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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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AnyoneButYou

AnyoneButYou

This is from Green Arrow TV's review of "Sara". http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-3-2-sara-recap-review/19345#comments

 

 

What are they talking about? What tear-downs of Oliver?

I think they're talking about when Felicity got mad at Oliver for making her his EA and then yelling at Oliver in the Foundry for being oblivious that Diggle and Carly broke up. For whatever reason, they really hated Felicity yelling at Oliver at the beginning of last season.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I think they're talking about when Felicity got mad at Oliver for making her his EA and then yelling at Oliver in the Foundry for being oblivious that Diggle and Carly broke up. For whatever reason, they really hated Felicity yelling at Oliver at the beginning of last season.

You've got to be kidding me. In one instance he forced her into a job she didn't want because it was convenient for him and in another she was protecting her friend.
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AnyoneButYou

AnyoneButYou

(edited)

You've got to be kidding me. In one instance he forced her into a job she didn't want because it was convenient for him and in another she was protecting her friend.

Nope. They were pretty annoyed with Felicity in those instances. They said she was too snarky bordering on annoying from what I remember.

 

ETA: Here's the review from Identity

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-advance-review-of-tonights-episode-identity/15424

 

 

I also felt Felicity was a bit too snarky at points of this episode to the point of becoming annoying. I’m a huge fan of Felicity Smoak, but after several years of Smallville I’m so weary of when the plucky sidekick starts constantly sassing the boss. Hopefully that will tone down sooner rather than later. Weirdly, I’m okay with it when it comes from Diggle, mostly because this is a guy with military experience to back that up.

Edited by AnyoneButYou
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Oh wow, a woman can't be "too snarky", but it's all right if a dude does it. I feel so validated in refusing to give clicks to that site by NEVER EVER GOING THERE, it's not even funny.

Edited by dancingnancy
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AnyoneButYou

AnyoneButYou

Oh wow, a woman can't be sassy, but it's all right if a dude does it. I feel so validated in refusing to give clicks to that site by NEVER EVER GOING THERE, it's not even funny.

Yeah, I stopped visiting that site after that review. God forbid, a woman be upset that she basically got demoted to a secretary.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Well they both love Laurel in Sara.

 

Weirdly, I’m okay with it when it comes from Diggle, mostly because this is a guy with military experience to back that up.

Interesting .... militiary experience helps when you're telling someone he's self-centered for not noticing his friend was hurting from a break-up?  Who knew?  (This is giving me feels of gamer gate.)  It's a different reviewer than the two for Sara. Maybe all the guys ther feel the same way?

 

Women should be seen and not heard unless they're the Black Canary.

Edited by statsgirl
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AnalyzeAndCritique

AnalyzeAndCritique

Could just be me, but I don't think bland can really be attributed to either Fitz or Laurel. They're both pretty divisive characters that seem to generate plenty of discussion.

I can't speak for Fitz, but the character of Laurel on Arrow is bland. In the fandom she is a polarizing and divisive character. Most of the interest though comes from the WTFery of the shit TIIC peddle and what we see on screen. If it weren't for promotion, I think Laurel would be overlooked and easily forgotten.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I'll say it before and I'll say it again. I firmly believe that the reason why a lot of people like Laurel isn't because of the character (which is ridiculously bland/ uninteresting), but the character's journey. They love Black Canary, not Laurel. If Laurel didn't have this comic destiny, she would've been tossed out like day old bread and no one would think twice about it. 

 

A lot of positive reactions about Laurel in the last episode was because she became more bad ass and more relevant to the plot, the positive reactions weren't because Laurel had finally turned around as a character. This (imo) is a superficial love.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think some of it is because of KC's performance, but that's also because Vengeful Laurel is something KC plays better the Good-doer Laurel.

 

I've now read three reviews at three different sites by male reviewers who think that it's ridiculous that Felicity was so upset that Sara died because she was jealous of Sara's relationship with Oliver.  Considering one of the few things ToD did right was to clearly say that Felicity wasn't jealous of that (it was Sara's combined skills but her own feeling of failure), I find that interesting.  Is this a common male feeling, that if two women are friends with a man, one must be jealous of the other?

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

That's also simplifying Felicity's feelings towards Sara to a kindergarten degree. Even if ToD hadn't established that her jealousy was about fitting in with the team -- even if she were jealous of Sara because of Sara's relationship with Oliver, it is actually possible to like/love someone and consider them a friend and grieve them when they die WHILE also feeling jealous of them. One thing does not exclude the other. People are jealous of their friends all the time while still being their friends.

