All Episodes Talk: Navigating Litchfield Correctional Facility

[FreakyBunny]

I just finished watching all 13 episodes starting yesterday at 3 pm, and ending today at 3 pm. Overall I thought it was a strong group of episodes. I am looking forward to hearing what everyone else thought about he season in general, as opposed to individual episodes. 

 

[hypnotoad]

I couldn't care less about Larry at this point and every single time we had to switch over to his 'storyline,' I was barely able to force myself to watch (such a hassle fast forwarding on Netflix!). I like Polly but I think she could do a hell of a lot better than Larry (or that lame hubby of hers).

 

Daya and John? ZZZZZZzzzzz. I don't get the point of these two at all. It doesn't help that the actors are chemistry free together.

 

I hated that Crazy Eyes ended up being 'the muscle' for evil Vee. I enjoyed her so much last season, but seeing her enjoy hurting Poussey? Yikes. I know, Suzanne is just looking to fit in and all of that, but I still found it hard to watch.

 

I didn't enjoy Tastee much this season either. Well, actually I didn't much like Cindy or the running girl either. Power corrupts isn't that what they always say?

 

I thought the wrap up with the Vee storyline was a little too quick and pat. Suddenly, everyone gets a clue in the last episode? Plus, I tend to think a user like Vee would just regroup and find a new 'family.' There have got to be a lot of desperate folks in prison looking for a mommy figure. Having said all that, I still enjoyed Vee finally getting hers. Though I was amused that Rosa's reason is because Vee is rude (rather than evil)!

 

I liked the whole season, enjoyed the back stories for our prisoners. Sigh. It's going to be a long wait for the next season!

[Juneaucat]

Thought the season just got better and better as it went.  Hated the first episode with all Piper and didn't love the second ep with no Piper.  I need her to "ground" the series in some way.  Surprisingly, I found I missed her less as things went on.  By the end, all I cared about was Red and whether or not Vee was going down.  I feel like the season hit its stride with Ep 4 about Morello.  It was the first one that felt the most like Season 1.

 

The season was much more violent than I'd have liked, but I knew that was coming.  Jenji said in an interview that Season 2 was going to be darker, that Season 1 was almost like camp and getting too sweet.  But being a Sopranos watcher/survivor (often through barely opened fingers), I was so grateful it never got graphic and ended pretty quickly.

 

Unpopular opinion ahead:  I totally get that these are human beings who deserve humane treatment.  But...I get tired of the constant implication in the series and even more so in the book that these people just barely stepped a toe over the line and ended up in prison.  That the big bad world is out to get them and we on the outside should thank our lucky stars it hasn't happened to us yet.  Yes, people get imprisoned unfairly.  But the majority of them?  Not buying it.  Many of the people have real issues, often related to mental illness, and have done very bad things.  No one wants to perceive themselves as a bad person.  But what makes a person bad if not what they do?  They rationalized a lot of their behavior, but the victims feel otherwise.  I know they're people, but they're not all good people.  I know Jenji is trying to ride that line by not having us sympathize with every prisoner, just 95% of them.

 

Related to that, I liked that they humanized the guards more.  I know the real Piper thinks all guards are the devil incarnate, but knowing several irl, I know that's not the case.  Some abuse their power without question.  But many are trying to do their jobs, protect inmates from each other and not get hurt themselves.  If this series has shown me anything, it's that very bad people can look very nice and smile and be lovely...and slock you without a second thought.  They have to keep their guard (no pun intended) up.

[CodeNameDuchess]

Binge-watched the whole season over the weekend and loved it!  Definitely darker and with the Machiavellian Vee.  I'm not quite sure how I felt about her death.  It was deserved for sure, but came across almost cartoonish (much like the Bugs Bunny tunnel). 

 

The episode with the flooding was super tense!  I was fully expecting a riot to break at that point.  Speaking of which, I wonder if all that new riot equipment will come into play next year?  Caputo is already starting to crack with the stress of the new gig and has something to prove to the warden.

 

Loved how Vause got caught with a revolver after screwing Piper over yet again.  Their sexual spy vs. spy dynamic is one of my favorite parts of the show.

[CofCinci]

Did you finish binge watching yet? Comparatively, which season was the better of the two?

[Ankai]

Unpopular opinion ahead:  I totally get that these are human beings who deserve humane treatment.  But...I get tired of the constant implication in the series and even more so in the book that these people just barely stepped a toe over the line and ended up in prison.  That the big bad world is out to get them and we on the outside should thank our lucky stars it hasn't happened to us yet.  Yes, people get imprisoned unfairly.  But the majority of them?  Not buying it.  Many of the people have real issues, often related to mental illness, and have done very bad things.  No one wants to perceive themselves as a bad person.  But what makes a person bad if not what they do?  They rationalized a lot of their behavior, but the victims feel otherwise.  I know they're people, but they're not all good people.  I know Jenji is trying to ride that line by not having us sympathize with every prisoner, just 95% of them.

