The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Midnight Lullaby]

I wouldn't have used "obstinate" to describe him but okay lol

[lemotomato]

"Immature, selfish, hypocritical jackass" takes too long to type.

[tv echo]

One last(?) JU interview - published prior to 612 airing...

Johann Urb On Making 'Arrow's Vigilante More Human
By RUSS BURLINGAME - February 1, 2018
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/02/johann-urb-arrow-interview-vigilante/

Quote

"You'll see some more of the history between Dinah and Vincent. The history between them is really, really rich," Urb told ComicBook.com. "The love is real, and the love is strong, and the love, I believe, is what really has unlocked a lot of Vincent, because I think for a long time he was just living to be Vigilante only. There's just revenge and anger there, and there's not a lot of connection in his life. Now that there is this discovering of the human side of him again, it changes you. It changes how you operate, and who you are, and what you do, and why you do things. That's the beautiful and wonderful story of that. I think that it's very natural that you have all those bits inside of you. It's just which part is activated, which part is awake and inspired in the moment."
*  *  *
"I wasn't given a whole lot of backstory on this, so I did a bunch of research myself," Urb admitted. "Obviously it's not exactly the same backstory, how it happened in the comic books and how it happens on the show. For me, it was just really interesting to get into the comic books and learn about what drives this guy and who he is, the characteristics, and the duality of him, and then also not to be stuck in that world so I can't make changes and adjust to what the show is writing me and giving me. It was just a very enriching experience for me to have so much to go from yet to be open to it going completely another route."

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Superhero Insider: The Arrowverse heroes face setbacks and tragedy
NATALIE ABRAMS and CHANCELLOR AGARD February 02, 2018 AT 03:14 PM EST
http://ew.com/tv/2018/02/02/superhero-insider-feb-2/

Quote

Arrow
...
Good riddance to Vigilante, welcome back Dark Dinah/Tina Boland. The one good thing to come out of the death of Vigilante is that it pushes Dinah down a very dark path that, she hopes, ends with killing Black Siren, who murdered Vince. This will no doubt lead to her clashing with not only Oliver, but also Quentin, who is still holding out hope that there’s still some good in his daughter’s doppelgänger. Since debuting last year, Juliana Harkavy has become a solid supporting character, but I’m glad the writers are giving her a storyline that will show off her more of her range. The end of this storyline will probably be heartbreaking, but I’m ready for the Black Siren vs. Black Canary war to begin. —C.A.
*  *  *
This Week’s Crossover Moments
- The Flash‘s Captain Singh appeared via flashback on Arrow.
- When Dwarfstar shrinks Cisco and Ralph, Iris tries to call Legends‘ Ray Palmer for help, but can’t reach him. So, she turns to Felicity for help.

Podcast: https://soundcloud.com/ewradio/superhero-insider-2

-- Kyle said that this season of Arrow has put him (Kyle) on an "emotional roller coaster" with his feelings about episodes changing every week and because he and Chance have disagreed a lot about episodes.

-- (eyeroll) Natalie still thinks that Black Siren can be redeemed, mentioning BS' reluctance to kill Vince. She also thinks Oliver could be pitted against Dinah over saving/killing BS.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Review: ‘Arrow: All For Nothing’ (Season 6 Episode 12)
FEBRUARY 2ND, 2018 BY NICHOLAS GRAFF
http://sciencefiction.com/2018/02/02/tv-review-arrow-nothing/

Quote

This week’s ‘Arrow’ had some pretty good moments, but it did bother me that one character, in particular, had a pretty strong reversal from her stance last week that pretty much dominated her story this week, and I am not sure it felt entirely earned. Of course, I’m talking about Dinah and her feelings toward Vinnie, but we’ll get into that in a bit. Otherwise, the episode was pretty solid, and I like how ‘Arrow’ is continuing to build up momentum every week in the back half of this season.

...  Team Arrow tracks down Vigilante and almost captures him, only to be stopped by Mr. Terrific and Wild Dog who are forced to come clean about Vinnie being their team’s informant, which does not sit well with Oliver and company, especially since Vigilante has been a thorn in their sides for so long. Yet Dinah has COMPLETELY changed her mind on Vinnie (remember last week where she REFUSED to work with him?) and vouched entirely for the man, even kissing him when they meet up privately, and they end up sending in Vinnie to do some digital subterfuge so Felicity can hack James’ network and try to find out where the big bomb is....

