The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

Does make you wonder when the EPs decided to bring Sara back from the dead and make her the Canary...

50 Actors Who Were Casually Replaced on Their Own TV Shows
by MEHERA BONNER   NOV 23, 2019
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/tv/g29822724/actors-replaced-recast-tv/?slide=21   

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Black Canary From Arrow
Jacqueline MacInnes Wood played Black Canary during Arrow’s pilot episode but was rumored to be too busy to continue the job. The role eventually went to Caity Lotz, woman who can fully pull off an eye mask.

Edited November 25, 2019 by tv echo

[JJ928]

Saw this on twitter but didn’t see it posted here. 
 

looks like they’re doing an Arrowverse COIE comic. I know it says it’s not the final cover but it looks like it’ll include Felicity. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1779505108/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_apa_i_bl.2DbMX67HBK

[tv echo]

Arrow Dropped Another Monitor Reveal For Crisis On Infinite Earths, And I’m Confused
Laura Hurley  November 26, 2019
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2485711/arrow-dropped-another-monitor-reveal-for-crisis-on-infinite-earths-and-im-confused 

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So, why am I confused? It's certainly not that Arrow and the Arrow-verse bamboozled me into believing that The Monitor and not The Anti-Monitor was the baddie trying to destroy infinite Earths, as I've read the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" arc from DC Comics. No, I'm confused because the latest reveal feels like a proof that Arrow has been taking a step back for every step forward all season, and Oliver isn't in a very different place at the end of Episode 6 than he was at the end of Episode 1. And there are only ten episodes in Season 8!

Yes, his kids did travel back in time to hang out with their dad as adults, and that's definitely new. But Oliver started the season believing he needs to die to stop the Crisis, and he now has returned to the conclusion that he needs to die to stop the Crisis. This is the very last season of the show that started the entire Arrow-verse for The CW, and it deserved to be something spectacular.

... I have a hard time believing the series will end on a huge downer after giving Oliver heartbreak after heartbreak over a span of 13 years. Hopefully Arrow clears things up for me in the best way. After all, I was pleasantly surprised by the Season 8 premiere, which is responsible for leading me to the conclusion that the "Crisis" crossover will be fantastic rather than drowning in cameos, and the latest episode of The Flash proved that I can admit when I'm wrong.

Edited November 27, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ 8×06 Review: “Reset”
BY: RAQUEL  ON: NOVEMBER 27, 2019 
https://fangirlish.com/2019/11/27/reset-arrow-review/ 

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Quentin confesses that she is a hero for him (something I don’t understand, because before her change, she was a cold-blooded killer but, again, we accept it so we can move on). Laurel can only say “thank you.” Thank you for everything. For believing in her, for always thinking she was better than she was, for helping her change and especially for loving her like her daughter, for giving her a father again. He was everything to her, and she makes sure he knows.
*  *  *
It is a beautiful scene, based on a very weak premise. We have to forget too many things about the argument for this to fit and make us emotional.
*  *  *
The most special and emotional scene for me of the entire episode is the farewell of Oliver and his children, once he realizes he must let them go. He won’t be there for them, and he knows it, so he just wants to … say goodbye. Tell them how much they mean to him and what the time they have shared together has meant. It has been a gift, a precious but temporary gift. A gift with an expiration date. The universe is thanking him for so much sacrifice over the years … but it’s time to pay the price. They have very little time left. Everyone needs more. His children need more, he needs more … they need a lifetime … but they don’t have it.
*  *  *

Oliver in this scene does the hardest thing a father can do: let his children go. It’s a beautiful and heartbreaking scene … but too short. We had a full scene of the farewell between Laurel and Quentin, but this farewell has barely lasted a minute. I liked the Laurel/Quentin scene but as a spectator, and fan I care much more about the farewell of Oliver and his children and it is the one that they have dedicated less time to. That is the only downside, because the rest is perfect.
*  *  *
In conclusion, this episode has been the worst of what we have been a good season, by far. I don’t like “Groundhog Day” because I find it too repetitive, and boring to always repeat the same series of scenes with some minimal variation. The episode has been clearly inspired by this movie, so you can imagine how little I enjoyed it.

In addition, I don’t like the episodes of the series that deal with any daydream or imaginary world … so the episode has had another point against it.

There has been no … emotion in the episode. I have practically felt nothing. There is no tension, no scenes that mirror those of previous episodes. There have been very specific scenes that have been emotional, but nothing compared to what they can actually do, and most of them too fast for even a tear to form. The action has also not been a strong point in this episode.

It’s as if … the scenes were cut in half. They have good material to work with, but they only scrape the surface and don’t deal with the conflict in depth, and it is that depth that really interests us.
*  *  *
Despite this, it has been a pleasure to see Paul again, and witness the farewell of his character and, of course, see David’s work as director. Hopefully direct more episodes throughout his career.

Edited November 28, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Reset (Season 8 Episode 6)
November 27, 2019  Brianna Martinez
https://telltaletv.com/2019/11/arrow-review-reset-season-8-episode-6/ 

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Oliver’s no stranger to being resigned to his fate, whatever that may have been at specific points in his life. But even with that resignation, there were moments of hope that his fate wasn’t precisely as fixed as it could be.

It’s that exact bit of hope that must be extinguished, in a sense, and the reason behind the loop.
*  *  *

Quote

Oliver:  Why did he involve my children?
Lyla: Time is a gift.

