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6 hours ago, Matty said:

Liam's mother's crying act and hysterical whining that her son was innocent was absolutely nuts.

She kept breaking down in nearly every single talking head but NOT ONE SINGLE TEAR. Her eyes didn't even get red or teary. It was completely fucking ridiculous. Lady, we're not saying YOU suffocated her, and you're not on the damn stand. Roll it back a little.

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Is it possible for a mother and son to both be sociopaths? Because that is what I saw. Dead eyes on both of them. I do wonder about that twin and how he’s dealing with this. 

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2 hours ago, diana said:

Is it possible for a mother and son to both be sociopaths? Because that is what I saw. Dead eyes on both of them. I do wonder about that twin and how he’s dealing with this. 

Fuck Liam's mom. Sociopathy definitely runs in that family.

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4 hours ago, lightninggirl said:

She kept breaking down in nearly every single talking head but NOT ONE SINGLE TEAR. Her eyes didn't even get red or teary. It was completely fucking ridiculous. Lady, we're not saying YOU suffocated her, and you're not on the damn stand. Roll it back a little.

Perhaps she thought she was also playing a “role” in her son’s big “movie”?   

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18 hours ago, LakeGal said:

 It helped that Preston had enough guilt and conscience that he confessed and told them everything.  

I wanted to know more about that money.  Why was it burnt and hidden in a shoe box?  Why did the aunt tell Sarah not to tell anyone? Obviously it made Liam want to kill for it.  But what else was the aunt hiding about it?

This is completely not part of the murder.  But what was up with the skirt the prosecutor was wearing in court.  The back under the jacket had that strange pleating.  I was distracted by it.  

I don’t believe Preston  had guilt or conscience. He turned on Liam before Liam could turn in him & cut a sweet deal. 

Re:money—see below so I don’t have to type it twice. 

Yes, I noticed the odd skirt too. I thought it was a giant wrinkle at first.

16 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I also had other questions....where did that money come from?  How old was it? What about the story that Sarah & her dad were having issues?  or was that made up BS for the “movie” as well?  Why was Sarah sending her late mom’s stuff around town for storage?  

According to Dateline, the money was found in an old house of her mothers. It was very old and dirty (not burned—to me it looked like maybe it had gotten wet then dried but kind of rusty looking).  They found $25,000 in her safety deposit box. In the fire safe, there was $9,390. I think Liam said he stole $10,000 so they must’ve spent a little. Liam was afraid to deposit it in his account because of its condition so they buried it. They didn’t say why she took they much out.  Her aunt told her not to tell anyone about the cash (and rightly so) but she clearly told.  

I wish I had a box of money in my house, dirty or not. 

I’m reading through the Websleuths threads on this and I’ll post more if I find anything else of interest (or if I need to correct anything here).

Edited by Tdoc72 · Reason: Corrected the $9000 something amount
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Prosecutor's Detective Nicholas Cattelon testified Tuesday that after Sarah Stern's disappearance, her safe deposit box still contained $25,250 in cash.

‘It was all older currency, not in circulation anymore,’ Cattelon said.

He described the cash as ‘dry rot, stuck together, falling apart, it was very brittle.’

Cattelon also described processing Sarah's car for fingerprints, but finding none.
Link to article: https://amp.app.com/amp/2743513002

Also interesting to me:  Liam lost his phone at Sarah’s house, which was found in the yard later by her family member and turned over to police. He bought a new phone 2 days later and never entered any info for Sarah. Hmm, suspicious.  Also the safety deposit box key was found hidden in a vent in his house (different from the key found in his key ring to one of the fire safe boxes).  This makes me even more incredulous that his fake crying mother thinks he’s innocent. 

Edited by Tdoc72
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I cant believe the 20/20 episode was almost exactly like the episode I watched on the ID channel.   The show is "Your Worst Nightmare " two boys kill a friend while she's house sitting. They even had a video of  pre and post murder. It's not the same story. I I'm just stunned by the inhuman behavior. 

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2 hours ago, Coffeewinewater said:

I cant believe the 20/20 episode was almost exactly like the episode I watched on the ID channel.   The show is "Your Worst Nightmare " two boys kill a friend while she's house sitting. They even had a video of  pre and post murder. It's not the same story. I I'm just stunned by the inhuman behavior. 

I thought of that story right away, too. Such a heartbreaking, horrifying case, that one. 

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Liam's mother was awful and I can see where Liam got his coldness.  She tried to cry and couldn't even scrounge up one tear.  Her appearance and behavior explain a lot about Liam. I wonder how the other brother is, if he's a sociopath too.  

