20/20 - General Discussion

[Maharincess]

If she wanted to be called Kate, she would be called Kate publicly by everyone. "Kate" is not a nickname for someone who likes to be called Katie, while "Katie" can be a cutesy name for someone named Kate. People add an "ie" to my name when they want to be familiar. I call Tom being passive-aggressive and dominating on the "Kate" thing. And creepy.

I Googled Leah's name because I had forgotten the name of her tv show. Up came a full page of photos of her in some very provocative Playboy-esque poses, topless, suggestive. Wow, who knew? Apparently, the Scientology guys did.

Thank you! I've never heard of Kate being a nickname for Katie, its usually the other way around.

I'm sticking with Creepy and controlling.

It sounds to me like she had to get away.

So Katie and her dad knew Tom was so bad that she had to have a prenup that filled 5 boxes but she married him anyway? I don't understand that. If she was already seeing red flags, why marry the guy?

Edited November 2, 2015 by Maharincess

[Zahdii]

There's been nasty rumors from the start regarding Suri's paternity.  I've read speculation that it's l. Ron's (from stored sperm), Tommy Davis', Tom Cruise's cousin's, or Katie's prior fiancé Chris Klein.  I think the rumors started because Katie got pregnant almost immediately after meeting Tom, and there's the public's belief that Tom is sterile, because he and Nicole adopted their two children.  The sterility rumor is proven wrong because Nicole miscarried shortly after Tom dumped her.  Because he attempted to claim he wasn't the father, a DNA test was performed on the products of conception.  Tom was proven to be the father, and this all came out in their divorce proceeding.

 

I've never heard that Tom Cruise disputed being the father of Suri.  One scandle mag made that accusation, and Tom promptly disputed the story.

 

As for his fertility, he and both his first two wives went through fertility treatments to have children, and although neither marriage produced offspring, both ex wives had children with their next husbands.  It's easy to see how people would suspect that Tom had fertility issues.  Katie Holmes getting pregnant within weeks of starting to date him seems to have been a surprise for everyone. 

 

Tom is desperate to put the infertility and homosexuality rumors behind him, so I doubt that he would contest Suri's parentage.  I think it would be more likely for Katie to try to get Tom's name off of the birth certificate, but she hasn't tried to do that, so I think that Tom could prove he's Suris father.

 

That being said, I wouldn't date Tom Cruise if he were the last available man on earth, and the future of mankind depended on it.  He creeps me out, and the more I hear about him, the more I wish he'd join a monastery and remove himself from the rest of humanity.  (I reserve death wishes for people who do much more than creep me out).

Edited November 2, 2015 by Zahdii

[Wavy]

I don't think Kirstie Alley was famous when she joined Scientology.  She claims they helped her kick drugs.

I wonder why somebody like Greta Van Susteren  and her husband are Scientologists?

[NewDigs]

Bolding mine

Thank you! I've never heard of Kate being a nickname for Katie, its usually the other way around.

I'm sticking with Creepy and controlling.

It sounds to me like she had to get away.

So Katie and her dad knew Tom was so bad that she had to have a prenup that filled 5 boxesbut she married him anyway? I don't understand that. If she was already seeing red flags, why marry the guy?

iirc, a younger Katie was huge TC fan to the extent that she was rumored to have had a poster of him over her at-home-with-mom-and-dad bed.

She seems, to me, to be a blank.

Her dad is the hero.

[bref]

He's always creeped me out too, especially since I saw Sarah Bunting on TWoP point out how his front tooth is creepily IN THE CENTER OF HIS MOUTH. Once seen, it cannot be unseen.

 

[Tallulahbaby]

Issac Hayes, Doug E.Fresh AND Haywood Nelson are Scienctologists???

[lovinbob]

If any of you haven't already you should check out the HBO Documentary Going Clear.

 

Having read this and the Janet Reitman book pretty much took the teeth out of Leah's interview. Taking on Tom Cruise personally is totally impressive, so good on her, but the interview fawned over her unnecessarily, IMO.

Here's an excerpt of Leah's book from New York Daily News, per the gossip site Celebitchy.

 

 

http://www.celebitchy.com/454687/leah_remini_claims_katie_holmes_tom_cruise_neglected_suri_as_a_baby/#comment-14803324

With that said, this is CRAZY! I want to read the book.

 

Edited to say that I just read an excerpt where she talks about Nicole Kidman's relationship with her kids. That sucks. Tom can be considered a villain; Nicole and her kids feel like collateral damage here. I don't think that's going to win Leah many friends.

Edited November 2, 2015 by lovinbob

[Maharincess]

I can't wait for her book. I already ordered it and I check my Kindle every day hoping it was downloaded early. It'll probably show up on the Kindle Monday at midnight.