There’s something about Lyla’s words that hit so incredibly hard and a sentiment that is honestly poignant beyond the series. It’s an emotional highlight of the hour, joining Oliver’s last conversation with his kids as he explains how proud he is of all 3 FTA members.
*  *  *
David Ramsey does a beautiful job directing his second hour, with a solid cinematographer to convey the helplessness and absolute resignation Oliver faces throughout.
*  *  *
-Seeing Future Team Arrow getting a chance to just be normal kids, for at least a while, is bittersweet.

Edited November 28, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Clock Tower: Another Week, Another Batch of Arrowverse Shows That Make us Openly Cry
Posted on Friday, November 29th, 2019 by Amelia Emberwing
https://www.slashfilm.com/arrowverse-recap-november-29/ 

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Oliver’s submission is somehow even harder to watch than Barry’s. That may be because we all know his is going to be much more permanent, or that it came with a lot less yelling. Either way, it sucked. A beautiful episode filled with heartbreak showed us the man who has never once listened to his fate submit that perhaps it’s time he does. And I don’t know if I’m ready for that? 

We know he’s done. The quiver’s getting passed to Mia, and Future Team Arrow will take the reigns after the Crisis. But I don’t know if an Oliver who just accepts what’s coming almost feels like a harder watch than one who will go into Crisis the same way he always has: fighting with every last breath to do what’s right. Up to and including being around for his family. Then again, seeing him reach some surreal version of acceptance might be so hard because I’m just not there in the grieving process yet. Who knows! 

What matters most here is that both of these heroes’ responses are totally reasonable. One dude literally just has a bow and arrow and suddenly he’s expected to fight some unbeatable cosmic entity? What? Who looks that in the eye and fights for as long as he has. What’s he supposed to do? He literally just has a sharpened stick, some string on a bow, and a can-do attitude. Meanwhile you’ve got poor Barry Allen who, yes, has a little bit more going for him in the superpowers department. But the poor dude has literally watched his friends and family die infinite times. His daughter’s ashes literally rained down on him not a year ago. He has got some stuff going on and he’s kind of totally right to just be like, “y’know? No. I don’t wanna.”

Edited November 30, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Is Arrow Hero a Quick-Change Artist? How Did Today Flub This Is Us Q&A? Was H50 Timey-Wimey? And More Qs!
By Vlada Gelman, Matt Webb Mitovich, Michael Ausiello, Kimberly Roots, Dave Nemetz, Ryan Schwartz and Charlie Mason / November 29 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/11/29/arrow-season-8-laurel-black-siren-canary-costume-tv-questions-answers/ 

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10 | On Arrow, during her and Oliver’s first trip through the time loop together, when did Laurel change from fundraiser party dress outfit to bomb-defusing Black Siren costume, when every precious second counted?

Edited November 30, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The December 2019 print issue of Entertainment Weekly has this two-page spread of pop culture icons from the past decade - you can see Green Arrow in about the center of the right page...

Edited November 30, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

They were "very bored" with 806 but liked Paul Blackthorne's "two great speeches" - also, Jen noted (and I agree) that the time loop would've been a lot more fun if Felicity had been in the episode...

Watchover with Jen and Calli
Watchover Ep 57 - Arrow 8x06 Discussion
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/watchover-with-jen-and-calli/e/65597106

Edited December 1, 2019 by tv echo

[AES13]

The 11 superheroes who defined the decade onscreen, from Iron Man to one of the Watchmen

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/11/26/iron-man-one-watchmen-here-are-superheroes-who-defined-decade-onscreen/?utm_campaign=post_most&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

Edited December 1, 2019 by AES13

[lemotomato]

30 minutes ago, AES13 said:

The 11 superheroes who defined the decade onscreen, from Iron Man to one of the Watchmen

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/11/26/iron-man-one-watchmen-here-are-superheroes-who-defined-decade-onscreen/?utm_campaign=post_most&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

It's behind a paywall, so here's the part about Arrow:

Quote

Green Arrow (Stephen Amell)
Oliver Queen, the billionaire playboy turned vigilante archer on the CW’s “Arrow,” emphasized that superheroes could work well on television, too. When Stephen Amell donned the comics’ famous Green Arrow mask at the end of Season 2, it was a big bang of sorts for the DC Comics-inspired “Arrowverse”: The show got a little geekier, and the CW greenlit connected shows such as “The Flash” and “Legends of Tomorrow.” No other television network currently boasts such an expansive superhero lineup, and there’s no denying Amell is the godfather of what the CW has been able to accomplish with DC characters.

Amell’s man under the mask was haunted by family trauma, but far from a blond Bruce Wayne, Queen was much more lethal before settling into being a hero with a code. His salmon-ladder workouts were a clinic in how to frame the superhero physique, and he managed to use a catchphrase (“You have failed this city”) that was actually intimidating, not corny. And few big-time superhero actors have been as engaging with fans on social media.

Clearly, if you’re able to make the Green Arrow — not an A-list superhero by any means — work on television for eight seasons, you’re doing things right.

SA/GA and Regina King's Sister Night from Watchmen were the only TV superheroes with their own write up.

[apinknightmare]

Katie's biggest stan gave her a nice review here:

https://tvline.com/2019/12/01/arrow-final-season-8-mvp-laurel-lance/

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Going into the final season of Arrow, we knew that Oliver would do the Monitor’s bidding; Diggle would have his buddy’s back more than ever; and Mia & Co. would be doing that 2040 thing they do.

But no one could have foreseen the rich character development that Earth-Two’s Laurel Lance would undergo, in almost every episode to date. The result has been one of the most enjoyable aspects of Arrow‘s 10-episode farewell run.

