The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

I'm not sure how I feel about this article...

Why Olicity's wedding is good for Arrow - whether you think Felicity is endgame or not
Jo-Anne Rowney   January 29, 2018
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/olicitys-wedding-good-arrow-whether-11930148

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For Olicity fans, it's all good news, but not everyone was happy about it. I'm here to tell you it's good news - for both groups, honest, promise.
*  *  *
But first, if you're still holding out hope for Oliver and Laurel, that ship has sailed. If you're hoping Black Siren will turn good, well, maybe that'll happen, but Black Siren and Oliver? That's a no go. Put that aside.

Now, if you are one of the people who prefers Arrow sans romance drama and more, well, arrow-y, then your time is here.

That 'will you, won't they?' and uncertainty that both camps have complained about before, that's over. With a ring on both their fingers, there's no question Felicity and Oliver are endgame. No more back and forth, longing looks and veiled comments ("He had you there was no choice to make" etc etc).

Second, Felicity has always been the bright light for Team Arrow until, thanks to Havenrock, that light dimmed.

You just have to watch Olicity's scenes together since reuniting to know that that dimmer switch has been whacked right up. The banter is back and they've reached "maximum domesticity level."
*  *  *
A chirpier Felicity is a welcome change, especially with the looming threat of Cayden James and the division between the teams. Oliver needs all the help he can get. A change of gear leaves us with the nice 'old married couple' moments and full support for Oliver.

Since the marriage, we've actually been low on big Olicity scenes, instead there's been plenty of touchingly heartfelt small moments.
*  *  *
That's not the only pep talk she's given. In 6x11 Felicity delivered one of the most powerful speeches to William as they watched Oliver fight Cayden's men. (Kudos to Emily Bett Rickards for her spot on performance)

As Oliver showed off his best skills, Felicity confessed how she'd loved Oliver for a long time "so worried about him a long time" in one of the best speeches about the power of love and not taking things for granted, which brings us to one of the most important reasons marriage is such a good thing - William.
*  *  *
From Felicity and William bonding over quadratic equations to waiting for Oliver as they gorged ice cream for dinner and played video games, the pair have shown how there's always ways to inject new life into Arrow.

The Queen-Smoak family has some of the most subtle moments, but their whole chemistry underlies what has made the show what it is.

Thea and Oliver's sibling support, Moira sacrificing herself for her children, Felicity and Donna, Felicity and Noah, Oliver and William, even OTA - the list goes on.
*  *  *
The development of Oliver, Felicity and William will take the show forward, the romantic drama is in the past and trust, communication and support - the cornerstones of a healthy relationship - can really come to play...before kids turn up of course.

And, Olicity aside, isn't it time that we got a healthy relationship on our screens? Drama is so overated, and family (in whatever form) is what Arrow of the future is about.

Edited January 29, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I missed this 610 review last week, so I'm posting it now because it's a good one...

‘Arrow’ recap: ‘Divided’ and outnumbered
Thaddeus Jones   Jan. 25, 2018
https://medium.com/@thaddeus.jones90/arrow-610-recap-divided-and-outnumbered-744d6f190f4c

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Rene is enjoying some bonding time with his daughter, who is worried he’s not going to work (Quentin fired him). He assures her “no one will ever take you away from me — ever again.” When Curtis arrives, Rene admits he’s feeling bad about how he betrayed Oliver. Curtis says he had to put his family first. No one mentions that instead of betraying Oliver, Rene could have gone to him or Lance—the two people who’d worked to get Rene his daughter back—for help after the FBI approached him. Anyway, Rene asks Curtis if it’s possible to delete the FBI’s evidence identifying him as Wild Dog, assuming it’s digitized, so he can recant.
*  *  *
Upon hearing they’ve been compromised, Curtis’ first question is “how long have you known about this?” Dude, Original Team Arrow has been rather busy trying to prevent Cayden James from acquiring more resources. Chill the ’tude. Hearing that Cayden is also now in league with the Bratva and Ricardo Diaz doesn’t faze the newbies. Hearing Vince is now working with criminals instead of killing them only leads Dinah to question Oliver’s word. Rene says keeping them under surveillance (for mere hours! While the team was searching for the rat, who turned out to be you!) puts Oliver and Cayden on the same level. Diggle says it was for the good of the team but Curtis, the hypocrite who put tracking nanites in Felicity’s pancakes last season, asks if that’s how he sleeps at night. No, dude. Original Team Arrow did nothing more than follow your GPS signal, which is something parents all over the world have done to errant, irresponsible children. You put trackers in a woman’s body without her knowledge and without her consent. I have a four-letter word for that. Do you really want to go there?
*  *  *
Felicity reminds them they are facing an actual breach in security: “You guys gave up on Oliver. You don’t get to stay mad at Daddy because he read your diary and you get to just skip out on curfew. That’s not the way it works.” The liar leaves in a huff while the snitch and the hypocrite stand there in self-righteous anger.

Dinah heads straight for Vince and confronts him with a punch (what’s up with these Black Canaries using violence on the men they’re with? One of Benjamin Percy’s latest Green Arrow comics had Dinah kicking Oliver in the crotch) and tries to arrest him. But he knocks her out and escapes.
*  *  *
Curtis’ main gripe seems to be that some members of the team are treated differently than the others — well, duh! Original Team Arrow has been fighting together as a unit for more than 5 years. Felicity is Oliver’s wife and Diggle is his brother from another mother. They’ve survived earthquake machines, Mirakuru soldiers, the League of Assassins and magically enhanced villains together. They’ve fought, yes, and kept secrets from each other. But they’ve never betrayed each other.
*  *  *
The idiots, I mean the newbies, decided to move into the old Helix headquarters for their lair. God, I hope Cayden is monitoring that site and fries them. Dinah, the one who lied to the team about Vince, says she’s glad to find partners she can trust. Rene, who betrayed Oliver to the FBI, toasts to that. With teammates like those, I would wish Curtis all the luck, if he weren’t such a hypocrite.
*  *  *
Nice detail of the newbies’ logos being in red and the Original Team Arrow in green.

Edited January 29, 2018 by tv echo

[Soulfire]

Thread with excerpts from the book --

A few examples --

[tv echo]

^^^ Thanks! I'm still waiting to get my copy of this book from Amazon. It might be a few weeks because I ordered other stuff along with that book.

Edited January 31, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow 6x11 Recap: "We Fall" (The Price We Pay) [Contributor: Marilyn]
Just About Write   January 29, 2018
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2018/01/arrow-6x11-recap-we-fall-price-we-pay.html

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This week’s Arrow was a singularly fantastic episode, perhaps one of the best of the series. That’s not hyperbole either. This episode brought together all the elements that make Arrow great and even gave us something new to love: a strong family dynamic. And, shock of all shocks, I loved it.
*  *  *
They show up at the safe zone and are joined by Dig and Oliver, who were alerted by Curtis about what was happening. This one time they agree to work together. And right on cue, Cayden’s crew shows up with guns to terrorize the citizens. The heroes drop in and engage the gunmen while Felicity and William watch from the bunker. Actually William is nervous, concerned for his father. She gives him this great speech about how Oliver does what he does, why he does it… but how she loves him anyhow. Because there’s no guarantees in life, especially this one, but it’s worth it to help. This wonderful speech is intercut with shots of the team fighting the gunmen and it’s really rather stunning. Vinnie saves Rene in the field and Dinah sees it. And William starts to get perspective on why his father does what he does, and how important it is to have faith in those we love. THIS right here is why I love the show.
*  *  *
This was a great episode, solid from start to finish. Yes, the newbies are continuing to be super annoying. But I think it’s beyond apparent by now that their overconfidence is a house of cards and that will come tumbling down soon. They’re cocky and arrogant and that will work against them. The only questions are how and when? The rest of the episode gave us a blessed lack of Black Siren (and so Quentin and Thea weren’t weighed down like last week) and a lovely abundance of Felicity really getting into the groove of being a step-mother. Plus, Oliver is no longer lying to his son about being the Green Arrow so that is also a good development. If only all Arrow episodes could resonate like this one, we would be a lucky fandom indeed.

