tv echo January 22, 2020 Share January 22, 2020 (edited) Jen & Calli discussed 809 - I agreed with a lot of what they said about this episode... Watchover with Jen and Calli: Watchover Ep 66 - In Thru the Backdoor Jan. 21, 2020https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/watchover-with-jen-and-calli/e/66756483 Edited January 22, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 22, 2020 Share January 22, 2020 (edited) Review: “Green Arrow And The Canaries” Is A Jumbled Reintroduction To A New ‘Arrow’ Darryl Jasper Jan. 22, 2020https://sciencefiction.com/2020/01/22/review-green-arrow-and-the-canaries-is-a-jumbled-reintroduction-to-a-new-arrow/ Quote Using technology Cisco derived from Martian Manhunter’s psychic abilities, Laurel unceremoniously (and without permission) brings Mia up to speed on that lost lifetime. Regardless of her reasoning, it’s a pretty scummy thing to do, upending a future Mia had planned, and for what? To rescue Mia’s socialite friend Bianca Bertinelli (Raigan Harris, All-American, The Dead Girl’s Detective Agency), adopted daughter of Helena Bertinelli, aka the Huntress? ... * * * With the narrative beats out of the way, it’s time to talk about the best part of “Green Arrow”. Though Laurel and Dinah were fine in their own right, bonding like they never really did during their time working together on Arrow, Katherine McNamara owns this episode as Mia Queen. McNamara has come a long way from her scarcely believable tough girl act, becoming a three-dimensional character that I can’t help but root for. It’s difficult not to empathize with her as she deals with the unexpected weight thrust onto her shoulders by Laurel, something that nearly costs her a solid relationship with JJ. McNamara is the emotional lynchpin of every scene she’s in, a vital trait if she’s to succeed as the titular character. * * * Unfortunately, as good as McNamara was, she could not save “Green Arrow and the Canaries” from being a middling and somewhat jumbled reintroduction to an Arrow without Stephen Amell. The fight choreography suffers from the same overindulgence of long takes as the series has for years — they need to learn that ‘less is more’. Making matters worse are musical choices that may sound good to some at the club (not for me) but fail to complement the action. Mixed with a shaky narrative that isn’t given much time to marinate — this would have been much better as a two-episode arc or, at worse, given an extra 30 minutes —“Green Arrow and the Canaries” sputters along, though there are positive nuggets of what could be a promising new series. * * *McNamara is every bit as likable as Melissa Benoist and Ruby Rose, while potentially showing just a bit more acting range, but even she can’t outrun bad narratives that are more focused on the message than entertaining the masses (the same way other movies are more about spectacle than story). With that being said, I’m all-in on a Mia-centric series. As long as they get the right team in there with her, Green Arrow and the Canaries (should the series be called that) will be on my to-watch list whenever it premieres. Edited January 22, 2020 by tv echo 1 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 22, 2020 Share January 22, 2020 (edited) Review of 809 by Laura Hurley... Arrow Deserves A Spinoff, But Is Green Arrow And The Canaries The Way To Go? BY LAURA HURLEY JAN. 22. 2020https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2488899/arrow-deserves-a-spinoff-but-is-green-arrow-and-the-canaries-the-way-to-go Quote What Worked About Green Arrow & The Canaries “Green Arrow & the Canaries” is an effective backdoor pilot, in my opinion. It revealed existing characters’ new circumstances, set the stage for a conflict that can drive the story, added some friction between the leads to potentially keep things interesting (although more on that later), threw in a complicated romance that already has the makings of a seriously unique love triangle, and ended on a cliffhanger regarding the fate of a beloved character. Seriously, is there anybody who hates adult William? * * * The backdoor pilot also more or less honored the original series. Nobody ignored Oliver's sacrifice, Felicity's legacy is strong, William and Mia turned out okay, and there were plenty of Easter eggs to ideally keep even the most reluctant Arrow loyalists at least somewhat engaged. It didn’t even inundate viewers with newcomers, so fans had reason to pay attention. If Supernatural had aired a backdoor pilot like this, maybe it would have a spinoff now! As a backdoor effort to launch a new show, I’d even rank it above the Arrow/Flash two-parter that set up Legends of Tomorrow. * * *What Didn't Work About Green Arrow & The Canaries * * * My next issues with “Green Arrow & the Canaries” are admittedly biased, because the Canaries have never been my favorites. I never warmed to Earth-1 Laurel as Black Canary because she was rushed through the superhero journey to get a mask, and I’ve always disliked superpowers on Arrow when the hero was a non-superpowered archer, so Black Siren and Dinah's Black Canary weren't exactly making any personal Top 5 lists. So, Laurel snarking at Mia through her earpiece while Mia was trying to complete a mission didn’t work for me. The last thing Mia needed was to be distracted, and Laurel’s commentary didn’t feel appropriate as a veteran Team Arrow member trying to impart lessons. In fact, Laurel's commentary about Oliver and their relationship to Mia, who in one life grew up without her dad and in the other watched him die, felt unnecessarily cruel coming from somebody I was supposed to root for. Some friction within the new team was necessary, but not like what Laurel threw at Mia. * * *What Needs To Happen Next For Green Arrow & The Canaries Look, no pilot is ever perfect, and Arrow managed to overcome first introducing Oliver as a guy with abominable hair who cheated on Laurel with her sister (who seemingly died) and then trying to get viewers en masse to root for an Oliver/Laurel love story after what Oliver did to her. Green Arrow & the Canaries can make some tweaks and produce a show that rejuvenates the Arrow-verse and becomes a staple of the post-Arrow era. Arrow changed after its pilot, and I’d say for the better. There’s no reason to believe the spinoff (assuming it gets an order) couldn’t do the same. * * * What tweaks would I make? Selfishly, I’d love for Green Arrow & the Canaries to find a way to neutralize Laurel and Dinah’s powers at least some of the time. Just like Oliver’s abilities were overshadowed on his own show once metas started showing up, Mia might be overshadowed by the Canaries. This is an Arrow spinoff, so the Green Arrow shouldn’t be the least of three heroes. I also think Green Arrow & the Canaries would benefit from focusing on just one of those heroes to start. The project is already threatening to go in two or three different directions, and Laurel and Dinah have been side characters on Arrow. Mia has been regularly central to Arrow stories ever since the Season 7 flash-forwards got into gear, to the point that there were rumbles about a Mia spinoff almost as soon as she was introduced. She’s ready to anchor a spinoff set in 2040; Laurel and Dinah aren’t, and could use some time to grow into bigger roles than they had on Arrow. * * * Similarly, if Green Arrow & the Canaries wants me to root for Laurel, then it needs to direct her sharpest commentary at somebody other than Oliver’s daughter. Friction within a team can be engaging; Laurel bullying the young woman who inherited the mantle of the Arrow-verse’s first hero after upending her life isn’t necessarily fun to watch. One nice pep talk doesn’t outweigh everything she threw at Mia in the previous scenes. Edited January 22, 2020 by tv echo 1 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 22, 2020 Share January 22, 2020 (edited) Arrow: Season 8, Episode 9 - 'Green Arrow and the Canaries' Review BY JESSE SCHEEDEN 21 JAN 2020https://www.ign.com/articles/arrow-season-8-episode-9-green-arrow-the-canaries-review Quote The obvious criticism with this soft reboot of the 2040 setting is that it prevents viewers from getting full closure with the pre-Crisis conflict. A lot of that material goes unresolved here. But A) who really cares at this point? And B) with both Mia and JJ having their memories restored, we're still going to see ramifications from their pre-Crisis rivalry. If anything, this shake-up creates a more real and effective link between the two. In one life, they were bitter enemies. In the other, they were lovers. Now they have to reconcile the two. The revamped timeline also adds a new layer to Connor, who's become a much much darker and more troubled character. Presumably, we're seeing the unintended ramifications of Sara Diggle being restored to existence in Crisis. Because Dig and Lyla now have two children to raise, they probably never adopt Connor and never have that powerful influence over him as a child. In general, Arrow is doing a lot more than its sister shows to explore the psychological effects of heroes having their post-Crisis memories overwritten by pre-Crisis memories. Elsewhere, it's been like flipping a switch, whereas here the warring sets of memories create major emotional trauma. Maybe that's a discrepancy between shows, but it's easy enough to explain by assuming the process is much more painful and destructive because these characters have been living their new lives for 20 years. * * * All told, the flash-forward setting definitely carries a bit more weight and oomph than it did before. Whether that's enough to justify an ongoing series is another matter. Arrow has struggled enough just to keep the momentum going in brief, weekly vignettes. What happens when those vignettes become the main attraction? That's mostly where "Green Arrow and the Canaries" falls short as a backdoor pilot. We get some idea of the conflict fueling the spinoff series in its first season. There's a new threat to Star City, one seemingly fated to end in the city's destruction and Mia becoming a pariah. Unfortunately, that new enemy isn't developed well enough here. This episode is far too open-ended and anticlimactic on that front, which also leaves Arrow in a weird spot leading into its series finale. Edited January 22, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 22, 2020 Share January 22, 2020 (edited) Why We Loved Green Arrow and The Canaries By Jessica Mason Jan 22nd, 2020,https://www.themarysue.com/green-arrow-and-the-canaries-review/ Quote This gives McNamara a lot to work with as an actress. She’s playing a new Mia here—one that’s far softer and happier than the jaded, angry Mia Smoak we’ve known so far. Her new life also means she doesn’t necessarily want to be a hero, but the price and rewards of heroism are what this episode and show are all about. * * * There’s so much in the pilot that really works: the family legacy, the revamped setting, the small mysteries and the way it truly looks towards a new future. But what really clicks are the actresses and characters at the core. McNamara has proven on Arrow (and on Shadowhunters) that she can unquestionably carry a series, and she has stunning depth as this new Mia, and also can seriously kick ass. Harkavy is reinvigorated as this new Dinah and I really love where she’s gone and how she’s allowed to be the soft, fun, nurturing one in the trio. It suits her so well, as does her amazing dynamic and chemistry with Cassidy. Cassidy herself is also great, balancing snark and a little bit of heart as the former Black Siren and Mia’s second, tougher super-hero mom. All three of them work great, and of course, having worked together for a while certainly helps their dynamic. * * * This pilot set up a lot of mysteries and a big cliffhanger that are all screaming to be resolved, and I really hope the show gets picked up to series so they can do that. There are some things that weren’t perfect, of course—I’m not sure how compelling JJ is as a love interest or as a villain, but hopefully, he has some internal conflict going forward. I also want much more of Connor Hawke (Joseph David-Jones) who had such a great dynamic with Mia in the old future. Edited January 22, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 22, 2020 Share January 22, 2020 (edited) Arrow S08E09 Review By Deejay Dayton January 22, 2020http://www.comicbookbin.com/Arrow_S08E09_Review.html Quote I used the word “somehow” a lot in that explanation, didn’t I? Yeah, the set-up is a big pill to swallow. The show just rams it down, and then moves on to what it really wants to deal with. * * *I enjoyed McNamara’s performance as Mia, she does a good job making sense of the absurd twists the plot takes, and Katie Cassidy is great as the mouthy, pushy Laurel Lance. It’s funny, I found her the weakest part of Arrow when that series began, and had no interest in her as the sweet and noble Laurel. It wasn’t until that one was killed off and she returned as evil Laurel that she seemed to have any spark. Harkavny gets stuck playing the middle woman between the two, not a natural choice given how strong she had made Dinah Drake over the past few years. Edited January 22, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 23, 2020 Share January 23, 2020 (edited) Honestly, I think they have the same problem with E2 Laurel/Black Siren that, to a worse extent, The Walking Dead has with Negan - they're trying to redeem (and turn into a hero) an evil villain who did some pretty horrible, irredeemable acts in the past. Once Upon a Time also did this same thing with Regina/Evil Queen character and that show ended up literally splitting the character into two people, one with the evil parts and one with the good parts... ‘Arrow’ 8×09 Review: “Green Arrow and the Canaries” BY: RAQUEL ON: JANUARY 22, 2020https://fangirlish.com/2020/01/22/green-arrow-canaries-arrow-review/ Quote To my surprise, Laurel is among those who felt inspired by Dinah. I think the producers forget too often (if not always) that Laurel killed the supposed love of Dinah’s life for no good reason. If it squint a lot when I see them being best friends forever, it is even more shocking that Laurel tells Dinah that Dinah was an inspiration to her. Basically telling her that her change was due to her … especially when we know it was because of Quentin. There are quite a few inconsistencies here. But well, we accept might as well accept the octopus as a companion animal and “forget” the past between Laurel and Dinah. * * * It’s something laudable on Laurel’s part … but to make this fit, we have to believe that she was always good, and killed because she thought she couldn’t be anything else, she didn’t believe in herself; when she was actually killing for fun. So all this Laurel says is improbable at best … but, again, we need to accept it in order to move on without hurting our heads. * * * All this makes Mia try to get away, which leads to an argument with Laurel. In it, Laurel accuses her of selfishness and Mia does the same. I must say that here Laurel behaves horribly. Mia is not selfish for wanting to live her life, the life she has in that reality. She is only afraid, and does not want to fail her father, especially considering his sacrifice and that fear encompasses everything. When we are afraid we look for an exit, the easiest one … and for Mia that is to stay as is. Also, Laurel talking about selfishness, well …funny to say the least. That said, the scene continues … and it gets worse. Laurel dares to trivialize, the life that Mia leads, Oliver’s sacrifice and this is when Mia defends her father like a lioness. Her life will be whatever it is, but it is thanks to her father. She is alive thanks to him. And she doesn’t want to fail him. And I get up to applaud Mia. She is now realizing that Oliver really just wanted to see her happy, and would not like to see Mia feel that emptiness she feels. But Laurel has no right to trivialize Oliver’s sacrifice and basically tell her that it was not worth it for Oliver to die for her, for his daughter. Especially because that supposed moral lesson comes from a murderer. I understand that Mia needed a wake-up call to realize what she was doing. But they didn’t need Laurel to act like a bitch for it. Not if they want us to like her. * * * Mia is who she is: a hero. It is in her. In her veins, in her blood. It is her essence. And she can’t escape it anymore. Star City is her city, and she is its protector. She is Green Arrow. Mia, finally, realizes that it is true. That is what she is. And she puts on the suit that her father left her as a legacy. And suddenly, that emptiness she had felt all her life fades away. She is complete. That said, it has been a bit forced to see Laurel as a confidant and moral reference for Dinah and Mia. * * * Now, JJ will either once again become a villain, but now Mia will be at his side, safer than ever after having doubted, after having proven that she was wrong and almost losing him because of it … or JJ can choose to resist taking the same path again because he loves Mia so much that it surpasses everything. It is clear that they will play with this love triangle between Mia and the Diggle brothers, and this dichotomy between the present they live and the past. This intrigue is very well posed, this opening of possibilities that leaves us wanting to know how this story ends. * * * In conclusion, I really didn’t expect much from this pilot. But they surprised me for good. I have felt entertained throughout the episode and it has even seemed short. They have managed to meet the formula of the villain of the week (which, in addition, should serve as a center to position the characters) and, at the same time, be able to engage the audience, showing at the end that everything is a consequence of a larger plan, with a unknown villain … connecting with Arrow through William’s totem and its Chinese letters. Connecting with the mother series from which this new show is born. It has been quite intelligent and leaves us wanting to know more. Of course, it is not a perfect product, nothing is, and some aspects need to be polished. Basically the character of Laurel. But it leaves a good taste in the mouth and they have overcome the challenge. This show has possibilities for the depth of its protagonist (Mia), the relationship between the characters and the game that can give the dilemma between their past lives and their present. The episode leaves us wanting to give the new series a chance. Edited January 23, 2020 by tv echo 3 Link to comment
