20/20 - General Discussion

[tribeca]

Is there a separate place or is this where we discuss 20/20 in an instant 

[valdawn]

I haven't seen a sepearate one, I'd discuss it here. I'm getting ready to watch the one I dvr'd last week.

[auntjess]

I watched an older episode, Out of Bounds, about a piece of shit named Eric Myers, who thought it was OK to disappear from his family for years because he was gay, then come back and try and duck responsibility for repaying the life insurance they'd filed for in good faith.
His family is rich, and good ole mom welcomed him back, but damn, have some care for your grandchildren.

Edited June 18, 2017 by auntjess

[walnutqueen]

On 6/11/2017 at 7:21 PM, tribeca said:

Is there a separate place or is this where we discuss 20/20 in an instant 

There was a thread for this show just titled "In an Instant"  http://forums.previously.tv/forum/1592-in-an-instant/, but there hasn't been any traffic in that forum since 2015 (which was Season 1 - we're now in Season 3).

I thought they could've cut the episode down to an hour just by eliminating some of the eleventy billion times someone yelled "Papito!".

[tribeca]

Here I thought it was a new show LOL 

 

    The poor girl in the cult was so sad.  I just don't understand how some one could leave their child in that environment.  The dad obviously felt something was wrong but didn't do anything.  The mother still believes the cult leader even after he plead guilty? 

[JudyObscure]

I love stories about cults, but I'm always flabbergasted over the people who buy into them.  I can (slightly) understand a young single person with no direction being drawn to a certain way of life, but for a couple with children to just quit their jobs, sell everything and take their child into a cult, is something I'll never get.  I always want to tell all those people -- if someone tells you they are Jesus -- that's a sure sign that they aren't.

[A.Ham]

Quote

I thought they could've cut the episode down to an hour just by eliminating some of the eleventy billion times someone yelled "Papito!".

My sister and I caught the last 15 minutes or so of this, I had to freeze the screen to show my sister the child named "Papito Martinez". We laughed at what seemed like forever because Papito is a latin nickname, but we had never heard of it used on a child, and the chyron had made it look like that was his given name. Maybe it was the wine from our early dinner, but that was funny as all get out to us. But yes, every other word after that seemed to be that nickname. I don't think I could have sat through two hours of that. Glad the kids are ok, though.

[msrachelj]

9 hours ago, A.Ham said:

My sister and I caught the last 15 minutes or so of this, I had to freeze the screen to show my sister the child named "Papito Martinez". We laughed at what seemed like forever because Papito is a latin nickname, but we had never heard of it used on a child, and the chyron had made it look like that was his given name. Maybe it was the wine from our early dinner, but that was funny as all get out to us. But yes, every other word after that seemed to be that nickname. I don't think I could have sat through two hours of that. Glad the kids are ok, though.

this was terrible. thank god the boys are ok, but what were they thinking making a two hour "doc"? i don't know what you'd call it, out of this story.   the woman with the animal print turban on her head, never want to run into her.. newburgh, ny, was it?,  looks like someplace you should avoid at all costs.  it was so drawn out i had to fast forward a lot. i am now curious what path the little boys will take in life. i hope they get out that terrible place and make good lives for themselves. that cop with the bloodhound! omg. do they just throw any officer with a dog? an untrained dog? remember he said he howled for 8 hours every day? not a good sign. find out what is wrong with the dog. what the hell? he came off looking incompetent as did the police dept for having this bloodhound and not knowing how to use it. jeez. something just felt off with the way this was filmed, the way it looked and sounded. maybe because there was no narration? i did not like the way the show was produced. 

[iwasish]

At first I thought the kids were in there for a day or so, in reality it was only a few hours. Not that it couldn't have ended badly after just two hours but they really dragged it out.   The blood hound handler was pretty useless. The dog responded to the area and he pulls him away..

Too bad the family didn't have a dog of their own. I'll bet it would have heard the kids calls or even been able to sniff them out. I know my dog will play hide and seek in the house or playground with us.