I never knew Leah was a scientologist until I watched her wedding and birth shows on VH1 years ago. During her delivery it was totally silent. Nobody, not the Drs, nurses, Leah or her husband said anything during the entire delivery. Thinking that was really weird, I researched and found out its a scientology thing called silent birth.

Wings had an interesting point about Cruise, Travolta and Kirsty Alley all joining as adults. I had never thought of it that way. They didn't go through the same things as Leah and her sisters. I wonder if Kirsty's kids are involved.

I said this on Leah's Facebook today, I don't know if I could have forgiven my mom if she had gotten me involved in something like that as a child. Her mom is lucky, I don't know if I could forgive her. If I were Leah I'd be thinking that I loved my daughter enough to get her out when she was young...why didn't you?

Do what you want but leave innocent kids out of it.

Just my opinion.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Maharincess

[ShellSeeker]

Hey guys, 

 

The unbelievable weirdness of Scientology really is endlessly fascinating, but let's stay more on topic with episodes of 20/20. I've created a thread for those who want to continue the Leah Remini/Scientology discussion -- feel free to continue the discussion there.

 

Thanks!

[RedheadZombie]

Her kids with Cruise are still pretty devout to the church and the fact that you haven't seen a picture with Nicole with Bella and/or Connor says volumes. The closest you will hear about what happened with Katie and Tom is finding articles on said deposition that was mentioned above.

When Tom and Nicole first divorced, there were plenty of pictures of Nicole with the kids. As explained in Going Clear, one of the big wigs (Marty Rathbun?) met daily with the kids. His goal was to alienate the children from her. He told them she was evil and a suppressive person. Over time, Nicole had to respect her children's refusal to see her. She supposedly has a decent relationship with Bella at this time.

I've never heard that Tom Cruise disputed being the father of Suri. One scandle mag made that accusation, and Tom promptly disputed the story.

As for his fertility, he and both his first two wives went through fertility treatments to have children, and although neither marriage produced offspring, both ex wives had children with their next husbands. It's easy to see how people would suspect that Tom had fertility issues. Katie Holmes getting pregnant within weeks of starting to date him seems to have been a surprise for everyone.

Tom is desperate to put the infertility and homosexuality rumors behind him, so I doubt that he would contest Suri's parentage. I think it would be more likely for Katie to try to get Tom's name off of the birth certificate, but she hasn't tried to do that, so I think that Tom is Suri's father.

That being said, I wouldn't date Tom Cruise if he were the last available man on earth, and the future of mankind depended on it. He creeps me out, and the more I hear about him, the more I wish he'd joing a monestary and remove himself from the rest of humanity. (I reserve death wishes for people who do much more than creep me out).

The paternity Tom disputed was Nicole's miscarriage after he shocked her by dumping her right after a big ten year anniversary celebration. He was proven to be the father. He's never denied Suri, but plenty of people like to speculate.

ETA: sorry just saw mod note.

Edited November 2, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[ShellSeeker]

 

A dedicated thread for discussing the episode with Leah Remini and Scientology.

 

[Readalot]

Is this the article, Readalot?

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/inside-scientology-20110208

probably thanks for looking. I get the message that the article is unavailable. It is truly a fascinating read. I fear for the authors safety.

[Kromm]

 

Discuss at the risk of incurring the wrath of Xenu

This title actually doesn't track if you read up on the Sci-Heads. People always seem to think they worship Xenu. They don't. He's the equivalent to their "Satan". I won't say he's their single great enemy figure, because their dumbassery includes stories about tons of different alien races enslaving our primitive cavemen ancestors (which Elron Hubbard stupidly sometimes described as existing "billions of years ago"), but Xenu is simply one of the bigger boogeymen in Hubbard's rambling self-contradictory tales. 

 

I guess my point is that if you piss off the Scientologists like Leah has, it's not Xenu who's going to come after you, it's their lawyers and their "Office of Special Affairs" people who run headgames, harassment, and legal runarounds around people. And even that doesn't happen much anymore, because they got outted too often for doing that.  These days mainly what the SciHeads do is ignore the bad press, clean up on their huge real estate profits that exist no matter how many people leave them, and plot their future with being as rich as possible through those means rather than purely having the most worshipers. Since the money was all they ever really cared about anyway, the bleeding off of members is a massive inconvenience, but hardly a killing blow.  At some point I imagine the remaining members will become more like a (small) legion of paid hired hands, and the whole "Church" will simply be the literal tax shelter/real estate scheme it's been headed towards for years.

(Just to be clear, I mean that as opposed to the initial base of their fortune, which was bilking money out of people with their shitty courses--which is what goes down the toilet now with so many people leaving and less joining. The new joins often are in underdeveloped countries apparently, which is in line with needing bodies now to run the place rather than them making money off members anymore...)

