, in terms of her character, be told and looked at in a way as though it were a separate identity, starting as her doppelgänger. Playing Black Siren, I wanted her to get a sense of depth. I wanted it to feel like she lived a different life, and that actually came down to the writers and myself doing the character backstory, trying to make her as complex and whole as possible. I wanted to have a chance to tell her story of where she came from — and I think we’re still exploring that. That’s what’s cool about this potential spinoff, Green Arrow and the Canaries; we still don’t know the story of how Black Siren, on Earth-Two as her redeemed self, learned what it’s like to be a hero. What has she gone through as we pick up with this pilot in 2040? There is still a lot of story to be told. * * *TVLINE | In the Season 8 premiere, as you basically recreated a lot of scenes and dialogue from the pilot, were you almost overwhelmed with a feeling of déjà vu from eight years ago? I wouldn’t say “overwhelmed,” but it was nostalgic. And of course it was great to see Colin [Donnell] and have everybody there, to see all of our old sets…. All of that was all very real for me, like it was a “goodbye scene” in a way or “until we meet again” in a way. I was just genuinely crying because it was like, OK, this is the end of this [chapter] and goodbye for now, but again, with this spinoff I’m pretty positive. I feel really good about it, and I think we shall continue. TVLINE | For Episode 802, we gave you a Performer of the Week honorable mention, because Laurel went to such an emotional place dealing with the loss of her own Earth. What was it like getting where you needed to go with your performance? Oh my God. Thank you for bringing this up. And I say this because maybe I haven’t shared this yet….. But OK, as you know, I directed 803. First time ever. So to be honest with you, I was in prep for the episode I was directing while shooting 802, and in 801 I was shadowing directors… and at the beginning of Season 8 I had just moved from a house to a condo over the hiatus…. So I basically didn’t stop from Season 7 to Season 8 and my gosh, it was crazy. I didn’t stop from the beginning of July until the end of October. I have to say, it was actually the universe working for me in a way, because I was so exhausted, but I am so grateful to have the opportunity to direct and I’m so grateful that they wrote this episode, 802, for me. They wrote such an incredible story for me and I love acting and performing, so I was grateful for that. I was very pleased with Episode 802, and I was also really pleased with my episode I directed. * * *TVLINE | And the episode you directed was no slouch. You had a lot to get done, bringing back Thea and Talia, location work, new sets…. What was the biggest challenge you were presented with? To be honest with you, it was just a lot of planning and prep and I Did. Not. Stop. It’s a lot of work, but it’s so worth it. It’s, like, unbelievable, and again, I’m so grateful for the crew and everyone who helped me bring my vision to life. I don’t want to say there were a lot of challenges, but there were a few along the way — “bumps in the road” — but it’s just about being resourceful, knowing you’re on a clock, and knowing how to communicate what your vision is. I had luckily done the WB Directors Program so I was very well prepared. And I learned a few things in the editing room, which was great. * * *TVLINE | Oliver and Thea sitting on the cliffside, you had to be pretty proud of that shot. It was gorgeous. Oh my God, isn’t that so beautiful? That was the last scene [filmed] of that episode. I basically shot the whole episode, which was a big episode, and then I had to shoot that scene three days into [Episode] 804, so I had to go back to directing in the middle of my acting day. But I was in such a good flow and I felt really confident. That last scene, I came up with that shot on the fly that day and that’s what’s cool about it. It was f–king beautiful and amazing. Again, grateful for my DP, my crew. But also the shot at the end [where Oliver first sees grown-up Mia and William in the bunker], I also came up with on the fly, and that’s also another really fun shot. But thank you, I appreciate that, and thank you for the kudos on my performance. TVLINE | In the time loop episode, 803, Laurel got closure with Quentin that she perhaps didn’t know she needed. Did it mean a lot to you to also get one last big emotional scene with Paul Blackthorne? It definitely did. I actually struggled with that scene a lot, but I think the character did, too. * * *TVLINE | I have to imagine you weren’t afforded much time to prepare for it, but how did you adjust your performance for the backdoor spinoff episode, 809? So that we got a sense that this Laurel is a little bit different? I did not have a ton prepared, but it’s interesting because I think that our showrunners and writers for that episode — Beth [Schwartz], Marc [Guggenheim], Oscar [Balderrama], Jill [Blankenship] — I’ve worked with all of them for all of the last eight years. They know what I’m capable of in terms of, as an actor, and they know where I tend to shine, and I think for that episode particularly they leaned into that in terms of writing, so I was able to sort of sink my teeth into it. I’ve also expressed to them, which is true — and I think seeing that episode, you get the sense of it — that I as a performer do my best work when I streamline through the episode, when they write for me and I can really immerse myself in the world every day. That’s when you’re going to get the best performance, when I’m actually living it. I think it’s cool because you see her, like, harder side, but she’s also… TVLINE | Looser. She felt a little looser to me. Yes. She has heart and she has, you know, a side that’s softer to her, and I think she wants to share that, but you can see she’s torn. She’s a warrior, and she wants Mia to be one, too. I don’t know — she’s complex, I guess. TVLINE | Is there something that you know about Laurel of the spinoff — some secret that you have been told about her — that we don’t know yet that’s fun or juicy? Well of course! But I can’t spoil it…. But yeah, I’ve talked about it with the writers and stuff, yeah…. TVLINE | Any anecdotes from shooting the Arrow season finale? It was very nostalgic. I feel like the last season was so short, and so the whole season just feels so nostalgic in a way. * * *TVLINE | It seemed like our resurrected Tommy was being just a bit flirty there with Laurel at the funeral. What do you think her POV on that is? “Been