I suppose that the "just barely stepped a toe over the line" could apply to a few prisoners, such as Watson or Daya, but not all of them. Aleida, Alex, Cindy, Miss Claudette, Gloria, Red, Taystee, were already deep into illicit activity when they got caught. Both Morello and Pennsatucky almost committed murder for no good reason. Rosa could very well have killed that guard had her gun actually been loaded. Yoga Jones DID kill someone while guarding her illegal operation. Vee may seem to have been the worst of the bunch, but she is hardly an isolated case.

[Happy to be here]

I think the major draw of season 1 was the Piper and Alex romance so much so I was one of the crowd waving pitch forks when I heard Laura Prepon wasn't going to be on Season 2.  However half way though season 2 I realized how little I missed her.  I think Season 2 is far better because it is where it stopped being the Piper Chapman show and became a full on ensemble.    Piper is still the center of the universe (As Larry called her "The Sun") and the show still revolves around her but she is no longer the only reason I watch...or even the major reason I watch.  

Edited June 10, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[Mya Stone]

I much preferred this season to last.

Reasons: more ensemble, less time spent on Piper's backstory, more realistic villain in Vee vs Pennsyltucky, less Larry, sense of familiarity, fleshing out the side characters and making them fully realized (especially Gloria, Rosa, Suzanne, and Poussey); the racial tensions and tribe stories were stronger than the drug game in S1 (IMO of course).

The cons? Less Alex, less Pornstache (can't help it, I love the twisted effer). Needs more Nicky.

[Pixel]

But...I get tired of the constant implication in the series and even more so in the book that these people just barely stepped a toe over the line and ended up in prison.

 

Yeah, but I think some of that is necessary because they want us to like most of the characters. It's hard to like someone who has committed a heinous act.

[kitcloudkicker]

Eh, I don't think the intent is to have us like everyone, but to paint people in shades of gray. Most people who do criminal things aren't "monsters" but people who have made bad choices, or who's life circumstances have backed them into making choices that seemed logical or like the only way out, or who have made dumb mistakes, or yes, were kind of legitimately shitty people, but it's definitely not a black and white, "good people," "bad people" thing. We as a society have a tendency to write off "bad people" as monsters, and that's in the end so much more damaging than seeing their humanity. Like when someone gets accused of a sex crime and everyone around them goes, "Oh no, they couldn't have done that, they were always so nice and upstanding to me!" Yes, all of those can be true at the same time, someone can be an awesome dad, and a criminal, or a great friend, but also a criminal, etc. The thing I like about this show, and Game of Thrones is pretty good at this too, is it lets you see people as complex beings, not all good, not all bad. 

 

Like Healy this season - he got a bit cartoonishly villainous at the end of last season, and this season doesn't absolve him of that - he's got some pretty shitty views on women, and a horrible temper, but it lets you see him try to be a good person within his view of the world and occasionally do the right thing. And Morello - the fact that she's kind of adorable and sweet most of the time doesn't absolve her of her casual racism and stalking. And you can still like her, and think that at the same time. There's no sorting people into the "good" people and the "bad" people.

[DangerousMinds]

A lot of the women seem to be imprisoned for drug activity, and in most cases I don't find that to be "monstrous." I have more of a problem with the drug laws and sentencing issues. Also, being imprisoned for drugs many times makes that person a felon for life, almost guaranteeing that they will have very little chance of getting a decent job and the ability to move forward in life after their sentence ends. So many end up involved in drugs/illegal activity again, because they are left with few other options. We saw what happened to Taystee when she easy released in season 1. And she has so much potential IMO if she were given a real chance.

[Juneaucat]

I guess that's my point.  I do see the "little" drug activities a big deal because they contribute the larger drug problems.  Piper didn't realize (in the book) until far into her sentence that her seemingly small trafficking (never saw or touched drugs, just moved some money) helped contribute to destroying lives of people like her friend who was addicted to heroin.  She saw that she was a cog in that giant machine of crime and addiction.  One little mule makes a difference, so to speak.  And same with the "minor" credit card fraud that puts people like Sophia and Morello in prison (I don't think Morello was in federal prison for her stalking, although she should be).  That fraud affects all of us who pay our bills.  I don't think most of them are so far gone with their actions that they can't become contributing members of society.  But as long as they have that, "I didn't really do anything wrong.  I just got caught" attitude, they won't.  Are they repentant or not?  I would say many aren't.  They feel they were wronged, not that they genuinely did something wrong themselves.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Juneaucat

[Brn2bwild]

Thought the season was great (just finished watching last night).  The one false note, I thought, was that the black main characters weren't more concerned about the blowback they might receive from other inmates if they stopped being Vee's henchmen.  Gee, you just decided to stop bullying and everything will go back to normal?  It probably will, but I could see one reason for hesitation being that they've burned too many bridges and can't go back without facing serious repercussions. 

