S11.E06: Demons Of The Punjab

[Llywela]

Airdate: 11.11.2018

Episode Synopsis: Yaz attempts to discover her grandmother's hidden history

Oh, this was good. I really enjoyed this one - can Vinay Patel write some more? I felt like all the pieces really slotted into place here. The writing was more mature. The characters worked. The story was elegant. I cried.

[HauntedBathroom]

The Doctor goes to a place where a million people+ die. Someone dies. The glass aliens from Twice Upon A Time turn up, but they've had a make-over to look like the Fisher King. The Doctor marries someone, but does nothing else. The end. Meanwhite, the Gladiator soundtrack CD is worn down to sand, as the composer takes a week off.

It looked pretty, but it did feel very much like a story where the Doctor and companions were totally superfluous. In Rosa, at least the TARDIS team did something, they achieved something. Here, nothing.

Meanwhile, we've met as many of Yaz's relatives as we have Tegan's. and I still haven't got a clue who she is, or what she's for.

[John Potts]

There were a couple of good things about this episode. The Doctor making it clear that it can be really dangerous tampering with history, the (really old school) use of real historical events as essentially a learning tool for the viewer and a nice presentation of relative values in how Sheffield can sound "exotic" (not something I think many people who've been there would say.

But other than that... I just didn't care. Prem was so obviously slated to die it lacked any tension. At least when Pete Tyler died in Father's Day it was both tragic and heroic. Here, I couldn't help thinking Prem was just an idiot. And I thought the watch was going to break at some critical point (Prem's death, perhaps) but it was just dropped.

It was all just a bit lacklustre.

[Occasional Hope]

I thought this one was depressing.

[Llywela]

I really enjoyed it, sad ending and all. It told a simple, honest, emotional story about a moment in time that many people don't know much about - and, since one is a tragedy while a hundred is a mere statistic, it boiled the bigger picture down to something much smaller and more intimate. There don't have to be high stakes for a story to be worth telling. The Doctor doesn't always have to save the day - although whether or not she did here really depends on your perspective. Yaz's personal timeline was saved.

I found myself wondering when that final scene of Yaz and her Nani took place - in Yaz's future, after she leaves the TARDIS and returns home? Or does it imply visits home in between adventures? Either way, the conversation did not so much as hint at Umbreen recognising in her granddaughter the mysterious stranger who showed up at her wedding...and yet she chose to give Yaz that watch for a reason.

[Triskan]

I'm really curious to see the overall reaction on this one. I think it can be quite dividing.

Personally I really enjoyed it. A few slow scenes here and there, some rough editing sometimes, a few over the top moments, but overall nothing too dramatic and the general storyline, the emotions the episode wanted to convey was more or less on point.

Beautiful cinematography though, and really liked those new aliens and the twist on them ! I would be really curious to explore more of their culture so kuddos to the writer for that ! 

But I could understand why some will find it over the top at some point !

And I really wish we had a scene where the Tardis team explains who they are to Umbreen and asking her to keep it secret all these years, and then, at the end, we could have had a powerful scene where Yaz and her nanny finally share a strong moment... but it wasnt, and now we have to assume Umbreen just didnt recognize the similarity between her granddaughter and the strange woman at her wedding...

Though speaking of strange women, I wonder if she'd remember the Doctor...

Edited November 11, 2018 by Triskan

[elle]

Watched without CC, can someone please tell me where Prem was when he first saw the "demons"? Was it Guadalcanal?

5 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

I thought this one was depressing.

Depressing, yes, and heartbreaking, so much senseless death.  Poignant too.  I do not know if this was planned but seeing those red poppies today of all days, it seemed to add to the meaning of the episode.

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

I really enjoyed it, sad ending and all. It told a simple, honest, emotional story about a moment in time that many people don't know much about - and, since one is a tragedy while a hundred is a mere statistic, it boiled the bigger picture down to something much smaller and more intimate. There don't have to be high stakes for a story to be worth telling. The Doctor doesn't always have to save the day - although whether or not she did here really depends on your perspective. Yaz's personal timeline was saved.