Did the one boy have a whole sleeve of tattoos at the end or was he wearing a cast on his arm? He couldn't be more than 16/17 now so I hope they weren't real.

[illini1959]

On 6/18/2017 at 0:50 PM, walnutqueen said:

I thought they could've cut the episode down to an hour just by eliminating some of the eleventy billion times someone yelled "Papito!".

I hear that!

I've seen several of these "In an Instant" episodes and they're all like this. Two hours that could EASILY be boiled down to 1. Way too much repetition and dragging things out.

It could be a much better, more interesting, series if the powers that be figure this out.

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 5/20/2017 at 6:52 PM, Maharincess said:

If my kids had ever spoken to me like that kid spoke to his parents,  I'd have dumped his ass in the desert myself. 

I don't understand the parents on this. If the kids are addicted to their phones or video games, take them away!  A 14 year old doesn't pay the electric bills nor does he have the ability to pay for his games and stuff himself so take them away!  Whiny ass parents who never take control and would rather complain than do something about it piss me off.  The girls parents even said it was easier to give her the phone back instead of parenting her and taking it away from her.  They said she has a fit if they take her phone, so, let her have a damn fit! 

My kids were punished by having their favorite things taken away.  If they did something they knew they shouldn't have done, their favorite things were taken away. With my daughter it was her stereo, I would take the wires to it and put them away until she behaved properly. With my son, it was his video games I would take.  They knew if they messed up, they wouldn't have their favorite things anymore.  These idiot parents should have taken the devices away from their bratty kids. 

I am a special ed teacher and this last year was in a middle school, grades 5 through 8.  I will be brief:  Parents are pushovers.  They are afraid of their kids.  Seriously.  Then after two cell phone pulls the PARENT has to come pick them up:  "But I have to work, I can't make it in for a few days."  "Me:  "Oh well......."  Parent:  "But Johnny will be upset!"  "Me:  "Then tell Johhny to keep his phone in his locker all day, per school policy."  Lather rinse repeat.  

When my kids were little I took their treasured stuff to my mom's house for a while, and told then "Don't bother calling Gramma, she won't help you!"  

And yes, we had kids come in every Monday saying they played Call of Duty for twelve hours on Saturday or Sunday.  Sigh.....

[JudyObscure]

The entire cellphone thing is becoming weird and almost scary to me.  In a few short years we went from, nobody has one and we all got along fine,  to everyone must have one.  My husband and I are stubbornly refusing to get one.  We have a land line hanging on the wall in the kitchen that seems to serve our purposes just fine.  But the flack we get!  The library quit leaving phone messages, notifying me of books I had ordered.  They told me they had texted me.  A friend of mine hesitates to meet me for lunch anymore because, "What if something happens to one of us in route and we can't call the other!"  Businesses  and doctors offices say they tried to call me back but no one answered.  I say did you leave a message?  "No."  Did you let it ring more than three times so I had time to get to the phone to answer?  "No."  We are all now required to hold a cellphone in one of our hands at all times!

[ElleBee]

On 7/3/2017 at 3:48 PM, JudyObscure said:

The entire cellphone thing is becoming weird and almost scary to me.  In a few short years we went from, nobody has one and we all got along fine,  to everyone must have one.  My husband and I are stubbornly refusing to get one.  We have a land line hanging on the wall in the kitchen that seems to serve our purposes just fine.  But the flack we get!  The library quit leaving phone messages, notifying me of books I had ordered.  They told me they had texted me.  A friend of mine hesitates to meet me for lunch anymore because, "What if something happens to one of us in route and we can't call the other!"  Businesses  and doctors offices say they tried to call me back but no one answered.  I say did you leave a message?  "No."  Did you let it ring more than three times so I had time to get to the phone to answer?  "No."  We are all now required to hold a cellphone in one of our hands at all times!

