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Special: The Jehovah's Witnesses

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6 hours ago, Readalot said:

Yrust me, JW’s read the Bible. The y go to the hall three times a week. Lots of bible studying and reading. 

But the bible they study is THEIR version, which was modified to reflect the JW beliefs.  One of the signs of a cult is their habit of editing things to fit their own point of view.  A person can read and study forever, but if what they are reading is slanted (JWs, Scientologists), they are only fooling themselves.

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15 hours ago, Readalot said:

I was raised JW from birth until I left home after HS graduation. I did not get baptized which was unusual. I can’t wait to see this and then I will comment. - Yrust me, JW’s read the Bible. The y go to the hall three times a week. Lots of bible studying and reading. I have to say the JW people I grew up around are some of the nicest people on earth.  - Over the years  half of my family and extended family left and half stayed including my mom and brother. I asked her to not preach to me anymore a few years back. And yes since I remember in the early 70’s the end of the world was near was preached . Lot of fear growning up, we were all so anxious.  Any yes, for the most part it was joyless. 

Please do tell us after you've watched the show what you think, how you feel, etc.  I know the JW's read the Bible because they carry one around with them on their walks.  Someone in the group will be carrying a Bible, and they also hand out their pamphlets or leave their literature on unanswered doors.

9 hours ago, AZChristian said:

But the bible they study is THEIR version, which was modified to reflect the JW beliefs.  One of the signs of a cult is their habit of editing things to fit their own point of view.  A person can read and study forever, but if what they are reading is slanted (JWs, Scientologists), they are only fooling themselves.

The JWs have their own version of the bible, The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.  It's not the King James version of the Holy Bible or the Catholic Holy Bible.

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This was wrenching. I had to watch it in two parts. And I knew a lot of this. Just heartbreaking. 

I remember when I was a teenager, the JWs in our neighborhood were so relentless that on Saturdays mornings, we kept a spare purse by the door so my sisters and mom and I could sling it over our shoulders and say we were just leaving. I'm more direct now. Like, "Get off my property now," followed by a promise that I will call the police if they don't. One dude started yelling at me asking what he had done wrong. I said trespassing, and he left, then when my husband pulled up he blocked him from getting out of the car (my husband had opened the door and the man was leaning in trying to preach to him). I am a very small woman, but before my husband could even react, I was out the door and yelling with such rage (some put-on, I admit) that they have never come back. They pass my house, eyes down. Sometimes I am on my porch and see them. I don't gloat or goad them. I ignore. But I'm ready to go off again if they come near us. 

I still see the face of a lovely young woman who came to the ER where I worked in 1986 and refused a blood transfusion. I think I was one of the witnesses to the form she signed that she understood the risks and was refusing. It was awful. I don't know if she lived or died. Many years later, I was a home hospice RN and had a JW patient. There was always a crowd in the house, not all family, not one of them concerned about my client, but rather clearly there to try to convert me. I had to use every trick I had to get near the client and give any kind of care, but every time, I found pamphlets stuck in the pockets of my bag, which I never left unattended (someone would have made a great pickpocket). They were relentless. I had to fight through a battalion of JWs trying to get me to talk about their religion before I could get near my client, if I even managed.  I was actually glad that I went on vacation and wasn't there when the client died. It was usually the opposite--no matter how close I'd gotten to the client, I wanted to be there for them and their family, because I was their nurse and they knew me better than the night or weekend nurses. I honestly think the needless pain and lack of concern for a dying loved (?) one still informs how intolerant I am of these people preaching to me. 

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3 hours ago, Darian said:

I still see the face of a lovely young woman who came to the ER where I worked in 1986 and refused a blood transfusion. I think I was one of the witnesses to the form she signed that she understood the risks and was refusing. It was awful. I don't know if she lived or died. Many years later, I was a home hospice RN and had a JW patient. There was always a crowd in the house, not all family, not one of them concerned about my client, but rather clearly there to try to convert me. I had to use every trick I had to get near the client and give any kind of care, but every time, I found pamphlets stuck in the pockets of my bag, which I never left unattended (someone would have made a great pickpocket). They were relentless. I had to fight through a battalion of JWs trying to get me to talk about their religion before I could get near my client, if I even managed.  I was actually glad that I went on vacation and wasn't there when the client died. It was usually the opposite--no matter how close I'd gotten to the client, I wanted to be there for them and their family, because I was their nurse and they knew me better than the night or weekend nurses. I honestly think the needless pain and lack of concern for a dying loved (?) one still informs how intolerant I am of these people preaching to me. 