[Kromm]

I thought it odd that Leah saying, get a room, drew harsh criticism.  It is a common phrase, she is a comic.  That was more chilling to me than other anecdotes.  If Tom, Travolta or Kirsty had said that, nothing would have been said.  They were out to get Leah, that is clear. 

 

There have been enough books written exposing the underbelly to alert authorities that something is terribly wrong.  However, it is a religion, a huge one, wealthy and powerful.  No one is going to touch that.  

 

Katie's half apology said a lot between the lines.  She is cowed and will never talk about Scientology.  Tom is no doubt paying handsome child support and she would not want to rock the boat for that and who knows how much else. 

i have yet to see this episode (I plan to) but I've heard and read other ones Remini has done. What I've yet to see from her (and hope is in this) is an apology for the shabby way SHE treated people who questioned Scientology when she was inside. There's this one incident I recall when she went on the Howard Stern show years ago, for example, where she just screamed and yelled and badmouthed people who opposed Scientology. It was far from the only time she did that, as I recall. She was a viscous attack dog on their behalf at one point. Admittedly I've seen claims from many ex-members that as Scientology got on the ropes presswise they started leaning heavily on their celebs and spokesmen to do stuff like this--claiming it as a duty as a good Scientologist I mean--saying they had the right and responsibility to lie outright and victimize their enemies. But at some point, if she hasn't already done so, I expect to see Remini apologize for how enthusiastic she was for being one of their "hitmen" of this type.

Issac Hayes, Doug E.Fresh AND Haywood Nelson are Scienctologists???

Issac Hayes left South Park specifically because of that. I won't go into the details, but they're written up plenty of places.

[Wings]

So Katie and her dad knew Tom was so bad that she had to have a prenup that filled 5 boxes but she married him anyway? I don't understand that. If she was already seeing red flags, why marry the guy?

  

Her father was opposed to her marriage to Tom so I suspect he wrote the prenup, protecting his daughter.  Katie was probably very much into marrying Tom, at the time, not knowing what was in store.  Her father clearly did. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by wings707

[pennben]

I'm assuming Tom and the "church" had a massive prenup waiting for Katie to sign sight unseen (prior to the moment she was to sign) and unquestioning, just like for everyone else that comes into his life.  Katie is lucky her father is a divorce attorney so he didn't allow that to happen and actually negotiated, in what seems to be a rather successful manner, what was shoved in front of Katie.

[Wings]

Here is more on her exit. 

 

http://gawker.com/5924985/katie-holmes-used-a-disposable-cell-phone-to-escape-from-tom-cruise

 

They speak of her arranging things but I think we all get it that her father was the muscle. 

[lovinbob]

I really hope we will someday get the scoop on Katie's side of the story. I hope I outlive them all so that when the secret records are released (following the death of Tom, Katie, Miscavige and Xenu), I get to read all about it!

[vmcd88]

Boy this really is some Jim Jones style cult.  Just scary.

[ari333]

I like Leah. Im glad she's out. Whatever made her make the change, good for her. IDK the story yet about why exactly she chose to leave. But good. I like Kirstie Alley too and never really considered her religion . I don't normally consider religion when I am a fan of an actor, but wow...

[Wings]

I have been reading a lot this morning because I am obsessed.  There are many defectors who are very vocal and subsequently harassed by COS, but persist.  And that has been going on for years.  It is not likely that anything will every be done.  But there is a possibility it will crumble in time.  The Catholic church is beginning to show cracks and is predicted to crumble/dissipate close to the end of this century. Everything will be new again.   I will now show myself out and find something else to obsesses about.  This has been fun! .  

Edited November 2, 2015 by wings707

[Readalot]

About 8 years ago my good friend got sucked into the CofS. It started with her working at one of their elementary schools a few years earlier. Then she went to a presentation made by Leah "just for information". I warned her to not even go. But she did. Next thing I know she is going to their school headquarters in the mid-west for a possible job. Then I heard through mutual friends she set her 12 year old son to one of the CofS camps. She cut us all off. But one day a friend ran I to her. He said she was a skeleton and looked unhealthy. She told him she was in town for a few days but she had moved to work at the school headquarters. And he said she said in so many words she was either a Scientologist or was close to becoming one. He said he was blown away. We both thought of her as a strong, smart woman and with lots of common sense. I always wondered what happened to her and her son.

[psychoticstate]

So Katie and her dad knew Tom was so bad that she had to have a prenup that filled 5 boxes but she married him anyway? I don't understand that. If she was already seeing red flags, why marry the guy?