So refreshing to read this--I go through the same. I have a prepaid flip phone (which people find hilarious--you have a FLIP PHONE?! LOLOLOLOL!), that I use for emergencies. I'm good at responding to e-mail, and my landline is right there when I'm home, but somehow what worked perfectly fine for many, many years is now totally unacceptable. It's like people get downright angry that I'm not conforming. Fact is, when I'm away from a phone, I like being disconnected. I find it re-energizing to live parts of my life technology-free.

(Funny too about your story with the doctor's office. The front desk of one of my doctors called to tell me that the doctor had an emergency and I would need to reschedule. There was a big confusion (boring details omitted) but after several miscommunications back and forth, I asked her why she didn't leave a message. She said "I couldn't--there was something wrong with your phone." Knowing my phone was perfectly fine, I asked her what she was talking about. Turns out she'd gotten a busy signal on my landline and apparently didn't know what that sound was, so she figured my phone must be broken. <Sigh>)

[Medicine Crow]

6 minutes ago, ElleBee said:

So refreshing to read this--I go through the same. I have a prepaid flip phone (which people find hilarious--you have a FLIP PHONE?! LOLOLOLOL!), that I use for emergencies. I'm good at responding to e-mail, and my landline is right there when I'm home, but somehow what worked perfectly fine for many, many years is now totally unacceptable. It's like people get downright angry that I'm not conforming. Fact is, when I'm away from a phone, I like being disconnected. I find it re-energizing to live parts of my life technology-free.

(Funny too about your story with the doctor's office. The front desk of one of my doctors called to tell me that the doctor had an emergency and I would need to reschedule. There was a big confusion (boring details omitted) but after several miscommunications back and forth, I asked her why she didn't leave a message. She said "I couldn't--there was something wrong with your phone." Knowing my phone was perfectly fine, I asked her what she was talking about. Turns out she'd gotten a busy signal on my landline and apparently didn't know what that sound was, so she figured my phone must be broken. <Sigh>)

Me too, 15 yr.-old flip phone for emergencies, although keeping it charged is the bane of my existence.

A friend of mine (over 70 yrs.) changed his land line to an I-phone & is constantly bothered by the amount of technology he has to deal with just to make & receive calls.  He's going nuts with his choice!!!

[skippy]

Is this the place to discuss 20/20 "In an Instant"?  Is anyone else watching "Frozen On the Mountain" right now?  I just have to say that these two people are so stupid, they deserve whatever misfortune occurs.  I feel sorry for their dog, it's not his fault his owners are morons.

[saber5055]

Count me as one who has a corded (Princess!) land-line phone. I've had too many phones stuck by lightning, and a cordless phone won't work if the power goes out ... and I need it to call the electric company to say the power is out. I do have a cell phone that I use for emergencies (like when the power AND the phone line are out), but it locked up four months ago and I haven't bothered to replace it. Yet. Still, I refuse to text. And it irritates the heck out of me when someone has something for sale and says "text if you want to buy it." One item I wanted to buy two months ago is still for sale because the seller wanted text inquiries. I ended up buying the same item from someone who would answer an email and/or take a phone call.

I watched the Frozen on the Mountain 20/20 ep last night and, as a climber, I was fully engrossed in it. I know for a fact how weather conditions can change “In An Instant,” and I know what 40-mph winds are like in a sub-zero blizzard. Those two are lucky to be alive, although I wondered by Rex wasn’t trying to keep Tiffany warm, and vice versa. I’d have been hugging that dog for, literally, my life. As for them being “morons,” I guess you can call a few dozen professional mountaineers and professional Everest guides “morons” too, as their dead and frozen bodies are still up on Everest. Me, I call those two kids lucky, not morons. Plenty of hikers die in the wilderness. 20/20 just doesn’t do shows about them.

[tribeca]

I am an episode behind on In An Instant.   The people held hostage in the library had me on the edge of my seat.  Which sounds stupid since the people trapped were all talking in real time LOL.  It just just so freakishly real to me.  The actor playing the crazy man just was scary and so sad.  The diabetic woman going through that was also frightening.  Really didn't think she would make it.  The police officer who went in and made himself a hostage was very brave and quick thinker.   Felt bad for the DJ but they really stepped up when they found out it wasn't a prank. 

