S20.E09: Mea Culpa

[dttruman]

Description is from IMDb, "Stone asks Benson to investigate a sexual assault from his past that he feels guilt and uncertainty about; Rollins considers a proposal from Al."

[dttruman]

Here is a clip on Youtube.

 

At the 2:00 mark, Fin challenges Stone concerning his honesty. But it sounds like something Benson would say. To me, Fin would only say "you're not lying to me are you" very forcefully and only say it once. Instead Fin drags it on for a few more seconds and it reminds me of Benson.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Read that Mariska directed this episode 

 

This is not good, could be the knockout punch for Stone/Phillip on SVU.

[Xeliou66]

Stone isn’t leaving the show and it’s obvious he won’t be guilty, but I don’t like how soapy they are getting with Stone’s personal life, and I have a feeling this will be another “Benson saves the day” episode, and I’m afraid it will result in Stone becoming closer to her and more of a Benson puppet. While I like how Stone has gone to Fin about the allegation and not Benson, Fin is the most stable and objective member of SVU and thus the best to handle the situation, I have a feeling in the end it will all revolve around Benson. 

I’m just curious as to how the plot will resolve itself, will the woman be lying for some reason or will she have been raped by someone else and is confused? I think the latter, because the show rarely portrays false rape allegations because of the massive feminist/victims advocacy bias of Mariska.

[dttruman]

I believe since she is directing this episode, her appearances will probably minimal. But when she does show up, it will be one of her more heroic or judgemental moments.

I also wonder how this will compare to the previous episode. Both episodes appear to deal with rapes or so-called rapes that happened more than 10 years ago. It seem like drugs and alcohol were involved in the previous episode and just alcohol in this one. In the previous episode, things were not exactly clear cut until a convenient confession was thrown into the story line. I wonder how much of it will be left up to the viewers?

Edited November 13, 2018 by dttruman

[ForeverAlone]

I can't imagine the show will want the audience to think Peter is actually a rapist after this episode (because yeah, this isn't his exit episode), so it will be interesting to see how they resolve the problem. My guess is that she mistakenly identified him, or maybe she was paid off by some enemy of Peter's. 

[Xeliou66]

Yes this will definitely be resolved, either the victim is mistaken was assaulted by someone else, or she’s falsely accusing Stone for some reason, I think it will be that she was assaulted by someone else and misidentified Stone.

One thing that I’m hoping for in this episode is a Jack McCoy reference, he hasn’t been mentioned once this season, and with one of his ADA’s under investigation for rape, especially one that he has a fairly close relationship with, it seems like he would be closely monitoring the situation. I wish he would appear occasionally, but I hope we get a mention of him by name in this episode.

[CrystalBlue]

Why do they have to put this "Peter in Peril" storyline on our TV screens?  We know that Stone isn't a rapist, just a randy guy who is supposedly having threesomes and hitting on young hot honeys because he's grieving over the death of his sister.  FWIW, Philip Winchester may have a nice body, but his face doesn't fit the way they've written the character.  It seems uncharacteristic of his persona, and being Ben Stone's son, at least to me anyway.

I think there will be more PC preaching or SJW-ing from The World According To Benson in the episode.  That can only explain why they're going this route.

[dttruman]

15 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I can't imagine the show will want the audience to think Peter is actually a rapist after this episode (because yeah, this isn't his exit episode), so it will be interesting to see how they resolve the problem. My guess is that she mistakenly identified him, or maybe she was paid off by some enemy of Peter's. 

 

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes this will definitely be resolved, either the victim is mistaken was assaulted by someone else

I think we all will agree, once she has a "heart to heart" with Benson, she will suddenly (and conveniently) remember the incident and Stone is cleared. Will it be Benson and her low toned monologue or will Benson do another "walk through"?

I don't think this will be one of those conspiracy, where Hodges calls in some favors to have Stone framed or even a major conspiracy where Hodges' (behind the curtains) bosses who were grooming him to be top level politician. They dig into Stone's past and come up with this girl and get her to level charges against him.