So much this. My cousin died because my aunt and uncle refused a blood transfusion for her. She was a minor, so some authority managed to get a court order to force them to give her one, but it was too late. And what I remember most from that is being somewhere in the hospital and even though the room was full because all of my family was there, and I felt so alone, because I felt like I was the only person from the family that was sad she died. They had various hospital people there, and my family was trying to tell them how it was a good thing, because now she will be resurrected because the family stood firm in their beliefs. They sent the hospital chaplain down, and all my grandpa wanted to do was tell him how he was a minister for Jehovah's Witnesses and get in to a doctrinal debate with him about the scriptures and what they had to say about blood. The hospital chaplain didn't take the bait, graciously said something to the effect of then he was going to go and let the family grieve, since my grandpa seemed to have it covered. I was only 8 or 9 at the time, and I remember comprehending on some level that the chaplain wasn't afraid of my grandpa's superior knowledge, he just was trying to be a decent person. I never did feel like anyone thought twice about her as a person after she died, she was just a symbol of how much faith my aunt and uncle had to let her die.

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1 hour ago, estellasmum said:

So much this. My cousin died because my aunt and uncle refused a blood transfusion for her. She was a minor, so some authority managed to get a court order to force them to give her one, but it was too late. And what I remember most from that is being somewhere in the hospital and even though the room was full because all of my family was there, and I felt so alone, because I felt like I was the only person from the family that was sad she died. They had various hospital people there, and my family was trying to tell them how it was a good thing, because now she will be resurrected because the family stood firm in their beliefs. They sent the hospital chaplain down, and all my grandpa wanted to do was tell him how he was a minister for Jehovah's Witnesses and get in to a doctrinal debate with him about the scriptures and what they had to say about blood. The hospital chaplain didn't take the bait, graciously said something to the effect of then he was going to go and let the family grieve, since my grandpa seemed to have it covered. I was only 8 or 9 at the time, and I remember comprehending on some level that the chaplain wasn't afraid of my grandpa's superior knowledge, he just was trying to be a decent person. I never did feel like anyone thought twice about her as a person after she died, she was just a symbol of how much faith my aunt and uncle had to let her die.

Oh, estellasmum, I am so very sorry for your loss. It's always hard to lose someone but it's heartbreaking that (I keep trying to say this in a way that isn't offensive or hurtful)  your family's religious beliefs made it even harder. 

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On 11/25/2018 at 7:00 AM, AZChristian said:

But the bible they study is THEIR version, which was modified to reflect the JW beliefs.  One of the signs of a cult is their habit of editing things to fit their own point of view.  A person can read and study forever, but if what they are reading is slanted (JWs, Scientologists), they are only fooling themselves.

And don't they count on the Watchtower to interpret what they read in the Bible? 

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My maternal grandmother got suckered in by the JWs when my mom was in college in the 60s.  They caught her at a time when she was questioning the catholic faith she was raised in (timing is everything, I guess).  My mom’s 3 younger brothers who were still at home became JW.  She also got my grandfather to join but he rarely went to Kingdom Hall or did much of anything.  My grandmother went all in but she never pushed it on us, probably because my dad is a Methodist minister and she knew it would be a waste of time.  Of my mom’s three brothers who converted with her, only one is still in it (very active) and my other uncle admitted that he was disfellowshipped by my uncle who’s still in it.  He will hang out and spend time with those of us who were never ‘in the truth’ but he won’t talk to my uncles that got out.  It’s all really weird.  