Edited January 30, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 103
Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres  01/29/2018   
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

-- Craig and Tatiana both thought that 611 was a good episode. Tatiana thought that it seemed like a season finale or right before a season finale. Craig agreed that it didn't seem like Arrow's typical Episode 11 because a lot happened, there was "a lot of character stuff" (for more than one character), and it wasn't filler.

-- Craig loved the way they integrated Felicity into WIlliam's life and also how William was made to see what his father did for the city as the Green Arrow and why it was good for the city. Tatiana can't believe that William isn't "secretly Felicity's child because he is so much equal parts Felicity and Ollie," so she's "sad that he isn't their actual child."

-- Craig thought that Felicity's big speech to William about Oliver was "very heartfelt, very moving, very powerful" and that EBR "really delivered." Tatiana: "She killed it... It's moments like that that make me even more irritated that, like, none of the - most of the shows that we discussion this podcast will never get the respect of even being considered for certain awards... When you have performances like Emily Bett here, or, you know, Ming-Na or Elizabeth Henstridge [in Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.], they are bringing it, you know what I mean? And yes, it is a genre show, but they're certainly doing better, or as good if not better work, than some of the people who get nominated for dramas like regular, you know, dramas... It's frustrating."

-- Tatiana was skeptical that the Vigilante is "truly really on our side" because it seemed "too easy." Craig thought that he could "very well be playing both ends." He didn't think that Vince was lying but that there's more to his agenda. Craig and Tatiana agreed that there "is a lot more going on" with him.

-- Craig said that the "stakes were higher" in this episode. Tatiana joked that the residents of Star City should really move because it was a "horrible city" to live in. It also made her want to judge the residents of Central City and National City because they have it so much better than the residents of Star City. Tatiana noted that, in Star City, "whenever Ollie suffers, the whole city suffers."

-- Tatiana wondered if Oliver's wiring the $10M to Cayden will cause him to get fired as mayor. She also wondered what was going on with the FBI investigation of Oliver. Craig noted that there was still the anti-vigilante law in effect. Tatiana also wondered if they killed off Police Captain Pike to make the city residents feel unsafe without the vigilantes' protection.

Edited January 30, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Hero Oliver Queen Gets a Fancy New Figure From Star Ace Toys
Posted by Jeremy Konrad January 29, 2018 
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/01/29/arrow-oliver-queen-figure-star-ace-toys/

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Arrow is latest DCTV character to get a figure from Star Ace Toys. This Oliver Queen figure will ship in the fall of 2018.
*  *  *
Now in its sixth season, the popular CW TV show, “Arrow” follows billionaire playboy Oliver Queen who returns to his home in Star City after being missing for five years. He takes on the mantle of Green Arrow to take back his city from the villains that control it.
Star Ace’s 1/8 scale Real Master Series Green Arrow collectible figure features two head sculpts featuring both Oliver Queen and the masked Green Arrow. Also included is a full quiver of arrows (non-removeable) and an authentically styled battle suit. The deluxe version includes three extra specialty arrows.

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

That looks nothing like SA. Deliberate choice so they don't have to pay him? ?

[catrox14]

47 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Arrow Hero Oliver Queen Gets a Fancy New Figure From Star Ace Toys
Posted by Jeremy Konrad January 29, 2018 
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/01/29/arrow-oliver-queen-figure-star-ace-toys/

 

Oh my Gods. Who is that? That is not Stephen Amell. LOL

[Sakura12]

From looking at their other pictures they look like they are usually better at getting the likeness. 

[Hiveminder]

Lol. That kind of looks like Tommy, actually. 

[Mary0360]

I don't know, I can see similarities to Stephen. 

[apinknightmare]

My main issue is with the suit size. It looks about 2 sizes too big for Oliver/Oliver adjacent person. 

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ recap: Family matters
Thaddeus Jones   January 30, 2018
https://medium.com/@thaddeus.jones90/arrow-recap-family-matters-6c4fc9fd4c4

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Despite having fancy new computers and an actual police lieutenant on their team, the newbies are unaware of the attacks until Felicity gives them a heads-up. I guess Curtis hasn’t managed to set up Google alerts. Vince warns Not Team Arrow of an imminent subway collision, explaining he was working undercover with Cayden’s team. Curtis elects not to tell his teammates the source of his intel right away and only comes clean after they prevent the subway crash. Dinah and Rene, who both know a little something about being untrustworthy, aren’t happy.
*  *  *
Felicity doesn’t ignore Oliver’s flaws nor does she try to sugarcoat the dangers of the job. She gives William the whole truth—the good, the bad and the ugly. And it works, because if there’s one person who knows everything about Oliver and the mission, it’s Felicity Smoak aka Overwatch. She’d seen it all as the eyes and ears of Green Arrow and as the woman who loves and is loved by the man under the hood. Emily Bett Rickards, who excels in quiet, nuanced scenes like these, brings all that history between Felicity and Oliver to that speech and that’s why it rings so true.
*  *  *
Where did Curtis get the money to get all the equipment for Not Team Arrow’s lair? Is he not unemployed?

Can Not Team Arrow get any more annoying? I thought that “suit up” debate would never end.

Sharing intel is apparently a one-way street for NoTA. They refused to share who they got the warning from regarding the attack on the safe zone.

“I’d rather have a team I can trust than any kind of technology,” says Dinah Drake, you know, the chick who lied about Vince to her former teammates.

Why is Rene acting so pissy? He was tossed off the team after he and Curtis put Oliver’s life in danger by turning off their comms and abandoning post. Despite that, Oliver offered an olive branch that he and teammates stomped on.

Edited January 31, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

We Fall - Arrow Music Notes 6x11
Austencello  January 31, 2018
https://austencello.tumblr.com/post/170346389384/we-fall-arrow-music-notes-6x11

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... This episode focuses on three lies that are brought to the surface and revealed: that Oliver is the Green Arrow (to William), Vince is a double agent (to Dinah and her team), and that Oliver killed Cayden’s son (which seems to be a set-up).  Due to limited time this week, I will focus on the music for William and his family.
*  *  *
The episode begins with the happy domestic Queen family as William prepares for his field trip.  Humorous strings (often used for cheerful or humorous Felicity moments such as “Felicity Fan” in 5x11) begin as William turns to Felicity for homework help and slightly crushes Oliver.  Strings take over as Felicity and Oliver share a very sweet kiss before the killer hacks in Star City interrupt.
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Later on, William is upset to find out that his Dad has been lying to him regarding being the Green Arrow again.  However, his concern comes out of worry and as Oliver and the teams are fighting Cayden’s men, he approaches Felicity in the lair asking whether she worries about him too.  Felicity responds with a beautiful speech interspersed with the fights that yes, she worries but she has to believe that he will be ok and so should William.  She knows both the hero and the flawed man that Oliver is but chooses to love him as both, trusting him and the sacrifices that both of them choose to make for this life.  The theme played through this scene is “Not Black and White” from 4x23.  At that moment, Oliver struggled with Laurel’s death and the fact that he killed Darhk, concerned about the darkness of his soul affecting those around him.  Felicity reminded him that he gave the city back its hope (the second part of the theme is actually used earlier in 4x23 “Rallying the City” and then later in the scene Oliver gets sworn in as mayor.)  Victory and tragedy is almost always intertwined.  I would argue that this is Oliver’s new main theme having been used at least seven times since 4x23.  Until then, his main returning theme was “I forgot who I was” (1x05) which was very fitting for a man hardened by his 5 years away returning as a killing vigilante.  During the following seasons, Oliver has struggled with remembering who he has been and falling into his isolating, dark patterns of surviving on his own without relying on others. The last season helped Oliver put aside his past and look forward to the future.  Which is why I believe that “Not Black and White” is much more fitting and appropriate for his current journey.  Oliver doesn’t need to look back weighed down by the past in the same way but now can look forward balancing light and darkness: being a vigilante hero and mayor, being a father, a brother, a husband.  A man who loves his family and his city no matter the cost.
*  *  *
At the end, they have a family meeting as Oliver apologizes for lying and offers to stop being the Green Arrow if William wants it while the horn and strings plays the slow version of the Arrow theme. William admits that he understands now and thinks it is kind of cool as the melody switches to violins with harp accompaniment (Felicity’s instrument) as he is not as worried being left an orphan since he also has Felicity now. This slow motif accompanies many of Oliver’s intimate scenes from “I forgot who I was” to “The Man Under the Hood” (S2) to “Part of a Team” (4x11) to “Message to William” (4x15) to “Your Son is Dead” (5x23).  This one is a happier scene (reflected in the harmonies and choice of instruments) but still tinged with sadness due to the heaviness and revelations of the day.
*  *  *
- there were a lot of great small moments in the lair: William as he processes (flute and strings), harp with Diggle and Felicity, Oliver and Felicity about talking to William with truth (strings and piano - Oliver’s instrument).  