 

Red flags matter very little when you're talking of a contractual, business like relationship.  Or relationsham, as the case may be.  I will never believe these two legitimately fell in love and got married.  Tom needed some positive, family-man type publicity after the Kidman divorce and fall out (and the split with Penelope Cruz) and Katie needed publicity.  It could have been a win-win for them both but Tom went off the rails and their PR person was on permanent vacation.  Everything was so over the top and excessive that it caused doubts rather than sealed the Love Story of the Century.

 

 

 

Tom is desperate to put the infertility and homosexuality rumors behind him, so I doubt that he would contest Suri's parentage.  I think it would be more likely for Katie to try to get Tom's name off of the birth certificate, but she hasn't tried to do that, so I think that Tom is Suri's father.

 

 

 

Even if Katie were to produce a DNA test that could say conclusively without reservation that there is no way on this earth that Tom is Suri's bio father, legally he will remain her father.  I don't know if this is still true but California used to have a 2 year statute.  If you were going to dispute paternity, you had the first two years of the child's life.  After that, it was a done deal. 

 

FWIW, I'm not sure Cruise is Suri's bio father.  He went to such extremes to get custody of his children with Kidman.  How could he let Katie take Suri?  Sure, she probably knows where a few bodies are buried but I have no doubt she signed a confidentiality agreement as part of her contract so it's not like she can blab on him.  Suri's custody may well have been decided when the terms of their arrangement were being hammered out.

 

I also believe that Katie didn't escape the way the media laid it out.  I think she left their arrangement ahead of schedule and did catch Tom by surprise in that regard but I think they were always going to split. 

 

Regardless, Katie's father getting her "divorced" (because I'm not even sure they were legally married) in 11 days is quite a feat for someone who allegedly "escaped."   Again, more likely the official split had been planned months in advance and everything had already been agreed upon.  And if they weren't actually legally married, much easier to finalize.  JMO.

[NewDigs]

I've wondered about the relatively easy split and about Suri's custody, and paternity, too.

Part of me believes some of this had to have been hammered out well in advance.

He quite unceremoniously dumped Nicole right before his income became community property per CA law.

Tom and Katie were either at or approaching that 10 year mark themselves.

Edited November 2, 2015 by NewDigs

[Wings]

Here I go!  I am in again.  LOL.  You both make sense.  We have not been told any truth. we have probably been told a story with a grain of what transpired. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by wings707

[psychoticstate]

With the easiest of divorces here in California where there are no children and no disputes, you cannot get it accomplished in 11 days.   I realize NY is different but I don't know of ANYONE who has divorced in 11 days, regardless of who your father is.  And while I'm not going to dispute that Martin Holmes is a good attorney, he doesn't have THAT much power.  So clearly (at least IMO) the ball had started rolling earlier than believed or Tom and Katie were never legally married.  For the record, a Scientology wedding in Italy is NOT recognized here in the States.

 

I think Tom and Katie signed a 5 year contract; they married in 2007 and were divorced in 2012.   Not only that, despite living primarily in Cali, Katie filed for divorce in NY.  Why?  I think because NY law requires that all divorce documents remain sealed. So no way to look at the docs and see what the settlement entailed or even if they were legally married.  Interestingly, Katie filed on June 29 and a settlement was reached by both parties on July 9 - - how could an agreement and settlement be reached so quickly when Katie allegedly fled the marriage? 

 

So many questions.

[NewDigs]

I think that wings707 is correct in predicting the decline and fall of Scientology.

Their membership is in serious decline and in order to support the hubris of Miscavige that membership needs wealth. They have huge ugly almost empty buildings all over the world.

I might have the numbers wrong but I think that LWright reported barely 50,000 members worldwide. I recently saw a number for the US of 25,000. I do remember it being stated in Going Clear that there are more Rastafarians than scienos.

At least if/when the Catholic church is dismantled there will be beautiful artworks and structures.

The Co$ will offer tin cans and prisons.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Her father was opposed to her marriage to Tom so I suspect he wrote the prenup, protecting his daughter.  Katie was probably very much into marrying Tom, at the time, not knowing what was in store.  Her father clearly did.

I think Katie had leverage that Nicole did not- she got pregnant (and delivered) before the wedding. I think that gave her some leverage in prenup talks (or at least gave leverage to her dad in those talks.) I do think that Suri is Tom's daughter. While she clearly favors Katie, Suri was a gorgeous baby & is a beautiful child. No way were L.Ron's or David Miscavige's DNA involved in that beautiful girl.

  

 

FWIW, I'm not sure Cruise is Suri's bio father.  He went to such extremes to get custody of his children with Kidman.  How could he let Katie take Suri?  Sure, she probably knows where a few bodies are buried but I have no doubt she signed a confidentiality agreement as part of her contract so it's not like she can blab on him.