I thought it was odd that the dog was in his crate. If the dog didn't try to stop the murder then why put him in the cage?

This was just a sad sad episode. Sarah seemed like a lovely girl, just a shame. I hope those boys rot in prison. 

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Other people in Liam's family believe him, too. Seriously, what does it take? I know it's family and all, but I would disown a family member in a heartbeat after seeing all that evidence. 

Between this and the 48 Hours LAST Saturday who killed an entire family for fun, there seems to be a rise in young sociopaths. The way Liam said to the wired guy when he asked him why, something like, "What am I gonna do, just live some boring life?" Yikes. 

PS. Okay, now I am about the farthest thing you can get from a fashionista, but even I zeroed right in on the prosecutor's skirt and was like, what the hell is that?! That is so unflattering! Hopefully her friends see the episode and are like, girlfriend, burn that skirt! 

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On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 11:18 AM, LakeGal said:

.  But what was up with the skirt the prosecutor was wearing in court.  The back under the jacket had that strange pleating.  I was distracted by it.  

That skirt was so distracting, if it had been on the defense attorney instead of the prosecutor  it would have been grounds for a mistrial.

Why did Sarah's dog just lie there?  Mine would have been barking hysterically if not actually biting.  It made me wonder if the dog was used to seeing Liam and Sarah have sex.  If Sarah had feelings like that for  Liam it's all just that much sadder.    Well he wont be living a "boring life" anymore.

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Oh man that was a terrifying episode...and that Liam's mother, I just wanted to bitch slap her to hell. What was his sentence, I have forgotten now. Thanks guys.

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I never even heard about this until I watched 20/20 the other day. so sad for the father. Losing his wife and now his only daughter. How can anyone believe Liam??? 

You see the police body cam and see the poor dog in the crate. How would he know the dog was in the crate if he wasn't there??? They reported the dog was never crated and had free run of the house.

His mother with the crocodile tears... The way she sobbed about sarah but she couldn't muster up one tear? She must have known something. 

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We just watched a rerun of the program on the Latvian woman whose boyfriend drowned while they were kayaking across the Hudson River. I am still dumbfounded that anyone would be out on this river on a windy day, in early spring. And esp in a kayak! I've always heard that the Hudson has a very strong current. What were they thinking? Wish they'd shown more interviews with his family & friends. Vargas's questions were so leading (as if she were hinting at what the proper response should be).

Edited by annzeepark914
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On 3/4/2019 at 2:59 PM, JudyObscure said:

Why did Sarah's dog just lie there?  Mine would have been barking hysterically if not actually biting.  It made me wonder if the dog was used to seeing Liam and Sarah have sex.  If Sarah had feelings like that for  Liam it's all just that much sadder.    Well he wont be living a "boring life" anymore.

I wondered that too. When the police knocked on the door, they said the dog was barking. But when the officer was talking to the dog in the crate (shown on bodycam), the dog was sitting there quietly and didn’t even seem interested in the treat the officer gave him. So maybe he’s just a super chill dog not bothered by much? 

Edited by Tdoc72
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On 3/11/2019 at 6:12 AM, Tdoc72 said:

I wondered that too. When the police knocked on the door, they said the dog was barking. But when the officer was talking to the dog in the crate (shown on bodycam), the dog was sitting there quietly and didn’t even seem interested in the treat the officer gave him. So maybe he’s just a super chill dog not bothered by much? 

If I were being murdered my dog, Cali, would sit there, wagging her tail, waiting for her turn to get attention. I’ve only heard her bark three times in five years. She is the MOST super chill dog. So much so, we had to get another one (Lexie) who does bark and behaves like a normal dog so I felt safer alone. I think Sarah’s dog is like my Cali. 

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On 3/12/2019 at 6:13 PM, Whimsy said:

If I were being murdered my dog, Cali, would sit there, wagging her tail, waiting for her turn to get attention. I’ve only heard her bark three times in five years. She is the MOST super chill dog. So much so, we had to get another one (Lexie) who does bark and behaves like a normal dog so I felt safer alone. I think Sarah’s dog is like my Cali. 

Your post reminded me of this video:

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6 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

Your post reminded me of this video:

My dog looks EXACTLY like the yellow lab with the lady with the short grey hair.  She's a dudley lab just like that one.  And yeah, I suspect that's exactly how she would act.  

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I'm looking forward to the episode tonight about Elizabeth Holmes. I have a feeling it's going to be really interesting. 

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I had started listening to the podcast and I am anxious to see this as well.  I would love to see the HBO documentary  on Miss Holmes, but I don’t have HBO.  It is just beyond me that she continues to move forward with this considering she knew the idea didn’t work and was a scam.  

