S02.E08: Appropriately Sized Pots

[David T. Cole]

Piper faces a new backlash over special privileges; Caputo feels pressure to toughen up, resulting in administrative changes.

[Happy to be here]

Pornstache ia back in the building.

 

I Genuinely enjoyed the conversation between Nicky and Fischer.

 

So Cancer lady's name is Rosa.  I never knew that....and we get to see her story,  Bank Robber and the boy she was talking to lives.  

 

Litchfield really is falling apart isn't it?

[Mya Stone]

This episode was stellar. I loved seeing Rosa's backstory. I might have had an allergy attack when the kid told her he was in remission.

Poor Fischer. I really liked her. I loved her convo with Nicky too.

And...Oh my god. Pornstache and the Mini Mullet of Doom.

[debi49]

Most unrealistic thing in this whole series: Susan getting fired from a government job. And for doing nothing. And Pornstache, who was caught banging an inmate, is back.

[MizStaken]

Yeah I thought that was a bit odd too. Are the guards not unionized? And I can believe that they might let Mendez come back to work but definitely not where he would be in direct contact with his "victim".

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Damn I was starting to believe that Rosa was really some kind of black widow. Once is sad. Twice is scary. Thank goodness it didn't happen a third time.

When Brook started crying about having to shower, I thought that we would find out she had a huge scar on her back or something but nope, she just hates water?

I loved that Nicky told Susan that getting fired was the best thing that ever happened to her. Part of me liked that she was so soft with the girls, especially after they put up with Pornstache for so long. But the other part of me is glad that she's getting out because she was not cut out for this job and it was only a matter of time before it fucked her up beyond repair.

I thought it was stupid of Piper to try to give back her furlough. Everyone already hates her. Not leaving wouldn't miraculously make them stop hating her. In fact, it would probably make them hate her more for being stupid enough not to leave for 48 hours when given the opportunity.

Edited June 8, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Brn2bwild]

I wonder if Fischer's termination will lead to some bizarre situation where she gets into trouble on the outside and ends up behind bars the next season.  She did tell Piper that there wasn't much separating them re their backgrounds.

[ApathyMonger]

I wonder if Fischer's termination will lead to some bizarre situation where she gets into trouble on the outside and ends up behind bars the next season.  She did tell Piper that there wasn't much separating them re their backgrounds.

 

Lauren Lapkus is in an awful-looking TBS sitcom, so she probably won't be available for much.

[Brn2bwild]

Wow, you're right, that does look bad.  If (when) it gets cancelled, she can always return...!

[bravelittletoaster]

When Brook started crying about having to shower, I thought that we would find out she had a huge scar on her back or something but nope, she just hates water?

 

Same.  I was waiting for the big reveal and stared at her naked body more than I really needed to just because I thought she was hiding something.

 

I loved that Nicky told Susan that getting fired was the best thing that ever happened to her. Part of me liked that she was so soft with the girls, especially after they put up with Pornstache for so long. But the other part of me is glad that she's getting out because she was not cut out for this job and it was only a matter of time before it fucked her up beyond repair.

 

Also loved their conversation and the callback to Nicky's earlier half-assed attempt to seduce her.  I'm digging how Nicky has settled into her role as the "junkie philosopher" as Yoga Jones called her in the pilot.  I know she's been cast in some NBC pilot and I reeeeally hope it doesn't mean we're losing the character next year, but that's getting a bit ahead of myself I know.

 

I thought it was stupid of Piper to try to give back her furlough. Everyone already hates her. Not leaving wouldn't miraculously make them stop hating her. In fact, it would probably make them hate her more for being stupid enough not to leave for 48 hours when given the opportunity.

 

But I think it was a perfectly typical "damned if you do, damned if you don't" Piper situation that's not really her fault but that she gets a lot of hate for.  Piper was well within her rights to ask for furlough.  And everyone else was perfectly justified in resenting that she got it when they didn't.  But when she tried to give it back I was just like, "God, NO, Piper, fuck those guys."  I knew she'd do that and I was glad Healy for once was a good counselor, as she pointed out, and gave her the talking to she needed.  I still think a big part of the reason he helped her out was his own guilt in almost getting her killed, which the rest of the prison will never understand.  But I was also glad that didn't come up. He had a great speech there.

 

Sorry, not to stalk your entire post, but you just touched on all the same things I wanted to talk about.