[WendyCR72]

Saw a commercial for this one. And yikes, even in that short promo, MH was hammy. Like Easter Ham-sized hammy. Carisi was saying how maybe they should give Stone the benefit of the doubt, while Benson was all, "What do WE owe HER?!"

Um...I'm with Carisi. (Look, we all know Stone is going to be innocent, so there's that. But they have also worked with Stone for a while, and Benson just wants to throw him to the wolves? What the hell?)

Either way, the promo was painful. To me, anyway. Overwrought.

[Xeliou66]

Benson believes any man is guilty just because they have a penis, I mean she even fears Noah is going to become bad because his father was bad, it seems to me that she’s brought her distrust of men home to her own son. So it won’t be surprising if Benson automatically assumes Stone is guilty. We all know Stone will be innocent, so what I’m hoping happens is that when the facts are uncovered and Stone is cleared, Benson will have to eat crow and apologize to Stone, but since St Olivia does no wrong anymore somehow I have a feeling this episode will end by making her look good.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Hope this will be the conclusion to Stone's  Dark Night Of Womanizing Drunken Soul.

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Carisi was saying how maybe they should give Stone the benefit of the doubt, while Benson was all, "What do WE owe HER?!"

 

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Benson will have to eat crow and apologize to Stone, but since St Olivia does no wrong anymore somehow I have a feeling this episode will end by making her look good.

According to the comments made above, two things will probably happen in this episode.

1. Since Stone is considered a suspect, Benson will be more objective than she has ever been in about 5-6years.

2. Since St. Olivia is never wrong, how incredible or outlandish will the resolution to this episode be to make her look good. Will there be some type of collateral damage like from the episode "Imposter"? Where Benson was so hell bent on bringing up a guy on rape, she browbeat the victim into filing rape charges. Ultimately the guy pled guilty to a lesser crime, but the victim's son committed suicide because of the embarrassment of her actions. I guess Benson only remembers her victories.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

And here we go!

[dttruman]

A little intrigue to start with, then it jumps right to the Rollin's soap opera.

I wonder with the rape case he is presently prosecuting, if he suddenly has a change of prospective after going through this incident that happened in the past.

Will the moral of this episode be, "Who is responsible if 2 adults are extremely intoxicated and have sex, is there actually a rape if nobody is at fault?"

Edited November 16, 2018 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Austin Peck is aging well.

 

Peter's don't tell Olivia, like she's his mommy.

 

Why is Rollins still dating the Creepy Doc?

[dttruman]

9 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Peter's don't tell Olivia, like she's his mommy.

You lose, he does.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I'm calling it now!

 

Stone's former teammate raped that woman, while he was passed out drunk.

[dttruman]

11 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I'm calling it now!

 

Stone's former teammate raped that woman, while he was passed out drunk.

Didn't they say this happened 12 years ago? How can they both be so sure about that incident, since they were both drunk and the time lapse?

[Fellaway]

OMG.  Her story is "credible" that it was Stone that raped her?  When she admits there were other men in the room and one on the bed with her and Stone when she passed out?  A 12-year-old case, with no physical evidence, no witnesses, two drunks who don't remember what happened and...  this is enough to make an arrest?  I could get this thrown out of court and I'm no lawyer.

[gaucho91]

13 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I'm calling it now!

 

Stone's former teammate raped that woman, while he was passed out drunk.

They aren’t being at all subtle.  There were “two people in that room”... really Olivia?  She just told you there were three people on the bed.

[Gigglepuff]

Well, I don't know how they're going to work this out, but Winchester is doing great tonight. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Called It!!

 

 

Am I the only one still wondering how Stone ended up at Fin's apt?

Edited November 16, 2018 by MrsRafaelBarba

[dttruman]

5 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Called It!!

You called it all right, but it was so convoluted as to how they arrived at the conclusion.

Edited November 16, 2018 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Phillip Winchester's best work this season so far IMHO. 

 

Really want Carisi to find love with someone else and let Rollins cook in her Dysfunctional life.

 

Fin was the one Stone first confided to, he should've closed the investigation.

Not Benson.