To be clear, Earth-Two’s Laurel (played by original cast member Katie Cassidy Rodgers) hasn’t alwaysbeen served well in her Arrow existence. (The doppelgänger first popped up on The Flash, remember.) During Arrow Season 5, she was an unexpected ally of Adrian Chase and part of the larger mind eff Prometheus pulled on Oliver. Season 6, however, struggled to make her more than one of (ugh) Ricardo Diaz’s henchmen, until the show began exploring the friction between her and Dinah and the non-biological bond between her and “our” Laurel’s father, Quentin. In Season 7, sparked by Quentin’s heroic death (in the course of saving her), Laurel passed herself off to Star City as her Earth-One counterpart, and the character’s true evolution got underway — to the point that she would earn Felicity’s qualified endorsement and even help Team Arrow during its final showdown with Emiko.

And yet Arrow, with its shortened final season and amid all the Crisis prep, has found time to nuance the character further. Starting with the season opener, we saw how Laurel had formed her own crimefighting vigilante duo on Earth-Two, alongside Chase’s own doppelgänger. Episode 2 then went deep on Laurel’s reaction to her Earth being destroyed — and her processing of Lyla’s suggestion that “this world needs you, too.” (Cue Performer of the Week honorable mention for KCR.) In Episode 4, Laurel had occasion to school a time-transplanted Mia on the ways of revenge, while Episode 5 found moments where even Anatoly was prompted to make note of how this onetime villainess had changed her spots.

Most recently, Arrow‘s time-loopy Episode 8×06 set the stage for Laurel to reunite with no less than Quentin, as we/she realized that what she desperately needed was to say a proper good-bye to her not-quite-Dad, the one who inspired her to become a hero.

Arrow‘s final season has also explored other characters in engaging ways, from Oliver laboring to make sure that his sacrifice, of family, is worth it, to Diggle facing stark realities about his sons’ disparate futures. But seeing a Laurel that we once barely knew experience new layers of growth, and applauding her every step of the way — and seeing Cassidy Rodgers dive into and make the very most of this arc, as a performer — has been one of the Arrowverse’s great pleasures this fall.

Edited December 1, 2019 by apinknightmare

[lemotomato]

She's the exact same as she was in season 7. I'd argue that's when she "grew" the most, such as it was, not this season. The only difference is that other characters are falling all over themselves telling her how great she is. 

Matt is the reason why Arrow always uses "tell, not show" when it comes to LL storyline. He's been an obvious LL fan since the beginning (remember when 717 was first announced as a BoP-esque episode and he immediately assumed BS would lead it? And how he "broke" the news that KC would be a "regular over 4 shows" in season 5?) so all that he needed was the show to verbally call her a hero, and that's good enough for him.

Edited December 2, 2019 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

Well, the show’s attempt to make fans forget/hope fans would forget E2-Laurel’s actions in 6A clearly worked on him, considering he went from her working for Chade to Diaz and ignored her killing people even Cayden James said she didn’t need to. 

Also, her killing Dinah’s boyfriend is more than “friction.” (Though I, too, wish that civil war never happened.)

It’s crazy to think they could write in a line or two here acknowledging her past evil deeds (maybe don’t have her insult Oliver to his daughter? Or snark about haircuts to Lyla? Or have Anatoly apologize to William for something to remind us that Laurel hasn’t/won’t?) and still keep her on this whole “she’s totally a hero, listen to everyone tell her she is!” track. And articles like this wouldn't have to be changed that much or really at all, except for a line or two and wouldn’t also have to ignore glaring issues. 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Well, the show’s attempt to make fans forget/hope fans would forget E2-Laurel’s actions in 6A clearly worked on him,

To be fair, anything would work on him - he loves Katie and Laurel.

[Featherhat]

It's probably the most relevant any Laurel has been in a long time with E2 but I wouldn't call her Arrow's secret weapon, whether or not you want to take the "OMG! HERO!" stuff at face value or not. The biggest secret weapon is merging the current and future storyline wholesale, in a move that surprised even the people who thought Mia might get transported to the past pre Crisis. Even with Reset there's been much less BS than there might have been if it was just Oliver, Diggle and her plus Returning Guest Star of the week, which it looked like at one point. Not *that* much with Oliver either. She's much more relevant than Dinah and Rene though, who almost needn't have bothered. 

And whilst it works better on an antagonistic character than "good doer" E1 Katie still doesn't play layers when it comes to any Laurel and always choses the smuggest and snottiest reading of any line in her take on the character. Her best season was definitely S7, especially in her storyline with Felicity and the warming of the two characters. It felt believable that Felicity would grow to support her becoming a hero and Sara pointing out "Boo hoo redemption isn't easy and you don't get thrown a ticker tape parade for being good for two minutes." Sigh.  

[tv echo]

Take this article with a grain of salt - but still not a list that you want to be on...

20 TV Stars You Thought Were Sweethearts…But Are Actually Jerks
by Diana Morais – on Dec 01, 2019 
https://www.thetalko.com/tv-stars-you-thought-were-sweetheartsbut-are-actually-jerks/ 

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16 
Katie Cassidy
...
Part of the Arrow cast, Katie Cassidy has been a big part of the show since day one, but she is not the sweetheart you may think she is. Apparently, going on a shopping spree is more important to her than being with the fans and signing autographs. Attending conventions with the cast to answer questions about the show and meet fans is an essential part of her job, but she decided to hit the shops instead of attending Comic-Con.
*  *  *
2
Manu Bennett
...
Manu Bennett played the role of a good guy with an evil alter but it seems as though his real life personality is turned more towards the evil side. While staying in San Antonio for a fan's convention, he was arrested for erratic and drunken behavior at an after-party that got too out of hand.