Some of the best stories are the simplest.  I find myself wondering how the episode "The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve", a story about more senseless killing, more ordinary people whipped up into a mob, compares to this episode.

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

I found myself wondering when that final scene of Yaz and her Nani took place - in Yaz's future, after she leaves the TARDIS and returns home? Or does it imply visits home in between adventures? Either way, the conversation did not so much as hint at Umbreen recognising in her granddaughter the mysterious stranger who showed up at her wedding...and yet she chose to give Yaz that watch for a reason.

and

4 hours ago, Triskan said:

And I really wish we had a scene where the Tardis team explains who they are to Umbreen and asking her to keep it secret all these years, and then, at the end, we could have had a powerful scene where Yaz and her nanny finally share a strong moment... but it wasnt, and now we have to assume Umbreen just didnt recognize the similarity between her granddaughter and the strange woman at her wedding...

Though speaking of strange women, I wonder if she'd remember the Doctor...

This was one point I thought the story slipped up a bit.  I do think that it was right after the events of this episode, since there was a callback to the henna tattoo.  I would have preferred for Yaz to have her Nani tell her the story of the watch instead of saying for her to tell her another time.  Nani could have simply said that Yaz reminded her of someone she met then.

The way the doctor said "She made it" with the emphasis on "she" made me think that her mother did not.

Edited November 12, 2018 by elle

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this episode.  This season does historical stories very well and they are very much in the way of the Classic Doctor Who where the team ultimately can't interfere in what's happening.  This episode told a small story in a much larger historical event and they do that very well.  I liked the aliens as well, even if they didn't turn out to be villains.

I was interested in this story when it was announced because my best friend's family lived in India during this time.  They are Muslim and remained in India after the partition.  

Edited November 12, 2018 by benteen

[Chaos Theory]

I really liked this episode.  It told a very good story and I really like Yaz.  I am liking the way this season is handling the way it is telling “past stories”.      The story itself was very well done with the right amount of inevitable tragedy.  

This season is really working for me.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Bruinsfan]

I quite liked it. The cinematography was breathtaking, I felt like we got a good feel for the new guest characters, moments for Yaz and Graham to shine, and a cohesive, moving story that respected history rather better than I'm used to the new show doing. If anything they could have dropped all the fantastical elements other than the Doctor & Co.'s presence and just devoted the extra time to conversations about the Partition and the locals' history together.

[DanaK]

Wow, that was friggin' great. Very emotional and sad. It turns out the real demons were the marauding humans, especially the brother. I think this was perhaps the best episode of the season so far, yes even better than "Rosa", at least on an emotional level

I was caught by the misdirection with the "demon" aliens, though they should have just explained their purpose at the beginning. The fact that you felt their emotional pain was pretty good writing. That was a great, moving scene where they explained to the Doctor what they were doing

I was surprised that they got so detailed with the politics of the time, though it helped to tie in with the emotional content. I wonder if Pakistani and Indian viewers felt they got the details right? It was kind of hard to watch on an emotional level given the larger partition violence and deaths that really happened. As others said, the writers boiled the Partition story down to a few characters that still allowed you to feel the horror, emotion and waste of it

Did Umbreen just forget that the demons were supposedly going to return or did the gang explain they were gone? She sure didn't seem worried at the wedding about them returning. And she sure was kick-ass about the whole thing, but I guess she had to be to survive the upheaval in her life

A quick or you missed it quip from the Doctor about missing out on the palm painting stuff when she was a man. Funny that the show went there

[cardigirl]

I liked it, but still find myself missing the stories of 10, 11, and 12’s tenure as the Doctor. This story was tragic, but the Doctor still feels gimmicky to me. Lots of winks at the audience with current culture thrown in, but no depth. 

I’m still waiting for some links to previous doctors . . . Or something.

Edited November 12, 2018 by cardigirl

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, elle said:

Watched without CC, can someone please tell me where Prem was when he first saw the "demons"? Was it Guadalcanal?

I think he said Singapore

[edhopper]

He said he fought in Siam, Thailand today, to the man who shot him.