tv echo January 23, 2020 Share January 23, 2020 (edited) No spoilers... Here's their full 809 reaction & review video... Arrow 8x9 REACTION!! "Green Arrow & The Canaries" Blind Wave Jan. 22, 2020 Edited January 23, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
Josh371982 January 23, 2020 Share January 23, 2020 Its clear they will drive me away from the Arrow Spinoff if Connor and JJ are indeed brothers in the new reality(I never heard that confirmed) and they still insist in a godawful unneeded Love triangle with Mia. I want to continue to love Mia not watch her in a gross triangle with BROTHERS and have both on a string making me despise her JJ and Connor 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 24, 2020 Share January 24, 2020 (edited) Arrow - Green Arrow & the Canaries - Review Posted by Lisa Macklem at January 23, 2020https://www.spoilertv.com/2020/01/arrow-green-arrow-canaries-review.html Quote There are some good fights – and some dreadful fashion and make up choices as the episode unfolds. In the end, of course, Mia decides to live a double life – she’ll marry JJ and keep him in the dark while she takes up the mantle of the Green Arrow. Dinah also decides to get back in the hero game and Laurel will be sticking around too. Dinah is ready to start training new Canaries. Just me or is it a little weird for Laurel and Dinah to be total besties? Trevor introduces a new big bad – who also happens to be a woman – and he has a tattoo of the Hosen. So clearly a link to the League of Assassins? Purgatory? I was mostly disappointed that William (Ben Lewis) had very little to do in the episode as he has really been the break out star of this storyline for me. But then, the men are out… We get a final scene with him and Mia at a monument to Oliver. He tells her the papers think he is the new Green Arrow and pulls out the Hosen, which sparks Mia being able to identify the tattoo on Trevor – just before they are both darted and William is dragged off. Meanwhile, JJ is also attacked and someone gives him back his memories – but of course, his memories show him he was evil. Will he join the Deathstrokes now and keep Mia in the dark? As much as I’ve always loved Katie Cassidy and I’ve enjoyed Ben Lewis, I can’t say that this pilot really did much for me. It was the chemistry between the three original team Arrow members that hooked me in the beginning – David Ramsey, Emily Bett Rickards, and Stephen Amell. It’s that trio that I miss and this just didn’t fill the void for me. I have to wonder if Grant Gustin would need to worry more if his show wasn’t the top rated CW show? .... Edited January 24, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 24, 2020 Share January 24, 2020 (edited) KM did a lengthy interview for StyleCaster's January Digital Cover story - there's a video clip from this interview at the first article link below; also, you can read the feature story and see pics at the second article link below... https://stylecaster.com/arrow-kat-mcnamara-interview/ https://stylecaster.com/arrow-finale-spoilers-kat-mcnamara-spinoff/ Quote "Arrow" was McNamara's second audition after she learned that "Shadowhunters" was cancelled. She didn’t know what the part was, but there was something about it that interested her. “The sides were dummy sides, so it was a made-up character just for the audition." "It was, like, a rookie cop who had a dark past and a bit of a dry sense of humor,” she recalls. “I was like, ‘Oh. I’ll get to do something different. Something more structured. I’ll get to learn what cops go through.’” After she booked the role, McNamara received a call from the series’ showrunner, Beth Schwartz, who told her that her character wasn’t a cop but was actually the daughter of Oliver Queen (Green Arrow) and Felicity Smoak, the show’s central romance. It was a lot of pressure. What she thought was a simple guest starring role was now Mia Smoak (a.k.a. Blackstar), Oliver and Felicity’s adult daughter from the future who was trained by supervillain Nyssa al Ghul and takes on the mantle of Green Arrow after her father’s heroic death. Mia, who was introduced in season 7 and became a main character in the eighth and final season, is also the lead of "Arrow"s upcoming spinoff, "Green Arrow and the Canaries." The spinoff, which will be teased in "Arrow"s series finale and include heroes like Laurel Lance (Black Siren) and Dinah Drake (Blake Canary), will also feature the Arrowverse’s first all-female superhero team. Edited January 24, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 24, 2020 Share January 24, 2020 (edited) I Will Go Down With This Ship: Olicity Edition BY: ALYSSA BARBIERI ON: JANUARY 24, 2020https://fangirlish.com/2020/01/24/i-will-go-down-with-this-ship-olicity-edition/ Quote There are too many moments to discuss when it comes to Olicity. Too many adjectives one could use to describe just how epic their love story is. But as Arrow is nearing the end of its eight-season journey, I find myself reflecting on the magic that was Oliver and Felicity — and how it forever changed the dynamic of the Arrow landscape and set a standard for OTPs. IT WAS RED ... From the moment Oliver Queen walked into Felicity Smoak’s office, the entire landscape of Arrow changed forever. Oliver and Felicity’s lives, they changed forever. Fans like me, ones that were waiting for something to invest in, our lives were changed forever. No one could’ve imagined what this fated encounter would entail, and it was something truly special to watch unfold over the years. In the two episodes that led up to this meeting in Felicity’s office, Oliver was a unsympathetic character that was hard to root for. He was dark, broody, didn’t seem to have any light left in him. Until he laid eyes on one Felicity Smoak, and suddenly there was light in his eyes. Suddenly, I saw the hero that I was supposed to root for. And I never looked back. So much has been made of this encounter even eight years later. Look no further than season 3 to see the significance of the moment, as on Olicity’s first date, Oliver remembered the exact pen color Felicity was chewing on when he walked into her office spawning the epic line: “It was red.” * * *SOULMATES * * * You have to believe it was fairly early on in the series — what a couple episodes featuring Felicity — when the producers realized they’d captured lightning in a bottle with Oliver and Felicity. It didn’t take long for a one-time guest star to become a series regular and significantly impact the show moving forward. Season 2 was when you really felt the producers were making a concerted effort to set up Oliver and Felicity. Those once-organic moments between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards soon became more intentional in the writing. You felt the show was setting up Olicity to be the epic love story that shows can only dream about. And lord, did they get that epic romance. * * *MARRIED BEFORE THEY WERE MARRIED ... Some of the most fun I’ve had in the Olicity fandom was getting to experience the joy that was Season 2, where Oliver and Felicity were in love with each other before they even realized it. It was like a secret that the entire fandom kept together. We knew we were watching them fall in love even if they didn’t realize it themselves. Long before Oliver and Felicity officially tied the knot in Season 6, they were married as partners in the hero business. Oliver and Felicity have never tried to be anything but themselves with each other, and they’ve both respected who the other was in the process. Thus, we got to see them just behave how they would normally, and it created some “married” moments between the two in the form of bickering or longing glances or synchronized movements. * * *PARTNERS IN LIFE AND LOVE ... The evolution of Oliver and Felicity’s relationship is one of my favorite things about them, and it goes a long way to showing the longevity of their relationship. Oliver and Felicity started off as co-workers, where they got to know each other. They became partners, where they learned to trust each other with their lives. They became friends, where they grew to care about each other’s well-being…perhaps more than friends do. They became lovers, where they learned to love each other through better or worse. * * * But the fundamental aspect of their relationship is trust. Trust, which was something that had to be earned. Trust, which was something that was lost. Trust, which was something that had to be earned once again. But it’s that trust in each other and that understanding that make their love so beautiful. You can’t stop what’s meant to be. TRUE LOVE DIDN’T COME EASY .* * * From the start, Oliver and Felicity’s love was something that wasn’t promised. Looking back now, when we know the show chose to explore them romantically, there were many obstacles that stood in between of their happiness. Some of them were plot-driven and some producer-made obstacles that felt out of place. And yet, Oliver and Felicity survived them all. * * * In fact, all of the struggles they’ve been through have them stronger — both as individuals and as a couple. And you know what, when you work for something, it makes it all the more special. True love never comes easy. And Olicity are a testament to that. TRUE HEROES ... When it comes down to it, Oliver and Felicity were heroes in their own right. While Oliver was the Green Arrow — and he has proven himself to be the self-sacrificing hero that this Arrowverse deserves — Felicity has also been a different kind of hero — a hero that doesn’t need to kick physical ass to make a difference. For eight years, Oliver and Felicity have been on their journey to find love with each other, but they’ve also been on individual hero journeys. Everything that they’ve experienced — all of the hardships, the struggles and the good times — they’ve shaped who they are. Their desire to want to do good for their city — and the world — also serves to make them even more endearing to each other. They’re soulmates in their desire to do good, and it was always a matter of when they were going to be together. Now that they are, there’s nothing left but eternity for them to celebrate their love. Edited January 24, 2020 by tv echo 3 Link to comment
tv echo January 24, 2020 Share January 24, 2020 (edited) Did Legends Always Get Lit? Is Million Little Things Kid Too Wise? How Did This Is Us Lack Security? And More Qs! By Vlada Gelman, Matt Webb Mitovich, Michael Ausiello, Kimberly Roots, Andy Swift, Dave Nemetz, Rebecca Iannucci, Ryan Schwartz, Nick Caruso and Charlie Mason / January 24 2020, https://tvline.com/2020/01/24/legends-of-tomorrow-season-5-bong-pot-smoking-tv-questions-answers/ Quote 12 | Why would the Arrow spinoff’s Zoe need to “crash” Mia’s graduation party, if they obviously are friends? Who do you think the mysterious “she” is? (Please don’t tell us the conspicuously absent Sara Diggle has gone to the dark side!) How did no one on-set catch Katie Cassidy mispronouncing J’onn J’onzz as “John Johns”? And lastly, if Green Arrow and the Canaries goes to series, Laurel and Dinah will totally become a ‘ship, right? Edited January 24, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 24, 2020 Share January 24, 2020 (edited) REVIEW: ‘Arrow,’ Season 8, Episode 9 – “Green Arrow & the Canaries” 01/22/2020 - by Charlie Ashbyhttps://butwhythopodcast.com/2020/01/22/review-arrow-season-8-episode-9-green-arrow-the-canaries/ Quote After the devastating heartbreak that was Crisis, it could have been extremely easy for the writers of the show to spend the remaining two episodes of the season devoted to being sad about the elephant in the room – the death of the main hero, Oliver Queen. What the team behind Arrow have done is celebrated Oliver’s legacy and sacrifice in the best way possible, by showing the positive repercussions he has had on both his city and family. Katherine’s performance as Mia is on-point this week and the actress does a fantastic job as distinguishing ‘Mia Smoak’ from ‘Mia Queen’ and both characters’ differing backgrounds. The episode also does a fairly good job of making sure that the character developments and relationships from the original timeline still matter via the use of a ‘J’onn’ ring which restores memories from Pre-Crisis. * * * ... One of the most interesting of these new mysteries has to be Dinah’s place in 2040, having essentially been forgotten by the denizens of Star City and the world. Instead, Dinah finds herself waking up in the future and deciding to make the most out of this new life by setting up a bar. This interesting narrative allows for Juliana to dive into who Dinah is for the first time, showing off her incredible singing and piano-playing skills in the process – a nice nod to the comics! Katie Cassidy’s portrayal of Laurel is once again superb and it’s clear how much these actors enjoy working with each other and the material that they’ve been given. ... The core trio of Mia, Laurel, and Dinah help to fill the hole that Oliver has left as the main character, with Mia being a worthy successor to the mantle of the Green Arrow. The only major issue with this episode is the fact that while there are subtle differences here and there, the show still fundamentally feels like Arrow. Hopefully, if the series is greenlit, the show will gain its own identity while continuing the legacy that Arrow has set up. * * * Without delving too much into spoilers, the writers have successfully managed to create an interesting narrative and series of big twists which leave the audience begging for more. The direction of the episode is also a highlight, featuring some kickass fight scenes and some of the best introduction shots in the Arrowverse – a highlight being the reveal of future ‘Star City’ in all its glory. Edited January 24, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 26, 2020 Share January 26, 2020 (edited) It's all about Arrow... Melissa Benoist, Grant Gustin, and More Arrowverse Stars Pay Tribute to Arrow's Legacy BY LINDSAY MACDONALDJAN 24, 2020 https://www.tvguide.com/news/the-flash-supergirl-stars-say-goodbye-to-arrow/ Quote "It's just an amazing privilege to be part of the Arrowverse, and it's always going to be called that. It'll never not be the Arrowverse," Chyler Leigh told TV Guide on the red carpet for the Supergirl 100th episode. "They really did, they paved the way. They set an incredible foundation for us to be able to come and do what we do and stand among a whole bunch of people in so much leather."z * * * "Stephen started all of this," Melissa Benoist said. "And