20 Katherine Heigl
19 Ryan Seacrest
18 K.J. Apa
17 Jared Padalecki
16 Katie Cassidy
15 William Shatner
14 Charlie Sheen
13 Calista Flockhart
12 Alec Baldwin
11 Penn Badgley
10 Taylor Momsen
9  Tyra Banks
8  Julie Chen
7  Terence Howard
6  Josh Brolin
5  Bradley Cooper
4  Robert Knepper
3  Isaiah Washington
2  Manu Bennett
1  Teri Hatcher

Edited December 2, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From Arrow to 'Crisis': Inside the evolution of the Arrowverse and its crossovers
By Chancellor Agard  December 02, 2019
https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/02/arrowverse-crisis-on-infinite-earths-crossovers-history/ 

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A version of this story appears in Entertainment Weekly’s Ultimate Guide to the Arrowverse. Pick up your copy on newsstands today, or buy it online!

There was never supposed to be an Arrowverse. Seriously, it wasn’t planned.

“A lot of people like to think we did,” says Arrowverse architect Greg Berlanti. “Each step was a surprise.”

When Arrow, the shared universe’s namesake that stars Stephen Amell as the Green Arrow, premiered on The CW in 2012, the producers were repeatedly asked if they would introduce other heroes with superpowers. “The answers to all those questions were, ‘No, no, and no,’” says Arrow co-developer and consulting producer Marc Guggenheim. “None of those interviews have aged particularly well.”
*  *  *
Having Supergirl on The CW also led to what Guggenheim calls the “gold standard” of their annual crossovers: 2017’s “Crisis on Earth-X,” which spanned all four shows and included two weddings, Nazi doppelgängers, and more than 15 superheroes. “That was one of the craziest things I’ve ever done,” says Benoist of appearing in a scene with every Arrowverse hero. “That particular moment is one that is going to stick with me forever, because I think we all felt it.”

Edited December 3, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

First Person Loses: The Arrowverse’s Love Interest Problem
By Bec Heim  Dec 2nd, 2019, 
https://www.themarysue.com/arrowverse-first-love-interest-problem/ 

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In the first season of The CW’s Arrowverse series, the love interests and the romances surrounding them tend to be the weakest link.

Probably the hardest character to write is one intended to be the love interest. You need to make sure that this character has a) chemistry with your protagonist, b) a personality that shows why your protagonist is in love with them, and c) a believable love story to unfold within the world you’ve created. On top of all of that, the love interest should be their own character with their own desires and dreams, outside of the protagonist.
*  *  *
For the most part, beginning with Arrow’s first season, the love interest plot just doesn’t click. It’s honestly a little bit baffling that no one can figure out how to make the problem work. Originally, Oliver’s (Stephen Amell) love interest is supposed to be Laurel Lance (Katie Cassidy-Rodgers). There are the hallmarks for that sort of romance: Oliver going to Laurel for help both in and out of his superhero guise, the love triangle with Tommy Merlyn (Colin Donnell), their romantic past, and how other characters seem to nudge them together.

Early on, however, a spanner is thrown into the plan in the form of one Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards). Fans went nuts for her. Rickards and Amell’s chemistry was off the charts. It outclassed what was being pushed with Laurel and Oliver. The writers of Arrow, rather smartly, took a step back and looked at things. The romance between Oliver and Felicity became what fans clung onto about Arrow the most. They wanted to see these two end up together, even though Felicity didn’t even exist in comics. Before Arrow, Oliver always ended up with Black Canary.

That’s the thing with television: It’s always great to have an overarching plan as to where your series will go, but you need to make sure that there’s some flexibility in it, as well. Luckily, the Arrow writers were able to course correct, change the love interest, and recover Laurel. She was able to become her own character outside of Oliver as both her Earth-1 and Earth-2 selves.

Much like a real relationship, there is time in television for a romance to unfold in a natural and organic way. While characters on a page may be able to have romantic tension, it doesn’t mean it will necessarily translate into when you put actors in the mix. Actors will vibe with each other in different ways. Sometimes, the romance will truly unfold when both parties on firmly on the same page.
*  *  *
... Soulmates exist in the Arrowverse, but they need to build the groundwork of their relationship, just as we do in real life.

Edited December 3, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow: Aspiring to be John Diggle
By Carl WaldronTuesday, December 3rd, 2019
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/12/03/arrow-aspiring-to-be-john-diggle 

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Over the course of Arrow's eight seasons, John Diggle has risen from babysitter bodyguard to the butt-kicking super soldier known as Spartan. Brought to life each week by David Ramsey in an intense, evolving performance, Diggle is the stoic moral compass of Team Arrow, Oliver Queen's trusted brother-in-arms, and a positive superhero role model. Throughout Arrow's tenure on TV, we have watched Ramsey's character struggle and overcome many a villain or family obstacle. Each problem has tempered John Diggle's resolve to be a stalwart team member, badass soldier and most importantly, dedicated husband and father.
*  *  *
The aspect I find most compelling about the character of John Diggle is his immense dedication to his family. Everything he does is in service of his loved ones, be that his biological family or his makeshift superhero one. He's proven this time and again.
*  *  *
His vigilante lineage is strong as well, raising boys who would later oppose one another—his adopted son Connor, who takes up the Green Arrow mantle in a possible future, and John Jr., leader of the Deathstroke Gang. No matter what the future ultimately holds, it’s clear that John’s legacy as a hero won’t die with him.
*  *  *
For superhero stories to resonate, they must have characters you can identify with. Diggle is one of those characters. On his hero's journey, he becomes a dad, which scares him, but he ultimately finds comfort and joy in it. He strives to balance his chaotic career of superhero antics with a healthy family and home life. A basic human psychological need is the pursuit of security in one's work and familial relationships.
*  *  *
I find comfort, joy and resolve in watching John Diggle's character on TV. The story of John Diggle is an inspiration and an excellent representation of a black superhero and family man. Sure, he dons a helmet, grabs a sidearm and fights crime. But more importantly, he protects and provides for his family. He is a devoted friend and ally, and always tries to do the morally right thing. Those are traits we should all aspire to have.