Edited November 12, 2018 by edhopper

[Unusual Suspect]

I quite liked the episode. Simple, emotional, effective. I liked Prem and young Umbreen a lot. I felt the emotional pull of the episode. Yet another villain-less episode, but I quite liked the reveal on the "demons".

Now, I'm off to read up on the Partition, because I don't know nearly enough about it.

[The Companion]

JW continues to do incredible work. Her nerdy sciencey scenes are amazing and she looked absolutely gutted at the gunshot. We have seen the Doctor have to stand by when a death was a fixed point and it is hard every time. This was no exception. 

It was a heavy episode. I am glad next week looks a bit lighter. That being said, I also thought it was a powerful one and beautifully shot. 

Graham continues to be fairly awesome with his "Doc" and his sarcasm about danger and his dad advice. Ryan still can't help pushing buttons. Yaz still feels a little underdeveloped but I like her interactions with her family. 

[Lantern7]

Anybody else think Jodi's Doctor is the one that took Shop? I dunno . . . she's fun and can go to either emotional extreme for drama (which is a good thing), but I can't think of if she has "a thing." well, maybe that top. I am amused that her new female body hasn't been a huge focus. Basically, in Eleven-speak: "I'm a woman now. Women are cool. I mean, they've always been cool, and I'm really seeing what they were talking about."

I thought the aliens were hybrid bat/spider creatures.

Good historical story. Makes things feel grounded, even with the aliens with the somewhat impressive teleport effect.

[phalange]

I like the twist that the aliens whom everyone assumed were evil demons were actually there for the people who died alone. The scene at the end of Prem's image joining with others who died unrecognized made me tear up. The cinematography in this one was gorgeous.

Umbreen and Prem's wedding ceremony was beautiful and so was the Doctor's speech about love and hope. It clearly meant a lot for Yaz to actually be a part of her grandmother's wedding. I do wonder if Yaz's grandmother recognizes her as someone who there that day, but I can understand if she doesn't since it's been so long. I felt for them all, knowing Prem's death was coming and not being able to stop it so as not to interfere with the timeline.

[alias1]

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

Airdate: 11.11.2018

Episode Synopsis: Yaz attempts to discover her grandmother's hidden history

Oh, this was good. I really enjoyed this one - can Vinay Patel write some more? I felt like all the pieces really slotted into place here. The writing was more mature. The characters worked. The story was elegant. I cried.

This says it all.  I loved this episode.  My favorite of the season so far.  The cinematography was gorgeous once again, the story pulled at my heartstrings, and the villains turned out not to be villains.  It was wonderful.  

[jcin617]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

I think he said Singapore

 

1 hour ago, edhopper said:

He said he fought in Siam, Thailand today, to the man who shot him.

He said both.   He said he first saw the demons in Singapore and he told that man on horseback he fought with him in Siam.

[elle]

34 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

He said both.   He said he first saw the demons in Singapore and he told that man on horseback he fought with him in Siam.

Thank you for clearing this up for me.  All I could hear was "canal", so I jumped to a wrong conclusion.  Didn't think the scenery fit. 

[SarahK]

13 minutes ago, elle said:

Thank you for clearing this up for me.  All I could hear was "canal", so I jumped to a wrong conclusion.  Didn't think the scenery fit. 

Kunal was the name of the older brother who died in the war. 

[Llywela]

4 hours ago, elle said:

Some of the best stories are the simplest.  I find myself wondering how the episode "The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve", a story about more senseless killing, more ordinary people whipped up into a mob, compares to this episode.