Oh my goodness, poor Tyler Schultz.  Good for him.

Edited by Emmeline
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I know hindsight is 20/20 (no pun intended. Lol) but I have to ask...how could anyone believe (which obviously many did) that a 19 year old could create a innovative MEDICAL technology with zero mentorship, minimal education in engineering and no medical degree or experience? Astounding. 

Whats even more astounding is that board members, men with years of business experience, believed her claims of using the technology with  troops overseas etc., without any proof to back it up. They just took her word. Absolutely mind blowing. SMH

She was/is certainly a brilliant con artist, and as someone said, she was able to wrap all of those men, many of whom were old, around her finger. The story regarding Tyler and his grandfather Mr. Schultz was just sad. Perhaps the grandfather in some strange way was trying to protect his grandson’s career, or maybe he was trying to save his personal investment in the company or maybe he was just an old fool or a combination of all these things. SMH. Glad Tyler pushed on and exposed her ass. 

Interesting that she had no women on the board or as executives in the company, and of course no medical doctors on the board either, but we all know why the company didn’t have the latter.

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Wow, wow, wow. Just wow. I feel like lately I'm always posting "You can't make this stuff up", but seriously, you can't. 

I've been on the Leaving Neverland forum a lot lately and there's such an echo of that story in this story. The charismatic person who performs a kind of hypnosis on millions of people, not caring who is getting hurt. 

One thing I've learned though, from watching these shows. Beware of the person with big, wide open, childlike eyes. I keep seeing that in liars and manipulators. 

I'm also learning to watch for a weird disconnect in the facial expressions these people. They can be on trial for murder and they're still smiling and looking innocent. Or pretending to be upset. It's such a giveaway. 

ETA Wait, she didn't go to jail? What?? How is that possible? It was interesting when someone compared her to Bernie Madoff. She seems to have the same amount of remorse. 

Next week, I'm definitely watching the show about Diane Downs (speaking of psychopaths). I read 2 books about her and it's a riveting story. 

Edited by Melina22
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I was fascinated when her professor (the one who kept rolling her eyes and clearly hated her) said that when she taught her she had a perfectly normal voice. 

As for her eyes, sure, they were unusually big and beautiful, but you could tell she knew it and used them as a kind of weapon. She seemed super aware of the effect her voice and appearance were having on people and played that to the hilt. 

And you're right, walnutqueen, at some point they went from mesmerizing to just plain psycho. 

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Okay....came here wondering if others saw the episode last night about Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos.  OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/nightline-documentary-podcast-dropout-story-elizabeth-holmes-theranos/story?id=60365362

This may just be the most interesting and shocking story that I've seen in a long time.  And, how have I missed it until now?  The little blood testing story rings a bell but, not all the other fallout.  

This is a great example of just how dense some supposedly smart people can be.  But, what annoys me is that a person like, Elizabeth, can be coined a mastermind, magical, captivating, mesmerizing even, but, she really isn't.  I would think that many people found her bizarre and troubling.  I've always wondered why some people seem dumb struck by an obviously inept con artist and others see through them pretty quickly.  Jim Jones, David Koresh, Keith Raneire, are just a few who some say were so intoxicating that people believed everything they said, but, come on.....when you look at their spiel.......I find it absurd, but, I'm a skeptic anyway. This woman didn't even seem that convinced in stuff herself, so how in the hell was she bamboozling others? Oops, hope she doesn't try that as a defense....lol.  She did know it was WRONG and crazy.  I have no doubt of that.  Thank goodness she stayed out of politics. lol 

She has the weirdest eyes....omg.  I think she's definitely a criminal.  And so is her ex-lover.  I hope they get a fair sentence.  Oh, her ex-lover's attorney was defending him on air....he looked scared to me.  Like he might be in danger if he didn't do a good job.  So, bizarre. 

I would like to have seen more on what she's doing now.  So, she's engaged.....how does she support herself?  When is her court date?  

I can't figure out why she wasn't snatched up by the Church of Scientology. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

She has the weirdest eyes....omg.  I think she's definitely a criminal.  And so is her ex-lover.  I hope they get a fair sentence.  Oh, her ex-lover's attorney was defending him on air....he looked scared to me.  Like he might be in danger if he didn't do a good job.  So, bizarre. 

You're so right about the lawyer! Several times he had a real deer-in-the-headlights expression as he tried to think of a correct response that wasn't a total lie yet made his client look mostly innocent. It was fascinating. And you're right. There was definitely some fear there. 