Edited November 16, 2018 by MrsRafaelBarba

[WineCheeseChocolat]

31 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

 

OMG.  Her story is "credible" that it was Stone that raped her?  When she admits there were other men in the room and one on the bed with her and Stone when she passed out?  A 12-year-old case, with no physical evidence, no witnesses, two drunks who don't remember what happened and...  this is enough to make an arrest?  I could get this thrown out of court and I'm no lawyer.

 

Not only that but an arrest of Rape One?!

[milner]

So if a guy holds a hostage in front of many witnesses with a gun loaded or otherwise there is no crime unless the victim pressed charges.   I find that hard to believe

[Fellaway]

It had to be Stone because he was the only one in the room when she woke up?  So Sarah has never heard of a person getting up and leaving a room?

And, geez, Show, try some subtlety.  Not telegraphing who the real perp was from the first time he appeared on screen would be a good thing.

The investigation side of this ep was really poorly written.  There was no investigation!  No evidence, no witnesses, just she said, he said, with Benson solving the case with a telephone call and the perp rolling over as soon as she cornered him.  They might as well call the show Murder, She Wrote.  

I'm still puzzling over Stone ending up at Fin's apartment.  I mean, why Fin's?  I'm surprised he even knew where Fin lived.  I mean, we've not seen any kind of relationship between them.  I'd give the show credit for his not showing up at Carisi's, because he didn't want a friend to know about this yet, but I'm thinking that'd be giving this ep too much credit.

I'm also puzzling over the show thinking, if it does, that what they've been writing for Stone will make us like him or relate to him, because it's having the exact opposite effect on me.  Man needs some therapy and apparently has done for years.  I don't want to see it onscreen, but he needs it.  And PW needs to learn a few more facial expressions.  He's as interesting as a mayo on white sandwich.

On the plus side, Carisi did feel more Carisi-like this episode, and I loved that he got to have some personal conversations with Rollins.  That was old school Carisi/Rollins friendship, something I've been missing this season.  More of that, please, Show!

Okay, I'm going to have to Bing Japanese toilets...

Edited November 16, 2018 by Fellaway

[dttruman]

This could have been a good episode ( I have been saying that a lot lately), but where did the writers come up with all these unreasonable explanation to set up these chain of events.

1. Why does Stone asking Fin and Benson to investigate, but then seems betrayed when Benson tells him the supposed rape victim's story seems credible?

2 How can Benson take for granted the victim's story, considering the point Fellaway makes

16 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Her story is "credible" that it was Stone that raped her?  When she admits there were other men in the room and one on the bed with her and Stone when she passed out?  A 12-year-old case, with no physical evidence, no witnesses, two drunks who don't remember what happened and...  this is enough to make an arrest?  I could get this thrown out of court and I'm no lawyer.

3 Benson attempts to get the guy to make a perjured statement to get Stone off, Is that a form of entrapment?

16 hours ago, milner said:

So if a guy holds a hostage in front of many witnesses with a gun loaded or otherwise there is no crime unless the victim pressed charges.   I find that hard to believe

I am still trying to figure out how Benson gets to take over the hostage situation, "since it is her case"? Wouldn't the hostage negotiator be the one more involved in this?

Edited November 16, 2018 by dttruman

[WineCheeseChocolat]

16 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Am I the only one still wondering how Stone ended up at Fin's apt?

It drives me crazy that everyone on this show just drops by everyone else’s apartments unexpectedly. It’s NYC, apartment buildings either have a doorman or you have to be buzzed up. But hey, I’m not going complain about more Fin in any way shape or form. 

PW is helluva fine (hey I like gingers) but please take the focus off his personal life and enough with the “Liv/Peter” BFF/manufactured romantic tension whatever they have going on.

[WineCheeseChocolat]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

I wonder with the rape case he is presently prosecuting, if he suddenly has a change of prospective after going through this incident that happened in the past.

Will the moral of this episode be, "Who is responsible if 2 adults are extremely intoxicated and have sex, is there actually a rape if nobody is at fault?"

You see, something like that I think would’ve been interesting. Not it being the COTW but the COTW being “what constitutes consent in this day and age” and the squad reflecting back on their own experiences and situations they are looking at with a new perspective. Little glimpses into their pasts and how they feel about it, but not making the whole episode about it. Like how Old School SVU was back when the writers knew the meaning of subtlety.