there, done that”? Well, I don’t knowwww…. [Laughs] Given what happened with this Laurel and her Tommy on Earth-Two…. [Note: TVLine will soon be sharing a deleted scene that sheds light on the doppelgangers’ dynamic.] TVLINE | Was there any character moment you were hoping to get in the final season that you didn’t quite get? Like, do you feel like you and Stephen [Amell] had enough meaningful moments? Yeah. But I wish there was more. I liked it when it was Stephen and I partnering up [early in the season], that was cool and fun for me. I wished there was more of that, I wished we saw more of that. And I think that with the spinoff that could be a possibility. TVLINE | What are you hearing on the Green Arrow and the Canaries front? Any timeline for getting word on a pick-up? I don’t know, honestly, just because, again, in this time in this world nobody really knows anything. For me, I’m a very positive person. I feel confident, positive that we’ll go [to series], because I think they are super-excited about it. It’s very fresh. And if there was ever a time for a three-hander, all-female badass show, now is the time. I love the [Arrow] family and our fans, and I think it will be good. I’m not worried. I feel pretty good about it. TVLINE | What are you most excited to explore in this new chapter for Laurel? More of Black Siren and what her life was, and how she got there to 2040, and just more of her leading this task of heroes, of women, along with the Green Arrow and the other Black Canary. I love playing a hero. I love playing a villain…. I’m just excited to jump into it. TVLINE | Lastly, a nice heavy question for you: How is the Katie Cassidy I’m talking to right now different from the one that shot that pilot eight years ago? How have you changed as a person, as an actress? Ohhh, I think I definitely have more gratitude for everything. I think that I’ve grown in so many ways personally, and this show really helped shape me. I think I have gratitude, appreciation, and you learn, you grow… your have your personal life, you have your work life… you just have to continue to evolve and be open I think that them killing me off the show was actually, for me personally, a very good thing, because like I said, you sometimes need to get knocked down. I didn’t want to get killed off — to be honest, I was sad, but I also understood. I wasn’t mad or bitter. I was like, “I get it, this is television” and it was a platform for the writers to write for other characters and how they react to a lead getting killed off. So I have to say that as a person going through that, I was grateful and lucky enough — again, the universe I think does work for us if we allow it to — that they brought me back shortly after, and for that I was so grateful. So getting the part, and getting sort of knocked down, and then getting the part — because like I wasn’t the Black Canary when I thought at first I was, and then I wasn’t, and then I was, and then I got killed off, and then I was alive again [Laughs]…. You kind of go through all the emotions, so you really just have to ground yourself and have appreciation and gratitude for everything. I really am glad that I got to learn that lesson. Edited April 24, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
RS3 April 24, 2020 Share April 24, 2020 29 minutes ago, tv echo said: I wasn’t mad or bitter. Ah, when you catch a case of selective memory. 10 Link to comment
Trisha April 24, 2020 Share April 24, 2020 EW has a deleted scene from the Season 8 premiere:https://ew.com/tv/arrow-deleted-scene-tommy-moira-season-8/ Quote It turns out we didn't see all of Oliver's sad-awkward reunion dinner with his family on Earth-2 in Arrow's final season premiere. EW is exclusively debuting a deleted scene from the season 8 opener "Starling City," which saw Oliver (Stephen Amell) travel to a parallel Earth on a mission for the Monitor (LaMonica Garrett). In the version of Queen-Merlyn dinner scene that aired, Oliver pensively listened as Tommy (Colin Donell), Malcolm (John Barrowman), and Moira (Susanna Thompson) revealed what he missed while he was "away" (Moira and Malcolm's marriage, Tommy's two failed marriages) before asking to be excused from the dinner table. As the above clip reveals, though, Oliver also used the meal as an opportunity to confront Malcolm and Moira about their affair, which comes as a surprise to Tommy. "Well, you were together before when my father was alive. And Thea is — Thea was your daughter," says Oliver, shocking Malcolm in the process. Thankfully, Tommy is there to cut the tension with some much-needed comedic relief. "Well, hey, we always said we wanted to be brothers, right?" says Tommy. This definitely isn't how the scene played out when it aired on TV. In the original version, Tommy made fun of his messy marriage history, and Oliver solemnly reacted to their parents getting married before asking if he could retire to his room because he was tired. 1 Link to comment
lemotomato April 25, 2020 Share April 25, 2020 5 hours ago, tv echo said: TVLINE | Was there any character moment you were hoping to get in the final season that you didn’t quite get? Like, do you feel like you and Stephen [Amell] had enough meaningful moments? Yeah. But I wish there was more. I liked it when it was Stephen and I partnering up [early in the season], that was cool and fun for me. I wished there was more of that, I wished we saw more of that. And I think that with the spinoff that could be a possibility. She is never ever going to give up on Laurel and Oliver, is she? 6 Link to comment
insomniadreams88 April 25, 2020 Share April 25, 2020 Just now, lemotomato said: She is never ever going to give up on Laurel and Oliver, is she? Nope. But for every interview in which she says she wants to see Oliver in the spinoff, there’s at least one with SA saying he’s done playing Oliver. 2 Link to comment
Chaser April 25, 2020 Share April 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said: Nope. But for every interview in which she says she wants to see Oliver in the spinoff, there’s at least one with SA saying he’s done playing Oliver. Coincidence? I think not. 1 Link to comment