 

When Piper's grandmother was sick in the book she also campaigned for furlough and did not, irl, get it.  I don't remember if I cried at other parts of the book, but I know I did when she learned her grandma died and she would always have to live with the guilt and shame that it was her fault she wasn't there when she did.  It's a real turning point in the story and in her accepting her responsibility for her actions.  So ever since I was spoiled that they were using that plot point this season I've been really curious to see how it would play out. When I realized from shooting spoilers that Chapman was going to get furlough I was disappointed, because the fact that she doesn't in the book is so important and so wrenching.  But I see they're kind of handling it here in a way so they can have their cake [it doesn't come in time] and eat it too [she does still have furlough, so they can now tell a story about that.]  Very curious to see how the next ep plays out.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I agree that this was one of those rare times that Healy was really a counselor instead of a paper pusher. He was a bit forceful with Piper, but she needed to hear what he said. Why would she give up the opportunity to say goodbye to her grandmother in a useless attempt to appease a bunch of people who didn't like her to begin with and like her even less now? It was nice to see Healy actually counsel her and give her some good advice.

[Skittl1321]

I think Brooke was crying so much because it represented loss of control. 

She had this weirdly upbeat attitude toward the prison, and part of that was going about her normal "I lived in a tree for 8 months" hippie lifestyle that apparently didn't include deodorant or bathing.  Since she was having sex with someone early in the season, I don't think it was exposure that was the problem (though I guess that was just to one person, not the whole bathroom.)

[snowblossom2]

It took me the longest time to figure out that we were seeing Rosa's backstory because I could have sworn her present day self was Russian while the flashback her was Latina.

[Skittl1321]

I thought her flashback self was Italian (though I don't know what language they were speaking- was that Spanish?) but I also thought her present self was Russian.

 

The two accents seemed to be a HUGE mistake. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I would have to go back and rewatch to be sure but I'm 99% sure that they were speaking Spanish (not Italian) in the flashbacks.

[bravelittletoaster]

They can sound pretty similar, though.  

[junemeatcleaver]

Piper only works as an annoying, super embodiment of white privliage for me.  As a character, I still don't care much for her except when the other women are reacting to her shit.

 

I liked Rosa's backstory.  And her accent sounds more like Scarface's than Russian imo.

 

They better have a good explanation for the return of Pornstache, because there's only so much belief I can suspend.

[snowblossom2]

I'm pretty sure it was Spanish and not Italian bc I understand some Spanish...but they are similar sowouldneed a re watch

[millennium]

Crazy Eyes is more annoying than usual this season (sorry, I was never a fan).   Gone from "I threw my pie for you" to "I threw my pie AT you."   For me, that scene evoked the sharpest emotional response of the whole episode.   I wanted Piper to go for her throat.   Of course, that wouldn't have turned out very well for Piper.

 

The trouble I'm having with the Vee storyline is that Vee doesn't seem to merit the control she exerts over her followers.   So far, she's about as menacing as a Survivor "villain."  Are the black girls really that weak to so easily fall in line?  Even Poussey seems to be sampling the Kool Aid.

[bravelittletoaster]

I think she uses a combination of menace and manipulation.  The control she's exerting over the other "tribes" is mostly at this point via manipulation, but I think there is a threat of violence against would-be unruly members of her own tribe bubbling under the surface.  

 

I have been distressed to see the transformation in Crazy Eyes and Taystee [in very different ways], but I also think the hold Vee has on each of them makes sense, too.  It disappoints me, especially in Suzanne who I did/do like, but I think it follows in each of their cases knowing their particular pasts and issues.  They're definitely not just about fodder for humorous gif sets anymore.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm pretty sure it was Spanish and not Italian bc I understand some Spanish...but they are similar sowouldneed a re watch

I'm the opposite - I know Italian and it's used pretty rarely on tv so I usually recognize it when I hear it. I still haven't had time to rewatch to check but my ears didn't perk up with recognition during Rosa's flashbacks.

[Skittl1321]

We looked up the origins of Rosa's last name, and the name is Spanish- so I think I was wrong thinking the language was Italian. Maybe it was just a more continental Spanish than I am used to hearing.

 

Either way, it wasn't Russian, which is what I thought the older Rosa was :)

Edited June 10, 2014 by Skittl1321

[Portia]

My husband thought maybe Rosa was Cuban? But I don't know, he may have just pulled that out of his butt.  ;-)

[kitcloudkicker]

I saw someone else online mention Cuban, and for some reason that made a lot of sense to me based on how she was styled in her flashbacks. (Hopefully I am not horribly stereotyping Cubans. But it was in a retro-cool kind of way!)