[saber5055]

Tribeca, I like In An Instant because the real people are interviewed so I know they lived, which greatly reduces my stress. I liked the library episode, too, and WOW, good on that police officer for his bravery, planning and figuring out how the bomb would work. Then the bomb DIDN'T go off ... then it did later. What an ordeal. And the diabetic woman, and "regular" people hoping to just live another day. Yeah, it was a good episode for sure. Are there more deranged people these days, or are we just hearing about them more?

[A.Ham]

On 7/8/2017 at 8:40 PM, skippy said:

 

Is this the place to discuss 20/20 "In an Instant"?  Is anyone else watching "Frozen On the Mountain" right now?  I just have to say that these two people are so stupid, they deserve whatever misfortune occurs.  I feel sorry for their dog, it's not his fault his owners are morons.

 

I saw it yesterday. How do you set out to hike to the peak of the tallest mountain in your area and not even check the weather forecast? I mean, I check the forecast every time I go out unless it's for a quick errand. They sure were not smart hikers. The only thing the girl did right was put her phone in airplane mode, which probably helped conserve the little bit of battery the guy was able to use to summon help. 

[saber5055]

Just fyi about the Frozen on the Mountain In an Instant episode: Kenny Bryan Pastén is upset with how ABC altered the facts of this story. So much so that he is considering suing ABC. You can read his posts on his FB page: www.facebook.com/kenny.pasten. What chaps me is he posts that he has "gotten hundreds of hate mail messages on phone, texts, IG, Snapchat and Facebook." It disgusts me that people sitting on their couch eating Doritos can judge someone they see on a (mostly) fictionalized tv show, plus say they "deserve to die." WTH, people. Google "lost hikers" and you'll find hundreds of articles about hikers and climbers lost, rescued and many recovered dead, or bodies unable to be recovered or never found. They all deserved to die? Where's the compassion these days? RexiTron was the only member of this trio that wasn't harmed, physically or mentally.

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 3/26/2016 at 4:05 PM, ari333 said:

I feel I may sound bitchy to say this, but here goes. Did anyone else find it odd that they had 10,000 DVD movies?

No you are not.  I used to do homebound education services and one home had about 7000 DVD movies!!  I was like.....really?  Who has the time to watch them?  (Full disclosure:  I own, like five movies.  Seriously!)

 

On 5/28/2016 at 2:37 PM, kat165 said:

As far as I know in order to receive a home schooling stipend/payment you need to follow specific state guidelines which probably vary from state to and give the students tests which need to be passed & submitted.

In MN a homeschooling mom/dad does NOT receive payment.  If a child is disables there could be SSI payments.  

[saber5055]

Well, last night was another In An Instant that left me depressed. The bank president, having to go through that horrible trauma, as did his wife and others, then the show ends with they are divorced now -- I'm positive the robbery had everything to do with that, just like divorces that happen after a child is murdered -- then the poor guy gets pages and pages of troll hate and threats. Just like I posted about the hate Kenny got after Frozen on the Mountain, WTH, people. And I totally understand his changing professions to a financial advisor. So many lives ruined because of those robbers, and his continuing to be ruined through cr*ppy social media. Everyday life is hard enough w/o all these cyber cretins, hating behind their anonymity. And NO ONE knows what they would do in that same situation, especially all of us Dorito-eating couch watchers.

[walnutqueen]

^ Agree.

This was another episode that could have easily been wrapped up in one hour, though.

[saber5055]

Hi Walnut. I agree about the time spent on this episode. I didn't see the first hour and was totally caught up, and then some, seeing just the last hous. And no insult intended to Doritos eaters. We're not all bad!

[CaughtOnTape]

I"m so sick and tired of hearing people take up for OJ Simpson.  It was refreshing to hear someone finally say he was a fucktard who got caught this time.  That one guy "I ain't goin' down for OJ because I know he ain't goin' down for me." was awesome.  I applauded him.