Featherhat April 25, 2020 Share April 25, 2020 (edited) Getting killed off and knocked down hasn't actually changed how KC comes across in interviews even if it gave her new perspective in real life. Even if they hadn't done the brilliant game changer of bringing the kids back from the future I doubt Oliver and Laurel would have got very many more significant scenes, they seemed somewhat allergic to writing those in the last couple of seasons. The ones that she was tweeting about "hey check out Laurel and Oliver!!" in eps 1 and 2 were the most they'd had since S3 but not amazingly emotional - mostly for me because I was incredibly annoyed she was blaming Oliver for the destruction and *how* she was blaming him. It is amusing that she's completely "nah to Tommy and Laurel because of stuff that happened" and yes! to exploring more Laurel and Oliver who seem to have a completely effed up relationship on every Earth. I think at this point it's because she knows her fans want that interaction and she'd be proving some kind of point about what she was promised 8 years ago. JH did this as well when they were promoting the BDP episode (and kinda spoiled Oliver wasn't 100% dead) but why say you really want SA to guest star when the last Arrow show was completely about his character? Pick someone less obvious because you have a GA. Especially when SA had been ranting about how done he is for months and the spin off was only commissioned because he was done. Edited April 25, 2020 by Featherhat 4 Link to comment
tv echo April 25, 2020 Share April 25, 2020 (edited) There's an implicit Olicity reference in this April 24, 2020 NetFlixLife article about The Flash's Iris West...https://netflixlife.com/2020/04/24/candice-patton-iris-west-the-flash-heart/ Quote Not only that – it’s hard – or better yet, try impossible, to imagine the show without her. This isn’t because of the history. I had a hard time imagining the Green Arrow without the Black Canary, but Arrow made that work. ... Edited April 25, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo April 27, 2020 Share April 27, 2020 (edited) ‘Arrow’ Showrunner Reflects on Series’ Legacy on Eve of Final Season Arriving on Blu-ray JOHN LATCHEM April 27, 2020https://www.mediaplaynews.com/arrow-showrunner-reflects-on-series-legacy-on-eve-of-final-season-arriving-on-blu-ray/ Quote In its eighth and final season, “Arrow” was tasked with not only its own finale, but also a setting up a potential spinoff, not to mention servicing one of the largest crossover events in television history. And it had just 10 episodes to do it, when previous seasons had averaged about 23. “There were challenges, but also we were very excited about the shorter episode order because it allowed us the freedom to do a different kind of structure, and I don’t think we would have been able to do that if we had a full 22 or 23 episodes,” said executive producer Beth Schwartz, who has written for the show since its first season and served as showrunner for seasons seven and eight. Warner Bros. Home Entertainment April 28 will release Arrow: The Eighth and Final Season as three-disc Blu-ray Disc and DVD sets. The same day also sees the release Arrow: The Complete Series on 31 Blu-ray Discs or 38 DVDs containing all 170 episodes of the show that began in 2012. * * * For the first five seasons, the show used a flashback structure interweaving and contrasting Oliver’s time in exile with events of the present. “In some ways the flashback structure was so great, especially in the first two seasons, where is explains that missing time and that’s how it’s constructed,” Schwartz said. “But once we got past that time, it started to feel a little formulaic, where we were just putting flashbacks in because that’s what the structure was. I think that’s when we all realized that it would be nice to take a break from the flashback structure and spend more time with our present-day characters.” In season seven, the show adopted a flash-forward narrative set in 2040 focused on Oliver’s children, Mia (Katherine McNamara) and William (Ben Lewis). “We always talked about flash forwarding, but we didn’t want to assume the show was going to go for as many years as it went for, so we didn’t know if that was ever going to be a possibility,” Schwartz said. “But there was always the discussion early on that it would be interesting to see this idea of flash-forwarding to his children.” * * *The season-eight and complete-series Blu-ray sets include a limited-edition bonus disc with all five episodes of “Crisis on Infinite Earths” and six crossover featurettes. The ability to collect the entirety of “Crisis” thus gives the Blu-ray a distinct advantage over the DVD, which just includes the “Arrow” episode of the crossover. “We wrote the story imagining the viewer experiencing all of them in order as you watch them live on television,” Schwartz said. “You want to serve your own show obviously in your hour, but you’re also serving a larger story. And how the crossovers have evolved, especially ‘Crisis,’ is it has turned into a huge movie event. But it’s not even about your show anymore, it’s about the story of ‘Crisis.’ Yes, on the DVD it probably won’t make sense if you haven’t seen the other ones.” * * * “The real heroes are the first A.D.s on all the shows because the scheduling has the most challenges,” Schwartz said. “And for us having the crossover and also the series finale where we have so many guest stars from the other shows, I’m super grateful for all those actors who were able to squeeze that in after working tirelessly on all the crossover episodes.” * * * Because the ‘Crisis’ storyline involved alien beings with the power to bend time and space, Oliver’s future children were brought to the present to join the fight. “That was super important in terms of getting that connection between Mia and Oliver because they never met,” Schwartz said. “So as soon as we knew we were doing ‘Crisis’ and we were allowed to do things like that, because our show as much as we can keep it is very grounded, so it opened it up a lot more which we were grateful for because we knew we could get these amazing scenes between Stephen and Kat. Mia and Oliver because had never met before and she was so much like him, and those scenes were great.” The fourth episode of “Crisis” was also the third-to-last episode of “Arrow.” The second-to-last episode of the final season, “Green Arrow & The Canaries,” was made as a backdoor pilot for a new spinoff in which Mia picks up the mantle of the Green Arrow 20 years in the future. “The spinoff was the most challenging because we had to fit it right between ‘Crisis’ and the finale,” Schwartz said. “I think it works really well looking back because you were actually able to see 20 years in the future after ‘Crisis’ … and the other future that we saw leading up to ‘Crisis’ had been changed forever. So I think it allowed us to do a lot of things that we wouldn’t have been able to do if we didn’t have that backdoor pilot in that position.” Production shutdowns associated