In the early 80s when I was in kinder or 1st grade my grandma had kidney cancer in 1 kidney.  However she couldn’t find a doctor in her small town that was willing to do the surgery to remove her kidney since she wouldn’t accept a blood transfusion.  It was really frustrating for my mom, although she actually found a doctor in our city that did surgery on JWs.  So my grandma stayed with us for 2 months for the surgery & recovery.  I never knew why until I got older.  I’ve been told (not sure if this is accurate) that they won’t accept blood but they can accept an organ (which would be full of someone else’s blood).  I don’t know if that’s really true or what is the distinction for them. 

The stuff about end times and Armageddon is so crazy.  My grandmother was obsessed with it and was convinced she would live to see it and was terrified of dying before Armageddon.  When the cancer came back over 20 years later and ravaged her body, she was still fighting to stay alive.  She was suffering and in pain with metastatis everywhere.   We were all praying for her suffering to end, but she just wouldn’t let go.  Eventually her body gave out and she passed away, but it was hard to see her suffering and still being so afraid to die.  It really made me angry.  Her funeral was boring and impersonal, other than when my mom’s older brother (the oldest child who is a devout catholic) stood up and spoke about her.  He had regretted not saying anything at my grandfather’s funeral several years earlier and was determined that something be said about my grandmother at her own funeral.  We all appreciated it.

I had a coworker who was JW and her granddaughter developed leukemia.  I remember she told me that the hospital filed something in court so they could treat the child properly with blood transfusions or whatever (my coworker and her daughter weren’t happy about it but there wasn’t much they could do).  I’m glad the hospital intervened—the child survived and recovered well, from what I remember.

Edited by Pavlov98 · Reason: Typos
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3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

And don't they count on the Watchtower to interpret what they read in the Bible? 

In my congregation many people used other versions than the New World. I don’t remember it ever bring an issue. And yes the Watchtower and the Awake were their interpretation of the Bible. 

And if you ever want to read a teen’a account of growing up a JW in the 70’s/80’s, read “confessions of a teenage Jesus jerk”. The movie is on Amazon. Read the book first, it’s 💯accurate to my and my cousin’s experiences. I give it an A+.  Looking forward to seeing this episode soon. 

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8 minutes ago, Readalot said:

Ugh it’s not showing On Demand nor any future episodes. 

It's still up in my On Demand.  It's in an additional episodes section.

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8 minutes ago, Readalot said:

Ugh it’s not showing On Demand nor any future episodes. 

I have Comcast (yeah, yeah, I know) and it's showing for on On Demand under Additional Episodes. I've never done this, but I found it on A&E's site and it says you can sign in through your provider and watch. I don't know if that will work, but I hope you find it somehow. 

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4 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

It's still up in my On Demand.  It's in an additional episodes section.

Found it there thanks!  I can only record the next episode which is tomorrow. I tried the a&e app but I don’t know my provider password, it’s attached to my hubs email so I need to ask him 

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A lot of ex-Mormons (see https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/) are really hoping Leah takes on that particular cult. (Quick fact, gays are still outcasts, and the teen suicide rate in Utah is rising alarmingly.) I wonder if that will happen, though, because the Mormon church has a lot more assets than Scientology or JW—estimated to be in the billions, and zero transparency. Mostly controlled by a lot of very old white guys.

Edited by kieyra
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19 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

And don't they count on the Watchtower to interpret what they read in the Bible? 

I remember being a teen out in the driveway one summer washing my car at my parent's house as I was in college and still lived with them. A couple of JWs came by and I only noticed when they were right on top of me. They gave me one of their tracts and I told them I was too busy to talk and had to go inside for something. They left. When I looked at the tract, I noticed that it mixed verses from Old Testament scripture with verses from New Testament scriptures, or vice-versa, or one book of the Bible with another book of the Bible, to attain the meaning and interpretation they wanted to convey.

It reminded me of what my freshmen year (Roman Catholic high school) religion teacher told us that just because something appears in the Bible doesn't mean what has been interpreted is in context, and context means a lot. The example he gave - which was a wild exaggeration, but drives home the point - was that someone could say that "you shouldn't 'dance on your roof while wearing a red hat on Sunday'" because while all the words are in the Bible, they are taken way out of context.

My parents told me that for several years after, and even after I moved out after college, those same JWs would stop by to see if I was home to talk to me.