[Gigi43]

 At one point the victim said she didn't remember the name of some one in the room but then later on she said some one named Wanda was there and also Reggie and Wanda left. I get she was holding on to the whole "but Stone was there when I woke up" but really? That means it was Stone and Stone alone? This whole thing was sloppy. 

 

Uh to how Liv talked in the beginning  of the episode,  once again, that a woman wouldn't go to trial unless she felt violated so the guy was guilty , as if April Troost, those girls paid by the team CEO to accuse the basketball player, Mr Jackie, the guy that had a twin and was accused of his crimes and others we've seen her investigate never happened. Of course they didn't go back to the case that comment was in reference too because Stone is now the one guy to be wrongly accused in Livs world.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Gigi43

[wknt3]

The Good:
Phillp Winchester's performance. He did a good job making a silk's purse out of a sow's anus (this story can only wish it was good enough to be a sow's ear!) Probably his best work of the series so far.
Fin, Carisi and Rollins reacting to the accusations. It was believable - conflicted and nuanced.
Alexandra Breckenridge also gave a really good performance in an episode where the writing and directing were not necessarily conducive to doing her best work.
Fin - he continues to be the rock of professionalism and common sense even when everyone is getting bogged down in philosophizing and personal angst.

The Bad:
So the one subplot they managed to find time for was Rollins' continuing stupidity and her interminable baby daddy drama?
Once again SVU just does what it wants without any supervision or even a nod to being part of a larger world. Even back in the campiest, twistiest Barr years I seem to remember them at least having a line of dialogue about the brass or the DA's office. But I guess that now Benson is a law unto herself?
Another hostage situation. Really???? At this point they shouldn't call ESU they should call FFSU.
Way too much of Julie Martin's clunky sermonizing and spending too much time promoting an agenda instead of compelling drama.
Pretty much the entire last 30 minutes or so were a waste of time. I think we all figured out what really happened that night (maybe we should be elite detectives?) and it was pretty much ridiculous overused nonsense plot devices and speechifying to get us where we all knew we were going.
The OTT Benson worship throughout the episode, which I guess is only to only to be expected when Mariska directs.

Overall this was better than what I expected thanks to some fine acting from the non-Hargitay cast and Chernuchin not being willing to let his pet character be completely trashed, but the fact that it wasn't as bad as the previous heavily promoted sweeps episodes devoted to promoting People's Choice Nominee Mariska Hargitay and stroking her ego doesn't mean that it was good. Better than "Motherly Love" or "Something Happened" is not a high bar to clear after all. We can only hope this ends the "Stone expressing his grief by womanizing and acting out" arc and that the show gets back on the generally positive course it was on before this episode.

Edited November 16, 2018 by wknt3
autocorrect fail

[dttruman]

16 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

Uh to how Liv talked in the beginning  of the episode,  once again, that a woman wouldn't go to trial unless she felt violated so the guy was guilty

At the beginning when the first rape victim testified. She said that if she could confront the man who raped her, she could get justice and get her life back. It sounds like something Benson has been preaching. I sympathize with rape victims, especially the ones that are not drunk and are brutally injured in the process. When we have a "He said, She said" situation, as mentioned by someone earlier, mixed in with a lot of alcohol, it makes me wonder. Is a woman desperately trying to regain her virtue by claiming "rape", so as not to expose her reckless behavior?

[ChristiKRN]

I know this is fictional, but shouldn't the squad have recused themselves from investigating this case due to a conflict of interest?  If the case had gone to trial, any evidence they had found that supported Stone's case could have been viewed as shady.  

I thought Philip Winchester did a good job tonight, also.  I was half-expecting Stone to bow down at the feet of St. Olivia and apologize to her for making her have any doubts about him; thank God he didn't- I couldn't have stomached that.  

I did like the scene of Fin, Carisi, and Rollins discussing their feelings about Stone and the case.  It was very realistic.  