Edited January 31, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’: Team Arrow 2.0 Has More Trust Issues Than The Original One [Opinion]
Mark Wilson   January 30, 2018
https://www.inquisitr.com/opinion/4762152/arrow-team-arrow-2-0-has-more-trust-issues-than-the-original-one/

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Curtis, Dinah, and Rene decided to leave Team Arrow and start their own. While they don’t officially have a name, we’ll just call them Team Arrow 2.0 for now. Their reason for their defection was caused by what they deemed as unfair treatment by Oliver, Felicity, and John. While they have a point, the reason for that has just been brushed aside. There was a mole on the team. One of the members decided to throw Oliver under the bus, and they needed to find out who it was. So, not to be lied to, they placed trackers on Dinah, Curtis, and Rene.

The original team figured it was Dinah who was the mole, however, it turned out to be Rene. The hockey mask-wearing crime fighter was put in a tough spot in terms of his daughter and thought giving up Oliver was his only option. Instead of apologizing, Rene was the first to leave, followed by Dinah and then by Curtis. Their reason: lack of trust from Oliver, John, and Felicity. They had a point, however, it was the original team that should have felt betrayed, not the newbies.

What Rene was set to do was awful. To get his daughter back, he was ready to throw Oliver in jail. Oliver was not only his boss, but his friend, his teammate, a father, a husband, and the protector of Starling City. Rene was about to throw that all away but yet, he was the one who felt betrayed. Makes no sense at all.
*  *  *
Now, they have formed their own team and yet, they have managed to do exactly the same thing they blamed Oliver for. But no one has noticed. To start, when they got to their new base, they made a toast for being around people they can trust. How so? Didn’t all this start by Rene giving up one of his teammates? How can Curtis and Dinah trust Rene after what he did? Forget the reason, he still tried to throw Oliver in jail. Why is that forgiven?

Dinah is no better. Wasn’t she the one meeting with Vincent behind everyone’s back? Last I checked, he was set on killing everyone on Team Arrow, and here she is having secret meetings with him with no real reason to know if he can be trusted, as mentioned by Bleeding Cool News. And lastly, there’s Curtis. He received info from Vince that Cayden James planned an attack underground; however, instead of letting his team know where the info came from, he kept it a secret.
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In trying to be better than the original Team Arrow, version 2.0 is worse off because they have no leadership and their team was built off of dishonesty to begin with.

Edited January 31, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Has Failed This Fandom… But It Can Still Be Saved
by Hannah Collins    January 31, 2018
https://www.cbr.com/arrow-tv-save-failure/

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Since joining Arrow, The Flash and Supergirl have consistently beaten the green archer in the ratings battle. Although there has been no confirmation yet from The CW that any Arrowverse series will be renewed, the president of the network has indicated all of them are likely to return. This begs the unavoidable question: How, and when, did things go so wrong for Arrow, and what can the series do to prove that it’s still the show this fanbase needs?

Let’s cut straight to the hard question — do we really care about any of the new additions to Team Arrow? Despite Oliver steadily building up a capable support team around him — Diggle, Felicity, Black Canary, Arsenal and Speedy — the first four seasons of Arrow still felt very much focussed on a gruff, lone avenger archetype. This format shifted dramatically in Season 5 when “The” Arrow officially became “Team” Arrow, with the induction of new recruits Curtis Holt (Mister Terrific) Rene Ramirez (Wild Dog) Evelyn Sharp (Artemis) and Rory Regan (Ragman.) By Season 6, the roster shrank back down to just Mister Terrific and Wild Dog, adding Dinah Drake as the new Black Canary. After a poorly received Season 4 finale, it wasn’t surprising that the writers felt a radically new direction was needed to inject some more life back into the show. Unfortunately, the payoff just hasn’t worked. We’ve had nearly two full seasons to warm up to Team Arrow and, compared to the way that “Team Flash” sparks off one another, the newer series regulars still leave us cold.
*  *  *
Speaking of Malcolm Merlyn, another of the most persistent problems plaguing Arrow is that it seems to live or die by the strength of its villains and not its heroes. The most poorly received seasons, four and six, correlate directly with lukewarm villains, and vice versa with the stronger ones. With the rights to use fan-favorite Deathstroke now off the table for the foreseeable future, this might be even more of an uphill battle for the show.

By far the hardest thing for Arrow to try and fix, however, is the competition it faces from Netflix’s mature Marvel shows. The Flash, Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow largely escape this issue by virtue of leaning more heavily into sci-fi and fantasy than The Defenders-verse does. But, Arrow‘s street-level, grittier tone makes it a direct rival, and it often struggles to measure up. Given the show has to appeal to a younger audience this isn’t completely its fault but it often feels like its falling between two stools — not tough enough for adults and not fun enough for kids.

It doesn’t help, either, that Arrow keeps flirting with the kind of social and political commentary — drug addiction, gun control, political corruption, journalistic ethics, etc. — that Netflix’s Marvel shows are able to dive far deeper into. ...

Arrow, even at its worst, is not a bad TV show, per se. And, like its former-playboy hero, it still has a shot at redemption. In terms of the villain problem, obviously consistency is key. ...
*  *  *
The latest incarnation of Team Arrow seems to be on hiatus at this point in Season 6, so perhaps it’s time to consider, as we edge closer to a possible Season 7, whether that hiatus should be a permanent one. It sounds cruel, but a character “cull” might be a necessary way to stop the series feeling overstuffed with personalities who aren’t pulling their weight. This may, of course, seem like a bit of a cop out, so alternatively, if Team Arrow are here to stay then stronger characterization needs to be prioritized.

This is where Arrow could learn a lot from The CW’s longest running genre show, Supernatural. The sole reason Supernatural has survived so long is because the viewers fell in love with the characters, meaning weaker seasons slip by more easily because, to its longtime fans, tuning in has more to do with catching up with “old friends” than it is about the story those friends are part of.

The key to this for Arrow is to make more room for “downtime” episodes, which again, is something Supernatural has been very successful at. We don’t necessarily need as much “filler” as the latter show is sometimes guilty of, but one or two episodes in the vein of the bachelor party episode from the current season of The Flash, where our super-serious heroes and heroines can cut loose could really help us connect more with them. “Side quests,” like Oliver helping Slade Wilson track down his estranged son, are too heavy in tone to really count towards this. At the moment, aside from the bright spot of Oliver and Felicity’s wedding party, it feels as though Team Arrow works 24/7, both as heroes and civilians, and their relationships — aside from romantic entanglements — still come across as oddly formal. Team Flash, on the other hand, have a strong familial bond and the kind of zippy banter you might hear across the dinner table from your own family.

