S02.E06: You Also Have A Pizza

[David T. Cole]

Love is in the air as the inmates prepare for a Valentine's Day party; Red makes an intriguing new discovery. Larry asks Piper to be his prison mole.

[Happy to be here]

I love you Netflix.  Lesbian sex scene that goes on for more then a second that is actually kinda hot.  

 

A broken hearted Poussey just ain't right.  

 

I want my own Moppet!  

 

ITs actually a pretty good description of Larry and Piper.  The Moon and the Sun.   The moon doesn't have its own light but you can walk on it.  The sun is bright as fuck but you burn if you get too close.  

 

And also a good description of Alex and Larry.  Manipulative, gorgeous psychopath ex and the sweet, kind, unfocused fiancee.  

 

Say what you will about Red but she is resourcefull.

[AmyTinaMindy]

I had been waiting since last season to see Poussey's backstory, but that was so sad. And in the present day, she was pushing Taystee away just like she did with her German girlfriend. I loved that her dad defended her to the other girl's dad. He prevented her from shooting him, so did they ever hint at or say what she is actually in jail for? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awwwww, poor Poussey. I loved that her dad told the German dad that there's nothing wrong with her.

It's interesting to see that Poussey is breaking from Taystee and her group at the same time that Pennsatuckey is breaking away from her former group. While I don't blame Leanne & co for being tired of her grandstanding, she's been calm and quiet since her time in the SHU. I don't think Leanne will be an effective leader but it's interesting that she has decided that's what she wants.

[Happy to be here]

While I don't blame Leanne & co for being tired of her grandstanding, she's been calm and quiet since her time in the SHU. I don't think Leanne will be an effective leader but it's interesting that she has decided that's what she wants.

 

 

Its interesting that the blacks and hispanics are banding together while the two white groups are falling apart.   Red has lost her grip on power of her group and they refuse (with good reason) to forgive her and the same with Pennsatuckey and her group.  Leanne likes the quiet and her new power and their is no one to lead Red's group which leaves a pretty big power vacuum among the whites.  I wonder who is going to grab for it?  

Edited June 7, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[Mya Stone]

I can't believe I audibly "aww'd" when Pennsyltucky reached out and hugged Healey. She's not nearly as bad when she's not pontificating about Jesus. 

[saltylemon]

Two things. 1. I would have appreciated some subtitles in this episode for all of the German. 2. I love Poussey!!

[ApathyMonger]

Two things. 1. I would have appreciated some subtitles in this episode for all of the German. 2. I love Poussey!!

 

Like I posted in the S02E05 thread, there were definitely subtitles in the version I watched.

[saltylemon]

I suppose it must depend on your streaming device. That's a bummer.

[ApathyMonger]

Yeah, I was watching on Netflix UK, using the website (hooked up to my TV), if that helps.

[saltylemon]

Thanks for the info! It looks like I'll have to rewatch the foreign language heavy episodes again via other methods.

[Pixel]

I watched mine on Netflix via both my iPad and my Xbox, and had subtitles with no problem. That's a bummer you're having problems! Very frustrating.

[Brn2bwild]

I finally rewatched this episode and Ep 5 on my computer, which showed the subtitles.  Makes a huge difference to actually know what they're saying!

[bravelittletoaster]

Maybe y'all can play with the settings on your devices if you're not getting subtitles.  But it's definitely on your end.  

 

 

 

ITs actually a pretty good description of Larry and Piper.  The Moon and the Sun.   The moon doesn't have its own light but you can walk on it.  The sun is bright as fuck but you burn if you get too close. 

And also a good description of Alex and Larry.  Manipulative, gorgeous psychopath ex and the sweet, kind, unfocused fiancee.

 

Yeah, both the metaphor and the descriptors seemed pretty apt.  I like Chapman's continued umbrage that she was only rated 3 points in the sex game.  I'm also glad Boo and Nicky both tired of it, but it was cute while it lasted it [it wasn't as in your face as I was kind of afraid it would be when I first read about it.] 

 

I'm intrigued as to what they're doing with 'tucky.  At this point I have no idea where they're going with her, but I'm curious to find out.  

 

I'd forgotten about the senile prisoner who wandered off, but had kind of been expecting a dire ending for her and was bracing myself for that.  Caputo seeing her in the audience in the bar was hilarious.  I was really happy they didn't find her dead of exposure.

