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S05.E08: I Want to Love You Until the Day I Die

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Connor and Oliver’s big wedding day has arrived, but there’s murder in the air; and the mystery of who the unlucky victim is will be revealed.

Airdate: Thursday, November 15, 2018

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Yep. I think everyone called it being Miller from the beginning. Sadly, I'm not surprised at these revelations. 

Also, what a shitty twist that they threw away Bonnie/Miller's relationship to make the flashforward work with cold as ice Bonnie killing her boyfriend. 

Of course Nate killed Miller. I knew it was either Nate or Gabriel. However...it was surprising how brutal Miller's death was. Like...goddamn, way to go, Nate. Also....not impressed with his acting. I still don't find Nate interesting. He's just so bland and his shock was...odd. I don't think the actor's all that good.

Seriously, I'm not happy with the way this show brutalized Miller's death. This may be the first mystery that didn't work for me. I actually found it really badly written. They didn't think things through. Bonnie killing Miller like that was just....eh. I feel pissed but at the writing. 

Connor/Oliver's wedding was well done. 

No surprise that Oliver was well and fine and inside. I muted his singing scene because....meh. 

I really think they made a mistake with this mystery arc. 

Gabriel is Sam's kid. Yawn. Sam's dead! Move on! 

Pretty meh finale all around. 

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I wondered if Gabriel could be Samsung kid from his first marriage.. But I assumed Anna would've known who he was so I started thinking elsewhere.. I mean Frank knew who he was... So now I'm wondering who's on the phone calling frank..unless the adoption they keep talking about is for Gabriel.. Which I also entertained.. But then I was like.. Would Sam give away his kid.. But if the birth mother died.. Man who knows 

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Everything with Sam still haunting Annalise all these years later. Dang.

I get Bonnie wanting to go see what's happening with Miller, but why on earth wouldn't she have just handed Christopher off to somebody else at the reception before going back out into the snow? Not only is taking a baby into that cold weather without proper winter clothing a bad idea in and of itself, but she could've put the baby at risk if she'd come into that showdown between Nate and Miller sooner. 

17 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

However...it was surprising how brutal Miller's death was. Like...goddamn, way to go, Nate. 

Yeah, the amount of blood on his face was...yikes. As for Bonnie finishing him off, I think it was mainly to stop him suffering any further, but I agree that it would've been better to just have her stumble onto the scene after the fact altogether. My mom was wondering if they'll find out later on that they were wrong in their assumptions about Miller's involvement in Nate Sr.s death. That'd be a rough ride for them if that winds up being the case. 

As for other things, Connor and Oliver's wedding was lovely, and I liked Connor getting all emotional when Oliver was singing to him. Aw (also, those lyrics were really haunting against the scenes of Nate trying to get rid of Miller's body). 

Michaela could wear a paper bag and be stunning, I swear. She looked so gorgeous in that dress. I liked Oliver's mom's dress as well. I will say, though, that given this is taking place in the winter, a lot of those people must've been freezing, with their sleeveless dresses that just went to the knees and whatnot. 

Asher and Connor's mom hooking up is still weird as hell even knowing how they got to that point. I can understand Connor not wanting to make a scene while they're still celebrating, but there's got to be some confrontation coming between them over that at some point.

Strange finale. 

Edited by Annber03
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11 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yep. I think everyone called it being Miller from the beginning. Sadly, I'm not surprised at these revelations. 

Also, what a shitty twist that they threw away Bonnie/Miller's relationship to make the flashforward work with cold as ice Bonnie killing her boyfriend. 

Of course Nate killed Miller. I knew it was either Nate or Gabriel. However...it was surprising how brutal Miller's death was. Like...goddamn, way to go, Nate. Also....not impressed with his acting. I still don't find Nate interesting. He's just so bland and his shock was...odd. I don't think the actor's all that good.

Seriously, I'm not happy with the way this show brutalized Miller's death. This may be the first mystery that didn't work for me. I actually found it really badly written. They didn't think things through. Bonnie killing Miller like that was just....eh. I feel pissed but at the writing. 

Connor/Oliver's wedding was well done. 

No surprise that Oliver was well and fine and inside. I muted his singing scene because....meh. 

I really think they made a mistake with this mystery arc. 

Gabriel is Sam's kid. Yawn. Sam's dead! Move on! 

Pretty meh finale all around. 

All. Of. This. 

I'm annoyed that they had Bonnie finish off Miller after Nate beat him up. The whole reveal of Miller supposedly ordering Nate Senior's death was wack. I didn't find any of it believable. And I don't think it's a big leap to say that we'll find out in the back half of the season that Miller was innocent. What a waste of a character.

So, now we know that Gabriel is Sam's son. But I still don't care. They haven't made that character anything beyond a cipher.

Loved all the wedding looks, but Bonnie's and Annalise's were my favorites. 

Connor's Dad: I'm a lawyer, too. I have a lot of opinions.

Annalise: Problem is, I didn't ask for your opinion.

*dead*

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6 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I wondered if Gabriel could be Samsung kid from his first marriage.. But I assumed Anna would've known who he was so I started thinking elsewhere.. I mean Frank knew who he was... So now I'm wondering who's on the phone calling frank..unless the adoption they keep talking about is for Gabriel.. Which I also entertained.. But then I was like.. Would Sam give away his kid.. But if the birth mother died.. Man who knows 

It seems like Vivian Maddox was Sam's first wife. Which......is insane that Gabriel has his mother's last name and Annalise never thought it was suspicious or that she never looked into Gabriel in the first place. She wouldn't have had to even dig that hard to find out his true identity. 

I'm willing to bet the showrunner doesn't know who Frank's been talking to. For all we know, he's talking to the governor. 

I find it hard to believe that Annalise's drinking about an adoption and the revelation about Gabriel are connected. If Annalise knew that Sam had a kid and gave him up, did she really never bother to find out where this kid would be? And if she knew about the kid and would have presumably known Sam's wife's maiden name, did she really just dismiss the last name of Maddox? I mean, I get maybe not putting together the connection at first but I still find it unbelievable that Annalise has never looked into Gabriel when he's been getting closer to the group.

Also...again...SAM'S DEAD. LET'S MOVE ON FROM HIM. The guy has been rotting in the ground for years now. I'm sick of Sam and his backstory. I just...don't care. I would have rather had him be Michaela's real brother. Since Michaela's adopted, it could have happened. Of course before the hook-up happened, because that's gross. 