[Ankai]

I guess that's my point.  I do see the "little" drug activities a big deal because they contribute the larger drug problems.  Piper didn't realize (in the book) until far into her sentence that her seemingly small trafficking (never saw or touched drugs, just moved some money) helped contribute to destroying lives of people like her friend who was addicted to heroin.  She saw that she was a cog in that giant machine of crime and addiction.  One little mule makes a difference, so to speak.  And same with the "minor" credit card fraud that puts people like Sophia and Morello in prison (I don't think Morello was in federal prison for her stalking, although she should be).  That fraud affects all of us who pay our bills.  I don't think most of them are so far gone with their actions that they can't become contributing members of society.  But as long as they have that, "I didn't really do anything wrong.  I just got caught" attitude, they won't.  Are they repentant or not?  I would say many aren't.  They feel they were wronged, not that they genuinely did something wrong themselves.

That may be true, but I think that one reason for this is that the show provides absolutely no means of getting the prisoners to come to terms with what they did. Getting sent to prison was not so much a punishment, but a means of isolating them and their actions from society. Aside from that mock job competition, there did not seem to be much there to encourage them to modify their behavior except for the prison rules that do not apply to the outside world. I suppose that one could say that the counseling was an effort, but that seemed to be more about feelings than behavior. Being surrounded by other inmates gave each one of them little time for self-reflection and opportunities for such in solitary were undermined by the seemingly arbitrary nature of how inmates landed there. If the inmates could acknowledge that they did something bad, then they might accept that they belonged in prison, but it seems that anger over treatment by the prison (as well as by other inmates) is a distraction. Piper sometimes seems like she could come close to this type of acknowledgement, but she keeps wavering. She is not much better than she was before imprisonment and one might argue that she has become worse. Sure, it might be her fault for not actually becoming a better person, but it also suggests that this prison is no good when it comes to rehabilitation or reforming. The prison is not teaching them the error of their ways just by treating them like cattle or grounded children.

[Juneaucat]

Ankai, that is so true.  The rehabilitation piece is so lacking.  And at that prison, which is similar to the real Danbury prison, the living conditions are so poor that that provides an additional distraction.  That whole thing in the first episode with "don't eat the pudding since they scrape the mold off it first" actually happened in real life.  That's not even remotely acceptable.  Those parts of the prison system are just unacceptable and need to change.

 

I guess my main complaint is that I wish Jenji was more even-handed with her depiction of things.  We're meant to really care about nearly all the inmates (and I do) and in so doing, we forget that they're criminals.  It reminds me of the Sopranos.  I loved Tony but he was the bad guy.  Every once in a while, Piper or someone will allude to the fact that they are criminals.  It's not like Jenji never does that.  I guess the whole Vee thing is what's bothering me too.  It seemed heavy handed that Vee is for villain.  We could easily hate her because she hurt people and meant to.  But the implication is that the others made mistakes out of necessity, which isn't true.  They often made their choices because they were the easier way out.  Not every transgender person has to steal credit cards to get the necessary surgery.  And not every abused woman has to defraud the government to escape.  They made those choices because the alternative was harder.  Part of my perspective is that I'm a professor at a community college where I see people every day who leave terrible life circumstances to come to school to improve their lives.  It's incredibly difficult but they do it.  They could sell drugs on the corner like their family members, but they choose not to.  They are choosing a path that's not instantly gratifying and will be harder before it's easier.  But ultimately, they can get out of a cycle that tears apart others (family, friends, etc.)

[Ankai]

Well, sure, there were a lot of characters who may have seemed to have the deck stacked against them or made one bad decision, but not all of them. Putting aside characters like Morello and Suzanne, there are at least a few characters who did not need to do what they did. We don't know how Rosa ended up with those guys or whose idea it was to rob a bank, but she most likely intended to kill that guy during the first robbery. Whatever her deal was, she did not need to rob that last bank on a whim. Cindy did not have to frequently abuse her position at the airport and she definitely did not need to steal that laptop just to impress her daughter or get back at her mother. Pennsatucky did not have to shoot that woman just for insulting her. Sister Ingalls did not have to deliberately try to get arrested for vandalism time and time again. The show may have sympathized or even empathized with them, but I did not see it giving them backstories that let them off the hook or softened their actions. In fact, a couple of them came off as worse to me.

[millennium]

There ought to be a spoiler warning somewhere ...

[Juneaucat]

Ankai, all good points.  Hopefully we'll see some progress in some of those characters like Piper has had.  Piper grates for sure but she has realized some things about herself, good and bad.  I don't think they're all going to come around (and it would be boring and saccharine if they did), but it would be nice to see moments like Morello had with Nicky when she realized she was doing crazy things.  It's a first step.