with the coronavirus pandemic have delayed the decision about whether the spinoff has been picked up, she said. The Blu-ray and DVD also include deleted scenes, the Arrow: Hitting the Bullseye finale retrospective special, and highlights from the DC Comics shows at San Diego Comic-Con 2019. The series is also available for purchase through digital retailers, and the Blu-ray editions of the series and final season will come with digital copies of the episodes. Schwartz is now working on a project that will take her beyond the Arrowverse, but looks back fondly at her time helping to develop the franchise. “I think about it more in terms of the characters and not the reality of how they’re making all the shows, but the legacy of ‘Arrow’ and specifically Oliver Queen brings out this world that sort of got out of control with so many shows and it’s so crazy to think about it,” Schwartz said. “I just remember season one, watching the pilot and joining everyone in the writers room and wondering if people were going to like this show. We all liked it and we felt it was something different, but we had no idea how people would respond to it. It’s just so hard to wrap your brain around what it has created and it just makes me feel happy to have been a part of this experience.” Edited April 27, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 27, 2020 Share April 27, 2020 (edited) 3 movies to get on DVD and Blu-ray this week: April 28 by Alexandria Ingham April 27, 2020https://amazonadviser.com/2020/04/27/movies-dvd-and-blu-ray-april-28/ Quote 2. Arrow Season 8 Okay, so this isn’t actually a movie. Well, not really. I will admit that the first seven episodes of the season will feel like a 7-hour movie though. It’s time to find out how Arrow came to an end (if you didn’t watch it on The CW as it aired). If you get the Blu-ray version, you’ll also get the four other episodes of the Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline. This is certainly worth the extra money. Edited April 27, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 27, 2020 Share April 27, 2020 (edited) If the video is not showing up n the below ETonline article, you can also watch it in this MSN article... 'Arrow' Deleted Scene: Oliver Threatens Rene's Job Security in Final Season (Exclusive) By Philiana Ng April 27, 2020https://www.etonline.com/arrow-deleted-scene-oliver-threatens-renes-job-security-in-final-season-exclusive-145492 Quote ET exclusively premieres a deleted scene from the season 8 premiere, "Starling City," which found vigilante hero Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) transported to a parallel earth, Earth-2, to complete a dangerous mission for The Monitor (LaMonica Garrett) in the lead-up to "Crisis on Infinite Earths." In the scene, which was ultimately cut for time, Oliver makes his way to Queen-Merlyn Enterprises, the company run by his mother, Moira Queen, and Malcolm Merlyn, only to be caught by Malcolm's bodyguard, Rene Ramirez (Rick Gonzalez) as he's trying to gather intel at Curtis' computer. Things get a little hairy for Oliver from that point on. "What are you doing here?" Earth-2 Rene asks Oliver, who looks up from the computer with a scowl on his face in ET's first look, which will be available on the Arrow: The Eighth & Final Season DVD and Blu-ray set. "Whatever the hell I want. Last I checked it was my name on the side of the building," Oliver fires back, before threatening him with a stern warning. "Just don't let anyone know that you saw me doing anything down here, otherwise you'll probably have difficulty getting a job pushing a mop at Big Belly Burger." * * * Executive producer Beth Schwartz revealed why this encounter between Oliver and Rene on Earth-2 didn't make it into the episode that aired. "It's so funny," Schwartz tells ET of the brief moment. "I was so sad to cut it and the only reason we cut it was because we were over about maybe four minutes, which doesn't seem like a lot, but it is a lot when you like every single second of what's on the screen. We only chose to cut that scene because it didn't affect the rest of the story. It wouldn't be confusing to the audience without having that. But yeah, it was really fun and I'm glad everyone gets to see it now." As Schwartz tells it, the banter between the two characters in this scene highlighted just how unique Oliver and Rene's dynamic was, even if this does technically take place on an alternate Earth. "I think it's fun because Oliver and Rene always kind of had an interesting relationship. In the finale, [there's a line about Oliver and Rene], 'You two are so alike,' which is why I think they butt heads a lot," Schwartz explains. "This was a fun nod where you could tell Stephen was having a lot of fun giving [some heat back] to Rene." Edited April 27, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 27, 2020 Share April 27, 2020 (edited) KGET TV 17 is the NBC affiliate in Bakersfield, CA... Katie Cassidy happy with final ‘Arrow’ season Rick Bentley Posted: Apr 27, 2020https://www.kget.com/community/ricks-reviews/katie-cassidy-happy-with-final-arrow-season/ Quote Katie Cassidy, who played Laurel Lance and the Black Canary on the comic book-inspired production, got to see from the inside what gave the show its longevity. The show, according to Cassidy, works because it never was just a program about people in weird outfits battling crime. “It was definitely a hybrid because you had this high-concept, action show but they also kept it very much grounded,” Cassidy says. “There was a lot of story and a lot of heart behind the Arrow. “You had his backstory plus all of the other characters who helped keep it grounded.” * * * Queen returns home to Star City determined to right the wrongs of his family and fighting injustice. Cassidy’s character started out as a legal aid attorney and Queen’s ex-girlfriend, who later becomes a vigilante and becomes the Black Canary. Cassidy likes the idea that the combination of the super hero elements and serious human stories made the show good programming for all ages. * * * Cassidy describes the series finale as going out on a high note. “I hate to say it by some shows tend to overdo it with their finale and drag it out so much. It’s like they have beaten a dead horse in a way,” Cassidy says. “What was really nice about our shows is that I don’t think we really did that. “I feel like we went out at a time when our show was still very much relevant but we told the story we wanted to tell and we left it and it’s time to move on. We left it in a way that leaves a place where a spinoff show could go. * * * No job until “Arrow” pushed Cassidy so hard. She got to play Lance in a variety of ways because of the way the character would leave and return in a new form. This was also the most demand job she ever faced physically. “One thing I am very grateful and fortunate for is as an actor, I was certainly not bored ever while working on ‘Arrow.’ They gave me a lot to do and I love working,” Cassidy says. “I like working particular when it is being creative and that’s definitely what the writers did for me.” That creativity took some careful planning on Cassidy’s part. Because there were so many versions of the character, various timelines and different worlds. Cassidy had to make sure she knew which version of Lance she was playing, in what period of time and how much the character did or didn’t know. As for the physicality of the role, Cassidy says, “The way that I work I do a backstory for the character. For me, something this physically demanding, made it helpful playing the character because I try to immerse myself in a role as much as possible.” Edited April 27, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 28, 2020 Share April 28, 2020 (edited) Beth comments on the 804 deleted scene... Arrow: Exclusive Season 8 Deleted Scene Features Ollie Confronting the Monitor By Jesse Schedeen 27 Apr 2020https://www.ign.com/articles/arrow-final-season-exclusive-deleted-scene-ollie-monitor-crisis Quote Arrow's eighth and final season is about to arrive on DVD and Blu-ray, and we have an exclusive deleted scene from one of the series' final episodes. The scene in question was cut from the fourth episode of Season 8, titled "Present Tense." Having just witnessed his adult children pulled from the year 2040 into the present, an angry Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) confronts The Monitor (LaMonica Garrett) to find out why the powerful cosmic being has dragged Mia and William into the coming Crisis. Check out the video in the player above or embedded below: * * * It's a shame this scene didn't make it into the final version of "Present Tense," as it offers valuable insight into the tense working relationship between Ollie and Mar Novu. While the two may have been on the same page by the time the actual Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover rolled around, this clip is a reminder that things weren't always so rosy. Executive producer Beth Schwartz offered a little extra background for this deleted scene. Basically, it was decided that the confrontation between Ollie and Mar Novu was an unnecessary distraction from the more immediate tension between Ollie and his children. Schwartz told IGN, "This scene originally took place after Oliver sees his adult children, Mia and William, arrive in the bunker from the future. We wrote the scene to demonstrate Oliver's heartbreak and anger at the Monitor for involving his family in Crisis. Especially since the whole reason Oliver has been preparing to fight in Crisis is to protect his family. The decision to take the scene out was so we could play those emotions directly between Oliver and his children. But I'm happy that the fans will get to see it now since every scene between the Monitor and Oliver Queen is extremely dynamic." Edited April 28, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 (edited) Another 801 deleted scene - this makes no sense to me, because E2 Laurel was the evil Black Siren back on Earth-2 before she traveled to Earth-1. So did E2 Tommy know but just didn't care because he himself was the Dark Archer? - fyi, I posted the video of this deleted scene in the 801 episode thread... Deleted Arrow Scene: Earth-2's Tommy and Laurel Revisit Old (Sexy!) Times By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 28 2020https://tvline.com/2020/04/28/arrow-deleted-scene-finale-season-8-laurel-tommy-earth-two/ Quote If you were curious just how (ahem) close Earth-Two’s Laurel and Tommy were, this deleted scene from Arrow‘s final season is about to clear things up. * * * Nonetheless, a resurrected playboy billionaire is to be lavishly feted, and at one point during said soiree, Tommy (aka that universe’s Dark Archer, played by Colin Donnell) makes sure that Laurel (aka the vigilante Black Siren, played by Katie Cassidy) knows that the bar is stocked with her wine of choice, pinot noir. As broadcast on The CW in October, the duo’s banter ended there, followed by a clink of cocktail glasses. But in the extended scene above — from Arrow: The Eighth and Final Season (available on Blu-ray and DVD April 28) — Tommy has a bit more to say, some rrrrribald reminiscing to do. Press play above to watch the complete scene, then read on for more. If the dialogue in this extended scene gave you a sense of deja vu — as the “pinot noir” reference did, when the Season 8 premiere originally aired — it is by design. The playful “lapse” debate was a word-for-word callback to one of the final scenes in the series’ October 2012 pilot, when (Earth-One’s) Tommy and Laurel politely disagreed about how much of an “us” they had become in presumed-dead Oliver’s absence (see photo at right). Edited April 29, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
Chaser April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 For hilarity purposes I wish they hadn’t cut the scene. KC is acting like she just sucked on a lemon and is trying not to let it show. 3 Link to comment
Primal Slayer April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 37 minutes ago, tv echo said: Another 801 deleted scene - this makes no sense to me, because E2 Laurel was the evil Black Siren back on Earth-2 before she traveled to Earth-1. So did E2 Tommy know but just didn't care because he himself was the Dark Archer? - fyi, I posted the video of this deleted scene in the 801 episode thread... Deleted Arrow Scene: Earth-2's Tommy and Laurel Revisit Old (Sexy!) Times By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 28 2020https://tvline.com/2020/04/28/arrow-deleted-scene-finale-season-8-laurel-tommy-earth-two/ Maybe they couldn't recognize her outside of costume.....even without a mask. Or maybe she wore a mask at first? Or she had freedom to do as she liked while Zoom was around. Link to comment