Edited January 31, 2018 by tv echo

[WindofChange]

59 minutes ago, tv echo said:

it feels as though Team Arrow works 24/7, both as heroes and civilians, and their relationships — aside from romantic entanglements — still come across as oddly formal. Team Flash, on the other hand, have a strong familial bond and the kind of zippy banter you might hear across the dinner table from your own family.

I feel as though the relationship between OTA and Newbies is a bit formal but I think it's a load of BS if one says Team Flash (Caitlin/Cisco/Barry/Wells/Iris) are closer than Oliver/Felicity/Diggle...

Edited January 31, 2018 by WindofChange

[Midnight Lullaby]

It’s simply due to the fact that they have different personalities..you get a “zippy banter” even if you put Felicity with Cisco and Barry, it doesn’t mean she is closer to them than she is to Oliver and Diggle.

[WindofChange]

Just now, Midnight Lullaby said:

It’s simply due to the fact that they have different personalities..you get a “zippy banter” even if you put Felicity with Cisco and Barry, it doesn’t mean she is closer to them than she is to Oliver and Diggle.

Pretty much. Oliver/Diggle aren't ones for zippy banter and it's been that way since season 1. But that doesn't define how close they are. They'd kill for one another, die for one another, do anything they possibly could to save one another. I can't really say that about any of the Flash characters, really.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I read that as referring to OTA and the noobs having oddly formal relationships, not within OTA. 

[BkWurm1]

13 hours ago, tv echo said:

After a poorly received Season 4 finale, it wasn’t surprising that the writers felt a radically new direction was needed to inject some more life back into the show.

I just don't think the ending of season four was why they brought in the newbs.  If anything, I think the newbs were probably already planned before they shot the end of season four.  They killed off Laurel, they teased Evelyn, they retired Speedy, let Curtis visit the bunker to get his feet wet,  and they shipped off Diggle.  One was not the result of the other since they cleared the deck for the new team to show up before season four ever ended.  

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I just don't think the ending of season four was why they brought in the newbs.  If anything, I think the newbs were probably already planned before they shot the end of season four. 

That seems logical. After four seasons,  shows get stale and they were probably looking to re-energize Arrow before viewership dropped off. Unfortunately they made two bad assumptions:  that we would like the n00bs as much as we liked the original characters; and that seeing Oliver and Felicity date other people and pine for each other from afar would work as well in season 5 as it did in season 1.

[SmallScreenDiva]

If they wanted to re-energize Arrow, then maybe they shouldn't have stuffed it full to the gills with annoying newbies. And if they wanted to give Stephen Amell a break, then maybe they should have put characters the audience actually enjoy to the forefront (Felicity and Diggle) instead of another fucking bird.

[thegirlsleuth]

I do think they were planning to bring on some newbies, but I feel like Dinah was a late addition to their plans.

[lemotomato]

Seems to me that the addition of the newbies was a DC mandate, since the Wild Dog comics got revived around the time of the season 5 premiere. I think it's a tossup between DC and the WB/CW on who decided a new BC had to be brought back. Like it or not, the network loves masks, and probably felt the need for more women in masks.

[Guest]

I have to admit I kinda somewhat agree with that CBR article? Not in the sense of it failing its fandom or anything so dramatic but it does make some valuable points, IMO.

I do think the newbies are a problem. And while I get that DC likely want them to put as many masks into the show as possible (also an issue, IMO) and I understand the need to keep things fresh after 6 years, Arrow always goes the wrong way about it. Every year the writers just want to focus on their shiny new toy and it's always at the expense of the core characters. If you want everyone to be invested in the newbies, stop shoving them down our throats so much. Take it slowly. Joining the team and suiting up should be something that is earned and not just handed to them because comics. Show balance. Mix up the pairings of the characters so everyone gets to shine and different relationship dynamics have some actual on screen development. As it stands now I don't think OTA are friends with the newbies at all. It's just formal and weird and there's just no connection.

(If it were up to me I'd cut the team right down because it's massively overcrowded, but obviously there's a reason why they shoved 3 comic canon characters onto the show and that might be out of the writers control. IDK.)

Mainly I just think they shouldn't forget the reason why many people still watch this show - original characters and dynamics. Arrow has a loyal audience for a reason. 

Also, they need to stop keeping villains around for the sake of it. Malcolm Merlyn stayed on this show 2 seasons too long, probably because they liked JB, but it was at the detriment to both Oliver and Thea as characters. Thea especially. 

There are other things, sure, but those are what immediately come to mind. Just IMO.

[MissLucas]

Well, if they are so desperate for the newbies to become a tv franchise then ship them off to their spin-off. It's clear that right now they're the show's biggest problem. I just binge-watched season 2 where team Arrow also added new characters and the difference to this season is painfully obvious.

ETA: Or send them over to LOT - I'd love to see Rene trying his blondie-shtick on Sara.

Edited February 1, 2018 by MissLucas

[tangerine95]

I think bringing in 3 characters to be a part of a team as late as season 5 was always going to be a tough sell.At that point imo the audience is pretty established and big changes like that are hard to accept unless they're just amazingly interesting and well written characters which I can't say the newbies are even close to.Maybe one character they could have pushed but they added 5 new masks in season 5 and then kept 3.It's really way too much.

Imo the biggest mistake they make is that they won't let the sidekicks be sidekicks.This is like the second time a new team shows up with much less experience or training and demands to be treated as equals and to make the team a democracy when it's a show literally called arrow.Then they have that team act like assholes to Oliver,reject his leadership,just act entitled overall.And to make it worse this time the newbies are literally the ones in the wrong to the point of Rene trying to put him in jail.And their issue isn't even just wanting an equal say in the team,they want Oliver to have them same level of trust in them as he does in Digg and Felicity.It's just a lot of stuff to have new characters demand and a pretty bad way to write a team dynamic.Plus it's just getting old,arrow changes team members apart from OTA way too much and it's hard to take any of them seriously anymore when they're all so replaceable.

[tv echo]

No spoilers quoted below (however - warning: related podcast contains spoilery hints for Arrow)...

Showbiz Analysis: Michael Emerson Talks Arrow, Person of Interest and Technology 
BY DR. NANCY BERK   FEBRUARY 1, 2018 – 3:40 PM  
https://parade.com/642630/nancyberk/showbiz-analysis-michael-emerson-talks-arrow-person-of-interest-and-technology/

Quote

These days he’s balancing the personality types— portraying comic book villain Cayden James in the CW favorite Arrow and eccentric, reclusive collector Morton Norton in the Golden Globe-winning Amazon series Mozart in the Jungle.

“I can indulge myself in villainhood a little more broadly,” says Emerson about his Arrow experience.

“I think the show has a very stylish setting. The production values are stunning…it’s like a feature film quality. And it all takes place seemingly at night. And the people, they’re very well dressed and they have amazing powers and they do amazing things. So it’s kind of fun. And I don’t have to find quite as much nuance maybe as I might do for a different kind of narrative.”

“I have been fortunate since Person of Interest wrapped, to get to play some of the odd periphery of the character actor world. So you know, I get to play a snarling super-villain [in Arrow] and I get to play a really flamboyantly eccentric, silly person on Mozart in the Jungle which was a lot of fun.

You can listen to the entire podcast interview with ME here:
Michael Emerson Talks Arrow, Person of Interest, and Technology – Episode 414 
Whine At 9   January 31st, 2018
http://whineat9.com/?p=4120

Edited February 1, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A.V. Club reviewer gave 612 a C- ...

A bleak Arrow is also blunt and kind of boring
Allison Shoemaker   February 2, 2018
https://www.avclub.com/a-bleak-arrow-is-also-blunt-and-kind-of-boring-1822648086

Quote

It’s bleak, to use the short version. And that would be fine, but it’s also not much else.
*  *  *
It’s not impossible to put together a relentlessly dark hour that’s peppered with moments of, if not lightness, at least vim and vigor. That’s not to say that it has to be funny or particularly action-heavy, though Arrow has proven on more than one occasion that it’s capable of all three at once. It’s also not that this series, or any series, can’t spend an hour setting up a major turn of events for one of its characters. But if it’s going for dark, it has to be more than dark. If it’s about setting things up, it has to be something else, too. If it’s both, god help us, it’s at least got to be energetic.