 

I just read millenium's post.  I was going off the original post in this thread that we're talking after watching them all.  But if we need to spoiler, mods, please say so.  

Edited June 11, 2014 by Juneaucat

[Ankai]

I don't think they're all going to come around (and it would be boring and saccharine if they did), but it would be nice to see moments like Morello had with Nicky when she realized she was doing crazy things.  

Perhaps, but I deliberately did not include Morello, since it seems to me that she has psychological issues that might prevent her from really understanding what she was doing.

 

As for the spoilers, I had figured that this thread was for the entirety of Season 2 and that the thread title itself was a spoiler warning.

[Cranberry]

I think the opening post makes it pretty clear that this thread is for discussion of the entire season, but I will add the spoiler prefix to the title for now just to cover our bases. It's totally fine for you to discuss all of the events of s2 in here without having to use spoiler tags.

[bravelittletoaster]

I liked this season as a good solid season of television, but I preferred season 1 and focusing on Piper's story.  I came for her, I stayed for her, the show was successful last year, I'm not really sure I get the logic of fucking with the recipe.  I think Season 3 is going to correct back a bit though with Prepon back as a regular, so I hope next season strikes more of season 1's balance.  I'm all for everyone getting their chance to shine, but Schilling and Prepon are the stars of the show that I want to watch.

[Brn2bwild]

Thought that both seasons were equally good in their own ways.

 

Season One:

- Introduced us to prison culture.

- We learned about the backstory of Sofia, Yoga Jones, Miss Claudette, Janae, Nicky, and Red, among others.  Miss Claudette's story was heartbreaking, while Pennsatucky's was both hilarious and terrifying.

- Alex and Piper, for those who liked their roller coaster.

- Piper's evolution into someone who is tougher than she ever imagined.

- Pornstache's reign of terror, including the death of Trisha.

- Tastee getting out, and then being so lost that she ended up back in prison.

- Suzanne's evolution from stereotype to an intelligent person with mental problems.

- Scared Straight.  Nuff said.

 

Season Two

- Got to learn more about Suzanne, Poussey, Tastee, Rosa, Gloria, Morello, and Black Cindy, among others.

- Had a more believable Big Bad than Pennsatucky.

- Managed to give weight to other characters' story arcs rather than have most of the action filter through Piper.

- Showed that the guards are not always monsters.

- Officially ended it with Piper and Larry.

- Showed that Piper could be interesting without Alex.

- Showed what a tragic effect a manipulative sociopath could have on people who desperately needed a mother figure.

- Made Red even more awesome. 

[bravelittletoaster]

I like that they delved into some backstories I wasn't expecting.  I figured we'd get more on fan favorites Taystee and Poussey, but wasn't expecting that we'd ever delve more into Rosa, and how important she'd turn out to be.  So I hope next year they continue to surprise us like that.  I would love a backstory on Norma.  

 

One weird thing is I swear I heard about a flashback story for Big Boo that never materialized.  So I'm wondering now if what I heard was actually a leaked season 3 spoiler...

 

ETA: Kind of surprised there wasn't more Sophia this season.  We had that great ep with her educating the ladies on their parts, but after that I don't recall a lot for her.  And she was kind of one of the breakouts from season 1 in terms of media attention.  I know Jenji has spoken in interviews several times [mostly in re: Laura's absence] that it doesn't matter as much when characters disappear when you're binge watching.  I will allow that it certainly matters less when I watch 13 eps in one week as opposed to over 13 weeks, but I did miss the people I liked who we saw less of, for certain, and clung to the scenes they did have in a way that was almost distracting for me as a viewer.

Edited June 11, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[hkit]

Now that I've had a few days to digest this, I really feel that I prefered Season 1 to Season 2. Both were riveting, edge of your seat, binge watching affairs. But the darker turn they took in Season 2 came at the expense of some of the things I really enjoyed in Season 1.

 

- Season 2 was so violent. Other than Ms. Claudette choking Fischer and the Piper/Penssatucky fight in Season 1, it was really not a violent show. The undertone of there could be violence at any time I felt was much more captivating than watching Red get the crap kicked out of her, not once, but twice. 

- With the Vee focus, we didn't see as many deep relationships/friendships forming. One of my favorite minor stories from Season 1 was the blossoming friendship between Sophia and Sister Jane. I am not sure they even had a scene together this season. Nobody in Red's crew seemed to bond anymore than they already had. It was just tension, tension, tension.

- Did we make it through 13 episodes without the Penguin/Eggplant/R******* joke? I was hoping that would be something that made an appearance, maybe revealing a little bit of the joke every season.

- I didn't have nearly as many LOL moments this season. Instead, I felt more like I was watching OZ.