He should stay in jail for the rest of his life.  

He has a shrine to Nicole on his wall in his cell...pfffft shouldn't have killed her then dipshit.

[stillhere1900]

On 7/17/2017 at 11:10 AM, CaughtOnTape said:

I"m so sick and tired of hearing people take up for OJ Simpson.  It was refreshing to hear someone finally say he was a fucktard who got caught this time.  That one guy "I ain't goin' down for OJ because I know he ain't goin' down for me." was awesome.  I applauded him.

He should stay in jail for the rest of his life.  

He has a shrine to Nicole on his wall in his cell...pfffft shouldn't have killed her then dipshit.

Why should he "stay in jail for the rest of his life" ?  He's done the amount of time that he was suppose to do for the crime he was *sentenced* for.

[Maharincess]

Because he's a murderer who slaughtered two people and left their bloody bodies where his young children could have easily found them. And that included the dead body of their own mother.

 I think that's a pretty damn good reason for the killer to be in prison for the rest of his life.  I couldn't care less that he did his time for this crime, he didn't do any for double murder. 

I'm not the original poster but that's my answer to your question. 

[saber5055]

I watched some of OJ's "interview" with the judge and LOL'd when he said (and I paraphrase), "I don't lose my temper and I've never used any weapon, ever, I never would." This is reference to who had the gun in the hotel-room robbery. I was wishing the judge would have said, "Well, what about knives then?"

To make clear, this was during his hearing as to whether he would get parole.

[saber5055]

The In An Instant episode about the boys buried in the snow bank was a rerun, but first-time viewing for me. I couldn't believe how lucky those kids and parents were that the police kept looking for the kids some six hours. Any other police force would say the kids weren't missing until 24 hours past, and they wouldn't even go out to search. And seriously, that dog handler? He needs some training on how to read his SAR dog signaling a find. What a jackass. Plus he let us know he hated his dog anyway, for "barking/howling nonstop" on the way to a search. Get rid of that guy and give the dog to a handler who cares.

[walnutqueen]

33 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

The In An Instant episode about the boys buried in the snow bank was a rerun, but first-time viewing for me. I couldn't believe how lucky those kids and parents were that the police kept looking for the kids some six hours. Any other police force would say the kids weren't missing until 24 hours past, and they wouldn't even go out to search. And seriously, that dog handler? He needs some training on how to read his SAR dog signaling a find. What a jackass. Plus he let us know he hated his dog anyway, for "barking/howling nonstop" on the way to a search. Get rid of that guy and give the dog to a handler who cares.

Trust In Dog.

"Papito!!!"

How's that for In an Instant?  ;-)

[CaughtOnTape]

Ya know...I dunno if I agree that Michelle Carter is guilty for killing that kid.  What she said and did were disgusting but was she at fault?  I dunno. 

But I will say this...if her conviction stops people from telling other people to kill themselves online then I'm all for it.  Kids these days think that because they are behind a screen their words don't matter because it's not as bad if you aren't saying it face to face.  It's about time someone's feet are held to the fire for the disgusting shit people say to others on the internet.

[Zahdii]

No.  She didn't kill him.  But she did everything possible to make sure he killed himself.

When he got out of the pickup and she told him to get back in...Words fail me.

Any tears she sheds are because she is now known as the person he trusted and she used that trust to make him take his life, and now everyone knows what kind of a person she is.

She didn't get enough time, and might even never have to do time if her appeal goes her way.

Having anxiety or a eating disorder doesn't obsolve her of her crime.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

It's about time someone's feet are held to the fire for the disgusting shit people say to others on the internet.

That's the only good thing that came from all this.  People might stop and think for a second before they say any cruel thing they can to someone else, without having to look them in the eye.

I can put myself in the boy's mother's place enough to want Michelle to spend the rest of her life in prison.  There's every reason to believe he might still be alive and getting over his depression if she just hadn't texted two things; "Your family will get over it," and "Get back In the truck."