 

And I spoke too soon in the last episode thread about how they weren't focusing too much on Daya and Bennett so far, but at least he's getting blackmailed.  I really need for the bloom to be off that rose, personally.  I tend to agree with Kerman's issues on how it's played out so far. 

 

Finally I'm interested in what to me feels like a stark change in Taystee's character this season.  My impression has always been that the reason she was a stated "fan favorite" was her exuberance and irrepressible nature that was so present in season 1.  This season it's almost like they've re-written her.  I understand it's probably meant to demonstrate the effect Vee has on her, but I kind of hope the Taystee of old makes a comeback at some point.  She's certainly not the gifable girl she was last year.  Not that they don't have a right to take the character more seriously, because of course they do.  But I'm surprised they've gotten away from her more bankable assets.

Edited June 8, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[debi49]

The young women who plays Poussey is absolutely gorgeous!!! Definitely my favorite character.

[heatherchandler]

I still don't understand why Poussey is in jail.

Has Piper Kerman spoken out about the Bennett/Daya romance?

[ApathyMonger]

I still don't understand why Poussey is in jail.

 

I don't think they've ever mentioned it.

[egavasc]

I don't think they've ever mentioned it.

I think it's

selling pot. Poussey and Taystee drop a line about it at some point but I'm not sure which episode it's in. But as far as I can tell that's the only thing they've mentioned.

[bravelittletoaster]

Has Piper Kerman spoken out about the Bennett/Daya romance?

Not a lot, but yeah.  She's not a fan of how she feels like a guard/prisoner relationship was romanticized.  I don't think she would have really led with that, but I read an interview with her where it came up, and she allowed that that was the thing that gave her the most reservations about the show [not the changes to Piper's character, which I think was how they got on the subject.]

[RandomX]

I liked the scene with Flaca & Maritza where they start making out, thrn cracking up as they realize it isn't their thing. Nicely done with both characters.

[lumibutterfly]

I was afraid the old woman would find up freezing to death; very glad they went with the comedic ending instead. 

 

It's also nice that this season has been showing more backstory on the characters that isn't focused on their crime. We saw that with Suzanne as well.

[SaabStory]

I am about half way through the season. Love the addition of Vee.  LT is a fantastic villian. I can't really see the storyline lasting more than this season though. It seems like it is full-throttle already.  I miss Poussey and Taystee's "fun/light" friendship. But I guess that is the point of Vee. I am enjoying the increase in time for Gloria and the latinas in the kitchen.  Nicky is officially my favorite character.  She is like Zoey from Nurse Jackie.  She gets a lot of great one liners.

 

But, I miss Alex. And I miss the Alex/Piper fucked up relationship and dynamic.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't miss the Alex/Piper relationship because it's so toxic and lopsided. They are both so much better off without each other.

 

I loved that scene of Flaca and Mauritza drunkenly trying to make out and then laughing because they aren't attracted to each other.

 

I laughed (and gave a sigh of relief) when Jimmy showed up at the bar instead of freezing to death, but I also laughed because of the look on Caputo's face. That was a huge screw up on multiple people's parts that she was able to get out and he knew that Figueroa was going to have a shit fit about it.

[bravelittletoaster]

I really like the expanded screen time for Gloria, too. She was my favorite from the Latina crew last year and I like that you have this three way power dynamic between her, Vee and Red.

I miss Alex, too, though. As I've progressed through the season I've been kind of counting down to her episodes, which I don't want to have to do. After I finish that's it for another year, so I haven't wanted to rush through them. But I want to see Alex again.  

 

ETA: I'm curious--anyone out there speak German?  I was just wondering what Samira's accent sounds like--like is she a good [probably real life] speaker of German, or did she likely just learn those lines for the show, or what?  My guess would be she must speak German irl and they decided to use that in Poussey's backstory, but was just wondering if anyone knew?  Normally I'd google to find out but I'm not done with the season yet so am judiciously avoiding googling anything Orange related...

Edited June 9, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[myril]

ETA: I'm curious--anyone out there speak German?  I was just wondering what Samira's accent sounds like--like is she a good [probably real life] speaker of German, or did she likely just learn those lines for the show, or what?  My guess would be she must speak German irl and they decided to use that in Poussey's backstory, but was just wondering if anyone knew?  Normally I'd google to find out but I'm not done with the season yet so am judiciously avoiding googling anything Orange related...

 

Samira's German is quite good. Sounded even better than one of my USAmerican cousins (German mother, they spend a few years in Germany, their father working for the army; I myself am German). But have found no information so far, where she learned it. Nina Rausch, who plays Poussey's friend Franziska is German.