Throughout the episode, meanwhile, we get flashbacks to Dinah and Vinnie’s time in Central City being undercover cops, working together to take down a crime gang before she is uncovered and captured and she is forced to watch them execute Vinnie on the night of the STAR Labs particle accelerator explosion which gave them both their powers. It is an attempt to remind us of their history together, their skills at undercover crime work and their connection but still, it felt weird, especially after an episode of watching Dinah completely lose faith in Vinnie and be the last one to believe he was actually working undercover to bring down James. Still, it was nice to see some cameos from the police force in Central City (aka ‘The Flash’).
*  *  *
Aside from Dinah being so hot and cold about Vinnie from last episode to this one (and making her grief a little hard to buy), I did really like this episode, and I like the mounting tension between the two teams, especially as they try to work together and it becomes more and more clear that they NEED to work together, but it is not going to work if they do not find a way to make decisions they can all follow. I’m kind of looking forward to seeing Dinah go a little bit dark, but I hope they do not just make her another dark canary as I liked where they took her character and want to see her stick around....

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

29 minutes ago, tv echo said:

 

-- . She also thinks Oliver could be pitted against Dinah over saving/killing BS.

That would be a billion times more likely if Oliver and BS had ever shared a scene together this season. Its much more likely to end up DD vs Quentin right now. Nothing currently indicates Oliver gives a shit about BS and he's the one who just shot his own Nazi doppelganger.

[Morrigan2575]

44 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

That would be a billion times more likely if Oliver and BS had ever shared a scene together this season. Its much more likely to end up DD vs Quentin right now. Nothing currently indicates Oliver gives a shit about BS and he's the one who just shot his own Nazi doppelganger.

Absolutely, it's rather hilarious the lengths this show has gone to, to keep KC away from the main actors. EBR no scenes, DR one group fight scene, SA 2 group fight/actions scenes (one of which may have been his stunt double). Willa had one scene.

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, strikera0 said:

What is it with the salmon ladder obsession of these actresses? If I remember correctly, KC always wanted to do it, too, and even claimed that she can but for whatever reason, the show never let her. IMO, the ladies should be more concerned with getting proper writing for their characters - like maybe asking the writers/producers if they could write more than one emotional beat (in Dinah's case it's anger) for their characters in any given script. 

Sara did it in season two and no matter if Sara got the Black in front of her Canary, she is IMO the Gold Standard Canary so if she did it (and Caity REALLY did it) then I think the other actresses that are trying in their ways to measure up see it as one of those ways.  

I recall KC talking about wanting to do it and saying she could do it only for her later in an interview admitting she hadn't done it yet but only because SA hadn't shown her how yet.  Then he gave his normal explanation about a chin up with the something extra at the end.  

It's funny to me that Felicity had a shot at the salmon ladder.  Best chinning and upping and not laddering ever!

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: All For Nothing (Season 6 Episode 12)
February 2, 2018  Brianna Martinez
https://www.telltaletv.com/2018/02/arrow-review-all-for-nothing-season-6-episode-12/

Quote

There are some episodes that once you finish make you say, “now we’re heading somewhere!” This was that episode as it ends with new details about villains and a step forward.
*  *  *
Meanwhile, the newbies’ continued posturing when it comes to interacting with OTA is wearing thin. When you share information and collaborate on missions, is that not working as a team?

The only thing missing is the trust or attempt at rebuilding trust, which is clearly not something the newbies are willing to work on. But as the season continues, chances of being welcomed to the team shrink and so does my patience for their somewhat cavalier attitude towards OTA.

At this point, Dinah is the only newbie that has a story gaining traction, and I can sympathize with, as she deals with Vincent’s death and her plot for vengeance (which I am 100% here for, by the way).

The way she talks to Oliver about what her plans are is so very reminiscent of how Oliver would react in the earlier seasons.
*  *  *
If there’s one thing that comes of this whole story that I feel many can agree on, is the new development that any hope for a redemption arc for Black Siren is officially dead.