[AliceL]

It was Spanish, but it did actually sound more continental. The Rosa story line this week was so sweet and wrong. I think the show does a good job of making you like people you shouldn't while not giving everyone a tragic back story. Like with Morello, who seems one of the nicer girls, you come to find out her crime is actually more violent than Gloria's, who was defrauding the government.

I don't have a problem with Vee taking over; I think there was a power vacuum that she stepped into. The white girls have Red or Leanne, the latina girls have Gloria, the black girls needed a leader.

[millennium]

I use the subtitle option throughout the show and in Rosa's flashbacks, the subtitles say "(speaking Spanish)"

[millennium]

The control she's exerting over the other "tribes" is mostly at this point via manipulation, but I think there is a threat of violence against would-be unruly members of her own tribe bubbling under the surface.  

 

 

There is that, yes.   Physically she seems large and intimidating.   Masculine in her posture and movements.   I wonder if that's a persona she assumes for prison; she wasn't that same hulking presence in the Taystee flashbacks. 

[Helena Dax]

I'm Spanish and yeah, they were speaking Spanish. I didn't recognize the accent, though.

 

I know I'll regret my words next episode but I was glad to see Mendez. He's a character I love to hate. 

 

Loved the conversation between Nicky and Susan. Nicky's right: Susan's too kind for that job and we mean it as a compliment. 

 

I like Piper and I like her role in the show. She makes it richer, like any other inmate. To me, she's like Joel Fleischman in Nothern Exposure; Cicely was full of fascinating, interesting characters, but having the chance to play the fish-out-of-water card with Joel made the show better. 

[DangerousMinds]

Question for you all - has it been your experience that all Spanish-speaking people are referred to as "Spanish?" I lived in California for 15+ years and worked mostly in social services, and we always used "Latino/a" for those from Latin American, and "Spanish" for Europeans. Now I'm thinking I really missed something!

[bravelittletoaster]

I don't think you're "Spanish" unless you come from Spain...?

[Lovecat]

I can't speak for @Helena Dax, but I know in the book, the Hispanic inmates called themselves the Spanish mamis, even though they were a mixture of Puerto Rican, Dominican, Colombian, etc. It may just be one of those prison slang things, but on the outside yes, usually it's more accurate to say Hispanic or Latino/a for people who are not actually from Spain.

[Helena Dax]

I'm Spanish from Spain. Maybe in  prison it's different, but the Latino girls I know would never call themselves Spanish.  In fact, most of them would never  use Hispanic either. 

[Red Fields]

I heard flashback Rosa call one of the guys papi so I figured she was part of the hispanic group. But present day Rosa? I didn't know her name and could not make out her accent, also thinking it sounded Russian. Because of that I thought the flashback was for the kitchen woman who has the fewest lines. It wasn't until the boy finds out he is in remission that I realized it was for the older chemo woman! I also then realized the cars they were driving in the bank robbery scenes were pretty old.

[RealityGal]

Damn I was starting to believe that Rosa was really some kind of black widow. Once is sad. Twice is scary. Thank goodness it didn't happen a third time.

When Brook started crying about having to shower, I thought that we would find out she had a huge scar on her back or something but nope, she just hates water?

I thought it was stupid of Piper to try to give back her furlough. Everyone already hates her. Not leaving wouldn't miraculously make them stop hating her. In fact, it would probably make them hate her more for being stupid enough not to leave for 48 hours when given the opportunity.

 

I bet that when we see Brook's backstory, it will all somehow be explained.  And yes, Piper was dumb for trying to give back her furlough, but I sort of understood, on an emotional level

 

Crazy Eyes is more annoying than usual this season (sorry, I was never a fan).   Gone from "I threw my pie for you" to "I threw my pie AT you."   For me, that scene evoked the sharpest emotional response of the whole episode.   I wanted Piper to go for her throat.   Of course, that wouldn't have turned out very well for Piper.

 

The trouble I'm having with the Vee storyline is that Vee doesn't seem to merit the control she exerts over her followers.   So far, she's about as menacing as a Survivor "villain."  Are the black girls really that weak to so easily fall in line?  Even Poussey seems to be sampling the Kool Aid.