On the other hand, I can see why Michelle's parents keep saying she tried to talk him out of it for over a year and then came to believe he would never be happy and that he really wanted to do it.

What (I think) they need to do is come up with a name for this, it's not quite murder or manslaughter, but something closer to inciting a riot or hate speech or that "duty of care," law.  It needs a name and a set sentence, so kids will know it's wrong and that they could go to jail for it.

On a shallow note: Michelle Carter looks so young and innocent in her 17 year old pictures at the time, and now she looks so old and hard, with those black eyebrows.  Her lawyer should have made her tone those down.  Could that be grounds for appeal?

[UsernameFatigue]

I would love to know what posters thought of Friday's show where Tom Martens and his daughter Molly Corbett were convicted of murdering her husband Jason. I didn't like her right from the start (not that that makes her guilty of course). Saying that she wanted to be a doctor, but that when she got to college she realized it was hard and dropped out? Apparently she figured that she could breeze through medical school with the same effort that she put into high school. Sheesh. Then she went on to say that her relationship with Jason moved quickly, but she didn't know how to slow it down and didn't want to phone her parents that she was coming home as she didn't want to look like a failure. Apparently she was incapable of slowing the relationship down, or not getting involved with her employer in the first place. 

How convenient that her father just happened to bring a baseball bat on the impromptu visit, but didn't give it to Jason's son so he still had it. And oh, that Molly had a paving brick on her bedside table. The fact that there was so much blood on the lower parts of the wall but she and her father insisted that they didn't keep hitting him when he was down was ridiculous. In any case I think they both deserved to be convicted, but am wondering what others thought. I also did some research to find out what evidence was presented at the trial but not divulged by 20/20 but will leave that for another post.  

[Madding crowd]

I kept wondering why no one talked to her mother. Her mother was in the house when it happened but they showed no testimony from her. I could see that she might not want to be in the show, but her testimony should be part of public records. Obviously the father and daughter weren't telling the truth, but I still couldn't tell if the man was abusive.

[saber5055]

JudyObscure wrote: "That's the only good thing that came from all this. People might stop and think for a second before they say any cruel thing they can to someone else, without having to look them in the eye." I write: That will never EVER happen. That case will have no influence whatsoever on Internet trolls. Internet bashing will continue and will, I think, grow, just like roaches after nuclear war. Yeah, I know ... "Have a nice day."

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I kept wondering why no one talked to her mother. Her mother was in the house when it happened but they showed no testimony from her. I could see that she might not want to be in the show, but her testimony should be part of public records. Obviously the father and daughter weren't telling the truth, but I still couldn't tell if the man was abusive.

What I wondered while watching the show is why the mother didn't call 911? Her daughter is supposedly screaming at the hands of her big, abusive husband and her much smaller husband goes to the rescue armed with nothing more than a baseball bat. One would think the attack was quite noisy, and she is just sitting downstairs waiting for the outcome? How did she know her daughter and husband would not be killed or injured, and Jason would come after her next? But nope, no call to 911 from mom. I also didn't think the recording they played showed Jason as an abuser - she was obviously goading him on. 

So what I found when googling was:

20/20 made it sound like when the parents' plans fell through and they decided to make an impromptu visit as it wasn't far away. In fact her parents lived a 5 hour drive from their daughter's house. 

I found an article in the Irish Daily Mail headed "She Agitated Jason - Then Rang Daddy". It had some testimony from the trial. Two of the EMTs testified that when they arrived big areas of blood had already congealed. They wiped blood away from Jason to see his injuries, and the blood had already dried. Also in the ambulance they both noted that his torso was cold. 

There was a sedative that causes drowsiness in Jason's blood. However he didn't take sedatives, Molly did. Jason was hit 12 times. Likely easier to accomplish if the guy is sedated. 

Not sure if it was that or another article I read where they moved back to the states because she was homesick. Also a couple of nights before the murder, they were out to dinner with friends and Molly was badgering Jason about his weight. He was so upset that he left the dinner and walked home. Doesn't seem like something an abused woman would do to someone she is afraid of. 

