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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Do the ratings include DVR takings?

no. They don't it's just live ratings. They add DVR ratings later. Like people who watch the DVR recording, not people who just record it. 

 

yeah my links never work. Don't know what's wrong with my link making skills. lol

Edited by ban1o
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Artsda

Artsda

Killing Sara and going full throttle with Laurel, was a huge mistake. I don't understand why they think propping KC/Laurel is worth so much a loss for the show. The ratings dropped half way with people tuning out too, can't blame them with the amount of Laurel last night.

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ban1o

ban1o

Killing Sara and going full throttle with Laurel, was a huge mistake. I don't understand why they think propping KC/Laurel is worth so much a loss for the show. The ratings dropped half way with people tuning out too, can't blame them with the amount of Laurel last night.

where did you get the half hour ratings? Can't seem to find them. 

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ban1o

ban1o

Its still important because their budget might get cut again like after S1.

That's true, hopefully not though.  Hopefully The Flash crossover will give it a boost. (assuming Flash maintains it high ratings) 

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I think that if you have a DVR and watch the complete episode from your DVR recording without fast-forwarding you are somehow counted in ratings, but these ratings are not released.  I guess that it's best to watch the episode within three days but you also count in there if you watch it within a week.  Here's what @bravelittletoaster said about DVR viewing in another thread: 

 

Actually if you're not a Neilsen household your DVR is going to give them more props than live viewing would.  But if you really want to fuck with them, DVR it, find some other method of watching it if you must, and then delete it unwatched after a week.  Heh.  [They track all that data and I know from a friend who works in network tv that the deleted unwatched show is the ultimate black mark.]

 

 

So if you want to watch but don't want to contribute to ratings, record the episode onto your DVR but watch it live on a non-DVR TV set and then delete the unwatched episode off of your DVR after a week. 

 

I'm expecting ratings to go down for next week's episode based on the fact that there was very little Olicity stuff and lots of Laurel stuff.  Just my opinion, and a complete guess so I could be absolutely wrong on that.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Whoa, that share dip to 0.8/2 in the second half is even more telling than the 20% overall drop from the premiere. It means people turned off their TVs on Arrow rather than find something else to watch. Audiences tend to do that when the show pisses them off.

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Chaser

Chaser

Even if the ratings were only decent by CW standards, as long as it mantains a strong social media presence I would think the show would be fine.

 

I would be more concerned that Arrow was trending all over the place during that first episode, but this episode only saw two (Olicity was everywhere and Komodo trended for a couple mins).

 

I know that Laurel meets Ted in the next episode, but I didn't get the impression it was supposed to be Laurel-heavy. I thought it was all Malcom, Thea, Oliver and Diggle.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

I think that if you have a DVR and watch the complete episode from your DVR recording without fast-forwarding you are somehow counted in ratings, but these ratings are not released.  

I think sometimes they are released. I know for The Flash premiere they released the DVR ratings. Don't know if it's a usual thing. 

Edited by ban1o
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

Yeah, pretty much every network is releasing their SD and L+3 numbers regularly now. They usually show up 4-5 days after airing.

 

I see.  I thought that you only counted in the released numbers if you had a Nielsen's box. 

 

In the A18-49 ratings, what does the 2 in 0.8/2 mean? 

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Artsda

Artsda

Whoa, that share dip to 0.8/2 in the second half is even more telling than the 20% overall drop from the premiere. It means people turned off their TVs on Arrow rather than find something else to watch. Audiences tend to do that when the show pisses them off.

Exactly, the fact people had enough and tuned out says a lot. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

I'm not surprised the ratings went down. Killing Sara last week was brutal and horrible and if I wasn't invested in other characters/relationships as much as I am now I wouldn't have watched either. It wasn't surprising that only Komodo trended towards the end of the episode either. That says a lot IMO.

Edited by Angel12d
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Sakura12

Sakura12

Having Laurel find Sara's dead body meant a Laurel heavy episode. So it seems quite a few people were like me and decided to skip seeing Sara stuffed deeper into the garbage so Laurel can have more screentime. 

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Chaser

Chaser

I'm amused by the ratings to be honest. I love that the first episode, which was promoted with Olicity, Team Arrow, and Sara's return, got some of their best ratings in awhile and the episode promoted by Sara's death, KC and Laurel took a rather significant dive.  

 

I really hope the ratings and the trending go up for next episode. That would be the best.