the legacy he's leaving is pretty incredible. You know, we almost have our own Justice League on television, and the universe is massive and he was always at the helm. So it'll be different without him and an adjustment without him there and without all the Arrow people there." "Stephen's always been so great to me, personally, and to just the world as a whole," Grant Gustin said. "He's definitely been the leader of the Arrowverse, and I don't want to have to take up that place. They'll be missed." Edited January 26, 2020 by tv echo 1 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 27, 2020 Share January 27, 2020 (edited) The Legacy of Arrow: How The CW Underdog Changed an Entire Network BY KAITLIN THOMAS JAN 27, 2020https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-series-finale-legacy-the-cw/ Quote Although we had no way of knowing it at the time, when Arrow debuted on The CW in the fall of 2012, it marked a turning point for the young network, which had just launched in 2006 after The WB and UPN ceased operations. Over the course of the show's eight-season tenure, which will come to an end Tuesday, the superhero series starring Stephen Amell as millionaire playboy turned arrow-slinging vigilante Oliver Queen significantly altered the trajectory and perception of The CW. It's hard to imagine that ordering Arrow to series was ever considered a bold move for The CW, but the success of the show was never a sure thing. When the DC series launched, The CW was known more for — and I say this lovingly — melodramatic, female-centric programs like Gossip Girl and 90210 or the wacky antics of dramedies like Hart of Dixie than it was for comic book fare. This was despite the fact Smallville had just ended a 10-season run, split between The WB and The CW, a year prior. Meanwhile, there was no guarantee that the growing success of Marvel's feature films — The Avengers had come out just five months earlier — would translate to the small screen, especially on the fifth broadcast network and for a character who was not terribly well known outside the realm of DC Comics. Yet despite the odds, Arrow was an undeniable success for The CW. Over the course of its eight seasons, the series increased male viewership for the network; in 2017, CW President Mark Pedowitz said network viewership was 50 percent male, up from 30 percent when he started, in 2011. It also launched multiple spin-offs and anchored the Arrowverse, a shared cinematic universe that now includes The Flash, DC's Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman, Supergirl, and Black Lightning, the last two of which were not originally part of the show's extended DC Comics world. Additionally, Arrow was also the cornerstone of an annual multi-show crossover that eventized television in a way not seen in a long time, with viewers, many of whom have not watched every CW superhero show, tuning in to see what might happen. This year, the big surprise was Ezra Miller's version of Barry Allen/The Flash from DC's cinematic universe appearing during the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover event, thus marking the first time the films have crossed over with the TV brand in a real and major way. However, even though the network benefited greatly from having Arrow as one of the programs leading its lineup these past eight years, the reality is that its success also resulted in a limited variety of programming being offered. The bold, creative choices that characterized the first half of the 2010s have given way to rubber stamping, both in terms of the types of shows the network develops and its renewal strategy. This leads to stability and consistency, and while knowing a show will likely end on its own terms is comforting for viewers, the result is still a network that, despite expanding original programming to six days a week in 2018 and increasing the number of original series it airs throughout the year, looks increasingly similar. This doesn't translate to bringing in potential new viewers — or retaining those who've grown tired of the superhero genre. * * * In contrast, only Legends of Tomorrow feels distinct among the superhero shows; the team-up series started out as more of the same but eventually leaned into its weirder and wilder tendencies, and it flourished as a result. The rest of the Arrowverse shows often follow similar narrative beats but with different characters leading the way, so it's difficult to make them feel different or nuanced even when they should arguably stand out, whether for the work they're doing for representation, such as Batwoman and Black Lightning giving voice to the LGBTQ community, or the relevant cultural issues they highlight, like Supergirl being an allegory for immigration. This is just one small piece of a much larger issue, though, which is that original programming is almost non-existent on The CW. With the exception of midseason dramedy In the Dark, football drama All American, and the outgoing Supernatural — one of the only series that has defined The CW more than Arrow — every show on The CW is either an adaptation, a spin-off of an adaptation, or a reboot. ... Something needs to change. * * * But it doesn't have to be that way. The CW, much like it was in 2012, is again at a turning point. Without its Golden Globe-winning comedies to offer it prestige, and without Arrow (and soon Supernatural) to anchor its lineup, the network is approaching a crossroads. Peak TV and the rise of streaming services over the last decade have no doubt made things increasingly more difficult for networks like The CW to succeed — viewers are more selective than ever about what they choose to watch, as they simultaneously feel overwhelmed by the choices and burnt out by the prospect of having to keep up with everything — but The CW has proven before that it has what it takes to proudly and triumphantly stand out. As the network bids farewell to Arrow, my hope is that it is now looking for the next Arrow, not in another costumed superhero drama, but in an exciting and fresh series that will usher in a new era and transform, once again, how we look at and perceive The CW and everything it is and can be. In other words, the network needs to listen to its own tagline and actually dare to defy. Edited January 27, 2020 by tv echo 3 Link to comment
Starfish35 January 27, 2020 Share January 27, 2020 From TVLine: Arrow's 25 Best Fight Scenes Ever — From the Pilot to, Yes, the Series Finale Quote On the occasion of Arrow‘s series finale (titled “Fadeout” and airing Tuesday, Jan. 28 at 9/8c, following a one-hour preview special), TVLine invited stunt coordinator-turned-producer and director James Bamford — who this season alone has helmed the premiere, the action-packed “Purgatory,” and the series finale itself — to survey the 170 episodes gone by and offer up his list of the Top 25 Fights. Gallery direct access Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 (edited) Belated review of 808... Edited January 28, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 No real spoilers... Arrow departs for good, but David Ramsey still has a few items on his wish list Allison Shoemaker January 28, 2020https://tv.avclub.com/arrow-departs-for-good-but-david-ramsey-still-has-a-fe-1841220490 At the Television Critics Association last August, The A.V. Club asked Ramsey what hopes he had for John Diggle in this final season, and if there’s any chance of Digg showing up on another show, perhaps another vaguely green one. The A.V. Club: What’s left on your wish list for John Diggle? Anything you want to see him do before the show ends? David Ramsey: Yeah, I think we have to settle what happens with his kids, with J.J. and Connor, the son he adopts. I think we have to see what happens with his marriage to Lyla Michaels, who’s now the leader of A.R.G.U.S.—the new Amanda Waller, for all intents and purposes. And I think we have to find out what’s going on with Lantern. Those are all questions that will be answered, by the way. AVC: Would you do a Green Lantern show, if asked? DR: The right one, absolutely. I think that’s a great character. But it’s an expensive show, a pricey show. It’s like, “Anything I can think of? Great!” And boom, that’s $5 million, right there. AVC: Has the way you play this character changed over the years? Do you approach him any differently? DR: There’s a sound, a kind of voice that came out of Diggle that I didn’t know existed until we were on season two. Other than that, I don’t think there’s a different way I played him. I was always dialed into him being Oliver Queen’s Lifer, the one that continues to remind him of his humanity. I was really dialed into that. But yeah, there was a voice that came out of Diggle that I kind of found after season two. Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 Arrow star David Ramsey is excited to see someone new play Diggle one day By Chancellor Agard January 28, 2020https://ew.com/tv/2020/01/28/arrow-david-ramsey-series-finale-diggle/ “I think John Diggle is someone I admire very much, personally,” Ramsey told EW in a recent interview for SiriusXM’s Superhero Insider ahead of Arrow‘s series finale. “Personally, I think he’s probably one of the most loyal and honest people, and committed people, you could probably ever meet in fiction and non-fiction. There’s that. Without getting too highfalutin about it all, I think he’s a great character to aspire to be. He was great to delve into.” * * * “He expanded in ways that we had not anticipated. He was easily a character that from the pilot he could have been killed off or written off, and just kind of kept on growing and endearing himself to fans, and people fell in love with the guy,” said Ramsey, who also became a director during the show’s run. “I’m not used to any of this. I’m not used to it. I’m not used to people stopping you in the street or people wanting to take pictures or even interviews like this. It’s still odd to me. The whole phenomenon of Arrow and Oliver Queen and John Diggle and Felicity Smoak, all these characters, it’s still a bit bewildering to me just how this magic has happened. To a certain degree, it’ll still be with me, but also to a certain degree, the pieces that aren’t, I’ll miss.” * * * “I cannot wait for that,” he said. “I can’t wait to five, 10, 15 years down the road [when] there’s a reboot or something happens and you watch this character evolve through the eyes of some other actor or actress. Who knows what happens! I would love to see that, and I think that’s what it’s all about. That’s part of the stories that we tell. We bring our own experiences to these characters. And again, without getting too lofty with it, I think that’s part of the magic of of why we watch television.” Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 (edited) Farewell To Arrow, The TV Show That Legit Got Me This Job BY LAURA HURLEY JAN. 28. 2020https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2489196/farewell-to-arrow-the-tv-show-that-legit-got-me-this-job Quote Has Arrow been perfect? Certainly not, and I’ve probably poked fun at Arrow at least as much as I’ve praised it. I have a well-documented hatred of Oliver’s flashback hair, regularly refer to Lazarus Pits as “magical pools of resurrection juice,” still haven’t forgiven Oliver for lying to Felicity about William, and will never understand why I was ever supposed to root for Oliver/Laurel after how they started. And don’t even get me started on magic and metas on Arrow! * * *What Arrow Brought To Television In The Beginning Arrow is the show that proved back in 2012 that audiences were willing to suspend their disbelief for a new superhero series, even if it was something dark and gritty rather than the second coming of Smallville on The CW. Green Arrow wasn’t exactly the best-known of the DC Comics heroes, and even I’ll admit that the pilot and early days of Arrow were basically Batman Begins if Christian Bale’s Batman was an archer who killed people. The show's early success proved viewers would watch a superhero without superpowers who broke some of the rules held dear by the likes of Batman and Superman, and Stephen Amell put in the physical work to sell Oliver rampaging through Star(ling) City. So how, if Season 1 started all about Batman Begins-esque Oliver, did Diggle and Felicity become so important? Well, Arrow may have begun with one man’s quest, but I'd argue that it didn’t really come together until Oliver formed a team with people who knew his secret. Tommy may have been his best friend and Laurel may have been the woman he idealized, but Oliver developed as a character when he had people in his life he didn't have to lie to. The original Team Arrow of Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity was so successful that it arguably created a template for the solo superhero series that would follow. Is it any coincidence that Barry basically woke up to his own Team Flash on The Flash? I also want to highlight original Team Arrow because Diggle and Felicity’s consistent roles as the two most important people to Oliver’s journey from the first season to the last (even accounting for Emily Bett Rickards’ absence in Season 8 ) demonstrate Arrow’s ability to succeed without sticking religiously to source material. I didn’t have a Green Arrow comics background when I started this series, so I naturally gravitated toward what connected with me as a viewer (other than John Barrowman): Team Arrow. Diggle was the brother and brother-in-arms Oliver needed and, as viewers ultimately learned, vice versa. Felicity proved her worth to Team Arrow before she even knew Oliver was the Hood, and as for their relationship… Well, I tend to define a TV pairing as having romantic chemistry if there’s ever a point when I think they’re going to kiss even though it’s an extremely inappropriate time for kissing, and I got that with Stephen Amell as Oliver and Emily Bett Rickards as Felicity. Arrow became a comics-based show rather than a comics-reliant show, largely thanks to original Team Arrow. * * *What Arrow Leaves Behind On the one hand, Arrow probably leaves behind a whole lot of fans who are disgruntled about how “Crisis on Infinite Earths” changed vital parts of Oliver’s eight-season journey in one fell swoop, not to mention all the other other fan issues that will undoubtedly not be resolved by the time the final credits roll. If my years of covering Arrow have taught me anything, it’s that there is definitely no pleasing everybody. On the other hand, Arrow leaves behind a powerful legacy that won’t be forgotten any time soon and could well power The CW for the foreseeable future. After all, an almost shocking number of the shows on The CW wouldn’t exist if not for Arrow. There’s a whole Arrow-verse now. * * *Will I ever take Laurel’s “journey” to becoming Black Canary after a handful of boxing lessons seriously? I very highly doubt it. Was I disappointed that the “Crisis” reset didn’t give me Starling City back? Of course. Are there parts of the series that I chose to ignore here for the sake of nostalgia rather than critique? You bet. But I’ve enjoyed the Arrow ride, and hope the Arrow-verse continues to honor its founding series and hero. Edited January 28, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 (edited) THE 9 BEST ARROW MOMENTS OF ALL TIME Trent Moore January 27, 2020https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/arrow-9-best-moments-series-end Quote And a preface before we dive in: There are way more huge deaths, fights, battles, and touching moments than just nine. So that means we weren't able to include all of them. Does that mean Laurel's death, or Quentin's death, or Roy's arrest, or Moira's death (boy there were a lot of deaths!) weren't important? Of course not. They were huge and helped shape the show into the monster hit it became. But, we wanted to keep it tight — so here are the nine best moments to cry, fist pump, or shoot your air bow over as Oliver and the gang take a final bow. * * *It begins (Season 1, Episode 1) Every great story has to start somewhere, and despite a few hiccups here and there, the Arrow pilot was near-perfect. It introduced the major players (sans Felicity, who didn't show up until a few episodes later), the crux of Oliver’s mission, and set the tone for a series that would go on to inspire an entire schedule full of superhero shows. Seeing Oliver suit up and take out baddies for the first time kicked off a decade of butt-kicking. * * *Oliver realizes his love for Felicity (Season 2, Episode 23) As comic fans are well aware, the