Could they just have Nate decide to try CPR on Miller and revive him? Have him live in a coma, like Simon did for a few days? Just...c'mon, that's the worst way to have a character go on this show, and that's saying a lot. And oh look, Nate brutally (nearly) killed a guy, just like his dad. Except Nate can't plead insanity. I don't think a jury is going to buy that Nate was so wrecked with grief about his dad that he beat a guy to a pulp all because he assumed something that wasn't proven. And I feel like Miller probably would have died if Bonnie hadn't come to finish the job. Miller looked pretty bad. 

Seriously, worst finale this show has done.

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2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It seems like Vivian Maddox was Sam's first wife. Which......is insane that Gabriel has his mother's last name and Annalise never thought it was suspicious or that she never looked into Gabriel in the first place. She wouldn't have had to even dig that hard to find out his true identity. 

I'm willing to bet the showrunner doesn't know who Frank's been talking to. For all we know, he's talking to the governor. 

I find it hard to believe that Annalise's drinking about an adoption and the revelation about Gabriel are connected. If Annalise knew that Sam had a kid and gave him up, did she really never bother to find out where this kid would be? And if she knew about the kid and would have presumably known Sam's wife's maiden name, did she really just dismiss the last name of Maddox? I mean, I get maybe not putting together the connection at first but I still find it unbelievable that Annalise has never looked into Gabriel when he's been getting closer to the group.

Also...again...SAM'S DEAD. LET'S MOVE ON FROM HIM. The guy has been rotting in the ground for years now. I'm sick of Sam and his backstory. I just...don't care. I would have rather had him be Michaela's real brother. Since Michaela's adopted, it could have happened. Of course before the hook-up happened, because that's gross. 

Could they just have Nate decide to try CPR on Miller and revive him? Have him live in a coma, like Simon did for a few days? Just...c'mon, that's the worst way to have a character go on this show, and that's saying a lot. And oh look, Nate brutally (nearly) killed a guy, just like his dad. Except Nate can't plead insanity. I don't think a jury is going to buy that Nate was so wrecked with grief about his dad that he beat a guy to a pulp all because he assumed something that wasn't proven. And I feel like Miller probably would have died if Bonnie hadn't come to finish the job. Miller looked pretty bad. 

Seriously, worst finale this show has done.

I also immediately thought it was bullshit that Annalise wouldn't have raised an eyebrow at the last name. She surely knew Sam's first wife's name. But what I don't get is that Frank sure seemed to know who Gabriel was this whole time and seemed like he thought he was there to hurt Annalise, so I don't get why he didn't tell her until he found the birth certificate, as if he didn't know who he was until then. I guess just because it was confirmation that Gabriel knew who he was?

I would think the showrunner knows who Frank is talking to by now, but probably didn't know at the time of writing the episode. My only guess is still Eve, as she's the only person we know of that knew Annalise and Frank back then and would care to want to protect her, but maybe that's just me being hopeful because I want Eve back.

I think Annalise was drinking way before the adoption stuff; she had a bunch of empty bottles in the trash by the time the adoption thing came up and Bonnie credited the drinking to Nate Sr's case in this episode. I still have no guesses on the adoption, but I feel like it's unrelated to Gabriel and was just introduced when it was as a final misdirect going into the finale.

I've been wondering if I should consider it a mercy kill on Bonnie's part of not, since it was hard to tell if he would have died anyways or if he could've lived if they got him to a hospital. I think it was a bit of both, wanting to end his suffering but also wanting to protect Nate, and by extension Annalise.

I found the S4 midseason finale worse (and the s2 season fianle too), but yeah, Nate and Miller and Sam as the big reveals? Eh.

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So, did Miller actually kill Nate Senior? Because I found their evidence to be pretty shoddy, and I have no idea what his motive might be. Did he want a promotion? Was it something with him trying to protect Bonnie? I dont get it. Probably one of the weaker mystery payoffs this show has done. And I so rarely care about Nate. I like his and Bonnie's friendship, but mostly I find him to be rather dull, and beating a guy to death doesn't change that. And it makes Bonnie seem even more cold than usual.

Annalise never will be able to rid herself of Sam, will she? Even his kids are haunting her! I dont really think him being Sams get is such an earth shattering revelation, honestly. She has no real connection to him, and unless he is here to find out what happened to his dad and get revenge for his death, its really not as dramatic as the background music wanted it to be. Also, it seems like he is the son of Sam and his ex wife from before Annalise. Did Annalise never meet her husbands son, in several years of marriage? Or is he a long lost kid from some random affair? 

The wedding was sweet, and Oliver singing to Connor, and Connor getting emotional, was adorable. Honestly, I was worried that Oliver would ditch Connor after freaking out that Connor would leave him or something. I also found the conversation between Oliver and Connors dad to be really strange, and a bit creepy. He needs "a firm hand" from a partner? What a weird thing to say  to your kids new spouse! Something about him always gives me skeevy vibes. I also really liked when Connor went to ask Annalise to come to their wedding. They have a real love/hate relationship a lot of the time, so it was nice to see them having a moment. 

Poor baby Christopher has his first murder party!

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14 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also...again...SAM'S DEAD. LET'S MOVE ON FROM HIM. The guy has been rotting in the ground for years now. I'm sick of Sam and his backstory. I just...don't care. I would have rather had him be Michaela's real brother. Since Michaela's adopted, it could have happened. Of course before the hook-up happened, because that's gross. 

Agreed, the twist just felt like their way of trying to tie everything together back to the beginning with Sam.

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So I guess Gabriel didn't grow up with his pops at least.. And the way he talked to Anna.. Maybe his mom wasn't around all hi life either.. Of course he could be lying.. But I doubt the show hired Rome Flynn to be an antagonist... Usually those folks die.. So maybe hes born.. Dad runs off with Anna.. Mom is bitter for a bit then dies.. And he's tryna figure out his backstory... But is wary of Anna and her crew seeing as they seem fishy

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I’m going to have to think about how I feel about this episode. I’m someone who watches the first episode of a season and then binges to catch up at the mid-season/full season finales. I hate the whodunit structure in this show because I learned in early seasons that the writers don’t even know whodunit/who died in the early stages of what we see, so they aren’t playing fair week to week to see if we can solve clues before they show up.  Binging, however, usually lets me zip through these weaknesses and  be pulled in by acting/intrigue  

Earlier seasons have left me cheering/laughing/whooping at the screen when reveals happen. I am perplexed and underwhelmed by this season’s reveals at the midpoint. 