[Skittl1321]

Poussey only needs to sound like an American speaking German though. So her accent doesn't need to sound like a native German.

 

She sure spoke better German than most of the Americans I know stationed there...

[ChocButterfly]

I liked the episode, but looking at the Poussey's back story it doesn't make much sense with her current character. I mean, she came from a nice home, she has international experiences, hell she even speaks German!; how is it that she can't even speak English well? All this time you would have thought she grew up in conditions like Taystee, because of the way she acts and talks, and she seemed to have nowhere to go after prison, just like Taystee. But the girl has a nice loving father that works in the military, WTF? Why does she act like she's some orphan who used to belong to a gang???

And her slang just makes it worst for me, since she even knows several languages. You could say the slang is a deliberate choice of hers, but then she wouldn't be using it all the time, would she? The girl can't even conjugate verbs properly for god's sake! Taystee talks way better than her and had a real troublesome childhood. And I say this as a non native English speaker, so she makes probably even more grammatical mistakes that I can catch.

 

Do some people really talk like that apart from gang members and rappers on TV?? Cuz I've been to the US and had never met anyone who talk like that.

Edited June 9, 2014 by ChocButterfly

[bravelittletoaster]

I think it's called code-switching?  I mean, people devote a lot of time to studying this, but in a nutshell many people use different accents/dialects when they're speaking in/to different groups.  I think in particular among minorities.  Exactly how well would it go over if Poussey walked into Litchfield and talked like Piper?  I don't think the point is that she's incapable of articulating herself in that way.  In fact we see Poussey and Taystee imitate the speech of upper middle class white people to pretty hilarious effect in season one.  Clearly they can talk that way if they want to, and if it would behove them to do so.  Doesn't seem like it would though in the Litch.

 

ETA: Maybe that's something that's fairly unique to America, though I would think in England, where social class is really closely tied to accents, that some of that goes on there, too.  

 

ETA2: It occurs to me that another example of code-switching is Piper's famous "Bitches gots to learn."

Edited June 9, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[bluebonnet]

Yes, people really do speak in the style Taystee, Poussey and others of their group speak.  Colloquial speech is fairly typical for most people.  For example, the way I speak with my friends is different from the way I speak with my parents which is in turn different from the way I speak with my co-workers and different again from the way I speak with my students.  In a typical day, I switch several times between informal and formal speech and have different ways of expressing myself informally and also formally.  I think it's a normal instinct for us to want our language patterns to match with the group we are with at the moment.  In a prison setting, it's sort of expected that members of a 'tribe' will do what they can to really limit qualities that could potentially mark them as an outsider.  

 

I think it was implied that Poussey's life after Germany went downhill a bit.  She started dealing pot and, considering the woman she sent Taystee to, she seemed to have gotten involved with seedy folks.  I don't think it would be unusual if her parents had decided to stop supporting her when her rebellions turned from smoking cigarettes at her window to dealing drugs.  

[kitcloudkicker]

NPR did a decent intro to code switching a few months ago, if anyone's interested http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/04/08/176064688/how-code-switching-explains-the-world

 

Someone told me Samira speaks German, and then they wrote that into the character based off of that. I haven't verified though. 

[ChocButterfly]

Yeah, I understand colloquial speech, but what Poussey does is more than colloquial. Also, she does it all the time, even when speaking to counselors, where she should be at least trying to pretend she's not a thug. You'd think that when she's being very serious and angsty, she would drop the slang, but she doesn't. It's like she really doesn't know how to talk.

 

Plus, that episode when Taystee got out of prison, Poussey acted like she was in the same situation and seemed also so abandoned, as if she came also from a very disadvantage environment, which she doesn't. Which makes me think she's only pretending. So she makes fun of Piper for being privileged, but she's also privileged, maybe not as rich as Piper, but certainly not like the runner and Taystee.

 

Thing is, Poussey was one of my favorite characters, and I still like her, but that whole reveal of her back story made me think of her as a poser, like some those rappers who act all tough like thugs just to seem "real", when they are really middle class preppy guys. 

[ridethemaverick]

Well the way Poussey or any other person speaks has nothing to do with being a thug, but beyond that point, why would she pretend? She's in prison (and did something to get there). She basically is a thug, along with Piper and Taystee and every other woman in Litchfield.