epic love story of the Green Arrow comic books is between Oliver and Laurel/Dinah Lance. So when some instant chemistry developed between Oliver and his occasional tech support helper Felicity, it threw an interesting wrench into the series plan. Those flirtations came to a head in the Season 2 finale, as Oliver declared his love for Felicity, but only as a ruse and part of a trap to catch Slade. It was a touching, raw moment (even if part of it was for show). Of course, it all eventually turned out to be true. It was the first bit of payoff for the relationship that would become foundational to the series. Put simply, it was the birth of Olicity. It begins (Season 1, Episode 1) Oliver fails the city, and Tommy (Season 1, Episode 23) Slade takes Star City (Season 2, Episode 23)Oliver realizes his love for Felicity (Season 2, Episode 23) The first Arrow/The Flash crossover (Season 3, Episode 8 ) Oliver vs. Ra's al Ghul (Season 3, Episode 9) Episode 100 (Season 5, Episode 8 ) Constantine helps save Oliver's soul (Season 4, Episode 5) Oliver's death to save the multiverse (Crisis on Infinite Earths Part 1) Edited January 28, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 (edited) This is my last time visiting the TV Fanatic site, so I had to read this article - just for laughs (actually, it's not as bad as past articles at that site have been)... Arrow Has Had a Lot of Memorable Moments. Let's Discuss Before Tonight's Finale! Leora W at January 28, 2020 https://www.tvfanatic.com/2020/01/arrow-has-had-a-lot-of-memorable-moments-lets-discuss-before-ton/ Quote And of course, Laurel calling Oliver out on screwing her sister and getting her killed as only Laurel can. * * * We didn't meet original character and series regular Felicity Smoak until a few episodes into Arrow. Nobody could have predicted how important she would become, but she was likable and quirky, babbling and chewing her famous red pen. * * * When Oliver came clean to Felicity, it was out of necessity because he had been shot and he needed help. However, they later established that Oliver always intended to bring Felicity into the fold. He had already gone to her with some unbelievable excuses, and she had always rendered aid. He did his homework on Felicity, and he knew he could trust her. Both at the time and eight seasons later, we can say with certainty that he was right to trust her. Where would Arrow be without Felicity Smoak? * * * Come to think of it, Laurel's reconciliation with Oliver on Arrow Season 1 Episode 22 was pretty memorable too. Laurel wrapping her legs around Olllie's body while Radioactive by Imagine Dragons plays in the background? How's that for epic? Not to mention steamy. * * * Laurel and Felcitiy's roles also changed a lot. Laurel learned the truth about Ollie and was totally supportive of his fight. But fans of the comics were surprised when Oliver revealed that he returned the crush his awkward sidekick had on him. Sure, it was all a lie to trick Slade, but then Oliver asked Felicity out and kissed her, so ... * * *Felicity became love interest number one, and Laurel had to realize her potential as something other than the love of Oliver Queen's life. Too bad the show didn't know how to do that. After Sara Lance got killed (again), Laurel rose from the flames of grief as The Black Canary. And can we just talk about that for a minute? Dinah Laurel Lance was always supposed to be The Black Canary. The comics tell us as much. The show dropped the ball with Laurel. They gave Sara a better Canary backstory. Laurel also started to struggle with addiction and became somewhat less likable. When she took up The Black Canary mantle, things looked promising, and her fans were glad she was finally living up to her comic book potential. It's too bad that didn't last, either. * * * In return for saving his sister, Oliver had to agree to be Ra's successor, but not before one hot, steamy night with the woman he loves. Every Olicity fan lived for this scene and remembers it well. * * * He was glad to have Sara back, but right Ollie only had eyes for Felicity. After a little bit of drama and lead up, Oliver publicly declared his love, proposing to Felicity on Christmas in front of all of Star City. And she said yes! * * * The honeymoon period of their engagement was short-lived because the season's baddie caused an "accident," leaving Felicity paralyzed. It was sad for a minute that Felicity couldn't walk. She and Oliver had to overcome it, which was all angsty. But then they found a miracle cure making the whole thing a little less epic and a little less memorable. Like, remember when Felicity was paralyzed for a few episodes? Unfortunately, when Felicity foundout about Oliver's secret son, she walked away from him, literally. That was the moment when she gained the ability to walk again. There was something kind of poignant in that. Her first steps were to leave him, and a moment that should have been filled with joy was filled with heartbreak for Olicity fans everywhere. People expected Felicity to be worse than paralyzed, given the show had been flashing forward to a funeral. As it turned out, Laurel Lance AKA The Black Canary, got a sword to the gut it a gut-wrenching scene. * * * She said her goodbyes to Oliver from a hospital bed, telling him he was always the love of her life, even if she wasn't his. Everything from Laurel's farewell to her funeral to her gravestone was memorable because Laurel deserved better, and nobody saw it coming. With Olicity on the outs, Laurel dead, and everyone from Diggle to Thea leaving Starling, there was a little less memorable going on. * * *Arrow Season 6 had some sweet moments, mostly family feels with Oliver and his son and sometimes Felicity. * * * The much-anticipated Olicity wedding was not actually on Arrow because it happened during the yearly crossover on Legends of Tomorrow Season 3 Episode 8, but the reception was on Arrow Season 6 Episode 9. * * * Quentin's death was devastating, but Earth II Laurel's redemption was what fans had been waiting for since the first Black Canary was done wrong. It was one of the best arcs the show ever did. * * * Felicity went a little dark, nearly killing a man and getting stopped by her new bestie. Earth II Laurel. This friendship was epic and memorable, as was Felicity's darkness coming to the fore. * * * After an epic shawshank showdown at Slabside, Olicity had a nice little reunion outside the prison. * * * The search for the what and why happened of what happened to Felicity led William to cage-fighter Blackstar who was none other than Mia Smoak, daughter of Oliver and Felicity. * * *Mia is a badass, as much her father's daughter as William is Feilicty's son. She's the fighter and William is the techie, but it isn't just the empowering gender role-reversal that makes their scenes so phenomenal. Edited January 28, 2020 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
Trisha January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, tv echo said: This is my last time visiting the TV Fanatic site, so I had to read this article - just for laughs (actually, it's not as bad as past articles at that site have been)... Bless you @tv echo for all these years of saving me from having to visit/give clicks to TV Fanatic and IGN. You did god's work!! 2 7 Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 (edited) Yeah, good luck with that (maybe if you read really fast)... 6 things to read before the Arrow series finale By Chancellor Agard January 28, 2020 at 09:24 AM ESThttps://ew.com/tv/2020/01/28/arrow-series-finale-preview/ Quote Ahead of what’s guaranteed to be an emotional conclusion to a series that spawned an entire shared universe, EW has gathered together six articles that delve into Arrow‘s impressive journey and will get you ready for the ending. Check them out below. How Arrow saved the TV superhero — and why it had to end: ... In EW’s first monthly issue, star Stephen Amell and executive producers Greg Berlanti, Beth Schwartz, and Marc Guggenheim walked us through the show’s unexpected evolution from a risky, comic book-y pilot to a shared universe-spawning, network-defining series. Plus, Amell offers a small tease about the series finale. (Read it here.) Stephen Amell reflects on his Arrow journey: ‘I f—ing care a lot about it’ ... In July 2019, EW sat down with Amell for a long in-depth chat about his time on the show. The star opened up about deciding to hang up the hood after seven seasons, his audition, how he’s grown as an actor, and more. “The biggest thing I’ll take away from doing the show is my kiddo really admires what I do,” said Amell. “She comes to the set all the time, and I know that won’t last forever, but she sits there in video village, and she wears her cans, and she calls action every once in a while. Honestly, that’s the coolest thing.” (Read it here.) Every episode of Arrow ranked, from worst to best ... From crossovers to deaths to resurrections and more bone-crunching fights than you can count, the past 160 episodes have seen it all, and one of the joys of this show is watching how it has evolved over time. But which hour is the best, and which is the worst? Ahead of the final season, EW rewatched every single episode to answer that question. Remember to check back on Monday to find out where the final season’s episodes fall in the ranking! (Here’s the current ranking of the past 169 episodes.) Arrow producer recalls the happy accident that led to Deathstroke’s debut ... Guggenheim reveals the surprising stories behind the introductions of Manu Bennett as Slade Wilson, a.k.a Deathstroke, and Colton Haynes as Roy Harper. Spoiler alert: Neither one of them were part of the original plan. (Read it here.) Greetings from Vancouver: Battling the rain for a marathon session of TV set visits ...Arrow called Vancouver home during its entire run, and in 2014, former EW senior writer Natalie Abrams revealed what it was like to shoot in the rainy Canadian territory. (Read it here.) Watch the Arrowverse stars say goodbye to Arrow: ‘I love you, Stephen’ ... Not only did Arrow run for eight seasons, but it also gave birth to an entire shared universe that includes The Flash, Supergirl, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, and Batwoman. Last summer, EW asked stars Grant Gustin, Caity Lotz, Melissa Benoist, and Ruby Rose to pay tribute to the hero who started it all. “None of this would’ve been possible without Stephen and the groundwork that Arrow laid,” said Gustin. Ain’t that the truth. (Read and watch it here.) Edited January 28, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 (edited) At IGN's request, MG picked his favorite major episodes and moments from all seasons of Arrow (he made a comment about each pick, but I only quoted a few of them - so you may wish to read the entire article)... Arrow's Most Important Episodes, As Chosen By Co-Creator Marc Guggenheim By Jolie Lash Updated: 28 Jan 2020https://www.ign.com/articles/arrow-best-episodes-most-important-marc-guggenheim Quote Co-creator, longtime executive producer, and co-writer of the series finale, Marc Guggenheim was less than 24 hours from viewing the final mix of the show when he spoke with IGN, and he shared what he hopes Arrow's legacy will be. * * *"I would like to think, in my most optimistic or most positive moments, that we gave a jolt in the arm to superhero television in general, that when Arrow [came] along, it had been a while since there was a superhero television show. Kind of the way X-Files gave a jolt in the arm to science fiction and genre on television, I feel like we sort of gave a jolt in the arm to the languishing genre of superheroes on television," Guggenheim told IGN. "So, that's the thing I'm most proud of. Quite frankly, I'm most proud of us just simply not screwing it up. Translating a comic book to live action, particularly nine years ago when we were trying to do it, was really challenging and very, very daunting and Greg [Berlanti, Arrowverse executive producer] and I had just come off the Green Lantern experience and there are far more examples of people getting it wrong than people getting it right, and just the fact that it wasn't silly was... that felt like an achievement to us." * * *1: "Pilot," episode 101 ...Guggenheim: "So, the first, I thought, was the opening moments of the pilot because they really established that the show was big. I felt like those opening moments that David Nutter directed really captured the feature quality, cinematic scope that we were going for." * * *3: "Lone Gunman," episode 103 ...Guggenheim: "Item No. 3 is, of course, Felicity's introduction in 103. And, sort of the sub-moment for that is I remember viscerally when I first saw [Emily Bett Rickards'] audition. Auditions are all posted online, and [when] I first saw her audition, I remember, not quite running, but certainly fast walking down to [Executive Producer 2012-2018] Andrew Kreisberg's office, to be like, 'You need to see this actor right now. This person is special.' So, that was a moment both for the series and for the show." * * *6: "The Odyssey," episode 114 ...Guggenheim: "Episode 114 is one of my favorite episodes that we've ever done. It was the first of what became a tradition of – we call them all 'flashback episodes.' That's a little bit of a misnomer, it's more like, 'mostly-flashback episodes,' which flipped the ratio from present day to flashback. And John Behring directed that one, and it was like a breath of fresh air, and it really opened up the flashback stories in this really terrific way. And the other reason that episode is notable to me is that was the episode where Felicity finds out that Oliver is the Green Arrow." * * *11: "The Climb," episode 309 (midseason finale) ...Guggenheim: "Similarly, in terms of fights, #11 is 309, which is the mountaintop fight between Oliver and Ra's al Ghul that Thor Freudenthal directed and [it's] just epic, just epic action. And kudos to Stephen [Amell] and Matt [Nable] for being shirtless outside on Grouse Mountain for an entire fight sequence. That was not easy on them. But, the shirtless fight was a staple of the Batman/Ra's al Ghul fights in the Denny O'Neil, Neal Adams Batman run, so we felt like them being shirtless was actually important for the comic book street cred of it all." * * *16: "Invasion," episode 508 ... "Episode 508, also directed by James Bamford – that episode is the second part of the 'Invasion' crossover. I didn't even include crossover episodes in this list because I feel like they're their own thing, but that episode also happened to be Arrow's 100th episode," Guggenheim told IGN. "And interestingly enough, a lot of people think that we were ripping off the Superman story that Alan Moore wrote called, 'For the Man Who has Everything,' and that's actually incorrect." Instead, Guggenheim said, they were actually "homaging,"or inspired by the 20th anniversary issue of the Fantastic Four. "Truth be told, what happened was … because we were really struggling with ‘how do we do the second chapter of this three-part crossover, while at the same time honoring the fact that this the 100th episode of Arrow?’ and Greg pitched out, 'Well, they're kidnapped by aliens at the end of Part 1 and basically … they're living in a virtual reality, an alternate reality created by the aliens in their minds.' And I immediately said, 'Oh my God, that's “Terror in a Tiny Town.” That's perfect,' because, the 100th episode of a comic book show is the equivalent of an anniversary issue or a landmark issue of a comic book. And there's a reason why John [Byrne] chose to honor the 20th anniversary of the Fantastic Four with this 'Terror in a Tiny Town' story. So, it just felt right, because … that device allows you to revisit all the things that sort of make the show the show in a way that you wouldn't be able to do in a 'normal' episode," Guggenheim explained. The producer also revealed that comic book artist/writer Byrne "gets namechecked in the series finale. So it all comes full circle," he said. 1: "Pilot," episode 101 2: "Honor thy Father," episode 102 3: "Lone Gunman," episode 103 4: "Year's End," episode 109 (midseason finale) 5: "Trust, But Verify," episode 111 6: "The Odyssey," episode 114 7: "Salvation," episode 118 8: "Sacrifice," episode 123 (Season 1 finale) 9: "The Promise," episode 215 10: "Unthinkable," episode 223 (Season 2 finale) 11: "The Climb," episode 309 (midseason finale) 12: "Haunted," episode 405 13: "Brotherhood," episode 407 & "Code of Silence," episode 414 14: "Beacon of Hope," episode 417 15: "Legacy," episode 501 16: "Invasion," episode 508 17: "Spectre of the Gun," episode 513 18: "Lian Yu," episode 523 (Season 5 finale) 19: "The Dragon," episode 619 20: "The Slabside Redemption," episode 707 21: "Fadeout," episode 810 (series finale) ETA: Ha, ha - For the 100th episode, MG says that they were not copying Superman's "For the Man Who Has Everything" story. Instead, he says that they were inspired by Fantastic Four's "Terror in a Tiny Town" story. Edited January 28, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 ‘Arrow’ Series Finale: See The Cast Then &Now Over 8 Seasons Avery Thompson JANUARY 28, 2020https://hollywoodlife.com/feature/arrow-cast-then-and-now-stephen-amell-series-finale-photos-3898842/ 1 Link to comment