But then, this mindset that Oliver's dick makes all women close to him instant adversaries is both the typical dudebro approach to female characters, and something the show itself caters to more often than not. Ugh.

Edited by dancingnancy
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doesntworkonwood

doesntworkonwood

(edited)

It's not like Sara attempted to teach Felicity to fight, in that very same episode. It's not like Felicity jumped in front of a bullet for Sara. It's not like Sara called her cute, or like they spent months together. 

 

As soon as a women seems jealous, all other actions are totally invalid. 

 

Edited: Accurate gifset here

Edited by doesntworkonwood
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Pyramid

Pyramid

I think some of it is because of KC's performance, but that's also because Vengeful Laurel is something KC plays better the Good-doer Laurel.

 

I've now read three reviews at three different sites by male reviewers who think that it's ridiculous that Felicity was so upset that Sara died because she was jealous of Sara's relationship with Oliver.  Considering one of the few things ToD did right was to clearly say that Felicity wasn't jealous of that (it was Sara's combined skills but her own feeling of failure), I find that interesting.  Is this a common male feeling, that if two women are friends with a man, one must be jealous of the other?

Only if the man is a complete fuckwit.

Seriously though,surely nobody thinks that? And especially between Sara and Felicity. They were friends!

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Betweenthisandthat

Betweenthisandthat

(edited)
An article about Thea/Malcolm. http://tvline.com/20...a-oliver-truth/

 

If there's a few things I'm still tuning it for, it's this storyline.  While I've grown lukewarm to most of Oliver's relationships, his one with Thea is something I'm still invested in.  I also love Barrowman and am looking to see what kind of relationship Thea/Malcolm have.  I'd love to see Thea and Oliver work their way back to each other, for Oliver to one day be honest about everything, and for him to let Thea protect herself rather than lying to protect her. 

 

When it comes to media and fandom, whether you like or loathe Laurel, the thing that disgusts me is that supporting Felicity somehow entails trashing Laurel and vice versa.  Not once have these two characters had a fued to create so much division.  Not once have we heard these two women will be at each other's throats this season because of Oliver or anyone else.  Yet these two women are forever pitted against each other for no other reason then because it's something some fans do.  I personally like Laurel because of Laurel, who she is and her journey.  I like Felicity for who she is and hope to enjoy her journey to become whatever she becomes. I assume people who like Felicity like her because of the character as well not because of who she will become or be with. I'd love both Laurel and Felicity to be friendly with each other and Thea as well.  I'd love to see more female-centric friendships, assuming they don't kill off more women.

Edited by Betweenthisandthat
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FurryFury

FurryFury

Is this a common male feeling, that if two women are friends with a man, one must be jealous of the other?

 

I don't watch Arrow anymore (I still read these boards because it's nice so many people agree that killing Sara to shill Laurel was an awful, unforgivable decision), but yeah, it's a common sentiment for many, many male writers, unfortunately. Probably not just writers. Many men, even not particularly misogynistic men, think that most women hate and compete with each other. Hell, my husband thinks that. So I'm not at all surprised that this thought appeared in some reviews.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

Is this a common male feeling, that if two women are friends with a man, one must be jealous of the other?

 

In real life?  It depends on the man.  In the entertainment industry?  Absolutely.  The producing, directing, and writing jobs are dominated by men so it ends up being gender specific.  The Moonlighting Curse BS was created and kept alive by men.  Plenty of women do buy into these things, but they aren't the ones in positions of power most of the time and, by extension, aren't the ones keeping these theories and tropes alive. 

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writersblock51

writersblock51

(edited)

There are only a handful of reviewers whose works I even bother reading anymore because of so many irritating assumptions the others had.    I've seen a few that have disparaged the female friendships on Coulson's team on Agents of SHIELD because, heaven forbid, women can form relationships that are postive, supportive and respectful.

 

The thing is that the media - not just movie & TV show reviewers - often paint female relationships as rife with tension, competition and mean spiritedness.  Meanwhile, ask any woman to list her the most supportive & loving relationships in her life and I'd bet my house that there'd be as many women as men listed or even more females than males. 

 

Which makes you wonder why the negative impression continues... "Arrow" and many reviewers (and fans) can't seem to handle Felicity NOT being jealous of Sara and Oliver's intimate relationship because it doesn't fit their assumption of how women react to each other.  Which comes back to where those assumptions comes from.