After all, not all superheroes have powers.

Edited December 3, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

8 hours ago, tv echo said:

First Person Loses: The Arrowverse’s Love Interest Problem

Thank you. I agree with many of her general points but personally I think she's being overly generous about of a lot of the arcs and the details. Just to keep this Arrow based, the writers seriously struggled with LL in S2-4 as well as S1 and whilst there's more for BS this season and last a lot of it still feels half hearted like James Olsen's arcs and it's clear KC is still extremely keen to tie the character to Oliver where possible (8x02) because for better or worse that's how Arrow is viewed. 

I am of the opinion that even if EBR hadn't been cast as Felicity they would have found an alternative love interest.

[Primal Slayer]

I thought they'd talk about the shows love interests problems as a whole....never giving Laurel another real love interest after S1 was a huge mistake on their part.

[Chaser]

I still can’t believe no one was like maybe we shouldn’t have our hero take his LI’s sister on a sex cruise where she dies in the pilot episode. That might not be the best foundation.

The chemistry problems are separate but that plot point never should have made it out of the development.

RE: Laurel getting a new love interest. This should have happened but I’m not sure I’m surprised it didn’t. I can see KC arguing against it. Maybe in the spinoff. 

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, Chaser said:

RE: Laurel getting a new love interest. This should have happened but I’m not sure I’m surprised it didn’t. I can see KC arguing against it.

She's still pushing the idea of L/O even now.

So yeah,. Back when Oliver and Felicity weren't actually together yet, I can totally see her pushing to keep LL unattached to keep being an option for Oliver.

Edited December 4, 2019 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

Yep.

I think KC figures as long as she’s on the show, Oliver and Laurel are a possibility. Bless her heart.

[apinknightmare]

Am I getting this confused with something else, or...didn't MG post something on Twitter or Tumblr about how Katie had pitched to him that either Oliver is still the love of Laurel's life and/or she's also the love of Oliver's life and MG was basically like...I don't agree? 

I recall thinking that's why we got that godawful scene on her deathbed where she mentioned Oliver being the love of her life. I mean, it could be MG's fault, but I feel like TPTB might've given in to her head canon? Or am I making that up?

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Am I getting this confused with something else, or...didn't MG post something on Twitter or Tumblr about how Katie had pitched to him that either Oliver is still the love of Laurel's life and/or she's also the love of Oliver's life and MG was basically like...I don't agree? 

I recall thinking that's why we got that godawful scene on her deathbed where she mentioned Oliver being the love of her life. I mean, it could be MG's fault, but I feel like TPTB might've given in to her head canon? Or am I making that up?

I think you’re right. And wasn’t that non-deathbed confession pretty close to what KC had been saying for a while prior to it? (As in going back before it would’ve been written into the script/filmed.) 

[lemotomato]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Am I getting this confused with something else, or...didn't MG post something on Twitter or Tumblr about how Katie had pitched to him that either Oliver is still the love of Laurel's life and/or she's also the love of Oliver's life and MG was basically like...I don't agree? 

I recall thinking that's why we got that godawful scene on her deathbed where she mentioned Oliver being the love of her life. I mean, it could be MG's fault, but I feel like TPTB might've given in to her head canon? Or am I making that up?

It was KC who told MG that, I think. It matches with what she said in this interview in Feruary 2016 with IGN: 
https://www.ign.com/articles/2016/02/02/arrow-katie-cassidy-and-emily-bett-rickards-on-how-felicity-has-inspired-laurel

Quote

Cassidy: Yeah, absolutely. Also, thinking about it, I felt I was happy -- and the way I look at their relationship -- I'm happy for Oliver, and I'm happy for Felicity. I see Felicity as this genuinely beautiful person and good person. Obviously, I still think Oliver is the love of Laurel's life, but that doesn't mean you end up with the love of your life. So I feel like she's come to peace with that.

Edited December 4, 2019 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

Yeah, KC said it at a Con after Laurel’s death. 

[Featherhat]

Yeah it seems that the whole death bed confession and subsequent flashbacks were a goodbye sop to KC as a consolation for getting killed off.

I do find it a bit sad that everytime she has a scene with over she's there pushing them. None of them have even been in the slightest bit romantic for years. And her current character barely tolerates Oliver and vis versa. Mind you it gets her a lot of likes from her section of the fandom so I can't really blame her. I expect her to start pushing Mia and Laurel as pseudo mother/daughter #lauriverbaby etc in the spin off. Should be interesting with Kat's #Olicitybaby.

She might get a love interest there but I can also see her pushing for her to stay single.

[tv echo]

Arrow’s not over yet, but says its goodbyes in “Purgatory”
Allison Shoemaker   December 4, 2019
https://tv.avclub.com/arrow-s-not-over-yet-but-says-its-goodbyes-in-purgato-1840191357 

Quote

Bamford, who it seems will leave Arrow with 18 episodes under his belt—by far the most of any of the show’s directors—makes a meal out of an episode that is, essentially, just a stopping point on the way to Crisis. They need the weapon, and it has to be built on Lian Yu because of ghost-creating power spikes? Sure. But that’s not the point. The big point is that everyone gets a chance to arrive at the place Oliver arrived in “Reset.” Maybe note acceptance, precisely, but something similar. Something like letting go and enjoying what you have, while you have it. Something like this.