 

Things I did love in Season 2:

- Who knew the Golden Girls were such bad asses? More, please!

- Rosa. LOVED HER!

- I really like that Gloria seems to have developed a bit of affection for Norma in the finale. I would love to see this carried over into Season 3!

[smrou]

I think on the whole I preferred season 1, but I really enjoyed season 2 also.  What gives season 1 the edge for me (and I haven't rewatched it, so it could just be fondness of memory) is that I thought the Vee storyline just kind of took over in season 2 more than I liked.  Having someone new come into the prison and shake up the tribes and allegiances and put people on edge and drive wedges...all of that's great and really interesting.  I just thought the particular way it was done with Vee was a)too quick (it seemed like Taystee was driven away from Poussey far too easily and Vee earned the 100% trust of Crazy-Eyes in practically a blink) and b)too unsubtle.  She was just so evil and so obviously so from her first introduction.  Granted, that did make the ending really satisfying, so I can't say it was all bad.  I wouldn't even say that storyline was mostly bad since I still really enjoyed the whole season, but I did find it to be just a little too much at times.

Edited June 11, 2014 by smrou

[Happy to be here]

The problem with Season 2s (And I have seen this with alot of other shows; very popular shows (Orphan Black,  House of Cards, The Americans Etc) people expect the exact same show they had in season 1 and when it changes even ever so slightly or it is not exactly as they remember it they revolt.    No show can remain static forever.  New characters need to be brought in, friendships need to be tested,  relationships need to begin and end.  It is the nature of television.  I like what Jenji Kohan said about the show and that Piper is a trojan horse brought in because she is a white girl who sleeps with other girls but she who is just a window to a larger world.  This show can theoretically go on years without her.    The only thing is we need to be able to allow Piper and the show to grow.  

Edited June 11, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[smrou]

people expect the exact same show they had in season 1 and when it changes even ever so slightly or it is not exactly as they remember it they revolt.

I can't say I've noticed much (or really any) revolting wrt season 2 of OitNB.  I've talked to a number of people IRL about it and people have in general been very positive.  Discussion in this forum seems mostly pretty positive, too, from what I can tell.  

 

I like what Jenji Kohan said about the show and that Piper is a trojan horse brought in because she is a white girl who sleeps with other girls but she who is just a window to a larger world.  This show can theoretically go on years without her.

I totally agree.  I like Piper--or at least I find her to be an interesting character and I like her interactions within the prison--but I think it's pretty clear from season 2 that she doesn't need to be the centerpiece of the show.  Which pretty much makes her as expendable as any other fairly major character.  

[bravelittletoaster]

I like what Jenji Kohan said about the show and that Piper is a trojan horse brought in because she is a white girl who sleeps with other girls but she who is just a window to a larger world.  This show can theoretically go on years without her.    The only thing is we need to be able to allow Piper and the show to grow.

 

I'm happy for Piper to grow.  I'm not happy for her to go away.  As a white girl who sleeps with other girls myself, I was floored last year to see a mainstream popular show with a queer lead.  I don't think that's ever happened before, and it was really meaningful to me as a gay viewer.  We're always the fucking sidekicks, never the star [unless it's a show intended for the gay ghetto like Queer as Folk or the L Word.]  The fact that everyone was watching this zeitgeist show and the lead character was queer felt huge to me.  So I bristled at suggestions that she was going to be sidelined.  Fortunately I wouldn't say that's completely the case.  I would say Piper's is still more or less the authoritative POV on this show, and her experience of the world still largely frames ours.  

 

But I often wished she had more screentime.  I know Jenji loves trotting out that Trojan horse metaphor, but I think it's actually kind of an imperfect one since sacking a city isn't a very good metaphor for building a tv show you want people to continue watching week after week.  It's not just about getting me in the door, Jenji, it's about keeping me in there.  I tend to think if it ain't broke don't fix it.  That being said, it was a fine season.  I still love it, I still recommend it to all my friends, I'll just love it more next year when Vause is on full time and will drive Piper's story more front and center again.

Edited June 11, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Drapers4thWife]

As much as I enjoyed season 2, it gave me the sinking feeling that the writers don't know how to follow through. I think there's a lot of potential in my favorites from S1 like Sophia, Daya, Lorna - and yet in season there was no follow through on further character development. We got new characters (either wholly new or promoted from bit players like Rosa) but when it came to the old ones many of them either disappeared (Sophia) or it was just a rehash of their season one conflicts (Daya being hot and cold about Bennett). As the season went along, I got the sinking feeling that the writers create each character with one good hook and then don't know how to move beyond that. Like, "Sophia is guilty over her son - yay, covered it! Next!" I think Morrello is going to be almost non-existent next season because now that she had her episode, I don't think they'll know what to do with her. I think Taystee and Poussey will be back-burned too, because the series just rushed to hit the reset button on their relationship there at the end. 