Despite the early attempts at rehabilitating a character that was always meant to be a villain but just looks like a late Earth-1 Star City citizen, the shift in position is welcoming.

She was a murderer before, and what she did to Vincent proves that she remains a murderer. Not every villain deserves a redemption arc (very few actually do, in fact).
*  *  *
It’s always fun to see Alena return to help OTA and Felicity. That camaraderie between her and Felicity is always fun. Her return also conveniently adds new pieces to the puzzle that spices the villain story up a bit more.
*  *  *
In the midst of moments of chaos with Cayden and the bomb, Oliver and Felicity’s quiet moment in the bunker is sweet, offering that show of support and lightheartedness that can balance out their darker moments.

Oliver and Felicity talking about honeymooning and Aruba was lovely but raised a red flag because I feel when anyone mentions about happy plans on Arrow, it’s a predictor of turbulent times to come. Perhaps an arrest? Jail time? But for who?

Edited February 3, 2018 by tv echo

[ladylaw99]

Thanks @tv echo, it could never be said enough

[tv echo]

Arrow 6x12 Recap: "All for Nothing" (A Whole Lotta Nothing) 
Contributor: Marilyn   February 3, 2018
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2018/02/arrow-6x12-recap-all-for-nothing-whole.html

Quote

The title is pretty much an indicator of the whole episode. Everything the team did was for nothing. Well. Almost. Felicity (with Alena for the assist) pulled a last-minute minor save but it feels like almost too little in the face of everything else that was lost.
*  *  *
... Vince tries to convince them that he’s on their side but Oliver isn’t buying it. He’s about to shoot him with an arrow when Curtis and Rene pop out and say that they’re working together. They were going to share that information... eventually. And I’m sure it’s not just me who finds that hugely hypocritical given the reasons NTA had for splitting off from OTA in the first place.
*  *  *
Now it’s NTA’s turn to come to OTA’s territory. And instead of saying something remotely polite, Curtis runs down the bunker. Ugh, I’m about done with Curtis. His arrogance is getting to be the worst thing ever. ...
*  *  *
... Over at Dinah’s place, she’s mourning Vince when there’s a knock at her door. It’s Oliver. He’s not there to apologize; he knows he was right to go after the bomb. But he’s also very sorry that Vince died. He tells her what they’ve learned about Cayden, and how they have some viable options for taking Cayden down for good. She doesn’t want to hear it. She’s ready to go back to being a killer and she plans to start with Black Siren. That’s the first smart thing she’s said in ages! I wish her the best of luck.

... While I wasn’t super invested in Vince and Dinah’s story or their relationship, I like how it set up a Canary vs. Siren showdown. Also, the NTA crew continues to act like jerks, while OTA smells like a rose. That feels like vindication to me.

Edited February 3, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A different opinion on 612 - this reviewer seems to be pro-NTA and anti-Oliver (I eye-rolled several parts of this review, but ymmv)...

Arrow Season 6 Episode 12 Review: All for Nothing
Delia Harrington   Feb. 2, 2018
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/270675/arrow-season-6-episode-12-review-all-for-nothing

Quote

Personally, I’m hoping for some sort of comeback from Vince, preferably powered by previously unforeseen metahuman abilities. First, I want Laurel and Quentin to be okay, and her not having murdered someone would be a huge help. Well really I want OG Laurel to not be dead, but that’s not happening so I’ll take what I can get. Beyond that, Vigilante is one of the more fascinating characters on the show right now, behind Dinah. The parallels between Vince and Oliver exist, but haven’t been directly noted by the other characters. If this is a season of Oliver shedding his ego and growing as a person and a leader, he needs to see his own hypocrisy. Dinah is good at pointing it out, as is the rest of her team, but Vincent/Vigilante is the living embodiment of it.
*  *  *
If anyone needed a class in how to give a real apology, it’s Oliver Queen. Luckily, all of his frustrating qualities are made more tolerable by the fact that Dinah doesn’t let him off the hook for anything. As she asserted point blank, if Felicity or Lyla were in danger, there would be no question. But Oliver has long treated other people’s loved ones as collateral damage, moving heaven and earth only for the select few who he deems worthy. If Vince really is dead, I hope Oliver learns from this, and from Dinah’s impending downward spiral, that he needs to be a better, more ethical and humble leader.
*  *  *
It’s also a bit hard to believe that Oliver couldn’t have found backup if he needed it. We’ve seen Felicity go into the field when necessary, and Quentin and Thea’s side mission was clearly over when the main action came underway. Yes, Thea has benched herself, but why not even ask? Or at least try to explain Quentin’s absence?