[tv echo: there's a video clip here of that 6x11 scene where Felicity gives that amazing speech to William while they watch Oliver fighting in the field via the monitor]

I’ve thought about this scene, one of Arrow’s very best, a lot this season, and it looms particularly large this episode. That’s not just because William (Ben Lewis, who remains a highlight of this season) brings it up when he’s talking to his sister, who never had reason to hear such a speech. “Purgatory” concerns itself with nearly all its characters confronting some internal conflict—guilt, fear, self-recrimination, long-simmering resentment, helplessness, grief, broken trust, the list goes on. It’s not universal—Dinah, Laurel, and William take a bit of a backseat—but the rest are pretty busy. Diggle, Mia, and Oliver are in for a particular workout, though two of the episode’s finest moments belong to Lyla (Audrey Marie Anderson) and Roy (Colton Haynes) respectively. More on them in a moment.

There are a number of top-tier scenes in this sucker, though the back-to-back double-whammy of Diggle and Oliver and Oliver and Mia takes the cake. The Mia scene, Katherine McNamara’s finest on the show to date, is the big moment to which the episode builds, and it delivers. For my money, however, the winner in a pack of winners is that Digg/Oliver scene, a deceptively simple little showcase for David Ramsey, Stephen Amell, and a relationship that the show’s writers have spent years building. Diggle comes to terms with a possibility he refused to acknowledge in the season premiere, to the team’s detriment: that Oliver really will have to take on part of this on alone. Oliver gets to show his gratitude for years of friendship and that moment of understanding. And most importantly, both realize that just because Oliver may go where Diggle can’t follow, they will neither of them be alone, because brotherhood isn’t about going down fighting together. It’s just about being brothers. Even when they’re alone, they’re alone, together. (Like the trees they stand beneath in that scene, pictured above.)
*  *  *
- TAMVP: You know what? Katherine McNamara killed it this week. The Mia/Ollie scenes were great, the Mia/William scene was great. But this was truly a team effort. She gets a special mention but it’s a team-wide TAMVP.

Edited December 4, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Purgatory (Season 8 Episode [7])
December 4, 2019 Brianna Martinez
https://telltaletv.com/2019/12/arrow-review-purgatory-season-8-episode-6/ 

Quote

I love that William continues to impart what he’s learned from the painful lessons he’s had over the years with Mia to make her understand. The pair have come a very long way from when they first realized they were related in 2040 on Arrow Season 7 Episode 13, “Star City Slayer.”
*  *  *
The Lian Yu returns, from Billy Wintergreen and Fyers to Yao Fei, work for the fun bit of nostalgia and serve as solid throwbacks. But where other characters having come back in the final season leave each hour with some emotional resonance, many of these appearances fall flat.
*  *  *
It’s one moment with Yao Fei while trapped in a pair of nets that leaves an emotional impact on his return.
*  *  *
- There’s something about Oliver not taking the Hozen from William that gave me pause. It may be my brain firing on all speculative cylinders based on one small moment, but it feels like there’s meaning behind it.

Edited December 4, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ 8×07 Review: “Purgatory”
BY: RAQUEL  ON: DECEMBER 4, 2019 
https://fangirlish.com/2019/12/04/purgatory-arrow-review/ 

Quote

We’re here again! This week Arrow delights us with “Purgatory,” the best episode of the show. It is a complete hour, full of emotional conflicts, goodbyes, tributes to Oliver’s entire journey and tears because yes, they have managed to move us and reach our hearts. Such episodes are the ones that remind us why we have accompanied Oliver on his journey over so many years.
*  *  *
Superb Stephen and Kat’s acting in this scene. Applause for both. We feel that pain, that knife twisting our hearts and even our souls, a reflection of what the characters are feeling … just as we feel that fury, that anger that everything has to end like this. Bravo!
*  *  *
William knows Mia and is aware that right now she is feeling the same as he felt when she discovered that Felicity was still Overwatch, a mixture of anger and protective instinct (instinct inherited from her father). She may be angry, she may want to strangle him … but she wants to protect him even from himself. She wants to help him and wants him to know that she is there and that nothing will happen to him. Here the papers are reversed, it is her father who should protect her (and he does) but Mia doesn’t care. The only important thing is not to abandon her father. She just can’t do it. She loves him too much.

And she doesn’t understand how William can be so impassive above all, given the fact that their father is alone and that he will die soon. But William is not calm, of course he is worried, of course it hurts, but Felicity taught him (in one of the best scenes of the show) what his father was able to do, the risk he ran but also the skills that he has. That life full of dangers is what his father chose and must trust him to always return home safely, he cannot do anything but trust.
*  *  *
That said, I have not come to fully understand not only how the island is once again a reality, but the appearance of Yao Fei and Fyers when they are supposed to be dead. I don’t like walking dead in the show … and I have not finished understanding such a convoluted explanation of their appearance but, for this time, I forgive the producers for the marvel of the episode they have given us.

Edited December 4, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

UPDATE: KM appeared on the Dec. 8, 2019 Crisis Aftermath I post-show. So apparently The CWTVPR photo gallery made a mistake in their captions.