The most bewildering choice in Arrow’s big Vicent Sobel hour is the decision to include flashbacks to the beginning of his relationship to Dinah and then center those flashbacks almost exclusively on stuff we already know. Listen, a series of Dinah and Vincent scenes wouldn’t be high on my list of desired flashbacks, and the number one item on that list is definitely ‘no flashbacks,’ so personal preference comes into play here. But if this is important to the story — to this episode, and presumably, to the rest of the season — then why spend the time on plot, rather than character, especially if we already know what happens?

Don’t show us when they met, show us when, and more importantly why, they began to fall in love. Don’t show us the moment they thought they were made, show us what they did to comfort each other. This isn’t a critic being prescriptive. This is just common sense. If we already know what happened — they were undercover together, they got made, particle accelerator explosion — then at minimum we should learn more about the characters and their relationship. Otherwise, why on earth would you even spend the time?

In this case, it seems the point was the continued redemption tour for Vigilante, a character who was attempting to assassinate city counselors about five minutes ago. Such an arc is somehow possible, something evidenced by this show’s existence. The issue is not the transformation, but the speed: all of a sudden, Vincent Sobel’s gone from broken, dark, and kill-happy to soulful and steadfast. Put another way, he jumped from the land of early-days Oliver Queen to aw-shucks Oliver Queen in a real damn hurry, and it took actual Oliver Queen a long-ass time to do that.

But Arrow doesn’t have time. Vincent needed to hurry up and get likable so he could die on schedule, so Dinah could go back to being Dark Tina and take up the mantle of early-days Oliver. In that respect, the episode succeeds, and now we’ve basically got Team Arrow and Team Not Arrow That’s Like Early Team Arrow Because Of All The Killing. In terms of table-setting, it gets the job done, but this is also an hour designed to make the audience care that Vincent dies, and to make them understand Dinah’s grief and rage are so all-encompassing. That’s the real mission, and it’s nearly impossible.

The Quentin and Not Laurel story doesn’t fare a ton better, but in that one respect — time — it has the Dinah/Vincent storyline beat. Like so much of this episode, the video scene is so on the nose, but it’s grounded in the emotional experience of a character we’ve spent years with and ties directly to a relationship this show spent several seasons exploring. Sure, there’s that moment when Not Laurel steps into the light and hisses like Nosferatu, but it’s a cool shot, and it neatly sets up the experience that Not Laurel has when she has to decide whether or not to kill Vincent Sobel. It’s not about plot, but about people, and while it’s not top-tier Arrow, it’s effective enough.
*  *  *
I’m a bigger Rene fan than most, but man, he could say Hoss about 50% less and it might still be too much.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

EW reviewer gave 612 a B- ...

Arrow recap: 'All or Nothing'
CHANCELLOR AGARD FEBRUARY 1, 2018 
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-6-episode-12/

Quote

One of the reasons Oliver has had to pay Cayden James $70 million (so far) is that both vigilante teams aren’t sharing information. For example, Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle don’t find out that Vincent is actually undercover in Cayden’s operation until tonight’s episode. Why did Curtis, Rene, and Dinah waited so long to tell them? Because they’re just a little petty — and by “a little,” I mean very. This is information OG Team Arrow could’ve used! But instead, Oliver had to bankrupt the city.
*  *  *
... Dinah gets trapped under a beam and is forced to watch as Cayden orders Laurel to push Vincent’s healing factor to the limit — i.e. kill him. Laurel, who spent the episode kind of reconnecting with Quentin, hesitates, but she eventually screams into Vince’s ear. It’s one of the show’s most gruesome deaths, but it doesn’t land as well it the writers would have hoped because Vincent was such a nothing character. I think the writers half-heartedly tried to make us care about Vincent, or about Vincent and Dinah’s relationship, with flashbacks to their undercover job that went sideways, but the flashback scenes were too fleeting to be effective.

While Vincent’s death landed with a thud, I will say that Harkavy made up for that with how she portrayed Dinah’s grief. She’s visibly broken after it happens — especially once she learns that Vince died for nothing because they weren’t able to recover the bomb either. ... Get ready for the War of the Canaries!
*  *  *
... Paul Blackthorne is giving such a heartfelt performance this season, and his desperation to reconnect with Laurel is truly moving, so the fact that Laurel betrays some of the progress she’s making with Quentin by killing Vince is also shattering. Now I’m dreading Quentin getting caught in the middle of Dinah and Laurel’s feud.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

ARROW: "ALL FOR NOTHING" REVIEW
BY JESSE SCHEEDEN   1 FEB 2018
http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/02/arrow-all-for-nothing-review?abthid=5a73e33f5b17b74d0c00002e

Quote

Barring some significant improvements in the next few months, Arrow: Season 6 seems likely to go down as the show’s worst to date. It’s not as if the show is lacking in stakes at the moment. But despite the gravity of the situation facing Star City, it’s tough to become very invested in this conflict without a compelling, well-established villain. Even as this episode played up the character drama on the Team Arrow side of things, it proved no more successful than any other in molding Cayden James into the villain this season needs.

As I’ve pointed out various times in past reviews, James needs more than the standard “I want revenge for the death of my son” shtick as motivation. It just doesn’t cut it. And as great a character actor as Michael Emerson is, even he can only do so much with what he’s given.
*  *  *
With that in mind, it’s hard to know how to feel about the mounting evidence that there’s a true mastermind villain pulling the strings of James and his team. On one hand, this season already has more recurring villains than it seems to know what to do with. Why pave the way for a new player when current characters like James and Ricardo Diaz are being wasted? On the other, this season needs something to shake things up and give viewers the weighty conflict they enjoyed back when Adrian Chase or Slade Wilson were the ones terrorizing Star City. Whatever the writers are planning with this mystery villain (my money being on either Talia al Ghul or Diaz himself), the reveal needs to happen soon. One of the main lessons from The Flash’s fourth season was that you can’t wait this long to show viewers who the true enemy is.
*  *  *
“All for Nothing” did at least succeed in building and enriching Vigilante as a character. As much as the reveal of his identity felt like disappointing resolution to a yearlong mystery, Vincent has grown quite a bit more compelling as a character in recent weeks as the issue of his true loyalty became paramount. That question, in turn, fueled some memorable friction between the two halves of team Arrow this week. I’ve been very much on the fence about the direction of the mini-Civil War playing out in recent weeks, but after this episode I think I’m happier with the current status quo. Having Dinah, Rene and Curtis forming their own team allows each of these characters more opportunity to shine.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Overmind reviewer thought that 612 was a "solid but unremarkable installment"...

Arrow Season 6 Episode 12 Review: “All For Nothing” 
Chris King  February 2, 2018
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-6-episode-12-review-all-for-nothing

Quote

From the final scene of “All For Nothing,” it’s clear that losing Vincent will dramatically impact Dinah, and while I never fully bought into the romance between the two undercover cops, I am excited to see what an angrier, more unhinged Dinah looks like. (This week’s flashbacks don’t help me believe in the spark between the two of them, but they do express the guilt Dinah feels about what happened to Vince when he went undercover last time and how she feels the need to make up for it this time around.) Essentially, I don’t love how we arrived at this point in the story, but we are here now and it’s a much more compelling direction for Dinah’s character than her secret rendezvouses with her ex. Any conflict created from now on, between Dinah and Oliver or Dinah and Team Newbies, will feel much more genuine and earned than the initial anger that drove her away from the team in the mid-season finale. Plus, Dinah facing off against Black Siren: who doesn’t want to see that?