But he's not the bio father of his children with Nicole Kidman either. Isabella and Connor were both adopted.

I thought Katie's statement was actually pretty strong, especially given that she probably has an extremely tight non-disclosure agreement with Tom. Perhaps it's just because I have no doubt she has some sort of legally binding contract not to say anything about CoS or Tom, but I thought she said the most she could say & that people who know her position knew she was taking a risk even by saying that. I hope Tom Cruise feels pressured to make some kind of one-liner apology to Leah just to try to save face. My guess is Tom doesn't see Suri isn't so much because Katie got it worked out that way, but because Scientology has probably labeled the poor child a "suppressive person" who scientologists shouldn't be around.

Although Nicole has said more about her life with and break up with Tom, she still hasn't said A LOT. I bet she has a non-disclosure agreement as well. I also think she is probably holding out hope that if she doesn't disparage Tom and CoS, Isabella and Connor may eventually mend their relationship with her. The way she was eventually forced out of those children's lives had to be horrific; my guess is Katie witnessed it happening and wanted to make sure it didn't happen to her with Suri.

Nicole and Katie are both younger than Tom. I'm holding out hope that both will outlive Jim and when he dies that their no -disclosure agreements with him will become void and they will both write epic tell-alls. Actually I hope they've already written them and they're just waiting to be published upon Tom's death.

I teach students in their late teens/young adults and one of the craziest things I realized (while we were discussing cults & Scientology came up), is that there's now an entire generation of young adults who don't remember Tom Cruise prior to his jumping on Oprah's couch, yelling at Matt Laurer, etc. They don't remember the cute nice-guy Tom Cruise leading man who seemed to adore his wife Nicole, called CNN to talk about how dangerous the paparazzi were in Parish when Princess Di was in the crash (that she later that night died from), and was seen as kind of the All-American, hot, sweet, guy next door actor. They only know crazy Super-Scientology Tom. What a way to mangle one's own legacy.

I have to add that a Kidman fan, I LOVED that Katie blindsided Tom with the divorce filing and managed to essentially keep his child from him (even thought I believe it's CoS keeping him from her because she Katie have probably been declared SPs).

Exactly what he did to Nicole happened to him. Perfect.

[NewDigs]

With the easiest of divorces here in California where there are no children and no disputes, you cannot get it accomplished in 11 days.   I realize NY is different but I don't know of ANYONE who has divorced in 11 days, regardless of who your father is.  And while I'm not going to dispute that Martin Holmes is a good attorney, he doesn't have THAT much power.  So clearly (at least IMO) the ball had started rolling earlier than believed or Tom and Katie were never legally married.  For the record, a Scientology wedding in Italy is NOT recognized here in the States.

 

I think Tom and Katie signed a 5 year contract; they married in 2007 and were divorced in 2012.   Not only that, despite living primarily in Cali, Katie filed for divorce in NY.  Why?  I think because NY law requires that all divorce documents remain sealed. So no way to look at the docs and see what the settlement entailed or even if they were legally married.  Interestingly, Katie filed on June 29 and a settlement was reached by both parties on July 9 - - how could an agreement and settlement be reached so quickly when Katie allegedly fled the marriage? 

 

So many questions.

Makes me wonder if TommyBoy isn't the one planting the stories about all of Katie's subterfuge.

Also wonder if his sister is still his publicist. I don't think she's smart enough to plant stories or wrangle Tom.

[Missy Vixen]

I think that Katie had dirtier dirt than Scientology on Tom Cruise and this is why she was granted a) custody of her daughter and b) a speedy divorce. Even a five-banker-box sized prenuptial agreement would not stop the Scientologists; she had (or has) something that scared them so badly they've basically left her alone while tormenting others that have left the church.

 

Her carefully planned exit and the fact she managed to accomplish what she did with a burner phone and her dad -- I'm also hoping for a tell-all at some point. We'll have to wait until Suri turns 18, most likely.

 

The wheels seem to be coming off of the bus in a rapid fashion. The former Co$ "celebrities" are either shunned or making truly bizarre public appearances (see Travolta, John). I'll be interested to see what happens next.

[psychoticstate]

   But he's not the bio father of his children with Nicole Kidman either. Isabella and Connor were both adopted.

 

 

No, he's not and that's part of my point.  Suri is supposedly his first and only biological child and he's just going to let Katie take her?  And not see her for over a year? 

 

I don't buy it.

[psychoticstate]

Makes me wonder if TommyBoy isn't the one planting the stories about all of Katie's subterfuge.

Also wonder if his sister is still his publicist. I don't think she's smart enough to plant stories or wrangle Tom.