Im not sure what story they are trying to tell now. Is it the notion that some folks can escape from early traumas and be relatively okay (even though they as adults are involved in multiple deaths); and that others can never escape from early traumas and are doomed to repeat them?

Gabriel is to me Wes, in a same song, different verse variation that I’m truly not interested in. 

I am interested in the Bonnie story, it feels like a ‘just when She was starting to recover, she got pulled back in’ story. 

I’m not going to predict anything, as that I think even the writers will tell you that is folly on this show. I’m hoping to cheer and laugh in inapproriate ways at the end of the season, but I worry that with the writers always planting loose threads while trying to figure out the mysteries, we are ebbing ever closer to when they can’t tie it together anymore and it all just frays and falls apart. 

Edited by pennben
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I'm not surprised that he's related to Sam, I'm just surprised that he isn't Annalise's baby. Of course, she married Sam, he didn't leave her, so if she'd been pregnant at the time, she probably would have kept it, just as she did with the one she lost. I haven't spent a lot of time trying to figure anything out, because it gets so convoluted, that I'm surprised the one girl's mother didn't show up. She probably will, at some point, at least in some way to haunt her daughter (and why am I forgetting her name??). Laurel! 

That beautiful baby. She should have left him inside, and they should have called the police. Damn. He probably is innocent. Just a side note: I didn't find him attractive - not that it matters - but I don't find Frank attractive, either. And with her relationship: on the one hand, I don't like the writers screwing with it, when she actually seemed to be happy for a little while, but she did also murder Rebecca, right? At the end of the first season. A few of these people need to learn that you don't just kill people, to fix a problem. 

Michaela and Gabriel are one gorgeous couple - and Viola is gorgeous, too. I love to see her dancing, and happy. 

Edited by Anela
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I get the annoyance at them continuing to bring Sam back up again, but at the same time, if this is the last season or second last (I don't see it going past next season, since I think Viola's contract is likely up after that), it would be a cool way to bring the show back to its roots, by digging up the Sam cover up again, where it all started. Except that the two main people involved in his death, Rebecca and Wes, are both dead, so... I'm not really sure how much there is to uncover. And didn't they already blame Sam's murder on Wes anyways, so it's not even like that needs to be uncovered.

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If you find someone's keys, you don't just use them to let yourself into their house. You call them and let them know you have their keys. Or you go to their house and ring the bell and wait for them to answer the door. Gabriel is creepy as hell.

Also, if you want to know about the woman your father married, you can contact that person directly. You don't gather news articles about them, enroll in their class, try to get close to everyone in their circle, and never directly say who you are.

It's just shady and weird behavior.

And if you are worried that she's drinking, you go to one of her friends-- or the student of hers who you just hooked up with and are supposedly at the wedding with-- and you tell them what you saw.

You also don't leave your date at the wedding without telling her where you're going.

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I’m disappointed in this episode. It was so predictable.  As soon as we saw that scene several episodes ago of Miller in the car with the ring I suspected it was an “out of sequence” scene just like the scene with Wes last fall finale.   So I figured Miller was likely dead.

And Gabriel being the son of Sam (hah!) was also something that was easily seen.  So what, he’s going to attack Annalise now?  I guess the only mystery is why he is so angry with her.  What is with the adoption?   She and Sam were going to adopt Gabriel but she backed out or something?  So Gabriel grew up with a single mom who drank too much?   If that’s the case surely Annalise would have known instantly who Gabriel was.

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Even though nothing was really SHOCKING, I enjoyed this episode nonetheless. I can't say I am say to see Miller go, and completely understand Nate's rather violent reaction. And you have to hand it to Bonnie to be willing to do the dirty work to protect someone, even if she was pissed at Nate right then. She likely did it to protect Annaliese, but she gets the job done when it needs to be done.

Congratulations to those who called that Gabriel was Sam's son. It makes the most sense from a timeline perspective. I'm going to guess Gabriel's mom was Sam's first wife (and not just some random), and Sam left her for Annaliese. I mean, why else would Gabriel have some sort of agenda? So now he wants payback against Annaliese for breaking up his parents' marriage and/or maybe killing Sam (since so many people assumed she killed Sam)? I'm going to guess that Sam didn't know about him, because otherwise you would think that they would have had some sort of relationship and not be such a shock to Annaliese. Or maybe they did have some sort of relationship, and Sam kept that completely hidden from Annaliese (which wouldn't shock me in the slightest). I'm curious how this will play out in the second half of the season. 

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For me, this episode was all about how awesome Jack Falahee and Liza Weil were.  The way Falahee as Connor looked at Oliver when he walked down the aisle and when Oliver sang to him just broke my heart; he was so wonderfully, sweetly in love.  Plus, we had one more scene to remind us well he and Viola Davis play off each other.  And Weil has just been bringing it all season long; she was fantastic all episode.

Nothing was surprising, but I was really entertained.

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41 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

And you have to hand it to Bonnie to be willing to do the dirty work to protect someone, even if she was pissed at Nate right then.

I mean, that is her trademark move! Smothering a person who is tied up or half beaten to death. Bonnie is the person you call when your really close to killing someone, but cant actually finish it. It sucks that Bonnie is losing something and someone that made her happy (because, you know, she killed him), but Liza Weil has done amazing work all season. She has been riveting from beginning to end. 

But maybe next time she has to smother her boyfriend after her kind of friend half beat him to death for ordering his father's death, maybe she should shouldn't take the baby with her.

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3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It seems like Vivian Maddox was Sam's first wife. Which......is insane that Gabriel has his mother's last name and Annalise never thought it was suspicious or that she never looked into Gabriel in the first place. She wouldn't have had to even dig that hard to find out his true identity. 

I'm willing to bet the showrunner doesn't know who Frank's been talking to. For all we know, he's talking to the governor. 