 

This was already a large show with a huge amount of characters in the first season, then in the second season so much time was spent on new characters that IMO brought little to the table. I liked the conflict Vee brought but she was waaay too prominent and it went on way too long. Soso was just a rehash of Piper's culture shock but ten times more annoying. The show just became ungainly, especially because they refuse to cut the characters that are useless now, like Larry and Alex. I'm not involved in Alex/Piper at all and find them tiresome, and am not looking forward to more of their "Alex is manipulative, wishy-washy Piper falls it but won't commit" dance. 

[DangerousMinds]

I do think what Piper did to Alex at the end was truly heinous and selfish. Calling her PO and reporting her plans to possibly leave the country? The woman may be in a lot of real danger. Sure, being back in prison may be safer for her, but it may be more dangerous. And she is FREE now, not locked up! Just because Piper is lonely, she felt THAT was an appropriate move? If Piper really felt she was madly in love with Alex and ready to commit to her (or just continue the relationship), she only has 8 months or so left on her sentence, right? 

[bravelittletoaster]

Well, Alex was in a pretty damned if you do, damned if you don't situation anyhow.  Not that what Piper did wasn't for selfish reasons, but Alex was kind of out of options.  It was pretty clear that staying where she was was going to get her killed, and fleeing her parole is a felony.  What's she going to do, live the rest of her life on the lam?  It's 2014 and she doesn't have Nazi gold to fall back on.  It's not that easy to just disappear.  So the way she was backed into a corner, that pretty much had to happen.

 

I don't get the feeling Lorna's going to be backgrounded at all next year.  She's pretty closely tied to Nicky, and I think Natasha Lyonne is a castmember they value.  Assuming no one else picks up the pilot NBC rejected, I think she'll be a big part of season 3 and Lorna with her.  I was surprised they didn't use Sophia more this season, but I expect her to rebound. Laverne was just on the cover of Time, after all.

[Happy to be here]

Its a big cast. There was no way every character was going to get the same amount of screen time.   I think the follow through for season 2 was fine.  Actually there was very little about season 2 I would change.  Maybe a few little nitpicks here and there but I honestly thought the season was near perfect.   Yes there were a few characters, like Sophia I would have used more but there was a story that the writers wanted to tell and there was no believable way to incorporate her into the tribe war storyline.    I can see her being a bigger part of season 3 now that her issues with her son have at least begun to be dealt with.

 

What made season 2 so fascinating though was in fact the minor characters got storylines some big some small.  I enjoyed the Miss Rosa plot which turned into a major plot as well as a background story involving the hispanic girl who gave birth last season and the her boyfriend who didn't talk until the last episode.  I thought that was clever.  I liked Soso and I loved to hate Vee.  So yeah I really enjoyed season 2.  

Edited June 12, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[kieyra]

I liked the second half of the season better than the first. The finale kept me riveted and felt earned. I also liked the fact that almost everyone had some part to play in Vee's downfall. From the voodoo, to Red trying to do the right thing, to Healey falsifying paperwork, to her gang finally wising up, and finally the payoff for the foundation they laid with Rosa all season.

Regarding criminals, portrayal of: first of all, this is a minimum security prison, so we've been told all along that these prisoners are not hardened criminal types. Secondly, I find it believable that many women are in there due to the men in their lives (and/or drugs). And finally, I feel like the show is continuing to try to show us that they all ARE flawed. We've seen some sympathetic back stories, but we've also seen Cindy, the shady TSA officer who just seemed to be a piece of crap person in general. We were also shown that the nun was in it for the ego boost, at least partially. And we've seen a lot of regrets and a lot of bad choices. Showing us that the system is broken, and that these are people with good and bad in them, is not (to me) sending the message that crime is okay, or trying to turn them into Dexter-like anti heroes or anything.

Edited June 12, 2014 by kieyra

[heckkitty]

I need to rematch Season 1 because it's been a while, but I'm leaning toward liking Season 2 better. Both have their strengths, though.  I thought season 1 was great at showing what life is like for the prisoners (on TV anyway, who knows how accurate it is really), and introduced us to some great characters.  The story in Season 2 was really strong though, and I loved seeing more of some of my other favorite characters (especially Poussey).  Season 2 needed more Nicky though, and I wasn't thrilled with how the Vee story played out.  I thought we'd learn something more about how she turned bad, and I thought she'd end up being a more complex character, when in fact she was just a sociopath.

[DangerousMinds]

Well, Alex was in a pretty damned if you do, damned if you don't situation anyhow.  Not that what Piper did wasn't for selfish reasons, but Alex was kind of out of options.  It was pretty clear that staying where she was was going to get her killed, and fleeing her parole is a felony.  What's she going to do, live the rest of her life on the lam?  It's 2014 and she doesn't have Nazi gold to fall back on.  It's not that easy to just disappear.  So the way she was backed into a corner, that pretty much had to happen.