 

I don't think its weakness, but I think a lot of them maybe haven't grown up with a lot of love or strong mother figures.  Vee is a very manipulative mother figure.  She sees that Suzanne feels left out, and she always has, and she becomes someone who not only makes Suzanne part of the group, but an IMPORTANT part of the group.  Tastyee never had a mother and so Vee is the closest thing she has.  I think Watsons story was from last season, but I remember her being disgraced as a track star, and I don't remember a strong family there for her.  Cindy just seems like she is a disappointment to her mother.  They are a group of lost girls.  As for Poussay,

she is the only one that seems to not have much interest in Vee, and I think thats because she seems to have a pretty strong family background.

 

Lauren Lapkus is in an awful-looking TBS sitcom, so she probably won't be available for much.

whoa!  I couldn't even make it through the entire 2 minute teaser.  If those are the best jokes they got, maybe they have 5 episodes in them.  

[radishcake]

I laughed out loud at Bitchin Camaro by the Dead Milkmen at the end! Man I still love that song. :D

[DangerousMinds]

Me too, radishcake, that song brought a huge smile to my face!

[Kel Varnsen]

Most unrealistic thing in this whole series: Susan getting fired from a government job. And for doing nothing. And Pornstache, who was caught banging an inmate, is back.

I thought that was crap too. I almost laughed when Fig said she was worried about a sexual harassment lawsuit. What about a wrongful termination lawsuit, considering that she was fired for cause with essentially no warning, and no documentation of her past poor performance.

[Skittl1321]

I actually thought Susan was going to be fired because Morello mentioned the previous epsidode she brought her a candy bar and a Coke.

 

So it wouldn't have been difficult to document a reason to fire her.  But of course, they didn't.  And yeah- government jobs just don't work that way.

[bravelittletoaster]

Well, they needed to get rid of her, and I'm glad they didn't kill her off, so.  It seemed to me they were trying to leave the door open in case the actor's other project fails [which it kind of looks like it will.]

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Well, they needed to get rid of her, and I'm glad they didn't kill her off, so.  It seemed to me they were trying to leave the door open in case the actor's other project fails [which it kind of looks like it will.]

 

Yeah that looked dreadful. I hope she has the opportunity to come back!

[DrSpaceman]

So I guess its debatable if the kid was lying or telling the truth at the end about being in remission.  I asssumed he was lying, but I guess he could have been crying over tears of joy with his mom

 

I guess Morello's 3 hour van ride from earlier makes a little more sense now, they were supposed to be checking on her every hour.  Still find it hard to believe you leave a criminal in a van for even an hour unsupervised, but makes a little more sense than 3 hours. 

 

I too am glad about the speech where Fischer was told she was lucky to be fired

 

PORNSTACHE IS BACK!!!  He is such a great character to hate. 

 

I have always thought Healy gets kind of a bad rap on the show.  He really does care about the girls, he is just powerless at times to do anything about it due to him not being high enough in the chain of command.  Its kind of the same with his wife as well.  Yes their situation is kind of weird, but he does try with her and just gets rejected.  I truly think he means well, he just can't show it all the time like he did with Piper in this episode. 

 

If Rosa is meant to be spanish that is weird because I agree I thought she was Russian, but the story was still good outside of that

Edited June 13, 2014 by DrSpaceman

[Kel Varnsen]

So I guess its debatable if the kid was lying or telling the truth at the end about being in remission.  I asssumed he was lying, but I guess he could have been crying over tears of joy with his mom

 

I guess Morello's 3 hour van ride from earlier makes a little more sense now, they were supposed to be checking on her every hour.  Still find it hard to believe you leave a criminal in a van for even an hour unsupervised, but makes a little more sense than 3 hours. 

 

I think the kid was telling the truth. Not sure why he would be lying, especially from a storytelling point of view.

 

As for the thing with Morello in the car after seeing some future episodes it totally makes sense.  I mean if

Chapman can get a furlough for 48 hours without any kind of escort, or even an ankle monitor, when with her families wealth and connections around the world she has to be a massive flight risk (especially after Chapman recently spent a month in solitary), I can totally see how someone with years of good behavior would be allowed to sit in a car for a few hours without supervision.

[DrSpaceman]

The reason for the kid to lie would be so Rosa doesn't feel like she doomed him with her curse of the conspirators all dying

[Desperately Random]

The reason for the kid to lie would be so Rosa doesn't feel like she doomed him with her curse of the conspirators all dying

I don't think the kid was lying. I also don't think he knew about the curse. Rosa told him about her partners in crimes dying but I seriously doubt she told him she thought she had cursed them. I don't see her telling that to this kid since it is something very private that she would keep to herself. Also, you can tell the kid had no idea what she is talking about when she brings up "the curse".