 

One of Tom's biggest mistakes was firing Pat Kingsley.   Under her watch, the Oprah couch jumping, TomKat fauxmance, attacks on Brooke Shields and Matt Lauer and every other eff up never would have happened.  She kept him in check for many years.  Once he went full fledge Scieno, he really tanked his image.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Tom's people were releasing less than positive stories about Katie.  Although I have heard that she is a major pain in the ass who thinks the world of herself.

[Maharincess]

I've been reading about this shit all day, I can't stop, its just so creepy and fascinating.

In all of the many stories, articles and interviews I've read on the subject I've come to one conclusion. Basically anybody who says anything bad about scientology is a big, fat liar. It doesn't matter that more people seem to come out every day with the same stories...they're all liars.

These people are unbelievable.

[ShellSeeker]

This title actually doesn't track if you read up on the Sci-Heads. People always seem to think they worship Xenu. They don't. He's the equivalent to their "Satan". 

 

I did not know that, thanks for the (also weird) info. If anyone has any suggestions for a thread name, throw 'em on out there!

[Wings]

I think the pre nup and divorce had non disclosure agreements and neither will talk about the other ever.  Iron clad gag orders for both of them or else. 

[NewDigs]

I did not know that, thanks for the (also weird) info. If anyone has any suggestions for a thread name, throw 'em on out there!

All Hail Xenu

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

After watching "Going Clear," I tend to think Tom Cruise stays in CoS because they treat him like a god and feed his ego. I think what's keeping Travolta in is a different story. I think they have some dirt on him form auditing sessions that he doesn't want out. I hope he sees that Leah was able to leave and discuss the CoS in public without her life imploding. I think this is due to the fact that her celebrity essentially makes it hard for them to stalk/harass her the way they would others who leave CoS. Travolta would have an even bigger spotlight on him if he left and therefore , more protection. Unless he's admitted to committing a serious crime or something, I hope he sees that he can leave. Follow Leah's model - leave, get out in front of whatever the CoS is going to say about him by saying them first himself, and then spill. People would be on his side and have compassion for him (again, unless he's done something truly awful that CoS has proof of him doing/admitting). [yeah, I don't know how one would get around his wife Kelly Preston....I'm pretty sure she's a spy for the church as well as his wife & even if she isn't, he might fear disconnection from her and his kids.]

I agree that Katie, Tom, et al complaining that Leah wanted to sit by her best friend at the wedding and jokes she made was unnecessary. I understand Katie (and Tom) being pissed if they had to wait for Leah to arrive to the wedding an hour late. Leah was an hour late - surely normal people would just go on with the wedding and not wait, but these are not normal people. I'd probably be a little miffed if someone I had invited to my wedding and flown there on my own dime, etc (which I believe Tom did) and they were an hour late to the wedding. (I wouldn't write some childish knowledge report on them though.)

Leah looks really great. Leaving Scientology looks good on her for sure.

[Kromm]

Even if Katie were to produce a DNA test that could say conclusively without reservation that there is no way on this earth that Tom is Suri's bio father, legally he will remain her father.  I don't know if this is still true but California used to have a 2 year statute.  If you were going to dispute paternity, you had the first two years of the child's life.  After that, it was a done deal. 

 

FWIW, I'm not sure Cruise is Suri's bio father.  He went to such extremes to get custody of his children with Kidman.  How could he let Katie take Suri?  Sure, she probably knows where a few bodies are buried but I have no doubt she signed a confidentiality agreement as part of her contract so it's not like she can blab on him.  Suri's custody may well have been decided when the terms of their arrangement were being hammered out.

Aside from the thing about him being her legal father regardless, I actually don't see why he probably isn't Suri's Bio Dad. Cruise didn't have to actually put his penis inside Holmes for that to be true. 

 

That said, even that might be possible (that he did). I mean I personally have never gotten the strong gay vibe off Cruise that's so present with John Travolta. In his own bizarre disturbing way I think Cruise actually seems very into women (as more than beards, I mean). I do wonder if he's bi (because frankly his over the top devotion to Miscaviage is the one aspect that DOES seem super-gay), but that's neither here nor there when it comes to if he actually ever fucked Katie Holmes.

 

The question of if he'd let Suri go if he WAS her bio Dad?  Well the eyes of the world were much more upon him this time compared to the shenanigans he pulled on Nicole Kidman. Aside from the greater protection Holmes arranged legally, the worm had also turned on how courts might rule, because public pressure was certainly pushing the other way this time. So maybe this was Cruise (or even more likely his buddy Miscaviage) being practical this time. Holmes was probably also far more prepared to go to war over it than Kidman ever was, because as much as it seems Katie herself willingly did the Scientologists' bidding for a few years with appearances,recruiting and publicity, that very fact (vs. Kidman basically isolating herself from a lot of the Scientology shennanigans when she was Mrs. Cruise) means Holmes has a lot more to fink about, if necessary. A lot more material, more knowledge of them to betray and bargain with, I mean. A cellphone camera covertly used in the right/wrong place (like their "Gold Base") could get some real scary shit on video, for example (something that wasn't even possible back in the Kidman days, since cellphones didn't really DO that back then).