But it should have been Alex's decision to flee or not. To put someone back in prison is just out of bounds, IMHO.

[SourK]

Jumped over here from the 13th episode thread; just finished watching the season.

 

I really liked Vee as a character -- I think it's one of the most realistic depictions of a sociopath that I've seen on TV, and Lorraine Toussaint has so much presence and commitment as an actor that I couldn't look away from her when she was on screen. It really worked, since Vee was supposed to have a magnetic, superficial charm that drew people close to her, even when their instincts should be telling them to run. I liked most of the A-story in general, even though I think Vee and her attempts to form a gang maybe belong on a different (and better) show.

 

I've never been a big fan of the flashbacks, and I wasn't thrilled to have so many of them this time. Cindy's seemed like the most realistic to me, but I found most of them pretty heavy-handed.

 

Also, I feel like the only person on the internet who thinks Kate Mulgrew is not doing a very good accent. Am I the only person who thinks that?

[bravelittletoaster]

I mean, I don't know any off-the-boat Russian Americans who've been here for approximately 30 years, so I have no idea really.  But it sounds like the Russian accented English I've always heard in films and tv so it sounds ok to me?

 

ETA: Actually now that I think about it my highschool math teacher was a Ukrainian woman who'd been here about as long and I'd say they were in the same ballpark?  Only with Red's accent maybe sounding a bit more working class to my ears, which works with her station and the fact that she settled in Queens.

 

ETA2: Couldn't comment on this in the episode thread it appeared in [11] because that would be spoilery, but got a chuckle out of this:

I'm pretty sure Piper will stay at Litchfield and I also think she and the journalist are endgame.

Considering what happens in the finale.  I couldn't tell if the poster was kidding or not, though.

Edited June 13, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Helena Dax]

I wasn't kidding. I can't see Alex and Piper together after prison. Their relationship is hot, but toxic, destructive. And I think after this experience Piper will be looking for someone more interesting than Larry and less dangerous than Alex. Someone new. And this isn't the kind of show where everybody's good looking; the journalist didn't have to be cute. 

 

Anyway, I loved this season. This show's amazing and the characters are really great. And sometimes it's just the little moments, like that subplot with the quiet dad and the baby, so touching. The moment when Tucky hugs Healy. Toy Story: Morello's version. Pornstache's declaration of love. The mysteries of the vagina. Wonderful.

 

My favourite characters this season were Poussey, Brook and Pennsatucky. I loved Rosa too, especially her scenes with that kid (theft included) and her escape. 

Edited June 13, 2014 by Helena Dax

[bravelittletoaster]

I wasn't kidding. I can't see Alex and Piper together after prison. Their relationship is hot, but toxic, destructive. And I think after this experience Piper will be looking for someone more interesting than Larry and less dangerous than Alex. Someone new. And this isn't the kind of show where everybody's good looking; the journalist didn't have to be cute.

Well, be that as it may, I don't think the bit player reporter guy is endgame, let alone anyone we'll ever see again?

 

As much as I love Piper and Alex's toxic intense crap, I'll be pretty happy if at the end of the series Piper just chooses Piper and learns to be independent, since clearly that's something with which she has issues.

 

I'm about halfway through a re-watch of the season, and I'm realizing/noticing now that Fischer's surveillance plotline basically just gets dropped.  It seemed like they had plans for it to go somewhere, but I'm guessing she got cast on the other show while they were still writing scripts, so when she left they just shelved it.  I'm wondering if they'll rework it next year somehow, though.

Edited June 13, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Corgi-ears]

While a lot happened this season, its overall roadmap (WORDPLAY!) seems to be to introduce a new villain who stirs shit up, only to be dispensed with in the season's closing moments, thereby returning things somewhat to status quo. (Dispensed with too neatly, and to me somewhat unbelievably -- if you just escaped from prison via a tunnel, would you stand idly by the side of the road as a van that you surely recognized as one of the prison's comes barreling down the road? Hmm.) I think this allows the show to essentially be reset for Season 3. Sure, I imagine that the show might show Suzanne bearing the scars of this season, but I suspect that by and large it will be status quo.

 

This bothers me a little: it feels a little like the show was treading water because its main conflict -- Piper and Alex -- had to be put on the back burner because of Laura Prepon. (Perhaps my interpretation is colored by knowing about Prepon, etc.) I guess the flashback-to-one-character's-past-per-episode structure that OITNB has adopted since day one should have made it clear to me that the show, in some ways, models itself after Lost. But this season may very well end up being the equivalent of the Tailies season of Lost. 