I've seen "The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve" - in reconstruction form, since only the audio now exists. Recons can be tough going at first, but get easier once you get into the swing of them. Not my favourite First Doctor adventure, but it certainly does stand out from the crowd - the first ever adventure with a solo companion, and the Doctor himself is absent for two out of four episodes, leaving Steven to carry the bulk of the story alone. Like this week's adventure, the focus of the story is on the fixed nature of history and whether or not it is ever right or indeed possible to interfere with the course of events. It is an excellent character story for Steven, who really does carry the whole thing and is allowed a powerful emotional reaction to his experiences, bringing his often thorny relationship with the Doctor to a head - god, their final confrontation is absolutely devastating. Peter Purves does a splendid job. Even just with the audio, I'm right there with him, feeling Steven's fear and doubt and anxiety and anger and grief. On the other hand, the last minute re-write to remove the Doctor's sub-plot (Hartnell was ill) structurally weakened the story, and on the whole it is kind of a dry, weighty costume drama, lacking the sparkle and polish of many previous historicals. Worth watching, though, for Steven's emotional journey, completely alone in this (to him) alien historical landscape, buffeted about by a sequence of events he can't understand, struggling at every turn to find the right thing to do, desperate to find some way to save the lives of the people he has befriended along the way - ultimately devastated to be forbidden to save even one (Donna Noble would have been right there with him on that one).

This week's story is easier to watch (and not just because of the recon) but I do have a soft spot for "The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve", just because it is such an important part of Steven's journey and that confrontation between him and the Doctor at the end is worth the price of entry alone.

[elle]

29 minutes ago, SarahK said:

Kunal was the name of the older brother who died in the war. 

See this is what happens when I don't watch with the CC on!

4 minutes ago, Llywela said:

This week's story is easier to watch (and not just because of the recon) but I do have a soft spot for "The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve", just because it is such an important part of Steven's journey and that confrontation between him and the Doctor at the end is worth the price of entry alone.

Thank you for the summary and your impressions of the episodes.  I really appreciate getting these insights into the classic Who era.

Getting a chance to rewatch the episode now.  I just love Graham, especially enjoyed his scene with Yaz.  For anyone else who can't sleep, next the BBCA has the first two episodes of this season, then, in their classic marathon fashion, skip to the fourth episode.

Edited November 12, 2018 by elle

[AnimeMania]

I thought it was interesting that the father didn't ready seem to be included in his mother-in-law's birthday celebration and spent the time reading the paper on the couch.

[Leia1021]

This is the first episode I've really liked this season.  Maybe because I was a big fan of "The Jewel in the Crown."  If anyone is interested in the Partition of India in 1947, check out this excellent British 14-part program.  They replay it occasionally on PBS, but I'm sure it must be available through streaming services also.

The characters are fictional, but the history is correct.  It explores India during the last days of the British Raj (rule) up until the Partition.  The characters are well-drawn and acted, the cinematography is breath-taking and the depiction of the events really bring history alive.  I knew nothing about the Partition until I watched this series, read the books it was based on (The Raj Quartet, by Paul Scott) and then did further study because it was so fascinating.

For me, this was the best British program I've ever had the pleasure to watch, and as a devoted PBS and BBCA watcher, I've seen a lot. (Plus it had the young Charles Dance and Art Malik - swoon). :-)

[Writing Wrongs]

Between this and Supergirl, with political stuff being shoved down my throat. I'll be glad when my fun fantasy shows become fun again.

[darkestboy]

It's an odd episode for me. I appreciate the show looking at a piece of history not as often explored in media and it was nice to get a non Chibnall written episode as well but it just didn't really land for me.

The aliens have been absolutely abysmal this series and I'm getting bored of aliens looking sinister but not actually doing anything. This episode like Rosa might have worked better without the aliens this week.

It was nice to see Yasmin get more focus and I liked her scenes with her family, both in the past and present day scenes and watching Prem getting killed by his own brother was pretty brutal as well.

Some good characters bits with the Doctor and Graham this week. I'm convinced the latter is not making it out of the series alive though. Ryan could've sat this one out as he didn't really do much tbh, 7/10

[benteen]