Edited November 3, 2015 by Kromm

[Kromm]

Leah looks really great. Leaving Scientology looks good on her for sure.

I have to laud her that while she didn't actually apologize for the nasty shit she did as a SciHead (and I STILL wish she had) that she at least admitted them (in the book and in this interview). In previous interviews she never really lived up to what a rabid attack dog she was on behalf of the Church. I'd like to hope that if someone's relative who she helped recruit looked her in the eye at some point, she'd apologize then, at least.  Or even in the land of stupid celebrity-land, there are people who she'd lambaste in interviews for making anti-Scientologist statements (the way Kirstie Allie has against her now), and I'd hope Remini not only sees the irony of that now, but if she meets them at some event or just around Hollywood, that she'd apologize for that too. But... at least the statement she made in the interview about how she's lied, cheated, etc. (at the behest of CoS) was a start.

[Kromm]

I did not know that, thanks for the (also weird) info. If anyone has any suggestions for a thread name, throw 'em on out there!

 

All Hail Xenu

See, I know it sounds weird, but this suggestion actually makes sense.  Because Xenu is the Scientologist's enemy, the joke a lot of anti-Scientology movements make is along these lines--that they're "for Xenu" in some manner, because anything is better than being for the Scientologists. I have indeed seen "All Hail Xenu" used in this very context. Or since this is about Remini herself, perhaps the context might be something like "Leah Remini and Scientology: Now on Xenu's side?"

 

If we don't want to be THAT provocative (since in theory Xenu IS a bad guy who enslaved all proto-humanity, even if it's a bunch of insane cultists telling us that), we could do something else, like make an e-Meter joke. "Leah Remini and Scientology: Her E-Meter Readings Say She's Stressed" or something like that. Or alluding to one of her break points with CoS, "Leah Remini and Scientology: Missed (Shelly) Miscavige So Much". Or alluding to the Xenu story in a different way... "Leah Remini and Scientology: Her Thetans? NOT Blown Up In A Volcano!"

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

If anyone here has hours free to lose going down the rabbit hole, journalist Tony Ortega's website has basically everything you'd ever want to know about Scientology in general as well as Scientology and celebs such as Tom/Nicole/Katie, Leah, Travolta, and Tom's kids with Nicole (Connor and Isabella Cruise).

http://tonyortega.org

[Kromm]

If anyone here has hours free to lose going down the rabbit hole, journalist Tony Ortega's website has basically everything you'd ever want to know about Scientology in general as well as Scientology and celebs such as Tom/Nicole/Katie, Leah, Travolta, and Tom's kids with Nicole (Connor and Isabella Cruise).

http://tonyortega.org

To me the biggest problem with Ortega and Mark Bunker, and even hearing about stuff like this from people like Remini is that in a way a lot of their reporting is behind the times in many ways, emphasizing all of the old stuff about who died in what purification ritual, or even the old slave labor stuff about their damn camps. All of that stuff is serious, don't mistake me, and makes for disturbing reading, but I found myself far more interested and disturbed by a piece I saw last year (I have to look up who did it--I think maybe CNN) that really went into the more up to date problem with Scientology: that they now own so much property worldwide. The reasons that's disturbing are a long discussion, but the short version is that they've managed to protect their assets really well that way.  Dismantling their membership no longer stops them because they did this. Admittedly their most criminal aspect that needed to be stopped was how they treat people, but you also have to think about what even a smaller hardcore membership of greedy crazies would/could do with endless protected money spread around the entire world.  All I can say is, I hope the Feds realize that at some point they may have to stop David Miscavige from leaving the country, or he'll be like some crazy Bond villain running around the world with endless money.

[Maharincess]

I'm getting ready to start Leah's book. I'll let you all know how it is.

MyPeopleAreNordic, I have nothing but time on my hands these days so thanks for that link.

[SeriousPurrs]

Leah Remini and Scientology: Free at Last

 

Leah Remini Escaped Scientology... and Lived to Talk About It

 

Just a couple of suggestions.

[Kromm]

Leah Remini: Climbing The Bridge to Total Freedom... from Scientology

[rcc]

I can't wait for her book. I already ordered it and I check my Kindle every day hoping it was downloaded early. It'll probably show up on the Kindle Monday at midnight.