Furthermore, having Dinah heading down this path doesn’t just open up more exciting story and character opportunities for her; it also gives Oliver the chance to show how he has grown. We’ve seen Oliver in the same place as Dinah before, in this dark, broken hole of existence from which only venom and vengeance can pour out, and he’s been able to climb out of it thanks to Felicity and Diggle. Now that he’s a healthier, more mature Oliver Queen, perhaps he can take a page from his wife and best friend and help his former teammate process the grief and sadness that she’s feeling in a better, less violent way. As Dinah mentions to Oliver during their conversation at the end of the episode, he helped her see the light before, so maybe he can do it again. Similar to last week’s conversation between Oliver and William, any type of guidance he could offer would be a fantastic way to illustrate just how much Oliver has progressed as a character since his breakthrough in Season 5.

But just because Oliver has evolved doesn’t mean that every Arrow character can. While Quentin spends most of “All For Nothing” believing that there’s some of his Laurel somewhere inside of Black Siren, her actions go against his hopes. Black Siren’s decision to murder Vincent for Cayden James, even if she does so reluctantly, proves that there’s currently more darkness than light in her, and even though it’s apparent that she’s conflicted, I’m not sure if, after all she’s done, she can be redeemed. As powerful as that scene in which Quentin shows Black Siren what his Laurel was like, with photos and videos of her from childhood to her days fighting as Black Canary, I can’t help but feel like he’s wasting his time, and that the writers are wasting the talents of both Paul Blackthorne and Willa Holland on a story that has gone on past its expiration date. I think back to much of the material the two actors had together in Season 5, with Thea helping Quentin battle his addiction and the two of them forging a strong father-daughter connection, and I wish Season 6 would continue to develop that relationship rather than have Quentin obsess over this potential redemption for Black Siren. It feels strained at this point, and plus, I enjoy Katie Cassidy playing a villain so much more than her playing a hero (and from the energy she brings to the Black Siren role, I’d argue that Cassidy herself enjoys being a villain more, too).
*  *  *
With his absolutely ridiculous PTSD comment in the Arrowcave, Rene has now surpassed Curtis in terms of most annoying and indignant member of the Newbies. Really though, I think it’s going to be tough for me to like either of them as characters after this whole split-teams storyline is over, and that’s a damn shame because I LOVED them for much of Season 5 and into Season 6. Judging by my Twitter feed, a lot of other Arrow fans agree with me.

In a short but sweet scene, Oliver and Felicity show us that they haven’t forgotten about their long-delayed honeymoon. Here’s hoping Season 6 ends with them on a beach in Aruba. We all want to see it happen, so please make it so, Arrow writers. It will be like the end of Season 3 but better and more fun.

“We turned your room into a home gym…” It’s okay, Felicity. I enjoy your awkward attempts to diffuse tension with humor even if no one else does.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Some jbuffyangel tweets about 612 that I agree with...

[tv echo]

No spoilers (not any more) - here's an additional JU interview (other JU interviews were posted on page 13 of the New Spoilers thread prior to 612 airing)...

‘Arrow': Johann Urb on Vincent vs Vigilante, and His Connection with Dinah
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      FEBRUARY 1, 2018
http://collider.com/arrow-season-6-johann-urb-interview/

Quote

Collider:  We’ve recently learned that there’s so much more going on with Vigilante than we could have imagined. When you signed on to play this character, how much were you told about him and what his journey would be?
JOHANN URB:  I wasn’t told a ton. There were definitely reveals, as I got the scripts. Obviously, the character is really rich in history from the comic books, so I looked into that. Even though the story is slightly different, the essence is the same and that was really helpful in understanding who this guy is and why he does what he does. But it’s been more of a mystery that’s continually revealed, and it’s been really fun to play that, giving myself room to be able to make these turns, whether he’s a good guy or a bad guy, or what his motives are. That’s very human, or perhaps meta-human. Certain things can open you and inspire you, and for Vincent and Vigilante, coming back from the dark side, where he was lost for a little while, has been through Dinah’s love and that connection. That’s been really beautiful to explore.

When you think about and play the character, do you think of him as Vigilante or do you think of him as Vincent?
URB:  Vincent and Vigilante. It depends on the aspect of what we’re focused on. If we go to the part of ourselves that is rage and revenge and retribution, or what triggers us or moves us. I oscillate because the character oscillates between those two place. When we have love in our life, our life is very different than when we shut ourselves off from love. One of the major driving forces when people do bad things or go to the dark side is that they’re not connected to that part of themselves. That basic rule of life certainly applies to Vincent and Vigilante.

Do you see him as a vigilante, do you see him as a villain, do you see him as someone who’s playing everyone, or does he just have his own game plan?
URB:  From my perspective, he’s had his own game plan for a long time and he’s really driven by it, but that’s because he didn’t have a lot of connection. Now that he has more connection in his life, he’s softening, in the sense that you can talk to him and get through to him. There’s room for new ideas and negotiation and going about things differently. That’s the power of connection. That’s how I see it.

What was it like to be able to do scenes in the Arrow Cave with Team Arrow, especially with all of the tension between them? What was it like to get to work with so much of the cast, in those moments?
URB:  Honestly, the first time I worked with all of them, in this episode that’s about to air, I was definitely nervous. Being a fan of the show and seeing these guys, and then you’re in character and in the room with everyone, even though everyone is beyond nice, beyond friendly and so welcoming and kind, I have to say that I definitely fumbled, a couple of times, because I was sweating pretty hard. Hopefully, it played out well. That nervousness can be helpful, but I was definitely extra sweaty. It was definitely a trip to be in there with those guys, with everybody in their outfits. It was surreal, in the best possible way.
*  *  *

If you’re going to be on a superhero show, you want a cool costume to wear, and you also get to have the make-up/prosthetics and the contact in your eye. How much does being in all of that really help get you into the character? 
URB:  It’s very, very helpful. For me, having the scar, and then also having the contact because you can’t see very well out of that eye, it really does help. A lot of it is shot in really low lighting, which adds a sense of danger. You just feel different. You go in much deeper, or at least I go deeper into that role, because of it. For me, it’s very, very helpful.

Before being cast on Arrow, had you been hoping to throw your own hat into the ring with one of these comic book/superhero stories? Is that something you’d been actively pursuing, or was this all a surprise to you?
URB:  It’s definitely been a dream come true for me to play this character, especially because he’s not one-sided. He’s not just a good guy. I love the grey area. I love that there’s room to fluctuate and to not know and to swing with the pendulum from one side to the next. There’s so much richness in that. So, to play a character that walks the line and lives in the grey area, as an actor, is really, really wonderful. It’s a wonderful exercise and a wonderful way to discover even more about humanity and self and what the character has to offer.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow: Busted Mission, New Threat
By Matt Ross February 1st, 2018
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/02/01/arrow-busted-mission-new-threat

Quote

I mean, what can you really say about this season’s Quentin and Laurel storyline that hasn’t already been said? It’s odd and played out. Now, if we were seeing hints or clues that maybe there were two Laurels—one good and one bad—or something like that, I think I’d be more inclined to care. I just didn’t get the angle of her following him. Is it the good Laurel and she’s trying to figure things out?
*  *  *
Vigilante is a cool character and I really don’t think that’s the end of him. Sure, the dude took a beating with an elongated sonic scream straight to the dome, but if history tells us anything, it seems like he was killed a number of times and always comes back. Don’t forget last season’s bullet straight to the head?