Jason's inlaws from his first marriage said they did not say that they thought he killed their daughter, and actually swore out a statement in front of a notary/lawyer to that effect. Jason's first wife died from an asthma attack - she was in the car with Jason as he rushed to meet the ambulance to save time in getting her to the hospital. Molly and her dad definitely wanted to leave the impression that Jason killed his first wife, and that Molly was next. 

OK, this is getting way too long. Lol. Molly's previous boyfriend discussed her bipolar disorder which she was hospitalized for when they were together.  She thought she would be happy if they got married, so they got engaged. That didn't help so she then thought she needed to have children to be happy. Neighbours of Jason and Molly's said that she told them that she was the mother of Jason's daughter, and even described the birth. Yikes. 

All I have read points to an unstable woman from a high achieving family who went from Daddy taking care of her to wanting Jason to take care of her. Apparently Jason wanted to move back to Ireland and she wanted to stay and keep the kids. It boggles my mind that even after he died she wanted custody, when the children's biological families - both maternal and paternal - were in Ireland. 

[lb60]

I kept wondering why Molly couldn't make the slightest attempt at eye contact with the reporter.

Oh, right!  Because she and her father are guilty, guilty, guilty.  

[Koalagirl]

What didn't ring true to me was when the father said Jason was dragging Molly toward the bathroom so he hit him in the back of the head.  When I picture dragging someone I imagine walking backward into the bathroom so it would have been impossible to have used the bat to hit him in the back of his head.    If  the back of his head was toward me he would have been pushing Molly into the bathroom.

Am I overthinking?

[walnutqueen]

Blood spatter pattern does not lie.

[Tdoc72]

On 8/14/2017 at 0:01 PM, Madding crowd said:

I kept wondering why no one talked to her mother. Her mother was in the house when it happened but they showed no testimony from her. I could see that she might not want to be in the show, but her testimony should be part of public records. Obviously the father and daughter weren't telling the truth, but I still couldn't tell if the man was abusive.

I'm hoping the mother will be deposed for the civil trial. I can't believe she didn't at least call 911. They hear fighting, then husband goes upstairs. Wouldn't 3 people fighting be even louder?  

Based on reading a lot of articles and several full threads on Websleuths, I don't think he was abusive at all. Molly had visited a divorce attorney 2 yrs prior to the murder, who told her that a non-adoptive parent would only get custody if there was domestic violence.  And I think she laid her trap from there. The recordings of a fight are lame.  My hubs and I would sound similar.  And I'd assume she'd give the worst she had to 20/20. She presented no evidence of dv at trial. I know she didn't have to legally. She only had her statement and the children's statements. After the murder, they denied any abuse. A week after, they both had stories to tell about abuse and the grandmother was insistant on interviewing one kid first. So much so that it was a red flag to police. Once returning to Ireland, they have recanted any abuse to the police, therapists and guardians. Even her father testified that he'd never seen or heard of any abuse. 

[Tdoc72]

2 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

What didn't ring true to me was when the father said Jason was dragging Molly toward the bathroom so he hit him in the back of the head.  When I picture dragging someone I imagine walking backward into the bathroom so it would have been impossible to have used the bat to hit him in the back of his head.    If  the back of his head was toward me he would have been pushing Molly into the bathroom.

Am I overthinking?

I don't think you're overthinking. It just doesn't make sense to me either. Both listening to and reading the father's testimony, I saw how he was trying to make it fit some of the evidence. 

Another point for me was the defense attorney kept pointing out their size difference. Big strong Jason gets beat to death while poor little Tom and Molly have no injuries. Smh. 

[Phoebe70]

I'm still reeling from last week's episode about the guy losing his limbs.  Wow.  How heartbreaking to be so sick all of a sudden and to lose your limbs.  I'm so used to murder stories, it was nice to have a break from that.  I'm glad he survived and is doing well.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, Phoebe70 said:

I'm still reeling from last week's episode about the guy losing his limbs.  Wow.  How heartbreaking to be so sick all of a sudden and to lose your limbs.  I'm so used to murder stories, it was nice to have a break from that.  I'm glad he survived and is doing well.