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

(edited)

 

I'm not surprised the ratings went down. Killing Sara last week was brutal and horrible and if I wasn't invested in other characters/relationships as much as I am now I wouldn't have watched either.

And I wonder what effect this week's episode will have on the next one. I think that "The Calm" had enough going for it so that it made people want to watch again. "Sara"...I don't know.

Since around 48 minutes into S1, the show fridged Sara, broke-off Felicity and Oliver and treated them in a way that seems to leave many viewers scratching their heads, broke up/damaged Team Arrow, and pushed front and center a quite divisive/popularity-challenged character (I'm sorry, but I didn't see those huges droves of Laurel fans tuning in, in spite of the media hoop-la around the character and her storyline since last week). From the comments I saw here, story-wise 3x02 had plot holes big enough to sink twenty Amazo-sized cargos, and atmosphere-wise, it was so gloomy that it would make "Man of Steel" pass for "American Pie".

For me, there was something epic, something exciting, something positive about the beginning of S2, which  created a buzz in the media and a word of mouth thanks to enthusiastic viewers. I don't see it anymore. S2 was imo full of possible directions for the plot, you didn't know what to expect, it could go anywhere. Now, the big mystery is...who is responsible for the gruesome murder of a kickass, well-liked female character? (And you know that it doesn't matter, because she was killed for her sister). I think it will be quite difficult to generate a media-hype.

 

I also wonder how they're going to promote next week. Thea and Malcolm was a storyline I was looking forward to, and the next episode seems big on them, but I'm aware that my beloved Thea is also a divisive/popularity challenged character, and isn't prone to attract viewers as much as I wish she did...especially since it won't be enough even for me, already.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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Password

Password

For me, there was something epic, something exciting, something positive about the beginning of S2, which  created a buzz in the media and a word of mouth thanks to enthusiastic viewers. I don't see it anymore.

I agree and I'm really trying to figure out what made season 2a so exciting. That aura is just gone.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

io9 has an amusing take on this last episode.

 

Making fun of Laurel, and kind of hoping that the show is making fun of her, even though I personally doubt the writers have the ability to see why she sucks so badly. I love the comparison they draw between 50 Shades of Grey and Ray Palmer's stalking of Felicity. Wonder if that will make anyone rethink the 'romance' of it.... Eh, probably not. But it amuses me that these writers are now stealing ideas from the trashiest elements of pop culture.

 

Oh, and yay to the shitty ratings. Wouldn't it be great if this woke the writers up to the mistakes they've made? Though I know they'll just blame something else and carry on regardless.

Edited by Danny Franks
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I'm not watching live. My boycott in memory of Sara.

Ratings confuse me though. So many people I know delibratly start shows 20 min in just to FF commercials. So those viewings wouldn't count?

 

I'm not sure, but I think that if you fast forward, it might still count partially towards the ratings?  Many times I will wait about a minute until after my show begins and then begin DVR playback and not fast forward through anything, letting the show play completely to the end.  I was under the impression that would count towards ratings, but it is all very confusing.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Ratings confuse me though. So many people I know delibratly start shows 20 min in just to FF commercials. So those viewings wouldn't count?

 

It's... complicated. For advertisers? No. For networks looking to spin DVR success? Yes.

 

There are different numbers involved in time-shifted viewing. SD [same Day viewing], L+3 [watching in up to 3 days] and L+7 [up to 7 days] are counting all the folks watching on DVR regardless of whether they're seeing the commercials Those are the numbers we're getting regularly now, but they come from network press releases that are basically congratulating their shows on having a nice % of folks watching them within a week of live airing. These numbers don't mean anything to advertisers, though.

 

They do track the folks actively watching ads on DVR, and a few years ago, the industry reached a compromise that it's the up to 3-day shifted viewing that matter. That's the C+3 rating, but it's not usually released 'cause it doesn't really provide that good of a PR spin. But it's that C+3 number that counts when prices for ads in prime time are decided, and also in setting up budgets for the shows.

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ban1o

ban1o

Oh, and yay to the shitty ratings. Wouldn't it be great if this woke the writers up to the mistakes they've made? Though I know they'll just blame something else and carry on regardless.

The ratings aren't shitty. Arrow is still currently the 3rd highest rated show on CW behind The flash and Supernatural. It just dropped a little bit from last week. 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

The ratings aren't shitty. Arrow is still currently the 3rd highest rated show on CW behind The flash and Supernatural. It just dropped a little bit from last week. 