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

I've seen "The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve" - in reconstruction form, since only the audio now exists. Recons can be tough going at first, but get easier once you get into the swing of them. Not my favourite First Doctor adventure, but it certainly does stand out from the crowd - the first ever adventure with a solo companion, and the Doctor himself is absent for two out of four episodes, leaving Steven to carry the bulk of the story alone. Like this week's adventure, the focus of the story is on the fixed nature of history and whether or not it is ever right or indeed possible to interfere with the course of events. It is an excellent character story for Steven, who really does carry the whole thing and is allowed a powerful emotional reaction to his experiences, bringing his often thorny relationship with the Doctor to a head - god, their final confrontation is absolutely devastating. Peter Purves does a splendid job. Even just with the audio, I'm right there with him, feeling Steven's fear and doubt and anxiety and anger and grief. On the other hand, the last minute re-write to remove the Doctor's sub-plot (Hartnell was ill) structurally weakened the story, and on the whole it is kind of a dry, weighty costume drama, lacking the sparkle and polish of many previous historicals. Worth watching, though, for Steven's emotional journey, completely alone in this (to him) alien historical landscape, buffeted about by a sequence of events he can't understand, struggling at every turn to find the right thing to do, desperate to find some way to save the lives of the people he has befriended along the way - ultimately devastated to be forbidden to save even one (Donna Noble would have been right there with him on that one).

This week's story is easier to watch (and not just because of the recon) but I do have a soft spot for "The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve", just because it is such an important part of Steven's journey and that confrontation between him and the Doctor at the end is worth the price of entry alone.

Definitely a great summary of this episode.  I admit, I've only listened to the very end of it and would also like to add that the speech that Hartnell gives at the end after Steven leaves might be his best performance of the show.  While The Doctor knows he can't interfere with history, it's beginning to take a toll on him.  He mentions his former companions Barbara and Ian (once again getting his last name wrong) and even Susan.  He also briefly wonders if he should return home to Gallifrey (though Gallifrey would still not be named for many years to come).  It's definitely worth listening to the end of this story.

[ae2]

2 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Between this and Supergirl, with political stuff being shoved down my throat. I'll be glad when my fun fantasy shows become fun again.

I think we're in for a long wait, unfortunately. 

[libgirl2]

I enjoyed that episode much more than the past ones. It kept my interest and I really liked Yaz in it. 

[Chaos Theory]

I don’t understand what people mean by fun fantasy show?  Do they mean a show with no real meaning to it?  An empty show That says nothing and does nothing?  What show were you watching?  Then again people have a lower tolerance these days for knowledge in their tv.  Learn stuff and you feel cheated. 

Its not like Doctor Who  a time travel show has ever....gone back in time before and met people in history.  It is just slightly more serious about it now.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Eulipian 5k]

Great episode. I like that Yaz finally said "If I can travel in time why not go back and see my family history?" Rose and Bill got similar insights into their parents. We saw the young Umdeen, the present day Nana, and get to imagine all that it took to make one into the other. They really balanced the personal tragedy against a massive social upheaval and did not get too "Romeo and Juliet" with Umdeen and Prem. And I like that Nana got to keep her own secrets. Also, Graham is really vital  as an older experienced earthling teaching others about life vs the Doctor, a really, really old extra-terrestial, who can't advise much on human interpersonal relations.

[Dobian]

It was good for another Quantum Leap episode.  History made personal.  Very sad story, but you got to know more about Yaz, plus a good history lesson.  Nice twist with the aliens.  A very "human" story.  Based on the timeline, Yaz' mom must have been born by the 50s sometime (not sure when the grandmother met her future husband though) so she was pretty old when she had Yaz, who must have been born in the early 90s.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Dobian

[Mabinogia]

Watching the Doc, Yaz and the boys watching/taking part in the wedding knowing that the groom was going to die that day was heart wrenching. Especially Yaz who was torn between wanting her noni to be happy and wanting to be born.

This made me interested in the Partition. I'd never really known anything about it, but seeing how it affected an individual family really makes it more than just a piece of history. 

Loved the aliens. How the decimation of their planet while they were off killing made them rethink their life's work and changed them from a killing species to a mourning species. Of all the aliens we've seen this season, these are the ones I'd like to see again, though I'm not sure there would be much more to tell with them. Unless they travel to their planet during it's destruction. 

I agree with those saying this was beautifully filmed. The scenic scenes were stunning. 

I love the interactions between the different companions. This time we got a really nice Graham and Yaz scene. There was some great humor in with all the dread (it was obvious the moment Yaz said Prem wasn't her grandad, that he wasn't going to make it, so that was in my mind the whole ep). 