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A & E constantly reruns episodes.  It's Tuesday night in the 8PM time slot and I'm watching the Emotional Aftermath  episode right now. There will be a new ep on at 9,  which, if I don't find it on On Demand,  I'll probably watch next week at 8 because of a scheduling conflict. 

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22 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

I remember being a teen out in the driveway one summer washing my car at my parent's house as I was in college and still lived with them. A couple of JWs came by and I only noticed when they were right on top of me. They gave me one of their tracts and I told them I was too busy to talk and had to go inside for something. They left. When I looked at the tract, I noticed that it mixed verses from Old Testament scripture with verses from New Testament scriptures, or vice-versa, or one book of the Bible with another book of the Bible, to attain the meaning and interpretation they wanted to convey.

It reminded me of what my freshmen year (Roman Catholic high school) religion teacher told us that just because something appears in the Bible doesn't mean what has been interpreted is in context, and context means a lot. The example he gave - which was a wild exaggeration, but drives home the point - was that someone could say that "you shouldn't 'dance on your roof while wearing a red hat on Sunday'" because while all the words are in the Bible, they are taken way out of context.

My parents told me that for several years after, and even after I moved out after college, those same JWs would stop by to see if I was home to talk to me.

Many evangelicals do the picky-choosy thing from the bible to prove their point.  Jack Van Impe is a prime example.  We once attended a church where the "pastor" did the same thing (I'm hesitant to give him that title because he was a joke).

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I think covering other religions gets away from the core that Remini knows.  I did not care for this episode at all and will likely not watch others like it.  Someone from JW came to my house recently and she looked stoned with glassy eyes.  I left her husband outside on sidewalk, he looked high.  I worried she was casing out the house to steal from me later.  No idea.

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On 11/28/2018 at 9:59 AM, funky-rat said:

Many evangelicals do the picky-choosy thing from the bible to prove their point.  Jack Van Impe is a prime example.  We once attended a church where the "pastor" did the same thing (I'm hesitant to give him that title because he was a joke).

Ergo, why we are still Christians but do not attend church.

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I was always taught as a kid not to answer the door if they came. It scared me so much, that I'd literally hide so they wouldn't be able to see me, as if they had x-ray vision. I did go to school with 2 sisters who were JW and all we knew was not to feel bad for not giving them Valentines; they weren't able to receive them due to their religion. All of us accepted that explaination and no one felt the need to question it.

I wish Leah would do more episodes like this because its interesting to learn about relgions, espedially those that are cloaked in such secrecy.

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:23 AM, AZChristian said:

Ergo, why we are still Christians but do not attend church.

Us too.  Just when I think I find a church I like, someone outs themselves as racists, homophobes, or anti-semites, and down the road we go again.

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On 11/17/2018 at 2:44 PM, Absolom said:

The living room and family room in this house are on the back.  I'll never have another house with the room I sit in open to view from the front of the house again.  I can peacefully go through life pretending I don't hear them knock on the door.  :)

My old house had a sidelight next to the front door from which one could see all the way through the house to the sunroom, which was where I could usually be found on a Sunday morning lounging in my underwear, enjoying a book and some coffee.  I cheerfully waved and "toasted" many a sidelight-peeping JW with my coffee cup, but would refuse to come to the door...though the sight of me strolling towards them in my t-shirt and undies might have sent them packing for good!  

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On 11/14/2018 at 11:45 AM, libgirl2 said:

I just remembered when I first moved to the area I live in now, two elderly women came to my door. They were sweet and asked me if I had heard of the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. Stupid me, not knowing who they were, said of course! They talked a bit and asked if they could come back.... I started to feel weird about it all and just said maybe. They came back a time later and I didn't answer the door... Maybe that's why I would just rather not talk to them. I get to easily into the conversation because I feel bad. 

The only Four Horsemen I've ever known of were the group of wrestlers in the WCW (World Championship Wrestling) that I saw on TV. I don't think the JWs would have been very pleased with that answer though. A couple of them came to my home in the middle of last month. It was two older women one was white and the other black. They were talking about grief, the holidays and left me with a little booklet about grief. The black woman never spoke and let the white woman do all the talking. One weird thing the speaking woman kept doing was stopping what she was saying every so often to tell me I was really pretty which freaked me out. I know what I look like and pretty isn't a word I would use. They didn't try to convert me or really ask me anything and haven't been back as of yet. As someone else mentioned the white woman that spoke had what looked like really glassy crazy eyes and it was the first thing I noticed about her after opening the door. The booklet about grief had things one normally reads and hears about it, then in each bottom corner of the pages there were what I guess were bible quotes which I didn't pay much attention to. 