 

The third rated show on the CW is nothing to crow about. And those ratings are as bad as they were for the show all last season. But besides that, it's the mid-episode drop that counts for the most. As has been said, when people turn off part way through the episode, then it's a safe bet that they're not particularly enamoured with what they're watching. It's not like they can pretend it's just an overrun, either. Because as I understand it, the CW only starts broadcasting at 8pm. So people tuned in specifically to watch Arrow, and then a whole bunch tuned out.

Edited by Danny Franks
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Velocity23

Velocity23

But its not good. Especially when you compare it to S2. In S2 Arrow premiere with a 0.9 and then the 2nd episode got a 1.1. This season they started with a 1.0 which was higher then S2 premiere & finale. But it droped to a 0.8 by the 2nd episode. And in the coming weeks the ratings might drop due to the World Series. So it might be concerning a bit.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

The drop might send a message though, that viewers are not happy with the direction the show is going. I can dream anyway.

Except that they already have 9 episodes in the can. Hopefully the next several episodes will be significantly better quality-wise (hey, I can dream) or they may end up hemorrhaging viewers before they logistically have a chance to correct course.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Oh, i09, you've warmed the cockles of my cold, black heart with your snark.

 

They are good. Their Sleepy Hollow recaps are pure gold, especially Irving's moustaches.

 

But this cracks me up:

 

Secondly, when Felicity, still upset over Sara's death, upbraids Ray, he tells her that he can tell she isn't really angry with him, she's angry over something else. You're not really feeling what you're feeling, Felicity! You're feeling what I say you're feeling! Also, while you're crying and vulnerable, consider me a shoulder to cry on and your sole means of financial support!

 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

(edited)

 

It just dropped a little bit from last week.

It still makes a 20% drop (unless my genetic suckitude at maths strikes again).

Not worrying if it's just a fluke.

But 1) it was the launch of "Laurel's journey as the Black Canary", which was heavily promoted as a significant arc for S3 and for the show in general and 2)  even if you don't read/listen to any media outlet and just watch the show, the writing was on the wall from the moment Sara died. And yet 1) the show didn't get new viewers 2) around 20% of people who watched the premiere didn't come back, contrary to what happened in the previous seasons.

So I don't think it's promising, or even encouraging either.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

It still makes a 20% drop (unless my genetic suckitude at maths strikes again).

Not worrying if it's just a fluke.

But 1) it was the launch of "Laurel's journey as the Black Canary", which was heavily promoted as a significant arc for S3 and for the show in general and 2)  even if you don't read/listen to any media outlet and just watch the show, the writing was on the wall from the moment Sara died. And yet 1) the show didn't get new viewers 2) around 20% of people who watched the premiere didn't come back, contrary to what happened in the previous seasons.

So I don't think it's promising, or even encouraging either.

We should wait and see how it drops in future weeks though. Maybe the season premiere was artificially inflated because of The Flash, hence the drop. The majority of season 2 had about a 0.7-0.9 rating. Sure it'snot the most promising drop but I want to wait before I say that it's because people don't like direction the show is going in. 

Edited by ban1o
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Velocity23

Velocity23

Why would it be artificially inflated because of the Flash? Arrow was getting a 1.0 all through the fall/winter portion of S2. its not like it jumped to their highest rating. Its a rating Arrow is able to get on its own. Why do you think the Flash is responsible for the higher S3 premiere rating'

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Why would it be artificially inflated because of the Flash? Arrow was getting a 1.0 all through the fall/winter portion of S2. its not like it jumped to their highest rating. Its a rating Arrow is able to get on its own. Why do you think the Flash is responsible for the higher S3 premiere rating'

Ratings usually drop from season to season. The Flash thing was just a guess, I'm not really sure. Maybe due to Arrow's cameo in the flash, people checked out the arrow premiere? Again I would rather just wait and see how the next few weeks go before saying that people are not watching because they don't like the direction of the show. 