I find it hard to believe that Annalise's drinking about an adoption and the revelation about Gabriel are connected. If Annalise knew that Sam had a kid and gave him up, did she really never bother to find out where this kid would be? And if she knew about the kid and would have presumably known Sam's wife's maiden name, did she really just dismiss the last name of Maddox? I mean, I get maybe not putting together the connection at first but I still find it unbelievable that Annalise has never looked into Gabriel when he's been getting closer to the group.

Also...again...SAM'S DEAD. LET'S MOVE ON FROM HIM. The guy has been rotting in the ground for years now. I'm sick of Sam and his backstory. I just...don't care. I would have rather had him be Michaela's real brother. Since Michaela's adopted, it could have happened. Of course before the hook-up happened, because that's gross. 

Could they just have Nate decide to try CPR on Miller and revive him? Have him live in a coma, like Simon did for a few days? Just...c'mon, that's the worst way to have a character go on this show, and that's saying a lot. And oh look, Nate brutally (nearly) killed a guy, just like his dad. Except Nate can't plead insanity. I don't think a jury is going to buy that Nate was so wrecked with grief about his dad that he beat a guy to a pulp all because he assumed something that wasn't proven. And I feel like Miller probably would have died if Bonnie hadn't come to finish the job. Miller looked pretty bad. 

Seriously, worst finale this show has done.

Yeah but why do we think Gabriel is from Sam's first marriage? I kind of don't. First, why wouldn't Sam have had a relationship with the kid? Second, the birth certificate states his birth year as being 1994 - Annalise and Sam had been together 20 years or more when Sam died in 2014, so since before Gabriel was born. Third, why is Gabriel lurking around WITH his birth certificate hidden in a lock box? Why? I think he is the product of Sam and ANOTHER other woman and Sam never knew about the baby. Which could mean that Annalise orchestrated his secret adoption or the mom died or something and Annalise got rid of the baby to keep Sam. Otherwise it makes no sense for Gabriel to have been a secret or for him to be sneaking around Annalise's life.

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28 minutes ago, Arbee said:

Yeah but why do we think Gabriel is from Sam's first marriage? I kind of don't. First, why wouldn't Sam have had a relationship with the kid? Second, the birth certificate states his birth year as being 1994 - Annalise and Sam had been together 20 years or more when Sam died in 2014, so since before Gabriel was born. Third, why is Gabriel lurking around WITH his birth certificate hidden in a lock box? Why? I think he is the product of Sam and ANOTHER other woman and Sam never knew about the baby. Which could mean that Annalise orchestrated his secret adoption or the mom died or something and Annalise got rid of the baby to keep Sam. Otherwise it makes no sense for Gabriel to have been a secret or for him to be sneaking around Annalise's life.

If he's a product of his first marriage, we reasonably should have seen him when Annalise was busy feuding and sniping with Sam's sister, played by Marcia Gay Harden, over the house and Sam's estate. It's much more likely that he's Sam's kid from one of his many affairs.

Because we know that Sam had what's her face killed in season 1 because she was pregnant, it's possible Gabriel's mom realized that Sam wasn't going to react well to news of the pregnancy and ran rather than telling him. Homicide is still one of the leading causes of death associated with pregnancy. For example, Rae Carruth's trifling ass was just released from prison and is trying to get custody of the child he tried to murder in his mother's belly.

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8 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Connor's Dad: I'm a lawyer, too. I have a lot of opinions.

Annalise: Problem is, I didn't ask for your opinion.

Best line of the episode.

7 hours ago, pennben said:

Gabriel is to me Wes, in a same song, different verse variation that I’m truly not interested in. 

That about sums it up. Sam is dead! Who cares? He's plaguing Annalise from the beyond.

Between Miller's death (Nate's acting was not great there - "Do you feel the pain now?!") and Cookie's sister getting beat by her son on Empire, I have had more than my fill of savage beatings on TV this week.

I'm glad they let Conrad Ricamora sing (he was in The King and I on Broadway). Their wedding was very sweet. It was nice to see something nice in a sea of misery - seriously, everyone in this circle is miserable. I don't even like Bonnie, but I felt bad for her because her life has been an endless slog of misery and she lost/killed someone who made her happy, at least for a little while.

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Didn't they imply that Annaliese was "the other woman" though?  So maybe they were together when Gabriel was conceived, but Sam was still married to his wife.

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We've had stronger winter finales but I did like this one a lot though.

Connor/Oliver's wedding was the nicest part, glad their day mostly went off without a hitch, loved seeing their parents, their vows and Oliver's singing and I'm not generally keen on that particular song tbh. Everything there was just great.

Miller being responsible for Nate Sr's death (if he actually is) was a little disappointing but Nate's whaling on him was pretty brutal, even for this show. Bonnie finishing him off though was also pretty dark. Not sure if getting rid of bodies will suddenly make Nate a more compelling character though.

Gabriel being Sam's son would've worked more had it happened about two seasons ago to be honest. I did find the confrontation scenes with him and Annalise a little chilling though, even though I don't think Annalise might be in any danger from Gabriel for now.

Michaela, Laurel, Asher and Frank didn't really do a lot but their scenes were good, 8/10

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1 hour ago, rebeccalj said:

Didn't they imply that Annaliese was "the other woman" though?  So maybe they were together when Gabriel was conceived, but Sam was still married to his wife.

She said straight out that she was in this episode. But Gabriel appears to have been born when Annalise was married to Sam, based on the vague timeline. (We know Gabriel was born in '94 but I don't think there's anything set in stone about the length of Annalise's and Sam's marriage - they said "20 years" but it would be easy to say they were just rounding up, etc.)

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Where on earth was Tegan?  I missed her.  They couldn't have found a way to get her invited to the wedding?  I would rather have had Michaela invite her as her plus one.  She worked with Connor and Oliver to some extent.  I feel like we got robbed of watching more of her salsa dancing.  Boo.

Or maybe somehow Laurel could have invited her.  It would have been ironic since Tegan doesn't want anything to do with her, but you never know.  I heard Laurel ask Michaela why she (Laurel) couldn't be Michaela's plus one instead of Gabriel... does that mean that Laurel didn't get an invite?

And no Timothy Hutton in the episode either.  It would have been odd for him to have been there, but still.  I would think he's probably involved either in the Nate Sr death or the disappearance of Mama Castillo.