One of the little things I appreciated in tonight’s episode was Ollie confronting Vince and telling him straight up that he doesn’t trust him. This is another good example of Ollie’s battlefield smarts and what makes him a good leader when it comes to keeping the team safe. He was absolutely right in his thought process. How do we know that Vince isn’t pulling a double-swerve? Everyone just bought into him saying he wanted to help. Ollie was the only skeptical one—which is a good thing. When dealing with these high-stress and potentially deadly situations, wouldn’t you rather have someone who is going to have your safety in mind, rather than just buy a story hook-line-and-sinker that could potentially hurt you? Credit to Vince, though, he came through and got the info from Cayden’s computer—paying a serious price for it, too.
*  *  *
While on the subject of team stuff, I still have to chuckle a bit at Dinah, Rene and Curtis. Playing the reluctant card all the time. Tonight proved that if they would have put their egos aside and worked together, instead of sending three people to help Vince, they could have gotten the bomb instead and potentially put an end to Cayden and his crew.
*  *  *
The cynic in me thought it wasn’t going to be anything when Felicity said they had recovered some interesting things in Cayden’s files. I assumed it was just some goofy, half-baked twist. But when I saw the security footage of Cayden’s son being struck with the arrow and realizing, along with Ollie, that it was an elaborate fake out, I was instantly intrigued. I love that it’s looking like whoever framed Ollie for the murder of Cayden’s son is most likely the same person who leaked the image of Ollie as the Green Arrow.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ 6×12 Review: ‘All For Nothing’
by ALYSSA BARBIERI   February 2, 2018
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-6x12-review-nothing/

Quote

It’s no secret that I despise New Team Arrow, or New Team Assholes as I affectionately refer to them as. But mostly it’s just Rene and Curtis that seem to be annoying even when they’re not prominently featured in an episode. Dinah, on the other hand, I love. In fact, I feel bad that someone like Dinah has to be associated with these morons. I want more Dinah. Just without the idiots.
*  *  *
But it’s when you look at Vince and why he’s doing this — Dinah — it’s easy to see that this isn’t a game. That’s what Arrow does best. And Vince proved himself. He proved it last week when he saved Rene (eye roll.) He proved it this week, when he put himself on the line to steal information from Cayden James. Alongside the well-placed flashbacks, it was easy to see the real Vince. A man with honor; a man with courage; a man that loved Dinah. But Vince’s bravery and honor ended up costing him his life. With no fault on anyone. He knew what he was getting himself into. He knew the possible outcomes.

The cruelest part of this entire thing wasn’t that Dinah had to watch the man she loved die. It was that she had to watch him die for a second time. And knowing that, this time, it was permanent.
*  *  *
This show has teased on several occasions that a redemption arc is on the horizon for Laurel. The question is: How do we get there? It just doesn’t make sense when this show has shown us at nearly every turn that Laurel is a killer.

But the thing is: Why does Quentin place blind faith in a person that’s proven again and again that they’re a killer? Why? Because she looks like her? Felicity knew the difference between her Oliver and Nazi Oliver in an instant. It didn’t matter that they looked the same. Yet Quentin can’t do the same?
*  *  *
4. Felicity comforting Oliver and being intimate and him smiling reminded me of why I love Olicity so much. Felicity always manages to make Oliver smile during times when it doesn’t seem possible. She can always make him forget. God, he’s smitten. God, she’s smitten. God, I’m smitten.

5. Oliver and Felicity are going to Aruba for their honeymoon (eventually)! That small moment made me smile.

6. How is it that Curtis can be annoying just by standing there with his arms crossed? Can he drop with the holier than thou attitude?
*  *  *
9. Why can’t Arrow do something useful with Anatoly and make him Oliver’s villain. While you’re at it, make Cayden Felicity’s villain and Richard Dragon Diggle’s villain. Now that I would lose it for.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Episode Guide: Season 6, Episode 12 - All For Nothing
Starman   February 1, 2018
http://www.mygeekygeekyways.com/2018/02/arrow-episode-guide-season-6-episode-12.html

Quote

As good as a job as Paul Blackthorne does of selling Quentin's torment, his subplot of trying to convince Black Siren that there is a hero in her is idiotic even before the end of the episode ruins any chance the viewers might have of Black Siren achieving redemption.

Why do Black Siren and Cayden James not kill Black Canary while she's helpless? James may want Oliver Queen to suffer but he has no reason to spare the other heroes of Star City. And since when has Black Siren ever shown restraint when given a chance to kill, much less a chance to take out her arch-rival?

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow, ‘All or Nothing’: Team Arrow Gambles as Siege Drags On
BY CRAIG WACK · FEBRUARY 2, 2018
http://oohlo.com/2018/02/02/arrow-all-or-nothing-team-arrow-gambles-as-siege-drags-on/

Quote

What’s the scoop:  It’s been seven days and $70 million since Cayden James’ thermobaric gambit started and Team Arrow is no closer to cracking James’ airtight defenses. In the spirit of the uneasy alliance between OG Team Arrow and Team Hoss, Felicity has the tech to mine all of James’ digital secrets (and the location of that bomb), and Dinah’s beau, Vigilante is their way in. Unfortunately, James’ paranoia is at a fever pitch so gathering that information is potentially deadly, which causes more than a little tension between Dinah and everyone else.
*  *  *
Sex and the Olicity:  Most of the episode’s sexytimes were devoted Dinah-Vinny makeout sessions in both flashback and in real time. However, the episode did take a minute for a patented Olicity exposition scene where they catch everyone up on the plot, while Felicity lovingly strokes Ollie’s face and shoulders.

*  *  *
So the rescue attempt begins, and two huge logic errors commence. First, Team Arrow is all ticked that they are short-handed searching for the bomb in this cavernous warehouse (Curtis and Rene back Dinah in this situation). However, Diggle says they know James moves the bomb around. With that knowledge, why would you search areas of the building where a truck can’t fit? Don’t you stake out the loading dock to either disable the trucks or ambush the next transfer? The second is far more common for Arrow; Dinah flat forgets she has SUPERPOWERS, and decides that a metal stick is better again goons with guns than her sonic scream.
*  *  *
Last impressions: The death of Vinny notwithstanding, this episode felt a lot like last week’s episode. The stakes really haven’t changed because besides the Star City bank accounts being drained, the situation was largely unchanged. The death of Vinny at Laurel’s hand does complicate the predicted Laurel redemption arc, but it doesn’t kill it. The Arrow writers may be trying to pull a Romeo and Juliet kind of thing where Dinah gets mortally wounded in her murderous rage, only to discover in her last moments that Vinny somehow survived Laurel’s attack, and slowly regenerated. Even if that still happens, Laurel has a lot to atone for if she is to be redeemed. Now that Team Arrow has found a crack in James’ armor, there might be some progress in the next episode.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

THE REDEMPTIVE TALE OF VINCE THE VIGILANTE IN THE LATEST ARROW
Trent Moore   February 2, 2018
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-redemptive-tale-of-vince-the-vigilante-in-the-latest-arrow

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After a career of working undercover, Vince knew the risks, but he knew the potential reward of finding a way to stop James was worth it, anyway. It was a story of redemption we haven’t seen told all that much in the Arrowverse, and though its still hard to agree with all his methods, its clear Vigilante had the good of the city at heart when the chips were down. Even the flashback story this week (have you noticed they’ve been missing a lot these days?) focused on Dinah and Vince, looking back at the assignment where they first met and went undercover with the mob. It shows us a side of Vince we’ve never seen—the cop just trying to do some good, drug in too deep when their covers are blown—an experience that eventually pushes him to put on a mask and try to take out anyone he thinks is a threat.

Seeing the fallout of his death play out on Dinah’s face was brutal, and forcing her to watch Black Siren kill Vince was hard to watch. The disparate parts of Team Arrow(s) have been fraying for a while, but now it seems Dinah is going full Punisher-mode in an effort to stop James once and for all. Thankfully Vince’s sacrifice wasn’t “all for nothing” in the end, and the intel he gathered could finally give Team Arrow (and the other one) an advantage in figuring out how to stop James.
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*We see Argus attempt to come in and help, but as its pointed out in this episode, the lack of a federal response is extremely strange. They need to find a way to explain that away, or something, because as-is it’s just weird that the U.S. government would abandon a city to a terrorist.

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A (re)view from the other side - actually, I'm not missing Malcolm at all...