I never knew Leah was a scientologist until I watched her wedding and birth shows on VH1 years ago. During her delivery it was totally silent. Nobody, not the Drs, nurses, Leah or her husband said anything during the entire delivery. Thinking that was really weird, I researched and found out its a scientology thing called silent birth.

Wings had an interesting point about Cruise, Travolta and Kirsty Alley all joining as adults. I had never thought of it that way. They didn't go through the same things as Leah and her sisters. I wonder if Kirsty's kids are involved.

I said this on Leah's Facebook today, I don't know if I could have forgiven my mom if she had gotten me involved in something like that as a child. Her mom is lucky, I don't know if I could forgive her. If I were Leah I'd be thinking that I loved my daughter enough to get her out when she was young...why didn't you?

Do what you want but leave innocent kids out of it.

Just my opinion.

Thank you. I haven't seen too much on Leah's mother in this whole mess. I blame her for bringing her two girls into this cult. Leah grew up in it, that's all she really knew of an organized religion. I don't think much of the mother. She's weird as hell and seems to love being in the limelight too much in her daughter's shadow.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I might have to watch again, but can anyone clarify what Leah said wrt her success in acting and Scientology?

Why are there so many well-regarded actors who belong to the CoS? I'm thinking of Elisabeth Moss and the My Name is Earl actor.

[ari333]

Leah had the lady balls to leave AND speak out as opposed to just leaving quietly. That may open the door for Travolta who I love. I have never gotten any vibe from him except hetero family man. Maybe I have blinders on, but IDK. He seems so sweet and normal I cant see (hate to see) him as a CoS drone bot. Same for Kirstie. *sigh* Anyway, good for Leah. That could not have been easy. I admire her ... courage.

Edited November 3, 2015 by ari333

[psychoticstate]

Aside from the thing about him being her legal father regardless, I actually don't see why he probably isn't Suri's Bio Dad. Cruise didn't have to actually put his penis inside Holmes for that to be true. 

 

That said, even that might be possible (that he did). I mean I personally have never gotten the strong gay vibe off Cruise that's so present with John Travolta. In his own bizarre disturbing way I think Cruise actually seems very into women (as more than beards, I mean). I do wonder if he's bi (because frankly his over the top devotion to Miscaviage is the one aspect that DOES seem super-gay), but that's neither here nor there when it comes to if he actually ever fucked Katie Holmes.

 

The question of if he'd let Suri go if he WAS her bio Dad?  Well the eyes of the world were much more upon him this time compared to the shenanigans he pulled on Nicole Kidman. Aside from the greater protection Holmes arranged legally, the worm had also turned on how courts might rule, because public pressure was certainly pushing the other way this time. So maybe this was Cruise (or even more likely his buddy Miscaviage) being practical this time. Holmes was probably also far more prepared to go to war over it than Kidman ever was, because as much as it seems Katie herself willingly did the Scientologists' bidding for a few years with appearances,recruiting and publicity, that very fact (vs. Kidman basically isolating herself from a lot of the Scientology shennanigans when she was Mrs. Cruise) means Holmes has a lot more to fink about, if necessary. A lot more material, more knowledge of them to betray and bargain with, I mean. A cellphone camera covertly used in the right/wrong place (like their "Gold Base") could get some real scary shit on video, for example (something that wasn't even possible back in the Kidman days, since cellphones didn't really DO that back then).

 

Personally I would buy that Cruise's cousin stepped up and donated to the cause of The Golden Child.  Suri definitely has some Mapother characteristics. 

 

Given that the eyes of the world were on Cruise during the TomKat split, I would think he would be MORE likely to want to appear as a doting father of the year.  I think Suri's custody was already ironed out before they were even allegedly married.  I don't think Holmes was any more of a Scieno than I am.  I think she agreed to publicly support the COS while in Cruise's company but never had any intentions of joining the gang herself. 

 

I'm sure Kidman knows quite a bit about the cult.  She was with Cruise for nearly a decade and had to have been privy to some juicy information.   I think the children and her relationship with them was used against her.  I also think Cruise sank far more into the bowels of the COS during the latter years of their marriage and the early years of their split.  

 

Of course, who knows for sure?  Nobody's talking . . . yet.

[emma675]

For what it's worth, I interned at Entertainment Tonight back in college and met John Travolta during an ET interview once. He was literally the nicest guy--he shook hands and introduced himself to everyone in the room, he stepped outside with some of the crew guys and smoked a cigar and chatted, he thanked everyone. He was a quiet, almost shy, guy who seemed really sincere. When the camera came on, he got a little louder and flirtier, but it just seemed like his actor schtick. This was before his son died, though, so I don't know how much he's changed since that. But he did not come off as crazy Scientologist to me then.