So for second half, what's the big mystery going to be?  The details of Gabriel?  Zzzzzzzzz.  I couldn't care less.  This actor was so bad as Zende on The Bold and the Beautiful that viewers called him Zzzzzzzzzende.  Maybe he can die in the first episode back and the rest of the half is spent finding out who killed him.

I also think that the fate of Sandrine Castillo should also figure into the second half.  Other questions:  Who was Sam on the phone with?  The adoption (if it's unrelated to Gabriel)?  

I want Tegan and Annalise to form their own firm.  More Tegan.  More.

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Huh. 

That was both disturbing and underwhelming.

In a weird way this whole scenario is the same as first season. Annalise isn't involved in the murder at all, doesn't even know it's happening, but will have to clean up after it.

I give the show credit for masterful use of misdirects and twists. Even if I don't care about them, I didn't always see them coming. 

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12 hours ago, possibilities said:

If you find someone's keys, you don't just use them to let yourself into their house. You call them and let them know you have their keys. Or you go to their house and ring the bell and wait for them to answer the door. Gabriel is creepy as hell.

Also, if you want to know about the woman your father married, you can contact that person directly. You don't gather news articles about them, enroll in their class, try to get close to everyone in their circle, and never directly say who you are.

It's just shady and weird behavior.

And if you are worried that she's drinking, you go to one of her friends-- or the student of hers who you just hooked up with and are supposedly at the wedding with-- and you tell them what you saw.

You also don't leave your date at the wedding without telling her where you're going.

He didn't find them. He deliberately pocketed them when putting Annalise's stuff back into her purse. I don't agree that she is not in danger from him.

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Where on earth was Tegan?  I missed her.  They couldn't have found a way to get her invited to the wedding?  I would rather have had Michaela invite her as her plus one.  She worked with Connor and Oliver to some extent.  I feel like we got robbed of watching more of her salsa dancing.  Boo.

Or maybe somehow Laurel could have invited her.  It would have been ironic since Tegan doesn't want anything to do with her, but you never know.  I heard Laurel ask Michaela why she (Laurel) couldn't be Michaela's plus one instead of Gabriel... does that mean that Laurel didn't get an invite?

And no Timothy Hutton in the episode either.  It would have been odd for him to have been there, but still.  I would think he's probably involved either in the Nate Sr death or the disappearance of Mama Castillo.

So for second half, what's the big mystery going to be?  The details of Gabriel?  Zzzzzzzzz.  I couldn't care less.  This actor was so bad as Zende on The Bold and the Beautiful that viewers called him Zzzzzzzzzende.  Maybe he can die in the first episode back and the rest of the half is spent finding out who killed him.

I also think that the fate of Sandrine Castillo should also figure into the second half.  Other questions:  Who was Sam on the phone with?  The adoption (if it's unrelated to Gabriel)?  

I want Tegan and Annalise to form their own firm.  More Tegan.  More.

I was thinking the same thing. Normally the first half we find out who is dead, and the second half we find out the killer. But we know who the killers are.

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I meant who was Frank on the phone with, not Sam.

If one of the big mysteries is going to be "who really killed Nate Sr"... then sorry, doesn't work for me.  1) I really don't care about Nate Sr, and 2) I would think it would either be the Governor, Miller or Timothy Hutton.  None of whom I'm really that invested in.

The fate of Sandrine Castillo... also not that interesting to me.

I agree about Gabriel.  He obviously knows who Annalise is, so why the long drawn out confrontation?  I feel like the only reason why it took so long to get to where he got to with her was because they needed a shock reveal for the winter finale.  Any normal person would have simply had a meeting with her.  Instead he goes to so much trouble to uproot his life, ingratiate himself with everyone she knows, steals her keys, and hides in the shadows.  Annalise said she has a gun.  I hope she gets to use it on him.

Now a "who killed Gabriel Maddox" mystery... that I can definitely get behind.  I hope this happens.

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I'm sorry but... did I miss something? I have so many questions about this episode.

- So Gabriel is Sam's son. Why is Annalise so devastated? She said herself she was "the other woman", so she could've at least imagined that Sam might have had secret children who would pop up some day? And why is Gabriel acting so creepy? What is he after? Why would he be mad at/want to hurt Annelise? Because she broke up his parents, maybe? Like what, 20 years ago? Grow up, Gabriel, nobody cares. 

- Nate beats Miller (almost) to death. Based on what? A picture of him making a phone call? Sooo out of character for Nate, who has always been a kind meh character throughout the show. I never thought he would be capable of such brutal violence.

- Bonnie finishes the job. Why? To protect Nate? Like they're so BFF she's willing to murder her own boyfriend for him? And the stupid yet perfectly timed fight they had before the wedding? I don't buy it.

- Christopher's previously immaculate white blanket has blood stains all over it. No one notices. Okay.

- Last but not least, I get the "I didn't need a tuxedo, I needed you" wedding vows but Oliver, for the love of God, you looked like you just got out of bed at your own wedding. 

The build-up was so much better than the reveals.

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7 minutes ago, stormy weather said:

 

- Last but not least, I get the "I didn't need a tuxedo, I needed you" wedding vows but Oliver, for the love of God, you looked like you just got out of bed at your own wedding. 

 

I assumed Oliver was wearing a traditional Filipino(?) wedding outfit. At the reception, he’s changed clothes and is wearing a tux. 

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

So for second half, what's the big mystery going to be?  The details of Gabriel?  Zzzzzzzzz.  I couldn't care less.  This actor was so bad as Zende on The Bold and the Beautiful that viewers called him Zzzzzzzzzende.  Maybe he can die in the first episode back and the rest of the half is spent finding out who killed him.

Basically Gabriel and the aftermath of Miller's death and knowing the details behind Nate's dad's death since Miller was about to say something before he got killed.

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

So for second half, what's the big mystery going to be? 

I'm guessing figuring out what Gabriel is here for? Who Frank is talking to? What the adoption is all about? Who really had Nate Sr. killed? And then obviously trying to figure out how to deal with Miller's murder.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The biggest shock of the episode? The Keating 5 not only has nothing to do with the murder, they don’t even know about it! 

Good for them, that's what I call growth. I'm curious if they're going to be willing to help or if they'll throw hissy fits about it until Annalise gathers them and reminds them how much Nate and especially Bonnie, has helped to clean up their messes before. I expect a lot of whining from them if they're brought in.