This one reminded me of one of my all time favorites, Fires of Pompeii, in that it was inevitable that the big disastrous event can't be changed, but can the Doctor do something small? Save one family? Well, in Fires he could. In Punjab she could not. It has me wondering what must have changed by him saving that family. Did the son and/or daughter go on to have children? Did those children or their children or theirs do anything significant in the world? What if the Doctor had chosen to save Prem and Yaz had never been born? How much would the world really have changed? 

I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I am LOVING these smaller, quieter stories they are telling this season. I am far more emotionally invested in smaller, intimate stories so I'm loving this season. 

[taanja]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don’t understand what people mean by fun fantasy show?  Do they mean a show with no real meaning to it?  An empty show That says nothing and does nothing?  What show were you watching?  Then again people have a lower tolerance these days for knowledge in their tv.  Learn stuff and you feel cheated. 

Its not like Doctor Who  a time travel show has ever....gone back in time before and met people in history.  It is just slightly more serious about it now.

Shhhh .......  their little bubble worlds are being pricked with harsh reality and truth.

[Writing Wrongs]

I have the news for that.

[libgirl2]

24 minutes ago, Dobian said:

It was good for another Quantum Leap episode.  History made personal.  Very sad story, but you got to know more about Yaz, plus a good history lesson.  Nice twist with the aliens.  A very "human" story.  Based on the timeline, Yaz' mom must have been born by the 50s sometime (not sure when the grandmother met her future husband though) so she was pretty old when she had Yaz, who must have been born in the early 90s.

I was trying to figure out their ages. Yaz's mother doesn't look that old. 

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don’t understand what people mean by fun fantasy show?  Do they mean a show with no real meaning to it?  An empty show That says nothing and does nothing?  What show were you watching?  Then again people have a lower tolerance these days for knowledge in their tv.  Learn stuff and you feel cheated. 

Its not like Doctor Who  a time travel show has ever....gone back in time before and met people in history.  It is just slightly more serious about it now.

 

It's a great show, it's just not the Doctor Who show that I enjoyed since 2005.  Maybe it's more like the original Doctor Who, I don't know since I never watched those episodes. I miss the references to the past history of the Doctor, something I enjoyed from RTD, and Moffat, and that others did not. But I did.  I looked forward to a new Doctor and showrunner, to see what the show would become, but really, did not envision this.  And the previous versions of the Doctor didn't exactly shy away from truth-telling, but I found them to be more joyful in the telling. I miss the Daleks, the Cybermen, the whole universe that has been built.  I don't see Chibnall building on that, he's just creating new out of nothing, not really growing the franchise, but destroying it and in its place, he has a TARDIS but no real history of the TARDIS and a DOCTOR but no real history of that DOCTOR, and companions.  Now, these elements in and of themselves are wonderful. I love the characters. I like the stories. But they are not Doctor Who to me. 

I was worried about this with Class last season when it was on.  I didn't feel like it really connected to Doctor Who either. 

 

Just my opinion.  I hope by the end of the season I feel differently. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by cardigirl

[Sakura12]

If you are going to travel to the past you'll see what history was really like and it wasn't all fun and games. It's also showing that we have learned nothing from it. 

"I never did this when I was a man" that would've gone over well in 1940's India/Pakistan. 

I liked seeing the Aliens of the week change from what they used to be. I wonder if the Stenza destroyed their planet.

I've been enjoying the history lesson episodes more than the future ones this season. I didn't know much about the partition and am interested in reading more about it. 

[Chaos Theory]

Don’t get me wrong I loved Moffatt and is big wide universe storytelling.  But I am all for letting each showrunner and each new Doctor tell their own story.  That to me is what makes this series so much fun.  

[Sakura12]

I'm one that grew tired of Moffat's big world ending storytelling. He ruined the Weeping Angel's by bringing them back so often. I also got bored with the Daleks and the Cybermen. I'd rather meet other species. Now granted this season hasn't had any memorable aliens. But I'm still glad it's not the daleks and the cybermen all time. 