statsgirl January 28, 2020 Share January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, tv echo said: 19: "The Dragon," episode 619 He must be referring to a different episode 619 than the one that I saw. 2 Link to comment
way2interested January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 Apparently the flashbacks were supposed to be OTA but due to only having EBR for 2 days they had to drop it https://collider.com/arrow-series-finale-ending-explained/ Quote Question: So, who’s taking home the Oliver Queen statue? MARC GUGGENHEIM: I’ve been joking that it’s gonna look great in my backyard. The truth of the matter is that it’s actually carved out of Styrofoam, so it’s not actually really meant to withstand the elements. Actually, Warner Bros. took a ton of stuff for their archives, and that was among them. Though, obviously, if the spin-off gets picked up then, we’ll take it back. We reserve the right to repossess anything that we’ve given the archives. Diggle got a green box from space and he’s moving to Metropolis. DAVID RAMSEY: Yes, he is. Yeah, he did get a green box, and it was very exciting. I don’t know what that means, but he does go to Metropolis and he got a green box, and we’ll see. We’ll still see, believe it or not. We’ll find out. GUGGENHEIM: We’re just gonna continue to tease you guys. I feel like a little bit like how, in Rocky 4, when Rocky did the press conference for his Ivan Drago fight and he said, “It’s gonna be Christmas in Russia.” And people were like, “Why?” And he was like, “That’s what I was told.” So, every time David and I field questions about, “What was in the box?,” basically it’s like, “That’s what I was told.” What I mean by that is, this was something that was worked out, over a year ahead, with DC entertainment. We very specifically negotiated and discussed the parameters, and I feel like, to say anything beyond what we have shown you, would violate our agreement with DC. How important was it for you to pay off that fan theory? RAMSEY: That was very important. I’m also just amazed that we compared Arrow and Green Lantern to Rocky 4, which was a very good movie. GUGGENHEIM: A long -running inside joke between me and Greg [Berlanti] is how you can learn almost everything about story from Rocky 3. It’s true, by the way. In a separate venue, I could give you a whole song and dance about it. RAMSEY: It’s exciting. This whole thing has been exciting. Yes, the tease has had a bit of a pay-off, but we’ll see what all that means. I’m with Marc. Anything beyond that is violating these parameters that we’ve been given by DC, that we have to honor. But I think we’ve done some justice to the six-year tease that we’ve given. With Diggle moving to Metropolis, could we see him on the upcoming Superman and Lois TV series? GUGGENHEIM: David and I have actually talked a lot about Diggle’s and David’s post-Arrow future. We’ve got some really good ideas. I will also say that David has become a remarkable director, so we’re as interested in him behind the camera, as we are in front. Oliver’s father wasn’t brought back because his death was something that shaped him, but so did the deaths of Moira and Tommy. How did you approach bringing them back, so that you didn’t minimize the impact of those deaths and the character growth that came out of them? GUGGENHEIM: It was a tricky decision, as most of our narrative decisions on Arrow have been, and lord knows there’ll be people up and down my Twitter feed that disagree with me. One thing that we didn’t want to do was invalidate the entire series. There are 169 episodes that come before this one, and all of those stories happened. You can watch, knowing everything. In my mind, things would be different if this was just the eighth season finale, and not the series finale. If we were doing a Season 9 and, suddenly, Tommy and Moira and Lance were all back, then, yeah, it’d be like, “Why’d you jerk me around for eight seasons?” One hundred percent. But we’re not telling those stories. There isn’t a ninth season of Arrow. There is no more Oliver Queen. So, this just felt like a way to honor the completion of Oliver’s mission – a mission that included going through all of these losses that he suffered. BETH SCHWARTZ: Without Oliver going on the Queen’s Gambit and without his father sacrificing himself, so that Oliver could live, he would have never become the Green Arrow. That was what was really important. Out of all the other characters, that’s what triggered everything. GUGGENHEIM: When I saw The Search for Spock, it didn’t invalidate The Wrath of Khan to me. Younger people can look up what movies I’m talking about. As far as the flashbacks go, what was the reasoning behind those particular moments and what did you want to show with those scenes? GUGGENHEIM: Good question. Because Oliver Queen dies two episodes earlier, we always knew that we obviously wanted to have Stephen [Amell] in the finale, apart from just the end scene. That was number one. Number two, the obvious solution to that seemed to be to do a flashback story, which also would honor the flashback convention that’s been so important to the show, particularly in its first five years. It seemed to make sense, since in a series finale, you’re looking backwards and going back to Season 1. The original plan was for it to be something with Oliver, Felicity and Diggle, probably right after Episode 114, when Felicity was brought into the circle of trust. The problem was that Emily [Bett Rickards] was only available to us for two days. Basically, if we had a third day with her, we would have been able to tell that story. Once that didn’t materialize, we were like, “Okay, our back-up plan is do something post Episode 105, after Oliver and Diggle have started working together, and just tell a piece of the story you didn’t see, which is really the start of their relationship, as partners and, as Diggle says later, as brothers. You see, as Oliver says, the proof of concept of what that relationship could be. What was very nice and rewarding for us to see was how that and the eulogy speak to each other, and you really do see how much things have changed. We haven’t seen Felicity this whole season, so what was it like to figure out her whole story in there, in the two days that you had with her? GUGGENHEIM: It was really challenging. As with pretty much every episode of Arrow that we’ve ever done, we wrote Emily without regard to how many days we had her for. We always write without regard to production, and then we modify, based upon whatever time or budgetary limitations are placed on us. In the case of Emily and Felicity, what worked out well was that we realized we were able to schedule all of the present day story elements that we had written for her, in those two days. The only thing that had to change and fall out was that the flashback story had to change, which was obviously really disappointing to us. But as always, we’re presented with lemons and we make lemonade. I’m really happy about the story with David and Stephen. They really brought it, and they really made it work. And just speaking of the flashbacks, one of the things that was always one of our checklist items was that we were gonna leave it all on the field, as far as our action sequences were concerned. This is my bugaboo and my hobby horse, but in seven seasons of Arrow, we have not received even a nomination for a stunts Emmy. We don’t even want the award, at this point. We just would like this amazing team to be recognized for the work that they’ve done. SCHWARTZ: They work so hard and they deliver. GUGGENHEIM: Yeah, week after week. What was behind the decision to have Roy and Thea get engaged, having spent so much time, both off the show and apart? SCHWARTZ: I always wanted them to be together, in the end, no matter what. I love them together. They’re one of my favorite relationships in the series. And then, Marc went further with the engagement. He surprised me. GUGGENHEIM: I was doing my pass on those scenes and I was like, “Oh, this feels right. Why don’t we do this?” I’m also a big fan of that relationship. Something we had discussed and agreed upon, very early on, was that they had to end up together. I’m trying to remember what motivated me to do it. They’d been together, off and on, over the course of eight years. SCHWARTZ: I think I’ve written about 20 of their break-ups. GUGGENHEIM: Yeah, and 20 reconciliation scenes. So, working in one of those reconciliation scenes, I was like, “How do we keep this from being different, the previous 20 times?” Their relationship had to move forward. They had to make a long-term commitment to each other, and it just felt right. I knew it’d be an easy sell to Beth. I was like, “I know Beth will go for this!” SCHWARTZ: We also wanted a few happy endings. Even though we are Arrow, we do have souls and hearts. GUGGENHEIM: That’s what you bring to the show. SCHWARTZ: We have Dig and Lyla, as our happy couple, and we wanted Roy and Thea to be happy, as well. What was it like, being on set for these final days of filming? What was the final scene that you shot? GUGGENHEIM: It was the final scene. It was past midnight and we were all there, including several cast members who didn’t even work that day. Colin Donnell showed up. Rick [Gonzalez] and Juliana [Harkavy] were there. SCHWARTZ: A bunch of the writers came, too. RAMSEY: There were scenes that we finished because the whole day was done, and we just stayed around for that scene. Everyone celebrated. I’m sure there’ll be several posts on Instagram, after it airs. SCHWARTZ: There were a lot of speeches and tears. RAMSEY: The whole day was a celebration, but it was also just surreal. Obviously, this was ending, so people were sad and there were a lot of tears, but also, there was an expectation. Just to have the opportunity to go out the way we wanted to go out, that was doing something to us, too. We felt like we had some control over it, and over what we said and how we said it. So, there were a lot of emotions that day. GUGGENHEIM: We actually wrapped the show three times. We never do anything once on Arrow. The final scene was the final scene, but then we did pick-ups and drone footage, the day after, so that was the second time that we series wrapped the show. And then, the Ezra Miller cameo came up, at the last minute. The cut had already been locked, and we opened up the cut and shot that on The Flash stage. There was a little bit of a spark between Tommy and Laurel. How much of that was planned, and is there room to play with that, in the potential spin-off? GUGGENHEIM: I think it was in the stage direction. It was certainly in the tone meeting. They nailed it. SCHWARTZ: We can play that in the spin-off. We’ll find a way. GUGGENHEIM: There’s lots of potential. Part of constructing any series finale is that you want to close off a certain number of loops, but you also want to open a certain number of loops because these characters lives go on beyond the show. Even when it’s not a shared universe and even when there’s no spin-off, these characters don’t cease to “exist.” By the way, who doesn’t hook up at a funeral? Am I right? No. The multi-verse has been a great reason why the heroes, especially Supergirl and Superman, don’t just show up and solve everyone else’s problems. Now that everyone is on Earth Prime, how are you going to handle that, going forward? GUGGENHEIM: First of all, I would argue that this has been a “problem-tunity” for us, ever since The Flash joined our world because, why doesn’t Oliver just call up Barry to fix things? If you’ve seen Iron Man 3, why doesn’t Iron Man call the Avengers for help? This is a classic problem, or problem-tunity, that all shared universes share. The answer is invariably because Barry and Kara and Clark are all busy saving their own cities and saving other planets, even. That’s always the answer. Because we’re now all on Earth Prime, it’s more beholden on us, just to try to acknowledge all of the other shows, going forward. That’s part of the fun. One of the things that David and I have talked about is, how do we create more cohesion among all of the shows, so that you really feel like you’re living in a shared universe? That, to me, is what’s really exciting. I think all of the other showrunners share that. Is there room left for Stephen Amell to come back, for crossovers or something else, or do you feel like that would dishonor this ending that you’ve created for him? GUGGENHEIM: That’s a good question. As we’ve said, he’s become something else. The whole point of making him The Spectre was just to give us story opportunities because who knows what’s gonna happen, in the future. The one thing I always say, every time a character dies on any of these shows, is that we’ve got alternate realities, time travel, and flashbacks. You name it, we have all of these different devices. No one’s ever really gone. Look at Colin Donnell. He’s practically a series regular, still into Season 8. From my point of view, while I would always love to see Stephen back, it would be about how we brought him back and when. If we brought him back in the seventh season premiere of The Flash, it would probably diminish this a bit. SCHWARTZ: There’s always an opportunity to cut to him and Felicity in the afterlife, just hanging out and living their best life. GUGGENHEIM: There’s a contingent of fans, where all they want is to see Oliver and Felicity at Bed, Bath & Beyond. It’s been a long joke. I’m like, look, we gave them beyond. One out of three. Not too bad. How did the nod to the DC TV series Powerless come about? GUGGENHEIM: You’re talking about the billboard. The art department, a lot of times, will tell us, “Hey, listen, we’re gonna be on this location, and to cover something up, we’re gonna put up a billboard, and put up this or that.” We’ve trained them, over the course of eight years, to look at that as an Easter egg opportunity. I’ll be totally frank, by this point, we were through with Crisis, I was completely spent, and also spent with just the amount of fights and battles and seductions that you’ve gotta do to get all of these Easter eggs, and I was like, “I dunno if I have anything left in me.” So, I called up Dan Evans, who’s been my partner in crime for so much of this, and was like, “Okay, Easter egg for the Arrow finale? What do you think?” And that was his pitch. I was like, “Great, wonderful, done.” Anything I can also clear, at this point, was like, “Let’s do that.” Plus, I also loved that show, so it worked out really well. That’s the good, the bad and the ugly on that Easter egg. What can you say about David Ramsey’s upcoming appearance in The Flash, in Episode 610? RAMSEY: We continue. People are still recovering. There’s a whole cast, over there on The Flash, that are still recovering from Oliver’s death, and part of that connection to Oliver is Diggle, obviously. Diggle’s presence there serves as that conduit and a way to grieve, but there’s also a case. There’s something to solve, that’s going on over in The Flash’s world and that Diggle is a part of. Link to comment
Trisha January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, way2interested said: Apparently the flashbacks were supposed to be OTA but due to only having EBR for 2 days they had to drop it. I am so very glad and grateful that she came back at all because she certainly wasn’t obligated to and it would have been a lesser finale without her. But seeing as she didn’t appear to be working when they shot the finale... this kind of made me go “huh.” Edited January 29, 2020 by Trisha 5 Link to comment