[Skittl1321]

 

Also, she does it all the time

The only situation we've seen her in is prison. Even when she talks to the counselors, she is putting on face. Don't remember what epsiode this was in, but spoiler just in case:

As she says in Safe Place- considering the real feelings might be too hard. So she is ALWAYS in character in prison.

  If we put her in a Harvard literature class and she speaks like that, then we an assume it isn't code-switching.

 

Whether she is a poser or not- I guess I can't tell based on the information we have. All we know is she was a troubled military brat who  started dealing pot. No idea what else she got messed up with. She very well might have been in a gang or a real street thug. They haven't told us yet.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Skittl1321

[kitcloudkicker]

I don't know, like others have said, the Germany flashbacks look to have been high school Poussey, and we don't really know what happened between then and now. She may have gone enough off the rails for her family to abandon or disown her, she could no longer have anyone or anywhere to turn to. She may have been functioning in whatever environment long enough for the speech patterns to become her default identity. I also don't see how she'd have the motivation to present herself any differently to counselors, they're all part of the prison world she's had to adapt to to survive. We still don't really know enough about her to make that call, but there's plenty of plausible explanations for the way she presents herself. (And black colloquial speech patterns do not necessarily = "thug")

 

(There's also the possibility that she wasn't fleshed out as fully when earlier episodes were written, making some things slightly inconsistent now that they've decided to feature her a bit more - that does happen sometimes on series when a character ends up popping more than you had originally planned.) 

[bravelittletoaster]

(There's also the possibility that she wasn't fleshed out as fully when earlier episodes were written, making some things slightly inconsistent now that they've decided to feature her a bit more - that does happen sometimes on series when a character ends up popping more than you had originally planned.)

 

Yeah, that's a good point.  Samira could have made some choices about her character earlier on that maybe are slightly inconsistent with backstory that was filled in later.  I was surprised when I heard they get scripts one at a time, because Alex and Piper were one instance where subsequent backstory belied many of our earlier impressions of them.  I think the actors might often be in the same boat as us, having certain assumptions about their characters that are somewhat undermined later on by flashbacks.

[bluebonnet]

I don't recall this scene where Poussey claimed to be an orphan.  What episode was this?

[ChocButterfly]

She basically is a thug, along with Piper and Taystee and every other woman in Litchfield.

Aww, no, I don't think they are. Specially Taystee, she's actually very nice, she just made mistakes in life, but she was kind of forced to. Piper is just an idiot.

 

(And black colloquial speech patterns do not necessarily = "thug")

I don't mind the black colloquial, she can say "Yo", all she wants, I even say it, same as many other expressions, like the "Bitches gotta learn", which I loved. It's the grammatical errors, verb conjugations, etc; which don't sound colloquial, but uninformed. I have taken English classes and I have made those mistakes, because I didn't know how to speak English. Do you know how many times the teachers told us never to make a double negative in English or is "You were" not "was"? That's like level 1 grammar. We foreigners still make some mistakes all the time, but I didn't think an English speaker would make them even worst than us. Maybe it's because I'm not from the US, but seriously, the only people I have heard talking like that are bad stereotypes on TV, never in real life. But I suppose you guys know more about the US than me, so I'll take your word for it.

 

And this is coming from a country that speaks very bad Spanish, very bad. We have butchered our language, unfortunately.

[smrou]

It's the grammatical errors, verb conjugations, etc; which don't sound colloquial, but uninformed.

I don't know if you're noticing something that I haven't, but what I hear from Poussey sounds pretty much like black vernacular English to me, not grammatical errors.  Speaking that way--in informal contexts, at least--isn't necessarily a sign of lack of education.  I have had plenty of students who, since they're still in high school aren't highly educated but who have had consistent education since they were little and are perfectly capable of writing/speaking grammatically, speak in a similar vernacular among their friends and to a certain extent in class with me.  At the same time, some of their friends will give them crap about constructions like "you was" instead of "you were" when used in class (they might give them crap about it outside of class, too, but I don't think I've witnessed that) because they can recognize that it's not correct in formal speech.  Point being, they know perfectly well how to conjugate a verb.  It's just that in their particular brand of colloquial speech the verbs conjugate differently.

 

All that is to say that there's nothing about the way Poussey speaks--at least that I've noticed--that makes me think she is either pretending anything or that she isn't educated enough to know proper English.  

Edited June 9, 2014 by smrou

[Skittl1321]

The were vs. was is likely vernacular, not a mistake.  I've heard kids give each other grief for "acting white"- they aren't making a mistake when they talk like that, they are making a statement about who they are.