So did they both get off scot free or are there upcoming trials? I mean people lost their life savings thanks to her outright lies, not to mention people who may have died from faulty medical tests. I once got charged $300 because I inadvertently failed to stop when passing a school bus. And I paid it without complaint and still feel bad about it . How do people get away with this stuff? 

Edited by Melina22
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They were charged civilly and that was disposed of. A real joke with a $500,000. fine. Please.  But, there were also FEDERAL CRIMINAL charges against both of them.  Those are really serious.  I just watched a seminar on Criminal Federal Court, even though, I don't practice there.  (Needed the credit hours.)  And, the chances of getting off AFTER you are charged is very slim.  Of course, if you have your own legal team who is willing to drag this out and really work all the resources the DOJ has......but, they'll likely make a deal.  Still, I can't imagine they don't get time. I can't imagine they could find any experts that would back up their contentions. 

 That stuff was horrific, imo.  There may even be more charges as more and more comes to light. 

  Is Elizabeth's ex-boyfriend going to pay her legal fees?  Those fees in that kind of case would be HUGE.  If she's broke....maybe, she has a nice, mature, wealthy fiance who is invested in proving her innocence.  lol  Would NOT surprise me. 

And Shultz's grandfather.....oh my....he should be ashamed. 

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And what an inspiration Tyler Shultz is!  The courage to confront the big old think tank with criticism, in order to save people's lives. Then, to address your very accomplished grandfather with the TRUTH! THEN, to withstand coercion from grandfather' and his bully legal team! Then to be sued and go through a civil suit from that group! AND FINALLY, having it in your heart to FORGIVE your grandfather for his behavior that caused you such suffering......man, someone raised that young man with some real integrity.  

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1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And what an inspiration Tyler Shultz is!  The courage to confront the big old think tank with criticism, in order to save people's lives. Then, to address your very accomplished grandfather with the TRUTH! THEN, to withstand coercion from grandfather' and his bully legal team! Then to be sued and go through a civil suit from that group! AND FINALLY, having it in your heart to FORGIVE your grandfather for his behavior that caused you such suffering......man, someone raised that young man with some real integrity.  

I thought the same thing!  Here she thought she was smarter than everyone (and she was smart, gotta give her that) and to think she was running this long con with lots of wealthy and connected old white men at her side and in strides this 24 year old who refuses to sign a non disclosure clause and he rips the whole case open.  And then your billion year old grandfather sides with this woman?  Ouch.

She tried to imitate Steve Jobs and failed miserably at it.  The standard black uniform?  "I can't be bothered to shop, work in everything."  The green juice?  "I can't be bothered to cook, work is everything."  

I hope she gets slapped with a billion federal fraud charges and sits in jail for a loooong time.

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I thought it was telling that according to one of her professors, when she was told that the idea she had for some kind of transdermal patch was simply unworkable, she didn't even bother to discuss or defend it, she simply ignored the professor and continued as if nothing had been said. Maybe it's a kind of Delusions of Grandeur type of thing. "If I decide to follow my vision, nobody and nothing can stop me. It's my destiny to be brilliant and famous. Anyone who disagrees with me is just jealous." I wonder what in her childhood instilled this excessive self-belief in her? 

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You know for some reason, there seems to be more and more people coming out that seem to have lots of signs that might have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  lol  I did some reading on it recently for personal reasons and OMG.  It's amazing.  Some traits include, lack of empathy, no conscience, use people, flattery to get their way, consumed with their own sense of superiority, refusal to see anything they do as wrong. When others confront them, it's the other person who is in the wrong....ALWAYS.  Sound like her.....and her former side kick. 

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16 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

and more people coming out that seem to have lots of signs that might have Narcissistic Personality Disorder

I find it hard to believe she DOESN'T have NPD. She's like the poster child for it. I know there's something called a Malignant Narcissist. I'm too lazy to look it up right now but she probably qualifies. 

It's true we keep seeing people like this but given the kind of shows we like to watch, no wonder. 😁

Also, it seems to take a degree of narcissism and ruthlessness to become famous in our society. 

That said, I've known some major Narcissists in my personal life, not famous at all, and they tend to leave a trail of pain and destruction behind them without remorse. 

Watch for the 20/20 on Diane Downs next Friday to see some real narcissism. (And psychopathy. I'm not sure how the 2 things correlate.) 

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In some of the photos, Holmes  looked like she might have had her eyelids lifted and they lifted them too high. Too much of a startled look, imo.  But, maybe, she was born that way.  Most people don't show that much of the entire cornea. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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20 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I find it hard to believe she DOESN'T have NPD. She's like the poster child for it. I know there's something called a Malignant Narcissist. I'm too lazy to look it up right now but she probably qualifies. 