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This surprised me because I thought I would be a bit boring given all we know about Scientology. I was thinking it would be more of the same, and was astounded by some of the stories, just heartbreaking, by the end I was actually wishing they’d devote a season to the JWs  

 

On on a side note, what was with the guy in the grey suit and blue tie on the couch. Did he even speak?

Edited by summitsw
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And the local county sheriff couldn't figure out why anybody would want to bother this pacifistic group? I think I would start with disgruntled ex-JWs  who have lost family through their shunning process.  But that would just be a place to start.   I'm sure there are many more "internal" possibilities.

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3 hours ago, Skycatcher said:

And the local county sheriff couldn't figure out why anybody would want to bother this pacifistic group? I think I would start with disgruntled ex-JWs  who have lost family through their shunning process.  But that would just be a place to start.   I'm sure there are many more "internal" possibilities.

Yeah, I thought that was a bit strange. I didn't realize it was known as a pacifist religion. I grew up Quaker which is one of the historic peace churches (along with the Mennonites and Brethren). There are pacifist factions in all Christian denominations, but I was not aware it was a central tenant of The Jehovah's Witnesses. I'll have to do some reading on this.

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On 11/25/2018 at 8:00 AM, AZChristian said:

But the bible they study is THEIR version, which was modified to reflect the JW beliefs.  One of the signs of a cult is their habit of editing things to fit their own point of view.  A person can read and study forever, but if what they are reading is slanted (JWs, Scientologists), they are only fooling themselves.

Mormons, too, but isn't every faith's version of the scripture THEIR version? I guess I don't understand then why so many different bibles exist. I don't want to get into further trouble on this thread, but I would offer that every faith needs to take a good look at themselves through the outsider's test of faith (google it if interested, or PM me and I can discuss, I really just don't want to offend the good people in here, I know it's a sensitive subject). From outside, when enough questions get asked, ALL faiths start to seem weird. It's just that some have more adherents than others. Generally cults are similar to religions, except they don't have the same number of members, and they're younger. This is a stones / glass houses situation. It's one of the few things about this program, in fact, that I don't understand, how people can suddenly be so aghast by their former practice, but then are totally comfortable, as Leah is, going to a building on sunday and eating the LITERAL FLESH of a 2000 year old man. 

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One strong red flag of a cult is a member just can't decide to leave and do it easily. Like the Scientologists, some of these groups will stalk a leaver for years. New converts are brought in with friendship and then encouraged to share personal information with a confidant who then tells the powers that be. A determined cult knows a person's every secret and weakness and will use it all against them if "betrayed." The group isolates members as much as possible to narrow the circle of support.  It's like trying to get away from an ex-spouse who's sociopathic, borderline, or narcissistic. 

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On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 8:55 AM, Skycatcher said:

And the local county sheriff couldn't figure out why anybody would want to bother this pacifistic group? I think I would start with disgruntled ex-JWs  who have lost family through their shunning process.  But that would just be a place to start.   I'm sure there are many more "internal" possibilities.

Ha! That's exactly what I said when I saw it on the news.  

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On 12/6/2018 at 8:17 AM, Jaded said:

The only Four Horsemen I've ever known of were the group of wrestlers in the WCW (World Championship Wrestling) that I saw on TV. I don't think the JWs would have been very pleased with that answer though. A couple of them came to my home in the middle of last month. It was two older women one was white and the other black. They were talking about grief, the holidays and left me with a little booklet about grief. The black woman never spoke and let the white woman do all the talking. One weird thing the speaking woman kept doing was stopping what she was saying every so often to tell me I was really pretty which freaked me out. I know what I look like and pretty isn't a word I would use. They didn't try to convert me or really ask me anything and haven't been back as of yet. As someone else mentioned the white woman that spoke had what looked like really glassy crazy eyes and it was the first thing I noticed about her after opening the door. The booklet about grief had things one normally reads and hears about it, then in each bottom corner of the pages there were what I guess were bible quotes which I didn't pay much attention to. 