That guy was truly amazing.  Yes, he had a lot going for him, but the sheer strength of his will was something to behold.  Loved his surgeon, and how his own personal hero, Sully came to meet him.  Great story, even though the initial cause of this all was such a mystery (and that makes it very frightening to consider).

[ari333]

Did you all see the one about the shooting in Arizona at the university? 

[walnutqueen]

5 hours ago, ari333 said:

Did you all see the one about the shooting in Arizona at the university? 

No!!! How did I miss this?  (Suck it, DVR!).

[CaughtOnTape]

On 9/16/2017 at 0:06 PM, ari333 said:

Did you all see the one about the shooting in Arizona at the university? 

I did.

While I feel terrible for that mother and father, I was kind of put off by the mother saying she blamed the parents for raising a kid who would do what he did.  It seemed pretty clear her son was being a frat boy dickhead with his frat boy dickhead friends...so I mean....what did you raise?

This story is the biggest reason why guns are more dangerous than people think about.  You can have all the safety training in the world, but you get into a situation when you feel things are out of control and you start shooting without realizing what you've done until the shooting ends.

Sad situation all around.

[ari333]

On 9/16/2017 at 7:20 PM, walnutqueen said:

No!!! How did I miss this?  (Suck it, DVR!).

Maybe it is on ON Demand or youtube or something. There was a smallish 18 yr old. He wandered (this may be the wrong word) into a frat situation and they ganged up on him. He made it to his car where he had a gun. One dude is dead and others shot. IIRC one was shot in the back . I could be wrong . I have already deleted it. I watch a lot  of crime shows and get them confused. Anyway, the guy was outnumbered, but once he got to his car and got his gun from the glove box,  I wonder if there was some overkill there.  If it were me I'd get in the car since I'm there and drive away fast. 

[pigs-in-space]

Yeah, that was one where I definitely do not think it was first degree murder, but some version of manslaughter most likely.  I do think Steven Jones (the shooter) was scared that both he and his two friends would get physically assaulted further.  He may have been in genuine fear for his life, too.  Looking at it rationally after the event it's easy to say he shouldn't have been scared, but in that moment with adrenaline pumping I can certainly believe that he thought his  life or his friends' lives were in danger.  The frat guys, as nice and wholesome as they looked in the interviews and in the courtroom, were drunk and belligerent and I probably would've been scared too.

But he should not have pulled his gun out of the car, and apparently in his testimony he said he was worried that if he got in his car the guys would break his window and pull him out, which seems a bit over-the-top.  He should've gotten in his car and called the police and not tried to be a hero and rescue his friends. 

This wasn't a pleasant episode because I really didn't like anyone and there wasn't a good "side" to pick.  I felt bad for the parents of the boy who died, but just shrugging your shoulders and basically saying "oh boys will be boys" (paraphrasing) for bad behavior is not a good look and I'm sick of hearing people make excuses for boys' wild behavior like it's a natural thing.  And yet I also didn't mind them blaming the shooter's parents - they were right that he was taught to shoot and given a gun by his parents.  If he hadn't had a gun he would've run away and called the cops, the frat boys likely would've been arrested for assaulting the three guys, and this would have been a very, very different story. 

I think this is an interesting one to compare to another case where the shooter claimed self-defense - the older guy who was covered by Dateline who sat in his basement and killed two teenagers who broke in.  That one I 100% believed it was cold-blooded murder and that the guy set the burglars up and had planned to shoot them no matter what happened.  (Him talking about how he did a nice clean "kill shot" to the girl as she lay injured and unarmed on the floor of his basement will never not haunt me.)  In this case I think it is not nearly so cut-and-dry, yet I still don't think Steven Jones was completely justified. 

[ari333]

I was multi tasking; I missed the part where the shooter had two friends with him.  Did the two friends testify?  I recall the frat boys in court.