Arrow: Can Black Siren Still Be Redeemed?
By Lindsay MacDonald | Feb 1, 2018 10:11 PM EST
http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-recap-vigilante-vince-dead/

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Tonight's episode of Arrow was deadly for another character, and frankly we've got to say... STOP KILLING ALL OUR FAVES, ARROW!

The team's scheme to infiltrate Cayden James' (Michael Emerson) operation was brilliant, but predictably flawed. The guy on the inside always gets screwed. Vince (Johann Urb) was discovered as a double agent and murdered right in front of Dinah's (Juliana Harkavay) eyes.
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This new turn is putting Black Siren's redemption arc in serious jeopardy. She's clearly feeling conflicted about her part in the new alliance and her feelings for her pseudo-father, Quentin Lance (Paul Blackthorne). But when push comes to shove, killing an innocent man right in front of the love of his life is something a colder, less redeemable Laurel would do. If she wasn't wearing a face we all know and love, would we even consider her potential to come back from this?

On the other hand, crazier people have returned to the fold. There was a time when Malcolm Merlyn (John Barrowman) was just the worst, and now we're kind of missing that adorable, little fiend.

It's food for though for all of us Laurel fans.
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Vince's sacrifice, however painful, was not in vain, since it actually turned up some new info. Whoever doctored the leaked photo of Oliver as the Green Arrow earlier this year also doctored the footage of him killing Cayden James' son. Whoever this Photoshop savvy person is (and we're not naive enough to think it's a total stranger), they've been putting this feud into motion for a while now.

Is it Laurel, with her new wicked ways? Is in Anatoly, who's proven to be a pretty fair-weather friend recently? Or is it someone even more nefarious?

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Published just prior to 612 airing...

Maintaining “The Soul” of the Black Canary Mantle Going Into Her Most Emotional Episodes
Araceli Aviles  February 1, 2018
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow-2/arrows-juliana-harkavy-explains-maintaining-the-soul-of-the-black-canary-mantle-going-into-her-most-emotional-episodes

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“Whatever people think the season is now, it’s not what it’s going to be.” That was how Juliana Harkavy described the midpoint of Season 6 of Arrow when we sat down at a Heroes & Villains FanFest. She wasn’t kidding. Harkavy’s character Dinah Drake was brought in during the second half of Season 5 to take up the mantle of the previous Black Canary, Katie Cassidy. Since then Harkavy has transformed the role into her own, but Team Arrow has been ... torn in two. For Dinah in particular, “[her divide] fluctuates, but it’s not black-and-white.” But going into tonight’s episode, which Harkavy says is her favorite of the entire season, exploring Dinah Drake’s grey area will take the season forward to what it will be. During our sit-down, Harkavy talked about her pride for tonight’s episode “All For Nothing”, gaining a new family in the latest DCTV crossover, what fan conventions mean to her, and the one difficult stunt she has been relentlessly training for.

“Episodes 10 and 12 [of this season] are really strong episodes and they were difficult, physically and emotionally, to shoot, and I’m really proud of how they came out. They are [big episodes for my character]. They definitely required me to think a lot about what she’s going through. You see some different sides of her.” A huge part of this exploration involves Dinah’s trust of Vigilante, aka her on-and-off flame, Vincent Sobel, as well as her strengthened bond with fellow newbies Wild Dog and Mr. Terrific.  “We might see [a Dinah flashback] coming. I think it’s necessary with Dinah, because she is the newest one on the team. I want people to know more about her. To really know someone, you need to know their true depth.”

Coming up on her one year anniversary on the show, I asked Harkavy if she thought the comparison between her version of the Black Canary and Katie Cassidy’s version, has evened out now that Black Siren is on the canvas. “People will always compare because there was more than one Canary. What people are understanding now is that there doesn’t need to be a competition for different characters. The Canary is a mantle that can be filled by different people who have that energy, who have that soul. I think people are becoming understanding of the differences between the two characters.” That doesn’t mean Harkavy can forget the responsibility of carrying on the name. “I’m a very tough critic of myself, and I feel a lot of responsibility playing this role, because I think she’s a really important character for women. Just living up to my own expectations of who she is and her abilities, I challenge myself in doing enough that does her justice.”
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A huge part of doing Black Canary justice? The fight scenes. “The fight with Black Siren in 5×23 was the most challenging. First of all, it was very late. There was also a lot of fire, so it was very hot. It was just a very intense scene that I was intent on coming out good, because it was the first time we ever fought. That was a really tough one, but it was great. Every time you push your limits, you become stronger. The next time you can do that, and more, and I feel it really prepared me for Season 6.” She wasn’t, however, prepared for the wardrobe malfunctions. “[The costume department] is very diplomatic [about ripped pants]. They consider it an indoctrination. Everybody’s done it once!”

As to whether any fight scenes or flashbacks will take place in Dinah’s hometown of Central City, that’s up to the writers. “I think it would be great! We’ve been building Dinah’s backstory, and how far back do we go? I think incorporating Central City and all those characters in that world would be a wonderful thing to do with Dinah.” This is a point many fans have made, particularly since Central City is where Dinah became a cop, where she met Vigilante, and where she had a rather hilarious 10-second exchange with The Flash‘s Cisco during the most recent crossover. “To see how the other shows worked so well, and how we really are this wheelhouse that works with each other. We’re connected, and we’re one, but we don’t see each other that often. [The crossover] kind of helped me to understand this whole universe better…It made me feel apart of a really big family afterwards.”
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That energy is evident in everything Harkavy is doing on and off-screen. In addition to preparing for the emotional scenes she’s had, she’s been working on a few things the fans have been begging for. “Yes [to seeing Dinah on the salmon ladder]! When exactly, I don’t know. But it’s something I’ve made very clear to the writers that I want to do by the end of the season. I’m learning right now.” She’s also moving forward with the Shetority campaign with the other women of DCTV.

The one thing that Harkavy wants besides the salmon ladder before the end of Season 6? “I would love to see her interact more with Felicity. I would love to see that evolve.” Felicity’s portrayer Emily Bett Rickards concurs, “I just need more scenes with people I don’t have scenes with.”

Edited February 2, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

48 minutes ago, tv echo said:

The one thing that Harkavy wants besides the salmon ladder before the end of Season 6? “I would love to see her interact more with Felicity. I would love to see that evolve.” Felicity’s portrayer Emily Bett Rickards concurs, “I just need more scenes with people I don’t have scenes with.”

Four episodes, I would have been all for that. But now? Nah, I'm good.

[strikera0]

What is it with the salmon ladder obsession of these actresses? If I remember correctly, KC always wanted to do it, too, and even claimed that she can but for whatever reason, the show never let her. IMO, the ladies should be more concerned with getting proper writing for their characters - like maybe asking the writers/producers if they could write more than one emotional beat (in Dinah's case it's anger) for their characters in any given script. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by strikera0

[Guest]

I didn't even realize fans were begging to see Dinah on the salmon ladder. More shirtless Oliver, yes. Dinah? Nah. 

[lemotomato]

I haven't seen fans begging for to see Dinah at all, so I don't know where that interviewer came up with that tidbit.

[EmilyBettFan]

No thanks to Dinah and to JH.

[strikera0]

I just found this opinion piece:

‘Arrow’: It’s Time to Put Quentin Lance Out of His Misery

[Trisha]

I kind of love that William is currently in second place in this poll:

‘Arrow’ Season 6: Who Is the True “Big Bad”? | Poll
http://collider.com/arrow-season-6-big-bad/

Also, TV Line continue to have zero patience for NTA (and a bunch of commenters agree):

Is Riverdale's Dark Betty Story Icky? Did The Good Place Make Petite Erreur? Is SVU College Cursed? And More TV Qs!
http://tvline.com/2018/02/02/riverdale-season-2-dark-betty-tv-questions-answers/

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19 | Is Arrow‘s obstinate Rene officially on your very last nerve, Hoss?