[DavidJSnyder]

29 minutes ago, Dobian said:

It was good for another Quantum Leap episode.  History made personal.  Very sad story, but you got to know more about Yaz, plus a good history lesson.  Nice twist with the aliens.  A very "human" story.  Based on the timeline, Yaz' mom must have been born by the 50s sometime (not sure when the grandmother met her future husband though) so she was pretty old when she had Yaz, who must have been born in the early 90s.

Did they say something about Yaz's mom birth that dated it to 50s that I don't remember? (Also did they say what birthday it was for the grandmother?)

Yaz and Ryan are the same age and Ryan is supposed to be 19, so they where born 1999ish  (Both significantly younger than the actors.)

Shobna Gulati who plays Yaz's mom was born in 1966.  If you assume the character is about the same age, that would make her 33ish when she had Yaz.   If Yaz's grandmother is 18 is 1947, that would make her 37ish when she had her Mom. 

[MissLucas]

That was my favorite episode so far - despite being so heart-wrenching. I learned about the Partition while reading Peter Hopkirk's 'In Quest for Kim' - fantastic book even if you're not into Kipling.

I was glad to see the Doctor welding again, seems to be her thing just as much as speeches about hope (second one in a row). I really enjoy Graham - he gives great advice when he's not being snarky. 

[benteen]

Simon Moore from Doctor Who News gave the episode a very positive review but highlighted what has become one of my major pet peeves this season...

Quote

Disappointingly however, as with so many stories penned during the ‘Nu Who’ era, this story’s telling does suffer with an over-abundance of the Gallifreyan’s sonic screwdriver. Whether used to track down this episode’s formidably-fanged alien interlopers, enable the Doctor to provide the viewer with all the information they could possibly ever want regarding the creatures’ craft within seconds, or simply helping her instantly rewire several conveniently-placed teleportation devices located throughout the nearby woodland, Whittaker’s repeated use of the audible probe makes one worryingly wonder just how the titular character has ever survived without it.

I HATED the sonic shades that The Doctor used last season but going overboard on the sonic screwdriver isn't making things better on that front.

Edited November 12, 2018 by benteen

[libgirl2]

36 minutes ago, benteen said:

Simon Moore from Doctor Who News gave the episode a very positive review but highlighted what has become one of my major pet peeves this season...

I HATED the sonic shades that The Doctor used last season but going overboard on the sonic screwdriver isn't making things better on that front.

 

It has been used too often in the last few years. The sonic is figuring everything out, not the Doctor. I was fine when it would open doors etc.... but enough with it already. 

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

It's a great show, it's just not the Doctor Who show that I enjoyed since 2005.  Maybe it's more like the original Doctor Who, I don't know since I never watched those episodes. I miss the references to the past history of the Doctor, something I enjoyed from RTD, and Moffat, and that others did not. But I did.  I looked forward to a new Doctor and showrunner, to see what the show would become, but really, did not envision this.  And the previous versions of the Doctor didn't exactly shy away from truth-telling, but I found them to be more joyful in the telling. I miss the Daleks, the Cybermen, the whole universe that has been built.  I don't see Chibnall building on that, he's just creating new out of nothing, not really growing the franchise, but destroying it and in its place, he has a TARDIS but no real history of the TARDIS and a DOCTOR but no real history of that DOCTOR, and companions.  Now, these elements in and of themselves are wonderful. I love the characters. I like the stories. But they are not Doctor Who to me. 

I was worried about this with Class last season when it was on.  I didn't feel like it really connected to Doctor Who either. 

 

Just my opinion.  I hope by the end of the season I feel differently. 

 

I have been watching the show since the early 80s and watching older episodes  for years. My favorites of the older ear were Troughton and Pertwee. I have to say I enjoyed Matt Smith. There is something missing this season. While I liked last night's episode and I think Jodie had a few Doctor moments.....   I still dont' feel like I'm watching the show I have passionately loved for most of my life. It doesn't quite feel that show either. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by libgirl2

[ElleryAnne]

I liked this episode.  Probably my second favorite of the season,  behind The Ghost Monument.  Loved the characters, the visuals (including that beautiful wedding outfit) and the relationships.  