Edited June 14, 2014 by Corgi-ears

[Totale]

I'm about halfway through a re-watch of the season, and I'm realizing/noticing now that Fischer's surveillance plotline basically just gets dropped.  It seemed like they had plans for it to go somewhere, but I'm guessing she got cast on the other show while they were still writing scripts, so when she left they just shelved it.  I'm wondering if they'll rework it next year somehow, though.

 

I thought about that, too.  It wouldn't surprise me if the admins were supposed to find out about Piper talking to the reporter due to the telephone surveillance, but when they decided to cut that branch back they just dropped it and went with Fig running into the reporter in the visiting area.

[bravelittletoaster]

I thought about that, too.  It wouldn't surprise me if the admins were supposed to find out about Piper talking to the reporter due to the telephone surveillance, but when they decided to cut that branch back they just dropped it and went with Fig running into the reporter in the visiting area.

Ah, yes.  Good point.  It seemed pretty clear the set up was intended for something to be revealed in a phone call.  Now looking back on it, Caputo catching Piper in Fig's office is a pretty efficient way of getting from point A to point B without the Fischer storyline, which must have been the intention.  It still feels a bit dangly, but I guess what can you do when an actor has to leave?  Jenji did speak to this recently, and was fairly frank about how it irritates her and she takes it personally when actors make other plans [while allowing that that's not exactly fair and can't be helped, just how she feels.]  At the time I thought maybe she was talking about Laura, but now having watched the season I'm more inclined to think it was about Lapkus or Schreiber.  

[kieyra]

Ah, yes.  Good point.  It seemed pretty clear the set up was intended for something to be revealed in a phone call.  Now looking back on it, Caputo catching Piper in Fig's office is a pretty efficient way of getting from point A to point B without the Fischer storyline, which must have been the intention.  It still feels a bit dangly, but I guess what can you do when an actor has to leave?  Jenji did speak to this recently, and was fairly frank about how it irritates her and she takes it personally when actors make other plans [while allowing that that's not exactly fair and can't be helped, just how she feels.]  At the time I thought maybe she was talking about Laura, but now having watched the season I'm more inclined to think it was about Lapkus or Schreiber.

What show did Lapkus leave for? Google and imdb aren't helping.

[Olive]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2361094/

 

It looks terrible, kierya.

[Pixel]

Also, I feel like the only person on the internet who thinks Kate Mulgrew is not doing a very good accent. Am I the only person who thinks that?

I have Russian friends who tell me it's terrible. They are, in fact, bitching about it all over my Facebook. Edited June 15, 2014 by Pixel

[MaiSoCalled]

One thing I really appreciate is in season one Piper's big conflict was Pennsatucky. Throughout the season, we saw it get bad between the two and I, for one, was truly fearing for Piper. After the first episode of season two, I never feared for Piper's life. There was a lot of prison conflict, but it was focused on other characters. I generally like the character of Piper, but I am so happy that each season is not going to be another prisoner out to get her. Spreading the threats out allowed for new dynamics, and Vee was a captivating villain, 

[questionfear]

Reds accent was generically Eastern European enough that it didn't bother me. My grandmother is polish, and her accent is polish tinged with a life of speaking Yiddish, and Reds accent sounded fine to me, in that every time she talked I vaguely was reminded of my grandmother.

[April Bloodgate]

Although I wasn't necessarily crazy about the Vee story line, I definitely liked the 2nd season better. I think the ensemble cast is the show's greatest strength, so focusing on people other than Piper (and Alex) is a good move, IMO. While I don't dislike Alex or Piper, I definitely didn't miss them either. I think there are a lot of interesting stories to tell, and the Piper/Alex will-they-won't-they was getting a little stale. And as far as following queer characters is concerned, as a fellow queer white woman, I'm happy to see Nicky, Poussey, and, to some extent, Boo be featured. That's another thing that's great about OITNB; there are at least 6 LGBT characters featured regularly on this mainstream show.

[bravelittletoaster]

Personally I'd still trade a handful of side characters to have that lead, though, in terms of representation. That's the thing no show has ever given me before, and for which I'll always be grateful.

But hey, I don't have to choose, because Orange has given me both. It's great to have the variety, too. Frankly I'd be fairly pissed to be represented only by Boo, but the queer characters are so well represented it's not an issue.

[Madding crowd]

I have to say I liked Season 1 a little bit better, but also enjoyed season two. I felt that the story lines in season 1 were fleshed out to be part of an overall picture, where season 2 had lots of little gotcha moments that seemed cheap at times (Porn stache returning only so he could be led out pledging his love to Daya, Rosa's driving away to Don't fear the reaper and hitting Vee, etc).

I didn't mind less of Piper but I still like her as the sort of central force of the show, because that is how the story was written and presented. If she left, it would be just another prison drama and I like that it keeps coming around to her point of view. Looking forward to where this goes in season 3.