On Dec. 10, 2019, KM will be a guest on the second show of Kevin Smith's two Crisis Aftermath post-show specials (the first show airs on Dec. 8)...
https://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/photos?page=3

Quote

CRISIS AFTERMATH II
PART TWO OF A TWO-PART SPECIAL -- In celebration of the massive new DC crossover event Crisis on Infinite Earths, The CW is proud to announce Crisis Aftermath hosted by superfan, and frequent series director, Kevin Smith. We'll go behind the scenes to explore every angle of this year's explosive crossover, hear from the shows' stars and the creative minds behind The CW's biggest event yet, plus special guests, sneak peeks and surprises. Original airdate 12/10/2019.
*  *  *
Specials -- "CRISIS AFTERMATH II" -- Image Number: CRISIS_5001b.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Host Kevin Smith, Katherine McNamara, Host Dani Fernandez, and Executive Producer Marc Guggenheim -- Photo: Chris Frawley/The CW -- © 2019 The CW Network, LLC. All rights reserved.

Edited December 9, 2019 by tv echo
UPDATED DEC. 9, 2019

[tv echo]

Watchover with Jen and Calli
Watchover Ep 58 - 8x07 Discussion
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/watchover-with-jen-and-calli/e/65794257?autoplay=true

Quote

Another emotional week on #Arrow as Oliver helps his friends and family come to terms with his impending death and we get all up in our feels about the whole thing. Again. This will probably be the norm from here. Crisis, here we come!

[tv echo]

REVIEW: ‘Arrow,’ Season 8, Episode 7 – “Purgatory”
12/05/2019 - by Charlie Ashby -
https://butwhythopodcast.com/2019/12/05/review-arrow-season-8-episode-7-purgatory/ 

Quote

It is later revealed that not only have Oliver’s enemies returned to the Island but so have his allies in the form of his original mentor Yao Fei (Byron Mann). Yao Fei is such an important character in the Arrowverse mythos, having taught Oliver archery in the first place and putting him on the path to becoming the hero we all know and love. More importantly, his presence in this episode continues to show that there are no cut-offs when it comes to learning something new, as Yao teaches Oliver that his death in Crisis does not mean his legacy will not live on in Mia and William, his allies and all those he has touched in the past eleven years.

Purgatory has a deeply melancholic feeling attached to it in the sense that this is quite possibly a finale in its own way. We see Oliver say goodbye to friends, have another incredible heart-to-heart with his son William and finally lay to rest some of his long-term doubts. Returning to Lian Yu for one final time before Crisis was such a clever idea that allows the show to bookmark its beginning and end. From here on out, nothing will quite be the same again.
*  *  *
Much like the finale for Season 7 earlier this year, ‘Purgatory’ has the overwhelming sense of finality to it. While this is not the final time we’ll see some of these characters, nor Oliver, there are conversations that are extremely well written and acted as though they intend to be their last. In particular, Stephen Amell acting with Ben Lewis’ William is once again a fantastic highlight of the season – both being able to have the chance to show their love towards each other. We also get to see that with Mia too, who finally understands the weight that Oliver goes through in a deeply emotional ending which should make any long-time viewer of the show tear up.
*  *  *
Overall, “Purgatory” is a fantastic episode of Arrow which rounds off Oliver’s journey by returning where it started, on Lian Yu, before diving headfirst into the impending Crisis.

Edited December 6, 2019 by tv echo

[Trisha]

[tv echo]

Among other things, Jen and Calli talked about how the official CW Arrow twitter account is ignoring TV Guide's tweet about Arrow's win for Best TV Fandom of 2019 (maybe because TV Guide used an Olicity gif?); they also recalled how the CW Arrow twitter account never retweeted the news of EBR's return - warning: also some mention of the COIE tie-in comic...

Watchover with Jen and Calli
Watchover Ep 59 - All We Do Is Win
December 7, 2019
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/watchover-with-jen-and-calli/e/65857313 

Edited December 8, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's video of The Rich Eisen Show's interview with SA and RA...

Robbie & Stephen Amell Talk "Code 8," Throwing Footballs & More with Rich Eisen | Full Interview
The Rich Eisen Show  Dec. 6, 2019

Or you can listen to audio only here:
http://www.richeisenshow.com/listen-live/

Edited December 8, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's a (partial) recap of what KM said when she was a guest on last night's Crisis Aftermath II post-show (with host Kevin Smith). Also, although it's not mentioned in this article, when Smith asked KM about playing Oliver's daughter, KM made a point of mentioning that Mia was also the daughter of the "iconic character" Felicity Smoak...

Katherine McNamara unpacks 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' first hour's 'historic moment'
By Chancellor Agard December 08, 2019 
https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/08/crisis-on-infinite-earths-katherine-mcnamara-oliver-death-green-arrow/ 

Quote

... Before wading into battle, though, Oliver gifted Mia her very own Green Arrow super-suit.

Katherine McNamara opened up about how much this exchange meant to be both Mia and her personally when she dropped by EW’s after-show Crisis Aftermath, which was hosted by Kevin Smith and aired on the CW following Supergirl.

“That was one of my favorite moments to shoot definitely just because Stephen and I have spent most of the season together and getting to watch him work and being a part of this story and this being my first crossover,” said McNamara. “That was such a big moment for both characters and I think we both felt that.”

Shortly after this, though, Oliver is mortally injured battling the shadow army, and the Monitor returns him to the Team Arrow bunker, where he dies surrounded by Mia, the Flash (Grant Gustin), Sara (Caity Lotz), and the other heroes. McNamara felt a very weird mix of emotions when they shot that scene.

“That was a historic moment in many ways for me personally. It was my first day on set with everyone in the suits. It was my first day wearing my suit on set, so I was so excited,” she said. “Then I get to set and I realize, ‘Oh I have to cry over my dying father. Let me reframe my entire headspace.'” She continued, “It was so wonderful, and Stephen killed it. Everybody really came together because Stephen, in a sense, was the beginning of this entire universe.”