What did feel right and true was the new team’s continued loyalty to one another. It reinforced the commitment they’ve made to one another and the values upon which they founded their team. They understand the shortcomings of going after Vincent instead of saving the city, but they’re entirely up front about their motivations and decision-making, unlike Oliver. They also reach their decision collectively, whereas if Oliver were in Dinah’s position, he would have ordered his teammates to back him up.

Edited February 4, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

If you don't like the way IGN currently reviews Arrow episodes, here's your chance...

[way2interested]

Quote

It’s also a bit hard to believe that Oliver couldn’t have found backup if he needed it. We’ve seen Felicity go into the field when necessary, and Quentin and Thea’s side mission was clearly over when the main action came underway. 

Felicity and Lance totally could have beat up all of those mercenaries, and I'm sure that Thea could have caught multiple trucks, one of which had a bomb. (Even if you just forget that Lance and Thea are supposed to be handling all of the panic in the city). Even if Diggle was able to help Oliver while Thea was helping those hostages, Oliver still wouldn't have been able to get to the bomb. The reason they didn't even ask is because the whole point was just to show they are still overwhelmed, adding Thea, Lance, and Felicity in there would have just made it look worse instead of at least showing Oliver taking on all of those thugs at once.

Quote

They also reach their decision collectively, whereas if Oliver were in Dinah’s position, he would have ordered his teammates to back him up.

I can't imagine a situation where Oliver would order Diggle, Felicity, Thea, etc. to support his position and them being ok with doing that.

[lemotomato]

31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

A different opinion on 612 - this reviewer seems to be pro-NTA and anti-Oliver (I eye-rolled several parts of this review, but ymmv)...

Arrow Season 6 Episode 12 Review: All for Nothing
Delia Harrington   Feb. 2, 2018
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/270675/arrow-season-6-episode-12-review-all-for-nothing

I'm sure a check from JH/EK/RG is in the mail for Delia as we speak. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

A different opinion on 612 - this reviewer seems to be pro-NTA and anti-Oliver (I eye-rolled several parts of this review, but ymmv)...

Arrow Season 6 Episode 12 Review: All for Nothing
Delia Harrington   Feb. 2, 2018
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/270675/arrow-season-6-episode-12-review-all-for-nothing

Wow. I don’t even know where to start. 

Quote

Personally, I’m hoping for some sort of comeback from Vince, preferably powered by previously unforeseen metahuman abilities. First, I want Laurel and Quentin to be okay, and her not having murdered someone would be a huge help.

So forget about all the other people she killed? Including the guard who brought up his family and the fact Cayden told her she didn’t have to kill him? 

Quote

What did feel right and true was the new team’s continued loyalty to one another. It reinforced the commitment they’ve made to one another and the values upon which they founded their team. They understand the shortcomings of going after Vincent instead of saving the city, but they’re entirely up front about their motivations and decision-making, unlike Oliver. They also reach their decision collectively, whereas if Oliver were in Dinah’s position, he would have ordered his teammates to back him up.

NTA’s “loyalty” comes from Rene and Curtis wanting to go against OTA. Rene didn’t even think about his daughter’s life. They didn’t care about the bomb that can destroy the entire city. 

Also, I feel like Rene would sell out Curtis and Dinah to the FBI in a heartbeat. I almost want that to happen, just to see how they react. 

[apinknightmare]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

If anyone needed a class in how to give a real apology, it’s Oliver Queen. Luckily, all of his frustrating qualities are made more tolerable by the fact that Dinah doesn’t let him off the hook for anything. As she asserted point blank, if Felicity or Lyla were in danger, there would be no question.