[DrivingSideways]

I actually never noticed Poussey talking in an exaggerated 'ghetto' manner, in fact, all of the black actresses on this show may slip into some vernacular, but I think by and large they seem like smart girls.  I compare this to Real Housewives of Atlanta where some of the ridiculousness that comes out of, say, Nene's mouth, makes me cringe.

[vims]

I think it's called code-switching?  I mean, people devote a lot of time to studying this, but in a nutshell many people use different accents/dialects when they're speaking in/to different groups.  I think in particular among minorities.  Exactly how well would it go over if Poussey walked into Litchfield and talked like Piper?  I don't think the point is that she's incapable of articulating herself in that way.  In fact we see Poussey and Taystee imitate the speech of upper middle class white people to pretty hilarious effect in season one.  Clearly they can talk that way if they want to, and if it would behove them to do so.  Doesn't seem like it would though in the Litch.

 

ETA: Maybe that's something that's fairly unique to America, though I would think in England, where social class is really closely tied to accents, that some of that goes on there, too.  

 

ETA2: It occurs to me that another example of code-switching is Piper's famous "Bitches gots to learn."

Thanks for this; I couldn't remember the term.

 

I think  it's likely the actress speaks German and they worked it into Poussey's backstory because it was interesting and a way to surprise the audience. I'd wager money they hadn't worked out the backstory in S1. 

 

But there's a theme with all of the characters that they all want to be loved for who they are but are not necessarily free to be that person. To differing degrees they're all wearing masks to survive.

[woodscommaelle]

I was strangely turned on by Caputo's singing.

[Helena Dax]

I don't know  about Poussey's English, but I thought she came from the same background than Taystee. Anyway, she's so gorgeous and sweet. The German dad was a total swine but  if you knew your dad thinks being a lesbian is an illness, would you really be banging your girlfriend in your own house? I mean, the way the German girl was behaving didn't suggest at all that she had such a shitty dad. To me, his reaction came from nowhere.

 

I'd let go a small "awwww" when Tiffany hugged Healey and I usually hate both of them. I also loved the scene with Suzanne and Morello. Maybe Morello isn't as crazy as I thought. Maybe.

 

Brook's hilarious. And the moment when Caputo saw the old lady was priceless. 

 

I guess Pornstache is coming...

[DangerousMinds]

I was strangely turned on by Caputo's singing.

And he won me over by being in a band called Sideboob! Hilarious.

[woodscommaelle]

And he won me over by being in a band called Sideboob! Hilarious.

YES! Sideboob Tuesdays!!

Anyone know the name of that song?

Edited June 12, 2014 by woodscommaelle

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have a feeling that Pornstache would approve of the band's name.

[woodscommaelle]

"You look like the gay Edge."

LOL

Info for those who may be interested:

 

The Sideboob band is actually a band called Adopted Highways (Tom Beaujour, Tim Foljahn, Jennifer O'Connor). Facebook.com/adoptedhighways The song you are asking about is called "You Slay Me" - all the sideboob songs are avail here: sideboob.bandcamp.com - Fun Fact - "You Slay Me" is actually sung by Nick Sandow who plays Joe Caputo. Foljahn and Beaujour are also in the onscreen band and Ira Elliot (of Nada Surf) plays the drummer. Confusing enough? :)

[mledawn]

I watched Piper open that disconnect box and the safety person in me nearly had a heart attack. LEFT HAND RULE!!

Thankfully no work had been done on the place since - when was it? - 2004?

 

I loved Pennsatucky hugging Healy - awww.

Edited June 11, 2014 by mledawn

[Agent Dark]

I watched Piper open that disconnect box and the safety person in me nearly had a heart attack. LEFT HAND RULE!!

Thankfully no work had been done on the place since - when was it? - 2004?

Eh, for a light and general power circuit you're probably not that concerned.  It's not like there's motors or anything that can draw a high load hanging off it.

 

However the fact that she was using non-insulated tools, had no means of verifying the circuit was de-energised (multimeter or some other sort of voltage detector) and there were two people poking around the same panel in cramped conditions were the real red flags for me.  Maybe it's a subtle commentary on the poor safety training given to inmates.  Or maybe its just a TV thing (though surely there would be sparkies in the crew who would be able to point out correct safety procedures).

[woodscommaelle]

Are we supposed to hate Larry? Because I do.  I can't remember what he was like in the book....but I'm pretty sure he wasn't so douchey, right?