calliope1975 January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 Quote There was a little bit of a spark between Tommy and Laurel. How much of that was planned, and is there room to play with that, in the potential spin-off? GUGGENHEIM: I think it was in the stage direction. It was certainly in the tone meeting. They nailed it. SCHWARTZ: We can play that in the spin-off. We’ll find a way. I will never understand the interchangeability of LL. 4 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said: I will never understand the interchangeability of LL. We go from sister swapping to Laurel swapping. Love that 4 2 Link to comment
Angel12d January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, Trisha said: I am so very glad and grateful that she came back at all because she certainly wasn’t obligated to and it would have been a lesser finale without her. But seeing as she didn’t appear to be working when they shot the finale... this kind of made me go “huh.” Yeah. I'm glad she came back but it's disappointing she couldn't do some OTA scenes. That's actually something that felt completely missing. 5 Link to comment
Velocity23 January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 They could have easily scrapped the william gets kidnapped part and instead replaced it with a OTA flashback. 2 Link to comment
Trisha January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 Sepinwall didn’t write a review, but glad to see a critic at his level tuned into the finale: Link to comment
Trisha January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 This post-finale MG interview seems to have different content than a lot of the others, including characters they tried to get back that I hadn't heard mentioned in other interviews (The Huntress, Walter, Malcolm), how they re-did the Moira scene without Manu Bennett, and how they've left it open for Oliver, Felicity and Diggle to appear in other shows. 'Arrow' EP on How They Pulled Off That Massive Finale & What May Come Next By Damian Holbrookhttps://www.tvinsider.com/852594/arrow-finale-ending-oliver-queen-questions-answered/ Quote So that was all new footage then? ... Including that fight sequence? Everything. The only thing that Stephen is in that was not shot for the episode, was the very beginning with him knocking out Slade (Manu Bennett) and saving Moira. I can tell you how that came about. When we start talking about the finale in earnest, I asked our post-production team to put together a reel of all the deleted scenes we've ever had on the show, including the ones that have not been released. And episode 223 originally began with a dream sequence of Oliver basically imagining, "What if he was able to save Moira's life?" But we couldn't include that in the final cut of 223, so I had this footage and was like, “Oh, this is the perfect way to open things because it illustrates how things unfolded differently in the post-Crisis world!" It was this wonderful happy accident. The part with Mia dreaming of the moments from the pilot where Robert kills himself, that was originally supposed to open the finale. It all just came together in a nice way and it was great to see Manu again as Slade Wilson. And like I said, it really illustrated how different the world was. It was just a wonderful little discovery. ... What was Emily's return like? Obviously, everyone wanted that. I think in many ways it just felt right. I was there on set for all of Emily's scenes and honestly, it just felt like she'd never left. And I think that's the way her performance felt. The way she and the other cast members interacted with each other, it just felt like we were picking right back up, that, that she had been in episodes 801 through 810. And that was really, really great. That very last scene was in fact the very last season shot. Oh, geez. Yeah. And by the way, and what was great was we were shooting until one in the morning, it was the end of the shoot, and Juliana [Harkavy, Dinah] was there, Colin Donnell [Tommy] was there. All of these cast members came out just watch Stephen and Emily film their last scene and the show's last scene. It was really, really nice. It was so lovely. Even when you realize," Oh my God, Felicity's now dead... guess we won't be seeing her on the Canaries spinoff." [Laughs] Well, let me put it to you this way: All things are possible. The one thing I've said to all the actors who we've killed off over the course of eight years, and this is proven to be true time and time again, is that death on this show does not mean goodbye. I mean, look at Colin Donnell. He has been on the show so much. So no one has ever truly gone. And if Green Arrow and the Canaries goes, there is already a host of different ways to have Emily return. I actually have a very specific one in mind, but I'm obviously not going to tell what it is, because maybe we'll get it. Maybe we'll get a chance to do it. I don't know. And what about Diggle? Ramsey was so great in all of these final episodes and you tease that Digg and Lyla are moving to Metropolis. Is the plan for him to actually show up on Superman and Lois? I don't know exactly what the plan is just yet. David and I and Greg [Berlanti] have all had a lot of conversations about David and Diggle's post-Arrow future. We've got some ideas that I'm incredibly excited about. But as a general rule, I try to avoid speaking for shows that I'm not involved with. Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) Another post-finale MG interview (there's a lot that I didn't quote)... Arrow Series Finale: Who Nearly Missed Funeral? Did Laurel and [___] Hook Up? And More Burning Qs Answered By Matt Webb Mitovich / January 28 2020, 7:https://tvline.com/2020/01/28/arrow-series-finale-recap-burning-questions-answered/ Quote TVLine spoke with Arrowverse EP Marc Guggenheim about some of the hard decisions and “enormous” intricacies involved in crafting the series finale. TVLINE | You told me last summer that you came out of a morning meditation with the potential idea for a brand-new, very final scene. Did we get it? You got it. You got it almost word for word. That was exactly the scene. It was really weird, actually, to be there for the filming of it, because it’s like, “Oh my God, this thing arrived full-blown into my head and I just jotted it down.” To watch it being performed — and performed at such a high level by Stephen [Amell] and Emily [Bett Rickards] — was really exciting. TVLINE | What were the logistics that you were worried about, to make it happen? Getting Emily back, digging up that old set…? Actually, we were going to redo the set already and use it for something else, so that wasn’t the problem. It was getting Emily. ... TVLINE | Now, I don’t know how long ago you knew that the series finale would have Oliver’s funeral…. Oh, God. Like, for over a year. For over a year we’ve known that Oliver would die in Crisis and we knew, therefore, the series finale would have to be different from what you typically expect from a series finale. TVLINE | So besides a funeral, how did you decide what else the series finale needed to be? Good question. It was something that kind of crept upon us. We kind of started with the known knowns, the things that we knew had to be in there. We knew it had to have a funeral. We knew that we wanted to both have Stephen present in the finale and honor our flashback conventions by flashing back to an unseen moment of Season 1. We knew that we wanted an action sequence that would leave it all on the field, that would be our finale punctuation mark on the show’s legacy of stunt work and action. And then later on in the process, we hit upon the idea that Oliver sacrificing himself for the rebirth of the universe would bring back a lot of the people he’s lost along the way. We knew had all those elements, and then it was really a question of “How do we structure those elements?” and “What’s the unifying principle that ties everything together?” The nice thing was that because we had this plan in place for so long, we were able to just spend a lot of time talking about it. TVLINE | In watching the series finale, I got more of Emily Bett Rickards than I ever anticipated. Did you? No, we actually got less. We got less. We write everything without regard to scheduling, and without regard to budget — our ADs and our line producer can speak to that! — because we always want the story to come first. And then we make scheduling tomorrow’s problem. So we basically wrote as much Felicity as we wanted to, with one exception. The original plan for the flashback story was that it would take place sometime around the aftermath of [Episode] 114, which is after Felicity learns of Oliver’s secret and basically joins Oliver and Diggle in the Arrow bunker, but we were only able to get Emily for two days. Something had to fall out, and that became the flashback story, unfortunately. But in terms of the present-day story, we were able to schedule everything. It wasn’t easy to schedule — we had to do what’s called a “company move” in the middle of one of the days to make it all happen — but we did it, and that’s what matters. * * *TVLINE | Was any camera trickery needed? Was anybody not actually at the funeral? No, actually everybody was there. Everybody was there. TVLINE | Because at one point I was looking at Kara, like, “Why isn’t she holding an umbrella like everyone else…?” I started to convince myself she had been spliced into a scene. No, but I will say Melissa [Benoist], again, a total team player. She also came and went very quickly, because she was shooting on Supergirl that day. Tricky, tricky stuff. * * *TVLINE | Yes, and Moira was a good soldier in that moment. “You’re welcome here anytime” and all. That was actually something that was really important to Susanna [Thompson]. That line wasn’t exactly written that way, but it was important to Susanna that Moira convey a sense of familial connection with Emiko. * * *TVLINE | Just to clarify about Mia’s return to 2020…. When the Green Arrow and the Canaries spinoff pilot episode opened, Laurel and Dinah had already attended a funeral for Oliver that Mia was not at, right…? Yes, and I’m glad you mentioned that. This episode really went over in time; even though it was a short script, we really let all the moments breathe, and there was an exchange when Sara comes to pick up Mia [in 2040]. Sara said, “I time-traveled here… to take you to your dad’s funeral,” and there was a couplet that we had to cut for time where Mia says, “But I wasn’t at my dad’s funeral,” and Sara says, “That’s what I’m here to fix. Time travel, remember?” https://tvline.com/gallery/arrow-series-finale-burning-questions-answered/arrow-series-finale-flashbacks/ Quote WHY WASN’T THERE MORE FELICITY IN THE FINALE? Though Felicity and Olicity fans had to be thrilled to get so much more than a walk into the cosmic sunset, Oliver’s love almost was involved in the “new” flashbacks, as well. “The original plan was for it to be something with Oliver, Felicity and Diggle, probably circa right after Episode 114, when Felicity was sort of brought into the circle of trust,” says Guggenheim. “The problem was that Emily was only available to us for two days. If we had a third day with her we would have been able to tell that story [but] once that didn’t materialize, we were like, ‘Well, our backup plan is do something circa [Episode] 105, post-105, after Oliver and Diggle have started working together,’ and just tell a piece of the story you didn’t see, which is … like Diggle says later… the ‘proof of concept,’ what that relationship could be.” * * *HAVE WE SEEN ALL OF ARROW‘S ‘CRISIS’ RESURRECTIONS? For example, Moira, Tommy, Emiko and Future Zoe have been brought back, while other characters — including some that were by no means “dearly” departed — seem to have stayed six feet under. “We had large conversations, just on Arrow, about the characters who were dead and the ones that we were bringing back,” says showrunner Beth Schwartz. “We spell it out in the finale that the people who were important to Oliver have come back — but that doesn’t mean we won’t surprise you if the [Green Arrow and the Canaries] spinoff goes [to series], or if there’s another character that might come back on other shows.” * * *WHAT’S THE ONE SCENARIO WHERE EARTH-ONE’S LAUREL MIGHT HAVE LIVED ON INSTEAD? In deciding which Laurel (if not both) would live on post-Crisis, “We went back and forth on that a great deal, and truth be told, that was really driven by the [potential Green Arrow and the Canaries] spinoff,” says Arrowverse EP Marc Guggenheim. “I think if we weren’t doing a spinoff, we probably would have gone a different way. “We’ve really fallen in love over the years with the Earth-Two version of Laurel,” he adds. “We love Katie [Cassidy]’s take on that character, we love writing for that character, and we love the complexities of that character’s sort of moral seesaw. She’s just always been a more interesting character to us.” As showrunner Beth Schwartz notes, “In Season 7 and 8, she was really able to redeem herself, and we felt that that was such an important story for her character, to come such a long way from murdering people all the time to becoming the hero she was at the end of Season 8, and will continue to be in the spinoff, hopefully.” * * *IS THERE A FUTURE FOR TOMMY AND EARTH-TWO’S LAUREL? Any spark you may have sensed as the two first met at the funeral was established in the writers’ tone meeting and then “set in the stage direction,” says EP Marc Guggenheim, quipping: “Who doesn’t hook up at a funeral, right?” “They nailed it,” adds showrunner Beth Schwartz, who loves the idea of Tommy (played by original cast member Colin Donnell) popping up on Green Arrow and Canaries, if it gets ordered to series in May. “Oh, we can play that in the spinoff!” she declares with a delighted laugh. “We’ll find a way!” Edited January 29, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
Primal Slayer January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 Downfall from having one huge press junket...majority of the interviews are exactly the same answers lol Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) A few more post-finale interview articles... Arrow Bosses Explain Why That Olicity Series Finale Scene Was the Perfect Ending Lindsay MacDonald Jan. 28, 2020https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-marc-guggenheim-beth-schwartz-olicity-happy-ending-cut-scenes/ Quote The final scene of the series finale (which coincidentally was also the final scene shot for the episode), picked up right after that Season 7 cliffhanger, which saw Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) step into a portal that would take her to Oliver in the afterlife. It turns out, heaven looks a lot like his mother's office at Queen Consolidated! Oliver met her there, more peaceful than we've ever seen him, and explained his mother's office was where he saw Felicity for the very first time (in a Season 3 flashback), so naturally, that's what his personal heaven would look like. Together, they gazed out over a peaceful city, finally ready to enjoy an eternity together. According to executive producers Beth Schwartz and Marc Guggenheim, that scene was written back in June of 2019, before they even knew Rickards would be able to return for the final episode. * * * "Originally, Beth and I, we had almost all the pieces," Guggenheim told reporters at a screening of the series finale. "We knew it would be a Coda, we knew there'd be a Season 1 flashback, we knew the build-up to the green box. The very last scene, we've known for months and months and months — since June, I think. So we've known almost everything... The big question was, is Emily coming back to be in it? I'm like, 'Well, now she really has to because I really love the scene." "We didn't even think of another ending," Schwartz added. "Like, we didn't have a backup plan at all. We were just like, Emily needs to do this and luckily, she did." Given that this happy ending was not only the final bookend on Oliver story but also the final scene shot before the show was wrapped, it held extra significance to everyone involved. And thus, it drew a crowd. * * * "The original plan was for it to be something with Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle, probably circa, like right after Episode 114, when Felicity was sort of brought into the circle of trust," Guggenheim told reporters. "The problem was that Emily was only available to us for two days. And that meant — basically, if we had a third day with her, we would have been able to tell that story. Once that didn't materialize, we were like, 'OK, well, our backup plan is do something circa [105], after Oliver and Diggle started working together and just tell us a piece of the story you