If only there were video to show Dinah of Oliver telling Quentin in S2 that the city came first when he wanted Oliver to go get Laurel away from Slade ASAP AND video from the mansion of Oliver manipulating Slade into coming to pick up Felicity from the mansion as part of the plan to bring him down. Also, what specifically is Oliver supposed to be on the hook for? Dinah and her new BFFs decided that they could work as a team independently of Oliver and company. They couldn't complete their mission - that's their failure, not Oliver's. 

Everything about this storyline is so incredibly dumb.

[Midnight Lullaby]

“They understand the shortcomings of going after Vincent instead of saving the city, but they’re entirely up front about their motivations and decision-making, unlike Oliver.” This part is hilarious..am I supposed to be impressed? LOL. Sure, they don’t give a damn about the city but they are honest about it! My heroes!

[Hiveminder]

52 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

“They understand the shortcomings of going after Vincent instead of saving the city, but they’re entirely up front about their motivations and decision-making, unlike Oliver.” This part is hilarious..am I supposed to be impressed? LOL. Sure, they don’t give a damn about the city but they are honest about it! My heroes!

Lol. What motivation was Oliver not being up front about, exactly? His motivation was getting the bomb. Do they think Oliver was motivated by some passive aggressive need to let Team Can't Trust This's friend die to what, teach them a lesson? Get back at them for leaving his team and not accepting his apology? What kind of petty bitch do they think he is? They must not have been watching this season because Oliver is full on adulting. 

[tv echo]

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 104
Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres  02/05/2018   
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

--- Craig and Tatiana loved 611 the previous week, but found 612 this week to be a "slow and depressing episode." Tatiana's best part was that (now she believes) Black Siren is not going to be redeemed. Craig thought that 612 must have reminded JH of her days on The Walking Dead.

-- While Tatiana understands that the newbies are not going to forgive and forget quickly for OTA following them, they should've "tabled" their grievance until after they defeated Cayden James. She said that Oliver keeps trying to go halfway to meet them, but they keep acting in ways that aren't "conducive to the mission." 

-- Craig thought that there were "serious logic issues" and that they should've limited their search at the warehouse to the loading docks since they know the weapon is being moved around on a truck. Tatiana thought that Oliver should have had a trick arrow that could "splatter shot" GPS devices on all the trucks leaving the warehouse. She expected better tech.

-- Tatiana said that Black Siren screaming Vigilante's brains out was the show telling the audience that they weren't going to redeem her. Craig said that the show will probably have Quentin try all the harder to save her. Tatiana warned Laurel fans not to get their hopes up, but Craig thought that the show might still try to redeem Black Siren, especially if it turns out that Vince didn't really die.

-- They then speculated on who the mysterious mastermind could be.

Edited February 6, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

All for Nothing - Arrow Music Notes 6x12
Austencello   February 5, 2018
https://austencello.tumblr.com/post/170545864589/all-for-nothing-arrow-music-notes-6x12

Quote

Quentin Lance notices E2Laurel has begun following him and brings it up to Thea.  He is convinced that somehow she is scared to reach out but longing to do it nevertheless after their interactions in 5x09 when Black Siren let him go instead of murdering him.  Thea responds that they should reach out to her first as the harp plays the motif from “Working Together but Alone” (1x02) - Quentin and Laurel’s theme.  This has also been used for Quentin and Thea as she helped him deal with Laurel’s death in Season 5: “Offering Lance a Reason” and “Lance Goes to Rehab.”

They manage to stage a slideshow intervention as Black Siren follows Lance and then he shows her pictures of Laurel as a hero, trying to convince her that he sees good in her like his daughter. As he does so, the theme from “She was my rock” and “Laurel was Black Canary” (both 5x19) plays as a poignant reminder of who Laurel was to Quentin, his rock and a hero.  He wants to return that goodness to her doppleganger.  Black Siren seems caught-off guard, confused and a bit angry as she destroys the slideshow and leaves.  
*  *  *
The newbies failed to communicate that Vince was a double-agent to Team Arrow since last week. This lead to a tense ambush scene as Oliver and John attack Vigilante for information on Cayden James.  Vince takes off his mask to convince them he is on their side and it is only as Curtis and Rene arrives that Oliver does not shoot him with an Arrow.  As the confrontation happens, “Who is Vigilante?” (5x07 - also “Team meets Vigilante”) string patterns and underlying repeated electronic note plays. 
*  *  *
Oliver goes to Dinah’s apartment at the end to let her know that Vince didn’t die for nothing but they got new Intel to take Cayden James down.  Dinah, however, is consumed with rage and set on a path of vengeance, in the same way that she was the first time he died.  As they discuss this, a new piano melody plays, repeating many of the same notes, echoing her state of mind of grief.  Percussion enters and violin string patterns as she share her plan for revenge on Black Siren and all responsible.  A beautiful, angsty, and powerful piece of music for the end of the episode.
*  *  *
-why is it that some of my favorite scenes lack music? 
 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Popcorn Talk interview with RG (no real spoilers)...