tv echo April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, tv echo said: Quote If the dialogue in this extended scene gave you a sense of deja vu — as the “pinot noir” reference did, when the Season 8 premiere originally aired — it is by design. The playful “lapse” debate was a word-for-word callback to one of the final scenes in the series’ October 2012 pilot, when (Earth-One’s) Tommy and Laurel politely disagreed about how much of an “us” they had become in presumed-dead Oliver’s absence (see photo at right). Here's the scene from 1x01 that TVLine's referencing... (Katie Cassidy Daily) ETA: This dialogue is also virtually identical to what was written in the tie-in comic, Arrow Volume 2, Chapter 26 ("Lapse," story by MG, script by Mary Iacano and Katherine Walczak). Edited April 29, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
Chaser April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 (edited) She didn’t wear a mask as Black Siren and girl was not subtle about her serial killer tendencies. My head canon is they would see footage of Black Siren screaming down buildings and be like ‘That’s so Laurel’. Edited April 29, 2020 by Chaser 1 Link to comment
lemotomato April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, tv echo said: Here's the scene from 1x01 that TVLine's referencing... Comparing the two scenes is a whole lot of yikes. The original scene is flirty and cute. The remake in 801, with KC making a sour face, as @Chaser pointed out, is not at all “playful”. (Sorry, Mitovitch.) 2 hours ago, tv echo said: Another 801 deleted scene - this makes no sense to me, because E2 Laurel was the evil Black Siren back on Earth-2 before she traveled to Earth-1. Also, wasn’t Oliver gone for 13 years on E2? Did Tommy think BS was so devoted to her dead cheating boyfriend she’d want to pick up with him after more than a decade?? 2 Link to comment
scarynikki12 April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 I think it was smart to delete this scene. It doesn't add to the episode or season and compares poorly to the one in the pilot. It does expand what we know of Arrow doppelgangers: Oliver Queen never ends up with Dinah Laurel Lance, she will always remain hung up on the one from her Earth, and Tommy is always the guy she settles for rather than the one she actively wants. 4 Link to comment
Primal Slayer April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 2 hours ago, tv echo said: Here's the scene from 1x01 that TVLine's referencing... (Katie Cassidy Daily) ETA: This dialogue is also virtually identical to what was written in the tie-in comic, Arrow Volume 2, Chapter 26 ("Lapse," story by MG, script by Mary Iacano and Katherine Walczak). This makes me wish they had gotten in a "Dinah laurel Lance...always trying to end the world" somewhere with Black Siren lol. God I miss Laurommy or whatever their ship name is/couldve been. Link to comment
Featherhat April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 (edited) I've seen "Merlance" floating around as the more popular smashed together version. The scene was alright. Nowhere near the scene in the pilot though, where both injected a lot more life and flirtiness into it. In this neither of them seemed in to re creating the moment, even CD who put a lot of effort into lifting their scenes the first time around. The pilot scene also set up their series long love triangle and GA/BC/Dark Archer origin story that wasn't. I guess if they already planned to have Tommy/Laurel married for a few years in the finale this would remind people that they had a thing. This is the scene that's the reason KC said she doesn't want E2 to have anything to do with Prime!Tommy if the spin off is picked up? Granted it's potentially really questionable to replace loved ones with their multiverse counterparts but that doesn't stop her from saying she wants SA to guest star so they can explore Laurel and Oliver backstory some more. She's welcome to her preferences of course and I guess it gets the most attention from her fanbase but at this point she should be hoping all versions of Laurel move on to someone who loves them the most and doesn't chose her sister over her twice, propose to someone else at least twice and you know recreated the universe and made it so she married someone else. Whether that's Tommy for an ep or two or a completely different guy. Edited April 29, 2020 by Featherhat 2 Link to comment
Trisha April 29, 2020 Share April 29, 2020 This person describes all the deleted scenes on the DVDs in this thread: Sounds like this is the only interesting one: 3 Link to comment
way2interested April 30, 2020 Share April 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Trisha said: Sounds like this is the only interesting one: You mean of the ones not released yet? Because idk that 804 one seemed like the best one to me, although form Beth's interview I kind of get why it was deleted. Link to comment
tv echo April 30, 2020 Share April 30, 2020 (edited) ‘Arrow: The Eighth and Final Season’ – Home Release Review Posted by Rodney On April 28, 2020https://thegeekiary.com/arrow-the-eighth-and-final-season-review/81937 Quote While I personally felt a strong sentimental connection to this season of the show, I have to admit it was not my favorite. Normally, I’d be happy with the shorter bunch of episodes per season, seeing as how The CW’s Arrowverse shows tend to feel bloated from time-to-time. And yet, having only 10 episodes for the last outing of the series that started everything felt lackluster to me because so much of the very little time left was wasted on frivolous things. * * *Arrow‘s season eight was essentially in two separate acts—pre-Crisis and post-Crisis. The pre-Crisis episodes (8×01-7) spent the majority of the time revisiting most of the threats and locations that Oliver had been challenged to defeat in prior seasons. This gave us the return of characters like Talia Al Ghul, Tommy Merlyn, Thea Queen, Roy Harper, Quentin Lance, Prometheus, and Moira Queen. But while these episodes brought back familiar faces, the rest of the content felt like filler and the episodes sorely missed the great chemistry between Oliver and Felicity (you should know Felicity’s actress left the show prior to the series’ final season). Admittedly, things feeling like filler was a problem that The Flash also had with it’s sixth season’s pre-crisis episodes. There was no real direction and all of the episodes leading up to the crossover event felt as though they were there to just keep the audience busy. Oliver spent the entirety of his last episodes on-screen talking about how the Crisis was coming while not doing much more. The last two episodes of the season (post-Crisis) felt even messier because Oliver was now dead. And while superhero characters frequently die, only to come back a few episodes later, his death was permanent. As a result, the last couple of episodes felt disjointed and mournful without the leading man there to carry things along. However, I do have to admit the closing scene of the series finale with Oliver and Felicity was too sweet to handle. I loved it. Very rarely can a television show end the series with the main character dying without things seeming a bit too rushed. And yet, Oliver’s death didn’t necessarily feel cheap. Yes, the last episodes felt off without him, but it didn’t feel as though the writers backed themselves into a corner and had to suffer from the errors of their writing. Things made sense and there was a sense of completeness by the final scene of this series. Edited April 30, 2020 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