didn't see, which is really the start of their relationship.' I think, as partners, and as Diggle says later, as brothers, you kind of see, as Oliver says, the proof of concept. What that relationship could be. And I think it's what was very nice and rewarding for us to see was how that and the eulogy speak to each other and you really do see how much things have changed." * * * Schwartz and Guggenheim say they're not ruling out the possibility that some incarnation of Oliver Queen could return to the Arrowverse in the future — anything is possible in the not-so-multiverse. * * * "As we've sort of said in the saga, he's become something else," Guggenheim said. "The whole point of making him the Spectre was just to give us opportunities, to give us story opportunities because who knows what's going to happen in the future? And the one thing I always say, every time a character dies on any of these shows, it's like, we've got alternate realities, we got time travel we've got, flashbacks, you name it! We have all these different devices. No one's ever really gone. I mean look at Colin Donnell, I mean, Jesus Christ! How many times — he's practically a series regular still into Season 8." As far as honoring the character's happy ending and the fear that his return might dishonor that, Guggenheim says it's all very dependent upon the future storylines that might facilitate that return. "I would love to always see Stephen, to speak to [the] question, 'Are we honoring or dishonoring,' I think would be how we brought him back and when. If we brought him back in the seventh season premiere of The Flash, it would probably diminish this a bit. "There's always the opportunity to cut to him and Felicity in the afterlife just hanging out. Living their best life!" Beth Schwartz added. Personally, we'll now feel cheated if there isn't a scene in Mia Smoak Queen's (Katherine McNamara) spin-off of Oliver and Felicity eating popcorn while watching her kick butt and save the city from the beyond. Arrow EPs Break Down Series Finale's Closing Scene — And If the Arrowverse Will Ever See Oliver or Felicity Again By Vlada Gelman / January 28 2020https://tvline.com/2020/01/28/arrow-series-finale-oliver-felicity-reunion-final-scene/ Quote Although that “Olicity” reunion marks the end of Arrow‘s run, there are still a multitude of spinoffs to which the show gave birth. So might Oliver and/or Felicity ever come back in some form? “The whole point of making him the Spectre was to give us story opportunities, because who knows what’s going to happen in the future?” Guggenheim said. “And the one thing I always say every time a character dies on any of these shows, it’s like, ‘We’ve got alternate realities. We’ve got time travel. We’ve got flashbacks.’ You name it, we have all these different devices. No one’s ever really gone.” However… as much as Guggenheim “would love to see Stephen [Amell] back,” any such encore/cameo would depend on “how we brought him back and when,” so as not to dishonor the character’s sacrifice. “If we brought him back in, like, the seventh season premiere of Flash, it would probably diminish this event.” Besides, “there’s also the opportunity to cut to him and Felicity in the afterlife, just hanging out. Living their best life,” Schwartz said with a laugh. Added Guggenheim: “There’s a contingent of fans who all they want is to see Oliver and Felicity at Bed Bath & Beyond…. I’m like, ‘Look, you know what, we gave them Beyond!’ One out of three! Not too bad.” From Reunions to Easter Eggs: 'Arrow' Bosses Break Down the Series Finale JANUARY 28, 2020 7:00pm PT by Jean Bentleyhttps://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-series-finale-explained-1274323 Quote The last scene of the series saw a future Felicity in 2040 finally ready to reunite with her true love, stepping through a portal to the afterlife with her beau. It's a scene that Guggenheim wrote back in June after a particularly fruitful morning meditation session. "This has never happened to me before or since," he said. "I came out of the meditation with the entire scene in my head, like literally word for word, exactly as you just watched it. I quickly opened up my laptop, and [mimics typing] 'I gotta get this down.' For me it felt so right. And I very excitedly texted Beth, 'I wrote the final scene, I gotta send it to you.' Of course the big question was, is Emily coming back to be in it? We were like, well, now she really has to because I really love the scene. And fortunately she did." The payoff for the fan-favorite romance was always the plan — "We didn't even think of another ending," Schwartz said. "We didn't have a backup plan at all" — but it did depend on Rickards' schedule. The original flashback for the episode would've involved Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity, but was scrapped once Rickards' schedule dictated that she could only return for two days. The final scene between Oliver and Felicity was also the final scene the cast and crew filmed together. * * * In a world with time travel, multiple universes, and superpowers, no ending is actually permanent, and that includes Oliver's: Should the occasion arise, there's always room for Amell to reprise his role, particularly now that the character is technically still a part of the DC canon. "The whole point of making him the Spectre was just to give us story opportunities, because who knows what's going to happen in the future," said Guggenheim. "And the one thing I always say every time a character dies on any of the shows, it's like, we've got alternate realities. We got time travel, we got flashbacks, you name it. We have all these different devices. No one's ever really gone. I mean, look at Colin Donnell. I mean, Jesus Christ! He's practically a series regular still in season eight." "While I would love to always see Stephen back," he continued, the circumstances of the character's return would be pivotal. "If we brought him back in the seventh season premiere of Flash it would probably diminish this a bit. Fortunately we we have some sway with those folks." Quipped Schwartz, "There's always the opportunity to cut to him and Felicity in the afterlife just hangin' out!" ‘Arrow’ Series Finale: Why Oliver And Felicity’s Emotional Reunion Was The Perfect Final Scene By ETONLINE.COM. January 29, 2020https://etcanada.com/news/583473/arrow-series-finale-why-oliver-and-felicitys-emotional-reunion-was-the-perfect-final-scene/ Quote Rickards was ultimately available for only two days of filming, prompting Guggenheim and Schwartz to scrap plans for flashbacks to season one involving Original Team Arrow (OTA), which was Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. (“If we had a third day with her, we would’ve been able to tell that story,” Guggenheim said.) The flashbacks ended up focusing squarely on Oliver and Diggle’s working relationship in its infancy stages. “It was really challenging,” Guggenheim said of incorporating Felicity’s whole story into a handful of scenes in the series finale, including the star-studded funeral at Oliver’s grave. “In the case of Emily and Felicity, what worked out well was we realized we are able to schedule all the present-day story elements that we have written for her in these two days. The only thing that had to change and fall out was the flashback story had to change, which was obviously really disappointing to us. We’re presented with lemons and we make lemonade, and I’m really happy with the story that David [Ramsey] and Stephen [did]. They really brought it.” * * * Guggenheim and Schwartz confirmed that the final scene of the series was the last one shot on “Arrow”, and they, along with Ramsey, reflected on the nostalgic mood on set of that final day. “It was past midnight. We were all there, including several cast members who didn’t even work that day,” Guggenheim said, noting that Colin Donnell, who returned as Tommy Merlyn; Rick Gonzalez; Juliana Harkavy; and several writers were present as the series wrapped. “There were a lot of speeches and tears,” Schwartz chimed in. “There were scenes we finished and we just stayed around for that scene and everyone celebrated. It was a celebration but it was also surreal. It just didn’t feel… obviously this was ending, people were sad, there were a lot of tears. Just to have the opportunity to go out the way we wanted to go out, I think that was doing something to us too. We felt like we had some control over what we said and how we said it,” Ramsey added. “There were a lot of emotions that day.” Arrow Drops Final Green Lantern Teases With Series Finale — Here's What It Means for Diggle's Arrowverse Future By Vlada Gelman / January 28 2020https://tvline.com/2020/01/28/arrow-series-finale-diggle-green-lantern-metropolis-david-ramsey/ Quote As he was packing up to move with his family to Metropolis (!), a meteor crashed near Dig, slamming him against the moving van with its force. After shaking off the blow, Dig combed through the debris to discover a mysterious box, which, upon being opened, emitted a bright green light. But what exactly does that Green Lantern-esque glow signify for Dig’s life post-Arrow? “I don’t know what that means,” his portrayer David Ramsey admitted this week at a press screening. “But he does go to Metropolis, and he got a green box. We’ll still see, believe it or not. We’ll find out.” If it feels like Ramsey is being especially guarded about the ramifications of the reveal, that’s because the scene in question “was something that was worked out over a year ahead with DC Entertainment,” Arrowverse executive producer Marc Guggenheim explained. “We very specifically negotiated and discussed the parameters, and I feel like to say anything beyond what we have showed you would violate our agreement with DC.” But addressing the long-held fan theory that Dig becomes a Green Lantern “was very important,” Ramsey said, adding that “this whole thing is exciting.” “I think there’s been a bit of a payoff,” Ramsey continued. “We’ll see what all that means. But I’m with Marc — anything beyond that… is kind of violating these parameters that we’ve been given by DC that we have to honor. But I think we’ve done some justice” to the long-running tease. (Note: HBO Max has an actual Green Lantern series in development, which counts Arrowverse EP Greg Berlanti among its sires.) The big, green twist, as well as Dig’s relocation to Metropolis aka the home of the greenlit Superman & Lois spinoff, hints at the possibility that Ramsey’s time within DC’s TV universe might not be over. “All I can tell you is that Greg [Berlanti], David and I have had a lot of conversations about David’s future in the Arrowverse going forward, both in front [of] and behind the camera,” Guggenheim told TVLine during a post mortem interview, “and there are a lot of ideas that we’re banding about that are very exciting to us… He’s on The Flash [on Tuesday, Feb. 4], and we’ve just got some cool notions for next season.” Edited January 29, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) Actually, I disagree with Laura Hurley - I don't think Oliver & Felicity are alone in their new afterlife life. When the camera zoomed out to the birds-eye view of the city, it cuts off before you can even see the streets. You can, however, see boats in the harbor (presumably with people on them)... Arrow Series Finale: Did Oliver Queen Get A Happy Ending Or Not? BY LAURA HURLEY JAN. 28. 2020https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2489260/arrow-series-finale-did-oliver-queen-get-a-happy-ending-or-not Quote It made for a very romantic final scene of the series, and what these characters (and Olicity fans) deserved. Oliver was rewarded for his years of struggles, pain, and heartbreak by getting to be with Felicity again, and Felicity's patience and yearning paid off as she got to be with her husband again. The happy couple was last seen in Moira's office, and the camera zoomed out to show the building still labeled "Queen Consolidated" and Star City looking complete and untroubled. On the one hand, of course that's a happy ending! The epic romance of Arrow didn't end in tragedy, and our last memories of Oliver and Felicity don't have to be Oliver dying for the second time in "Crisis" and Felicity crying at Oliver's funeral. Oliver was looking happy and unburdened, and Felicity was even back in her ponytail and glasses combo. * * *On the other hand, the ending for Oliver and Felicity looked an awful lot like they were the only two people who existed in their afterlife. The shot of Star City didn't show crowds of people or cars moving or pretty much any activity. Oliver and Felicity genuinely looked like the only people in their own little world. Although that is very romantic and I'm sure they'd enjoy just being with each other for a while after so much time and so much weirdness keeping them apart, it also strikes me as very lonely and kind of sad. Epic love story aside, Oliver and Felicity also had friends other than each other. They got to interact with people. It's not like either one of them is likely to die in the afterlife. And is there more to this place than Star City? Does their eternity consist of just the two of them in an empty world with nothing ever changing? I like to think that this afterlife will slowly be populated by the people who knew and loved Oliver and Felicity and would want to reunite with them when their time comes to die, so Oliver and Felicity will just have their world to themselves until others are ready to join them. That leaves me a little more at peace than imagining them alone in an empty world together literally forever or imagining them in a world full of versions of their loved ones that Spectre-Oliver created. So, was this a happy ending? I would say that this was definitely a happy ending in the short term, with a potentially not-so-happy future. We'll likely never know, so my admittedly depressing theories shouldn't bum anybody out. At this point, whatever happens for Oliver and Felicity after the final credits rolled is up to viewers to decide for themselves unless the Arrow-verse reveals otherwise. Despite my depressing theories, I'm choosing to imagine a genuine happily-ever-after for these two deserving characters. Edited January 29, 2020 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) A.V. Club gave 810 a grade of A- ... https://tv.avclub.com/arrow-says-goodbye-with-tears-a-mission-statement-and-1841220922 Quote In its final hour, Arrow does what it has always done. In some ways, it reverts to what it was in the beginning, once again incorporating flashbacks, returning to the question of Oliver’s morality and when it is and isn’t okay to kill people, and questioning what a successful mission looks like, in the end. Yet in another sense, this is an episode of Arrow that could only have existed after eight long seasons of television, eight years of ups and downs, of brilliant fight sequences, of self-recrimination and inspiring speeches in equal measure, of entrances and exits, gut-wrenching deaths, improbable reincarnations, secret kids, doppelgangers, dream sequences, alternate earths, bunker banter, and, of course, salmon ladders. Like many episodes of Arrow over the years, it’s a story about grief. Like the series as a whole—even when it didn’t feel like it—it’s also a story about hope. And what the hell, it lets William get kidnapped one last time. For old times’ sake. * * *Writing about series finales is tricky, though not as tricky as writing the finales themselves. Arrow’s is a very good one, for no other reason than that it feels good. It is, in its own quiet way, ambitious, tying up many storylines (some in a rush, it must be said) and giving nearly every character and ending that would be satisfying, should we never see them again. (More on that later.) And wisely, it doesn’t leave its central figure behind, despite his death, and instead shows him to us from a new vantage point: through the eyes of both the John Diggle of 2012, and the Digg we know now. That’s a choice that puts David Ramsey smack at the center of “Fadeout”—an apt name for a tender, solemn, and definitive hour. That particular decision pays off immediately, and not just because Ramsey is both typically and especially great here. Anchoring this hour to John Diggle doesn’t force the show to pull away from any of its other characters, but it does keep it from spinning wildly from grieving face to grieving face. We visit Rene and Rory, we hang out with Thea and Roy, we get a tattoo with Dinah and have a minor meltdown with Laurel, we check in with Quentin and Tommy and Sara and Moira and Mia and (of course) Felicity. The al Ghul sisters, Anatoly, Emiko, the gang’s all here*. Yet thanks to that gentle focus on Diggle, it never seems overcrowded or unwieldy. Every time things start to wobble, we’re back with John. The episode returns us to the John of today, who can’t accept that the mission is over, or to the John of the past, fighting for a place by Oliver’s side and to save his soul at the same time. (Very disorienting to hear Stephen Amell say “Diggle” with such irritation.) In doing so, it also anchors the story to Oliver Queen’s arc over these eight years. Who he was. Who he became. And most important, it ties the story to those of us watching. Who we are. Who we can become. * * *Arrow wants you to be the best person that you can be. It wants you to take that aim and share it with others. It’s a show about a guy in a mask who needed a lot of therapy, who stabbed people with sharp arrows and blew stuff up with trick arrows and flew around thanks to arrows with cables attached, a dark but goofy superhero series which chose, in its final hours, to remind us of its most noble pursuit: to tell us that we can be better. Not bad for a closing statement. * * * * — with a few exceptions. Very sad that the end of the Canaries backdoor pilot made it impossible for Ben Lewis to join in. No adult or child Zoe or Connor. The list goes on. But I was most surprised by the absence of Cisco Ramone, Caitlin Snow, and Ray Palmer in particular. * * * TAMVP: Unsurprisingly, no one even sort of phoned it in. We got lovely moments from pretty much everyone, notably Aubrey Marie Anderson, Katherine McNamara, Emily Bett Rickards, Paul Blackthorne, Katie Cassidy, Juliana Harkavy, Susanna Thompson, Grant Gustin, the list goes on. Caity Lotz even got a subtle Legends-esque non-sequitur. (“This is a nice room!”) And Stephen Amell was great, of course. But this hour was anchored with telephone-pole arms by David Ramsey, and I think it’s possibly his best turn in the series. Edited January 30, 2020 by tv echo 2 Link to comment