I Could Never Be Rick Gonzalez - with Michael Clouse
Streamed live February 5, 2018, by Popcorn Talk

-- RG again compares Wild Dog to Wolverine or a Wolverine/Punisher hybrid (sarcastic, tough guy). He describes Wild Dog as a superhero who has had a lot of bad breaks and who has trouble getting along with other people because he's so angry, but he has a good heart and wants to do good. So he thinks people will root for him.

-- RG loves the team split story line and thinks that he, EK and JH are "bringing a new energy to the show." He said that OTA has always done things a certain way and has a "lot of hypocrisy" when they point the finger at others and don't point it at themselves. He thinks people will see both sides.

-- RG knows who killed Cayden James' son, but he can only say that fans will be surprised and that we'll find out who this person is "soon."

-- RG does read online tweets and knows what fans are saying. 

-- Blah, blah, blah. I didn't care enough to transcribe more.

Edited February 6, 2018 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- RG loves the team split story line and thinks that he, EK and JH are "bringing a new energy to the show." He said that OTA has always done things a certain way and has a "lot of hypocrisy" when they point the finger at others and don't point it at themselves. He thinks people will see both sides.

No. Just no. That's my only response to this.

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- RG loves the team split story line and thinks that he, EK and JH are "bringing a new energy to the show." He said that OTA has always done things a certain way and has a "lot of hypocrisy" when they point the finger at others and don't point it at themselves. He thinks people will see both sides.

I'm sure that's what the writers are selling him on. But that doesn't make it true. LOL

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- RG loves the team split story line and thinks that he, EK and JH are "bringing a new energy to the show." He said that OTA has always done things a certain way and has a "lot of hypocrisy" when they point the finger at others and don't point it at themselves. He thinks people will see both sides.

Interesting that the hypocrisy of pointing the finger at others and not at themselves is coming from the newbies. Ooops!

[strikera0]

Meh, all characters on Arrow are hypocrites because the stupid writers can't write anything else. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Meh, all characters on Arrow are hypocrites because the stupid writers can't write anything else. 

Generally I don't mind the characters being hypocrites - because it does happen often. But if you're going to make a whole storyline out of it, you better make sure the group you're writing as hypocrites are actually the hypocrites of the story. And here? They aren't. 

[kes0704]

Wow. All I can say is he is needs to start watching the same show I am because his take on the team split is not what I’m seeing on my screen.

At least OTA’s “hypocrisy” doesn’t include betraying a friend by turning them over to the FBI in return for something they want.

There is one thing he said that I do agree with, I am rooting for Wild Dog...to leave town and never come back again. 

[lemotomato]

17 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- RG loves the team split story line and thinks that he, EK and JH are "bringing a new energy to the show." He said that OTA has always done things a certain way and has a "lot of hypocrisy" when they point the finger at others and don't point it at themselves. He thinks people will see both sides.

-- RG does read online tweets and knows what fans are saying. 

Not sure how both these statements can be true. We're 3 episodes in to this split teams storyline and fan sentiment has only become more anti-newbies. If RG has been following twitter, he'd know that.

[Angel12d]

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- RG loves the team split story line and thinks that he, EK and JH are "bringing a new energy to the show." He said that OTA has always done things a certain way and has a "lot of hypocrisy" when they point the finger at others and don't point it at themselves. He thinks people will see both sides.

If the new energy means they're so incredibly frustrating and awful to watch then yes, this is correct. Otherwise NOPE. 