Tonight was Peter Scanavino's 100th episode as Carisi.  Would have liked to have seen him more prominently featured.  It also appeared that we saw a hint of jealous Carisi again when he was talking to Rollins about Dr. Al. Let it go, Carisi!!

I also agree that the elite squad didn't look so elite tonight when not a single one of them suspected that it could have been the other guy she was making out with besides Stone. I guessed it within seconds of him being introduced. 

[SuzieQ]

This came across as a total time filler episode.  They threw the conclusion at us mid episode, so there was nothing in the 2nd half to "figure out."  This gorgeous woman half of Stone's age just walks up to him at a hot dog stand and they go for drinks?  I get that he's a former baseball player, but not sure a 20 something would recognize him.  They keep stuffing it down our throats what a whore he is and I don't really get the purpose.  His personal life is getting as insufferable as Benson's.

 

Why was that drivel about douche bag doctor asking Rollins to move in with him even in the episode?  No one cares.

Edited November 16, 2018 by SuzieQ

[lala2]

What really bothered me about this episode was how Liv kept acting like it was a slam dunk case. The victim said she was drunk, passed out, and woke up w/Peter in the bed w/her. She didn't go to the room alone. She went there w/two other ppl. For all she knew, another person assaulted her. She just assumed it was Peter b/c he was in bed w/her, but that wasn't rock solid evidence. The whole thing was really messy, but Liv was acting like it was such a strong case. I was scratching my head and wondering what I was missing b/c it wasn't strong at all. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by lala2

[Xeliou66]

That wasn’t as bad as I expected, there were good and bad parts.

We all knew Stone wouldn’t be guilty, and I called the shot immediately that Stone’s ballplayer friend was the actual rapist, and I wondered why it didn’t come up sooner that another player who was at the hotel could’ve been the one who assaulted Sarah. 

There wasn’t nearly enough evidence to arrest Stone, someone claiming rape isn’t good enough, she didn’t even remember that Stone assaulted her for sure, SVU should know that that isn’t nearly enough to arrest him, and what DA would back up the arrest?

Speaking of the DA’s, where was the drama as far as an ADA being under investigation? Not one reference to McCoy, who it seems would get personally involved with one of his ADA’s, especially one he knows well, under investigation for rape. No reference to who would be prosecuting Stone’s case, and no reference to the implications of having an ADA under investigation, they’ve forgotten the existence of McCoy and Dodds. 

On the positive side, Carisi and Fin were great as usual and I liked the conversations between Fin, Carisi and Rollins. I really liked that Stone went to Fin when he was accused of rape, Fin is the most unbiased and reliable SVU detective, and he was also the one who got along well with Stone from the start and the 2 have always had a mutual respect. I just wish it had been Fin who made the arrest at the end, but no St Olivia has to get all of the glory and save the day once again.

I’m so sick of the Benson worship from everyone, although she didn’t hog the screentime as badly in this episode, probably because Mariska was directing. And can we dial down the Stone/Benson relationship some, I feel like they are pushing some romantic shipping there as well as a BFF relationship, I don’t want to see a repeat of what the Benson/Barba relationship became. 

And I really disliked the pointless subplot of Rollins and Al, Al reeks of being a phony and it seems like even Rollins who frequently has poor judgment would see through Al, maybe she is starting to. But that crap was a waste of time. 

[preeya]

All wrapped up with a nice bow, thanks to St. Olivia.

[auchic]

What the shit was that? Did this episode really need a hostage situation and a possible rape baby? Guess it's easier than having good writers come up with compelling and engaging plots that don't revolve around just Olivia saving the day.

 

Gotta say, the salt-and-pepper thing Austin from Days had going on was FOINE (but my god does it make me feel old...I had such a crush on him in high school!)

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I'm calling it now!

 

Stone's former teammate raped that woman, while he was passed out drunk.

Thank God for threesomes!  There's someone else to blame it on.

But seriously, this was a she said/he said/he was also there so anything could have happened case.  Everyone was drunk out of their minds, blacking out, and then they KNOW what happened the next day, because while being in an alcoholic blackout, nothing could go wrong, right?