I think it's safe to say the kid is in remission.

[ganesh]

When Brook started crying about having to shower, I thought that we would find out she had a huge scar on her back or something but nope, she just hates water?

I lived in a tree for 8 months" hippie lifestyle that apparently didn't include deodorant or bathing.

I guess. But she didn't really have an answer for everyone in the laundry room when they told her to take a shower, and she's a total motormouth, so I'm surprised she didn't say anything. It didn't take up too much screen time, but it was weird. 

 

The trouble I'm having with the Vee storyline is that Vee doesn't seem to merit the control she exerts over her followers.

 

The control she's exerting over the other "tribes" is mostly at this point via manipulation, but I think there is a threat of violence against would-be unruly members of her own tribe bubbling under the surface.

I get the whole mother figure, but I'm still not buying it. I do get that she's running the cigarette business and they are falling in line because they're making money, or stamps or whatever, so they want in and they stfu and do their jobs. Prior, however, even Taystee was rolling her eyes about how everything "back in my day" was. I'm not buying the violence threat as real though. I think a few of them could give her a beat down. I wouldn't put it past Vee to have a shiv hidden in her mattress. But if they all just cut her out, I don't see what she can do in response. She's got no other allies. 

 

I still think a big part of the reason he helped her out was his own guilt in almost getting her killed, which the rest of the prison will never understand. 

Oh I don't think there's any doubt of that. I almost wanted Piper to smash Suz's face into her tray after throwing the pie. The PA-ing was getting overly much.

 

I don't buy the firing either, especially since she had a higher shot quota than everyone else. That's a slam dunk grievance to file with the union. They should have just had her get fed up with Caputo or being berated by Fig and quit. 

 

I thought she had a contract for multiple seasons.

 

IIRC from an EW article, I don't think they do. I think JK said it's year to year and she does was she can to work everyone in as best as possible. She was saying that a lot of the actors are in demand now because S1 was so successful. Which was part of her motivation for the ensemble cast. 

[kieyra]

I've been holding off on the Rosa's accent debate because I want to test something and I haven't had time: I want to listen to her accent with my eyes closed. 

 

I'm wondering if part of the reason people are hearing her accent a little strangely is because she looks so otherworldly, post-chemo (bald head, no eyebrows, etc).

 

And she speaks in a low, gruff register that is somewhat reminiscent of Red's voice, without actually sounding like a Russian accent either. So without any visual cues as to her ethnicity, PLUS her voice 'sort of' sounds like Red's...I think that's how people are arriving at Russian/eastern European. But I suspect her accenting actually is Latin in essence.

 

Did we get any cues as to where Young Rosa was committing her robberies?

[luckyroll3]

I live in Miami and flashback Rosa's accent definitely pinged Cuban.  I was very confused for a bit, as like many others, I thought Rosa was Russian. 

 

Did we get any cues as to where Young Rosa was committing her robberies?

 

I thought they were in Miami.  Many of the banks they mentioned (First National, City National, etc.) are well known locally founded banks, but who knows.

 

The scene when they kind out the kid was in remission was so heartwarming....it made me misty.

[kissedbyarose]

Did we get any cues as to where Young Rosa was committing her robberies?

Definitely Queens, NY. They mentioned driving down Steinway and a bank job in Bayside during the second flashback.

(Plus I got the sense that the flashbacks for most of the characters occur in NYC.)

[bluedevilblue]

I was thrown at first by Fischer getting fired and then I realized she was relatively new. My guess (wank?) is that maybe she was in her probation period. The typical federal protections don't apply during the probation period - it's much, much easier to just fire someone. Pornstache, OTOH, probably has fully vested rights. Doesn't mean he couldn't - and shouldn't - be fired, but you'd need supervisors who actually wanted to get rid of him and it seems that Fig doesn't.

Less realistic to me is the idea that Caputo somehow does the recruiting and hiring. Usually federal hiring for a job like corrections officer would be centralized.

Also, where the hell is the warden? He's not the President. He's just a prison warden, it's a big job, but one that usually, you know, involves running a prison. It seems weird that he's never seen or heard from.

[ganesh]

I think that's the joke. You never hear about the warden only what they decide or say secondhand. Like potus on Veep.