With Oliver’s death, the Green Arrow mantle is now firmly in Mia’s hands. But, as Smith wonders, does Mia actually want this responsibility?

“That’s been the toughest kind of struggle for Mia throughout her entire process of being involved in this,” said McNamara,

Spoiler

who will be the new Green Arrow if The CW orders the in-development spin-off Green Arrow and the Canaries, which will have a backdoor pilot in Arrow‘s final season.

“She was raised in a world in which vigilantes were villainized and she’s come full circle with that having met her father and kind of gotten a look into the difficult choices he’s had to make. Now, she’s been through and worked through all of these issues and has a wonderful relationship with her father. She doesn’t want the responsibility because she doesn’t want to lose him. She knows she can take it on. She knows she’s ready for it. But she’s finally filled the one missing piece of her life and doesn’t want to lose that. That’s kind of the tragedy. Yes, there always needs to be one Green Arrow, but there’s only one Green Arrow. So she knows that’s coming to an end and it’s difficult.”

Edited December 10, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

ITA...

You can also read Laura Hurley's CinemaBlend article on her thoughts about what happened to Oliver in last night's crossover episode here (warning: spoilers).

Edited December 9, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Ditto to what EW's Sara Netzley tweeted about how Oliver asked Mia twice to tell Felicity how much he loves her...

Edited December 9, 2019 by tv echo

[Trisha]

This is especially funny because Pagey is always wrong. I seriously don't know how that guy still has so many subscribers:

[lemotomato]

I can't imagine being proud of being called stupid in public, no matter how much I liked that celebrity. Dude, SA is laughing at you, not with you.

[tv echo]

Video of entire Crisis Aftermath I post-show, hosted by Kevin Smith, on Dec. 8th, with guests MG, KM and LMG - I only transcribed a few comments...

(Christian90z Bunke)

Kevin Smith: "Do you watch him [Stephen Amell]? How does one play the daughter of somebody who's been playing a guy for, like, many seasons? Do you actually go back, watch episodes, and be like, I could steal that, I could steal that?"
KM: "That's exactly what I did. When I first auditioned, I didn't know I was auditioning for his daughter. Um, and once I found that out, I went back and watched the entire series. Because, not only is he such an iconic character, but Felicity Smoak is another iconic character."
Kevin Smith: "Totally."
KM: "And Mia is sort of the perfect amalgamation of them both. And I tried to steal as many nuances and character quirks as I could, to really make her her own person."
Kevin Smith: "You nailed it."

MG: "The reason these shows are so fan service-oriented is, we're fans, we approach it as fans."

Edited December 10, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I'm focusing solely on the Oliver comments in this review...

‘Crisis on Infinite Earths’ Part 1 Review: What The Hell Just Happened?
BY: ALYSSA BARBIERI  ON: DECEMBER 9, 2019
https://fangirlish.com/2019/12/09/crisis-on-infinite-earths-part-1-review-what-the-hell-just-happened/ 

Quote

Let’s get one thing clear: I was never going to be prepared to watch Oliver Queen die. Not again. Not like in the season 3 midseason finale. Not in a definitive sense, which this feels like is as close as it’s going to ever get considering we’re nearing the end of the series. (Because I refuse to believe Oliver is going to stay dead.) But watching Oliver die was a gut-wrenching feeling that shattered my heart.

But even before that — what led to his death — was just as heartbreaking. When the Monitor pulled everyone to Earth-1, Oliver stayed back on Earth-38 and continued to fight. He continued to fight to give those civilians time to escape to safety on the ship. He fought until the arrows ran out in his quiver. He continued to fight even without his bow. And he bought time for those to escape. He saved one billion lives while sacrificing his own. While other heroes might possess superpowers, Oliver has proven that the greatest superpower is heart. And there’s no hero with a bigger heart than Oliver Queen.

While Oliver Queen has taken a brunt of hate and criticism over the years, he’s easily my favorite of our central heroes. He’s underrated, under-appreciated and far better than many will give him credit for. He’s the best hero this universe has produced. He’s undergone the best journey of any hero in this universe.
*  *  *
We’ll keep Oliver in our hearts — until this show gives him back to us.

Edited December 10, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

2019 in Review: Biggest Plot Twists!
By Team TVLine / December 9 2019
https://tvline.com/feature/plot-twists-2019-tv-shocking-moments-jon-snow-daenerys-1133130/ 

Quote

Presented alphabetically, our list of the year’s biggest shockers includes jaw-dropping returns on How to Get Away With Murder and NCIS, time-bending twists on Arrow and Russian Doll, and long-awaited discoveries on The Big Bang Theory and Younger. Other shows featured in our gallery include Euphoria, Legacies, The Mandalorian and Game of Thrones.
*  *  *
 
ARROW
Mia, William and Connor are transported to 2019!

[Trisha]

I still don't understand Quibi but good for them:

[tv echo]

33 TV Details From 2019 That'll Make You Say, "How Did I Not Notice That?!"
Nora Dominick   Dec. 10, 2019
https://www.buzzfeed.com/noradominick/tv-details-easter-eggs-2019 

Quote

26. In Arrow, when Oliver visits Laurel on Earth-2, you can see that Vixen, Ragman, and Steel are on Team Black Canary alongside Laurel and Adrian Chase as Green Arrow.
 *  *  *
27. Also in Arrow, when Quentin uncovers a list of potential hits, the names include some of the characters from Stranger Things.

Edited December 11, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]