tv echo April 30, 2020 Share April 30, 2020 (edited) 10 Most Heartbreaking Arrowverse Deaths By RUSS BURLINGAME - April 29, 2020https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/10-most-heartbreaking-arrowverse-deaths/ Quote Moira Queen ... One of the first truly shocking Arrowverse deaths was the murder of Moira Queen by Deathstroke during the show's second season. The heartbreaking scene, which also saw great acting by Stephen Amell and Willa Holland as Moira's terrified kids, actually was so iconic that they revisited it in the series finale earlier this year. * * *Tommy Meryln ... The biggest and most surprising death of the first season of Arrow was Tommy Merlyn. Given how often he reappears and is referenced, it seems like the producers second-guessed it...but either way, fans were heartbroken to lose the character so soon, and then excited to revisit him (or versions of him) every time he showed up during the course of the show. Laurel Lance ... Laurel Lance's death was not much of a surprise in some ways -- fans had been speculating about it for a while, in part because her role as the show's designated love interest had long since been discarded in favor of a romance between Oliver and TV's radically reinvented version of Felicity Smoak. Still, the episode was pretty intense, and even when you saw it coming, it was still a shock to see one of the series' few remaining people who had been in the pilot say goodbye in a pretty violent way. * * *Oliver Queen ... Oliver Queen almost didn't make the list -- not because his death wasn't felt pretty intensely, but because we had about a year to get used to the idea. Between "Elseworlds" and "Crisis on Infinite Earths," it was pretty clear that Oliver wouldn't survive the Crisis...but even so, watching him die -- more than once -- and express his love and pride for Felicity and Mia was hard to sit through without a tear. * * *Honorable Mentions ...Samantha Clayton: She was never a huge character on Arrow, and the loss of her death was largely overshadowed by the relief that after the Arrowverse's biggest-ever season-ending cliffhanger, most of the other characters we loved were still on the board...but it's hard to argue that it wasn't tragic to see another innocent person die because of her proximity to Oliver Queen -- and of course, seeing how it all impacted young William didn't make it easier. Nora West-Allen Martin Stein Moira Queen Henry Allen Catherine Kane Tommy Meryln Laurel Lance Barry Allen of Earth-90 Oliver Queen Behrad Honorable Mentions: Ronnie Raymond Damien Darhk Beth Kane Samantha Clayton Edited April 30, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo May 1, 2020 Share May 1, 2020 (edited) Superheroes we lost in 2020 BY MICHILEEN MARTIN/APRIL 30, 2020 https://www.looper.com/206177/superheroes-we-lost-in-2020/ Quote But saving the world is dangerous business, and there are still some heroic sacrifices coming in under the wire. The climax of the CW's massive Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover saw the departure of one of television's most beloved superheroes. And in funnybooks big and small, the never-ending war between good and evil has claimed some victims. From mutants to witches, from forgotten sea heroes to unrepentant man-sharks, here are the superheroes we lost in 2020. * * *Green Arrow (Arrow, Crisis on Infinite Earths Part 4) ... During the CW's huge 2019-20 Crisis on Infinite Earths event, no one had a rougher time than Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell). By the end of the event, he had died twice. Arrow's final season finds the hero falling in battle against the Anti-Monitor's armies. Then, after his body is revived without his soul, it (along with the rest of the multiverse) is destroyed by the destructive anti-matter wave. Still, Green Arrow isn't done yet. In Purgatory, Queen is recruited by Jim Corrigan (Stephen Lobo) to be the new host for the Spectre — an immensely powerful being who, in DC Comics, is literally the wrath of God. After using his new abilities to help Flash (Grant Gustin) escape the Speed Force, Queen gives more direct help in the battle against the Anti-Monitor (LaMonica Garrett). His new power allows him to go toe-to-toe with the villain and to help create the new multiverse. Sadly, he doesn't survive the battle for long. Dying, he tells Barry and Sara Lance (Caity Lotz) that he's at peace, and that the new multiverse will need them. The entire world honors his sacrifice in both the Legends of Tomorrow episode that ends the event and the Arrow series finale. Before the series ends, we see Oliver reunited in the afterlife with Felicity Smoak (marking the return of Emily Bett Rickards, who had departed the show at the end of the penultimate season). Edited May 1, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo May 2, 2020 Share May 2, 2020 (edited) If this cv pandemic had happened in 2012, Arrow would be a much different show (assuming it even got a green light) and we might never have had Felicity Smoak (EBR) - no close-up fight stunts, no close-up love scenes, no day players and only limited guest stars... Warner Bros. TV Presidents Outline How Coronavirus Could Dramatically Change Production and Content (EXCLUSIVE) By Kate Aurthur May 1, 2020https://variety.com/2020/biz/news/television-production-warner-bros-coronavirus-1234595453/ Quote ... While the Warner Bros. presidents were mostly speaking hypothetically, the call shed light on some unexpected ways in which the coronavirus might change television, down to its plots. One such example: There was a suggestion that love scenes might need to be eliminated, because actors won’t want to be in close contact. The same was said of fight scenes that would require stunt doubles to violate the rules of social distancing. * * * Since showrunners and executive producers were on the call, Rovner and Paul made a number of suggestions that will affect storytelling. For intimate