59 minutes ago, stormy weather said:

- Nate beats Miller (almost) to death. Based on what? A picture of him making a phone call? Sooo out of character for Nate, who has always been a kind meh character throughout the show. I never thought he would be capable of such brutal violence.

- Bonnie finishes the job. Why? To protect Nate? Like they're so BFF she's willing to murder her own boyfriend for him? And the stupid yet perfectly timed fight they had before the wedding? I don't buy it.

Nate definitely jumped the gun, but I get where he's coming from. But that private investigator or whoever she was is surely gonna be raising some eyebrows when Miller goes missing after she sent him evidence that made him look guilty for setting up his father's murder.

Bonnie, I think it was a combination of things. Immediately, to protect Nate, but I think the fact that they had her have her own doubts about him in regards to his involvement adds to it. But I think ultimately, she was doing it because she knew it's what Annalise would want her to to do - protect and help Nate - and it kind of extends to her too, considering her involvement in Nate Sr's case and how much both Nate and her might get in trouble if Miller lived and pressed charged for what Nate did to him.

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1 hour ago, tanyak said:

I assumed Oliver was wearing a traditional Filipino(?) wedding outfit. At the reception, he’s changed clothes and is wearing a tux. 

I sincerely apologize because I had no idea that was traditional Filipino attire for a groom. I looked it up and it appears the traditional shirts are usually more ornate and made of what seems to be organza, while Oliver's seemed a bit more plain, but nonetheless, my mistake. Sorry and thank you for pointing it out.

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Why is Nate beating Miller up an issue?

It was far from the most brutal thing that's ever occurred on this show.

The K-4 bludgeoned Sam to death then dismembered his corpse, Asher mowed a woman down with his car, Bonnie suffocated a woman and Frank regularly murders people while being treated as an antihero.

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I think this is the only murder on the show where they showed the bloodiness and the victim whimpering near death. The other ones were either just off screen, or otherwise a bit sanitized, and we only the corpses after they were inert.

I question the choice to play into the "violent Black male" trope. Nate has always been a peaceful guy with an astounding handle on his temper. He never blew up before. I liked that about his character, that he was probably the most fit person on the entire show, but he always used his power in a disciplined way and wasn't given to  impulsiveness or a habit of inducing fear.

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I think its clear that Gabriel is Sam's son with a mistress.  The flashbacks showed Annelise telling Sam "you like em weak", in reference to Lila, the student he cheated with in season one that kicked off the show.  That also leads me to believe that the adoption has to be Annelise trying to bully young Vivian Maddox into letting her and Sam adopt her child.  Gabriel has to be a year or two younger than Wes, who is 13 or 12 years older than Sam and Annelise's dead son.  After their son died, they said Sam and Annelise's marriage started to fail.  Knowing that Sam had a son out there alive while hers died probably was the proverbial nail in the coffin for their marriage, is my guess.   I'm guessing that they cast a Wes look alike to play on Wes being AK's surrogate son.   It is weird because Sam's son is a Wes clone and AK's two surrogate sons are Connor and Wes.  Connor looks similar to Sam and Wes looks like Gabriel.  Good job by casting.  Also that last shot was creepy as hell.

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Point of clarification: Wes and Wes alone killed Sam.  Michaela, Laurel, and Connor have obviously helped to cover up his and other murders, but none of those three has actually killed anyone.

Carry on.

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10 minutes ago, Chairperson Meow said:

I think its clear that Gabriel is Sam's son with a mistress.  The flashbacks showed Annelise telling Sam "you like em weak", in reference to Lila, the student he cheated with in season one that kicked off the show.  That also leads me to believe that the adoption has to be Annelise trying to bully young Vivian Maddox into letting her and Sam adopt her child.  Gabriel has to be a year or two younger than Wes, who is 13 or 12 years older than Sam and Annelise's dead son.  After their son died, they said Sam and Annelise's marriage started to fail.  Knowing that Sam had a son out there alive while hers died probably was the proverbial nail in the coffin for their marriage, is my guess. 

Re the adoption... Annalise told Bonnie that "they know about the adoption".  We were led to believe that the details of this adoption are scandalous and would discredit Annalise.  Obviously Annalise knows the details, including who she was trying to adopt.  So if she indeed was trying to bully Vivian Maddox into letting her and Sam adopt Gabriel... then his presence would not have been a mystery.

We were also led to believe that Annalise has no idea who Gabriel is.  Frank snoops the apartment in last week's episode and finds information and shares it with Laurel.  Laurel exclaims to Frank "you have to tell her who he is!"  Presumably the "her" is Annalise and the "he" is Gabriel.  We see Frank telling Annalise at the wedding that Gabriel is Sam's son.

So if the adoption involves a failed attempt to get Vivian Maddox to give up Gabriel then there is a disconnect between the information we were given.  Unless they try to explain it as "I never knew her name or the baby's name".

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For the most part, I enjoyed this episode.  However, the story about Gabriel being Sam’s son seemed wonky to me.  It doesn’t make sense that Gabriel was the product of Sam’s first marriage because the mother’s name listed on the birth certificate was Vivian Maddox and not Vivian Keating, and while I suppose it’s possible to assume she may have opted to keep her maiden name, it doesn’t seem likely.  In any case, you would think Annalise would know about a child from Sam’s marriage.  Gabriel’s mother just as likely could have been one of Sam’s flings which would explain the last name, but Sam was still listed on the birth certificate as the father, in which case he would still be required by law to provide child support, and Annalise is a pretty smart cookie, so I don’t see how he could have kept that secret for all those years without her finding out.  I’ll go back later and watch the last 15 minutes or so to see if I missed something, but so far, I’m scratching my head. 

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2 hours ago, Dee said:

Why is Nate beating Miller up an issue?

It was far from the most brutal thing that's ever occurred on this show.

The K-4 bludgeoned Sam to death then dismembered his corpse, Asher mowed a woman down with his car, Bonnie suffocated a woman and Frank regularly murders people while being treated as an antihero.

Here's a few reasons why I have an issue with Nate nearly killing Miller:

For one, it goes against everything that Nate had been fighting for with his father. He didn't want the Laheys to be seen as violent men when his father's case this season and last season had to do with him losing it on someone. I believe, a couple of episodes ago, someone, maybe Nate himself, commented on the optics of a black man beating up a white person and how that's such a bad look. Then this show....goes in that direction with Nate beating up Miller? That line from either Nate or maybe Annalise during the trial was foreshadowing, as we now know, but not in a good way. 