I thought it was historical without being overly political (also true of most of the DW eps that travel to past events), but I respect that not everyone is going to agree with that.  To each his own, and I don't get the need for snotty intolerance in response.  Treading into real-world events can sometimes take a viewer out of the story aspect, if it's not done right.  It's okay to want DW to be an escape from real-world issues, not a reminder of them.   I thought this episode was done pretty well in that regard, but I still found myself wondering if anyone in 1947 was going to comment on what the time-travelers were wearing, so maybe not. IDK.  Maybe it was even addressed, and I didn't catch it because the music drowned out the voices.  (I'm really hating the music this season in general, other than the opening theme.)  And the math on Nani's age... so, okay, I guess a couple of different things took me out of the story-telling in the ep.  

I have to agree that there's something about this season that's just lacking in the fun department.  It's more than halfway through the season, and it seems that, while Thirteen is great (I love her and I like all three companions), the episodes have been missing something.  Again this week, there's death and sadness and trouble and the Doctor can't do much about it for reasons.  I knew Prem was doomed from the start, so I couldn't even root for the Doctor to do much more than maintain a status quo.  So, three cheers for... not messing up the timeline?  

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I don't see Chibnall building on that, he's just creating new out of nothing, not really growing the franchise, but destroying it

He's actually returning the show to it's roots. He's not destroying the franchise. He's paying far more respect to it's history than Moffatt, who basically rewrote the Doctor's entire history to make Clara special, ever did. This isn't the comic book version of Who we've been getting, but one with more depth in it's simplicity than all the grand epic universe threatening aliens and most special companions ever to exist until the next one who is even more special than the last but not as special as Clara, because no one will ever be as special as Clara. Honestly, if Moffatt didn't ruin this franchise I don't think it's humanly possible.

25 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

It has been used too often in the last few years. The sonic is figuring everything out, not the Doctor. I was fine when it would open doors etc.... but enough with it already. 

This I do agree with. At least Thirteens has lost power a couple times now. lol Maybe she'll stop relying on it so heavily since it seems kind of unreliable. I will admit, though, I kind of love the way she uses it. I cracked up back in the Rosa Parks ep when she petulantly waved it at Not Daniel Grayson (prison guy) and he was all WTF did you just do? When she uses it like that I am fine with it. But there is a danger of using it to solve all problems that I don't really like. 

5 minutes ago, ElleryAnne said:

I have to agree that there's something about this season that's just lacking in the fun department.

This fascinates me, that there are several people who have said this, because I feel like this season has been a lot more fun than the past few. Even in more somber episodes like this, I see a lot of humor and fun in the show. 

[hnygrl]

I finally know how to put my feelings about this season/series into words:

 

It’s good.  Really good. 

 

But its’s not Doctor Who. 

 

I’m sorry, really sorry, but this is not Doctor Who. It’s a weekly Dramedy. like Castle. but with Time travel. 

 

Thr writers/new show runner changed it just a little too much trying to put their own original stamp on it. Oh it’s GOOD, really good. Interesting storylines. Memorable characters. 

(Shitty monsters)

But  it’s just not the same show anymore.  Chibnall went too far off the beaten path to the point  it’s not even the same show. 

Put on season 9, season 4, and you see the continuity. It’s the same show. But season 11?  You wonder what happened. Were those other seasons from like  20 years ago or something? It’s that different. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by hnygrl

[hnygrl]

52 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

He's actually returning the show to it's roots. He's not destroying the franchise. He's paying far more respect to it's history than Moffatt, who basically rewrote the Doctor's entire history to make Clara special, ever did. This isn't the comic book version of Who we've been getting, but one with more depth in it's simplicity than all the grand epic universe threatening aliens and most special companions ever to exist until the next one who is even more special than the last but not as special as Clara, because no one will ever be as special as Clara. Honestly, if Moffatt didn't ruin this franchise I don't think it's humanly possible.

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

Hate to say it but, the roots got canceled. We need to remember that. People got tired of the same old same old and quit watching. And the show died. Not something to be emulating.