scenes, Rovner said “we believe we’re going to need a plan for limited physical contact between actors,” and “intimate scenes may need to be reimagined or even reconceived.” Close-up stunts will also be affected, Paul said — stunts that are “hand to hand, face to face, requiring physical contact” like fight scenes, will probably have to be axed. But larger stunts from at least six feet away “may still be OK,” he added. * * * The Ferguson/Kavanaugh-Jones proposal is calamitous for guest actors and day players, rigidly specifying “there will be no day players.” The Warner Bros. presidents were not as draconian, but Rovner did say “we need to look at limiting the amount of guest actors.” But with crowd scenes, she said, “We believe it’s going to be very hard to have big scenes with many extras, both because of social distancing and because of local rules of how many people can congregate at one time.” She suggested writers work around crowd scenes, or, alternatively, use visual effects to create or add to them. As far as shooting goes, Paul said that outdoor locations might be limited, and getting permits will likely be more difficult. He suggested creating stories that use more of a show’s permanent sets or “swing sets” (sets built for a specific episode). He said that crew size will be determined by “social distancing requirements,” but didn’t get into specifics. Everyone on set — except for the actors when they’re shooting a scene — will be wearing face coverings, gloves and possibly even gowns. The sets will be closed to visitors. And craft services will be different, with meals possibly being staggered to accommodate social distancing requirements. Edited May 2, 2020 by tv echo 4 Link to comment
RS3 May 2, 2020 Share May 2, 2020 (edited) On one hand, I'd rather see filming being postponed, but on the other hand I understand it's impossible because people in the industry need an income, and therefore a job. At this point, wouldn't be less awkward to write the virus in than find excuses for characters not to be in the same vicinity? It's like when pregnant actors have to stand behind furniture. Edited May 2, 2020 by RS3 2 Link to comment
apinknightmare May 2, 2020 Share May 2, 2020 We really lucked out with Arrow ending when it did. 6 Link to comment
tv echo May 3, 2020 Share May 3, 2020 (edited) Arrow: The Character Grant Gustin Originally Auditioned For BY ZACHARY KANDELL MAY 02, 2020https://screenrant.com/arrow-grant-gustin-flash-audition-character-thea-boyfriend/ Quote Before being cast as Barry Allen on The Flash, Grant Gustin auditioned for the role of Roy Harper on Arrow. The role ultimately went to Colton Haynes, best known at that time for his role on MTV’s Teen Wolf, leaving Gustin free to appear in other roles in the Arrowverse. Many fans were unsure about casting Gustin as Barry Allen on The Flash, thinking that he would’ve been a better fit as either of the younger versions of the Flash, such as Wally West or Bart Allen. Barry is usually an older, more experienced character, a vibe that Gustin doesn’t exactly give off. He was changed significantly for the show, with many coming around to the idea that this is the perfect version of Barry Allen for the Arrowverse. * * * Grant Gustin was one of many actors who auditioned for the role of Roy Harper on Arrow. He ultimately got the better deal, as while Roy became a regular after Arrow season 1, Gustin was cast the next year as the lead of The Flash, a much bigger and more prominent role in the Arrowverse. * * * The potential casting of Grant Gustin as Roy Harper could have lead to a really intriguing possibility. Melissa Benoist, who plays Kara Danvers/Supergirl, auditioned to play Thea Queen on Arrow. Fans have loved whenever Benoist and Gustin appeared together in crossovers, and their potential casting as Thea and Roy would have led to them playing a couple. They certainly have the chemistry to make it work, and it would have been intriguing to see. Edited May 3, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo May 7, 2020 Share May 7, 2020 (edited) Unsurprisingly, most of these deaths occurred on Arrow... 15 Most Heartbreaking Deaths In The Arrowverse Ethan Cross May 7, 2020https://whatculture.com/tv/15-most-heartbreaking-deaths-in-the-arrowverse Quote 5. Laurel Lance ... The Black Canary died after sustaining injuries from Damien Darhk during season 4 of Arrow. * * *4. Tommy Merlyn ... Speaking of Laurel Lance, Tommy died while trying to save her in the Season 1 finale of Arrow. * * *1. Oliver Queen ... The Green Arrow’s noble death during Crisis on Infinite Earths was a result of him recreating the multiverse. 15 Malcolm Merlyn 14. Robert Queen 13. Quentin Lance 12. Shado Gulong 11. Henry Allen10. Moira Queen 9. Nora Allen 8. Harrison Wells (Earth 19) 7. Eddie Thawne 6. Martin Stein5. Laurel Lance 4. Tommy Merlyn 3. Barry Allen (Earth-90) 2. Snart1. Oliver Queen Edited May 7, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo May 8, 2020 Share May 8, 2020 (edited) Here's How Stephen Amell Became The Co-Founder Of Nocking Point Wines BY RAZMIG PAPAZIAN MAY 07, 2020https://www.thethings.com/heres-how-stephen-amell-became-the-co-founder-of-nocking-point-wines/ Quote Stephen Amell is known for portraying Oliver Queen, and is also known by his alter ego name The Green Arrow. The character is based on the DC Comics and the series Arrow. The show lasted eight seasons between 2013 and 2019. The character also made several appearances in other DC series such as The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, and Supergirl. * * * The idea of the winery first began when both Stephen and Andrew were on a road trip from Los Angeles to Oakland in May 2012. Harding, who grew up in wine country, convinced Amell to make a stop in Paso Robles to do some wine-tasting, which turned out to be Stephen's first experience. They would eventually spend the next two days visiting more than a dozen wineries. After the road trip, they both decided to dive into the winery business. They spent the next few months working on the idea of having a unique kind of winery and their concept would soon be born when they decided on the name: Nocking Point Wines. As for the name, it was inspired by his DC action series; it's where you knock an arrow on the bow. * * *Most of their wines are named after celebrities such as Pacific Coast Pink (named after Emily Rickard's Felicity on Arrow), Right On Red (named after radio personality, and podcaster Adam Carolla). Edited May 8, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
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