[CrystalBlue]

So the message I got was that we must always believe the woman because no woman would ever go through a rape trial if she didn't have to, so all accusers are real victims.  Logic by Olivia Benson.  The only forensic evidence they got out of this case was that the accuser's husband is indeed the biological father of their daughter.  No charges will be pressed against looney Gary because Stone is such a fine man?  What about all those people in the bar who had to evacuate?  Brandishing a weapon in public?  Anything?

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, lala2 said:

What really bothered me about this episode was how Liv kept acting like it was a slam dunk case. The victim said she was drunk, passed out, and woke up w/Peter in the bed w/her. She didn't go to the room alone. She went there w/two other ppl. For all she knew, another person assaulted her. She just assumed it was Peter b/c he was in bed w/her, but that wasn't rock solid evidence. The whole thing was really messy, but Liv was acting like it was such a strong case. I was scratching my head and wondering what I was missing b/c it wasn't strong at all. 

I don't know if anyone here ever watched Veronica Mars. Her rape is very much like this and it is a messy mess with poor recollections by many parties. Veronica goes to a party, is drugged, wakes up the next morning with no recollection of what happened and missing her underwear. At least 4 guys were suspected of raping her. Two of them did have sex with her that night. It takes her 2 seasons to figure out what happened. Even when she figured it out, she knew it wasn't really going anywhere legally.

[dttruman]

58 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know if anyone here ever watched Veronica Mars. Her rape is very much like this and it is a messy mess with poor recollections by many parties. Veronica goes to a party, is drugged, wakes up the next morning with no recollection of what happened and missing her underwear. At least 4 guys were suspected of raping her. Two of them did have sex with her that night. It takes her 2 seasons to figure out what happened. Even when she figured it out, she knew it wasn't really going anywhere legally.

Now that was a well written show! If they had hired that show's producer and writers we wouldn't be here now criticizing SVU. We would be praising it out the Ying Yang! Great Beginning, excellent subplots mixed in, and a Great Ending with everything being believable, where she gets her justice, but I digress. SVU's story structure couldn't hold a candle to Veronica Mars and they didn't have a major budget like SVU

Edited November 16, 2018 by dttruman

[Fellaway]

5 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

Tonight was Peter Scanavino's 100th episode as Carisi. 

Or, as Michael Chernuchin calls him, "Caruso."  How bad is it (and disrespectful) when he doesn't know the ep is a milestone for one of the show's core characters/actors, nor even the character's name?  It doesn't bode well for any "Caruso"-centric stories this season.

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

I know this is fictional, but shouldn't the squad have recused themselves from investigating this case due to a conflict of interest?  If the case had gone to trial, any evidence they had found that supported Stone's case could have been viewed as shady.  

Exactly! But I thought, as long as they were going to follow this route, they would be even more fictitious, have it go to trial and Stone would defend himself.

5 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

This came across as a total time filler episode.

A perfect description, with very little substance.

[dttruman]

15 hours ago, lala2 said:

She went there w/two other ppl. For all she knew, another person assaulted her. She just assumed it was Peter b/c he was in bed w/her, but that wasn't rock solid evidence. The whole thing was really messy, but Liv was acting like it was such a strong case. I was scratching my head and wondering what I was missing b/c it wasn't strong at all. 

They need to retitle this episode to "Swiss Cheese" because it has so many holes in it.

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

We all knew Stone wouldn’t be guilty, and I called the shot immediately that Stone’s ballplayer friend was the actual rapist, and I wondered why it didn’t come up sooner that another player who was at the hotel could’ve been the one who assaulted Sarah. 

Considering they are known for coming up with unbelievable excuses to explain certain events. The only thing I knew for sure was that Wanda didn't impregnate Sarah, I think?

Edited November 16, 2018 by dttruman

[dttruman]

18 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

he doesn't know the ep is a milestone for one of the show's core characters/actors, nor even the character's name?  It doesn't bode well for any "Caruso"-centric stories this season.

I think the show's only core character is "Benson".

[Fellaway]

2 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I think the show's only core character is "Benson".

And Stone.

[dttruman]

20 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

And Stone.

They are bending over backwards to make him one and literally ignoring Carisi.

Edited November 16, 2018 by dttruman