But again this just makes me wonder if we're really meant to be on the newbies side and if so, YIKES. These writers really are terrible at their jobs because I hate the newbies more than I ever did. 

[ladylaw99]

34 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- RG loves the team split story line and thinks that he, EK and JH are "bringing a new energy to the show." He said that OTA has always done things a certain way and has a "lot of hypocrisy" when they point the finger at others and don't point it at themselves. He thinks people will see both sides.

 

Sorry sweetheart, but this is a big fat NO.  

[calliope1975]

What a sweet, summer child who is completely misreading the room. Shine on, Sir, but you and your character are no Wolverine. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by calliope1975

[Morrigan2575]

27 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Not sure how both these statements can be true. We're 3 episodes in to this split teams storyline and fan sentiment has only become more anti-newbies. If RG has been following twitter, he'd know that.

Not just fan sentiment. I haven't seen many reviewers take up Team THAT's side either.

[DrSpaceman10]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think that RG, EK, and JH's acting is almost as big a problem as the writing. Rick delivers every line so angrily/bitterly, Juliana only has two expressions, angry or sultry (must be a Canary prerequisite), and Echo just can't pull off the fast rambling Felicity-type dialogue.

Add to that the actors' attitudes and there's no way I'll ever like them, no matter what happens with the writing. 

[Hiveminder]

Wolverine/Punisher hybrid?  If by Wolverine you mean weasel, and if by Punisher you mean frustrated crossing guard, then yeah. 

[Chaser]

I'm kind of perplexed as to why he thinks NTA is equal in fandom. Even if the writing was better, if I was a new actor on a long standing show I would assume the audience would favor the characters they already knew and loved in a conflict situation. These guys seem to think they are on the same level as SA, EBR, DR.

Did he only listen to the Reddit crowd? 

[WindofChange]

You know what really makes me angry about this interview? I mean other than Rick calling OTA hypocrites... It's the implication that the Newbies are totally blameless in this situation and this 'break-up' it's completely OTA's fault when in reality it wasn't. It was Rene who poisoned that well when he outed Oliver. HE was the one who created the distrust and the divide.

But ok... Stay bitter, Rick! That's sure going to get you more fans.

Edited February 6, 2018 by WindofChange

[KenyaJ]

When we finally get that Arrow Oral History years from now, I hope it includes a discussion of this storyline — what the writers thoughts they were doing and how it all went so terribly wrong.

[Midnight Lullaby]

We are aware he is reading people’s reactions..it’s painfully obvious at this point he can’t handle the criticism, lol

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

You know what makes me angry about this interview? I mean other than Rick calling OTA hypocrites... It's the implication that the Newbies are totally blameless in this situation and this 'break-up' it's completely OTA's fault when in reality it wasn't. It was Rene who poisoned that well for not coming to the team and asking for help when Watson threatened to take his daughter from him.

This interview makes me sad because after reading this along with the ones Echo gave, it's clear that the writers intend for us to see the newbies as the wronged party (and probably hoped that we'd root for OTA just because they've been around longest, and for the newbies because they're in the "right", and would therefore be conflicted). And what they're actually writing is about a million miles away from what they thought they were writing that it's baffling that they all have jobs. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

22 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think that RG, EK, and JH's acting is almost as big a problem as the writing. Rick delivers every line so angrily/bitterly, Juliana only has two expressions, angry or sultry (must be a Canary prerequisite), and Echo just can't pull off the fast rambling Felicity-type dialogue.

Add to that the actors' attitudes and there's no way I'll ever like them, no matter what happens with the writing. 

I totally agree. It’s especially a problem with Rene for me because of the way he speaks to Felicity. It isn’t just the line, it’s his tone..taking the Blondie nickname for example it could be taken (if Felicity didn’t tell him to stop) as affectionate teasing but he delivers his lines like Rene doesn’t respect Felicity at all so it’s even worse.

[WindofChange]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

This interview makes me sad because after reading this along with the ones Echo gave, it's clear that the writers intend for us to see the newbies as the wronged party (and probably hoped that we'd root for OTA just because they've been around longest, and for the newbies because they're in the "right", and would therefore be conflicted). And what they're actually writing is about a million miles away from what they thought they were writing that it's baffling that they all have jobs. 