I agree - she had that running commentary "people gone.....too soon" down pat - I loved how it was all strung together.  She had the line down pat but forgot to get chocked up with emotion, probably because she had none.

Edited by Mrs. Hanson
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That was a fantastic story. When will they sentence her, that fake bitch needs to go to jail with Bernie. Yes, and what in the hell was going on with her eyes, she looked like she was on smack to me. God, I bet they hurt a hell of a lot of people. Well done in reporting all of this 20/20!.☠️ 

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Goodie, I've got that down to record as well, feels like I am going to go into overload with this scandal...but it's so juicy. God, what a horrible scam.

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Yesterday, I read that there is a court status review hearing of the criminal charges against Holmes and her former lover set for April 22.  It's taking so long, because of the millions of pages of documents involved. I'll try to find the link again.  So, it may be a long time before there's a trial.  Meanwhile, she's out free frequenting coffee shops.  I have no idea how a person with her propensity can stay out of the spotlight and away from rich, vulnerable, older men. 

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Wow! I didn’t know anything about Theranos or Holmes so this episode was a big fat fascinating shock to me. And I found her mannerisms and affectstions odd and a little creepy right off the bat, before I quite understood where this story was going. Yes, how on earth does a KID get a snowball rolling like this??? A couple of people said early on that they were taken with her “great idea,” even though they didn’t understand it. I think only her straight-talking ex-teacher (I loved her) pointed out how stupid that was: “a FLYING CAR is a good idea. It doesn’t work but hey! Who cares?” It’s astonishing. I wanted to put all the stupidity down to sheer greed but I don’t think that was true of everyone. A lot of that talent pool really seemed to want to believe. I guess they had seen enough unlikely successes in Silicon Valley that it seemed an exciting possibility.   

I am eager to listen to the podcast and read as much as I can, too. Really curious about how she assembled that astonishing board of directors. 

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10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

They didn’t go into half of the craziness that was Theranos!!! Hope the HBO doc on Monday is better.

Thanks for the tip. I just set my PVR to record it. 

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She wanted to emulate Steve Jobs, only this empress had no clothes. Steve HAD a revolutionary product, Holmes made one up in her mind so she could live the "Jobs" experience. 

Either she convinced herself the technology would figure itself out if she just kept throwing more money and skilled professionals at it, OR, she is just a con who stupidly did not have an exit strategy. 

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I'm curious about the board too.  I don't have the time to investigate, but, this is my suspicion.  As the story pointed out, they were mainly older, educated, experienced, rich men with government or political ties.  IMO, that was on purpose by Holmes to gain credibility for her company and its product.  My question is if these older men were suffering from any kind of cognitive decline or dementia.  It's more and more common these days.  They may have lost some of their ability to discern a scam. And, their reasoning and analytical skills may have been reduced. People with this condition often have delusions and magical thinking....so, Holmes's ideas might have seemed fine to them.  Recall, Ronald Reagan began slipping years before it was well known.  

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9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

My question is if these older men were suffering from any kind of cognitive decline or dementia.

If so, my question is why this would only manifest in the case of a "doe-eyed attractive young ingenue".  Because there are plenty of young men out there with magical ideas, and these horny old farts never fell for THEIR B.S.

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I read the book Bad Blood a few months ago, so knew what to expect when watching this show. But still, as others have said, I am astounded by how supposedly smart people were conned by this woman. Mind blowing. 

What I really don't understand is why Walgreens went ahead and brought this into their stores, when Theranos wasn't even able to show proof of the premise of the invention in the first place. The blood tests were supposed to be carried out using a finger prick, but there were phlebotomists employed to draw blood from the customers' veins, no different that any other lab would do. Would you not think that would be a red flag to Walgreens? It is bad enough that many people not in the medical field were conned, but for a pharmacy like Walgreens to be conned? To me, they were as responsible for their customers getting false lab results as Theranos was in providing them. I am amazed that they have not been sued as well. 

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2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Either she convinced herself the technology would figure itself out if she just kept throwing more money and skilled professionals at it, OR, she is just a con who stupidly did not have an exit strategy. 

I vote for this idea.  

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

As the story pointed out, they were mainly older, educated, experienced, rich men with government or political ties.  IMO, that was on purpose by Holmes to gain credibility for her company and its product. 

And all men!!  No women.....hmmm.....and no medical professional of any kind.  The female doctor who told her it was not going to work was NOT buying into her at all.   

I still can't over the deep voice - why would she do that?  To seem more authoritive, I guess.

Edited by Mrs. Hanson
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