Edited by ban1o
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Velocity23

Velocity23

Not necessarily. I know everybody expected the Arrow premiere to be at least a 1.0. That had nothing to do with Flash.  A 0.8 is low for Arrow. I think the lowest rating is a 0.7 and that was after a break in the Spring and then it slowly worked itself back to a 0.9 for the finale. I hate the fact that if Arrow rises people assume it has to do with the Flash.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

101 - 1.3 / 4.14

102 - 1.3 / 3.55

 

201 - 0.9 / 2.74  <-- Matched S1 finale in both demo and viewers

202 - 1.1 / 3.06

 

301 - 1.0 / 2.8 <-- Up from S2 finale in both demo and viewers

302 - 0.8/ 2.25 <-- tied 2.04 in the demo 0.8 and dropped in viewers - Up against game 6 of WS - stupid BoSox

 

For this week, The Originals held steady in the demo from it's premiere, Supernatural dropped by 1 tenth in the demo (1.1 to 1.0) which actually puts it right in line with it's demo from 902 last year.   In fact yesterday TVBTN hosted a poll to guess what Arrow would do  http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/10/15/will-arrow-hit-its-ratings-target-tonight-poll/315376/

 

So far,  The CW's shows have held up well from week-to-week. The second episode of The Flash earned a 1.6 adults 18-49 rating, catapulting the network to third place for the night. Supernatural only dropped a tenth from its premiere, garnering a 1.0 adults 18-49 rating. The Originals held 100 percent of its 0.7 adults 18-49 premiere rating. Will Arrow continue the trend? Last week it premiered to a 1.0 adults 18-49 rating. How do you think it will fare this week? Make your prediction!

 

 

So Arrow dropping 2 tenths is an aberration for both the show (based on past performance) and the network, based on the weekly performance of other shows.  Reign also held steady in the demo from 201 to 202, EDIT: Even Vampire Diaries only dropped 1 tenth between premiere and 2nd episode...I forgot to check the finals where it adjusted up to a 0.8 in the demo.

 

Do we know why the ratings dropped?  Nope, we can spin it anyway we want but the fact is the ratings dropped and dropped significantly for this show and this network.  

 

Also there is no way a drop in ratings on The Flash would affect Arrow, Arrow is the established show not The Flash.  The Flash also had a less than normal drop for a series premiere to 2nd episode (it held up really well).  Not to mention that the only show that would really be affected by The Flash would be Supernatural, if Supernatural was lead-in dependent, which it isn't.  A change in The Vampire Diaries doesn't affect The Originals or vice versa.  They're independent shows on separate nights.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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wonderwall

wonderwall

So it looks like the ratings dipped  to a 0.8 from a 1.0. To be honest I'm actually surprised. I assumed they would stay the same or go up due to first epiosdes pretty shocking ending and last year the second episodes ratings went up. A 0.8 is still good for the CW though I guess. 

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/ratings-news-16th-october-2014.html 

It still might adjust up though with finals. 

What I actually hate is that over on TVline there are people blaming 'olicity' for the drop. Actually blaming one element of an episode is just plain wrong. 

 

Drop could've also been because:

  • People liked Sara and her death was a really shitty
  • More Laurel
  • Diggle possibly out of the team?! 

I don't think the reason was solely Olicity because it was heavily advertised over the summer and Arrow came back up. The thing that people complained about the most wasn't Olicity, it was actually Sara dying as well as Laurel becoming BC. 

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writersblock51

writersblock51

The mid-episode drop is something that the advertisers will be looking at closely - and while the show can't adjust what episodes they've already wrapped up, the advertisers can make some noise.  Especially those with slots in the 2nd half of the episodes.  They have every right to be concerned.

 

Twitter trends are pretty meaningless in terms of what advertisers look for, I suppose.  The the EPs and stars seem to like when positive trends are happening.  The season premiere had MANY trends going on (either with the show or Olicity).  Olicity had a trend yesterday afternoon.  Komodo trended briefly during the episode.   KC seemed to want a specific hastag to trend but it didn't happen.

 

Blaming 1 particular element of 1 episode is all sorts of problematic when assessing viewing habits. The upcoming weeks will see if a pattern develops.
 

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Arrow rises people assume it has to do with the Flash

Why? I didn't assume, it was just a theory. :) 

 

Again I'll wait and see how it does in future weeks. I don't think 0.8 is that low. It could just be where Arrow is right now. The ratings dropped in the second season from the first and the ratings could also drop from in the third season from the second. 

 

Blaming 1 particular element of 1 episode is all sorts of problematic when assessing viewing habits. The upcoming weeks will see if a pattern develops.

 

I agree 100% with this. Also these aren't even the final ratings. TVD last Thursday and The Flash yesterday both adjusted up from a 0.7-0.8 and from a 1.6-1.7 respectively. It's still possible Arrow could adjust up later today :) 

Edited by ban1o
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