Secondly, Nate beat Miller when he had no substantiated proof that it was anything close to the truth. From Miller's reaction with Nate, there's a possibility that he was, indeed, innocent in all of this. So Nate lost it on a guy for no good reason if Miller is innocent. Also he's lost in on Miller for his father, someone who he hadn't been close with until very recently. Yes, it's family, but Nate's actions made it seem like him and Nate Sr. had a very close bond. So, for me, this felt like it was only done to parallel Nate Sr's actions and to probably besmirch his father's name if this gets out. 

I found the death to be quite violent. I know we've seen more brutal deaths before, such as Sam, but if Miller is innocent, he'd be the second innocent person killed on this show to protect someone in their group (the first was Rebecca, who Bonnie killed because she thought Rebecca killed Lila). Coincidentally, that also was death by suffocation. Sure, at this point, I realize that there's no definite proof that he's innocent...but there's also not much to say that he's guilty either. This was definitely as brutal as Rebecca's murder for me, but that also happened several years ago now so it's not exactly fresh in my mind. 

This also reflects badly on Nate, and I honestly don't think him finally being brought in on all the murders and cover-ups with the Keating 5, Bonnie, Annalise, and Frank is going to make him more interesting for me to watch. It's an attempt, but I'll be honest and say I have never cared for Nate and this storyline doesn't make me feel bad for him. I think, if it had been handled differently, maybe if it had been an accident, then it could have been interesting. Yes, Nate didn't deliver the final blow to end Miller's life, but he could have, if the flashforwards didn't already place Bonnie as the killer. 

Finally....it's just horrible writing all around. This season has been shaky, at best, but I had hoped that the big reveals would actually be interesting and unpredictable to some degree. Miller being dead was no surprise. I had Nate on a short list behind Gabriel as the killer. But more to it, they didn't set up this death until this episode. Miller was never ever a suspect until he was shown to be the dead body. Miller and Bonnie had one fight in order to get Bonnie to the point of killing him, even if she felt bad for doing it. It also made so little sense for Bonnie to immediately protect Nate, someone who she's been clashing with all season, without finding out all the facts. Killing someone she has said to love, someone she hasn't loved in that way in a while (at least since Annalise) for someone she hasn't really been friends with is just shit writing. I would expect Bonnie to do this for Annalise, not Nate.

And that's why I don't like this. 

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19 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I wondered if Gabriel could be Samsung kid from his first marriage.. But I assumed Anna would've known who he was so I started thinking elsewhere.. I mean Frank knew who he was... So now I'm wondering who's on the phone calling frank..unless the adoption they keep talking about is for Gabriel.. Which I also entertained.. But then I was like.. Would Sam give away his kid.. But if the birth mother died.. Man who knows 

I don't think Gabriel is from his first marriage.  Mother's name is listed as Vivian Maddox, not Keating. I think this was another inappropriate affair and Sam had Annalise orchestrate a black market adoption. Frank found ID for him under another name in that duffle. I'm wondering of Frank is speaking with Hannah or maybe Eve.

19 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

All. Of. This. 

I'm annoyed that they had Bonnie finish off Miller after Nate beat him up. The whole reveal of Miller supposedly ordering Nate Senior's death was wack. I didn't find any of it believable. And I don't think it's a big leap to say that we'll find out in the back half of the season that Miller was innocent. What a waste of a character.

So, now we know that Gabriel is Sam's son. But I still don't care. They haven't made that character anything beyond a cipher.

Loved all the wedding looks, but Bonnie's and Annalise's were my favorites. 

Connor's Dad: I'm a lawyer, too. I have a lot of opinions.

Annalise: Problem is, I didn't ask for your opinion.

*dead*

I think what prompted it was that Bonnie was triggered by the fight she and Miller had. He called her abuse "her issues" and then verbally attacked Annalise. On top of that you add in all the evidence that points to Miller having set Nate Sr up to die and I'm not even slightly surprised she finished him off. Just like with Rebecca, Bonnie is willing to do what it takes to protect Annalise and by extension the K5. From where she stood, Miller was a threat to them all.  He had to go.

18 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It seems like Vivian Maddox was Sam's first wife. Which......is insane that Gabriel has his mother's last name and Annalise never thought it was suspicious or that she never looked into Gabriel in the first place. She wouldn't have had to even dig that hard to find out his true identity. 

I'm willing to bet the showrunner doesn't know who Frank's been talking to. For all we know, he's talking to the governor. 

I find it hard to believe that Annalise's drinking about an adoption and the revelation about Gabriel are connected. If Annalise knew that Sam had a kid and gave him up, did she really never bother to find out where this kid would be? And if she knew about the kid and would have presumably known Sam's wife's maiden name, did she really just dismiss the last name of Maddox? I mean, I get maybe not putting together the connection at first but I still find it unbelievable that Annalise has never looked into Gabriel when he's been getting closer to the group.

Also...again...SAM'S DEAD. LET'S MOVE ON FROM HIM. The guy has been rotting in the ground for years now. I'm sick of Sam and his backstory. I just...don't care. I would have rather had him be Michaela's real brother. Since Michaela's adopted, it could have happened. Of course before the hook-up happened, because that's gross. 

Could they just have Nate decide to try CPR on Miller and revive him? Have him live in a coma, like Simon did for a few days? Just...c'mon, that's the worst way to have a character go on this show, and that's saying a lot. And oh look, Nate brutally (nearly) killed a guy, just like his dad. Except Nate can't plead insanity. I don't think a jury is going to buy that Nate was so wrecked with grief about his dad that he beat a guy to a pulp all because he assumed something that wasn't proven. And I feel like Miller probably would have died if Bonnie hadn't come to finish the job. Miller looked pretty bad. 

Seriously, worst finale this show has done.

I go back and forth as to whether Annalise was curious about Gabriel. On the one had if she did orchestrate and black market adoption she might not suspect him because she would have known the child by the other name. Jack something. (I'll have to go back and get that.) On the other hand, why else would she let a 2L into a class she specifically said was for 3L and above. Keep your enemies closer? 