I'm starting to lose hope that they won't make OTA the guilty party... It's ridiculous that they think OTA is actually the ones we'd be against in this specific scenario. It's not even a 'civil war' if they're going to paint only 1 party completely in the right and the other completely in the wrong.

[Angel12d]

Yeah, I have to admit I'm kinda dreading what they're gonna have OTA do to fix this team divide. I feel like they're gonna completely throw them under the bus. Way to guarantee my hatred for the newbies forever, show!

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

I'm starting to lose hope that they won't make OTA the guilty party... It's ridiculous that they think OTA is actually the ones we'd be against in this specific scenario. It's not even a 'civil war' if they're going to paint only 1 party completely in the right and the other completely in the wrong.

Well, going into 613, it might be 5 episodes in a row through 2 hiatuses where the writers haven't placed all of the blame on OTA, so I don't see where/why/when they'd start changing that. RG's words mean the same to me as EK's words: trying to defend his character and not much else so far. I do want to see what might happen with 616 on given the audience reaction though. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by way2interested

[KenyaJ]

If the writers intended for us to think NTA was in the right, why would they write them as such petty brats, though? Nearly every review I've read lately has acknowledged the difference between NTA's grievance-oriented interactions with OTA and OTA's business-like approach to dealing with NTA. Even if the writers misjudged where the audience's sympathies would lie, it boggles my mind if they thought the team with the morally superior position should also act like assholes about it.

[Midnight Lullaby]

This reminds me so much of the BMD..when people didn’t think what Oliver did was so noble and right they doubled down on it and they only made me resent Oliver and whoever was defending him at the time as a result, lol

[statsgirl]

The BMD and Susan being a good person.  At this point, I think that even if they make OTA the guilty party, the audience won't buy it. 

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

-- Blah, blah, blah. I didn't care enough to transcribe more.

Yeah, that pretty much covers it.

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Not sure how both these statements can be true. We're 3 episodes in to this split teams storyline and fan sentiment has only become more anti-newbies. If RG has been following twitter, he'd know that.

He probably gets a biased sample.  People who are pro NTA and/or hate Felicity are going to @ him with their praise.  He may see the negative response on the #Arrow site but the positives that he sees will outweigh that.

[tangerine95]

I still don't think it's OTA in the wrong as the intention but some dumb everyone is wrong type thing.Which also isn't true in this situation plus ota already apologized anyway so what are they still supposed to do..I really don't get what's to side with the newbies about.Like do they really expect the audience to judge OTA for running surveillance on them after being told someone on the team is about to send Oliver to jail?Because then they must think the audience is dumb since the team runs surveillance on anyone they suspect most episodes,we had Curtis tracking Felicity,it's just never been this morally awful thing on the show.Or are we supposed to think they have a point that Oliver should trust them as put them the same level as his wife and best friend?Because that one is just not a realistic demand at all.He'll always trust Digg and Felicity more and need them in ways he'll never need the newbies.I don't think there's anything that can change that.

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

I'm starting to lose hope that they won't make OTA the guilty party... It's ridiculous that they think OTA is actually the ones we'd be against in this specific scenario. It's not even a 'civil war' if they're going to paint only 1 party completely in the right and the other completely in the wrong.

I don't think they've painted OTA completely in the wrong - Oliver has already acknowledged that he wronged them and explained why he did it and asked them if they could move on. Right now the newbies still seem to be (based on the script, so far) righteously angry over it. Who even knows how they're going to ~fix it. Some combo of Oliver demonstrating trust in them again (even though Dinah and Rene haven't done anything to earn it back), and NTA deciding that they're better off united and they just get over it, I guess. Or Oliver, Felicity and Diggle each demonstrate trust in the newbies that's sufficient enough for them to decide to bury the hatchet. 

I'm counting on the resolution being flimsy (and perhaps angry making), though. 

[KenyaJ]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm counting on the resolution being flimsy (and perhaps angry making), though. 

Me too. But I'm hoping the fan reaction will convince them to leave the teams permanently separated, with a more cooperative, less pissy attitude from NTA.