You let them in your house?!?!?! Lort! ;)

On 12/10/2018 at 3:13 PM, Uncle JUICE said:

Mormons, too, but isn't every faith's version of the scripture THEIR version? I guess I don't understand then why so many different bibles exist. I don't want to get into further trouble on this thread, but I would offer that every faith needs to take a good look at themselves through the outsider's test of faith (google it if interested, or PM me and I can discuss, I really just don't want to offend the good people in here, I know it's a sensitive subject). From outside, when enough questions get asked, ALL faiths start to seem weird. It's just that some have more adherents than others. Generally cults are similar to religions, except they don't have the same number of members, and they're younger. This is a stones / glass houses situation. It's one of the few things about this program, in fact, that I don't understand, how people can suddenly be so aghast by their former practice, but then are totally comfortable, as Leah is, going to a building on sunday and eating the LITERAL FLESH of a 2000 year old man

Let me just say, agreed!

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1 hour ago, DrSparkles said:

You let them in your house?!?!?! Lort! ;)

No, I didn't. They stood on my porch the entire time.

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Well I didn’t watch all of it. Too painful, as most of my family is still involved. I will say I have full access to my family with no issues. I did not get baptized like most of my JW friends did during our teens. I left once I graduated HS when I went to college. I will say the last year I went to the meetings I called back quite a few times for elder meetings. They kept wanting to know why I was leaving once I graduated (my mom told them). I answers all their answers truthfully and they really could not argue. I know they thought I would be back since I was an exemplary “sister”. Honestly I have found memories of them. They all treated me as a daughter as I was growing up. I never saw or personally experienced any malicious, I can say they are the nicest group of people I’ve have known. - if I didnt mention It before I asked my mom in the last year to stop preaching to me and she has complied. I have no tolerance for all the child molestation Coverups  I’ve been hearing about. About once a year I have a very strong realistic dream that I’m drawn back to the Kingdom Hall because I realize it’s the truth. I usually wake up crying. I guess 18 years in this cult does get to me. 

Edited by Readalot
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The JWs seem to be such a joyless group. As with Scientology, they have to spend so much time on studying church materials and attending meetings to discuss said materials. There's no time for any inappropriate behaviors.  So many extreme religious movements practice forms of isolation of active members and shunning for those who leave. Those who leave feel so abandoned. I am Jewish but I was raised in a family that did not practice the religion. Thank goodness. 

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On 12/2/2018 at 8:46 PM, sunshine23 said:

I wish Leah would do more episodes like this because its interesting to learn about relgions, espedially those that are cloaked in such secrecy.

I think she should stick to Co$, but I hope this episode might motivate someone to start a similar program.  Other than Michael Jackson (RIP) and his sister, I have no knowledge of ex-JW celebs, but then I don't know any celebs who are practicing JWs either.  We did have a friend who converted the Mormons who came to his door to the Episcopal church, but he had no luck with JWs.

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My vote would be that Leah and Mike stick with the Co$ also.  They are so uniquely qualified to speak about this and it is going to take a really concentrated effort to make any difference from a legal standpoint to take this horrible organization down.  Every time I watch the show, I am just SO thankful that the two of them are bringing all of this horrible stuff to light.  If they water down what they are doing by talking about other cults, it may all be in vain.  This disaster has to stop and I don’t know any other way to do it other than exposing the truth and giving the authorities a road map.  Lord knows they aren’t doing anything on their own, and I’m beginning to fear that it’s because they have been paid off (LAPD, IRS, etc.)

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On 1/28/2019 at 1:27 PM, Twopper said:

Other than Michael Jackson (RIP) and his sister, I have no knowledge of ex-JW celebs, but then I don't know any celebs who are practicing JWs either. 

Prince was a JW convert. Also, as others have mentioned the Williams sisters are JW. According to Nicki Swift, other practicing JWs are a couple of the Wayans brothers, and Coco Rocha.

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