I think we will always have flashbacks of Sam. Dying means nothing on a tv show. The dad from Six Feet Under died in like the 2 episode and was on the show for the entire run. 

I think the reason why they showed Nate losing and brutally beating him was to parallel his father. One of the underlying threads of this show appears to be "Sins of the father". Pretty much all of them have trouble relationships with their parent, especially their fathers. 

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I meant who was Frank on the phone with, not Sam.

If one of the big mysteries is going to be "who really killed Nate Sr"... then sorry, doesn't work for me.  1) I really don't care about Nate Sr, and 2) I would think it would either be the Governor, Miller or Timothy Hutton.  None of whom I'm really that invested in.

The fate of Sandrine Castillo... also not that interesting to me.

I agree about Gabriel.  He obviously knows who Annalise is, so why the long drawn out confrontation?  I feel like the only reason why it took so long to get to where he got to with her was because they needed a shock reveal for the winter finale.  Any normal person would have simply had a meeting with her.  Instead he goes to so much trouble to uproot his life, ingratiate himself with everyone she knows, steals her keys, and hides in the shadows.  Annalise said she has a gun.  I hope she gets to use it on him.

Now a "who killed Gabriel Maddox" mystery... that I can definitely get behind.  I hope this happens.

I'm not sure if we'll get back to Sandrine's fate this season. I'm pretty sure we'll get who had Nate Sr. killed, and who is Gabriel. In the middle of that I see the season ending with AK becoming a partner at C & G after helping Emmett clear his name.

4 hours ago, marcee said:

I believe Nip/Tuck's Matt. I don't think he had anything to do with Nate Sr.'s murder. Poor Bon Bon.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Governor didn't use him to set up Nate. Last season I wasn't sure if he was a good guy, then this season just as I was beginning to think he was a nice guy, he went off on Bonnie and brought up all that AK being a bad person stuff. I get the impression he may just be  nice guy getting used.

4 hours ago, stormy weather said:

I'm sorry but... did I miss something? I have so many questions about this episode.

- So Gabriel is Sam's son. Why is Annalise so devastated? She said herself she was "the other woman", so she could've at least imagined that Sam might have had secret children who would pop up some day? And why is Gabriel acting so creepy? What is he after? Why would he be mad at/want to hurt Annelise? Because she broke up his parents, maybe? Like what, 20 years ago? Grow up, Gabriel, nobody cares. 

- Nate beats Miller (almost) to death. Based on what? A picture of him making a phone call? Sooo out of character for Nate, who has always been a kind meh character throughout the show. I never thought he would be capable of such brutal violence.

.....

I think Annalise is upset because this was an illegal adoption/cover up. Gabriel is probably the child of someone else Sam had an affair with who popped up with this child and Sam had her get him adopted out and they covered up the entire thing. Annalise is just getting her career back on track, word that she orchestrated and illegal adoption, a secret she thought was dead and buried, is not the hit she wants. Especially not while she's reeling from Sr's death.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I think this is the only murder on the show where they showed the bloodiness and the victim whimpering near death. The other ones were either just off screen, or otherwise a bit sanitized, and we only the corpses after they were inert.

I question the choice to play into the "violent Black male" trope. Nate has always been a peaceful guy with an astounding handle on his temper. He never blew up before. I liked that about his character, that he was probably the most fit person on the entire show, but he always used his power in a disciplined way and wasn't given to  impulsiveness or a habit of inducing fear.

The showed Sam laying in a pool of blood and Rebecca whimpering and begging for air as Bonnie smothered her.

1 hour ago, Chairperson Meow said:

I think its clear that Gabriel is Sam's son with a mistress.  The flashbacks showed Annelise telling Sam "you like em weak", in reference to Lila, the student he cheated with in season one that kicked off the show.  That also leads me to believe that the adoption has to be Annelise trying to bully young Vivian Maddox into letting her and Sam adopt her child.  Gabriel has to be a year or two younger than Wes, who is 13 or 12 years older than Sam and Annelise's dead son.  After their son died, they said Sam and Annelise's marriage started to fail.  Knowing that Sam had a son out there alive while hers died probably was the proverbial nail in the coffin for their marriage, is my guess.   I'm guessing that they cast a Wes look alike to play on Wes being AK's surrogate son.   It is weird because Sam's son is a Wes clone and AK's two surrogate sons are Connor and Wes.  Connor looks similar to Sam and Wes looks like Gabriel.  Good job by casting.  Also that last shot was creepy as hell.

Please look beyond skin color. Wes is tall (6'4"), thin and lanky. Gabriel is not. He's much shorter and has a more muscular upper body  (5'9 - 6ft depending on the website you check). They look NOTHING alike except for being brown. This is starting to remind me of season 3 when Asher almost got his butt kicked because he touched another woman thinking it was Micheala and other than being Black the woman looked nothing like Michaela.

 

Overall I enjoyed this episode. I knew Sam was involved somehow because Tom Verica had posted on twitter a while back that he was on set filming. 

Poor Connor. His parents are a mess. Still other than seeing his mom getting "alphabetted" by Asher, the wedding seem to go smoothly for them. The sad thing is I get the impression that Connor's mom's acting out was nothing new.

Asher pissed me off, twice. Once for what he did with Connor's mom and then the second time for having the nerve to look wistfully at Micheala while Oliver was singing to Connor.

So who is Frank talking to?  I almost want to say it's Hannah. Frank's sister knew Hannah and got Frank involved in getting him out of prison. My only issue with that is Hannah hates Annalise. If she knew about an illegal adoption, I'm sure she would have used it against Annalise. Maybe Eve? Annaise would have confided in Eve. But why would Eve be talking to Frank? To keep tabs on Annalise from afar since Eve went off to be with another woman? Maybe. Unless it's a yet unknown character Eve make the most sense to me. 

As for Gabriel himself, I don't think he's up to any good. Otherwise he would have told Annalise who he is. My guess is this is a child who's mom popped up kid in toe and surprised Sam. Perhaps just as he was up for tenure. Maybe she's a former patient with a substance abuse problem. Sam had Annalise arrange an illegal adoption to whisk the child away and the mother was put away somewhere or paid off. That second ID he has may be why Annalise didn't recognize the name. I'm not sure if it's blackmail or revenge he's after.

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