 

Which then makes you wonder what the fear is about positive female relationships.  Because I do think there's a fearful element at play here. 

 

it's an effed up way to look at the world - and it doesn't match the reality of most females in the world.

Edited by writersblock51
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fantique

fantique

(edited)

I am so glad you guys feel the same way. Everytime someone talks about Felicity being jealous of Sara with connection to Oliver I feel like shouting "It has NOTHING to do with Oliver". She liked him then but he had pretty much never given her the impression he was interested (IMO) and so it wasn't like "oh this girl is taking the guy I like away from me." I also get annoyed when people assume I don't like Laurel because I like Felicity, if she had never appeared on screen again I would still be very annoyed with KC's concept and interpretation of Laurel as well as the writers' appalling idea of what makes a couple and a leading lady compelling.

Not to go man-hater here but yeah, guys have the ability to make it all about girls being interested in them in any situation, in some ways it is a true gift of delusion. So those guys think of it as if they were Oliver, that's how they would see the situation. I have seen it when all my friends were guys. Then they suddenly realised I was a girl and proceeded to act all weird as if, after years of being friends, all of a sudden the exact same behaviour meant I was into them. Sigh of exasperation... I was pissed! I was like "dude, I mostly forget you have a penis. You barely register as a man to me." Harsh, I know. Did not help the situation but I had to get it out.

Edited by fantique
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Chaser

Chaser

Is Natalie Abrams the one who did that wrote up for TvGuide (I think it was them) about the S2 finale that dismissed any feelings Oliver may for Felicity as palonic? And said that his true love was Laurel or something?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Is Natalie Abrams the one who did that wrote up for TvGuide (I think it was them) about the S2 finale that dismissed any feelings Oliver may for Felicity as palonic? And said that his true love was Laurel or something?

 

Yeah, she wrote that Oliver couldn't love Felicity because he doesn't know anything about her (because we, the audience, don't know much about her), and that he was willing to sacrifice her in order to save his twu wuv and forever soulmate Laurel, lmao.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

 I remember right before S2 began she took one of the promo's and tried to start a shipping war.  She implied that the CW/Arrow were pitting shippers against each other using a promo that had Olicity Tarzan swing and Thea/Roy making out...she tried to pass Thea/Roy off as Lauiver.  

 

To this day I have no idea if she really was too dumb to realize that wasn't Oliver/Laurel or just did it for hits but ever since then i just dismiss her as a total dumbass.  However, who knows maybe she's a die hard Lauiver shipper...

Edited by Morrigan2575
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Is there a Diggle action figure?  They could make the argument that Felicity doesn't get one because she's not out fighting, but Diggle sure is.

 

Does he need to get a cool costume before they'll make him into an action figure?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

She tweeted asking for questions for the group of shows a few days ago.  Between that and the tweets today, there was only one question that mentioned Laurel, and that was asking for Felicity/Laurel friendship.  Most of the questions with all three tweets were about Felicity. Consider me highly amused. 

 

I wonder if she will be a journalist and unbiased/giving readers what they asked for, or if her Laurel love will take precedence.

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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

David is such a smart guy. In his THR interview, when he is asked that if he had to choose between his family and his arrow family, which family would he choose and his response was:

 

David Ramsey can project onto Diggle what I think he'd do but I'm not sure yet what those choices will be. I would hope that Diggle would never have to choose between his family and his surrogate family.

 

Now this is how a responsible, intelligent adult person would respond to a query that he has no idea about. Seriously, David is a real life Yoda and Katie Cassidy should take tutorial from him about talking to journalists.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

Great interview with David Ramsey:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-david-ramsey-season-3-742286

 

His views on Diggle, and Oliver, and Team Arrow are so clear cut and accurate, it warms my heart, really.

Me too. This is why I scratch my head over all the hand-wringing going on regarding potential relationships in other threads. DR has now mentioned Felicity in 3 different interviews and stated that one of Diggle's main purposes on the show is to be an example for Oliver and show him that it is possible to have a normal life like the one he has with Lyla. Putting this on top of what SA, AK, MG and others have all said, I don't think the showrunners can make their intentions any more obvious, despite what KC may be saying in her interviews.

Edited by NumberCruncher
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Guest

Guest

I adore David Ramsey. I watched an interview with him taken at SDCC and he's so eloquent and really has a great grasp on his character - on other characters too. Very insightful. I trust what he has to say over KC any day.

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Guest
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