Trisha January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 29 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said: Downfall from having one huge press junket...majority of the interviews are exactly the same answers lol I'm actually surprised they didn't get more of the cast beyond DR to do post-finale interviews. I guess KC, KM and JH just did a round of press for the backdoor pilot and EBR only committed two days to shooting so was probably not up to additional duties, but it's very surprising how little we've heard from SA. I was expecting at least a FB/IG live video, but I guess he's done done. 2 Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 Watchover with Jen and Calli Watchover Ep 68 - The End of the Road January 28, 2020https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/watchover-with-jen-and-calli/e/66935826 The #Arrow finale aired tonight and because our listeners hate, they voted to have us record tonight. Apologies in advance that we aren't at our best and most pithy, but surely there will be more to say in the coming days. But for now, come listen to our breakdown in real time. Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) Edited January 29, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) There's more than what I quoted... Arrow boss talks series finale, the episode he'd redo, and biggest writers' room debates By Chancellor Agard January 29, 2020https://ew.com/tv/2020/01/29/arrow-boss-talks-series-finale-the-episode-hed-redo-and-biggest-writers-room-debates/ Quote Below, Guggenheim sits down with EW for a final in-depth Arrow chat and opens up about the episode he’d like to revisit if he could, the story lines that stirred the most debate in the writers’ room, what it was like crafting the finale, and more. ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: To start, did you guys pitch [executive producer/co-creator] Greg Berlanti your ending? How did he react? MARC GUGGENHEIM: Yeah, we definitely pitched it to him. He was cool with everything. I don’t recall there [being] anything specific [like], “Oh, you definitely need to do this” or “Here’s an idea for that.” It was more like, “Wow, that just feels really right.” You know, go with God, essentially. And so we did. When we spoke way back in June for EW’s Arrow cover story, you said you’d just written the final scene after coming out of a meditation session that morning. Is that the same scene? That’s the scene. Did it change at all from then to now? No. In fact, it’s pretty much word for word. On the day, Stephen and Emily may have used a different phrase here or added a phrase there, but literally it’s exactly the same scene, down to everything. It was amazing to actually get to watch it get to be shot. Was the final scene of the show in inspired by how the Crisis on Infinite Earths comic ended, with Superboy, Alexander Luthor, and Earth-2 Superman and Lois Lane going off to live in a paradise dimension? You know, probably subconsciously, yes. Because back in June I was rereading Crisis for the umpteenth time, so it was probably definitely milling about in my subconscious, because like I said, that scene literally came out of my subconscious. I meditate every morning, but I never come out of meditation with an idea or a scene or anything. This is the first and last time that’s ever happened to me. So I think a lot of things were roiling around in my head that particular morning. * * *Is there anything you wish you could redo or sharpen a bit? I’ve been doing television for 20 years. There’s not a single episode of anything I’ve ever worked on I wouldn’t take back in a heartbeat. I’ll give you a specific example: I wrote 513, which was the “gun control” episode. I thought that we were taking a big enough chance just by raising the specter of the issue, no pun intended. Looking back on it, especially in light of the number of mass shootings that unfortunately happened after that episode aired, I wish I had gotten higher up on my soapbox. I had an opportunity and an audience, and I was trying to show both sides of the argument, and I wish I had basically come down hard on one particular side. You’ve said that you always thought Oliver needed to die as the final piece of redemption for his murderous origins. What do you hope you captured or conveyed about the idea of redemption? The thing that I’m most proud of, quite frankly, in the series is the fact that Oliver goes from being a spoiled rich a—hole to a mass murderer, to a father twice over, a husband, a public hero not hiding behind a hood, a former mayor. He goes on probably the most severe character journey of any character I’ve ever worked on because we had not just eight years — we really have 13 years of a story. But over those 13 years he grows and evolves as a human being, in a way that I’m really glad we got to tell that story. Edited January 29, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2020 Share January 29, 2020 (edited) ‘Arrow’: Oliver Queen Deserved A Happy Ending BY: ALYSSA BARBIERI ON: JANUARY 29, 2020https://fangirlish.com/2020/01/29/arrow-oliver-queen-deserved-a-happy-ending/ Quote But why couldn’t Oliver have saved his family and then been reunited with them in life? Why couldn’t Oliver get to raise his children? Why couldn’t Oliver get to grow old with Felicity? Why did Oliver have to die? Why didn’t Oliver Queen get the happy ending he deserved? Of every damn hero in the Arrowverse, Oliver Queen deserved a happy ending. No one has suffered more. No one has sacrificed more. You figured he’d get a metaphorical “get out of death free card” considering his resume of pain, loss and suffering over the years. * * * But since they killed Oliver off, you think about what’s the next best thing. And that’s what Arrow gave us. They reunited Felicity with Oliver in the afterlife, much like Rose was reunited with Jack in Titanic. * * *The scene itself was absolutely stunning, heartfelt and left me sobbing. And even as Oliver and Felicity prepared for an eternity together, I couldn’t help but wonder what could’ve been if they’d been able to live their lives not dictated by a ridiculous crossover event. You could argue that Oliver did get somewhat of a happy ending — his children got to live and he was reunited with the love of his life. But if Oliver got to choose his happy ending, this wouldn’t be it. Oliver wouldn’t have chosen to be separated from his children. He would’ve chosen getting to raise his kids and grow old with his wife. Considering everything Oliver went through in his eight seasons of this show — and the five on Lian Yu — he deserved to get the happy ending he wanted. Edited January 29, 2020 by tv echo 3 Link to comment
tv echo January 30, 2020 Share January 30, 2020 (edited) From BuzzFeed's Nora Dominick... From Pure Fandom's Lynsey Neill... Edited January 30, 2020 by tv echo 3 Link to comment
tv echo January 30, 2020 Share January 30, 2020 (edited) Out of curiosity (but with some dread), I read GATV's review of 810 - it wasn't as bad as I expected, although I'm perplexed by the writer's belief that there are now two Felicitys... Arrow #8.10 “Fadeout” Series Finale Recap & Review Matt Tucker January 29, 2020http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-8-10-fadeout-series-finale-recap-review/ Quote And then, there’s Laurel. Ultimately, Oliver allowed his former love to rest — though somehow in the new continuity, Tommy’s memories/reality of her included them being married before she died — and the former Earth-2 Laurel keeps what she’s earned: her own place in this world. Sure, there have been some issues with Laurel’s characterization and their use of her throughout the series, either version. But she’s made her bones, and it was lovely to get another shared moment between Cassidy and Paul Blackthorne’s Quentin. * * *But what would the show be without reuniting its arguably strongest (as well as most divisive) element: the Olicity of it all. Whatever your mileage with the pairing, it was wonderful to see Emily Bett Rickards back to help close things out. It’s only proper. We were left with a cliffhanger of future Felicity traveling with the Monitor to some unknown locale or time to reunite with Oliver. Turns out, it was the afterlife. In a strange and fitting twist, a Felicity out of time and proper existence — the Felicity who would presumably be around in the new 2040 would be independent of the one who left last season — is able to join Oliver in a new existence for infinite time. It oddly resembles the circa 2012-13 world of the Arrowverse, but gives them a touchstone to connect. Having watched the retrospective special beforehand, I was affectionately reminded of the highlights of the two. I’ve had my criticisms of the relationship over the years, but two things that can’t be denied are the natural chemistry between Amell and Rickards, and that they have often found ways to display these two as true partners. To give them a sunset that honors that rang honest and well. Edited January 30, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
tv echo January 30, 2020 Share January 30, 2020 (edited) ‘Arrow’ Series Finale Review: “The Last Bow” BY: RAQUEL ON: JANUARY 29, 2020https://fangirlish.com/2020/01/29/last-bow-arrow-series-finale-review/ Quote This scene starts from the wrong premise from the beginning. It seems as if Laurel were an interchangeable clone, and if it is not Laurel of Earth 1, then there is Laurel of Earth 2 that serves the same purpose. This does no favors to the character. And all this makes no sense, because the very basis of the scene is wrong. Although Quentin insists on it, Laurel of Earth 2 was never his daughter. But, finally, we have already accepted this, so it’s not time to complain now. * * * And the time comes. The funeral of Oliver Queen, the hero of the city, arrives. Our hero. Everyone gathers in front of a grave and a tombstone in which they make it clear that there is no body inside. Which means that … OLIVER IS LIVE IN ANOTHER DIMENSION OR WORLD! YAAAS BITCH! I knew that, somehow, Oliver would live. * * * Another character who also ends his story is Tommy. He is alive now and we learned that he was married to Laurel of Earth 1 so, Merlance is endgame! In fact, that couple always made more sense than Oliver and Laurel (and had much more chemistry as well). The characters really fit (Tommy even gave his life for her) and their story was not toxic, as with Oliver. So I’m glad they decided to make it clear that Laurel’s fate … was Tommy. * * * After this emotional scene, we relive the scene we saw in 7×22 and Felicity goes with The Monitor to find Oliver. In that aspect, nothing has changed. She raised William and Mia and was hoping to be able to meet again with Oliver, living halfway, for her children, for 20 years. That time has passed and the time has come to meet the love of her life. She appears, young again, in the dimension in which Oliver is. At first, she is alone in Oliver’s office at Queen Consolidated. She immediately recognizes that office and just smiles. It’s so Oliver … he’s not there but his presence is everywhere, and that office reminds her of simpler moments, at the beginning of their relationship and she smiles with a mixture of happiness and nostalgia. * * *But what Felicity still doesn’t know is that this office has a special meaning for Oliver: it’s where he first saw her. The first person who made him smile. And this means, that the producers have made Oliver meet here with Felicity, it means that Oliver fell in love with Felicity in that moment, from the first moment he saw her, even though he couldn’t see it then. * * * She sees Oliver’s picture with her father, takes it and examines it, in a reflection of the first time Oliver saw her. It is at that moment when Oliver appears, looks at her and smiles, just smiles, happy to have her there, to be with her again and to remember that moment. The moment that changed everything for him. The moment he fell in love with a blonde girl with glasses who talked too much, was all light and made him smile for the first time in what felt like millennia. * * * Felicity is confused because, as far as she knows, they met in her IT cubicle but for Oliver it was different. It is a somewhat long story but, as Oliver tells her, they have all the time in the world, all eternity to spend together and he can tell her that one thousand stories. And a thousand more. All she wants, because Oliver doesn’t need to hide anything at all. And so, holding hands and contemplating through the window the eternity that awaits them together, Arrow ends. * * * And … OLICITY IS ENDGAME! THEY ARE IMMORTAL, LITERALLY! This is a wonderful ending for this couple. A wonderful gift for fans of this story and for those of us who believed in a happy ending. They have made it more than clear that Olicity was always THE couple. It is, in the words of the actors and producers, “the most important relationship of the show” and, once Felicity appeared, there was nothing more than Olicity. And this scene is an example of that. With that iconic red pen (which Oliver remembered in detail), the scene recreated by mixing the first two meetings, Oliver’s confession about the first time he saw her … the future full of possibilities. EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PERFECT FOR OLICITY. As to why I say they are immortal, Felicity appears in that rejuvenated dimension and Oliver is the same as when he died. It is as if they do not age and if they do not age … they do not die. The writers did THAT. THANKS, THANKS AND THANKS for betting on this story. Forever. * * *Was it the perfect ending? Not for me. I would have preferred that Oliver was alive in the same dimension as everyone else, that his closest friends knew and that he could have raised, along with Felicity, his children. But it has been satisfactory. * * * That is why I say that the ending is satisfactory, it is perfect, but in an imperfect way in which we do not achieve everything we dreamed but, at the same time, it feels right for the character and for the story, which keeps us satisfied … even if we had wanted something else, even if we had wanted more. It is a perfectly bittersweet finish. An fitting end, surprisingly. The way of telling and showing it has been the key to understanding that it has been a worthy end to the story, although I wanted something else. Edited January 30, 2020 by tv echo Link to comment
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